Overcoming the Fear of Judgement

[Shabby]

The fear of judgment can hold us back from growing and becoming the best we can be. It seem to be as if we are fearing someone else's Judgement about ourselves, but when we look deep within we find it is our own Judgment that is holding us back.

I thought it would be interesting to look into the reasons we judge ourselves and others and maybe looking into different ways to over come Judgement.

I will start off. I used to fear being crazy. This manifested in a letter I received that I needed a psychological examination, which was sent out as a joke without them knowing that this was actually what I feared the most. It was a wake up call for me. While it first scared me when I thought about being in a rubber room all by myself...... I saw that it could be quit comfortable. I would not have to clean the house, worry about bills, cook or do any chores and the best....I could pray and meditate all day long.

But since this was revealed as a joke (Ha, ha) I had the chance to really look at why I feared it so much. I saw that I wanted to be normal, feel accepted without having to tell lies or hold back my thoughts and experiences. I came to an understanding within myself that it would benefit me most to just be myself. I have no secrets and my life is an open book....and I feel free to be who I am, what and when ever I am and change my mind, contradict myself and yes....be crazy : )

[Sarian]

.................................

[3dnow]

Judgment is cruel, judgment is harmful, judgment is stupid, but it happens to everybody it is normal...

Nothing replaces the pleasure of saying "I don't care about your judgment.."

3d

[Mountain-Goat]

For me, I found the best way to overcome the fear of judgement is to understand it.
Judgement:
1: The capacity to assess situations or circumstances shrewdly and to draw sound conclusions.
2: The cognitive process of reaching a decision or drawing conclusions.

In the light of this information, judging myself is not the problem.
The problem is having self condemning thoughts regarding my assessments of myself. My value of myself.

Also using insanity as the example because i thought for many years i was insane.
If i did something that i judged as insane, it's what i did(felt and thought about myself) with that information that decides if that judgement is a positive or negative experience.

If i love myself, and i conclude\judge a particular behavior is insane, I will take positive steps to correct this dysfunction in me.
If I do not love mysefl, if i harbour self condemning thoughts, if i do not value myself, if i have low or no self esteem,
if i am ashamed of my being and i conclude\judge a particular behavior is insane, i will simply add this information to the huge list i already have that makes me think and feel ashamed of myself.

Judging is a process of evalution, it is neutral, it is neither a good or bad thing to do.

Making a mistake.

I can either learn from the mistake and try again and get better.
That is i can judge myself as very intelligent to be able to do this and know i am not perfect and
also acknowledge that learning anything new, mistakes will be made,
or i can condemn myself that i am stupid and unskilled, that making a mistake proves i am big dummy that can't learn etc etc etc.

Judgement is evaluative information, what one does with this information depends on one's attitude toward oneself, love or condemnation.

A person falls over.

Not everyone, but there will be people who condemn the person for being clumsy, call them a doofus or idiot, blind, can't you see where you are going, etc etc.
And most likely the person who fell will be embarrassed, which is shame of self.
Not any love from anyone in that situation.

But what about when a baby falls, when they are just learning how to walk.
Nothing but love in that situation hey.
And i theorize (according to body language and facial expressions) the baby is not condemning itself for making mistakes.
The main reason, though i don't know what goes on in the mind and heart of a baby,
the main reason why a baby is smiling and full of enthusiam even after many mistakes...
no condemnation from the parent, just a whole lotta love.

So, in conclusion. Judgement not problem, not love oneself is problem.
When you love, you fix, when you not love, you condemn.
Don't fear self, love self.

[silent whisper]

overcoming the fear of judgement...accept, allow, feel it, let go...if that works for you.

[Mr Interesting]

Yup, self judgement is that thing that reminds us, after all the meditation and quietness we find within ourselves, when we go out into the world that we really do still need to do a lot of work.

I've started shouting and singing while I'm in the car... my little box of uniqueness out in the world, and I know it's an expression I need to make that over time I'll be the big idiot I really am with lots of others about.

I'm a closet comedian... a cross between the muppets and Tom Waits!

And all the world's a stage!!!

I'm thinking now also that my personality, that thing the world see's, both is and isn't me, as I transition, so it's becoming a skin to play with and I think that distance between essential self and world self helps us to give up the judgemment game.... seeing that our worldly self is not so much projected as controlled like a puppet for both our own and others amusement.

[Occultist]

Judgement is an actual good thing, If we see a bad kid maybe into drugs hanging around our children we tell our children to stay away. At least I do my Dad told me you lay down with dogs you get up with fleas.
As a woman I wouldn't walk down a dark alley way. I was in LA during the Rodney King riots broke out.
A mob of 5 people attacked my car trying to tip it over cause I am white skinned.
I seen them running towards the car seen them on the street I judged the situation and locked my doors.
Luckily national Guard was driving by got me out of the riot and basically saved me from least a beating with a baseball bat or worse. We need judgement to help us remain safe and keep our children safe. Judgement used in a positive way is helpful cause we aren't running blind.
Viciously judging someone cause of personal insecurity's or jealousy is wrong. But Judgment is not bad,
That's why we have a judicial system in place to protect us.
Thats my Opinion about it.

[midnightstar]

Having a reason to judge a group of people is one thing, but judging people without reason IMO is wrong.

[Gem]

The fear of judgment can hold us back from growing and becoming the best we can be. It seem to be as if we are fearing someone else's Judgement about ourselves, but when we look deep within we find it is our own Judgment that is holding us back.

What validates that theory? People can hurt eachother through judgements. that's observable.

I thought it would be interesting to look into the reasons we judge ourselves and others and maybe looking into different ways to over come Judgement.

I will start off. I used to fear being crazy. This manifested in a letter I received that I needed a psychological examination, which was sent out as a joke without them knowing that this was actually what I feared the most. It was a wake up call for me. While it first scared me when I thought about being in a rubber room all by myself...... I saw that it could be quit comfortable. I would not have to clean the house, worry about bills, cook or do any chores and the best....I could pray and meditate all day long.

And they'd probably force you to be medicated and make many other impositions.

But since this was revealed as a joke (Ha, ha) I had the chance to really look at why I feared it so much. I saw that I wanted to be normal, feel accepted without having to tell lies or hold back my thoughts and experiences. I came to an understanding within myself that it would benefit me most to just be myself. I have no secrets and my life is an open book....and I feel free to be who I am, what and when ever I am and change my mind, contradict myself and yes....be crazy : )

Well, some people are crazy, it's not a nice thing at all.

[Gregatha]

Yes fear of judgement can be a real bugger. It usually kicks in when we are very young, as a result from being emotionally hurt, by, being poorly judged.

If we get hurt bad enough for long enough, our subconscious-mind takes over to protect us. It does this by keeping us away from any situation where we might be judged...as a result of this protection our lives can become very limited.

I know i take a risk posting this,as it may be poorly judged...however if im to get over the fear of being judged i need to take chances. I think its about having the courage to get it wrong....:hug3:

[Gem]

Yes fear of judgement can be a real bugger. It usually kicks in when we are very young, as a result from being emotionally hurt, by, being poorly judged.

If we get hurt bad enough for long enough, our subconscious-mind takes over to protect us. It does this by keeping us away from any situation where we might be judged...as a result of this protection our lives can become very limited.

I know i take a risk posting this,as it may be poorly judged...however if im to get over the fear of being judged i need to take chances. I think its about having the courage to get it wrong....:hug3:

I think it makes sense. It acknowledges an accurate observation. I think to say it's only the judged judging themselves is a one sided view, because judgement does effect other people.

Look now as I write and you read. My words are made into meaning in your mind, so we aren't alone and responsible for ourselves. Ultimately we are responsible for each other, and that is a far greater responsibility.

(smiles)

[Shabby]

I think it makes sense. It acknowledges an accurate observation. I think to say it's only the judged judging themselves is a one sided view, because judgement does effect other people.

Look now as I write and you read. My words are made into meaning in your mind, so we aren't alone and responsible for ourselves. Ultimately we are responsible for each other, and that is a far greater responsibility.

(smiles)

I beg to differ. You Gem can not create my experience nor uncreate it. You do not have such power...no one does. You could judge me, hate me, love me, be kind or obnoxious, be fair or unfair but what I take or leave from your actions is not up to you.....it is my choice....my will for me. I alone am the creator and responsible for my experience. I wish I could sometimes blame it on others, but the truth is I can't....or it would not be the truth.

[Gem]

I beg to differ. You Gem can not create my experience nor uncreate it. You do not have such power...no one does. You could judge me, hate me, love me, be kind or obnoxious, be fair or unfair but what I take or leave from your actions is not up to you.....it is my choice....my will for me. I alone am the creator and responsible for my experience. I wish I could sometimes blame it on others, but the truth is I can't....or it would not be the truth.

So what is happening now as you read these words? Surely my action here is effecting your experience there.

[Humm]

So what is happening now as you read these words? Surely my action here is effecting your experience there.
Agreed.

So how would you weigh the impact of communicating a positive experience versus a negative experience? Wouldn't that be an important consideration?

[Gem]

Agreed.

So how would you weigh the impact of communicating a positive experience versus a negative experience? Wouldn't that be an important consideration?

Yes it's important...

[Humm]

Yes it's important...
VASTLY important.

Scientific study after scientific study have PROVEN beyond the shadow of a doubt the benefit of positive experience over negative.

Given it's ubiquitous value and incontrovertable evidence, I can say wothout reservation promoting positive values should be held in the highest regard.

[Shabby]

So what is happening now as you read these words? Surely my action here is effecting your experience there.

Yes, thank you. It was a reminder that I alone am the creator of my experience.

[Gem]

VASTLY important.

Scientific study after scientific study have PROVEN beyond the shadow of a doubt the benefit of positive experience over negative.

Given it's ubiquitous value and incontrovertable evidence, I can say wothout reservation promoting positive values should be held in the highest regard.

Ideally yes... not always possible. Sometimes kindness can be cruel, but it's like you said before, 'discerning'.

[Humm]

Ideally yes... not always possible. Sometimes kindness can be cruel, but it's like you said before, 'discerning'.
Resistance is painful - and that would be the rub, if one is discerning with the goal of changing ingrained negative perceptions and values.

We do have a choice.

[Gem]

Yes, thank you. It was a reminder that I alone am the creator of my experience.

I thought I tyoed the words and your experience of them is caused by my typing. You can't experience these words unless I type them really.

[Shabby]

I have judged others in the past and what I have learned was that every time I judge someone or something as bad I was made to walk in their shoes. I experienced what they might have experienced in a very similar experience. What comes to my mind is that I used to judge women that stayed with their abusive partner. Until I was in such a relationship and learned of the fear that such a relationship can have on one, did I truly know what it felt like and why "they stay". I did not feel judged by others at least that was not my experience but I experienced the same thing I had judged others of.

[Humm]

I thought I typed the words and your experience of them is caused by my typing. You can't experience these words unless I type them really.
No one is arguing that.

It does not change self. Only we can do that.

[Humm]

I have judged others in the past and what I have learned was that every time I judge someone or something as bad I was made to walk in their shoes. I experienced what they might have experienced in a very similar experience. What comes to my mind is that I used to judge women that stayed with their abusive partner. Until I was in such a relationship and learned of the fear that such a relationship can have on one, did I truly know what it felt like and why "they stay". I did not feel judged by others at least that was not my experience but I experienced the same thing I had judged others of.
That is a profound story and observation Shabby.

Thank you for sharing.

[Shabby]

I thought I tyoed the words and your experience of them is caused by my typing. You can't experience these words unless I type them really.

If you had not typed them...someone else would have. I create my experience...you are not the source, but as I said what I take away from what you type is my choice. I could have not read them, or seen your post as negative as even the most loving statement can be seen and interpreted by someone as something negative.

[Occultist]

Having a reason to judge a group of people is one thing, but judging people without reason IMO is wrong.
What is so bad about someone judging you? Even without reason I mean is your self esteem so low your afraid they will judge you in a harsh light?
I could careless if a person judges me and really careless there opinions about me. I am secure enough with my own self that I don't need nobody's approval. Everyone judges everyone else. Its how we pick our friends, Its staying away from creepy people. Its even part of a mothers intuition.
Keeps us safe at night when we lock our doors. I am judging that if a burglar wanted to break in having a big dog and a rifle might help the situation along. http://www.socialphobia.org/fact.html That website maybe can help some of you who suffer from social phobia. It is a actual phobia that can eventually ruin your life.

[Gem]

Resistance is painful - and that would be the rub, if one is discerning in the service of changing ingrained negative perceptions and values.

We do have a choice.

We live with choices and their consequences, and can only do our best.

There are complications... but no one really wants to look at the obstructions which do exist in man and society and appreciate the full implications of the actual situation as it presents itself.

Ideally we could just say 'choice' as though it's a magic word, but it doesn't work, and people don't really want to look at the issues surrounding that, because it's terribly unpleasant.

I guess that's all my projection etc and so on and the usual bedtime story.

[midnightstar]

What is so bad about someone judging you?


I won't normally say this but I have been judged pretty badly and bullied simply for being female so I've always right from being a child tried to keep away from others because I know I'm going to get judged by my looks and the fact I'm female - I've been in that situation before in a few occasions, I've even been judged online simply from a bad photo (I don't photograph well) so I consider I've got good reason to try to avoid judgement where possible.

I don't mean to upset anyone I'm merely stating my experiences.

[Gem]

If you had not typed them...someone else would have. I create my experience...you are not the source, but as I said what I take away from what you type is my choice. I could have not read them, or seen your post as negative as even the most loving statement can be seen and interpreted by someone as something negative.

I don't have to be the sourse. I merely type the words then you experience them. You respond, so I then experience your response, now we're actually in communication because we are effecting eachother.

[Gem]

I won't normally say this but I have been judged pretty badly and bullied simply for being female so I've always right from being a child tried to keep away from others because I know I'm going to get judged by my looks and the fact I'm female - I've been in that situation before in a few occasions, I've even been judged online simply from a bad photo (I don't photograph well) so I consider I've got good reason to try to avoid judgement where possible.

I don't mean to upset anyone I'm merely stating my experiences.

Don't you worry none, you speak in real terms, and I understand it completely.

[Humm]

We live with choices and their consequences, and can only do our best.

There are complications... but no one really wants to look at the obstructions which do exist in man and society and appreciate the full implications of the actual situation as it presents itself.

