"The Necessity for Solitude, Quieteness, and Obscurity

[Saint Seraphim]

Hello,
There is a book called: Celebration of Discipline written by Richard Foster. Foster writes,
"Superficiality is the curse of our age. The doctrine of instant gratification is a primary spiritual problem. The desperate need today is not for a greater number of intelligent people, or gifted people, but for deep people."

The book continues with the idea that a life marked by depth can only be cultivated by protracted periods of time spent in solitude, quieteness, and obscurity.

Please share some of your opinions about the above statement?

Saint Seraphim

[Swami Chihuahuananda]

Hello,
There is a book called: Celebration of Discipline written by Richard Foster. Foster writes,
"Superficiality is the curse of our age. The doctrine of instant gratification is a primary spiritual problem. The desperate need today is not for a greater number of intelligent people, or gifted people, but for deep people."

The book continues with the idea that a life marked by depth can only be cultivated by protracted periods of time spent in solitude, quieteness, and obscurity.

Please share some of your opinions about the above statement?

Saint Seraphim

I say 'whatever works'. My spiritual condition is not dependent on whether or not I am alone, whether I meditate , whether I am quiet , or any external conditions. I was going over this driving around today listening to music, remembering a long time ago, when I realized that awareness is a totally inside job; I couldn't make myself more spiritual by living a certain way , according to some formula for correct spiritual living. I realized that my true awareness and spiritual connection was far deeper and fundamental than any or all of the external conditions I used to place so much importance on .
I'm pretty far away from having my spiritual condition be defined or determined by what my physical body is doing . Real connection to spirit and the whole is not something that is so weak and tenuous that you lose it by
going out in the world and interacting; at least it isn't for me. That's the way it is for me now. I have to disagree that there's a right way and wrong way, a good way or a bad way. Whatever works for whoever it works for.

The other thing, and it's a biggie : My personal evolution is a given; it's inevitable. My personal will, mind, mental and/or emotional bodies, do not determine the evolution. It's an expansion fueled by energies manifesting here by a process that I have surrendered to , and it's no longer even about me as an individual . Individual evolution is a given, and since I surrender to it, I don't have to work at it. I remind myself to surrender, to allow everything in I can , but I'm not determining what comes in, not the everyday me. I allow whatever is coming in to come in and I don't even have to know the details. It's energy, it's new structures, new pathways ; I don't figure it all out. I don't try because I don't need to . It's not about me ; it's about a bigger picture , a bigger story than personal evolution .

[Saint Seraphim]

Thank you for sharing that Dar. Some good points. As you said, and I agree, people are different and what may work for some may not work for others. It may not be a necessity for some to abide by the suggestions Frost makes for Spiritual depth.
But, I keep seeing this pattern amongst Spiritual masters, sages, prophets, etc. across many different beliefs and faiths. Many have spent extended periods of time in solitude, Quietness, and obscurity. And after doing so many have achieved levels of Spiritual depth/develpoment that had not been seen prior to their seeking solitude. In my experiences, all three are gateways to having depth. But, I do understand "whatever works" philosophy also.
Take Care,
Saint Seraphim

[Xan]

...a life marked by depth can only be cultivated by protracted periods of time spent in solitude, quieteness, and obscurity.

I agree. Since depth is inner experiencing and inner knowing, beyond the mind, time alone and quiet is essential.


Xan

[Swami Chihuahuananda]

The experience and awareness , it's depth and intensity, supercede the condition of whether or not I'm being still. The stillness does not determine the depth. The depth determines the stillness. That's a better way of saying what I want to say.


DS

[silent whisper]

The experience and awareness , it's depth and intensity, supercede the condition of whether or not I'm being still. The stillness does not determine the depth. The depth determines the stillness. That's a better way of saying what I want to say.


DS


I like that bolded bit Dar...

[Xan]

The stillness does not determine the depth. The depth determines the stillness.

As I see it, these are interactive. The depth we discover in the stillness goes deeper as the silence becomes more silent.


Xan

[Miss Hepburn]

I like that bolded part, too!!!

I often point out to people the incredible importance and necessity
of solitude when we look at Jesus' life and how often he went off by himself.
Imagine such a great man needing to go off in prayer and solitude as often as he did.

Ah, says volumes.
:notworthy:

[Swami Chihuahuananda]

The stillness does not determine the depth. The depth determines the stillness.

As I see it, these are interactive. The depth we discover in the stillness goes deeper as the silence becomes more silent.


Xan

I see that .
I also value the energy and intensity of waking movement , especially with music involved . Music and walking are some of my best moments ....and the dreams :D

[Saint Seraphim]

Dar,
I would ask you this. Have you done solitude and quietness? A still point from which to see. The internal and external effect the other. How can one truly achieve stillness when their life is moving at the speed of light. Will more thoughts and external noise bring about stillness? To me, all is a blur without this still point from which to see. To awaken that which sleeps. And that thing that sleeps is the watcher, the observer, found in the depths of human beings and is necessary to cultivate Spiritual depth. Maybe you have found another way that works for you. I have found that many in this world abhor silence and cultivation of this still point from which to truly see. Nothing bothers a busy mind more than to sit quietly in solitude.

Xan,
As always, thank you for your wisdom. What do people find in the depths of silence?

Miss Hepburn,
Yes, that is where I am going with much of this. For people to see the value of Solitude and just sitting quitely. To see and listen in stillness. What could be more necessary for a world moving at the speed of light?

Thank you all for sharing what you have,
Saint Seraphim

[Xan]

I also value the energy and intensity of waking movement , especially with music involved . Music and walking are some of my best moments ....and the dreams :D

Solitude doesn't mean sitting still all the time. In fact, this how we become aware in the silence in the midst of active life.


