Does darkness try to prevent someone's evolution?

[Usako]

I am speaking from personal experiences here...

I am not still able to decide if to believe in the Devil, or believe in less evolved beings who preffer evil ways...I'm on the fence. But either way I believe that there must be some kind of darkness that puts blocks into the path of someone who might accomplish great things with their lives or is on the road of having a spiritual awakening.

Is there something that tries to prevents this from happening?

In my case sometimes it feels like when I am starting going towards the path of enlightenment something comes and puts a stop to it, even bringing the worst of me out. It could be the Ego, but at times it feels like something greater.

Could there be some force that want to prevent people's advancement into the Light?

[Gracey]

I have been wondering the exact same thing today, curious to see where this thread leads.

[psychoslice]

I think that so called darkness can only change your evolution in Consciousness, if we let it, when we realize that the so called darkness is just, darkness, it then loses its hold over us. When we are in the light of truth, darkness disappears.

[Xan]

I wouldn't call it "darkness" because it's sort of ambiguous.

But there are negative entities and negative minds that not only resist openness in themselves, but fight against the increase of awareness and light in the world in very devious ways. I know some myself.

This is not a call for fear but for awareness in pure love itself... which not a just a nice idea but real, though subtle, power.


Xan

[TzuJanLi]

Greetings..

I wouldn't call it "darkness" because it's sort of ambiguous.

But there are negative entities and negative minds that not only resist openness in themselves, but fight against the increase of awareness and light in the world in very devious ways. I know some myself.

This is not a call for fear but for awareness in pure love itself... which not a just a nice idea but real, though subtle, power.


Xan
Equally ambiguous.. just sayin'..

Be well..

[Xan]

Awareness in pure love and its power is only ambiguous until you experience it for yourself.


Xan

[psychoslice]

Awareness in pure love and its power is only ambiguous until you experience it for yourself.


Xan
Yes so true, but as soon as we open our mouth up, its ambiguous.

[Humm]

The archetypal metaphor of light works the same as vision - Light is what illuminates in consciousness.

Conversely, darkness is un-knowingness, un-understanding - ambiguousness.

[Humm]

Yes so true, but as soon as we open our mouth up, its ambiguous.
What does this mean? Clearly if understanding is in consciousness, then it is un-ambiguous within. We either are able to point the way conceptually, or not, but once experienced, remains experienced.

[Silver]

The archetypal metaphor of light works the same as vision - Light is what illuminates in consciousness.

Conversely, darkness is un-knowingness, un-understanding - ambiguousness.

Doesn't that seem like a sort of superstition?

[Humm]

Doesn't that seem like a sort of superstition?
To some. ..

[psychoslice]

What does this mean? Clearly if understanding is in consciousness, then it is un-ambiguous within. We either are able to point the way conceptually, or not, but once experienced, remains experienced.
When one has awakened and experienced their inner Being in Consciousness, the experience itself is not what is experienced, the experience is always secondary to what IS. But try to tell other of that experience, that is not what IS, like you said, we can point others to what IS, but the pointing is not what IS either, the finger pointing to the moon, isn't the moon.

[Humm]

When one has awakened and experienced their inner Being in Consciousness, the experience itself is not what is experienced, the experience is always secondary to what IS. But try to tell other of that experience, that is not what IS, like you said, we can point others to what IS, but the pointing is not what IS either, the finger pointing to the moon, isn't the moon.
Spirituality 101.

Let's get over it and move on.

[psychoslice]

Spirituality 101.

Let's get over it and move on.
I'm already over it, and moved on long ago.:hug3:

[TzuJanLi]

Greetings..

Awareness in pure love and its power is only ambiguous until you experience it for yourself.


XanI have experienced it for myself, and you cannot label darkness as 'ambiguous' without comprehending the balance of 'ambiguous-ness' related to 'awareness in pure love".. they are inseparable contrasting principles of the same happening, we/us/Life.. otherwise, you are simply expressing a preference..

Be well..

[Humm]

I'm already over it, and moved on long ago.:hug3:
You da Man PS. :hug:

[Humm]

I have experienced it for myself, and you cannot label darkness as 'ambiguous' without comprehending the balance of 'ambiguous-ness' related to 'awareness in pure love".. they are inseparable contrasting principles of the same happening, we/us/Life.. otherwise, you are simply expressing a preference.

Doesn't sound like you've experienced 'awareness in pure love' to me - it sounds to me like you want what you experienced to be 'awareness in pure love' when it plainly wasn't.. . otherwise, you would express preferring welcome in open recognition.

[SunMist]

Could there be some force that want to prevent people's advancement into the Light?

I have had a number of experiences that make me wonder about this too. There is one explanation that made a little sense to me. Adyashanti is a teacher who talks a lot about the enlightenment process and what happens afterward as well. He says that it is a process most of the time rather than a one shot transformation. As one transforms the unenlightened parts of the self surge up to also be transformed - this can be an experience of the inner dark parts of yourself coming to light. Parts which were quietly repressed suddenly causing trouble because now the light starts to shine on them too.

Next here's where I extrapolate a bit.....if the outer is also a reflection of the inner then someone expanding their light would also attract outer darkness in the same way. That darkness too comes forward to either be transformed or interfere with the light in the person who is transforming. This could be anything from entities to the unenlightened parts inside of other people.

[silent whisper]

I am speaking from personal experiences here...

I am not still able to decide if to believe in the Devil, or believe in less evolved beings who preffer evil ways...I'm on the fence. But either way I believe that there must be some kind of darkness that puts blocks into the path of someone who might accomplish great things with their lives or is on the road of having a spiritual awakening.

Is there something that tries to prevents this from happening?

In my case sometimes it feels like when I am starting going towards the path of enlightenment something comes and puts a stop to it, even bringing the worst of me out. It could be the Ego, but at times it feels like something greater.

Could there be some force that want to prevent people's advancement into the Light?


Yeah from personal experience their is a "light force" that once we reach a certain level of attainment in spiritual growth, the blocks or barriers are simply for us to go deeper within to clear out lots of remaining gunk...the light force as I have learned are like little gremlins, who are ensuring you create a solid foundation that cant be invaded by anything...not even gremlins...and the other point I might note is that the stop to the advancement is sometimes to come back down to reality and put into practice all that you have learned....sometimes those wanting to advance forget their is a physical reality that is calling as well.......just my own thoughts of course...

[Gem]

Doesn't sound like you've experienced 'awareness in pure love' to me - it sounds to me like you want what you experienced to be 'awareness in pure love' when it plainly wasn't.. . otherwise, you would express preferring welcome in open recognition.

The dilema as I see it is, when this preference is given a lot of importance, then pushed upon other people, it can only be of detriment, and the purpose it serves is not bred of kindness... it serves to elate one's self by making comparisons to another, but this elation is only founded on the lower denominator which validates it.

[psychoslice]

The dilema as I see it is, when this preference is given a lot of importance, then pushed upon other people, it can only be of detriment, and the purpose it serves is not bred of kindness... it serves to elate one's self by making comparisons to another, but this elation is only founded on the lower denominator which validates it.
But doesn't it just seem to be a comparison to the ignorant ?, oh no what have I done lol.

[Gem]

But doesn't it just seem to be a comparison to the ignorant?

I don't know. lol

[psychoslice]

I don't know. lol
He He, good one, I owe you a coke lol.

[TzuJanLi]

Greetings..

The dilema as I see it is, when this preference is given a lot of importance, then pushed upon other people, it can only be of detriment, and the purpose it serves is not bred of kindness... it serves to elate one's self by making comparisons to another, but this elation is only founded on the lower denominator which validates it.
My intention is clarity, it is preferable to thinking i have the authority to tell others what is or isn't so.. though, i am honored to be the mirror from time to time..

Be well..

[MrNiceGuy]

For me the darkness only pushes me further into the light.

[Squatchit]

For me the darkness only pushes me further into the light.
:smile:

And for me, I'm a big fan of darkness. Light can be glaring. I hate ceiling lights. Soft light is OK. Candlelight is nice.

But if I've no physical body to be worrying about falling over stuff, then give me pitch black any day. I'm drawn towards it. The unknown, the surprise, the comfort I get as the black envelops me utterly and totally. The anticipation. Darkness is like the moment before 'something'. It's the possibility. And I think it's delicious. I could wallow in it for days.

[Silver]

I see nothing wrong with those sentiments about darkness. It's what allows us to sleep, perchance to dream (heehee) and to allow our bodies to rest and heal and repair....iow soothing.

[3dnow]

Some entities installed a spark-based language system on me and other systems.

It is there to deceive me it is clearly evil.

They even tried to send me to paradise. I was very angry when I understood what happened, someone (faking God) said: Son you wanted it. :D

They have sense of humor at least.

They are humans.

3d

[skygazer]

I am speaking from personal experiences here...
In my case sometimes it feels like when I am starting going towards the path of enlightenment something comes and puts a stop to it, even bringing the worst of me out. It could be the Ego, but at times it feels like something greater.

Could there be some force that want to prevent people's advancement into the Light?

Ego gets in the way, but you are right in suspecting there is more at play.

There IS something greater. Evil entities have vested interest in keeping us from the light. It is their contract.
Ours, is to love them and thank them for keeping us on our toes.

[sound]

These quotes might be helpful ...

Devils and demons have no objective existence. They have always represented, again, portions of mankind’s own psychological reality that to some extent s/he had not assimilated ... but in a schizophrenic kind of expression, projected instead, outward from him/herself ~Seth-Jane Roberts


In your terms of time, man has always projected unassimilated psychological elements of his own personality outward, but in much earlier times he did this using a multitudinous variety of images, personifications, gods, goddesses, demons and devils, good spirits and bad~Seth-Jane Roberts

[sound]

Doesn't sound like you've experienced 'awareness in pure love' to me - it sounds to me like you want what you experienced to be 'awareness in pure love' when it plainly wasn't.. . otherwise, you would express preferring welcome in open recognition.
Then neither does this just quietly ...

[Humm]

The dilema as I see it is, when this preference is given a lot of importance, then pushed upon other people, it can only be of detriment, and the purpose it serves is not bred of kindness... it serves to elate one's self by making comparisons to another, but this elation is only founded on the lower denominator which validates it.
In the compassion topic I talked about how one can have compassion for others but that does not keep one from protecting oneself or others - it does not keep one from choosing to preserve oneself when threatened - in fact, that is the basis for it.

Your statement here says I am pushing a preference upon other people, which can never be good, coming from self interest, and a valuation of myself above others. I agree with the principle if not the application.

I'm not the one who brought up 'preference' to dismiss another's view, Tzu did in his accusation. Why does Tzu get a pass for making his comparisons and judgements, but you nail anyone who disagrees with it?

IMO, The basis for true morality isn't having a dogmatic preference for one or the other or neither (which IS ALSO a preference, and a negative in any but the most extreme circumstances), but a valuation based on the innate sanctity of all expressions of the universe. Just like compassion, however, that does not keep me from discerning which expression is repressive, and which is expanding and nurturing in nature - in fact, that is the basis for it.

[IsleWalker]

The archetypal metaphor of light works the same as vision - Light is what illuminates in consciousness.

Conversely, darkness is un-knowingness, un-understanding - ambiguousness.

I think this whole idea--of splitting ourselves, all of our experiences--into this duality and labeling half of it "bad" --is exactly the problem.

We forget that the "splitting" into light and dark was done just as a tool for understanding--but they both belong to us.

The purpose of "negative", aggressive or destructive energy is to tear down so new can be built, is to provide the energy needed for the process of creation.

These are both our own creations and as soon as we dis-allow that they could have come from "us"--either globally or individually--creates the problems.

Without darkness, light doesn't illuminate.

Isle - Lora

[Humm]

I think this whole idea--of splitting ourselves, all of our experiences--into this duality and labeling half of it "bad" --is exactly the problem.

We forget that the "splitting" into light and dark was done just as a tool for understanding--but they both belong to us.

The purpose of "negative", aggressive or destructive energy is to tear down so new can be built, is to provide the energy needed for the process of creation.

These are both our own creations and as soon as we dis-allow that they could have come from "us"--either globally or individually--creates the problems.

Without darkness, light doesn't illuminate.

Isle - Lora
I don't see that as disagreeing with anything I said.

I would go on to say that the 'splitting' has it's appropriate purpose and use, just the same as the higher perspective, just as you mention - a tool for understanding.

The mistake is dogmatically cleaving to this or that or to dogmatically cling to the idea that then 'this or that' should also be avoided.

Existence must be met with understanding, and appropriate responses discerned and actions taken. Morality and beliefs serve as a necessary guide, but to mistake the map for the road is to again step out of actuality and into dogmatic reaction.

[gentledove]

Without darkness, light doesn't illuminate.

I don't believe darkness is a thing which causes light to illuminate...darkness is the absence of a thing, namely light.

How can the absence of something cause the thing?

Because we're limited beings the absence of something can cause us to realize it's presence with more piquancy. For instance starvation can bring great joy when presented with even the smallest morsel. It can seem a banquet for which we are grateful.

Darkness can cause even the smallest light to appear bright by comparison. Individually we are such small lights. In the great Light our individuality is lost, but in the darkness we shine out like stars.

Peace:hello:

[Humm]

I don't believe darkness is a thing which causes light to illuminate...darkness is the absence of a thing, namely light.

How can the absence of something cause the thing?

Because we're limited beings the absence of something can cause us to realize it's presence with more piquancy. For instance starvation can bring great joy when presented with even the smallest morsel. It can seem a banquet for which we are grateful.

Darkness can cause even the smallest light to appear bright by comparison. Individually we are such small lights. In the great Light our individuality is lost, but in the darkness we shine out like stars.

Peace:hello:
On the spiritual side, I agree.

There is Nothing and there is Something.

Darkness is Nothing. Light is Something.

We exist - we are Something. Anything that is Not - that is Darkness.

