Judas - bad guy? [Archive] - Spiritual Forums

psychic sue

28-02-2006, 01:23 PM

DASA

28-02-2006, 02:15 PM

I was reading a really interesting article the other day. The author (sorry can't remember the name) was basically saying that Judas wasn't such a bad guy after all. It was Jesus' fate to die on the cross - and Judas was just part of God's plan to fullfil Jesus' fate.

I've also heard it said that Judas' motivation for handing over Jesus wasn't anything to do with the 20 pieces of silver. Because he had so much faith in Jesus he thought that if the Romans captured him then he would be forced into revealing his special divinity in order to escape - thus making him famous as a 'mystic' if you like with the people of the time. He never imagined Jesus would just take the punishment like he did? More a conflict of policy/authority than a deliberate betreyal.

That's one theory anyway ...

silver swan

28-02-2006, 02:46 PM

Yes I believe that to be true Dasa. Judus had himself witnessed the miracles of Jesus and therefore believed that he would save himself. I do not believe that Judus thought for a second that Jesus would sacrifice his life in this way.

Space_Man

28-02-2006, 08:51 PM

Interesting thread. Some random thoughts (in no particular order):
• Judas occupies the role of the betrayer archetype. You almost have to wonder if Judas was as much chosen by Jesus to be an Apostle, as he was chosen (by God, perhaps?) to be the “betrayer”…although, in theological terms, that would seem to suggest that Judas did not have free-will (http://www.spiritualforums.com/vb/showthread.php?t=147), which opens-up a whole can of worms… :wink:
• Judas—with his motivation of greed—juxtaposes Christ’s selflessness. His treachery also contrasts with the way in which some of the other Apostles temporarily abandoned Jesus when he was first seized by the soldiers.
• Judas seems symbolic of the type of person that many of us encounter within our everyday, personal lives as well. Who among us hasn’t ever felt betrayed by someone we thought was an ally? And how striking that Judas came up and identified Jesus to the Roman soldiers by kissing him!
• Of course in Dante’s Inferno, Judas occupies the inner-most part of hell, incased in ice, getting chewed-on by Satan. Although the fairness of Judas being in hell (as touched-upon in my first point) is debatable, I suppose.
• "For Jesus knew from the beginning, who they were that did not believe, and who he was, that would betray him.” Did Jesus really know all along that Judas was going to betray him?
• Didn’t Judas repent, and try to return the silver before hanging himself? I’ve read of one theory speculating that Judas killed himself with the intention of seeking forgiveness from Jesus in the other world. In a way, I almost feel sorry for the guy…
• Although I’ve never seen it myself, apparently the film The Last Temptation of Christ set forth (among other things) the interpretation that Judas betrayed Jesus with Jesus’ full knowledge & consent—in a conscious effort to fulfill Biblical prophecy. That sounds like an interesting way to look at it…

DirtyMagicalAly

28-02-2006, 11:11 PM

[QUOTE=Space_Man][COLOR=#000000]

Space_Man

01-03-2006, 12:31 AM

That makes it sound as if.....Jesus knew about the phrophecy, and rather, decided he WOULD fulfill it rather than waiting to see if it would turn out true in the end anyway....sounds a bit like manipulation........doesnt sound like something a selfless (word u used earlier in ur post), godtype figure would do...

Or am I just understanding the whole point u made wrong now?
[COLOR=#444938][FONT=Verdana]No, you make very valid points, as far as I

01-03-2006, 11:34 AM

Perhaps we need to step back at this point and look at the bigger picture.
This conflict between God and Satan, if there is anything in it that is, is surely central to this thread and Judas' motivations and Jesus' motivations.
Manipulating others towards the light and out of the dark, is that unscrupulous manipulation?, is it part of God's agenda ?
On the basis of what we know, Jesus was an INSTRUMENT of God (or even Christ, or both, ho ho) and Judas appears to be with Jesus, but becomes posessed by Satan?. Hmm,this "TRAP" idea, but would Satan not be sussed enough to know about it?, or is Satan not able to read ahead?
In war, it is the foot soldiers who cop it and the high heed yins observe the sacrafice.It is my opinion that,In God's case,the outcome would clear the way to create a new world.
Al*

DASA

01-03-2006, 12:43 PM

Perhaps we need to step back at this point and look at the bigger picture.