Xan

[Xan]

As always, thank you for your wisdom. What do people find in the depths of silence?

What is found is not describable as it's the thought-free zone,
except that it's silent and unboundaried.
It's only known directly... experientially.


Xan

[Swami Chihuahuananda]

Dar,
I would ask you this. Have you done solitude and quietness? A still point from which to see. The internal and external effect the other. How can one truly achieve stillness when their life is moving at the speed of light. Will more thoughts and external noise bring about stillness? To me, all is a blur without this still point from which to see. To awaken that which sleeps. And that thing that sleeps is the watcher, the observer, found in the depths of human beings and is necessary to cultivate Spiritual depth. Maybe you have found another way that works for you. I have found that many in this world abhor silence and cultivation of this still point from which to truly see. Nothing bothers a busy mind more than to sit quietly in solitude.

Xan,
As always, thank you for your wisdom. What do people find in the depths of silence?

Miss Hepburn,
Yes, that is where I am going with much of this. For people to see the value of Solitude and just sitting quitely. To see and listen in stillness. What could be more necessary for a world moving at the speed of light?

Thank you all for sharing what you have,
Saint Seraphim

It has nothing to do with the world . Depth and wholeness supercede external conditions. Yes, I've done silence, meditation; still do. My point is about being conscious , shifting to depth , during the day. No , it is not the same as sitting and not thinking but the realization long ago was that every moment is infinite . I need to be doing something basically mindless, like driving or walking , looking at mountains moving by with some primo jams playing, walking by the river . Music has a profound effect on my awareness when I'm awake, open-eyed, and focused .

I stopped thinking that the 'most important' states had to be confined to sitting alone . Divine alchemy can happen outside the gilded chamber too.
Moments of deep awe, energy , and calm catalyzed by a synergetic combination of sound, sight, and ....simply remembering what is . That's what I mean by "the stillness determines the depth" . This kind of intense shift moves me into the calm, the awestruck , transfixed by the beauty of simply being.

D

[Saint Seraphim]

Hello Dar,
Ahhh, I understand. What good is sitting in quiet stillness if that depth of stillness cannot be shifted to waking awareness. The key to me in what you have shared is mindlessnees/emptiness of mind. Indeed emptiness of mind cultivates the depths and indeed if one can cultivate this shift in one's everyday awareness they are truly gifted. It is only the magic moment for many. Thank you very much for sharing that. Very interesting.

There was something else you said in your first thread that was interesting to me. It related to your "individual evolution" as you called it and how the indvidual seems to crash on the rocks in comparison to the bigger picture. There is no longer this attatchment to self that may have been before. I have felt this also. My individual self is still here and there but it is not what is most important any more. To just surrender one's self and be.
Take Care,
Saint Seraphim

[silent whisper]

It has nothing to do with the world . Depth and wholeness supercede external conditions. Yes, I've done silence, meditation; still do. My point is about being conscious , shifting to depth , during the day. No , it is not the same as sitting and not thinking but the realization long ago was that every moment is infinite . I need to be doing something basically mindless, like driving or walking , looking at mountains moving by with some primo jams playing, walking by the river . Music has a profound effect on my awareness when I'm awake, open-eyed, and focused .

I stopped thinking that the 'most important' states had to be confined to sitting alone . Divine alchemy can happen outside the gilded chamber too.
Moments of deep awe, energy , and calm catalyzed by a synergetic combination of sound, sight, and ....simply remembering what is . That's what I mean by "the stillness determines the depth" . This kind of intense shift moves me into the calm, the awestruck , transfixed by the beauty of simply being.

D

Your words inspire me to set my own music of depth and silence alight...beautifully designed..Divine alchemy outside the gilded chamber...yes yes yes...full connection to our senses...full connection to the silence however we choose to be there....it all sounds so deliciously good...and truth to my own heart...:hug3:

[Swami Chihuahuananda]

Solitude doesn't mean sitting still all the time. In fact, this how we become aware in the silence in the midst of active life.


Xan

I was never disagreeing with that :smile:

[Swami Chihuahuananda]

Your words inspire me to set my own music of depth and silence alight...beautifully designed..Divine alchemy outside the gilded chamber...yes yes yes...full connection to our senses...full connection to the silence however we choose to be there....it all sounds so deliciously good...and truth to my own heart...:hug3:

aw shucks ... glad to be of service :D

[Swami Chihuahuananda]

Hello Dar,
Ahhh, I understand. What good is sitting in quiet stillness if that depth of stillness cannot be shifted to waking awareness. The key to me in what you have shared is mindlessnees/emptiness of mind. Indeed emptiness of mind cultivates the depths and indeed if one can cultivate this shift in one's everyday awareness they are truly gifted. It is only the magic moment for many. Thank you very much for sharing that. Very interesting.

There was something else you said in your first thread that was interesting to me. It related to your "individual evolution" as you called it and how the indvidual seems to crash on the rocks in comparison to the bigger picture. There is no longer this attatchment to self that may have been before. I have felt this also. My individual self is still here and there but it is not what is most important any more. To just surrender one's self and be.
Take Care,
Saint Seraphim


Yes, I remember being young and trying to hear some silence over all my chatter . We do need to become quiet to let in the vast calmness, and to go in and find it. I forget what it was like to be disconnected ; connection is easy now, like breathing . It's easy to walk or drive and listen and become empty of mind and filled with the wonder of the moment . I'm glad I finally made it clear what I meant .