We are - Existence is - a Light in the Darkness - a Light of Creation - a Light of Love.

[IsleWalker]

I don't see that as disagreeing with anything I said.

I would go on to say that the 'splitting' has it's appropriate purpose and use, just the same as the higher perspective, just as you mention - a tool for understanding.

The mistake is dogmatically cleaving to this or that or to dogmatically cling to the idea that then 'this or that' should also be avoided.

Existence must be met with understanding, and appropriate responses discerned and actions taken. Morality and beliefs serve as a necessary guide, but to mistake the map for the road is to again step out of actuality and into dogmatic reaction.
Humm--

Guess I *assumed* and we know what that makes of u & me (well, me!). I assumed that "un-knowingness" and un-understanding" implied "bad" things.

Lora

[Humm]

Humm--

Guess I *assumed* and we know what that makes of u & me (well, me!). I "assumed" that un-knowingness and un-consciousness" were meant to be bad things.

Lora
I don't call them bad, I call them a starting point. :wink:

[Swami Chihuahuananda]

this one clarifies for me

IV. THE HERMETIC PRINCIPLE OF POLARITY.

"Everything is Dual; everything has poles; everything has its pair of opposites; like and unlike are the same; opposites are identical in nature, but different in degree; extremes meet; all truths are but half-truths; all paradoxes may be reconciled." — The Kybalion.

This Principle embodies the truth that "everything is dual"; "everything has two poles"; "everything has its pair of opposites," all of which were old Hermetic axioms. It explains the old paradoxes, that have perplexed so many, which have been stated as follows: "Thesis and anti-thesis are identical in nature, but different in degree"; "opposites are the same, differing only in degree"; "the pairs of opposites may be reconciled"; "extremes meet"; "everything is and isn't, at the same time"; "all truths are but half-truths"; "every truth is half-false"; "there are two sides to everything," etc., etc., etc. It explains that in everything there are two poles, or opposite aspects, and that "opposites" are really only the two extremes of the same thing, with many varying degrees between them. To illustrate: Heat and Cold, although "opposites," are really the same thing, the differences consisting merely of degrees of the same thing. Look at your thermometer and see if you can discover where "heat" terminates and "cold" begins! There is no such thing as "absolute heat" or "absolute cold" — the two terms "heat" and "cold" simply indicate varying degrees of the same thing, and that "same thing" which manifests as "heat" and "cold" is merely a form, variety, and rate of Vibration. So "heat" and "cold" are simply the "two poles" of that which we call "Heat" — and the phenomena attendant thereupon are manifestations of the Principle of Polarity. The same Principle manifests in the case of "Light and Darkness," which are the same thing, the difference consisting of varying degrees between the two poles of the phenomena. Where does "darkness" leave off, and "light" begin? What is the difference between "Large and Small"? Between "Hard and Soft"? Between "Black and White"? Between "Sharp and Dull"? Between "Noise and Quiet"? Between "High and Low"? Between "Positive and Negative"? The Principle of Polarity explains these paradoxes, and no other Principle can supersede it. The same Principle operates on the Mental Plane. Let us take a radical and extreme example — that of "Love and Hate," two mental states apparently totally different. And yet there are degrees of hate and degrees of Love, and a middle point in which we use the terms "Like or Dislike," which shade into each other so gradually that sometimes we are at a loss to know whether we "like" or "dislike" or "neither." And all are simply degrees of the same thing, as you will see if you will but think a moment. And, more than this (and considered of more importance by the Hermetists), it is possible to change the vibrations of hate to the vibrations of Love, in one's own mind, and in the minds of others. Many of you, who read these lines, have had personal experiences of the involuntary rapid transition from Love to Hate, and the reverse, in your own ease and that of others. And you will therefore realize the possibility of this being accomplished by the use of the Will, by means of the Hermetic formulas. "Good and Evil" are but the poles of the same thing, and the Hermetist understands the art of transmuting Evil into Good, by means of an application of the Principle of Polarity. In short, the "Art of Polarization" becomes a phase of "Mental Alchemy"

[IsleWalker]

Good clarification, Dar. But then I get to point where I feel that differentiating the dualities becomes sort of a useless effort. First comes the Whole. Parts are only one way of looking at it. Unless it's a useful perspective, why bother?

Lora

[TzuJanLi]

Greetings..

Good clarification, Dar. But then I get to point where I feel that differentiating the dualities becomes sort of a useless effort. First comes the Whole. Parts are only one way of looking at it. Unless it's a useful perspective, why bother?

Lora
Hi Lora: Agreed, why differentiate.. duality is how the Whole experiences its existence, duality is neither less nor more than the Whole.. it IS the Whole, Creating itself experientially.. in that, there is purpose and intention, to 'experience'.. this/that, light/dark, love/hate, good/bad, matter only in that they are the stage, the vehicles, through which the Whole experiences its own existence.. if there were not the curiosity, the question, "What AM I", none of this/that would exist.. so, at some level, the unbalanced preferences add the dynamics of change and add the movement of 'experience'..

With the Super Bowl coming up, some of the guys, maybe gals too, might understand this.. i do not have a favorite 'team', and i never care who wins a game.. but, i do enjoy the game itself.. same with Life, i have no interest in being right, or winning, but i choose to experience it well.. so, sometimes i ask folks if they're 'sure' it 'has' to be this way or that way, isn't it equally valid to just 'be'..

Be well.. and remember, i chose my 'signature line' because it works..

[Gem]

In the compassion topic I talked about how one can have compassion for others but that does not keep one from protecting oneself or others - it does not keep one from choosing to preserve oneself when threatened - in fact, that is the basis for it.

Your statement here says I am pushing a preference upon other people, which can never be good, coming from self interest, and a valuation of myself above others. I agree with the principle if not the application.

I'm not the one who brought up 'preference' to dismiss another's view, Tzu did in his accusation. Why does Tzu get a pass for making his comparisons and judgements, but you nail anyone who disagrees with it?

IMO, The basis for true morality isn't having a dogmatic preference for one or the other or neither (which IS ALSO a preference, and a negative in any but the most extreme circumstances), but a valuation based on the innate sanctity of all expressions of the universe. Just like compassion, however, that does not keep me from discerning which expression is repressive, and which is expanding and nurturing in nature - in fact, that is the basis for it.

Sure it's an unbalanced preference because there's a desire for love and hatred for pain, but to love is to hurt, so where's the preference gone?

[TzuJanLi]

Greetings..

I'm not the one who brought up 'preference' to dismiss another's view, Tzu did in his accusation. Why does Tzu get a pass for making his comparisons and judgements, but you nail anyone who disagrees with it?

Sure it's an unbalanced preference because there's a desire for love and hatred for pain, but to love is to hurt, so where's the preference gone?
Is Humm still going on about me? the same Humm that talks about letting go, and Love? It is SO liberating to let go.....

Be well..

[Moonglow]

Hello,

It does appear to be a choice or preference as to how one decides how or whether to label one thing and another.

I do agree without the one thing how can someone recognize the other.

It seems the world we live in is of these opposites or contrasting elements.

We have lived with them through out our existence and still seem to evolve in some manner.

What is seen in complete darkness? Nothing right? Is there something to fear from nothing? (just presenting a thought here)

IMO, it is as one creates to be for him/her self.

Not saying there are not some elements and ways of acting that can be threatening and uncomfortable. Just that it can be how one chooses to react to these or not, IMO.

Peace

[Xan]

Greetings..

I have experienced it for myself, and you cannot label darkness as 'ambiguous' without comprehending the balance of 'ambiguous-ness' related to 'awareness in pure love".. they are inseparable contrasting principles of the same happening, we/us/Life.. otherwise, you are simply expressing a preference..

Be well..
I cannot? hmmm...

"Darkness" as it is often used in spiritual circles is a catch-all term for "what we are afraid of, is negative in intention, and/or we don't like."

Not saying those are wrong definitions, it's just usually not very clear in people's minds.

The actual experience of darkness is clear and unambiguous. Same with pure love itself.

And in fact they are not opposites. There are many forms of darkness, for instance nighttime, the dark mother light and outer space which are not negative, nor are they the absence of love. As I see it, this absence only occurs in the closed heart and mind.


Xan

[Xan]

to love is to hurt


In relationships people who love each may also hurt each other, but it isn't always that way

and the love is not what does the hurting, it's other stuff added on or taken away.


Xan

[sound]

to love is to hurt


In relationships people who love each may also hurt each other ... it isn't always that way ...

and the love is not what does the hurting, it's other stuff added on or taken away.



I agree wholeheartedly ... it is a misconception that 'love' hurts ... in my experience anyway ...

[Moonglow]

to love is to hurt


In relationships people who love each may also hurt each other, but it isn't always that way

and the love is not what does the hurting, it's other stuff added on or taken away.


Xan

Hello Xan,

This rings true with me upon reading it. Nice insight.

Thank You

[Gem]

When you seperate love from your life and divide into into big and little 'L' you can imagine one isn't the same as another, and this is probably done because there still exists an aversion for love's pain.

[Xan]

I agree... when people have felt pain along with love it can be a real turn-off to love.


Xan

[TzuJanLi]

Greetings..

I cannot? hmmm...It sorts feels uncomfortable doesn't it, when people 'tell' you what is or isn't, or what is true or not, or what you can or can't do.. but, that particular 'you' was a general reference, as i am aware of your stated position..


"Darkness" as it is often used in spiritual circles is a catch-all term for "what we are afraid of, is negative in intention, and/or we don't like."

Not saying those are wrong definitions, it's just usually not very clear in people's minds."Love" and "Light", as often used in spiritual circles, are catch-all terms for what "we want to believe", presented as a positive belief, to protect us from "what we are afraid of"..


The actual experience of darkness is clear and unambiguous. Same with pure love itself.Will you clarify the distinctions you are making between "darkness" and "pure love" in the above quote?

And in fact they are not opposites. There are many forms of darkness, for instance nighttime, the dark mother light and outer space which are not negative, nor are they the absence of love. As I see it, this absence only occurs in the closed heart and mind.


Xan
Will you explain what you mean by the "dark mother light"?

As unpopular as it is to say in a Spiritual Forum, "Love" is a purely human value.. a 'word' that people attach sentimental meanings to and embellish and redefine into arguable inconsistencies and ambiguities, and.. "other stuff added on or taken away", as in the sentiment that 'Love is all there is', well.. apparently, it is absent in the "closed heart and mind".. which begs the question, how do you define the "closed heart and mind"?

Aside from all of that, when you, in general, not you specifically, Xan, but it could be a useful introspection.. when 'you' are converting the experiences you understand as Love into words for describing your understandings of those experiences, what might happen if you didn't make the 'words and descriptions'? what might happen if you chose to convert the experiences into actions and deeds that represented your understandings? what might happen if we told stories about those actions and deeds, rather than merry-go-round of finding different ways to embellish or redefine the word 'Love'? Maybe the stories might inspire people to experience rather than talk..

Be well..

[Xan]

The actual experience of darkness is clear and unambiguous. Same with pure love itself.

Will you clarify the distinctions you are making between "darkness" and "pure love" in the above quote?

I'm not. Actual experience of either is clear and not ambiguous.

Will you explain what you mean by the "dark mother light"?

Another clear experience I used to have quite often, which seems ambiguous when put into words... like Robbie said.


As for putting love into action... umm.... a forum is a place where words are pretty much our only actions, except for posting pictures.


Xan

[TzuJanLi]

Greetings..


[COLOR=Navy]As for putting love into action... umm.... a forum is a place where words are pretty much our only actions, except for posting pictures.


Xan
In the hopes of clarifying..
Aside from all of that, when you, in general, not you specifically, Xan, but it could be a useful introspection.. when 'you' are converting the experiences you understand as Love into words for describing your understandings of those experiences, what might happen if you didn't make the 'words and descriptions'? what might happen if you chose to convert the experiences into actions and deeds that represented your understandings? what might happen if we told stories about those actions and deeds, rather than merry-go-round of finding different ways to embellish or redefine the word 'Love'? Maybe the stories might inspire people to experience rather than talk..
I understand the forum function.. it's the attachment to finding different ways to say the same thing, that "we're attached to the word Love", rather than sharing stories that are not dependent on a consensus of 'Love means this' to illustrate our understandings of Love as a function of our relationship with Life, that i am hinting at, hopefully..

Be well..

[Xan]

You don't like my way of expressing myself? ha ha ha ha ha


Xan

[n2mec]

For me, negative energy works in many ways. for example, a "black hole" which light can not excape from as it swallows up solar masses, but it is still all part of a universal human profile of what energy does. The movie Star Wars touch on the dark side of humanity. to know the light you must know the dark.

[TzuJanLi]

Greetings..

You don't like my way of expressing myself? ha ha ha ha ha


Xan
You will hear what you need to hear, Xan.. you aren't even willing to engage in potential, what 'might be possible', you're too concerned with image.. do you really think any of this is about 'you'?

Be well..

[silent whisper]

You don't like my way of expressing myself? ha ha ha ha ha


Xan


Its good one can laugh at ones own expression....

[silent whisper]

Greetings..


You will hear what you need to hear, Xan.. you aren't even willing to engage in potential, what 'might be possible', you're too concerned with image.. do you really think any of this is about 'you'?

Be well..


In the face of another laughing at oneself...the other opens poosibilities of some self relfection...and that is always a good thing...*I dare not laugh* for fear of being trapped in the humourous side of it all...

[Schurchy]

i believe that its more less of entities faults and more of our own. Not that we are negative, even though we exist on a plan of duality.

You see, most of the problem is vibrations. vibrations are pulled from emotional energy, positive energy results in higher vibrations, and negative energy results result in lower vibrations. This exists within the dimensional planes, with higher vibrations, it is easier for us to perform...more.."spiritual" activities.
Youc an help get rid of a block through meditation, by having higher vibrations.Sometiems you might wanna concentrate on your third eye to help induce a spiritual state. Blocks can also concur because, simply, the time is not ready yet. so the best thing to do, is just keep on meditating.