Ideally we could just say 'choice' as though it's a magic word, but it doesn't work, and people don't really want to look at the issues surrounding that, because it's terribly unpleasant.

I guess that's all my projection etc and so on and the usual bedtime story.
What is positive and what is negative?

Positive, to me, is that which cultivates one's growth and higher expression. Conversely, 'negative' would be those things which work against that.

The most pernicious negativities are those which are self-reinforcing. One needs to grow out of them, but can't, because of the negativity.

We become powerless in the grip of our own power.

[Gem]

What is positive and what is negative?

Positive, to me, is that which cultivates one's growth and higher expression. Conversely, 'negative' would be those things which work against that.

The most pernicious negativities are those which are self-reinforcing. One needs to grow out of them, but can't, because of the negativity.

We become powerless in the grip of our own power.

It's a matter of not seeing the painful things as negative and the wonderful things as positive... these are only a matter of preference. No one wishes for pain and everyone wishes for pleasure, but both are there, we don't have a choice but to experience them both.

A man has a craving for pleasure which has blown out to greed and aversions to pain which surpass hatred, and these extremes are proportionate to the intensity of suffering.

This really needs to be examined by each individual, and a more moderate views need to be adopted so that a man retains a semblance of balanced disposition instead of this wildly extreme temprament.

[Humm]

It's a matter of not seeing the painful things as negative and the wonderful things as positive... these are only a matter of preference. No one wishes for pain and everyone wishes for pleasure, but both are there, we don't have a choice but to experience them both.
No one is arguing we do not experience positive or negative things - but it is demonstrable our preference is not arbitrary, that our preferences have a very definite impact on our selves and our lives. If some things cultivate your personal growth and higher expression and other things work against that, then the consequences of these things are divisible in a very real and demonstrable way.


A man has a craving for pleasure which has blown out to greed and aversions to pain which surpass hatred, and these extremes are proportionate to the intensity of suffering.
I suppose so, but I don't think it is just a matter of pain and pleasure. The adult learns to look beyond the immediate incidental pain or pleasure to the goal beyond. People do it every day, just as some give in to the immediate pain or pleasure, and suffering.

This really needs to be examined by each individual, and a more moderate views need to be adopted so that a man retains a semblance of balanced disposition instead of this wildly extreme temprament.
No one is arguing this - but on what rationality is it that one must do this? That is what I think must be examined, before one commits to extreme 'balancing'.

[Shabby]

What is so bad about someone judging you? Even without reason I mean is your self esteem so low your afraid they will judge you in a harsh light?
I could careless if a person judges me and really careless there opinions about me. I am secure enough with my own self that I don't need nobody's approval. Everyone judges everyone else. Its how we pick our friends, Its staying away from creepy people. Its even part of a mothers intuition.
Keeps us safe at night when we lock our doors. I am judging that if a burglar wanted to break in having a big dog and a rifle might help the situation along. http://www.socialphobia.org/fact.html That website maybe can help some of you who suffer from social phobia. It is a actual phobia that can eventually ruin your life.

I do care if others judge me...don't get me wrong. But if does not have to be my experience, meaning if it is not a part of my awareness I will not be effected by it. Or even better is if I am aware of it that it does not effect me....who I am ...who I know to be. My happiness does not depend on anyone else's doing unless I give others that power over me.

[Shabby]

We live with choices and their consequences, and can only do our best.

There are complications... but no one really wants to look at the obstructions which do exist in man and society and appreciate the full implications of the actual situation as it presents itself.

Ideally we could just say 'choice' as though it's a magic word, but it doesn't work, and people don't really want to look at the issues surrounding that, because it's terribly unpleasant.

I guess that's all my projection etc and so on and the usual bedtime story.

Point it out to me Gem. I am willing to take the full responsibility of it as I become aware of an issue or it is brought to my attention. What are others (me) not seeing that you see?

[Gem]

No one is arguing we do not experience positive or negative things - but it is demonstrable our preference is not arbitrary, that our preferences have a very definite impact on our selves and our lives. If some things cultivate your personal growth and higher expression and other things work against that, then the consequences of these things are divisible in a very real and demonstrable way.

I think it's demonstratable that giving alot of importance to preferance has a negative impact on a person's well being, because their reactivity intensifies proportionately to the importance they place on these preferences.

I suppose so, but I don't think it is just a matter of pain and pleasure. The adult learns to look beyond the immediate incidental pain or pleasure to the goal beyond. People do it every day, just as some give in to the immediate pain or pleasure, and suffering.

OK I think it seems reasonable.

No one is arguing this - but on what rationality is it that one must do this? That is what I think must be examined, before one commits to extreme 'balancing'.

It's obvious that greed and hatred are the extremes of aversion and desire, and these extremes cause a lot of problems. Man is a sensational entity, so is craving pleasurable senses and hating unpleasurable senses... the exterior events merely stimulate the senses.

When these senses are made important to me... I become very reactive and lose the balance of mind.

We see them come here and preach the highest of spiritual pleasure, and witness the extreme preference for the highest realms... but it's the same... chasing high experience isn't 'the way'... I have a quote from ol' 'murti to illustrate.

The desire for experience, the higher experience which is beyond and above the daily or the commonplace, is what keeps the well-spring empty. The craving for more experience, for visions, for higher perception, for some realization or other, makes the mind look outward, which is no different from its dependence on environment and people. The curious part of meditation is that an event is not made into an experience. It is there, like a new star in the heavens, without memory taking it over and holding it, without the habitual process of recognition and response in terms of like and dislike. JK

[Humm]

I think it's demonstratable that giving alot of importance to preferance has a negative impact on a person's well being, because their reactivity intensifies proportionately to the importance they place on these preferences.
I'm not arguing one should concentrate solely on one's own 'preferences'. Above I stated that many scientific studies confirm my position - scientific study is never considered verified if it is from a single source.

It is an interactive universe, and man is a social animal. Though our own perceptions and preferences are the center of our universe, it is demonstrable, as I believe you are stating, that focusing on one's own perception to the exclusion of everything else can be the cause of great distress. At the same time, focusing on all else to the total exclusion of oneself is also an error. BUT that's not to say a person should dogmatically strive to 'balance' these perceptions at all times - I firmly believe there is a time for each perspective, depending on a particular need and situation. One must move forward in discerning awareness at all times for the most appropriate action towards his goal, and this will include at various times varying amounts of each perspective, depending.


It's obvious that greed and hatred are the extremes of aversion and desire, and these extremes cause a lot of problems. Man is a sensational entity, so is craving pleasurable senses and hating unpleasurable senses... the exterior events merely stimulate the senses.

When these senses are made important to me... I become very reactive and lose the balance of mind.
Agreed - thus we must not just seek to focus on our senses, but do so only when and as appropriate.

We see them come here and preach the highest of spiritual pleasure, and witness the extreme preference for the highest realms... but it's the same... chasing high experience isn't 'the way'... I have a quote from ol' 'murti to illustrate.

The desire for experience, the higher experience which is beyond and above the daily or the commonplace, is what keeps the well-spring empty. The craving for more experience, for visions, for higher perception, for some realization or other, makes the mind look outward, which is no different from its dependence on environment and people. The curious part of meditation is that an event is not made into an experience. It is there, like a new star in the heavens, without memory taking it over and holding it, without the habitual process of recognition and response in terms of like and dislike.
What Krishnamurti is speaking about, IMO, is attachment to the experience, a very real risk.

Things can and do happen in meditation, and that is a great part of it's value, but to attach to and value meditation simply for that is no different from any other addiction, I agree.

BUT if one approaches it with the same openness and discerning awareness one learns in ordinary everyday mindfulness then one is not doing that.

Meditation DOES have value, for the discipline, the calming, the centering, AND the experiences. To arbitrarily lock out any aspect of it, simply because people may like it, is to step into dogmatism, IMO.

[Silver]

..but the degree to which they 'like' it, may turn their experience into something that has turned the corner and become an (perhaps?) unhealthy obsession..

[Gem]

Point it out to me Gem. I am willing to take the full responsibility of it as I become aware of an issue or it is brought to my attention. What are others (me) not seeing that you see?

They have much aversion to it, so avert their eyes to comforting things so as to avoid confronting the issue. Man does this as an individual (for good reason too) and also does it as a global society.

You can't even acknowledge our communicative effect on eachother, and cling to your ideal that your experience isn't effected by me, but every word I write is acknowledged by you, and you have some response to it.

We all effect one another, this is recognition that we are one and many, and that is the begining of taking responsibilty.

[Humm]

..but the degree to which they 'like' it, may turn their experience into something that has turned the corner and become an (perhaps?) unhealthy obsession..
Yes, always a risk.

It seems almost set up so that every 'step up' must be consciously chosen. It seems there are always two carrots hanging, and we must choose which one to grab for - sensual, or spiritual.

I don't see anything wrong with the former, myself - it just means we choose to stay where we are. :D

[Silver]

Yes, always a risk.

It seems almost set up so every that every 'step up' must be consciously chosen. It seems there are always two carrots hanging, and we must choose which one to grab for - sensual, or spiritual.

..can't the 'spiritual carrot' be just as much an obsession, though? :redface: :D

[Gem]

I'm not arguing one should concentrate solely on one's own 'preferences'. Above I stated that many scientific studies confirm my position - scientific study is never considered verified if it is from a single source.

It is an interactive universe, and man is a social animal. Though our own perceptions and preferences are the center of our universe, it is demonstrable, as I believe you are stating, that focusing on one's own perception to the exclusion of everything else can be the cause of great distress. At the same time, focusing on all else to the total exclusion of oneself is also an error. BUT that's not to say a person should dogmatically strive to 'balance' these perceptions at all times - I firmly believe there is a time for each perspective, depending on a particular need and situation. One must move forward in discerning awareness at all times for the most appropriate action towards his goal, and this will include at various times varying amounts of each perspective, depending.



Agreed - thus we must not just seek to focus on our senses, but do so only when and as appropriate.


What Krishnamurti is speaking about, IMO, is attachment to the experience, a very real risk.

Things can and do happen in meditation, and that is a great part of it's value, but to attach to and value meditation simply for that is no different from any other addiction, I agree.

BUT if one approaches it with the same openness and discerning awareness one learns in ordinary everyday mindfulness then one is not doing that.

Meditation DOES have value, for the discipline, the calming, the centering, AND the experiences. To arbitrarily lock out any aspect of it, simply because people may like it, is to step into dogmatism, IMO.

Yeah... I'm not forsaking pleasure, just the insane desire for it, and also consider any unpleasantry equal, don't hate it... just see it all passing while it does.

[Humm]

..can't the 'spiritual carrot' be just as much an obsession, though? :redface: :D
No, and I will tell you why.

It is the 'discerning awareness' issue. To choose 'spiritual' is to choose 'consciousness'. All expansions of consciousness require a decision made in discerning awareness - it must be discerned, and the appropriate choice made, the appropriate action taken. Obsession, or addiction, is the repetition of a behavior - the acting out of an attachment - a dead end.

For the truly spiritual, there is no repetition, only continual change in surrender.

[Humm]

Yeah... I'm not forsaking pleasure, just the insane desire for it, and also consider any unpleasantry equal, don't hate it... just see it all passing while it does.
Very wise. :smile:

[Silver]

No, and I will tell you why.

It is the 'discerning awareness' issue. To choose 'spiritual' is to choose 'consciousness'. All expansions of consciousness require a decision made in discerning awareness - it must be discerned, and the appropriate choice made, the appropriate action taken. Obsession, or addiction, is the repetition of a behavior - the acting out of an attachment - a dead end.

For the truly spiritual, there is no repetition, only continual change in surrender.

I'm not 100% agreeing here ~ I think it's maybe a little more than just the label of what may be 'spiritual' ~ I'm thinking that this 'discerning awareness' is something you are thinking of as synonymous with spiritual ~ but I think that's not quite right..?

[Humm]

I'm not 100% agreeing here ~ I think it's maybe a little more than just the label of what may be 'spiritual' ~ I'm thinking that this 'discerning awareness' is something you are thinking of as synonymous with spiritual ~ but I think that's not quite right..?
That is valid.

'Spiritual' to me is a perspective, and not the only one. There are plenty of great humanitarians who did not consider themselves 'spiritual' in any way. It is a very direct way, but not the only way.

That said, I do have very definite views about what the greatest good is and one's highest expression are - but that's just me.

[Shabby]

They have much aversion to it, so avert their eyes to comforting things so as to avoid confronting the issue. Man does this as an individual (for good reason too) and also does it as a global society.

You can't even acknowledge our communicative effect on eachother, and cling to your ideal that your experience isn't effected by me, but every word I write is acknowledged by you, and you have some response to it.

We all effect one another, this is recognition that we are one and many, and that is the begining of taking responsibilty.

Me eyes see and my mind understands what you are writing but I am not effected or only to the degree I accept to be effected. I mean that I have to allow you to affect me in order for your words or actions to take me from my peace. I am talking about experience not the physical appearance of a communication taking place. I can talk and write and share and learn, receive and give without it changing my experience....what ever that may be.

[Bluegreen]

The fear of judgment can hold us back from growing and becoming the best we can be. It seem to be as if we are fearing someone else's Judgement about ourselves, but when we look deep within we find it is our own Judgment that is holding us back.

I thought it would be interesting to look into the reasons we judge ourselves and others and maybe looking into different ways to over come Judgement.

I will start off. I used to fear being crazy. This manifested in a letter I received that I needed a psychological examination, which was sent out as a joke without them knowing that this was actually what I feared the most. It was a wake up call for me. While it first scared me when I thought about being in a rubber room all by myself...... I saw that it could be quit comfortable. I would not have to clean the house, worry about bills, cook or do any chores and the best....I could pray and meditate all day long.

But since this was revealed as a joke (Ha, ha) I had the chance to really look at why I feared it so much. I saw that I wanted to be normal, feel accepted without having to tell lies or hold back my thoughts and experiences. I came to an understanding within myself that it would benefit me most to just be myself. I have no secrets and my life is an open book....and I feel free to be who I am, what and when ever I am and change my mind, contradict myself and yes....be crazy : )

First of all, without judgement we cannot live this physical life because it is all about choices (and other things). Each time you are faced with a choice you judge which is the best choice.