The other part ... yes !, when we see that we are perfect in the moment we can let go of always trying to be perfect ( paradox alert :icon_eek: ) . Stepping aside , we might feel the world around us also being moved along inexorably. Like we are ; personal evolution being an inevitable outcome :D .

D

[Xan]

What good is sitting in quiet stillness if that depth of stillness cannot be shifted to waking awareness.

The good in silent meditation is of itself. Being aware in the silence during waking awareness comes later for most of us. The point being, not to make it wrong, wherever you are in the process.


Xan

[Swami Chihuahuananda]

What good is sitting in quiet stillness if that depth of stillness cannot be shifted to waking awareness.

The good in silent meditation is of itself. Being aware in the silence during waking awareness comes later for most of us. The point being, not to make it wrong, wherever you are in the process.


Xan


Yeah I was thinking about both of those points being true and important for me . The big shifts happening during the day didn't start till I was older . for me it was a function of time to some degree but I wonder about young people now , if things are any easier for them because us geezers broke the trails. A whole other group of discussions , these so-called accelerated times , and the effects of morphic fields over the span of generations .

For me, when I finally felt truly connected -- like I had gotten to a threshold that I couldn't go backwards from , when I stopped worrying about losing touch , because there was no longer enough to prevent me from holding on --
there was also a real and deep sense that I couldn't really mess up . The
choice had been made , the work done, the way ahead was clear , and
there wasn't anything wrong. There had never really been anything 'wrong' .
I came to see that everything had played it's part , and even when it felt bad or that I wasn't getting anywhere, from a different angle I had always been evolving. That's when I felt the force of grace ; that's why I say personal evolution is inevitable, because there is grace in the universe, like there is love , and it doesn't have an off switch .

The point about all that is exactly the one you just made , that we ought to
remember that all steps made with sincerity are steps forward , and learn to appreciate that from such a perspective , we can't go wrong. :D

[Xan]

You have said it all well, Dar.


Xan

[Swami Chihuahuananda]

You have said it all well, Dar.


Xan
...sheesh... it took some work though :D

[silent whisper]

Yeah I was thinking about both of those points being true and important for me . The big shifts happening during the day didn't start till I was older . for me it was a function of time to some degree but I wonder about young people now , if things are any easier for them because us geezers broke the trails. A whole other group of discussions , these so-called accelerated times , and the effects of morphic fields over the span of generations .

For me, when I finally felt truly connected -- like I had gotten to a threshold that I couldn't go backwards from , when I stopped worrying about losing touch , because there was no longer enough to prevent me from holding on --
there was also a real and deep sense that I couldn't really mess up . The
choice had been made , the work done, the way ahead was clear , and
there wasn't anything wrong. There had never really been anything 'wrong' .
I came to see that everything had played it's part , and even when it felt bad or that I wasn't getting anywhere, from a different angle I had always been evolving. That's when I felt the force of grace ; that's why I say personal evolution is inevitable, because there is grace in the universe, like there is love , and it doesn't have an off switch .

The point about all that is exactly the one you just made , that we ought to
remember that all steps made with sincerity are steps forward , and learn to appreciate that from such a perspective , we can't go wrong. :D


Nothing is wrong.....so we cant go wrong..:) May the force be with you Dar...:smile:

[Xan]

Nothing is wrong.....so we cant go wrong.

I don't agree with this, sw. It depends on your intention.

There are people and entities with manipulative, mean and destructive intentions. In my view the damage done to others from this position is wrong.

When our intention is to clear ourselves, to heal and to help others, to keep exploring and growing, to recognize the Truth in ourselves and everyone... then we can't go wrong.

One's overriding intention rules.


Xan

[Gem]

Hello,
There is a book called: Celebration of Discipline written by Richard Foster. Foster writes,
"Superficiality is the curse of our age. The doctrine of instant gratification is a primary spiritual problem. The desperate need today is not for a greater number of intelligent people, or gifted people, but for deep people."

The book continues with the idea that a life marked by depth can only be cultivated by protracted periods of time spent in solitude, quieteness, and obscurity.

Please share some of your opinions about the above statement?

Saint Seraphim

Sometimes it's great to get away from the rush and the distractions for a bit of introspection.

[Seawolf]

Hello,
There is a book called: Celebration of Discipline written by Richard Foster. Foster writes,
"Superficiality is the curse of our age. The doctrine of instant gratification is a primary spiritual problem. The desperate need today is not for a greater number of intelligent people, or gifted people, but for deep people."

The book continues with the idea that a life marked by depth can only be cultivated by protracted periods of time spent in solitude, quieteness, and obscurity.

Please share some of your opinions about the above statement?

Saint Seraphim
I disagree, I think there are plenty of deep people, probably the same as there's always been.

Not everyone can think deeply, most people are average, and some are below average intelligence. Also, not everyone wants to be in solitude, or spend hours meditating.

It's my opinion that what would work best to improve our lives would be something that is accessible to all. Not something that requires deep understanding.

[Xan]

Right... Not everyone wants or needs 'deep understanding'.

But just about anyone can see it's good to have time just to hang out with yourself, and to rest in your quiet center.


Xan

[Seawolf]

Right... Not everyone wants or needs 'deep understanding'.

But just about anyone can see it's good to have time just to hang out with yourself, and to rest in your quiet center.


Xan
Sure, I should do that more often myself. :smile: I question the authors idea of it being a necessity though, there are also people I imagine would have a hard time getting very far with it.

[psychoslice]

Yes I agree that we need to be alone much more than most are today, so many want to fill there life with as many friends as they can, they want to have a family that also fills their life in, of course there is nothing wrong with friends and family, but if one truly wants to discover their inner Being, they can only do this when they discover their true SELF. There are many who go throughout their life never truly knowing them self, they know everyone else around them but sadly not their self.