Good luck,
Jake

[Greenslade]

Could there be some force that want to prevent people's advancement into the Light?

It's all a matter of perspective - we are already in the Light. If we are Spirit on a human Journey then we have chosen not to see the whole spectrum of Light. The Light is composed of all the frequencies, much like the light from the sun that becomes a rainbow. All we can perceive as humans is two colours and perhaps a little bit either side.

There is little to stop you really from evolving, only yourself. The force is like a gatekeeper, if you are not ready nor prepared to 'defeat it' then you're not ready to go any further. If you see a fence then there will be a fence. The 'worst in you' is as much a part of you as is the 'best in you' - it's all you. What you do with it is entirely up to you, but you're never going to walk away from it and you can't make it go away by closing your eyes and counting to ten. We came from those lower frequencies of vibration and they're always going to be as much a part of our spectrum of Light as the higher frequencies.

If there is a darkness it's because we haven't shone our Light there yet. There are places where angels (and some Spiritual people) fear to tread, many choose to separate good and bad and never go to the bad places. They become dark - they make them dark. The darkness has its place in this Universe the same as everyone and everything else, there is no good and bad there is only shades of grey.

[Humm]

In the compassion topic I talked about how one can have compassion for others but that does not keep one from protecting oneself or others - it does not keep one from choosing to preserve oneself when threatened - in fact, that is the basis for it.

Your statement here says I am pushing a preference upon other people, which can never be good, coming from self interest, and a valuation of myself above others. I agree with the principle if not the application.

I'm not the one who brought up 'preference' to dismiss another's view, Tzu did in his accusation. Why does Tzu get a pass for making his comparisons and judgements, but you nail anyone who disagrees with it?

IMO, The basis for true morality isn't having a dogmatic preference for one or the other or neither (which IS ALSO a preference, and a negative in any but the most extreme circumstances), but a valuation based on the innate sanctity of all expressions of the universe. Just like compassion, however, that does not keep me from discerning which expression is repressive, and which is expanding and nurturing in nature - in fact, that is the basis for it.

Sure it's an unbalanced preference because there's a desire for love and hatred for pain, but to love is to hurt, so where's the preference gone?

Gem, I went to some pains to separate preference from perception, and then you did what you most often do which is just run right over the observation, explanation, and logic, and state your preference.

No, it is not a preference just because you say so, and no it is not a desire for love and a hatred of darkness just because you say so - on the contrary, what I see repeatedly in your posts is a complete disregard for any carefully articulated observation, explanation, and logic, and a stated preference for your own avoidance of healing and love, as glaringly stated in "to love is to hurt".

[Humm]

...As unpopular as it is to say in a Spiritual Forum, "Love" is a purely human value.. a 'word' that people attach sentimental meanings to and embellish and redefine into arguable inconsistencies and ambiguities, and.. "other stuff added on or taken away", as in the sentiment that 'Love is all there is', well.. apparently, it is absent in the "closed heart and mind".. which begs the question, how do you define the "closed heart and mind"?...
Love has no meaning beyond "a purely human value" to you because that is your only experience of it. You have no understanding or conception of the universe as a giving, Creating connection - and thus you impose your definition on it, and us.

Then you describe is with "closed heart and mind".

You speak of "arguable inconsistencies and ambiguities" but really there is only you - you ignore everything (and everyone) who can threaten that.

[Jyotir]

Hi Suikagirl,

The following link may have quite a bit of useful information within the 40+ pages of this chapter regarding your specific query.

Sri Aurobindo on Opposition of the Hostile Forces ( http://www.sriaurobindoashram.info/Content.aspx?ContentURL=/_StaticContent/SriAurobindoAshram/-09%20E-Library/-01%20Works%20of%20Sri%20Aurobindo/-01%20English/-01_SABCL/-24_Letters%20on%20Yoga_Volume-24/-31_Opposition%20of%20the%20Hostile%20Forces.htm )

Sri Aurobindo, "Letters on Yoga", Vol III, Part 4, Section VII, Opposition of the Hostile Forces

"Letters on Yoga" are answers to numerous questions asked by his disciples over a period of many years when Sri Aurobindo withdrew into silence and communicated by writing only. The personal content has been removed and the 'letters' organized by subject. In this case the chapter deals with a subject that is well known to seekers which becomes evident for many when they consciously engage in a deliberate spiritual practice. Previous to that nascent practice, these forces and movements were unconsciously assented to, forces that the being was acquired by, used by, and moved by, in what is seen by most as "normal" life. Part of awakening spiritually is arecognition and identification of the limited and limiting nature of these various consciousness in the being, and the subsequent binding, dissatisfying, frustrating results they produce in life - leading to a search for what will transform those very forces within the being.

At the time when the awakened seeker decides to surpass or transform these energies, there is resistance because these limited and limiting forces of specific consciousness presently operating in the being with tacit consent, will have to relinquish the sovereignty of that control - and it is control, as the being is conditioned and controlled by the lower nature although unknowingly for the most part. It is a conscious approach to spirituality which seeks to displace or transform the lower nature, which includes those forces that are part of the being which are comprised of 'intrinsically' limited, ignorant (of divinity) consciousness. These so-called 'lower consciousness' can and may be transformed into higher divine expressions within the being (the intention of spiritual practice, yoga), but that means seeking, identifying and surrendering to what is higher, vs a false phenomenal 'autonomy' which remains limited in ignorant activity on the physical plane.

Sri Aurobindo often makes clear the distinctions between methods and experiences his own "Integral Yoga", and various other practices, results and experiences of other paths, however there is much information of a general nature either explicit or by inference that may be useful. In particular, Sri Aurobindo not only delineates what constitutes these "hostile attacks" - their character, origin, forms - but he also indicates the various means and methods of countering, displacing and dispelling them, which is valuable in any spiritual practice (yoga).

~ J

[Humm]

Hi Suikagirl,

The following link may have quite a bit of useful information within the 40+ pages of this chapter regarding your specific query.

Sri Aurobindo on Opposition of the Hostile Forces ( http://www.sriaurobindoashram.info/Content.aspx?ContentURL=/_StaticContent/SriAurobindoAshram/-09%20E-Library/-01%20Works%20of%20Sri%20Aurobindo/-01%20English/-01_SABCL/-24_Letters%20on%20Yoga_Volume-24/-31_Opposition%20of%20the%20Hostile%20Forces.htm )

Sri Aurobindo, "Letters on Yoga", Vol III, Part 4, Section VII, Opposition of the Hostile Forces

"Letters on Yoga" are answers to numerous questions asked by his disciples over a period of many years when Sri Aurobindo withdrew into silence and communicated by writing only. The personal content has been removed and the 'letters' organized by subject. In this case the chapter deals with a subject that is well known to seekers which becomes evident for many when they consciously engage in a deliberate spiritual practice. Previous to that nascent practice, these forces and movements were unconsciously assented to, forces that the being was acquired by, used by, and moved by, in what is seen by most as "normal" life.

At the time when the seeker decides to surpass or transform these energies, there is resistance because these limited and limiting forces of specific consciousness presently operating in the being with tacit consent, will have to relinquish the sovereignty of that control - and it is control, as the being is conditioned and controlled by the lower nature although unknowingly for the most part. It is a conscious approach to spirituality which seeks to displace or transform the lower nature (which includes those forces that are part of the being which are comprised of 'intrinsically' limited, ignorant (of divinity) consciousness. These so-called 'lower consciousness' can and may be transformed into higher divine expressions within the being (the intention of spiritual practice, yoga), but that means seeking, identifying and surrendering to what is higher, vs a false phenomenal 'autonomy' which remains limited in ignorant activity on the physical plane.

Sri Aurobindo often makes clear the distinctions between methods and experiences his own "Integral Yoga", and various other practices, results and experiences of other paths, however there is much information of a general nature either explicit or by inference that may be useful. In particular, Sri Aurobindo not only delineates what constitutes these "hostile attacks" - their character, origin, forms - but he also indicates the means and methods of countering, displacing and dispelling them, which is valuable in any spiritual practice (yoga).

~ J



Thanks again J.

[Sundialed]

Negative and Positive are of equal strength. Both are there for us to evolve. The darkness that has plagued the once light filled Western side of the globe for the last 500 years needs to be unified with the light side, we need to become whole with our dark side. After that there will be no sides. Yes there are no sides always, but let's be real here, Columbus could have brought death or love, what do you think he choose? This place could have been a spiritual paradise, but since hate was brought we had to wait a cycle of 500 years until now, when the light takes over just as the darkness did back then. We will see how much humans will mitigate how much work the Earth will have to do. Timing is everything.

[Xan]

You don't like my way of expressing myself? ha ha ha ha ha

Its good one can laugh at ones own expression....


I'm laughing at all our self-righteousness, sw... when we think we know how someone is or should be. ha ha ha ha ha ha


Xan

[Xan]

Ssymbiotic Self : ...we need to become whole with our dark side. After that there will be no sides.

Yes... Therein ends duality and conflict. I am all of it, I Am one.


Xan

[silent whisper]

You don't like my way of expressing myself? ha ha ha ha ha

Its good one can laugh at ones own expression....


I'm laughing at all our self-righteousness, sw... when we think we know how someone is or should be. ha ha ha ha ha ha


Xan


Do you see us all with those eyes Xan....self righteous...that interests me.

[Xan]

Sometimes we act that way, eh?


Xan

[silent energy]

Here is a quote I like about light and darkness....

"This is the difference between the power of light and the power of darkness. That you can go into a pitch black room full of darkness, full of evil and light a little candle and instantly that darkness flees. But you can't do the opposite. You can't go into a well lit room full of truth, full of wisdom and righteousness and joy and health and harmony. You can't take any amount of darkness and go into that room and have any affect whatsoever." - Dr. Len Horowitz (a little editing by me)

[silent whisper]

Sometimes we act that way, eh?


Xan


Do we?....we can decide it is perceived...anyone can.

[Xan]

I don't decide all the forms of mind projections there are, and neither do you, sw.

What I choose is my response to what I see.


Xan

[silent whisper]

I don't decide all the forms of mind projections there are, and neither do you, sw.

What I choose is my response to what I see.


Xan


In my response I see...and share...as do you.

[silent whisper]

May I ask why you brought up mind projections? And in my questioning I am not taking away from you, just enquiring. The questioning doesnt have to be answered by you but I appreciate the flow on from this space, regardless of what it brings for me......I like to grow and learn through my seeing. Even when it is seen by another in their way. Sometimes for me it allows me to see others more clearly and of course myself....most times I am pleasantly surprised at my findings...of self...not always in good light either..

[silent whisper]

Ok I see I made a slip of word power....I put you in there, where normally I would not.....but then it opened up something for me...so its all good

Can we?....we can decide how we percieve it...anyone can.

[Xan]

As I see it, we can choose where we perceive from in ourselves.

Mostly the human world comes from the mind with its preconceptions, assumptions, expectations, evaluations and projections -

and maybe we can choose which mind set made of these that we come from at the moment.

Or we can shift into what one friend calls "the only real alternative"...

letting go into our quiet inner awareness without all that stuff.


Xan

[silent whisper]

Ah so when I perceive a question..instead of asking you...when I see something in you......I should ask myself..that same question...in what I see..because what I see may not be your perception..so if I ask myself......then my perception and answer matters...so why are we asking each other questions then? Why do they simply want to flow in the space of connetion? Perhaps what we see and perceive in another, we may feel in us a space that we want them to see and learn...in a self enquiring way..of course...is that wrong? Is that allowed?

Ok more thoughts...What I actually saw in that space of your saying we all self righteous....was that you percieve something in me that I dont see.......in myself...when I am just being me...you may not have directed at me......but in your notion of we are all....it felt liked it locked me into something I have no need to be locked into...and then of course I questioned you that you would see that way...Do not the eyes see that which is in themselves? Maybe I have never perceived myself as self righteous...self absorbed...self addressed...hmmmm If I look at myself now in that light...I could be self abosorbed.....but what am I self absorbed in? That is the question? which I will answer if and answer comes to me..for the next paragraph.

[TzuJanLi]

Greetings..

As I see it, we can choose where we perceive from in ourselves.

Mostly the human world comes from the mind with its preconceptions, assumptions, expectations, evaluations and projections -

and maybe we can choose which mind set made of these that we come from at the moment.

Or we can shift into what one friend calls "the only real alternative"...

letting go into our quiet inner awareness without all that stuff.


Xan
The "only real alternative"?.. how about just 'letting go', without the follow-on descriptions of what you think it should be? you know, "all that stuff"..

Be well..

[silent whisper]

Greetings..


The "only real alternative"?.. how about just 'letting go', without the follow-on descriptions of what you think it should be? you know, "all that stuff"..

Be well..


But isnt saying we are all self righteous...."all the stuff" ? Ok I will answer that...myself...yeah it is to me.

[silent whisper]

I think I am learning a new technique of self enquiry...I ask...I answer..now this could be interesting..what unfolds...

[silent whisper]

I do feel this talk has unearthed another layer..of some kind...not sure what....it feels like their is a link for me only...their is an intuitive connection to our words that we express and from my own experience, the words we express, even though they are just words..the intuitive connection to the space that we come through is exactly as they are from the space one holds within...in saying that it is no always apparent to the eye of the one expressing...but to the eye of one who intuits through the expression. When our words allign to the divine heart space..its all divinely alligned...and when its not it alligns itself in ways not always apparent to our eyes...


Now this has turned into a mass self enquiry for me......but that is ok I am fine with it..not sure where it is leading..?

[Xan]

The "only real alternative"?.. how about just 'letting go', without the follow-on descriptions of what you think it should be? you know, "all that stuff"..
Because, Bob, it's not just letting go that I'm talking about. It's another level of being that we may let go into. A letting go all the way through.