I think it might be helpful to step way, way back and ask the question: What do we know for sure? Because otherwise you could speculate for a million years about Jesus and be no nearer to understanding him.

He was a historical male figure who lived for approx 25-32yrs just after 0 AD, he promoted certain teachings, these teachings promise to offer love of God to those who follow them faithfully, making them their life and soul. These teachings became internationally famous largely as a result of the Roman Empire adopting an adjusted version of them around 300-400 AD and the work of a number of inspired preachers over the years.

Do we need to know the how, why, who, when and how in order to understanding the validity of the teachings in their current form? They are all we really have in terms of any factual basis?

psychic sue

01-03-2006, 12:56 PM

No, we don't need to know how or why, it just makes an interesting discussion!

If Judas did repent, why did Dante place him in hell? Surely Jesus' whole message was about repentence and forgiveness? It's a bit of a dilemma.

Space_Man

01-03-2006, 04:57 PM

Judas appears to be with Jesus,but becomes posessed by Satan?
[COLOR=#444938][FONT=Verdana]Interesting idea. Personally, I don

angelus

20-08-2006, 08:47 PM

Dont be fooled on what u read, how could judas betray a man he had followed for many years, after having seen his miracles, he may have been one of the stronger of the apostles for agreeing to do this for christ, he also was killed to hide many truths & did not kill himself, as for St Peter, he had to deny christ for he had to spread the word of the Lord, he couldnt do that if he were dead!!!!

Indigo Rose

26-08-2006, 05:58 AM

I think Judas betrayed the Lord out of greed. This was a sinful act. Given that Jesus had to be betrayed, I believe God knew Judas would chose to do it...because God knows the thoughts and heart of everyone. However, I believe Judas felt remorse and repented. I believe the gospel bearing his name is false doctrine penned by followers of the Cainite religion; which are not truly believers in Jesus the Christ.

psychic sue

27-08-2006, 12:15 PM

Hi Indigo - are you the same Indigo from Aeclectic? Nice to see you here!

Indigo Rose

30-08-2006, 05:53 AM

Hi Indigo - are you the same Indigo from Aeclectic? Nice to see you here!

Hi Sue...yes, it's me. :smile:

I am not here as often as AT, but found this spot when looking for a place with the Spirituality as the focus. I said Hi to you in my first post here, but I think it got lost in the sea of posts. :smile:

Good to see you here too, Sue.

Peace and Blessings,
Indigo Rose

Mick in England

30-08-2006, 02:44 PM

I was reading a really interesting article the other day. The author (sorry can't remember the name) was basically saying that Judas wasn't such a bad guy after all. It was Jesus' fate to die on the cross - and Judas was just part of God's plan to fullfil Jesus' fate.
I was thinking about this - Peter denied Christ three times, yet he didn't seem to get the bad press that Judas did! Was this simply because money was involved in the case of Judas?

The Judas episode is certainly very interesting, we know from the gospels that Jesus was on to him all along ("I chose you all,and one of you is a devil" he said to his disciples), and he was money-mad, yet Jesus even allowed him to be in charge of the groups money-bag!
After betraying Jesus, he panicked and threw the thirty pieces of silver back at the priests, then went off and hung himself.
Maybe that remorse will make God cut him some slack on Judgment Day, we just don't know.

As for Peter denying Christ, he repented afterwards, and anyway its not as serious as leading the soldiers to arrest Jesus like Judas did..

victoriaplum

31-08-2006, 01:29 PM

I always felt sorry for Judas. Imagine spending all of eternity with that hanging over you!!! Even if the poor guy was forgiven, he'd still have a barrage of questions from everyone who meets him on the next spiritual plane!!!! :)

psychic sue

03-09-2006, 04:29 PM

That's the whole Christian message though isn't it? Repent and you shall be forgiven? So why is Judas not allowed this luxury? It's a dichotemy for me. He must have been truly sorry for what he did, or he would have just enjoyed his new found wealth and not hung himself.

In my opinion, denying Christ is just as serious as handing him over to the soldier's. To deny you know someone to save your own skin - when that person has been such a huge influence on your life - I think that's pretty low.