I have never been married and want no children, there are already enough people doing this in the world, I have been told by many, "are you not afraid that when you get old that you will be all by yourself", these is the words of a someone who is afraid to be alone, and cannot realize how anyone could ever be alone.

There has even been reports of people selling their house in city ares to move to a secluded place, such as the forest, most of these people find that they cannot handle the quietness, they start to miss the sounds of traffic and all that goes with living in the city. Now they are alone for the first time, they can even hear themselves thinking.

Aloneness, solitude is positive. It is overflowing joy for no reason. It is our very nature to be joyous, hence there is no need to depend on anybody else. There is no other motive in it, it is simply there. Just as the water flows downwards, your being rises upwards. Just give it a chance -- give it solitude. And remember again, solitude is not solitariness, just as aloneness is not loneliness.

[Gem]

Yes I agree that we need to be alone much more than most are today, so many want to fill there life with as many friends as they can, they want to have a family that also fills their life in, of course there is nothing wrong with friends and family, but if one truly wants to discover their inner Being, they can only do this when they discover their true SELF. There are many who go throughout their life never truly knowing them self, they know everyone else around them but sadly not their self.

I have never been married and want no children, there are already enough people doing this in the world, I have been told by many, "are you not afraid that when you get old that you will be all by yourself", these is the words of a someone who is afraid to be alone, and cannot realize how anyone could ever be alone.

There has even been reports of people selling their house in city ares to move to a secluded place, such as the forest, most of these people find that they cannot handle the quietness, they start to miss the sounds of traffic and all that goes with living in the city. Now they are alone for the first time, they can even hear themselves thinking.

Aloneness, solitude is positive. It is overflowing joy for no reason. It is our very nature to be joyous, hence there is no need to depend on anybody else. There is no other motive in it, it is simply there. Just as the water flows downwards, your being rises upwards. Just give it a chance -- give it solitude. And remember again, solitude is not solitariness, just as aloneness is not loneliness.

I like this one. ^

[Swami Chihuahuananda]

Nothing is wrong.....so we cant go wrong.

I don't agree with this, sw. It depends on your intention.

There are people and entities with manipulative, mean and destructive intentions. In my view the damage done to others from this position is wrong.

When our intention is to clear ourselves, to heal and to help others, to keep exploring and growing, to recognize the Truth in ourselves and everyone... then we can't go wrong.

One's overriding intention rules.


Xan


I wouldn't disagree or argue with any of that. Obviously, positivity generates more positivity and none of us want to be around those who seek to interfere with that or impose destructive agendas.

Another way we found of looking at things is about people who do that kind of thing are also performing a service , which is that of gatekeeping. You can't take your garbage with you into the kingdom , and there are mechanisms that keep that from happening. One is people who try and stop you . If you can be stopped, you will be stopped, slowed down, or delayed until you are ready to go through the fire .

We called such people 'twilight masters' because they operate partially in the dark, with those motives of keeping us from realizing our highest possibilities, whether they're even aware of that or not, and often they aren't. "You need me to help you" , "you can't do it without me" , " you have to do it this way " , or "you're so wise, tell me what to do ", "I can't do it without you " . Never mind the really dark motives; there are plenty of traps along the well-lighted path too. Not that people like this are bad , because from a broader perspective, everything IS perfect and nothing CAN go wrong , but it's about being diligent, having discernment , not having any outside authority, becoming sovereign . Servant and the served. We can be both helpful and get assistance from others without getting tangled up in all kinds of power struggles , conscious or subconscious manipulations, etc. None of us is better than the other .

To me now it's about not being distracted from what I know is real for me , not allowing other people's pictures of reality to override my established 'vision' , but not imposing my reality on anyone else. The most I can do is offer a description of the view from wherever it is I am.

So I can see that ultimately there is no good or bad, wrong or right, but that's a very broad perspective . Within the more normal operating context we're in most of the time , there is a lot that can happen , or we let happen , that will impede us. The thing I said about us not being able to go wrong was about how, after a certain point, you simply don't choose to do things that
mess you up spiritually. I've even found that some things that used to mess me up don't have the power to do that anymore . Then, the other thing about 'not going wrong' was meaning that overall, false steps included, it's all part of getting us (me actually, I know it's how I came to see my own development , at least :wink: ) where we/I need to get.

There's the idea that we come here to fully experience limitation , as a way of working our way up out of it from the very bottom, from a state of total disconnection from and ignorance of spirit , of our vast , magnificent true nature .

(yes, it's hard for me to stay on topic :icon_eek: )

DS

[Xan]

after a certain point, you simply don't choose to do things that mess you up spiritually.

Yes, this does seem so. Yet I've known people personally who were very far along who still made foolish and negative choices.

We can't take anything for granted while we're here in this mind-lead world, but need to remain vigilant to the truth.


Xan

[Xan]

Sure, I should do that more often myself. :smile: I question the authors idea of it being a necessity though, there are also people I imagine would have a hard time getting very far with it.

Of course, whether it's a 'necessity' or not all depends on what you want and what your life is about. No judgment here.

And... these days I'm noticing people who you'd never expect, getting surprised by and wanting to practice centered awareness.


Xan

[Swami Chihuahuananda]

after a certain point, you simply don't choose to do things that mess you up spiritually.

Yes, this does seem so. Yet I've known people personally who were very far along who still made foolish and negative choices.

We can't take anything for granted while we're here in this mind-lead world, but need to remain vigilant to the truth.