If someone has been there they may describe what it's like, so others might get inspired and appreciate their own glimpses more. Or not... your choice.


Xan

[TzuJanLi]

Greetings..

Because, Bob, it's not just letting go that I'm talking about. It's another level of being that we may let go into. A letting go all the way through.

If someone has been there they may describe what it's like, so others might get inspired and appreciate their own glimpses more. Or not... your choice.


Xan
That's just it, Xan.. there's no 'there', 'there' is is how you have interpreted your personal experience.. when one actually 'lets go', they let go of 'there', too.. if you're interested in inspiring others to have their own experiences, you might help them see for themselves.. rather than describing the "the only real alternative", as if their choice has to conform to your description to be 'real'..

Be well..

[silent whisper]

Because, Bob, it's not just letting go that I'm talking about. It's another level of being that we may let go into. A letting go all the way through.

If someone has been there they may describe what it's like, so others might get inspired and appreciate their own glimpses more. Or not... your choice.


Xan


His name his Bob...ok I learn something new. Like you mean like letting go of all the assumptions, misconceptions,past ideas,ingrained patterns..but speaking them so that it doesnt mean you are in that space but to simply show others that assumptions are ok..:wink: I wonder if assuming is part of the letting go process....could be..

OH hang on like when I hear you say Xan...."what you said"....I let it all go all the way through and then what comes through in my intutive connection, I simply dont respond..... but give you a glimpse....... describe it to inspire you to see what it is like and you get to appreciate yours......seems like we have come full circle.....to the original intutive connection I had...

[Xan]

That's just it, Xan.. there's no 'there', 'there' is is how you have interpreted your personal experience.. when one actually 'lets go', they let go of 'there', too.. if you're interested in inspiring others to have their own experiences, you might help them see for themselves.. rather than describing the "the only real alternative", as if their choice has to conform to your description to be 'real'..

Huh?

You don't approve of the way I express myself? ha ha ha ha ha ha


Xan

[silent whisper]

Is their an art of being there...that incorporates just being the self expression and the being without it being more than just being..... I will answer that myself..shortly...

[silent whisper]

Huh?

You don't approve of the way I express myself? ha ha ha ha ha ha


Xan


Did he say that? and once again you laugh at yourself in this light...*scratches head* but with a smiling face of course...

[silent whisper]

I just came out of a chat where my conflict with another over her choice of words intrigued me once more. For some reason their is a direct reference to her own epxerience where her words although have the contextual link of truth to the topic discussed come across with her own personal flavour of almost like a "firmness of mind". Its hard to articulate fully what it is..but I have been sensing it for so long. And it was not until today that in light of this topic of self expression that it dawned on me that both you and her Xan come across the same way. As I opened her further to see that it is not so exact...in her words of *exactness*...she saw herself in light of this...interesting it was the same lady whome I was having major seeing issues with over ego....

[silent whisper]

She is a good friend so I was glad I saw how it was for her and I...in light of this...I will now accept her as she is with more clarity in my own mind why it was coming through so strongly....

I apologize for my saturation on this topic, but I reallly valued the participation to understand and learn more of my own perceptions and seeing...along with others..

[TzuJanLi]

Greetings..

Huh?

You don't approve of the way I express myself? ha ha ha ha ha ha


Xan
You will hear what you need to hear, Xan.. you aren't even willing to engage in potential, what 'might be possible', you're too concerned with image.. do you really think any of this is about 'you'?

Be well..

[silent whisper]

Greetings..


You will hear what you need to hear, Xan.. you aren't even willing to engage in potential, what 'might be possible', you're too concerned with image.. do you really think any of this is about 'you'?

Be well..


Some interesting words that hold meaning to the issue that came to rise in my friend and my discussion. As it unfolded, I reached a space about standards with her in the unfolding. It was about making errors. Simple ones but always with a reason behind them. It is probably linked to personal standards I am thinking..or feeling..or whatever I do..:smile:

[Gem]

The dark side, isn't only symbolic, everyone has it... and people often deny there exists good and evil, but I think better to see what the terms really refer to.

A person has to have two sides, but where the person lives is the thing, because one can sink into a world of shadows all too easily, and everyone has the shadow in which to hide themselves.

between us, it doesn't matter so much, but as a person I believe that the intention to open the vessle of mind to the awareness of greater consciousness, and keep no secrets from 'God', will bring light upon these hidden recesses where to much shame has kept ugly truths secreted.

It comes with a love, for it is true the greater consciousness only loves all things, and has only the purest acceptance.

They talk about 'true self' but the reality at hand is only the truth about you, all that's seen is touched by the light.

[silent whisper]

The dark side, isn't only symbolic, everyone has it... and people often deny there exists good and evil, but I think better to see what the terms really refer to.

A person has to have two sides, but where the person lives is the thing, because one can sink into a world of shadows all too easily, and everyone has the shadow in which to hide themselves.

between us, it doesn't matter so much, but as a person I believe that the intention to open the vessle of mind to the awareness of greater consciousness, and keep no secrets from 'God', will bring light upon these hidden recesses where to much shame has kept ugly truths secreted.

It comes with a love, for it is true the greater consciousness only loves all things, and has only the purest acceptance.

They talk about 'true self' but the reality at hand is only the truth about you, all that's seen is touched by the light.


That is beautiful...just beautiful...

[TzuJanLi]

Greetings..

The dark side, isn't only symbolic, everyone has it... and people often deny there exists good and evil, but I think better to see what the terms really refer to.

A person has to have two sides, but where the person lives is the thing, because one can sink into a world of shadows all too easily, and everyone has the shadow in which to hide themselves.

between us, it doesn't matter so much, but as a person I believe that the intention to open the vessle of mind to the awareness of greater consciousness, and keep no secrets from 'God', will bring light upon these hidden recesses where to much shame has kept ugly truths secreted.

It comes with a love, for it is true the greater consciousness only loves all things, and has only the purest acceptance.

They talk about 'true self' but the reality at hand is only the truth about you, all that's seen is touched by the light.
'Feelings' need no 'Light', and the blind person 'feels' as well as most sighted people 'see'..

What "shame has kept ugly truths secreted"?

Be well..

[silent whisper]

Greetings..


'Feelings' need no 'Light', and the blind person 'feels' as well as most sighted people 'see'..

What "shame has kept ugly truths secreted"?

Be well..


There is no shame..the only thing that remains..is a heart that weeps.....for a soul to shine..sublime.

[psychoslice]

The dark side, isn't only symbolic, everyone has it... and people often deny there exists good and evil, but I think better to see what the terms really refer to.

A person has to have two sides, but where the person lives is the thing, because one can sink into a world of shadows all too easily, and everyone has the shadow in which to hide themselves.

between us, it doesn't matter so much, but as a person I believe that the intention to open the vessle of mind to the awareness of greater consciousness, and keep no secrets from 'God', will bring light upon these hidden recesses where to much shame has kept ugly truths secreted.

It comes with a love, for it is true the greater consciousness only loves all things, and has only the purest acceptance.

They talk about 'true self' but the reality at hand is only the truth about you, all that's seen is touched by the light.
Gem what are you on ?.:hug3:

[Gem]

Gem what are you on ?.:hug3:

I say whaT i think and feel that among the noise on this forum it stands among the most relevent.

[silent whisper]

Does that mean your "cockatoo" black and red as he is....has no bearing on what team you go for...:0

[Squatchit]

That you can go into a pitch black room full of darkness, full of evil and light a little candle and instantly that darkness flees.
Eh? You are joking, aren't you?

Here's an experiment. Turn off all the lights in your house at midnight and light a little candle in one room. Then come back to this thread and tell me what the ratio is of light:darkness in that room....

The darkness doesn't flee...the tiny part that is blinded by the candle is simply hiding behind the light waiting to pounce on you when your candle goes out....

"It's BEHIND You!!!!!!!!"

:tongue:

[sound]

:D :D ...............

[Squatchit]

I say whaT i think and feel that among the noise on this forum it stands among the most relevent.
You do realise that some, maybe most, members probably feel the same way about their own posts. That's why SF has a large stock cupboard full of soapboxes and placards.

[TzuJanLi]

Greetings..

You do realise that some, maybe most, members probably feel the same way about their own posts. That's why SF has a large stock cupboard full of soapboxes and placards.
Absotively!!

BE well..

[Humm]

You mean like this:

...That's just it, Xan.. there's no 'there', 'there' is is how you have interpreted your personal experience...
The placard of preaching, the soapbox of denial.

[Gem]

Sorry about my prattishness, but it need not be the cause of the deterioration of another thread.

[3dnow]

The real question is:

Does evolution try to prevent someone's darkness?

:hug::tongue:

[Humm]

The real question is:

Does evolution try to prevent someone's darkness?

:hug::tongue:
It seems obvious to me evolution is from darkness to the Light.

[3dnow]

It seems obvious to me evolution is from darkness to the Light.

Don't tell me you took it seriously :-)

[Humm]

Don't tell me you took it seriously :-)
Why not? I rather enjoy differing perspectives. :D

[Sundialed]

It seems obvious to me evolution is from darkness to the Light.

Saying going from the darkness to light is too ambiguous. imo. Not to say that your perspective of that term is wrong. So I guess my question is, what does it mean to you?

[Humm]

My take on it is the only thing left after the universe has gone that wasn't there before will be the light of consciousness that God has nurtured from the sentient Beings that evolved out of it.

As He said: Let there be light...

[Gem]

My take on it is the only thing left after the universe has gone that wasn't there before will be the light of consciousness that God has nurtured from the sentient Beings that evolved out of it.

As He said: Let there be light...

So 'He' was there prior to light?

[Humm]

So 'He' was there prior to light?

I don't believe in a personal God, but I do believe in a Higher Power....

Whatever that is.

...but I find that biblical sentiment cosmically authentic.

[TzuJanLi]

Greetings..

So 'He' was there prior to light?
Hi Gem: 'He', as in whatever one chooses to believe 'he' is, but your point is naturally rational.. when a star implodes and runs out of fuel, it goes dark and its 'light' fades.. 'consciousness', however it is understood, is resident in light and dark, it is the source of Light.. it chooses to create light, or not.. and the darkness is always there, the cradle of existence.. consciousness exists with or without Light, it is the potential for light..

"Darkness within darkness, the gateway of all things marvelous".. Tao Te Ching, Chapter One..

Be well..

[Silver]

I don't think I've ever been afraid of the dark.

[Humm]

Greetings..


Hi Gem: 'He', as in whatever one chooses to believe 'he' is, but your point is naturally rational.. when a star implodes and runs out of fuel, it goes dark and its 'light' fades.. 'consciousness', however it is understood, is resident in light and dark, it is the source of Light.. it chooses to create light, or not.. and the darkness is always there, the cradle of existence.. consciousness exists with or without Light, it is the potential for light..

"Darkness within darkness, the gateway of all things marvelous".. Tao Te Ching, Chapter One..

Be well..
So when one says 'something comes out of nothing' that makes nothing the source?

Tzu makes the point one may see the universe however one wishes - the question is, is it dark, or is it light.

[Silver]

If you've ever heard of the term smoke and mirrors, the light is in collusion in order to create the deceptive appearance. We cannot see the illusion without it (light). Does that make light evil? No more than dark is evil...

[Jules]

So when one says 'something comes out of nothing' that makes nothing the source?

Tzu makes the point one may see the universe however one wishes - the question is, it is dark, or is it light.well, if everythings contained in it, it's both light and dark. However, like everything else it's how you choose to perceive and experience it

[Humm]

If you've ever heard of the term smoke and mirrors, the light is in collusion in order to create the deceptive appearance. We cannot see the illusion without it (light). Does that make light evil? No more than dark is evil...Tzu has made the point repeatedly that dark is the source and the basis.

Okay, that's how he sees it.

[Humm]

well, if everythings contained in it, it's both light and dark. However, like everything else it's how you choose to perceive and experience it
I've never said otherwise.

[Silver]

Tzu has made the point repeatedly that dark is the source and the basis.

Okay, that's how he sees it.

You yourself quoted the bible "Let there be light." so, it had to be dark before the light was born, I would think...but none of us know for sure what/how/when/where it all came together ~ if you wanna call this together.
:hug:

[Humm]

You yourself quoted the bible "Let there be light." so, it had to be dark before the light was born, I would think...but none of us know for sure what/how/when/where it all came together ~ if you wanna call this together.
:hug:Again, if something came out of nothing, does that make nothing the source?

[Bluegreen]

Tzu has made the point repeatedly that dark is the source and the basis.

Okay, that's how he sees it.

I think Tzu is correct. For a long time I have been interested in what has been called the Void and opened a thread on the subject and another thread on three types of light. Blavatsky describes the Void as the Absolute/the Rootless Root which is devoid of experience, it is the Darkness which is the true Light.

I have found accounts of people who became aware of the void and used the same description that Blavatsky gave.

I was reading The Convoluted Universe by Dolores Cannon when I came across yet another account of the void.

"It is the nothingness out of which everything comes" "It is the darkness from which the light comes. It is beyond the light...I can tell you that the light comes from the darkness. Not ... to confuse darkness with evil or anything negative. It is simply that which contains light....And from the nothingness comes the light. And from the light comes the differentiation that we call the somethingness."

A bit further on in the book, one of Cannon's subjects says that there is more beyond the void but that it is not yet the time to reveal that information. Cannon takes her subjects to a hypnotic state which she calls the somnambulist state. At that level, she found that no matter who or where her subject was, it was always the same 'entity' that answered her questions.

[Jules]

I've never said otherwise.You asked the question is it light or is it dark .. hence the response

[Silver]

Again, if something came out of nothing, does that make nothing the source?

I guess that's the problem with absolutes...is there such a thing as 'nothing' ?

[TzuJanLi]

Greetings..