Secondly, there is judgement of people. So long as it is constructive it should not be a problem. If you are secure in yourself, that is if you know your good traits and your bad, judgement should not be a problem at all. If it is correct, you will probably try to do something about it. If it is not correct, you should be able to just forget about it.

Judgement cannot but be based on our experiences and the resultant moral code. So the kind of person passing judgement is also an important factor influencing our reaction.

Judgement is not another word for rejection.

[Shabby]

First of all, without judgement we cannot live this physical life because it is all about choices (and other things). Each time you are faced with a choice you judge which is the best choice.

Secondly, there is judgement of people. So long as it is constructive it should not be a problem. If you are secure in yourself, that is if you know your good traits and your bad, judgement should not be a problem at all. If it is correct, you will probably try to do something about it. If it is not correct, you should be able to just forget about it.

Judgement cannot but be based on our experiences and the resultant moral code. So the kind of person passing judgement is also an important factor influencing our reaction.

Judgement is not another word for rejection.

I do not believe that we can not exist without judgment in terms of "Good and Bad" to the appearance of things. We could see it as something that serves one and even from a higher perspective we can see perfection, but I agree that it is our choice to stand where ever we want to look from.

[Bluegreen]

I do not believe that we can not exist without judgment in terms of "Good and Bad" to the appearance of things. Does this mean you agree with the first sentence of my post?We could see it as something that serves one and even from a higher perspective we can see perfection, but I agree that it is our choice to stand where ever we want to look from.

We always have a choice.

[Shabby]

We always have a choice.

True...and that was the essence of this thread.

I can't say I agree or disagree with you in terms of your first sentence as I may be using a different word then you for the same thing so let me reword my first sentence. I don't feel that we need judgment according to good and bad in order to live in the physical realm.

[Occultist]

I won't normally say this but I have been judged pretty badly and bullied simply for being female so I've always right from being a child tried to keep away from others because I know I'm going to get judged by my looks and the fact I'm female - I've been in that situation before in a few occasions, I've even been judged online simply from a bad photo (I don't photograph well) so I consider I've got good reason to try to avoid judgement where possible.

I don't mean to upset anyone I'm merely stating my experiences.
I think you are a beautiful person inside I am a female also and was in the Entertainment industry in LA went down to like 98lbs trying to fit what casting directors thought they wanted. I am saying let them judge dont let it bother you toughen up your skin cause its going to happen no matter what.
Also look at it this way if you were being praised after being judged told what a remarkable woman you are what you still be against judgment?
Also I have big chest for my size I am 5'1 and I have a 28w and my bra is 36DD. So I have to wear blousey shirts because men tend to not only acknowledge my breast but talk to them without making eye contact with me. With the size of my chest if I wear a tight Tshirt and tight jeans I hear women calling me a tramp. Insecure people are always going to try to find a flaw with you. but just dont take it personal.

[midnightstar]

Also look at it this way if you were being praised after being judged told what a remarkable woman you are what you still be against judgment?


I'm not against praise but because of my experiences I tend not to believe praise :redface:

I'll bow out of this thread now and just observe :angel8:

[Bluegreen]

True...and that was the essence of this thread.

I can't say I agree or disagree with you in terms of your first sentence as I may be using a different word then you for the same thing so let me reword my first sentence. I don't feel that we need judgment according to good and bad in order to live in the physical realm.

Okay. You have a stomach ache but you would still love to have a glass of red wine. What does your judgement tell you? No matter how you call it, but to have that glass of wine would be bad judgement on your part, don't you think?
You can leave out the word 'bad' but does that make your judgement a good one?

[Shabby]

Okay. You have a stomach ache but you would still love to have a glass of red wine. What does your judgement tell you? No matter how you call it, but to have that glass of wine would be bad judgement on your part, don't you think?
You can leave out the word 'bad' but does that make your judgement a good one?

If I leave out the word bad or good is it still a judgment? If I left out the word Judgment would it still be good or bad?

Drinking a glass of wine even though you have a stomach ache is not "bad" or "good"..... it is whatever it is and your action will be what ever serves you. Let's say you do drink the glass of wine and it calmed down your stomach is it still bad? Or let's say you had a stomach ache and drank the wine thinking it will calm your stomach but you actually felt worse after drinking it. Your experience of that action may bring you to a new awareness...was it then really "bad"?

Let's say you give someone flowers but this person is allergic to those flowers...is it really "good"? When we judge according to the appearance of things we are simply stating our beliefs about them and these beliefs do not hold up to the light of Truth. There is no good and bad as these are two sides of one coin and can only be experienced if one dwells in duality. Beyond duality is perfection.

[Bluegreen]

Okay, Shabby, there is something in what you say.
However, from what I know I would say that drinking a glass of wine when you have a stomach ache is definitely not advisable. Feel free to try it out :D

[Shabby]

Okay, Shabby, there is something in what you say.
However, from what I know I would say that drinking a glass of wine when you have a stomach ache is definitely not advisable. Feel free to try it out :D

No ....I believe you : )

[Winepenny]

To err is human, to forgive divine, and everyone makes mistakes. Whether learning to ride a bike or riding out a storm, everyone gets bruised knees. That’s life. Goof-ups are inevitable. It’s called learning. Sometimes the mistakes we make have catastrophic results, we are hurt and so are others. Then, there are deliberate wrong-doings of every ilk. The long and the short of it is that we all have a lot to atone for, and maybe the great Akashic record – or wherever it is they keep the score – is so lop-sided that it’s nearly impossible to clean up the mess we’ve made.
Curiously, however, while we are totally responsible for our actions, pay-back time isn’t necessarily horrific. In fact it may well be a time of jubilance. Surprise, huh? It turns out that the only way we can learn is by our mistakes and the mistakes of others. Many successful business people will tell you they learned the ropes by doing just about everything wrong at one time or another. That is what survival is all about, and that is why everyone does the best they can, every time, all of the time in terms of their perceived situation, maturity and presumed resources. In this light, no one can be blamed for doing his best. Not really. What more is there? No amount of ranting or raving can extract more than that. That’s all there is. True, you can perhaps guide a person to a more productive point of view, but that is a measure of necessity and receptivity, not worthiness.
Even the innocent lamb steps all over the shepherd’s feet. We all do it, and not always unintentionally. No one remains innocent for long. Naiveté, foolishness, presumptuousness, immaturity, lack of wisdom and even outright stupidity are attendant to growing up. So you learn to duck by banging your head. Clowns do it all the time. Hopefully, you have learned to laugh at yourself a little too.

[Mr Interesting]

You go Winepenny, that was great (sorry everyone else but I'm kinda over long threads and have just glanced at this last page)

But I suppose what this is about is how do we do all the stupid things we're obviously going to do regardless (I know I am) and step out from under the great towers of blunderation that have fallen around our feet, shake off the dust of deniability, say "Oops" loud enough for all to hear...

Bow with grace and aplomb... and be on our merry way.

Fallibility helps.. allowing ourselves to make mistakes but in the best possible taste certainly allows one to tries one best but not have any more attachments to outcomes than is reasonably necessary to learn any lessons that may result from unforeseen peccadilloes.

All care, no responsibility is a saying given by builders to clients who want tricky stuff done but aren't keen on tricky recompense.

[Humm]

I think you are a beautiful person inside I am a female also and was in the Entertainment industry in LA went down to like 98lbs trying to fit what casting directors thought they wanted. I am saying let them judge dont let it bother you toughen up your skin cause its going to happen no matter what.
Also look at it this way if you were being praised after being judged told what a remarkable woman you are what you still be against judgment?
Also I have big chest for my size I am 5'1 and I have a 28w and my bra is 36DD. So I have to wear blousey shirts because men tend to not only acknowledge my breast but talk to them without making eye contact with me. With the size of my chest if I wear a tight Tshirt and tight jeans I hear women calling me a tramp. Insecure people are always going to try to find a flaw with you. but just dont take it personal.
I see the principle of your experiencing playing out here at SF all the time.

There are those who shine their spiritual light brightly, and others who perpetually work to put that down, calling it 'Look at me!' behavior, or even worse a malicious lie, as they believe no one can actually love that much.

Sad, really, as it is an overt statement of their own spiritual maturity.

[Silver]

Ah but the beauty or lack thereof of a particular 'light' is in the eye of the beholder. What some believe to be light or love may not be to someone else, in all reality. But let's not go there and say we did..

[Humm]

Ah but the beauty or lack thereof of a particular 'light' is in the eye of the beholder. What some believe to be light or love may not be to someone else, in all reality. But let's not go there and say we did..
But you did SG. Of course you know I always welcome further discussion. :smile:

Recently we had a thread in which we discussed the most universal spiritual symbol. Overwhelmingly, the answer was 'Light', as a metaphor for consciousness, awareness, or understanding.

You have your view, and that is fine, but for myself, and I see this constantly verified, Light is the same for everybody, but there are those who wish to avoid the Light, for whatever reason.

[Silver]

But you did SG. Of course you know I always welcome further discussion. :smile:

Recently we had a thread in which we discussed the most universal spiritual symbol. Overwhelmingly, the answer was 'Light', as a metaphor for consciousness, awareness, or understanding.

You have your view, and that is fine, but for myself, and I see this constantly verified, Light is the same for everybody, but there are those who wish to avoid the Light, for whatever reason.

You can take it literally if you wish. That's your prerogative. I'll go now and crawl back under my rock for a spell, rofl.
:tongue: :D

[Humm]

You can take it literally if you wish. That's your prerogative. I'll go now and crawl back under my rock for a spell, rofl.
:tongue: :D
Awww, no need for you to get out of the Light - you're one of the brightest stars at SF! :cool:

Good morning! :hug3:

[Silver]

Awww, no need for you to get out of the Light - you're one of the brightest stars at SF! :cool:

Good morning! :hug3:

See! It's gloomy down here in So. Cal. I bet it is up there, too.

But the light (?) or whatever shines in my heart ~ that massage yesterday sure didn't hurt! I think I have a new religion~*

[Humm]

Gloomy all over the world - but your sig emoticon warms my heart. :wink: :D

[Silver]

Gloomy all over the world - but your sig emoticon warms my heart. :wink: :D

I like my sig, too, ty. I be missin' my cookieman!:hug2:

[Humm]

I'm always here - but sometimes it may be hard to see through the spray of crumbs. :tongue: :wink: :D

[Silver]

I'm always here - but sometimes it may be hard to see through the spray of crumbs. :tongue: :wink: :D

Just make sure they're chocolate chip.

:coffee: :laughing4:

[Sarian]

I see the principle of your experiencing playing out here at SF all the time.

There are those who shine their spiritual light brightly, and others who perpetually work to put that down, calling it 'Look at me!' behavior, or even worse a malicious lie, as they believe no one can actually love that much.

Sad, really, as it is an overt statement of their own spiritual maturity.
I agree with what you said about Occultist and the rest of this post.

[Gem]

I see the principle of your experiencing playing out here at SF all the time.

There are those who shine their spiritual light brightly, and others who perpetually work to put that down, calling it 'Look at me!' behavior, or even worse a malicious lie, as they believe no one can actually love that much.

Sad, really, as it is an overt statement of their own spiritual maturity.

But look at your post... bla bla they love so much... then a dig at 'their own spiritual maturity'

That's how it works, and that's why it's obviously a 'look at me' parade.

You're the one who just did the put down...

[Silver]

But look at your post... bla bla they love so much... then a dig at 'their own spiritual maturity'

That's how it works, and that's why it's obviously a 'look at me' parade.

You're the one who just did the put down...


Oooh. He's right, y'know ~ tit for tat as they say, rofl...:D

Gem's light is like a laser ~ unnatural ~ yeah sometimes...:tongue:

[Humm]

But look at your post... bla bla they love so much... then a dig at 'their own spiritual maturity'

That's how it works, and that's why it's obviously a 'look at me' parade.

You're the one who just did the put down...
I am basing my valuation on the very real and demonstrable values of self-expression, self-responsibility and the innate value of the individual person as it relates to all. Light and Love exemplify these values. It does not mean we see no difference in the expressions and Beings of the individual, but that we can and do have a tool to discern a difference in greater or lesser expression and Being, including in the interactions of individuals, as demonstrated in the success or failure of their own greater or lesser expression and the concurrent expressions of others, and that we should do so in order to direct our own greater expressions even as it impacts others.

And you are basing your valuation on what? Your own vanity? The fact that you feel your arbitrary and self-indulgent value system is being judged as inferior to a demonstrably fairer and universally nurturing value system?

That's the difference.

[Gem]

I am basing my valuation on the very real and demonstrable values of self-expression, self-responsibility and the innate value of the individual person. Light and Love exemplify these values. It does not mean we see no difference in the expressions and Beings of the individual, but that we can and do have a tool to discern a difference in greater or lesser expression and Being, including in the interactions of individuals, as demonstrated in the success or failure of their own greater or lesser expression and the concurrent expressions of others, and that we should do so in order to direct our own greater expression even as it impacts others.

And you are basing your valuation on what? Your own vanity? The fact that you feel your arbitrary and self-indulgent value system is being judged as inferior to a fair and demonstrable value system?

That's the difference.

Sorry Humm but you just put down people in the same way as the parading lovers have a tendancy to do.

Why do you think it is so few people make a massive demonstration of their lovingness? Surely all these folks aren't the 'vanity, self indulgent, inferior, lesser, failure, lesser (again)' as you put it.

[Humm]

Sorry Humm but you just put down people in the same way as the parading lovers have a tendancy to do.

Why do you think it is so few people make a massive demonstration of their lovingness? Surely all these folks aren't the 'vanity, self indulgent, inferior, lesser, failure, lesser (again)' as you put it.
I don't know how to reply to that Gem - I really have no idea what you're saying, other than a denial of the demonstrable case I make. You don't seem to put much stock in demonstrable cases - only what you feel.

If you do not want to separate your valuations out of your own desires and feelings, you won't. There's not much else to be said - other than saying black is white and white is black doesn't make it so.

[Silver]

Gosh, Humm...no wonder people fear judgment.

[Humm]

Gosh, Humm...no wonder people fear judgment.
If there is no validity to what I say, what is to fear?

Think about that.

[Gem]

I don't know how to reply to that Gem - I really have no idea what you're saying, other than a denial of the demonstrable case I make. You don't seem to put much stock in demonstrable cases - only what you feel.