Xan


I agree, we always need our discernment and vigilance ; it just gets easier ,
and some things become almost automatic. A lot of things lose their appeal, and like I said some lose their power. Like someone very wise once said, it's not the objects of our attachments that are the problem, it's the attachments themselves , or... (see below)

[silent whisper]

after a certain point, you simply don't choose to do things that mess you up spiritually.

Yes, this does seem so. Yet I've known people personally who were very far along who still made foolish and negative choices.

We can't take anything for granted while we're here in this mind-lead world, but need to remain vigilant to the truth.


Xan



We honour the choices and foolishness of others as their journey and path. We honour ourselves and in that space of honour their is no seperation or "need" to be vigilant. In life unfolding, revealing itself.......we know ourselves fully.

[Xan]

it's not the objects of our attachments that are the problem, it's the attachments themselves , or...

or... it's the attaching - the holding on, the clinging and resisting - in the mind.

Some of these mind habits are very subtle and we can easily fail to catch ourselves in them.

In fact, as we go along we notice subtler attachments and ego-mind patterns to surrender... if we are vigilant.


Xan

[silent whisper]

it's not the objects of our attachments that are the problem, it's the attachments themselves , or...

or... it's the attaching - the holding on, the clinging and resisting - in the mind.

Some of these mind habits are very subtle and we can easily fail to catch ourselves in them.

In fact, as we go along we notice subtler attachments and ego-mind patterns to surrender... if we are vigilant.


Xan


In this moment.........your vigilance is revealed once more.......and I do not mind at all.

[Swami Chihuahuananda]

it's not the objects of our attachments that are the problem, it's the attachments themselves , or...

or... it's the attaching - the holding on, the clinging and resisting - in the mind.

Some of these mind habits are very subtle and we can easily fail to catch ourselves in them.

In fact, as we go along we notice subtler attachments and ego-mind patterns to surrender... if we are vigilant.


Xan

yeah, the 'attachment itself ' meaning our pattern or habit of holding on .

[Seawolf]

Of course, whether it's a 'necessity' or not all depends on what you want and what your life is about. No judgment here.

And... these days I'm noticing people who you'd never expect, getting surprised by and wanting to practice centered awareness.


Xan
I'm one of them! :smile:

[Xan]

So cool, Seawolf. :smile:


Xan

[BlueSky]

I lost my job 6 weeks ago and have been home where my wife has a daycare.
I have worked for 30+ years in engineering so the environment has been like a library.
Now I literally can't hear myself think and I gotta tell ya, I am not handling it well.
Getting better though........however when I read this thread I think that silence is within and can be attained even in the midst of noise.
To want to be alone would be to resist what is happening............
James

[Xan]

when I read this thread I think that silence is within and can be attained even in the midst of noise.


Yep...the silence is that.


Xan

[BlueSky]

when I read this thread I think that silence is within and can be attained even in the midst of noise.


Yep...the silence is that.


Xan


My prayers and blessings go out to all mothers and daycare providers who take care of these little noisy people all day....................there is little to no opportunity to "wind down"
I salute you all!:hug3:

[BlueSky]

when I read this thread I think that silence is within and can be attained even in the midst of noise.


Yep...the silence is that.


Xan


And you know what.......this experience taught me that because it is very obvious when you notice it in the midst of noise. It stands out clearly and is clearly there from what I noticed.........:smile:

[Xan]

Yes... the noticing becomes obvious, and not only in contrast to the noise. It's a whole different perspective.


Xan

[BlueSky]

Yes... the noticing becomes obvious, and not only in contrast to the noise. It's a whole different perspective.


Xan


Yes that resonates very much. I would also say that it is not the opposite of the noise either. Pretty cool actually. I'll have to notice it more often...lol

Blessings, James

[Xan]

Good idea, James.


blessings to you too
Xan

[silent whisper]

My prayers and blessings go out to all mothers and daycare providers who take care of these little noisy people all day....................there is little to no opportunity to "wind down"
I salute you all!:hug3:


Oh gee thanks that is me...*bows*

[silent whisper]

I lost my job 6 weeks ago and have been home where my wife has a daycare.
I have worked for 30+ years in engineering so the environment has been like a library.
Now I literally can't hear myself think and I gotta tell ya, I am not handling it well.
Getting better though........however when I read this thread I think that silence is within and can be attained even in the midst of noise.
To want to be alone would be to resist what is happening............
James

It brings me to my husband with his constant interest in talking to me about cars...I have learned that silence is so inviting in that space.....:D

I have also learned that downtime of myself is important as it is for him. There is a difference in resisting and honouring the need to be alone in your own silence.

[silent whisper]

White Shaman...are you taking a break from work now or are you seeking to take it up again or is daycare now your shared new preference of work..:) I am a retiring day carer going into the healing field...I must say I salute all those entering the field of caring for children

[athribiristan]

Hello,
There is a book called: Celebration of Discipline written by Richard Foster. Foster writes,
"Superficiality is the curse of our age. The doctrine of instant gratification is a primary spiritual problem. The desperate need today is not for a greater number of intelligent people, or gifted people, but for deep people."

Here's the thing about instant gratification. As we move towar a higher global consciousness, the process of manifestation (the transformation of thoughts into reality) will become faster until we reach a point where our thoughts become manifest as we think them. We are just getting warmed up....practicing if you will for the REAL instant gratification

The book continues with the idea that a life marked by depth can only be cultivated by protracted periods of time spent in solitude, quieteness, and obscurity.

That's just silly

Please share some of your opinions about the above statement?

Saint Seraphim

my two cents

[silent whisper]

my two cents


Ah accelleration.....where time becomes irrelvant..it will all be as one. the thought principle no longer holds true...through the other side...it becomes more about spirit..not thoughts.