So when one says 'something comes out of nothing' that makes nothing the source?
As stated in the quote, Yes.. the issue is, is it truly 'nothing', or is it simply the limits of your awareness? the mistake would be to equate darkness with 'nothing'..

Be well..

[Humm]

Greetings..


As stated in the quote, Yes.. the issue is, is it truly 'nothing', or is it simply the limits of your awareness? the mistake would be to equate darkness with 'nothing'..

Be well..
So its a relative darkness?

[3dnow]

Without light there is no darkness :D

[Silver]

Without light there is no darkness :D

I always liked a smarty pants~*
:tongue:

[Jules]

Greetings..


As stated in the quote, Yes.. the issue is, is it truly 'nothing', or is it simply the limits of your awareness? the mistake would be to equate darkness with 'nothing'..

Be well..would it necessarily be a mistake though given one's perception and belief/truth at that given time?

[Humm]

I think Tzu is correct. For a long time I have been interested in what has been called the Void and opened a thread on the subject and another thread on three types of light. Blavatsky describes the Void as the Absolute/the Rootless Root which is devoid of experience, it is the Darkness which is the true Light.

I have found accounts of people who became aware of the void and used the same description that Blavatsky gave.

I was reading The Convoluted Universe by Dolores Cannon when I came across yet another account of the void.

"It is the nothingness out of which everything comes" "It is the darkness from which the light comes. It is beyond the light...I can tell you that the light comes from the darkness. Not ... to confuse darkness with evil or anything negative. It is simply that which contains light....And from the nothingness comes the light. And from the light comes the differentiation that we call the somethingness."

A bit further on in the book, one of Cannon's subjects says that there is more beyond the void but that it is not yet the time to reveal that information. Cannon takes her subjects to a hypnotic state which she calls the somnambulist state. At that level, she found that no matter who or where her subject was, it was always the same 'entity' that answered her questions.
David Hawkins in his book Transcending the Levels of Consciousness had some interesting things to say about the void.

http://www.amazon.com/Transcending-Levels-Consciousness-David-Hawkins/dp/0971500754/ref=pd_sim_b_6

I'll have to dig them out.

[Humm]

Without light there is no darkness :D
I would think that depends on if darkness is something you 'see' or not. :tongue:

[Silver]

I think Nelson said something profound one time (Simpsons of course):

paraphrased: "There's nothing more satisfying than beating someone up in the dark."
:D

[Humm]

You asked the question is it light or is it dark .. hence the response
Sorry Jue - I was agreeing with you. :smile:

[TzuJanLi]

Greetings..

would it necessarily be a mistake though given one's perception and belief/truth at that given time?
Hi Jules: No it wouldn't, it would be a mistake to believe that we know all there is to know.. i experience the 'darkness' as the Great Mystery, and i describe 'my' experiences with the darkness.. some here claim contrary to my experiences, and what i can say is that i have made those same claims prior to my current understanding.. and, i may revise this current understanding, i am not resistant to it.. i ventured into the darkness within darkness, and experienced its presence everywhere.. it is the 'stillness', and it is the 'silence', and it is sublimely patient.. it is the blank canvas upon which existence happens.. thank you for asking..

Be well..

[Jules]

Sorry Jue - I was agreeing with you. :smile:sorry me love lol .. head mashed today grr

[Humm]

...it is the 'stillness', and it is the 'silence', and it is sublimely patient.. it is the blank canvas upon which existence happens...
So darkness doesn't exist - or it's not nothing? Where would existence be without existence? What Created it - or are you gonna dodge that with It's eternal ?

Is there any reason to your existence, or does it all 'just happen'?

I don't see how you would sense a Higher Power and then retract that for 'Darkness'.

Perhaps you just went spiritually blind?

[Humm]

sorry me love lol .. head mashed today grr

Me too, quite honestly. :hug:

[Sundialed]

Again, if something came out of nothing, does that make nothing the source?

Here is one perspective from an intact pre-Columbian tribe:

"In the beginning, there was blackness.
Only the sea.
In the beginning there was no sun, no moon, no people.
In the beginning there were no animals, no plants.
Only the sea.
The sea was the Mother.
The Mother was not people, she was not anything.
Nothing at all.
She was when she was, darkly.
She was memory and potential.
She was Aluna...

...What matters is how hard the Mother had to think –
hardest of all to make the first man. How does an eye work? How
should it be made? The foot, what should it be like? Creatures were
conceived with eyes and feet wrongly made, then finally success, and a
history began, an epic sweep of rising and falling peoples of different
kinds and different colours, until finally the nature of mankind was
settled, stabilised.
And then the punch line.

There were still no people.
There were no plants, no animals, no sun, no moon.
Only the Mother.
Only Aluna."

That somewhat describes their story of creation before the dawning of physical reality. Neat I thought anyway.

The idea is that everything was thought out so nothing would screw up. Have you ever not thought out something fully, for it to then go wrong?

So the Kogi think and think before they materialize just as the Mother thought and thought before she materialized.

[Jules]

Greetings..


Hi Jules: No it wouldn't, it would be a mistake to believe that we know all there is to know.. i experience the 'darkness' as the Great Mystery, and i describe 'my' experiences with the darkness.. some here claim contrary to my experiences, and what i can say is that i have made those same claims prior to my current understanding.. and, i may revise this current understanding, i am not resistant to it.. i ventured into the darkness within darkness, and experienced its presence everywhere.. it is the 'stillness', and it is the 'silence', and it is sublimely patient.. it is the blank canvas upon which existence happens.. thank you for asking..

Be well..Hi Bob :) oooh I agree with that wholeheartedly! part and parcel of the journey is allowing for one's own truth to change.

I do believe that the stillness and silence allows for creation and I'm in complete agreement. You'll have to excuse my head today - I know what I'm trying to say but can't verbalise it grr. I'll shush now lol. Except to say, for me anyway, light is dark, and dark is light .. it's all that is. Consciousness, awareness whatever you will. It's when sitting in that I personally have the total connection with all that is.

[Jules]

Me too, quite honestly. :hug:ere, have a huggle :) :hug3:

[Humm]

Here is one perspective from an intact pre-Columbian tribe:

"In the beginning, there was blackness.
Only the sea.
In the beginning there was no sun, no moon, no people.
In the beginning there were no animals, no plants.
Only the sea.
The sea was the Mother.
The Mother was not people, she was not anything.
Nothing at all.
She was when she was, darkly.
She was memory and potential.
She was Aluna...

...What matters is how hard the Mother had to think –
hardest of all to make the first man. How does an eye work? How
should it be made? The foot, what should it be like? Creatures were
conceived with eyes and feet wrongly made, then finally success, and a
history began, an epic sweep of rising and falling peoples of different
kinds and different colours, until finally the nature of mankind was
settled, stabilised.
And then the punch line.

There were still no people.
There were no plants, no animals, no sun, no moon.
Only the Mother.
Only Aluna."

That somewhat describes their story of creation before the dawning of physical reality. Neat I thought anyway.

I quite agree before there was anything of the universe there was nothing. The question seems to be if the universe came out of that nothing, or there was something else - that the 'darkness' isn't the source, but rather just where we cannot sense - which makes the darkness, really, in us.

I think even empty space knows that it is - that our sense of 'darkness' doesn't define it, that it is the same Source that perpetuates us that perpetuates it.

[Humm]

ere, have a huggle :) :hug3:
Thanks Jue - I really need that today! :smile:

[Jules]

Thanks Jue - I really need that today! :smile:ya welcome chuckles :) :hug2:

[Bluegreen]

Descriptions of the Void:

http://www.spiritualforums.com/vb/showthread.php?t=17172

Three types of light, including darkness:

http://www.spiritualforums.com/vb/showthread.php?t=28309

[arive nan]

I like to study spiritual experiences. Over time, after looking into many accounts of many different experiences, it has become evident to me that the light/love/God experience is different from the void/darkness/no emotion experience. They are noticeably different experiences.

For those who have experienced both within their lifetime, they might feel that one is more true/real/etc than the other. But they do not all agree on which is which. Some may feel that light/love is the real one whereas void/darkness is not as real or it is a step below or something. Others may feel that void/darkness is the real one whereas light/love is not as real or it is a step below or something. And of course there are those who consider them both to be different ways of looking at the same thing, or consider them both to be a step on the way to something even more True.

What this means for me is that neither the light/love nor the void/darkness can be the one fundamental experience that would ideally unite all people. I do not believe there is such a one fundamental experience that could do that. We will not unite by all having the same experience and the same belief about it. If we are to unite it will be as people who have had different experiences and different beliefs and feelings about those experiences. I have observed that when people try to unite that way it ends up creating more conflict.

What can potentially allow people to unite is if they understand that different experiences will seem more or less real to different people. What feels like the one fundamental truth to you is something that other people may not have experienced, or even if they have they might have also experienced something else that to them feels like it is more real/true. We can't change that. That is part of being human. But we can change the way we treat each other over our differences in experience and belief. Our behavior is what we potentially can change.

[silent whisper]

I like to study spiritual experiences. Over time, after looking into many accounts of many different experiences, it has become evident to me that the light/love/God experience is different from the void/darkness/no emotion experience. They are noticeably different experiences.

For those who have experienced both within their lifetime, they might feel that one is more true/real/etc than the other. But they do not all agree on which is which. Some may feel that light/love is the real one whereas void/darkness is not as real or it is a step below or something. Others may feel that void/darkness is the real one whereas light/love is not as real or it is a step below or something. And of course there are those who consider them both to be different ways of looking at the same thing, or consider them both to be a step on the way to something even more True.

What this means for me is that neither the light/love nor the void/darkness can be the one fundamental experience that would ideally unite all people. I do not believe there is such a one fundamental experience that could do that. We will not unite by all having the same experience and the same belief about it. If we are to unite it will be as people who have had different experiences and different beliefs and feelings about those experiences. I have observed that when people try to unite that way it ends up creating more conflict.

What can potentially allow people to unite is if they understand that different experiences will seem more or less real to different people. What feels like the one fundamental truth to you is something that other people may not have experienced, or even if they have they might have also experienced something else that to them feels like it is more real/true. We can't change that. That is part of being human. But we can change the way we treat each other over our differences in experience and belief. Our behavior is what we potentially can change.


Is it about whats real..or simply what is?

We can only unite when we feel the union of self...complete within. While we bear inner conflict the seperation even in behaviour will continue to feel like it disengages us....and keeps us seperate. Of course acceptance comes into it again...

But I liked reading your words...

[sound]

the issue is, is it truly 'nothing', or is it simply the limits of your awareness? the mistake would be to equate darkness with 'nothing'..


Yes ... it may be that there is light within darkness ... maybe light can manifest in more ways than just the version we are aware of physically ... a version that exists beyond what we can even reveal with instruments ... maybe we get a glimpse of that same 'light' in meditative states ...

[Humm]

Is it about whats real..or simply what is?

Good question.

There are great advantages to studying others experiences, but there are also problems with it if you try to apply that knowledge to the wrong thing, IMO.

Is everyone really cognizing the same thing, just from a different perspective? Do such experiences reflect the universe outside of us, or the universe inside of us? Should we trust our internal senses, or our external ones? Is the goal actually to unite everybody, or is something else afoot?

[sound]

What appears to complicate it even further is when all are trying to cognize 'nothing' ...

[Humm]

What appears to complicate it even further is when all are trying to cognize 'nothing' ...
Word. .....

[Silver]

Good one, sound.

[Xan]

You will hear what you need to hear, Xan.. you aren't even willing to engage in potential, what 'might be possible', you're too concerned with image.. do you really think any of this is about 'you'?

Be well..

Bob, in all the time you have pursuing me, for your own peculiar reasons, I have found you to be more interested in generating conflict than anything else; as you shift from one position to another, make others wrong, claim clarity but lack authenticity and often use your words and energies for manipulation, and put on an authority attitude as if you knew me, my experience and my life direction better than I do. In my view that's just silly.

This came in my email today:

What if we go on arguing about the futility
of argument as a form of communication?

- Steve Toth


I'm done with you.

blessings
Xan

[Humm]

What if we go on arguing about the futility
of argument as a form of communication?
- Steve Toth

Good one. ..

[Silver]

Bob, in all the time you have pursuing me, for your own peculiar reasons, I have found you to be more interested in generating conflict than anything else; as you shift from one position to another, claiming clarity but lacking authenticity and often using your words and energies for manipulation, and put on an authority attitude as if you knew me, my experience and my life direction better than I do. In my view that's just silly.

This came in my email today:

What if we go on arguing about the futility
of argument as a form of communication?

- Steve Toth


I'm done with you.

blessings
Xan

Don't you think that's just taking another swing?

You both need to get outta the ring.

[silent whisper]

Good question.

There are great advantages to studying others experiences, but there are also problems with it if you try to apply that knowledge to the wrong thing, IMO.

Is everyone really cognizing the same thing, just from a different perspective? Do such experiences reflect the universe outside of us, or the universe inside of us? Should we trust our internal senses, or our external ones? Is the goal actually to unite everybody, or is something else afoot?



Good questions...

Do we really need to study others expereinces...or just allow theirs to merge with our own in acceptance...of what is. People at times in that merging, are not willing to feel fully their own space..taking on the others, revealing the seperation in themselves through their words of reaction. In reaction their is a cause and most often times and affect.....but for me their is only the eyes that see and the heart to feel. The remaining space is the willingness to allow what flows outward in that connection to flow. What I have received in opening to anothers world...I may have something to give...if in my giving the one receiving cannot receive from the same space...then of course that division in worlds will come into being...in light of their own inner world.

And Humm....what I hold within myself is what is always on the outside for me....In union of self.....how I unite that union is not how it feels for others.....my union may have others react in their seperation or in their eyes my own...it probably works both ways I suspect...