If you do not want to separate your valuations out of your own desires and feelings, you won't. There's not much else to be said - other than saying black is white and white is black doesn't make it so.

What I'm saying is you pack a lot of derision into your 'oh so loving' posts.

[Silver]

If there is no validity to what I say, what is to fear?

Think about that.
:smile: I mean 'fear' in like oh there he goes again (or she as the case may be, rofl).

I fear not! :angel8: or naught ~ or nut!:D

[BlueSky]

Hi SG................sure wish I could tell when you are on-line or not...............

Do you realize that you are "hidden" in that regard?

Just wondering.......James

[Sarian]

Hi SG................sure wish I could tell when you are on-line or not...............

Do you realize that you are "hidden" in that regard?

Just wondering.......James
Yes, she's got herself in hiding, but I think she's here much of the time.

[Silver]

Hi SG................sure wish I could tell when you are on-line or not...............

Do you realize that you are "hidden" in that regard?

Just wondering.......James

Why? Are you trying to hide from me, rofl!

I can change that. I guess i will~*
:D

[midnightstar]

How can you hide whether your online or not SG - I've always wondered that ....

[BlueSky]

Why? Are you trying to hide from me, rofl!

I can change that. I guess i will~*
:D


"Oh, there you are Peter!"

[Silver]

"Oh, there you are Peter!"

I just love that movie!

Bd, you go to the User CP, then go to options and there's a box you can check or if you want your online status to be hidden.
:hug3:

[BlueSky]

I just love that movie!

Bd, you go to the User CP, then go to options and there's a box you can check or if you want your online status to be hidden.
:hug3:

LOL Me too!

Thanks for making yourself seen................:smile:

Now I can quote from another movie........Avatar.............."I see you" :smile:

James

[Silver]

I gotta see that movie ~Avatar! I just learned my neighbor's son has a big collection.

[BlueSky]

I gotta see that movie ~Avatar! I just learned my neighbor's son has a big collection.

I have seen it no less than 4 times so far.........:smile:

You really gotta take up TV again.............there is a whole side to it that is awesome.:smile:

I just saw a movie (foreign film-subtitled) called "Incendies" that rocked my world.
Somewhat based on true events but really just a great movie.

(gotta go before I get accused of thread-robbing..lol)

[Humm]

What I'm saying is you pack a lot of derision into your 'oh so loving' posts.
You see it as derision, but I have articulated a carefully reasoned moral basis for the difference in our views.

Have you - or have you simply expressed your preference?

[Humm]

:smile: I mean 'fear' in like oh there he goes again (or she as the case may be, rofl).

I fear not! :angel8: or naught ~ or nut!:D
Fear is fear. :rolleyes:

[Humm]

I have seen it no less than 4 times so far.........:smile:

You really gotta take up TV again.............there is a whole side to it that is awesome.:smile:

I just saw a movie (foreign film-subtitled) called "Incendies" that rocked my world.
Somewhat based on true events but really just a great movie.

(gotta go before I get accused of thread-robbing..lol)
Thread robbing?? What a concept! :angel8:

I saw Avatar in 3D when it came out - Loved it! :icon_thumright:

[Silver]

Fear is fear. :rolleyes:

I can tell when you're mad at me.
You stop making sense!
:tongue: :confused2: :laughing4:

[Humm]

I can tell when you're mad at me.
You stop making sense!
:tongue: :confused2: :laughing4:
Oh! Okay - fear is not fear.

Better? :D :tongue:

[BlueSky]

It's like when our parents use to say "enough IS enough!".....lol

[Humm]

It's like when our parents use to say "enough IS enough!".....lol
Enough is NOT enough! :hug3:

[Silver]

Oh! Okay - fear is not fear.

Better? :D :tongue:

Yes of course.
:icon_flower:

[BlueSky]

Enough is NOT enough! :hug3:

Heck, we always knew that, which is why we were getting yelled at in the first place.............lol

[Humm]

Heck, we always knew that, which is why we were getting yelled at in the first place.............lol
Brother I hear you there! :tongue: :wink: :smile:

[Silver]

...are we anywhere near on topic?

[Humm]

...are we anywhere near on topic?
I tried that, and I got 'There he goes again'...

Damned if I do, damned if I don't.

[BlueSky]

...are we anywhere near on topic?

Yes..this what people do after they overcome the fear of judgement........they lighten up.:smile:

[Silver]

Yes..this what people do after they overcome the fear of judgement........they lighten up.:smile:

Ahh. Excellent!
:hug3:

[Humm]

Yes..this what people do after they overcome the fear of judgement........they lighten up.:smile:
Ha! Or 'Enlighten' up! :D

You da man! :angel8: :hug3: :cool:

[BlueSky]

Ha! Or 'Enlighten' up! :D

You da man! :angel8: :hug3: :cool:

Ha! That's 'heavy' man........:D

Maybe they just got the word wrong all these years!

It probably went something like this:

"Hey I can't see in the dark"
"We need light-in here"

"YES...we need to be enlightened to see in the dark"
"That's it! Let's write a book!"

[Humm]

Ha! That's 'heavy' man........:D

Maybe they just got the word wrong all these years!
Actually, 'Enlighten up' is one of the bumper stickers on my Jeep. On the other side is the ubiquitous 'Coexist', and in the center it says 'Don't believe everything you think'.

Heh heh heh... :D

[Humm]

...

"Hey I can't see in the dark"
"We need light-in here"

"YES...we need to be enlightened to see in the dark"
"That's it! Let's write a book!"
I see the Light - and I DEFINITELY do not want to write a book! :tongue:

[Silver]

I see the Light - and I DEFINITELY do not want to write a book! :tongue:
Oh, good. That's one less thing I have to pretend to read.....:redface: :tongue: :D

[Humm]

Oh, good. That's one less thing I have to pretend to read.....:redface: :tongue: :D
ROFL - Sister I hear you there! :redface: :hug:

[Silver]

Actually, 'Enlighten up' is one of the bumper stickers on my Jeep. On the other side is the ubiquitous 'Coexist', and in the center it says 'Don't believe everything you think'.

Heh heh heh... :D

Are those what's holding your vehicle together?

[BlueSky]

Oh, good. That's one less thing I have to pretend to read.....:redface: :tongue: :D


............**** :D

[Humm]

Are those what's holding your vehicle together?

Ya know, in a very profound way, you may be right .... or so I believe! :D

[BlueSky]

Actually, 'Enlighten up' is one of the bumper stickers on my Jeep. On the other side is the ubiquitous 'Coexist', and in the center it says 'Don't believe everything you think'.

Heh heh heh... :D

Cooincidently, I just seen my first "Coexist" bumper sticker the other day and I thought to myself now that would be one that I would like on my car.......:smile:

[Humm]

It's about time to replace them - but there ya go... :D

http://i168.photobucket.com/albums/u170/kiauma/BumperStickers.jpg

[Silver]

hey nice rustbu..I mean recreational vehicle you got there!

[BlueSky]

It's about time to replace them - but there ya go... :D

http://i168.photobucket.com/albums/u170/kiauma/BumperStickers.jpg

Only an engineer would put them on so neatly, equally spaced and centered....lol :D

[Humm]

LOL - it don't look like much, but it gets me where I want to go. :tongue:

[Sarian]

Cooincidently, I just seen my first "Coexist" bumper sticker the other day and I thought to myself now that would be one that I would like on my car.......:smile:
Ah, I saw many, as a city nearby that I enjoy, it seemed to be the statement of the year...or years...so one day I finally stumbled upon the elusive "Coexist" bumper sticker...my daughter and i were in statement mood...and I also got a "The Beginning is Near" bumper sticker she picked out as opposed to the doomsdayer's "The End is Near". We happily put them on my car as well as a freebie from "The Ithaca Hemp Company". Now I sort of feel foolish having it there but my daughter says "No, mama! Leave it on, it's FINE"..she thinks it's neat. I would rather have a small subdued one really as I don't like religions and the bickering. I think though, soon, I should just use the bumper stickers to hold my car together or hide the rust.:rolleyes: Oh, and I have an "Ithaca is Gorges" sticker as well.(supposed to say gorges because of the gorges lol)

[Sarian]

Humm, your vehicle would fit in nicely with all the others in the city above I mentioned and their bumper stickers.

[Humm]

"The Beginning is Near"

LOVE IT! :icon_thumright:

[Sarian]

"The Beginning is Near"

LOVE IT! :icon_thumright:
:wink: .......

[BlueSky]

Ah, I saw many, as a city nearby that I enjoy, it seemed to be the statement of the year...or years...so one day I finally stumbled upon the elusive "Coexist" bumper sticker...my daughter and i were in statement mood...and I also got a "The Beginning is Near" bumper sticker she picked out as opposed to the doomsdayer's "The End is Near". We happily put them on my car as well as a freebie from "The Ithaca Hemp Company". Now I sort of feel foolish having it there but my daughter says "No, mama! Leave it on, it's FINE"..she thinks it's neat. I would rather have a small subdued one really as I don't like religions and the bickering. I think though, soon, I should just use the bumper stickers to hold my car together or hide the rust.:rolleyes: Oh, and I have an "Ithaca is Gorges" sticker as well.(supposed to say gorges because of the gorges lol)

"The beginning is near"...........ha! never saw that one.........

I don't know what Ithaca is but I wish someone would buy me some hemp sandals for fathers day............I always ask and nobody gets them for me........lol
They really are cool! :smile:

[Silver]

Love the hemp one.
Ok this is fun ~ If I were to have one, it would say
Apocalypse...pretty soon...

[BlueSky]

Love the hemp one.
Ok this is fun ~ If I were to have one, it would say
Apocalypse...pretty soon...

That would be a "bummer" sticker....lol

[Silver]

I am a Capricorn, ruled by the dark planet of Saturn!
Eeeeeee~

[BlueSky]

I am a Capricorn, ruled by the dark planet of Saturn!
Eeeeeee~

Ha! I married a capricorn................pray for me...lol

[Silver]

Ha! I married a capricorn................pray for me...lol

You must choose wisely......uh oh!
:laughing6: :laughing4:

[BlueSky]

You must choose wisely......uh oh!
:laughing6: :laughing4:

It really is funny how so "capricorn" she is and how so "Pisces" I am........:smile:

I'd like to think we compliment each other but I'm not sure she would agree......:D

She has definately inadvertently helped me "ground" myself.

James

[Silver]

It really is funny how so "capricorn" she is and how so "Pisces" I am........:smile:

I'd like to think we compliment each other but I'm not sure she would agree......:D

She has definately inadvertently helped me "ground" myself.

James'

oh, btw I did get your bummer sticker ~ after a time, rofl...:redface:

Oh dear.

I believe Capricorns are an Earth sign...so what does that make you? A muddy fish!
:rolleyes: :D

[BlueSky]

'

oh, btw I did get your bummer sticker ~ after a time, rofl...:redface:

Oh dear.

I believe Capricorns are an Earth sign...so what does that make you? A muddy fish!
:rolleyes: :D

lol......just my fins....:smile:

[Mr Interesting]

You guys are still goin' at it and so it might be time to bring up the fact of americans treating life like a chatroom. Your all awake at the same time and get into this mode of pushing out these two minute spaced rejoinders like your having a game of tennis and it's so American.

Meanwhile on the other side of the world we try to fit in but can't really, because of the time difference, but what's being talked about, or supposed to be talked about, is meaningful to us and we want to be heard too... but our longer responses get thrown aside as the Americans play tennis... in the lecture theatre!

Americans, just because you can doesn't mean you should. Lift your game and realise the world is so much bigger than your own shoreline and timescales.

How can America overcome it's fear of judgement when it's too busy to realise it is even in need of judging... not that anyones judging of course, but does the fact no-one judges take away the need to be judged.

At fifty screen shots per second you don't have to answer this but please be reminded that the rest of the world has to troll through your pages of inanities.

[BlueSky]

You guys are still goin' at it and so it might be time to bring up the fact of americans treating life like a chatroom. Your all awake at the same time and get into this mode of pushing out these two minute spaced rejoinders like your having a game of tennis and it's so American.

Meanwhile on the other side of the world we try to fit in but can't really, because of the time difference, but what's being talked about, or supposed to be talked about, is meaningful to us and we want to be heard too... but our longer responses get thrown aside as the Americans play tennis... in the lecture theatre!

Americans, just because you can doesn't mean you should. Lift your game and realise the world is so much bigger than your own shoreline and timescales.

How can America overcome it's fear of judgement when it's too busy to realise it is even in need of judging... not that anyones judging of course, but does the fact no-one judges take away the need to be judged.

At fifty screen shots per second you don't have to answer this but please be reminded that the rest of the world has to troll through your pages of inanities.

You have to be kidding................................right?

Tennis anyone!:smile:

[Shabby]

You have to be kidding................................right?

Tennis anyone!:smile:

O.K. then......LOL

[Mr Interesting]

No, I was overcoming my fear of judgement.

I felt something and I reacted. I didn't really question whether what I was doing was right or wrong - I just did it.

[Shabby]

No, I was overcoming my fear of judgement.

I felt something and I reacted. I didn't really question whether what I was doing was right or wrong - I just did it.

LOL and how does that make you feel? : )

[Silver]

Yup, self judgement is that thing that reminds us, after all the meditation and quietness we find within ourselves, when we go out into the world that we really do still need to do a lot of work.

I've started shouting and singing while I'm in the car... my little box of uniqueness out in the world, and I know it's an expression I need to make that over time I'll be the big idiot I really am with lots of others about.

I'm a closet comedian... a cross between the muppets and Tom Waits!

And all the world's a stage!!!

I'm thinking now also that my personality, that thing the world see's, both is and isn't me, as I transition, so it's becoming a skin to play with and I think that distance between essential self and world self helps us to give up the judgemment game.... seeing that our worldly self is not so much projected as controlled like a puppet for both our own and others amusement.

...all that from a man who said this ^ ^ ^
{I sure hope he's playin' along...}
What we..I were trying to demonstrate is how freeing it is to not worry about being judged...yeah.

[Mr Interesting]

I don't know how I feel about it Shabby... I'm just feeling it.

It's gone already... now I'm sittin' here, at the veritable beginning of another new day and you guys are still at the end of yesterday...