[BlueSky]

White Shaman...are you taking a break from work now or are you seeking to take it up again or is daycare now your shared new preference of work..:) I am a retiring day carer going into the healing field...I must say I salute all those entering the field of caring for children

Sometimes I find that I come on here and what I have to say is coming from a place where something big is happening in the way of understanding and wisdom. This is one of them. Since this seems like a good place to share it as it wants to be expressed,
let me start at the end;

FOR THE FIRST TIME THAT I CAN REMEMBER, LIFE IS CLEARLY ASKING ME "WHAT DO "I" WANT? (AND I AM THROWN A LITTLE BECAUSE OF IT.)

Background: A lot has been happening these days resulting from losing my job (laid off).
Without going into too many details, I could always see in the background that what was happening was secretely exactly what I wanted. I wanted out of my boring, unrewarding job that I was stuck in for financial reasons. I wanted my financial situation to change but could not figure out a way to do it so that my job situation could change as well. I wanted the very pattern of my life (work/money/etc) to be reformed.
As a result of losing my job it has magically done exactly that and in ways that could not have happened unless I lost my job.
But now everything is different, I am no longer trapped by my life of my making (or was it?)
I am standing looking at life and it is presenting "choices" to me that I never dreamed possible and that I imagined (CONDITIONING?)were something less than 'spiritual'.
3 opportunities have presented themselves almost simultaneously after losing my job 6 weeks ago. They range from a shot at starting a business that pleases me and affects the world in a positive way... to contracting myself out as a professional and being able to go from job to job on short term assignments making very good money...to a very stable nice job in which I could spend the rest of my days at.
The thing is I can see clearly that these are all what I subconsciously want and that seems to be why they are presenting themselves. I can see that all that is happening is subconsciously what I wanted as well. Looking back, maybe my whole life is what I wanted and yet it it always open to changing what I want.
But in the back of my mind or maybe "conditioned mind" is the thought that I should let life just happen.(small stumbling block)
In fact that thought makes sense to me as well, but today, very much so in fact, that thought is a direct argument against what IS happening.

SO anyways, this is a little more than you asked Silent Whisper but I really wanted to share it and would welcome any comments or related experiiences from you or anyone else who has something to share on this.

Can it be that our lives are always becoming what we want?

That's kind of exciting to imagine and when I look around and when I look back, it certainly seems that is the reality of things. The thing is that "goals" seem wrong to me and that is why I am thrown a little by all this.

Thanks for listening................Blessings, James

[Orbie]

I think our lives can become what we want but there are always those things we cant plan for along the way, thats life eh! I had a period in my life five years ago where I had a major career change. Funnily enough I had tried to ignore this change and it kept coming back at me and in such a way that I would be ok with it (cryptic but the story is waaaay to long to share here!). This coincided with a real burst of spiritual development over three years, which eventually slowed to a standstill. (Yes I know standstills have their purpose its not a problem now :) )

Just follow your gut, what is the worst that can happen?

Be happy x

[BlueSky]

I think our lives can become what we want but there are always those things we cant plan for along the way, thats life eh! I had a period in my life five years ago where I had a major career change. Funnily enough I had tried to ignore this change and it kept coming back at me and in such a way that I would be ok with it (cryptic but the story is waaaay to long to share here!). This coincided with a real burst of spiritual development over three years, which eventually slowed to a standstill. (Yes I know standstills have their purpose its not a problem now :) )

Just follow your gut, what is the worst that can happen?

Be happy x

Thanks for sharing Orbie.
It's not really a matter of what should I do though. I'll certainly figure that out.
I am simply reporting what I see as a way of sharing.
I really find it interesting that I am seeing what I am seeing is all.

What do I want? Hum? No one ever asked me that and now it seems that life is...lol

Blessings, James

[silent whisper]

Sometimes I find that I come on here and what I have to say is coming from a place where something big is happening in the way of understanding and wisdom. This is one of them. Since this seems like a good place to share it as it wants to be expressed,
let me start at the end;

FOR THE FIRST TIME THAT I CAN REMEMBER, LIFE IS CLEARLY ASKING ME "WHAT DO "I" WANT? (AND I AM THROWN A LITTLE BECAUSE OF IT.)

Background: A lot has been happening these days resulting from losing my job (laid off).
Without going into too many details, I could always see in the background that what was happening was secretely exactly what I wanted. I wanted out of my boring, unrewarding job that I was stuck in for financial reasons. I wanted my financial situation to change but could not figure out a way to do it so that my job situation could change as well. I wanted the very pattern of my life (work/money/etc) to be reformed.
As a result of losing my job it has magically done exactly that and in ways that could not have happened unless I lost my job.
But now everything is different, I am no longer trapped by my life of my making (or was it?)
I am standing looking at life and it is presenting "choices" to me that I never dreamed possible and that I imagined (CONDITIONING?)were something less than 'spiritual'.
3 opportunities have presented themselves almost simultaneously after losing my job 6 weeks ago. They range from a shot at starting a business that pleases me and affects the world in a positive way... to contracting myself out as a professional and being able to go from job to job on short term assignments making very good money...to a very stable nice job in which I could spend the rest of my days at.
The thing is I can see clearly that these are all what I subconsciously want and that seems to be why they are presenting themselves. I can see that all that is happening is subconsciously what I wanted as well. Looking back, maybe my whole life is what I wanted and yet it it always open to changing what I want.
But in the back of my mind or maybe "conditioned mind" is the thought that I should let life just happen.(small stumbling block)
In fact that thought makes sense to me as well, but today, very much so in fact, that thought is a direct argument against what IS happening.