If I feel united in me...do I give up.........no I continue on regardless of what others feel....they are ultimatly responsible for how they feel....sometimes reactions show a difference to me....I can acknowledge how others feel....but ultimatlely they are responsible for their own feelings...

In union of self.......as one with..........union of others is one with...Is it not?

[Humm]

... ultimately they are responsible for their own feelings...
As I am ultimately responsible for my own, of course.

The catch 22 is in accepting or not others non-acceptance. I have found that making any rule steps me out of what is - there is a time for acceptance, and there is a time for judgement, and each must be discerned in awareness of appropriate action for a specific goal.

...At least, that's where I am right now, and you are in a different place - just as discerning, but with a different goal requiring different action - with Tzu in yet another place - and I accept that.

Out paths cross in different ways as well, and I accept that too.

[silent whisper]

As I am ultimately responsible for my own, of course.

The catch 22 is in accepting or not others non-acceptance. I have found that making any rule steps me out of what is - there is a time for acceptance, and there is a time for judgement, and each must be discerned in awareness of appropriate action for a specific goal.

...At least, that's where I am right now, and you are in a different place - just as discerning, but with a different goal requiring different action - with Tzu in yet another place - and I accept that.

Out paths cross in different ways as well, and I accept that too.


I accept all your paths as they are before me...in my giving I give from my own...as do we all..where we reside...when we have to stop and discern, we can sometimes miss the space of giving in trust of our own union...does spirit discern....or trust and accept it all as giving in the natural flow...regardelss of how it may be perceived...by others.... In trust of self is their judgement?

Acceptance of myself in trust............I accept others and trust...

I guess I can say spirit and discerning are as one for me....in my union...

[Humm]

I accept all your paths as they are before me...in my giving I give from my own...as do we all..where we reside...when we have to stop and discern, we can sometimes miss the space of giving in trust of our own union...does spirit discern....or trust and accept it all as giving in the natural flow...regardelss of how it may be perceived...by others.... In trust of self is their judgement?

Acceptance of myself in trust............I accept others and trust...

I guess I can say spirit and discerning are as one for me....in my union...
Good points. I agree to a point - I always trust others to be as they are.

Again, I don't want to commit to dogmatic rules - but I do not think that precludes rationality, spiritual or material. One must simply remain cognizant of the relevant conditions and situation.

Are you trusting me?

[Jules]

...At least, that's where I am right now, and you are in a different place - just as discerning, but with a different goal requiring different action - with Tzu in yet another place - and I accept that. You know hummy that's what pees me off more than anything ... people need to understand this but all the arguing and bickering that goes on with peeps trying to get their own points across are doing so forgetting that if you're not in the same place as someone else, then how the heck can they understand what you're trying to say? somewhere along the line our own truths change and what someone says will more than likely resonate at some point , but until that time, no amount of rowing on who's right or wrong is gonna help people understand one's own pov. ok moan over.

[silent whisper]

Good points. I agree to a point - I always trust others to be as they are.

Again, I don't want to commit to dogmatic rules - but I do not think that precludes rationality, spiritual or material. One must simply remain cognizant of the relevant conditions and situation.

Are you trusting me?


I trust myself..........why would I not trust you? Spirt has its own rules...I trust in the greater as one with myself...as I trust with others...

[silent whisper]

You know hummy that's what pees me off more than anything ... people need to understand this but all the arguing and bickering that goes on with peeps trying to get their own points across are doing so forgetting that if you're not in the same place as someone else, then how the heck can they understand what you're trying to say? somewhere along the line our own truths change and what someone says will more than likely resonate at some point , but until that time, no amount of rowing on who's right or wrong is gonna help people understand one's own pov. ok moan over.


Feel better?

[Jules]

lol .. not yet :/ will do soon :P

[silent whisper]

lol .. not yet :/ will do soon :P


good for you Jules...lol!!!

[Jules]

:D:dink::redface:xxx

[Humm]

You know hummy that's what pees me off more than anything ... people need to understand this but all the arguing and bickering that goes on with peeps trying to get their own points across are doing so forgetting that if you're not in the same place as someone else, then how the heck can they understand what you're trying to say? somewhere along the line our own truths change and what someone says will more than likely resonate at some point , but until that time, no amount of rowing on who's right or wrong is gonna help people understand one's own pov. ok moan over.
So true - and methinks that's the way it's been for a long, long time. :D

[Humm]

I trust myself..........why would I not trust you? Spirt has its own rules...I trust in the greater as one with myself...as I trust with others...
Excellent.

What are you trying to tell me?

[silent whisper]

Excellent.

What are you trying to tell me?


Tell you? Am I telling? Or am I sharing...:hug3:

[Humm]

What are you trying to share with me?

[TzuJanLi]

Bob, in all the time you have pursuing me, for your own peculiar reasons, I have found you to be more interested in generating conflict than anything else; as you shift from one position to another, make others wrong, claim clarity but lack authenticity and often use your words and energies for manipulation, and put on an authority attitude as if you knew me, my experience and my life direction better than I do. In my view that's just silly.

This came in my email today:

What if we go on arguing about the futility
of argument as a form of communication?

- Steve Toth


I'm done with you.

blessings
Xan
I appreciate that you are "done with me", but you've said it before, so you'll excuse me if i take that with the proverbial 'grain of salt'.. as for the rest, why do you attack 'me', and not the real substance of our dialogue?

Be well..

[silent whisper]

What are you trying to share with me?


me of course

Well now I dont really know what I am sharing...I just sit here and do my thing...Is that me? Or is that just sharing? What is it? lol!!

[silent whisper]

am I allowed to share me? I gave myself permission...so I gathered it was ok....now humm you have me giggling at my own unfolding here..but hey its fun...

[silent whisper]

I appreciate that you are "done with me", but you've said it before, so you'll excuse me if i take that with the proverbial 'grain of salt'.. as for the rest, why do you attack 'me', and not the real substance of our dialogue?

Be well..


you appreciate being done with?... it does sound almost like an appreciation of anothers surrender...well that can always be a good thing...in my eyes.

Oh she has said it before....I get the grain of salt aspect then....so in her surrender you know that Xan is not done. Her words do not mean she is giving up just done for now...

Well the now is all that counts...in my world..at least...

[Humm]

What Tzu means is he will dog her until she responds, then tut tut over how she can't keep away from him.

As to the substance of his dialog, I think she covered that pretty well.

Thank you for sharing yourself here SW. :smile:

[TzuJanLi]

Greetings..

you appreciate being done with?... it does sound almost like an appreciation of anothers surrender...well that can always be a good thing...in my eyes.

Oh she has said it before....I get the grain of salt aspect then....so in her surrender you know that Xan is not done. Her words do not mean she is giving up just done for now...

Well the now is all that counts...in my world..at least...
Yes, if Xan is truly done with me.. i will accept that she understands the situation, and is finished.. though i would have preferred a less abrasive escape, or even better.. a cordial continuation..

Yes, several times, Xan rebukes me and departs saying she is done, but.. she returns when she has recovered.. i do not know what Xan 'means', SW, regardless of what she says, and.. when i try to find out, well, you see the result..

Now counts for me, too, SW..

Be well..

[Sundialed]

Final answer Regis: Darkness tries to prevent evolution but at the same time it catalyzes evolution.

[TzuJanLi]

Greetings..

Final answer Regis: Darkness tries to prevent evolution but at the same time it catalyzes evolution.
Hi SS: I have never experienced 'darkness trying' to do anything.. it is the most natural condition, requiring absolutely nothing for its existence.. it is eternal, and it spontaneously arises, and is never depleted.. Evolution thrives in light and dark, weaving them into an ever changing destiny..

Be well..

[Humm]

...Yes, if Xan is truly done with me.. i will accept that she understands the situation, and is finished.. though i would have preferred a less abrasive escape, or even better.. a cordial continuation..

Yes, several times, Xan rebukes me and departs saying she is done, but.. she returns when she has recovered.. i do not know what Xan 'means', SW, regardless of what she says, and.. when i try to find out, well, you see the result...
Yes.... If she understand the situation... If she wasn't so abrasive... And if only she had been cordial.

She has rebuked you several times? You managed to rebuke her several times in the same post Tzu, implying she is 'not well' in the bargain - that she will be back 'when she recovered', that she is somehow unbalanced or not quite in her right mind. Further, you imply she does not even understand what she is saying, but is 'abrasive' and 'rebukes' you so she can 'escape' when you 'try to find out' what she means.

You see, this is what Tzu is good at, this is his 'understanding', his 'insight' - how to get under people's skin... How to subtly insult and mock them right in front of your eyes, and if - heaven forbid - they should have enough of it, well then, they should be less abrasive and more cordial!

Parse the sentences carefully people - you will find it very instructive.

Keep talking Tzu - I am finding it very instructive.

[Gem]

I appreciate that you are "done with me", but you've said it before, so you'll excuse me if i take that with the proverbial 'grain of salt'.. as for the rest, why do you attack 'me', and not the real substance of our dialogue?

Be well..

That's just how 'they' roll Tzu, and now the rest of 'them' are on to you. Good luck. teehee.

[Humm]

That's just how 'they' roll Tzu, and now the rest of 'them' are on to you. Good luck. teehee.
What's the matter Gem - don't appreciate the way I discussed the substance of Tzu's dialogue?

[silent whisper]

That's just how 'they' roll Tzu, and now the rest of 'them' are on to you. Good luck. teehee.


And I am hot on your little black and red tail feather too....so get those wings flapping...I say it with no offense, just some mildly mannered humour...:D

[silent whisper]

Oh boy I came back at the right time....*rubs hands together in glee*....:)

[Aquarian]

You both need to get outta the ring.
We need a sin-bin! :boxing:


I've been debating with myself a while how far to encourage Xan to take more responsibility for what she writes.

It's not so much bad information she puts out -- as TzuJanLi found, there's quite a lack of information.

Rather, it's the very convincing 'affectations of enlightenment' that she subconsciously fakes in order to get approval. :hello2:
I see people falling for it all the time and only recently realised it doesn't matter that much -- she doesn't put out a lot of bad information and I've never seen any dangerous info.

Of course, some other posters are so transparently unenlightened that their affectations don't fool anyone. :laughing6:

[silent whisper]

We need a sin-bin! :boxing:


I've been debating with myself a while how far to encourage Xan to take more responsibility for what she writes.

It's not so much bad information she puts out -- as TzuJanLi found, there's quite a lack of information.

Rather, it's the very convincing 'affectations of enlightenment' that she subconsciously fakes in order to get approval. :hello2:
I see people falling for it all the time and only recently realised it doesn't matter that much -- she doesn't put out a lot of bad information and I've never seen any dangerous info.

Of course, some other posters are so transparently unenlightened that their affectations don't fool anyone. :laughing6:


While your naming people..why not name the transparent ones.....you see that make you laugh....:smile:

[Silver]

You two have some very good points ~ I decided not too long ago not to 'back' either 'fighter'. I feel a lot better about myself since then.

[TzuJanLi]

We need a sin-bin! :boxing:


I've been debating with myself a while how far to encourage Xan to take more responsibility for what she writes.

It's not so much bad information she puts out -- as TzuJanLi found, there's quite a lack of information.

Rather, it's the very convincing 'affectations of enlightenment' that she subconsciously fakes in order to get approval. :hello2:
I see people falling for it all the time and only recently realised it doesn't matter that much -- she doesn't put out a lot of bad information and I've never seen any dangerous info.

Of course, some other posters are so transparently unenlightened that their affectations don't fool anyone. :laughing6:
Hi Aquarian: Xan's most 'dangerous' recommendation, that i have seen, was to ignore discomfort of the heart when doing heart meditations.. to which i offered a balanced suggestion to always pay attention to discomfort of the heart.. other than that, her advice, presented as fact, is generally just another of the side-shows in the Spiritual Circus, just as my advice is, and.. as always, 'Caveat Emptor', or buyer beware.. when you're at the 'Circus' there are shows that are worth the price, and those that are not.. my advice: learn to read the marquis..

Be well..

[Aquarian]

Hi Aquarian: Xan's most 'dangerous' recommendation, that i have seen, was to ignore discomfort of the heart when doing heart meditations..
Missed that one. Verrrrrrrry bad advice if indeed she did suggest it.

[Gem]

...that i have seen, was to ignore discomfort of the heart when doing heart meditations.. to which i offered a balanced suggestion to always pay attention to discomfort of the heart.. Be well..

That's very helpful, thank you.

I really agree with you. I've found a lot of benefit in paying attention to feelings which are there, whatever they might be.

[psychoslice]

Originally Posted by TzuJanLi
...that i have seen, was to ignore discomfort of the heart when doing heart meditations.. to which i offered a balanced suggestion to always pay attention to discomfort of the heart.. Be well..


This is so true, i once did that also, but now i have been going right into the discomfort, become the discomfort itself, and i have found that once its been fully experienced, it then seems to subside quite a bit.

[Aquarian]

I presume TzuJanLi is largely referring to the possibility that discomfort in the heart might indicate an impending heart attack.

[silent whisper]

We always have the choice to fight or flight...the fight to take flight is sometimes the core of the issue...at hand....

[TzuJanLi]

Greetings..

I presume TzuJanLi is largely referring to the possibility that discomfort in the heart might indicate an impending heart attack.
Yes.. When a poster asks for advice pertaining to discomfort in the heart, it is not prudent to advise them to 'ignore it, it should go away, stay with the meditation'.. our first concern is the safety of those asking our advice, and that borders on medical advice.. my interest is with the questioner first, and the SF website if there were any liability..

Be well..

[BlueSky]

Hi Xan,

For whatever reason, I really don't like seeing people picked on and ridiculed so I usually find myself trying to offset it.
In your case, I feel you don't need that from me or anyone but humor me and accept my hugs and love at this time.
You are a beautiful person.................blessings, James

[Humm]

Hello Aquarian - thank you so much for jumping into the fray. :hug3:

...Of course, some other posters are so transparently unenlightened that their affectations don't fool anyone. :laughing6:

I take it from this you know what enlightenment is and how to spot one who is genuinely enlightened. Please share your knowledge with us, if you would. :smile:

[TzuJanLi]

Greetings..