I enjoy words and making them dance across a page, if I can, so the directions they choose to go aren't always about what I'm saying, as in realising my intentions, but can be about what the sense of the words, their shapes and relationships want to describe.

Am I then responsible? I could very well be but in a way that seeing them go off into the world to live the life they asked me to birth... I let them have that distinct life they required of me. My responsibility lies in bringing about that conception and being there within that birth to the best of my abilities to follow the instincts of word play as they fall out from my fingers... after that, in giving them the life they asked for, I look to the next unfolding.

So how do I feel about this one... already it's free of me and my feelings go forward to the next occurrence where my self -described mission as an artist can see another sketch worth doing.

[Mr Interesting]

Well found Silver!

It can be a little dark at times. I'm very much at the beck and call of the world I inhabit. I just read a very good book and saw two very good movies so I'm as much commenting on those as I am on myself as well as playing this out against, and with, what's arrived in front of me.

At the same time, underneath I'm wondering what my fear of judgement might be as I literally thrown myself in front of a steam train choosing to see whether, alike the movie, I might be pulled to safety at the last moment... Again I question the ability to act without fear in that as when descend into unthinking, and just doing, is our faith strong enough to have the unseen arm pull us from the possible wreckage that may ensue...

Overcoming the fear of being judged may often require simply doing that which is most in need of judging. (not quite as it appeared in my head)

[Silver]

Hi Mr. I ~ I miss the 'picture' threads/conversations about building decks, and other interesting manly stuff ~ and pink heart houses, etc. Fond memories.

[Mr Interesting]

It'll be coming back with a vengence Silver... building an'll. I was given a whole pile of building materials recently, both out of the blue and without ambition on my part, so I got that the universe has a plan for me even if I don't so much anymore.

I'm going back to school this year, enrolled in a ceramics, 2 year, full time course after an older friend, a Maori elder brought up, also out of the blue, that I'd have a heap of fun playing with clay, and after seeing a documentary of our own living version of Emerson, crossed with Thoreau and Whitman (I kid you not), who lives out in the bush building miniature railways up into the bush to get clay and then fires pots..., prior to the old girl shedding light. Well you gotta do what's obviously best for you even when it's a complete surprise to you!

So the ceramics is ticking many boxes I had forgotten needed ticking. It'll get the tax department off my back, which has already happened actually so it'll stop them jumpin' back on, I'll get a steady income for a coupla years which I miss, that given my very low expenditures, I'll be able to get well ahead of the game of surviving plus I'll be able to enter the system of arts as a bureaucracy from a position of willing participant as opposed to rebel insurgent... so it's really yet another single rock hitting about ten birds that has been thrown without me seeing it's need... good ol' universe, comes to the rescue when you were quite happy just sitting back and enjoying the desert Island you built.

So indeed the building has made itself required as well and I have vague notions as to why but that may be the end required to ensure the means progresses according to a plan I'm merely an onlooker of... but suffice to say, I'm kinda letting the notions of how slowly resolve themselves as there's quite a bit of bush needs hacking into shape to proceed even to the beginning. So I realise that "just start" is written on the flag of yonder hillock and, there for, still a ways off.

The bigger works require this kinda of letting all the stuff drop into place over time but I have the visions of what I have to achieve in my head and I'm pleased such advantage of choice is my default. I've done the practise runs and understand the nature of dwelling/dwellings in this country and for this land and now it's time to go into the potentials of such without the rigorous denial of possibility inherent in so much of modern building.

[Mr Interesting]

So I suppose what I may have been saying, now you, Silver, have appealed to my undoubted vanity and arrogance, is that a requirement of overcoming a fear of judgement may be a profound willingness to be judged.

A David and Goliath response.

That when we stand there resounding in the fear of our self denial with our boots trapped in the mire of our inconsistencies and tremble down to our pits as some resolve to be finally heard struggles to spin the weight of our chosen weapon.

We manage to hit the target and all anyone sees is the bravery they themselves wished they had.

[Gem]

You see it as derision, but I have articulated a carefully reasoned moral basis for the difference in our views.

Have you - or have you simply expressed your preference?

People are the way are and I don't give it a second thought, but I don't have to like them. I prefer some people to others and have my personal favorites, so I don't need to pretend I'm oh so loving to make a spiritual impression, and when I see your view of the lower, lesser and what have you, I see a fable which places yourself on a pedestal.

[Silver]

Wow. A lot (a lot) of growth (and fun) here today.

[Silver]

lol......just my fins....:smile:

I suppose as long as you don't track those muddy fins into the house!
:fish:

[Occultist]

I play out here because I am disabled, I have Kidney failure Doctor said I might die soon if I dont get a transplant cause he needs to remove both kidneys. I work on freelance for people now who need it or paranormal teams who need a fresh set of eyes. See Humm things arent what they seem to be. I am not after any praise just giving my opinions maybe help one more person before I cross over beyond the hedge or learn one more thing from you.
Thank you Silvergirl for your words of wisdom and knowledge you guys have taught me so much about myself. Just by learning about you all nice people.
Let people judge Silvergirl there going to anyway, you have a strong Mama bear protection spirit that radiates from you. But if some people do not judge they will simply never learn. <warm hugs to you all> including you Humm.

[Silver]

Thank you so much, Occultist ~ I love the words '...strong Mama bear protection spirit...' you used. Naturally, I hope upon hope that you're able to get whatever you need to continue on in this incarnation for a while longer.
:hug:

[silent whisper]

I don't know how I feel about it Shabby... I'm just feeling it.

It's gone already... now I'm sittin' here, at the veritable beginning of another new day and you guys are still at the end of yesterday...

I enjoy words and making them dance across a page, if I can, so the directions they choose to go aren't always about what I'm saying, as in realising my intentions, but can be about what the sense of the words, their shapes and relationships want to describe.

Am I then responsible? I could very well be but in a way that seeing them go off into the world to live the life they asked me to birth... I let them have that distinct life they required of me. My responsibility lies in bringing about that conception and being there within that birth to the best of my abilities to follow the instincts of word play as they fall out from my fingers... after that, in giving them the life they asked for, I look to the next unfolding.

So how do I feel about this one... already it's free of me and my feelings go forward to the next occurrence where my self -described mission as an artist can see another sketch worth doing.


This post was most refreshing....:smile:

[Humm]

People are the way are and I don't give it a second thought, but I don't have to like them. I prefer some people to others and have my personal favorites, so I don't need to pretend I'm oh so loving to make a spiritual impression, and when I see your view of the lower, lesser and what have you, I see a fable which places yourself on a pedestal.
Yes Gem, that's what you see.

You see everyone you disagree with as game players, insincere liars, and megalomaniacs.

It must make you feel very good to be so above us.

[Gem]

Yes Gem, that's what you see.

I liisted several derisive terms you aimed at people coupled with the elation of some others, and I've been subject to direct assertions of that sort... and remarkably, it's the 'Oh Love' ones who use that tact... except one who has me on ignore.

That is visiblle, so don't you insinuate I'm making it up.

[Humm]

...See Humm things arent what they seem to be. I am not after any praise just giving my opinions maybe help one more person before I cross over beyond the hedge or learn one more thing from you.
Thank you Silvergirl for your words of wisdom and knowledge you guys have taught me so much about myself. Just by learning about you all nice people.
Let people judge Silvergirl there going to anyway, you have a strong Mama bear protection spirit that radiates from you. But if some people do not judge they will simply never learn. <warm hugs to you all> including you Humm.
Umm... Thanks... But I feel I must have said something to you that warranted the above reply and for the life of me I don't know what it is... :icon_frown:

So sorry to hear of your condition. I will pray that you are able to get a transplant soon!

[silent whisper]

A refreshing space between two humble souls is always refreshing...even when its on the nose...(sorry I have a dead kangaroo near me in the bush..and truly it is on the nose)..not that the kangaroo has anything to do with this discussion...

[Gem]

A refreshing space between two humble souls is always refreshing...even when its on the nose...(sorry I have a dead kangaroo near me in the bush..and truly it is on the nose)..not that the kangaroo has anything to do with this discussion...

Oh yeah ... humility is what makes me so dam great.

[silent whisper]

Oh yeah ... humility is what makes me so dam great.


Its great you can honour your greatness...cos you are great.

[Humm]

I liisted several derisive terms you aimed at people coupled with the elation of some others, and I've been subject to direct assertions of that sort... and remarkably, it's the 'Oh Love' ones who use that tact... except one who has me on ignore.

That is visiblle, so don't you insinuate I'm making it up.
No, you listed several judgements I made and labeled them derisive - you never discussed or questioned the criteria I listed, you just arbitrarily labeled me.

You do not talk about why I say the things I say, though I do - nor do you talk about the things you say, other than how justified you are in saying them.

I can understand if you don't like my appraisal of your attitude one bit, but the fact is that it stinks - you have said that, time after time, but when it comes time to reevaluate it, you retreat back into self-justification mode.

I'm not trying to change you are psycho-analyze you, but I told you if you are going to continue to make the statements you make, then you can expect to have your statements examined.

And so it goes.

[silent whisper]

No, you listed several judgements I made and labeled them derisive - you never discussed or questioned the criteria I listed, you just arbitrarily labeled me.

You do not talk about why I say the things I say, though I do - nor do you talk about the things you say, other than how justified you are in saying them.

I can understand if you don't like my appraisal of your attitude one bit, but the fact is that it stinks - you have said that, time after time, but when it comes time to reevaluate it, you retreat back into self-justification mode.

I'm not trying to change you are psycho-analyze you, but I told you if you are going to continue to make the statements you make, then you can expect to have them examined.

And so it goes.


Huh humm....:confused:

[Gem]

No, you listed several judgements I made and labeled them derisive - you never discussed or questioned the criteria I listed, you just arbitrarily labeled me.

You do not talk about why I say the things I say, though I do - nor do you talk about the things you say, other than how justified you are in saying them.

I can understand if you don't like my appraisal of your attitude one bit, but the fact is that it stinks - you have said that, time after time, but when it comes time to reevaluate it, you retreat back into self-justification mode.

I'm not trying to change you are psycho-analyze you, but I told you if you are going to continue to make the statements you make, then you can expect to have them examined.

And so it goes.

You did use those terms in regard to people on SF, and also blew smoke up the butts of the grand poo bahs... no doubt at all these refered to Sf members.

Which class of these do you suppose yourself Humm?

Yes, the Mr Wonderful class, no one would put themselves in the lower lesser unevolved caste, now would they?

I know this to be, and you can't worm away from it by pretending it's my attitude...

[Humm]

You did use those terms in regard to people on SF, and also blew smoke up the butts of the grand poo bahs... no doubt at all these refered to Sf members.

Which class of these do you suppose yourself Humm?

Yes, the Mr Wonderful class, no one would put themselves in the lower lesser unevolved caste, now would they?

I know this to be, and you can't worm away from it by pretending it's my attitude...
Who is talking about better or lower Gem?

Do you feel posts like the above are helping you grow as a person? Do you feel it is helping you grow spiritually?

Just curious.

[Sarian]

Interlude time...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J2oEmPP5dTM

[Silver]

not enough...time for a quote:


You wanna get the truth out of me, get me hammered.


Ron White
:occasion14:

[Occultist]

Umm... Thanks... But I feel I must have said something to you that warranted the above reply and for the life of me I don't know what it is... :icon_frown:

So sorry to hear of your condition. I will pray that you are able to get a transplant soon!
If its meant to be its meant to be. If not I will be okay :hug3:

[silent whisper]

And a brave soul you are occultist...I feel your presence of courage coming through, that in itself is an inspiration for those facing such conditions on their journey in this realm. I too hold you in the space of receiving the transplant..very soon.

[Mr Interesting]

How about telling off time?

Nope, won't go so far as that but the exchange between Humm and Gem needs/wants some 'observation' from the rest of us, maybe?

You are both either overcoming the fear of judgement or overcome by a fear of judgement, but the weak link of the exchange is the use of judgements, so I judge.

Judgements don't end at simple statements for or against but can also be goading to attain a position, I'm sure you guys know this.

So what if someone else thinks we're idiots or doing things a way they don't think is profitable to us. It's most probably true, or at least half true, but again what matter is it?

What matter it is, from my perspective, is that it goes to the heart of what judgement really means and my idea is that judgements will occur, they are a natural part of being, but I think it helps immensely when the judge knows where they are coming from and the difference therein between a lower or higher self.

I got into trouble yesterday and got a tellin' off and the simple fact that my mind argued my innocence for so long afterwards, was in need of protecting it's stand, that I knew the message that came with the tellin' off was valld. I had to eat some humble pie.

Now that message to get my house in order may have been in the terms of a person judging me, which with my superior moral and ethical understanding I could argue my denials, but that doesn't mean that the judgement wasn't a good call in essence, at it's core essence was a deeper truth and so from the mouths of babes doesn't just mean... from the mouths of babes.

Now I have a very old friend, as in we've been friends for a long time, and we're in one of the troughs at the moment where we can't stand each other, sad to say they happen every few years, but we'll get over it 'cause we both kinda realise that our ability to be enemies is almost as required as our abilities to be compadres. We take completely different paths but we are able to share those differences and find the underlying simmilarities and one of our recent discoveries is within the nature of the first thought, that which is most spontaneous.

Following the intial desire is the most honest even if it's coming from sub conscious, mind conscious or super conscious. That first thought is the one to be followed, spoken or otherwise brought into being... everything else is the mind getting in the way.

So, which of you, Gem and Humm is adhering to this.

[Silver]

I like your post, Mr. I.

sorry

[silent whisper]

How about telling off time?

Nope, won't go so far as that but the exchange between Humm and Gem needs/wants some 'observation' from the rest of us, maybe?

You are both either overcoming the fear of judgement or overcome by a fear of judgement, but the weak link of the exchange is the use of judgements, so I judge.

Judgements don't end at simple statements for or against but can also be goading to attain a position, I'm sure you guys know this.

So what if someone else thinks we're idiots or doing things a way they don't think is profitable to us. It's most probably true, or at least half true, but again what matter is it?

What matter it is, from my perspective, is that it goes to the heart of what judgement really means and my idea is that judgements will occur, they are a natural part of being, but I think it helps immensely when the judge knows where they are coming from and the difference therein between a lower or higher self.