SO anyways, this is a little more than you asked Silent Whisper but I really wanted to share it and would welcome any comments or related experiiences from you or anyone else who has something to share on this.

Can it be that our lives are always becoming what we want?

That's kind of exciting to imagine and when I look around and when I look back, it certainly seems that is the reality of things. The thing is that "goals" seem wrong to me and that is why I am thrown a little by all this.

Thanks for listening................Blessings, James


thankyou for sharing James. Ah you have moved into the space where the soul purpose is being revealed to you with new eyes of understanding. what comes through your words for me is that space of connecting to our soul path at each point of change. When we become restless for change and we remain in a circumstance, we can often recognise what we want, but not always how it might be done. It feels to me that in your want, the universal soul allignment obliged with you to help you move into soul purpose in ways with that allign to your hearts wishes. Intersting how that works James, is it not? I brought up a topic in desires and wants somwhere about, it is in the inner desire of dreaming for ourselves, we can find exactly what we require. Many here deny wants as some ego based attachment. The want is only attachment in my eyes when one holds on to tight and is not open to change. dreams/wants/Intention/desires can be likened to me as one and the same. Spirit obliging to bring the gifts before you to allign to that change is the next step. The key in this whole process is that many dream/want/desire/have good intentions for their life, but when spirit presents the platter of goodies to their liking, their are not always willing to do what is necessary to allign to the change with the new presented. As in your case, you were ready for change, the gifts from spirit to your liking now present themselves.

So in summing that all up in case I missed out on something or contridicted myself. I will just add. I dream, my life unfolds, I am open to change, I become........I expand and continue to become.....and as I dream I unfold in perfect sychronsitic order of spirits design...I am a creator born into the creation of life itself.

It takes me to an affirmation I once used.

I trust the process of my life unfolding as one with my creator.

[God-Like]

a life marked by depth can only be cultivated by protracted periods of time spent in solitude, quieteness, and obscurity.


Hi S.S.

I have experienced what can be attained within many years of solitude and what is contained within such an environment cannot be attained within the hustle and bustle of busyness / manyness .

Each state contain experience which allows depth to be had .

x daz x

[BlueSky]

thankyou for sharing James. Ah you have moved into the space where the soul purpose is being revealed to you with new eyes of understanding. what comes through your words for me is that space of connecting to our soul path at each point of change. When we become restless for change and we remain in a circumstance, we can often recognise what we want, but not always how it might be done. It feels to me that in your want, the universal soul allignment obliged with you to help you move into soul purpose in ways with that allign to your hearts wishes. Intersting how that works James, is it not? I brought up a topic in desires and wants somwhere about, it is in the inner desire of dreaming for ourselves, we can find exactly what we require. Many here deny wants as some ego based attachment. The want is only attachment in my eyes when one holds on to tight and is not open to change. dreams/wants/Intention/desires can be likened to me as one and the same. Spirit obliging to bring the gifts before you to allign to that change is the next step. The key in this whole process is that many dream/want/desire/have good intentions for their life, but when spirit presents the platter of goodies to their liking, their are not always willing to do what is necessary to allign to the change with the new presented. As in your case, you were ready for change, the gifts from spirit to your liking now present themselves.

So in summing that all up in case I missed out on something or contridicted myself. I will just add. I dream, my life unfolds, I am open to change, I become........I expand and continue to become.....and as I dream I unfold in perfect sychronsitic order of spirits design...I am a creator born into the creation of life itself.

It takes me to an affirmation I once used.

I trust the process of my life unfolding as one with my creator.

Thank you..............it's all very interesting right now. I quess I am hoping that of the 3 choices presented to me, that 2 will fall thru and then I can get on with doing what is necessary instead of wondering what I am "suppose" to do.

Blessings, James

[Xan]

Yep... dropping off the 'hoping' and 'supposed to' will help a lot.


Xan

[BlueSky]

Yep... dropping off the 'hoping' and 'supposed to' will help a lot.


Xan


lol.

The thing is Xan.........life is clearly asking me what do I want and for me to accept that life works this way suggests that I should have goals, which are in a sense hopes and dreams.
Something about me resists that. Maybe it is conditioning. Maybe something deeper.
I'm sure that when this is over, I'll understand more but for now it is simple...life is asking me what do I want, and I don't know how to answer...lol because what I want is what ever is best for me and my family and all of life itself.

Blessings, James

[silent whisper]

Thank you..............it's all very interesting right now. I quess I am hoping that of the 3 choices presented to me, that 2 will fall thru and then I can get on with doing what is necessary instead of wondering what I am "suppose" to do.

Blessings, James


Yes in becoming...you become....three into one doesnt go does it? Or does it?

[BlueSky]

Yes in becoming...you become....three into one doesnt go does it? Or does it?

The thing is, and where we differ, is that i don't believe or not believe in a "soul path".
This difference leaves you knowing what to do and leaves me simply observing what is happening.........for now............:smile:

It really boils down to "what are wants". You see them as the souls desires manifesting. I don't know what to make of them cuz I never really had had a choice before such as this.
james

[silent whisper]

The thing is, and where we differ, is that i don't believe or not believe in a "soul path".
This difference leaves you knowing what to do and leaves me simply observing what is happening.........for now............:smile:

It really boils down to "what are wants". You see them as the souls desires manifesting. I don't know what to make of them cuz I never really had had a choice before such as this.
james


I never box myself in...my soul path ensures it....:)

[BlueSky]

I never box myself in...my soul path ensures it....:)

But see, to me, having a belief in a soul path is boxing oneself in.

It becomes something for the mind to grasp.