Hi Xan,

For whatever reason, I really don't like seeing people picked on and ridiculed so I usually find myself trying to offset it.
In your case, I feel you don't need that from me or anyone but humor me and accept my hugs and love at this time.
You are a beautiful person.................blessings, James
You seem to be okay when i am in that situation.. and, the reference to Xan's 'heart' advice is not ridiculing or 'picking on', i responded to another poster with an accurate account of what happened..

Be well..

[Humm]

I presume TzuJanLi is largely referring to the possibility that discomfort in the heart might indicate an impending heart attack.
I suppose if one can't differentiate between spiritual pain and actual, acute, physical pain, then yes Tzu, you have a genuine problem, and Xan must seem a tremendous threat to you.

[Gracey]

seems like the darkness in this thread is preventing what....a bridge to commonality?

[BlueSky]

Greetings..


You seem to be okay when i am in that situation..

Be well..

Please don't try and suggest what I feel.....in any situation.........thank you in advance.

James

[Humm]

seems like the darkness in this thread is preventing what....a bridge to commonality?
Are we making the darkness, or exposing it Gracey? Is the goal simply for us all to agree on something??

Isn't the darkness in us?

[TzuJanLi]

Greetings..

seems like the darkness in this thread is preventing what....a bridge to commonality?
Hi Gracey: Going with the title of the thread, i have never experienced darkness 'trying to do' anything.. it is an inherent natural condition, a principle in the relationship necessary for existence.. i think some people mistake their understanding of darkness as a metaphor for the undesirable deeds of people, as darkness itself..

Be well..

[TzuJanLi]

Greetings..

Please don't try and suggest what I feel.....in any situation.........thank you in advance.

James
Hi James: I'm sharing what "i" feel, James..

Be well..

[Gracey]

Greetings..


Hi Gracey: Going with the title of the thread, i have never experienced darkness 'trying to do' anything.. it is an inherent natural condition, a principle in the relationship necessary for existence.. i think some people mistake their understanding of darkness as a metaphor for the undesirable deeds of people, as darkness itself..

Be well..

i agree, when i am in my spirit form i am in darkness and it is what it is, it does not do anything like you said. it is the light that creates physical matter. the jewish have a word i cant think of right now, it is the bottom half of creation, where the light is so strong that it can not be created.

when people do use darkness as a word of division of good and evil, well this thread is a good example, there is no commonality of all.

[Humm]

...Hi Gracey: Going with the title of the thread, i have never experienced darkness 'trying to do' anything.. it is an inherent natural condition, a principle in the relationship necessary for existence.. i think some people mistake their understanding of darkness as a metaphor for the undesirable deeds of people, as darkness itself...
Just so. Darkness is not a 'value' per se, but a metaphor and analog for the lack of energy, form, or understanding, thus awareness in consciousness.

Darkness defines a lack of all sensed elements of existence.

[Gracey]

Are we making the darkness, or exposing it Gracey? Is the goal simply for us all to agree on something??

Isn't the darkness in us?

it is my goal to reach a state of equality. we are part of the darkness yes.

[Sarian]

I presume TzuJanLi is largely referring to the possibility that discomfort in the heart might indicate an impending heart attack.
Or gas........

[Gracey]

darkness is binah ( i think thats the word) , the womb of all creation.

[Humm]

it is my goal to reach a state of equality. we are part of the darkness yes.
Where do I deny this?

I think the scope of the issue is becoming lost in a couple of side issues, including slandering Xan and otherwise simply dominating the discussion.

If Tzu says Xan is a danger to society and everyone else agrees, does that make it a successful discussion because everyone has found a commonality?

The real issue is values.

[Sarian]

I suppose if one can't differentiate between spiritual pain and actual, acute, physical pain, then yes Tzu, you have a genuine problem, and Xan must seem a tremendous threat to you.
I just shrug and think here we go again...must be all that mirroring stuff going on that I hear so much about...

[Gracey]

Where do I deny this?

I think the scope of the issue is becoming lost in a couple of side issues, including slandering Xan and otherwise simply dominating the discussion.

If Tzu says Xan is a danger to society and everyone else agrees, does that make it a successful discussion because everyone has found a commonality?

The real issue is values.

i have not seen where you deny this, as for xan,i like her, she has always been very kind to me, and i have seen her get short with others, but really who hasn't, i still like her anyway. even if she would get short with me, i would still like her and accept her for who she is.
yes, more virtue (values) than vice is always a good thing in my book,
well i am fixing to go check out a preschool for my children.

might as well enjoy the weather, cause these days, no one seems to be able to change it. hehe.

[Humm]

i have not seen where you deny this, as for xan,i like her, she has always been very kind to me, and i have seen her get short with others, but really who hasn't, i still like her anyway. even if she would get short with me, i would still like her and accept her for who she is.
yes, more virtue (values) than vice is always a good thing in my book,
well i am fixing to go check out a preschool for my children.

might as well enjoy the weather, cause these days, no one seems to be able to change it. hehe.
Good luck finding a preschool you like! :smile:

[TzuJanLi]

Greetings..

I just shrug and think here we go again...must be all that mirroring stuff going on that I hear so much about...
The Quote you referenced, by Humm, shows the scope of the issue here.. i reported an accurate past situation in response to a poster's misunderstanding.. the situation did not call for judgement between "spiritual pain and actual, acute, physical pain", it called for clarity.. i do not trifle with someone's health to 'make a point', or to defend something i posted in error.. why is this not clear? why is it, on an internet forum, where you have no real understanding what the person is asking when they refer to 'heart pain', and that poster never cleared up the issue, why do you not simply act in their best interest, really?

Be well..

[Humm]

...The Quote you referenced, by Humm, shows the scope of the issue here.. i reported an accurate past situation in response to a poster's misunderstanding.. the situation did not call for judgement between "spiritual pain and actual, acute, physical pain", it called for clarity.. i do not trifle with someone's health to 'make a point', or to defend something i posted in error.. why is this not clear? why is it, on an internet forum, where you have no real understanding what the person is asking when they refer to 'heart pain', and that poster never cleared up the issue, why do you not simply act in their best interest, really?
You mean when someone is discussing 'heart pain' at SPIRITUAL FORUMS?

Jeez Tzu, that's a club-footed nit-pick assumption even for you. :rolleyes:

[TzuJanLi]

Greetings..

i have not seen where you deny this, as for xan,i like her, she has always been very kind to me, and i have seen her get short with others, but really who hasn't, i still like her anyway. even if she would get short with me, i would still like her and accept her for who she is.
yes, more virtue (values) than vice is always a good thing in my book,
well i am fixing to go check out a preschool for my children.

might as well enjoy the weather, cause these days, no one seems to be able to change it. hehe.
Hi Gracey: Those are such amazing times with the little ones, enjoy.. My son is a US Marine and my daughter is in her second year of Law School.. sometimes it's hard to connect those bright little faces to the struggles Life has etched onto them..

Be well..

[Miss Hepburn]

...I'm on the fence....
But either way I believe that there must be some kind of darkness that puts blocks into the path of someone who might accomplish great things with their lives or is on the road of having a spiritual awakening.

Is there something ....? ...that tries to prevents this from happening?

.. something comes and puts a stop to it,... even bringing the worst of me out.
It could be the Ego, but at times it feels like something greater.

Could there be some force that wants to prevent people's advancement ...
Hi Suikagirl,
I have not seen your presence here since Jan 27, but I may have missed it.
I started a thread similar to this myself.

I was acutely aware of this "thing" in between my ears that in simple terms
would suggest to me the exact opposite of what my true intention was.

Simply put, what exactly is that "thing" that says at 10 pm - 'You
(I)) want pizza or pasta'..when it is not on ''the program".
I used the old..."just that 2nd piece of chocolate cake"...when
I didn't really want the first one?
Or 'you really don't want to workout today' ---when I want to.

What is that?
Ego, devil, dark forces, the enemy---Who's in there talking to me saying
it's ok to have a 3rd Martini at $9 a pop that I will regret the next day?

(Just to say... I probably need to gain weight and am healthy and fit, btw - these are just examples. I thought relatable.)

When someone gives a reason and gives an answer as to what that is I'll be interested.
I am on the alert for that "thing" 24/7 and feel I have the upperhand...but sometimes I don't...I blame hormones sometimes.

But it manifests as laziness, procrastination, all sorts of distractions --- so
if I missed an answer on these many pages - please refer me back to it.

Thanks,
:smile: Miss Hepburn



Just to add - This "thing" that some call darkness ---it seems to me
has only one power ---and that is to suggest.

[Bluegreen]

Does it have to be some dark evil force that tempts us to have another chocolate, martini or clam chowder? I know from experience what happens if I give in. Perhaps it is I who should excercise more self-discipline.

[Humm]

... Darkness is not a 'value' per se, but a metaphor and analog for the lack of energy, form, or understanding, thus awareness in consciousness.

Darkness defines a lack of all sensed elements of existence.
...such as what is 'best' for us... :wink:

[Miss Hepburn]

Does it have to be some dark evil force that tempts us to have another chocolate, martini or clam chowder? I know from experience what happens if I give in. Perhaps it is I who should excercise more self-discipline.
Well, yes, of course, we need self-discipline - and I have alot - I'm winning...
but the question is still -
what is this "thing" - devil, ego?
Why is it there - Oh, contrast - that's right.

No appreciation of light without dark. The 3rd Dimensional Law, I suppose - ''here'' there is always an opposite.

I suppose it could be left at that - it's how the Creator set up this particular stage.
Because it's different apparently on diff astral planes or planets.
We still have choice there though as here- this or that -always this or ....that.
Hi Bluegreen. :hello:

[TzuJanLi]

Greetings..

Well, yes, of course, we need self-discipline - and I have alot - I'm winning...
but the question is still -
what is this "thing" - devil, ego?
Why is it there - Oh, contrast - that's right.

No appreciation of light without dark. The 3rd Dimensional Law, I suppose - ''here'' there is always an opposite.

I suppose it could be left at that - it's how the Creator set up this particular stage.
Because it's different apparently on diff astral planes or planets.
We still have choice there though as here- this or that -always this or ....that.
Hi Bluegreen. :hello:
Hi Miss H: This "thing" is you.. it is 'You' exploring 'You'.. it is your freedom to choose how you experience yourself.. and, that is most excellent!

Be well..

[Silver]

As far as I'm aware, we don't 'see' anything without contrast or did I miss something?

[Emmalevine]

This is a very interesting thread. I haven't read all the posts yet, but I've definitely felt that the darkness hits when I'm closer to the light.

I don't believe in the devil per sae, but I feel there's a lot to be said for Eckhart Tolle's notion of the 'pain body' if you haven't yet heard of this. His book 'A new Earth' explains it well. It is basically an idea that negative emotions merge to form an entity of its own right which feeds on further negative emotions (such as sadness, anger, depression) to keep it going. It is normal for the pain body to re-emerge in cycles.

I know it sounds a bit strange but it really resonates with what i experience.

[TzuJanLi]

Greetings..

This is a very interesting thread. I haven't read all the posts yet, but I've definitely felt that the darkness hits when I'm closer to the light.

I don't believe in the devil per sae, but I feel there's a lot to be said for Eckhart Tolle's notion of the 'pain body' if you haven't yet heard of this. His book 'A new Earth' explains it well. It is basically an idea that negative emotions merge to form an entity of its own right which feeds on further negative emotions (such as sadness, anger, depression) to keep it going. It is normal for the pain body to re-emerge in cycles.

I know it sounds a bit strange but it really resonates with what i experience.
Is it possible that by suggesting a 'pain body', you, a general reference to you, then adapt an understanding that conforms to the description? that, until someone assembles that description, there is simply a wholeness which you deal with.. and, after separating the 'pain body', it is possible to assign undesirable traits to that 'separate entity', and absolve our self-image of its wholeness relationship with Life?

Be well..

[Humm]

This is a very interesting thread. I haven't read all the posts yet, but I've definitely felt that the darkness hits when I'm closer to the light.

I don't believe in the devil per sae, but I feel there's a lot to be said for Eckhart Tolle's notion of the 'pain body' if you haven't yet heard of this. His book 'A new Earth' explains it well. It is basically an idea that negative emotions merge to form an entity of its own right which feeds on further negative emotions (such as sadness, anger, depression) to keep it going. It is normal for the pain body to re-emerge in cycles.

I know it sounds a bit strange but it really resonates with what i experience.
I deeply appreciate Eckhart Tolle's work.

The pain body concept, whatever it's 'actuality', is very useful because it allows us to have a relationship with our pain. It personalizes it, which gives us much greater understanding and power when dealing with it as an actual living part of ourselves.

[CuriousSnowflake]

I am speaking from personal experiences here...

I am not still able to decide if to believe in the Devil, or believe in less evolved beings who preffer evil ways...I'm on the fence. But either way I believe that there must be some kind of darkness that puts blocks into the path of someone who might accomplish great things with their lives or is on the road of having a spiritual awakening.

Is there something that tries to prevents this from happening?

In my case sometimes it feels like when I am starting going towards the path of enlightenment something comes and puts a stop to it, even bringing the worst of me out. It could be the Ego, but at times it feels like something greater.

Could there be some force that want to prevent people's advancement into the Light?

I don't think there is an actual entity that keeps us from our highest joy. Instead I think it is the overall assumptions of humankind that life is "solitary, poor, nasty, brutish, and short" that does it. We believe this is how life "is", which creates it in our reality. We then experience life as limited in this way, which then colors our beliefs, which create our experience, and so on in a vicious cycle; thought creates reality creates experience creates thought. We who see a possibility of a better world are like salmon swimming upstream. We sense in our deepest selves that the goal is possible, despite everything around us pushing us away from it.