I got into trouble yesterday and got a tellin' off and the simple fact that my mind argued my innocence for so long afterwards, was in need of protecting it's stand, that I knew the message that came with the tellin' off was valld. I had to eat some humble pie.

Now that message to get my house in order may have been in the terms of a person judging me, which with my superior moral and ethical understanding I could argue my denials, but that doesn't mean that the judgement wasn't a good call in essence, at it's core essence was a deeper truth and so from the mouths of babes doesn't just mean... from the mouths of babes.

Now I have a very old friend, as in we've been friends for a long time, and we're in one of the troughs at the moment where we can't stand each other, sad to say they happen every few years, but we'll get over it 'cause we both kinda realise that our ability to be enemies is almost as required as our abilities to be compadres. We take completely different paths but we are able to share those differences and find the underlying simmilarities and one of our recent discoveries is within the nature of the first thought, that which is most spontaneous.

Following the intial desire is the most honest even if it's coming from sub conscious, mind conscious or super conscious. That first thought is the one to be followed, spoken or otherwise brought into being... everything else is the mind getting in the way.

So, which of you, Gem and Humm is adhering to this.


I like.

As an observer looking in, sometimes one can see that their is an unwillingess for one to break a cycle of perhaps "the need to be right"...or even if I surrender this it would mean I would have to feel my own vunerablity, exposure...their could also be a theme of protecting myself at all costs....their could also be some element of enjoyment in this little game...which I suspect is a game but with some hidden pain body going on all the sams...the other element is that one "feels" the others resistance the so they "feel" that and then try to help the other "see" their resistance...in that seeing the one resisting resists further......and on and on it goes...like a game of patterns that could be never ending..

As an observer looking in once again.......I am glad I found the key to breaking my own cycle in this pattern with Gem......which took me like three weeks to "see and feel"....hey they say it takes three weeks to break free from addictions...:smile:

[silent whisper]

I like your post, Mr. I.

My quickie-take on Gem v Humm is that while Gem makes statements that stand pretty solidly, he still is viewed by me as having an unnecessary, sometimes unproductive chip on his shoulder...while Humm is quite good at shielding himself from getting mud splattered on his bright white suit even if it means avoiding the truth about a thing or two...


Ah yes the unproductive chip....I can agree with you because he cares for you so he may not jump down my throat...on this if your with me...:D

Im not sure about the white suit thingy...but..lol~~

[Shabby]

I just love them both...but for different reasons.

[Silver]

Ah yes the unproductive chip....I can agree with you because he cares for you so he may not jump down my throat...on this if your with me...:D

Im not sure about the white suit thingy...but..lol~~

Yeah, let's shake on that, sister. :hug3:

I may not be right about the white suit thingy ~ but I think I sorta am

...but they're both good men.:love1:

:D

[silent whisper]

Yeah, let's shake on that, sister. :hug3:

I may not be right about the white suit thingy ~ but I think I sorta am

...but they're both good men.:love1:

:D


Yes they are both good souls...I agree with you on that too. :smile:

We is in agreeance today sister...:hug3:

[silent whisper]

oh hang on you said men I said souls...I take that back...I didnt fully agree with you....but whats a soul between men...or men between souls..hey.....hehee

[silent whisper]

geez I just realized this thread is about overcoming the fear of judgment...god Help me if I am judged here..I think I will survive..oh I am sure of it...lol!!!

[Silver]

oh hang on you said men I said souls...I take that back...I didnt fully agree with you....but whats a soul between men...or men between souls..hey.....hehee

Men with souls...soulful men? Either way! :glasses2: :icon_flower:

[Silver]

geez I just realized this thread is about overcoming the fear of judgment...god Help me if I am judged here..I think I will survive..oh I am sure of it...lol!!!


I know. Isn't it weird how we have this imaginary dark shadow cast over us when we start letting that fear edge into our minds. Happens to me all the time ~ I should say it used to...
:hug3:

[silent whisper]

I know. Isn't it weird how we have this imaginary dark shadow cast over us when we start letting that fear edge into our minds. Happens to me all the time ~ I should say it used to...
:hug3:


Yeah that shadow can sneak in any time..but when I realized I am my own judge and stopped fearing myself....the freedom in living fully didnt seem so scary...and you know for me freedom of speech is part of that too...and lets face it sometimes the speech might no be to our liking but in the end its only coming out of the fingers of the one typing......thats freedom....... no one else really needs to be bothered by it....

But hey a good challenge in life provides wonderful insights...and greater understandings..I like challenges...ok challenge me someone anyone?.....lol!!

[Mr Interesting]

" Judge not, lest ye be judged..."

Is this where it's all come from? Does it mean no judging at all?

I think what's hidden in there is if you think you are capable to make pronouncements on others then make sure your own house is in order. So that means, as I see it, that judging is a valuable part of our social lives but it comes with an in built requirement to have reached a stage in development that enables one to be capable of the deed.

What it doesn't say, though, is that by the time one has reached an ability to judge that the idea of using it may be cast aside...

So what that possibly hints at is that the small area between the two may be a very interesting niche to both learn within ourselves and to teach others.

I don't see judgements as wrong. They are a necessary part of survival until such times as we are beyond the need to rectify the surrounds we inhabit. So while it's seen one way I also think it's not unworth the effort to have a look at overcoming the fear of 'not' judging.

[silent whisper]

" Judge not, lest ye be judged..."

Is this where it's all come from? Does it mean no judging at all?

I think what's hidden in there is if you think you are capable to make pronouncements on others then make sure your own house is in order. So that means, as I see it, that judging is a valuable part of our social lives but it comes with an in built requirement to have reached a stage in development that enables one to be capable of the deed.

What it doesn't say, though, is that by the time one has reached an ability to judge that the idea of using it may be cast aside...

So what that possibly hints at is that the small area between the two may be a very interesting niche to both learn within ourselves and to teach others.

I don't see judgements as wrong. They are a necessary part of survival until such times as we are beyond the need to rectify the surrounds we inhabit. So while it's seen one way I also think it's not unworth the effort to have a look at overcoming the fear of 'not' judging.


yeah I get that...I remember when I went through a rather fast manifested mind clean out...I was so terrified of feeling the judgement on my own mind stuff..you know like I shouldnt be thinking this...this is so wrong....it was actually a level of being ok in that space to let it all unfold...then of course learning that I was the only judge blocking my way into that space..the mind then released what I needed to then just feel...and let go...

[silent whisper]

" Judge not, lest ye be judged..."

Is this where it's all come from? Does it mean no judging at all?

I think what's hidden in there is if you think you are capable to make pronouncements on others then make sure your own house is in order. So that means, as I see it, that judging is a valuable part of our social lives but it comes with an in built requirement to have reached a stage in development that enables one to be capable of the deed.

What it doesn't say, though, is that by the time one has reached an ability to judge that the idea of using it may be cast aside...

So what that possibly hints at is that the small area between the two may be a very interesting niche to both learn within ourselves and to teach others.

I don't see judgements as wrong. They are a necessary part of survival until such times as we are beyond the need to rectify the surrounds we inhabit. So while it's seen one way I also think it's not unworth the effort to have a look at overcoming the fear of 'not' judging.


As I re read all this again...that bolded part makes more sense to me....now.

[silent whisper]

Ok the small area between the two....yes now that hits the spot..

[silent whisper]

No judgement is wrong....so hath no fear and judge me...if you must...or if not I will judge you..if I must...and we can be ok.....ok?

[Shabby]

" Judge not, lest ye be judged..."

Is this where it's all come from? Does it mean no judging at all?

I think what's hidden in there is if you think you are capable to make pronouncements on others then make sure your own house is in order. So that means, as I see it, that judging is a valuable part of our social lives but it comes with an in built requirement to have reached a stage in development that enables one to be capable of the deed.

What it doesn't say, though, is that by the time one has reached an ability to judge that the idea of using it may be cast aside...

So what that possibly hints at is that the small area between the two may be a very interesting niche to both learn within ourselves and to teach others.

I don't see judgements as wrong. They are a necessary part of survival until such times as we are beyond the need to rectify the surrounds we inhabit. So while it's seen one way I also think it's not unworth the effort to have a look at overcoming the fear of 'not' judging.

Jesus said not to judge but then he also said that if he did judge is was a righteous judgment....or something like that. What I take from that is that if something is in my awareness like let's say someone would be harming another....I will step in....in that moment I may use judgement against the action of another but not against the person. I don't know what this person has been through themselves to be capable of this kind of action. People only hurt others out of a pain they feel themselves.

[TeeHee]

Jesus said not to judge but then he also said that if he did judge is was a righteous judgment....or something like that. What I take from that is that if something is in my awareness like let's say someone would be harming another....I will step in....in that moment I may use judgement against the action of another but not against the person. I don't know what this person has been through themselves to be capable of this kind of action. People only hurt others out of a pain they feel themselves.

Jesus meant, for us not to be the Judge or arbitrator over one's destiny. One cannot go through life without making moral judgments, if one were to say that you should not judge, then that in itself is a moral judgment. Rather, Christ is the judge having the honor on the right side of the father who judges righteously by what is right in His sight. And thus, Christians have that conscience, and it is constantly under conviction by the Holy Spirit.

I haven't read entirely the post within this thread and subject, however, my thoughts from the title were that we should "stop doing" what is convicting our conscience or "start doing" what is right, instead of building an immunity to conviction that is good. Sure, we may sometimes sort of parrot the immoral judgments of others that we have heard by applying it to ourselves, but this is not the subject, and if it is excuse me in not having read the thread.

Much obliged.

[BlueSky]

We all have different personalities. Thank god...........

It's counter-productive and serves no useful purpose to believe what I may think I see about another so I try to ignore such thoughts. No chips, no white suits...........just interesting personalities.

(easier said then done though........)

James

[silent whisper]

We all have different personalities. Thank god...........

It's counter-productive and serves no useful purpose to believe what I may think I see about another so I try to ignore such thoughts. No chips, no white suits...........just interesting personalities.

(easier said then done though........)

James


Ignorance is bliss..or is it?

[BlueSky]

Ignorance is bliss..or is it?

Believing my thoughts about another, especially on a forum, is ignorance.
Realizing that my thoughts, intuition, wisdom, "about" another may not be "true" is wisdom.......speaking for me of course...the only person I really know and am qualified to judge or intuit about. :smile:
So I let such thoughts pass.................

James

[Silver]

We all have different personalities. Thank god...........

It's counter-productive and serves no useful purpose to believe what I may think I see about another so I try to ignore such thoughts. No chips, no white suits...........just interesting personalities.

(easier said then done though........)

James

I removed my post ~ that part of it, but can't remove sw's quote ~ I shouldn't have said that stuff. Me and my big mouth.
:icon_frown:

[silent whisper]

Believing my thoughts about another, especially on a forum, is ignorance.
Realizing that my thoughts, intuition, wisdom, "about" another may not be "true" is wisdom.......speaking for me of course...the only person I really know and am qualified to judge or intuit about. :smile:
So I let such thoughts pass.................

James


Oh yes I forgot you do not trust your intuition...fully....so whatever you chose to ignore in your thoughts is for you only...true.

So we passing on further discussion James or has that thought no entered yet? :D ( a thought just came to me...it said...I am so cheeky...and you know what....its true...I beleieve it...lol!!)

[silent whisper]

I removed my post ~ that part of it, but can't remove sw's quote ~ I shouldn't have said that stuff. Me and my big mouth.
:icon_frown:


So in the face of further sharing and awarness silver girl you are having second thoughts...I wonder why anothers sharing has brought you here.

Is their a feeling arising from that others sharing besides your sad face?

[Silver]

Everybody has second thoughts sometimes...

I'm way too blunt sometimes.

[BlueSky]

I removed my post ~ that part of it, but can't remove sw's quote ~ I shouldn't have said that stuff. Me and my big mouth.
:icon_frown:

I wasn't suggesting you shouldn't have said what you said SG......(you/we kind of were asked to give our judgement)....I'm just sharing how many times my intuition about others has been wrong and usually in incidences like this................a forum where we have no chance of really knowing each other because of the cyber space between us.
If I could hang out with Gem or Humm, my guess is that we would laugh at each others idosyncricies(spelling..lol) instead of trying to point them out to each other.
I have been married for 32 years and i know my wife well but still i have "read" her wrong.

The thing is it isn't even about being right or wrong...........we are not trying to change each other (I'm not anyways), just trying to get along even when I disagree or am annoyed by someones personality.

[BlueSky]

Oh yes I forgot you do not trust your intuition...fully....so whatever you chose to ignore in your thoughts is for you only...true.

So we passing on further discussion James or has that thought no entered yet? :D ( a thought just came to me...it said...I am so cheeky...and you know what....its true...I beleieve it...lol!!)

I never said that I don't 'trust' my intuition........regardless though, in regards to this discussion.....even if I had proof that my thoughts about another here were "correct", my heart would keep them to myself.
Silver exhibits that same big heart by wanting to retract her comments.......IMO

Bows to her.........

James

[silent whisper]

I wasn't suggesting you shouldn't have said what you said SG......(you/we kind of were asked to give our judgement)....I'm just sharing how many times my intuition about others has been wrong and usually in incidences like this................a forum where we have no chance of really knowing each other because of the cyber space between us.
If I could hang out with Gem or Humm, my guess is that we would laugh at each others idosyncricies(spelling..lol) instead of trying to point them out to each other.
I have been married for 32 years and i know my wife well but still i have "read" her wrong.

The thing is it isn't even about being right or wrong...........we are not trying to change each other (I'm not anyways), just trying to get along even when I disagree or am annoyed by someones personality.


The key here James is silvergirl reacted to some aspect of your post..that brought about her change of heart. Regardless of whether you didnt intend it that way. She is self reflecting on her own actions and feelings...which is honourable in my eyes. Many would fear this space. :hug3:

We must remember that truth is always changing..for each of us...if we are willing to grow together.

[silent whisper]

Any way James why did you bring her words into your judgement thats what I want to know?

[Mayflow]

The fear of judgment can hold us back from growing and becoming the best we can be. It seem to be as if we are fearing someone else's Judgement about ourselves, but when we look deep within we find it is our own Judgment that is holding us back.

I thought it would be interesting to look into the reasons we judge ourselves and others and maybe looking into different ways to over come Judgement.