I mean no disrespect...you know that.....we are simply having a discussion. I am not trying to convince you that we have no soul path. I don't know that we do or that we don't.
I know that there is nothing to know. I'm just sharing what having life ask me what do I want feels like to me. It rocks my world.


Blessings, James

[silent whisper]

Pehaps WS I have been asked...and I know what it feels like...and in my rocking......I choose to use soul path as an expression of where I am now.

To clarify further...my soul path is freedom...to be whatever I want to be...complete.......so if soul is freedom...I am walking the freedom path...its quite amazing really...to be anything you want to be...

[silent whisper]

And having spirit supporting me always....:)

[BlueSky]

Yes I suppose true freedom would include freedom to have wants or beliefs.
It justs sounds odd........

Blessings and thank you............

[silent whisper]

Yes I suppose true freedom would include freedom to have wants or beliefs.
It justs sounds odd........

Blessings and thank you............


How things sound is not always how they really are...In this space of freedom I speak from. I am simply free from the shackles that bind me. My heart leads me now in love and support of all my choices..And without fear most of my choices are coming from a pureness of heart...I say most...what lands in the other bit.....is the freedom to expand and grow through those choices..in trust of whatever they are and where they lead me.

[BlueSky]

How things sound is not always how they really are...In this space of freedom I speak from. I am simply free from the shackles that bind me. My heart leads me now in love and support of all my choices..And without fear most of my choices are coming from a pureness of heart...I say most...what lands in the other bit.....is the freedom to expand and grow through those choices..in trust of whatever they are and where they lead me.

I must admit that I hear you but it doesn't sit right for whatever reason.
In fact I am starting to wonder if I am making something out of nothing.

In other words.........3 choices presented themselves............period.

Thanks for the discussion...................blessings, James

[silent whisper]

I must admit that I hear you but it doesn't sit right for whatever reason.
In fact I am starting to wonder if I am making something out of nothing.

In other words.........3 choices presented themselves............period.

Thanks for the discussion...................blessings, James


Thats ok James..I am glad you knew when to end it...take care..

[Xan]

The thing is Xan.........life is clearly asking me what do I want and for me to accept that life works this way suggests that I should have goals, which are in a sense hopes and dreams.
Something about me resists that. Maybe it is conditioning. Maybe something deeper.
I'm sure that when this is over, I'll understand more but for now it is simple...life is asking me what do I want, and I don't know how to answer...lol because what I want is what ever is best for me and my family and all of life itself.
James, I'm suggesting that maybe what you want can't be figured out in your mind, nor is it a 'should'.
Perhaps it's built-in... inherent within the being who came into this body, family and world.
Something like a soul purpose which you may discover, if you don't mind that phrase.
Just wondering.


Xan

[Xan]

to me, having a belief in a soul path is boxing oneself in.

Yes... having a 'belief' in it would be a trap.

However, genuinely living it out is entirely liberating.


Xan

[BlueSky]

James, I'm suggesting that maybe what you want can't be figured out in your mind, nor is it a 'should'.
Perhaps it's built-in... inherent within the being who came into this body, family and world.
Something like a soul purpose which you may discover, if you don't mind that phrase.
Just wondering.


Xan





I don't know Xan. All I know is that my life has been rearranged and if I study it, it is exactly what I wanted.
It has been rearranged to provide a way to work toward what I want and it has provided for me 3 choices each represent what I want.
That's all I know and it's odd to observe life happening so clearly with this purpose and question to and for me.
Life is asking...What do I want where james would simply push the question aside and take the road of accepting life as it comes.
The thing is it is coming with a choice and that throws me a little.
Trying to find a reason or a place to grasp why this is happening seems counter productive.
I could come up with 3 or 4 very conflicting reasons in seconds......lol
I have a choice to continue my life the way I think I want in regards to how I spend my working day where it has always been the opposite.

Do you have goals Xan? Do you have hopes and dreams?
Imagine coming to the understanding that life is just happening and not to anyone personally and then being clearly presented by life to a you "personally" with a choice (and a way) to continue it the way you want....for no seeming reason other than to allow you to live life the way you want.
If you have hopes and goals and dreams then this exercise won't make sense to you in so far as understanding where i am.
I hope that makes some sense.....
Blessings, James

[Xan]

No... I have no hopes or goals.
I do have an overriding intention... to serve the grace of love itself.
From this life just evolves in that direction... happens, as you say.


Xan

[BlueSky]

No... I have no hopes or goals.
I do have an overriding intention... to serve the grace of love itself.
From this life just evolves in that direction... happens, as you say.


Xan


Does it evolves/happen with choices? I'm talking "big" choices.

[Xan]

Ummm... I haven't really made a choice like you're talking about for a very long time.
Still, I don't see it as something you would need to sort out in your mind but maybe allow to arise in your quietness , if you know what I mean.
My next step always becomes obvious at the right time, so I don't think about it much.


Xan

[BlueSky]

Ummm... I haven't really made a choice like you're talking about for a very long time.
Still, I don't see it as something you would need to sort out in your mind but maybe allow to arise in your quietness , if you know what I mean.

My next step always becomes obvious at the right time, so I don't think about it much.


Xan


I agree...just give it space to be....however it seems my next step is to realize that my next step is whatever i want it to be..........lol

James

[Xan]

Well.. that all depends on who you mean by "I"... ha ha...


Xan

[silent whisper]

I agree...just give it space to be....however it seems my next step is to realize that my next step is whatever i want it to be..........lol

James


James here are your choices there all great...are they not? you cant go wrong..........its not all down hill......its all up hill...and the view is always better the higher you climb...:)