Of course, organized religion has grabbed onto this and built whole mythologies around it, full of vile archetypes bound and determined to "steal our souls" (to what end? Oops, not supposed to ask that :wink: ). As with any thought, it creates our experiences, and thus those who believe most strongly in Satan experience him most strongly. Odd, though; one would think he would go after the easy pickings of the nonbeliever rather than devote so much time and energy on the devout. Quality rather than quantity, perhaps? Who knows.

Okay, enough picking on organized religion and back to the subject at hand. Even when we ourselves change our thoughts about existence, we do not live in a vacuum. All of life is interconnected, thought, word and deed, and we must still fight against the inertia of the thoughts of a world. Few have the personality for such exertion, fewer still the stamina, and only a scant handful the wisdom to see that the exertion only places the difficulty more firmly into place, and it is only through cessation of strain (wei wu wei) that peace and light is achieved. Those few, though, are shining beacons for the rest of us: Gautama, Yehoshua ben Yosef, Babaji, Tenzin Gyatso and Mother Theresa in our time. The way is steep and the gate is narrow, but it is not impossible. Or perhaps impassible. :D

CS

[Humm]

I don't think there is an actual entity that keeps us from our highest joy. Instead I think it is the overall assumptions of humankind that life is "solitary, poor, nasty, brutish, and short" that does it. We believe this is how life "is", which creates it in our reality. We then experience life as limited in this way, which then colors our beliefs, which create our experience, and so on in a vicious cycle; thought creates reality creates experience creates thought. We who see a possibility of a better world are like salmon swimming upstream. We sense in our deepest selves that the goal is possible, despite everything around us pushing us away from it.

Of course, organized religion has grabbed onto this and built whole mythologies around it, full of vile archetypes bound and determined to "steal our souls" (to what end? Oops, not supposed to ask that :wink: ). As with any thought, it creates our experiences, and thus those who believe most strongly in Satan experience him most strongly. Odd, though; one would think he would go after the easy pickings of the nonbeliever rather than devote so much time and energy on the devout. Quality rather than quantity, perhaps? Who knows.

Okay, enough picking on organized religion and back to the subject at hand. Even when we ourselves change our thoughts about existence, we do not live in a vacuum. All of life is interconnected, thought, word and deed, and we must still fight against the inertia of the thoughts of a world. Few have the personality for such exertion, fewer still the stamina, and only a scant handful the wisdom to see that the exertion only places the difficulty more firmly into place, and it is only through cessation of strain (wei wu wei) that peace and light is achieved. Those few, though, are shining beacons for the rest of us: Gautama, Yehoshua ben Yosef, Babaji, Tenzin Gyatso and Mother Theresa in our time. The way is steep and the gate is narrow, but it is not impossible. Or perhaps impassible. :D

CS

Great thoughts CS.

SO when is your book coming out? :smile:

[silent whisper]

I deeply appreciate Eckhart Tolle's work.

The pain body concept, whatever it's 'actuality', is very useful because it allows us to have a relationship with our pain. It personalizes it, which gives us much greater understanding and power when dealing with it as an actual living part of ourselves.


And it gives us the connection to let go of the pain to live fully.:smile:

[Humm]

And it gives us the connection to let go of the pain to live fully.:smile:
Zactly. :hug3:

[silent whisper]

Zactly. :hug3:


Zactly....my sons name revealed itself in your leaving out of two letters..:wink: Are you pyschic? :wink:

Speaking of pain body and children. Our children hold many of the keys to our pain body if we listen. My own son helped to activate my own in ways that it was always there. When you are in a constant space with another who presses buttons and activates our pain, their is a gift to awaken to the pain body and release it fully. Of course my h was a part of that space of awakening. But my son was my greatest gift of light and strength. The day he came into the world. I saw a inner strength and focus on who he really was. His spirit allowed me to be revealed to myself. He bore the brunt of my pain body, my control and fears. I didnt harm him physically in that space. But I tried so hard to control my fears he often activated. As we journeyed together as mother and son. I reached a point where, it wasnt about him. It was about me. In the spaces of letting go, I gave back to him all that I had taken away. I gave back to me. As I look in my sons eyes and my sons heart and spirit. I love that I can discipline him in love, love him openly, allow him to be himself fully. Its painful to reconnect to those old memories. But sometimes its a good reminder, how deeply etched that pain body can be. Its a good reminder, that I was able to give life back to my son. If I truly look in my heart in this moment, my pain body was nothing. The greatest shift for me, was giving back to him so he can soar in his own freedom.

I love my son.

[silent whisper]

seems like the darkness in this thread is preventing what....a bridge to commonality?


We form our own bridge...when others cross it, we welcome them any way we choose too. At times too many people might crowd our bridge...and the bridge gets a litte heavy with the load......we might all drown under a collapsing bridge...or we can give a few a shove and hurt them so the rest are saved from a very nasty fall. Or we could keep our bridge in good all round working order by taking good care of it, that when we recognise people getting squashed and hurt on our bridge ........we shake our foundations up a little, and that will get them moving....back in to a nice even flow fairly quickly...:D moving right along....my foundations need a polish...:wink:

How can words harm people crossing our bridge?

[Xan]

Does it have to be some dark evil force that tempts us to have another chocolate, martini or clam chowder? I know from experience what happens if I give in. Perhaps it is I who should excercise more self-discipline.
Or is the 'dark force' in this case our own laziness or self-defeating habits, that come from lack of self-caring... an affliction of the heart?


Xan

[Xan]

Starbuck: I've definitely felt that the darkness hits when I'm closer to the light.

Or is it that the brighter we become the more our dark aspects are revealed?

In the past I often experienced an opening followed by a closing reaction of the mind's dark patterns...

until the 'dark' closed mind and heart parts get used to more light, to more love.


Xan

[Gracey]

We form our own bridge...when others cross it, we welcome them any way we choose too. At times too many people might crowd our bridge...and the bridge gets a litte heavy with the load......we might all drown under a collapsing bridge...or we can give a few a shove and hurt them so the rest are saved from a very nasty fall. Or we could keep our bridge in good all round working order by taking good care of it, that when we recognise people getting squashed and hurt on our bridge ........we shake our foundations up a little, and that will get them moving....back in to a nice even flow fairly quickly...:D moving right along....my foundations need a polish...:wink:

How can words harm people crossing our bridge?

how can words harm people. you tell a child or even a sensitive person negative things all their life they are gonna believe it, harm done. :icon_frown:

[silent whisper]

how can words harm people. you tell a child or even a sensitive person negative things all their life they are gonna believe it, harm done. :icon_frown:


yes as one I agree...in gratefullness perceptions do change..and ingrained projections.

[Sarian]

,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,///////

[Humm]

how can words harm people. you tell a child or even a sensitive person negative things all their life they are gonna believe it, harm done. :icon_frown:
Yes - meaning, it depends.

[Miss Hepburn]

Or is the 'dark force' in this case our own laziness or self-defeating habits, that come from lack of self-caring... an affliction of the heart?


XanGood one.
Very good.

[SunMist]

This thread perplexes me. Why can't we get down to brass tacks? With all the theorizing and abstraction the simple facts get lost. I'd love to hear more accounts that address the direct concerns of the original post.

Here's an example of my own:
One day I had a profound opening/activation of the 7th and higher chakras. At approximately that same day or time, an ancient enemy of mine - someone who I hadn't heard from for over a decade began the process of trying to contact me. This brought a storm of old chaos and pain back into my life. I have long wondered why he sought me out - was it that he was once connected to me and so sensed the dramatic change in my energy? Or was it that the "negative forces" that wanted to stop my evolution picked the perfect soldier? I already shared my theories upthread - basically that the light attracts any dark that we are connected to and the brighter we get the more it becomes an issue. Either we transform what comes or drown in it.

Anybody else got any "real life" stories to share?

[Humm]

... basically that the light attracts any dark that we are connected to and the brighter we get the more it becomes an issue. Either we transform what comes or drown in it.

Anybody else got any "real life" stories to share?

Recently I engaged in a discussion about Light and Darkness with a Dark Magician who cast me in a Dark Light...

Oh, that's a bit melodramatic... sorry...

:rolleyes:

[TzuJanLi]

Greetings..

Or is the 'dark force' in this case our own laziness or self-defeating habits, that come from lack of self-caring... an affliction of the heart?


Xan
Those are not a 'dark force', nor an 'affliction of the heart'.. they are exactly what you labeled them.. they are poor choices, set to the affectations of metaphor and symbology.. shifting from reality to illusion, supply and demand.. Choice, without the labels of desirability, is a Primal Force that creates the future..

Be well..

[Gem]

Greetings..


Those are not a 'dark force', nor an 'affliction of the heart'.. they are exactly what you labeled them.. they are poor choices, set to the affectations of metaphor and symbology.. shifting from reality to illusion, supply and demand.. Choice, without the labels of desirability, is a Primal Force that creates the future..

Be well..

I think when we hide aspects of ourself from ourself it as though they are hidden in a darkness and secreted away, because of shame or something, and coming to terms and accepting them lets the light in.

[Mr Interesting]

I quite like darkness.

I live in a place where it's actually quite dangerous to negotiate from place to place and the funny thing is I have less accidents in the dark. Why, because I have to be more aware in the dark of things jutting out or fallen across my path... whereas in the light I think I know everything and often bang my head or stub my toe.

The ability to see is entirely overrated.

[silent whisper]

I quite like darkness.

I live in a place where it's actually quite dangerous to negotiate from place to place and the funny thing is I have less accidents in the dark. Why, because I have to be more aware in the dark of things jutting out or fallen across my path... whereas in the light I think I know everything and often bang my head or stub my toe.

The ability to see is entirely overrated.


So being aware of impending dangers that may or may not happen, you "have to be more aware" in trust or fear?

[Emmalevine]

Starbuck: I've definitely felt that the darkness hits when I'm closer to the light.

Or is it that the brighter we become the more our dark aspects are revealed?

In the past I often experienced an opening followed by a closing reaction of the mind's dark patterns...

until the 'dark' closed mind and heart parts get used to more light, to more love.


Xan

Quite possibly Xan. It just seems to me that when I feel better and more positive it is soon taken over by depression and grief :confused: It is also apparent that the better I initially feel the worse the depression kicks in. I know I'm not bipolar or anything like that. I seem to go around in a cycle with it, although I am better overall than I was a few years ago.

[Humm]

...Those are not a 'dark force', nor an 'affliction of the heart'.. they are exactly what you labeled them.. they are poor choices, set to the affectations of metaphor and symbology.. shifting from reality to illusion, supply and demand.. Choice, without the labels of desirability, is a Primal Force that creates the future...
Metaphore and symbology are the raw language of consciousness.

Some are more fluent than others.

[silent whisper]

Quite possibly Xan. It just seems to me that when I feel better and more positive it is soon taken over by depression and grief :confused: It is also apparent that the better I initially feel the worse the depression kicks in. I know I'm not bipolar or anything like that. I seem to go around in a cycle with it, although I am better overall than I was a few years ago.


As the wheel of life turns........the view we see.... was always revealing it all.

[Miss Hepburn]

Here's an example of my own:
One day I had a profound opening/activation of the 7th and higher chakras. At approximately that same day or time, an ancient enemy of mine - someone who I hadn't heard from for over a decade began the process of trying to contact me. This brought a storm of old chaos and pain back into my life.
I have long wondered why he sought me out - was it that he was once connected to me and so sensed the dramatic change in my energy? Or was it that the "negative forces" that wanted to stop my evolution picked the perfect soldier?
I already shared my theories upthread - basically that the light attracts any dark that we are connected to and the brighter we get the more it becomes an issue.
Either we transform what comes or drown in it.

Excellent post. To the point, great relatable example.
It has woken me up a bit to some things..I must take a certain distraction
more seriously ---no stories to share, however.

Thank you.
:thumbsup:

[Gracey]

sun mist, i understand that as the law of polarization. when you manifest the light to a certain degree like you did, the dark will come to challenge you. the choice is yours on how to handle it.

[TzuJanLi]

Greetings..

sun mist, i understand that as the law of polarization. when you manifest the light to a certain degree like you did, the dark will come to challenge you. the choice is yours on how to handle it.
Hi Gracey: I have no experience of the dark challenging anything.. i sense that there is light and dark, and if my attention is intended to be on the light, but it wavers, i might interpret the waiting darkness as 'challenging', but it's not.. the waves do not challenge the shore, they are just being waves.. the darkness doesn't challenge, it just fills-in where the light is weak or absent..

What you refer to as "the dark will come to challenge you", seems a lot more like self-doubt, to me..

Be well..

[Gracey]

that is right, it has been self doubt in my experience and not doing what was right for me. o and hello. :)

[Perfect Storm]

I think we tend to hold us back. Nothing else. Evil its just a personification of a part of ourselves. We dont accpet it so we place outside ourselves with its own name so we can point and blame everything on it rather then assume responsibility ourselves.

[TzuJanLi]

Greetings..

I think we tend to hold us back. Nothing else. Evil its just a personification of a part of ourselves. We dont accpet it so we place outside ourselves with its own name so we can point and blame everything on it rather then assume responsibility ourselves.
Exactly!

Be well..

[Xan]

Quite possibly Xan. It just seems to me that when I feel better and more positive it is soon taken over by depression and grief :confused: It is also apparent that the better I initially feel the worse the depression kicks in. I know I'm not bipolar or anything like that. I seem to go around in a cycle with it, although I am better overall than I was a few years ago.
I know what you mean about the cycles, Starbuck. Even though some parts of us are healed and clear, and other parts still carry negative patterns that either are or seem more extreme.

In my experience, learning to keep my attention in my quiet center, and letting go all the time, gradually balanced out the fluctuations. That's breathing within, of course. :wink:


Xan