I will start off. I used to fear being crazy. This manifested in a letter I received that I needed a psychological examination, which was sent out as a joke without them knowing that this was actually what I feared the most. It was a wake up call for me. While it first scared me when I thought about being in a rubber room all by myself...... I saw that it could be quit comfortable. I would not have to clean the house, worry about bills, cook or do any chores and the best....I could pray and meditate all day long.

But since this was revealed as a joke (Ha, ha) I had the chance to really look at why I feared it so much. I saw that I wanted to be normal, feel accepted without having to tell lies or hold back my thoughts and experiences. I came to an understanding within myself that it would benefit me most to just be myself. I have no secrets and my life is an open book....and I feel free to be who I am, what and when ever I am and change my mind, contradict myself and yes....be crazy : )

You to me, really are crazy. It's why I like you and read your posts. - Well, actually, you seem to always make a lot of sense to me, but since I am probably crazy, that doesn't really matter. I just like being crazy. I don't think I am any longer crazy in the ways that I fear what others may say or think of me though. That, I am sure is up to them. I don't want to think for others.

[silent whisper]

I never said that I don't 'trust' my intuition........regardless though, in regards to this discussion.....even if I had proof that my thoughts about another here were "correct", my heart would keep them to myself.
Silver exhibits that same big heart by wanting to retract her comments.......IMO

Bows to her.........

James


but sometimes your thoughts do not stay to yourself James so which ones do and which ones dont? How do you decide that?

[BlueSky]

The key here James is silvergirl reacted to some aspect of your post..that brought about her change of heart. Regardless of whether you didnt intend it that way. She is self reflecting on her own actions and feelings...which is honourable in my eyes. Many would fear this space. :hug3:

We must remember that truth is always changing..for each of us...if we are willing to grow together.

A bit preachy for my taste Silent..........no further comment....no offense intended....

[silent whisper]

A bit preachy for my taste Silent..........no further comment....no offense intended....


Well I am offended...you speak and run...but thats your choice..

[Mayflow]

No one can offend another. It is up to the individual to feel offended or not as they may choose.

[silent whisper]

Well I dont mean run..I mean when you say no more comment...after voicing your opinion of how my words sound to you..its feels to me like ok I will speak my mind and make no further comment..thats not fair...come back James...

Ok..in all seriousness I am completely ok with you offending me...I value your space much more just this one time of offending me...I can forgive you James...now if this sounds preachy...then so be it...

no further comments from me now either...

[silent whisper]

Ok I wrote that before Mayflow entered so it wasnt prompted by mayflow...:)

[BlueSky]

but sometimes your thoughts do not stay to yourself James so which ones do and which ones dont? How do you decide that?

I do what I think is best.
In this case, it is my opinion that I cannnot know Gem or Humm enough to believe similar thoughts about them if I had them and regardless, I care about them enough to not want to change them and am wise enough to know that I couldn't anyways.:smile:

I can only speak about this in regards to your question.....there is no general answer for all my thoughts.

James

[silent whisper]

I do what I think is best.
In this case, it is my opinion that I cannnot know Gem or Humm enough to believe similar thoughts about them if I had them and regardless, I care about them enough to not want to change them and am wise enough to know that I couldn't anyways.:smile:

I can only speak about this in regards to your question.....ther eis no general answer for all thoughts.

James


James your back..your a champion performer when it comes to pushing through..I admire that..I wasnt talking about Gem or Humm in that question..huh..how did they get back in there?

OH well they have been the centre of attention for too long now...its time someone else was I feel...anyway its good day from me..till we meet again..:hug3:

[Silver]

I had been mulling what I'd posted before James made comments and so when I came back to the computer, I already wanted to take them back, but things had already been quoted so ~ but it's true I've been known to be blunt a time or two...I don't like some of the repercussions that've taken place. I felt it better to erase what I could and try and deal with the rest.

[BlueSky]

No one can offend another. It is up to the individual to feel offended or not as they may choose.

Does it really matter if this is true or not? I mean no offense in asking....:smile:
She is offended.......................are you posting this because you believe that she should remind herself of this so as not to be? Just asking.

In any case..............Silent, I meant no offense and my silence is not me running.
We are not connecting.....I can sense that...........and I have been around long enough to know that sometimes enough has been said.

I really just dropped by to express my views on judging others openly on forums.

Blessings, James

[silent whisper]

I had been mulling what I'd posted before James made comments and so when I came back to the computer, I already wanted to take them back, but things had already been quoted so ~ but it's true I've been known to be blunt a time or two...I don't like some of the repercussions that've taken place. I felt it better to erase what I could and try and deal with the rest.


Nothing is ever sealed in concrete....while the human heart......is beating. If we can forgive ourselves...we find our peace.

Yes past pain of ones actions often will activate those memories.

[silent whisper]

Does it really matter if this is true or not? I mean no offense in asking....:smile:
She is offended.......................are you posting this because you believe that she should remind herself of this so as not to be? Just asking.

In any case..............Silent, I meant no offense and my silence is not me running.
We are not connecting.....I can sense that...........and I have been around long enough to know that sometimes enough has been said.

I really just dropped by to express my views on judging others openly on forums.

Blessings, James


Actually James I dont see that we are not connecting...if anything I feel I am connected..fully to our discussion.

[Silver]

I think about something I said yesterday that I tried to retract, semi-successfully. Some thoughts came crashing down about my mouth getting me into trouble previously on more than one occasion.

In one instance, it wasn't what I said but how I said it...in another, it was just something I said in a matter-of-fact way to the wrong person and both times I paid a heavy price. Now, I realize that it wasn't just my mouth that got me into trouble, but the attitude(s) of others involved. I was already in a very down sad mood yesterday, so I felt guilt and remorse. And I don't want to hurt people or rub them the wrong way. It's true, I sometimes have a tendency to be too blunt.

I wonder if yesterday's reminder will do any good or if this is in 'my stars' or my personality. Will I just end up making myself a target again some day. I don't want to think about it, rofl.

Last night, I even wondered if I should have retracted it and just let it lay...

[Humm]

I think about something I said yesterday that I tried to retract, semi-successfully. Some thoughts came crashing down about my mouth getting me into trouble previously on more than one occasion.

In one instance, it wasn't what I said but how I said it...in another, it was just something I said in a matter-of-fact way to the wrong person and both times I paid a heavy price. Now, I realize that it wasn't just my mouth that got me into trouble, but the attitude(s) of others involved. I was already in a very down sad mood yesterday, so I felt guilt and remorse. And I don't want to hurt people or rub them the wrong way. It's true, I sometimes have a tendency to be too blunt.

I wonder if yesterday's reminder will do any good or if this is in 'my stars' or my personality. Will I just end up making myself a target again some day. I don't want to think about it, rofl.

Last night, I even wondered if I should have retracted it and just let it lay...
I saw the post SG, and I wasn't worried about it.

Others posts do not define me. If they did, do you think we would have been friends so long? :tongue:

Besides, we all have our moments when we say something and later we wonder 'What was I thinking?'. Honestly, I am on this forum every day, and I have a pretty good idea of how people tend to post, but occasionally (or more so) I see these people post differently from how they usually post - I see them misspelling words, scrambling usually flawless grammer, unable to organize their thoughts - in short, it is obvious they are on a bender!

Your comment was not like that at all - but there are others, and they know who they are, not that I am going to judge it, I'm just saying that is another thing I consider when I am replying to posts. Sometimes, quite honestly, I enjoy and take advantage of their honesty when it becomes apparent they are on a bender. :D

To me, it really is about getting our real feelings out where they can be discussed. I don't mind it at all. I know that a person's feelings are theirs, not mine, and also that that is the reality they are experiencing, and that is what I want to see. I don't take it personally if they denigrate me, any more than I feel the things I say have any bearing on their reality. I enjoy your honesty SG - I have said that since the beginning, and I still mean it. I may not always agree with it - but I do appreciate it. :hug:

Occasionally there is a real connection, and that is nice, but mostly there is this stark contrast - and that in turn becomes the message, of how different people see things, and I think that is good too - there is nothing wasted, everything is to a purpose, IMO.

[Silver]

Thanks a bunch, Humm ~ I needed that!
:hug3:

[Humm]

Thanks a bunch, Humm ~ I needed that!
:hug3:
No problem Sis - Thank you. :D :hug2:

[Neville]

I think you can easily overcome the fear of judgement once you know your place in the grand scheme of things, for instance , One of my daily chores is cleaning out the cat litter tray and pooper scooping in the yard. These tasks make me fully aware of my status in the the subordiniate pecking order of creation. :smile:

[Humm]

I think you can easily overcome the fear of judgement once you know your place in the grand scheme of things, for instance , One of my daily chores is cleaning out the cat litter tray and pooper scooping in the yard. These tasks make me fully aware of my status in the the subordiniate pecking order of creation. :smile:
Brother, you said it! :D

[Mr Interesting]

I think we gotta have a look at this stuff Silver!

To me, that stuff that comes out without thinking and even on a wave of emotion is really important in the long run. The unguarded moment.

I used to do it all the time and got into immense trouble by doing so, all sorts of the proverbial would hit the fan. But I kinda kept with it as I had no real choice in the matter. Sometimes it would be my own stuff coming up from subconscious, especially when it rose on passions, but often it was stuff that would just fall out of me and get those around me either totally incised or laughing their heads off, or be a mixture of the two very capable of creating divisions between people.

But this stuff that would just drop out was always so incise and too the point I actually enjoyed being around such wisdom, even as I had no idea where it was coming from, even if I had to catch the flac for its utterance.

But over the years it seems I've proven my worthiness and when it happens now it's always softer and more subtle, the punches are pulled, and, if anything, the things I say are alot more humorous... but still they speak volumes.

That said as well, I've always been lucky enough, that the groups of people who were buddies, knew of my way and were somewhat supportive of protecting me in less than ideal environments... so I kept doing it.

So that's the story and I think it's quite an important part of what we're discussing as the whole idea of judgements is that others reign in our ability to be ourselves with those judgements they may or may not make. We can can only ever use the life we inhabit to unburden ourselves of the subconscious we have grafted onto ourselves and also that life is the one through which higher conscious seeks to have itself raise the consciousness of all. Judgements for and against, within or without are the shields that conscious life raises to stop or deter that raising of consciousness.

[Humm]

I think we gotta have a look at this stuff Silver!

To me, that stuff that comes out without thinking and even on a wave of emotion is really important in the long run. The unguarded moment.

I used to do it all the time and got into immense trouble by doing so, all sorts of the proverbial would hit the fan. But I kinda kept with it as I had no real choice in the matter. Sometimes it would be my own stuff coming up from subconscious, especially when it rose on passions, but often it was stuff that would just fall out of me and get those around me either totally incised or laughing their heads off, or be a mixture of the two very capable of creating divisions between people.

But this stuff that would just drop out was always so incise and too the point I actually enjoyed being around such wisdom, even as I had no idea where it was coming from, even if I had to catch the flac for its utterance.

But over the years it seems I've proven my worthiness and when it happens now it's always softer and more subtle, the punches are pulled, and, if anything, the things I say are alot more humorous... but still they speak volumes.

That said as well, I've always been lucky enough, that the groups of people who were buddies, knew of my way and were somewhat supportive of protecting me in less than ideal environments... so I kept doing it.

So that's the story and I think it's quite an important part of what we're discussing as the whole idea of judgements is that others reign in our ability to be ourselves with those judgements they may or may not make. We can can only ever use the life we inhabit to unburden ourselves of the subconscious we have grafted onto ourselves and also that life is the one through which higher conscious seeks to have itself raise the consciousness of all. Judgements for and against, within or without are the shields that conscious life raises to stop or deter that raising of consciousness.
Nicely said!


I appreciate that I can be myself with you, and assure you you can be yourself with me.

[Silver]

To me, that stuff that comes out without thinking and even on a wave of emotion is really important in the long run. The unguarded moment.



I haven't been so lucky a couplea times like I said...when I think back on things I've blurted out sometimes now, later in my life, I shudder.

But I hear what you're saying, Mr. I.

And I'm grateful to know who I know here where it's (relatively) safe!

[silent whisper]

I think we gotta have a look at this stuff Silver!

To me, that stuff that comes out without thinking and even on a wave of emotion is really important in the long run. The unguarded moment.

I used to do it all the time and got into immense trouble by doing so, all sorts of the proverbial would hit the fan. But I kinda kept with it as I had no real choice in the matter. Sometimes it would be my own stuff coming up from subconscious, especially when it rose on passions, but often it was stuff that would just fall out of me and get those around me either totally incised or laughing their heads off, or be a mixture of the two very capable of creating divisions between people.

But this stuff that would just drop out was always so incise and too the point I actually enjoyed being around such wisdom, even as I had no idea where it was coming from, even if I had to catch the flac for its utterance.

But over the years it seems I've proven my worthiness and when it happens now it's always softer and more subtle, the punches are pulled, and, if anything, the things I say are alot more humorous... but still they speak volumes.

That said as well, I've always been lucky enough, that the groups of people who were buddies, knew of my way and were somewhat supportive of protecting me in less than ideal environments... so I kept doing it.

So that's the story and I think it's quite an important part of what we're discussing as the whole idea of judgements is that others reign in our ability to be ourselves with those judgements they may or may not make. We can can only ever use the life we inhabit to unburden ourselves of the subconscious we have grafted onto ourselves and also that life is the one through which higher conscious seeks to have itself raise the consciousness of all. Judgements for and against, within or without are the shields that conscious life raises to stop or deter that raising of consciousness.


Very cool...as always..

unguarded moments...can be revealing to self...and that is all that matters, we deal, we feel..we let go..as we grow deeper into self, most often the ones we then find to let those moments go with are exactly who we need...

[silent whisper]

I haven't been so lucky a couplea times like I said...when I think back on things I've blurted out sometimes now, later in my life, I shudder.

But I hear what you're saying, Mr. I.

And I'm grateful to know who I know here where it's (relatively) safe!


Well if its not safe here........I am in major trouble....:D :wink:

[Neville]

Hello Humm,

I appreciate that I can be myself with you, and assure you you can be yourself with me.

I do like this. I was reading what SG and Mr I said about stuff just blurting out.. I could not help wondering..Because all of us have just "blurted out stuff"at times, whether the self recrimination for such things kinda leaned the emphasis in your articulation towards assuring oneself that you can be yourself with you. Circumventing the fear of judgement by accepting that yes...sometimes I can muck things up. bearing in mind that perfection is an ideal and that given we are as we were made/ have become, perhaps there is much of merit in being perfectly, imperfect, flawlessly flawed etc.

Who knows, I could be jabbering again(An inbuilt trait of mine) the vocalisation of ones thought processes and all that:smile:

[silent whisper]

Hello Humm,



I do like this. I was reading what SG and Mr I said about stuff just blurting out.. I could not help wondering..Because all of us have just "blurted out stuff"at times, whether the self recrimination for such things kinda leaned the emphasis in your articulation towards assuring oneself that you can be yourself with you. Circumventing the fear of judgement by accepting that yes...sometimes I can muck things up. bearing in mind that perfection is an ideal and that given we are as we were made/ have become, perhaps there is much of merit in being perfectly, imperfect, flawlessly flawed etc.

Who knows, I could be jabbering again(An inbuilt trait of mine) the vocalisation of ones thought processes and all that:smile:


Yes be yourself with you...

I do feel the more we muck up.....the less we muck up.....in muck ups..

I am mucked if I do....I am mucked if I dont...then I am just completely mucked...:)

[Mr Interesting]

Perfectly imperfect and flawlessly flawed... now we're getting somewhere!

As the painter once said 'to make the flowers brighter you gotta add mud.'

Sanding the **** out of something until it's gleaming and with it's topcoat of the perfect varnish might mean the Rich and obese might buy it to show their ability to define prestige but it also means you've spent countless hours on your knees willing to follow an idea of perfection that is and has been created to define wealth through obedience.

Allowing the scars and blemishes of an honest life to widen the story and include characters of ill repute that scuffle through the shadows... now we have depth!

Allowing mistakes... oh yes!

[silent whisper]

Perfectly imperfect and flawlessly flawed... now we're getting somewhere!

As the painter once said 'to make the flowers brighter you gotta add mud.'

Sanding the **** out of something until it's gleaming and with it's topcoat of the perfect varnish might mean the Rich and obese might buy it to show their ability to define prestige but it also means you've spent countless hours on your knees willing to follow an idea of perfection that is and has been created to define wealth through obedience.

Allowing the scars and blemishes of an honest life to widen the story and include characters of ill repute that scuffle through the shadows... now we have depth!

Allowing mistakes... oh yes!


Do we really need to get hung up on "the" story?

I have a writer friend who has had a life of physical and emotional abuse. When she creates stories correlating to her real life, she reached a point in her writing where by she was ready to add the feelings necessary to bring the complete story, herself to light. She found it incredibly painful to go to that place, so she used some imaginary creatures to play the roles...to feel safe for that moment. When I read her story, for the first time I felt her expressing pain with these creatures she imagined and created in ways she hadnt entered before. In many ways this was a stepping stone towards the true story and feelings combined. As she nears her own full revealing, she uses her imagination and safe measures to bring light to the real meaning behind all the stories created and shared.

[Mr Interesting]

Don't know but the whole western world's hung up on one particular story... so a passing interest in them probably doesn't go amiss.

Indeed, the shining glory we're all 'heading' towards. I'm more inclined to the people behind me than to anyone who ahead.

[Gem]

Allowing the scars and blemishes of an honest life to widen the story and include characters of ill repute that scuffle through the shadows... now we have depth!

mmmmm, that makes sense to me.

[BlueSky]

Don't know but the whole western world's hung up on one particular story... so a passing interest in them probably doesn't go amiss.

Indeed, the shining glory we're all 'heading' towards. I'm more inclined to the people behind me than to anyone who ahead.

That's quite a statement.........the whole western world.....really?
I must of missed something.

Gotta go now and get on my horse and shoot me some injuns....:tongue:

[Mr Interesting]

Sorry White, it was hidden in plain site though.

'hung up on one story...' Christ on the cross... '... them...' the Bible 'shining glory...' redemption.

All alluding to the stories that we default to judgement...

[Mayflow]

Sorry White, it was hidden in plain site though.

'hung up on one story...' Christ on the cross... '... them...' the Bible 'shining glory...' redemption.

All alluding to the stories that we default to judgement...

Isn't saying the whole Western World defaulting to judgement? Like White, I am either missing something or I completely disagree with such a sweeping generalization.

[Mr Interesting]

I don't always say things because I mean them... I often just say things to see where they'll go.

It's something I use in Art to enable lateral possibilities to come in.

In the same way I often act before I think for the same reason... to allow mistakes which again open up new avenues.

Default mechanism for Western Civilisation being based on judgement... yup, I'd suppose I'd believe that.

[Swami Chihuahuananda]

It's a little extremely , far, far, far too late to start worrying about how I'm percieved. Having been a degenerate drunk, drug addict, perv , weirdo ,lost soul , etc. for many years pretty much trashed any normal sort of personality I may have once posessed, or potentially posessed. I arose from the ashes of my previous life with a deep appreciation for the absurdity of life on this earth , in this deranged American society , and a very , very warped sense of humor . Alongside all these deep, intense, Adult spiritual insights and Serious Ideas , there's a goofy little alien boy in here , having the time of his life , mucking around with not a care in the world . I love the little peckerhead ; he's a lot of fun .

[Mayflow]

I don't always say things because I mean them... I often just say things to see where they'll go.

It's something I use in Art to enable lateral possibilities to come in.

In the same way I often act before I think for the same reason... to allow mistakes which again open up new avenues.

Default mechanism for Western Civilisation being based on judgement... yup, I'd suppose I'd believe that.

If you don't always say things because you mean them, I cannot believe anything you say.

[Mr Interesting]

Nice bunch of words there Dar!!! Very nicely poetic as only the absurd can muster.
Imho...

Well Mayflow, don't believe what I write... it's your choice, but what I may have been alluding to was that my choice of words isn't always my own... okay, I won't allude.

I basically try to empty, as in push ego aside, and see what falls out.

Whether it's try or not I can't really say but when it gets interesting... I'm listening.

[Swami Chihuahuananda]

Nice bunch of words there Dar!!! Very nicely poetic as only the absurd can muster.
Imho...

Well Mayflow, don't believe what I write... it's your choice, but what I may have been alluding to was that my choice of words isn't always my own... okay, I won't allude.

I basically try to empty, as in push ego aside, and see what falls out.

Whether it's try or not I can't really say but when it gets interesting... I'm listening.

That is interesting ...
I think I comprendo the approach , because that's more or less (or more and less ) what I do sometimes. Turn it upside down and see what shakes out . Sometimes after we stop making sense, meaning is what's left, if that makes sense . Remove the linear, logical parts of the brain and let the soul speak, the heart sing , the moment ... um ... flow, the momentum flow , watch it go, you know . You know . Here we go : one fish, two fish, red fish , :fish:
Like a Zen riddle used to short circuit the analytical mind and engage a contemplative state.

[Humm]

If you don't always say things because you mean them, I cannot believe anything you say.
Everything is truth - but just what is the truth of it???

That is the question. :alien:

[sound]

Everything is truth - but just what is the truth of it???

That is the question. :alien:
Yes ... even a lie has an element of truth in that it is the truth that it is a lie .... is that an example of what you mean Humm?

[Humm]

Yes ... even a lie has an element of truth in that it is the truth that it is a lie .... is that an example of what you mean Humm?
Yes.

For example, if someone lies about their age, the truth is their anxiety and shame of their age, in addition to their hope and belief in deception.

[sound]

The fear of judgment can hold us back from growing and becoming the best we can be.

Hi shabby
yes .... it is fear of judgement I feel, that is the real inhibitor and not so much the judgement it self ... it is hard to sidestep judgement completely ... calling it discernment makes it feel less closed minded and easier to accept as part of the process of refining our ability to make wise choices ... it feels less discriminating but is still ultimately based on a preference ... i think this thread will quickly gather momentum if past experience is anything to go by lol ...

[Mayflow]

Yes.

For example, if someone lies about their age, the truth is their anxiety and shame of their age, in addition to their hope and belief in deception.

I don't agree. If someone lies about their age, there could be many different reasons. Maybe they want something that they maybe don't think they can get if their true age is known. Maybe they think that if their true age is known, they won't be taken seriously.

I also do not think that if someone lies of their age, that it is true that your two suppositions of their motivations are truth at all much less the total truth.

[Shabby]

I don't agree. If someone lies about their age, there could be many different reasons. Maybe they want something that they maybe don't think they can get if their true age is known. Maybe they think that if their true age is known, they won't be taken seriously.

I also do not think that if someone lies of their age, that it is true that your two suppositions of their motivations are truth at all much less the total truth.

I agree with you Mayflow. I just can't see how there are half truths or half lies.

[Shabby]

Hi shabby
yes .... it is fear of judgement I feel, that is the real inhibitor and not so much the judgement it self ... it is hard to sidestep judgement completely ... calling it discernment makes it feel less closed minded and easier to accept as part of the process of refining our ability to make wise choices ... it feels less discriminating but is still ultimately based on a preference ... i think this thread will quickly gather momentum if past experience is anything to go by lol ...

I see the need to discern between what serves us and what does not, but judging someone for them appearing as so or so does not serve me : )

[Humm]

I don't agree. If someone lies about their age, there could be many different reasons. Maybe they want something that they maybe don't think they can get if their true age is known. Maybe they think that if their true age is known, they won't be taken seriously.

I also do not think that if someone lies of their age, that it is true that your two suppositions of their motivations are truth at all much less the total truth.
I am not saying that IS the truth, I am saying there is a truth behind it.

Yes, there could be many different reasons - and those reasons would be the truth. Now, you could say that the true reasons are not true - but you could also say the moon is cheese.

[Mayflow]

I am not saying that IS the truth, I am saying there is a truth behind it.

Yes, there could be many different reasons - and those reasons would be the truth. Now, you could say that the true reasons are not true - but you could also say the moon is cheese.

I suppose I could, but I doubt anyone would believe it. Do you want me to try to prove it? OK. All things exist in an interlationship with all things else. So cutting the long story quite short. The Moon is Cheese. Do you have a counter argument that says the moon and cheese are not both parts of the same multisphere?

[Humm]

I suppose I could, but I doubt anyone would believe it. Do you want me to try to prove it? OK. All things exist in an interlationship with all things else. So cutting the long story quite short. The Moon is Cheese. Do you have a counter argument that says the moon and cheese are not both parts of the same multisphere?
:rolleyes:

[silent whisper]

I don't agree. If someone lies about their age, there could be many different reasons. Maybe they want something that they maybe don't think they can get if their true age is known. Maybe they think that if their true age is known, they won't be taken seriously.

I also do not think that if someone lies of their age, that it is true that your two suppositions of their motivations are truth at all much less the total truth.


I sometimes dont tell people my age...that keeps them guessing..and its intersting to see how the relationship unfolds without the age factor in the mix...age to me is irrelvant..:smile:

[Neville]

Any ways, I was always told..It's not how old you are. It's how old you feel that matters.:D

[sound]

I don't agree. If someone lies about their age, there could be many different reasons. Maybe they want something that they maybe don't think they can get if their true age is known. Maybe they think that if their true age is known, they won't be taken seriously.

I also do not think that if someone lies of their age, that it is true that your two suppositions of their motivations are truth at all much less the total truth.
If someone tries to make themselves appear younger, then maybe there is a very real fear of the ageing process, and/or an unhealthy obsession about wanting to stay younger looking, which is more about vanity and placing great emphasis on the body beautiful ...

[sound]

I sometimes dont tell people my age...that keeps them guessing..and its intersting to see how the relationship unfolds without the age factor in the mix...age to me is irrelvant..:smile:
I think on here it is relevant ... I always try to remember to check ages in profiles before I interact with new members because it is a family site ... if there was no child membership I wouldn't bother ...

[Mr Interesting]

I often feel surprised when I remember how old I am!

This guy, who in retrospect was quite a miserable cur, said to me when he was 35, and I was 33, that it hit at 34 and I'd be feeling it soon enough... my age, feeling my age.

I'm now on the tipping point of 50 and still haven't felt any real difference. I'm a little slower but I think that's only because I've slowed down and when I try to go fast - I can't sustain that for as long as I might have... but then again I also feel I could get that fitness back resonably easily, or enough of as semblance of it to feel entirely comfortable with.

Okay, it's a little perturbing that I dance and around and have fun much more than people half my age, usually, but I don't care... as long as I'm enjoying it all what matter is the amount of hair on my head and teeth in my mouth... lots have gone!

I wanna be like the dogs I've been honoured to enjoy company with... run around like a mad bugger, barking at birds and chasing the cats, till I can't do it anymore and fall over dead. None of this lingering stuff...here - there. No Mr in-between's.

[Neville]

I wanna be like the dogs I've been honoured to enjoy company with... run around like a mad bugger, barking at birds and chasing the cats, till I can't do it anymore and fall over dead. None of this lingering stuff...here - there. No Mr in-between's. __________________
Yup, go on , have fun, A Life is but a spit or a fart in the enternity. So what say...Analyse it to the grave or enjoy it to the grave by having a little fun.

So many folks scrutinizing the I am , i says what are you ? a blink a little tiny spark, gone in an instant. My epiphany for today. i know a lot of people who already died, this must surely mean that it's gonna be my turn at some point. So what should i be doing? scrutinizing a transitory life or living the thing ?...Who knows what the correct answer is, maybe there is'nt one, all hail the mad bugger's . genius and insanity hold one anothers hand.

[Humm]

Yup, go on , have fun, A Life is but a spit or a fart in the enternity. So what say...Analyse it to the grave or enjoy it to the garve by having a little fun.

So many folks scrutinizing the I am , i says what are you / a blink a little tiny spark, gone in an instant. My epiphany for today. i know a lot of people who already died, this must surely mean that it's gonna be my turn at some point. So what should i be doing? scrutinizing a transitory life or living the thing ?...Who knows what the correct answer is, maybe there is'nt one, all hail the mad bugger's . genius and insanity hold one anothers hand.
Post of the day! :D

[3dnow]

Tricks I have found to defeat telepathic judgment by others:

1. The rule is: Don't judge / don't be judged, otherwise hatred propagates like a virus. There is no other choice: don't judge / don't be judged. This is unconditional love, our true nature.

2. We are the directors of the life game. Judging each other doesn't make sense even if you kill me.

3d