View Full Version : WHAT HAVE YOU DONE for LOVE - IF anything
Ok,
WHAT HAVE YOU EVER DONE FOR LOVE? - If anything that is outside of your norm... that can be crazy, embarrassing,.. etc.
There are many postings about what LOVE is or what LOVE can be.
However, I consider the true meaning of love is not about feeling but is about action.
The purpose of love is to act whatever necessary for the object of love - whatever the object is - GOD, opposite sex, child, interest, ideal, spirit, any living being, or whatever.
Here is the lyrics from one of Brian Adams song to keep you going:
When you love someone, you'll do anything
You'll do all the crazy things that you can't explain
You'll shoot the moon, put out the sun
When you love someone
You'll deny the truth, believe a lie
There'll be times that you'll believe, that you can really fly
But your lonely nights have just begun
When you love someone
When you love someone, you'll feel it deep inside
And nothin' else can ever change your mind
When you want someone, when you need someone
When you love someone
When you love someone, you'll sacrifice
You'd give it everything you got and you won't think twice
You'd risk it all, no matter what may come
When you love someone
You'll shoot the moon, put out the sun
When you love someone
I died for love - but I'm feeling much better now. :smile:
Kaere
15-01-2012, 07:15 PM
I went without sleep for three or four days straight - I can't remember exactly lol.
:smile: I died for love - but I'm feeling much better now.
You "almost" died for love... since you are able to make a posting on this forum, you did not die.
Welcome back to life :smile:
Miss Hepburn
15-01-2012, 07:43 PM
Got rid of (my) pride.
I do it daily.
:smile:
You "almost" died for love... since you are able to make a posting on this forum, you did not die.
Welcome back to life :smile:
Well, I beg to differ, since it was I who died, I would know.
Of course once one dies, one sees every death is also a rebirth. :wink:
Thank you for welcoming me back - it does make me feel very welcome in life! :smile:
SpiritCarrier
15-01-2012, 08:02 PM
The most extreme thing I have done for love is completely leaving my responsibilities when the man I am in love with and his daughter were in danger. Before you think badly of me, I didn't leave any small children unattended or anything like that, but it was quite serious nevertheless. I have never felt that kind of pull before. It was exhilarating and frightening all at the same time. I guess what they say about love is true, "True love transcends all."
silent whisper
15-01-2012, 08:16 PM
Reconnected to both my parents in love......after a lifetime of disconnection in me. And yes love is action I agree.
Although I am not religious, I am drawn to various religious temples and churches where I can witness the love of its worshippers.
So, whenever I travel anywhere, I always visit the local spiritual/religious places. Often, whenever I see the amount of work, dedication, and time (some took many hundreds of years) that took to build these temples or churches, I am so amazed at the passion and love that the people have for their GOD/belief.
I was at an old local catholic church near where I live as a visitor the other day.
In this church, I saw an updated mural that listed names of new saints. Needless to say I did not recognize any of them. (Actually, I don't know any catholic saints old or new)
So naturally, I sat in the church and googled each name with my smartphone. :D
Oh boy.... These saints really knew how to love... I mean passionately love.... love for humanity and their GOD.
Here is one of them.
St Maximilian Kolbe - In Auschwitz during WWII, 10 men were condemned to be starved to death in an underground bunker in order to deter further escape attempts after 3 men escaped. Father Maximilian volunteered to take one of these men's place. This total stranger was a father and a husband and he was crying loudly about his family that he would never see again.
Father Max stepped forward and said, "I am a Catholic priest from Poland; I would like to take his place, because he has a wife and children." The switch was permitted and he died in the punitive cell.
He died for this total stranger.
His love for humanity amazed me.
All new saints are incredible examples of humanity and I am so glad to be in the same species as these people. They made me feel proud to be a human.
Silver
15-01-2012, 10:55 PM
By trying to figure out what someone I love really wants and needs. Trying to make what little I may do (or a lot) count in their eyes. In this sense, I think we all have.
Gave and give my life for Love itself and serving that.
Xan
As I ask this question, I realize that I have nothing to add.
I am realizing that I have never freely acted based on my love alone.
I have never done anything outside of norm and acceptable boundary to express my love in anyway. This makes me wonder if I have ever loved deeply, passionately, or like crazy about anything that really matters.
I am now at the mid point of this lifetime and I am afraid that I would never risk anything for love. I mean really really love and be able to act on my love without fear. I am truly afraid....
TzuJanLi
16-01-2012, 05:18 AM
Greetings..
I Live for the Love of Living..
Be well..
Shabby
16-01-2012, 05:24 AM
Although I am not religious, I am drawn to various religious temples and churches where I can witness the love of its worshippers.
So, whenever I travel anywhere, I always visit the local spiritual/religious places. Often, whenever I see the amount of work, dedication, and time (some took many hundreds of years) that took to build these temples or churches, I am so amazed at the passion and love that the people have for their GOD/belief.
I was at an old local catholic church near where I live as a visitor the other day.
In this church, I saw an updated mural that listed names of new saints. Needless to say I did not recognize any of them. (Actually, I don't know any catholic saints old or new)
So naturally, I sat in the church and googled each name with my smartphone. :D
Oh boy.... These saints really knew how to love... I mean passionately love.... love for humanity and their GOD.
Here is one of them.
St Maximilian Kolbe - In Auschwitz during WWII, 10 men were condemned to be starved to death in an underground bunker in order to deter further escape attempts after 3 men escaped. Father Maximilian volunteered to take one of these men's place. This total stranger was a father and a husband and he was crying loudly about his family that he would never see again.
Father Max stepped forward and said, "I am a Catholic priest from Poland; I would like to take his place, because he has a wife and children." The switch was permitted and he died in the punitive cell.
He died for this total stranger.
His love for humanity amazed me.
All new saints are incredible examples of humanity and I am so glad to be in the same species as these people. They made me feel proud to be a human.
That's a great story on love in action. Thank you for sharing...that was truly a action of love on your part : )
TzuJanLi
16-01-2012, 06:16 AM
Greetings..
Although I am not religious, I am drawn to various religious temples and churches where I can witness the love of its worshippers.
So, whenever I travel anywhere, I always visit the local spiritual/religious places. Often, whenever I see the amount of work, dedication, and time (some took many hundreds of years) that took to build these temples or churches, I am so amazed at the passion and love that the people have for their GOD/belief.
I was at an old local catholic church near where I live as a visitor the other day.
In this church, I saw an updated mural that listed names of new saints. Needless to say I did not recognize any of them. (Actually, I don't know any catholic saints old or new)
So naturally, I sat in the church and googled each name with my smartphone. :D
Oh boy.... These saints really knew how to love... I mean passionately love.... love for humanity and their GOD.
Here is one of them.
St Maximilian Kolbe - In Auschwitz during WWII, 10 men were condemned to be starved to death in an underground bunker in order to deter further escape attempts after 3 men escaped. Father Maximilian volunteered to take one of these men's place. This total stranger was a father and a husband and he was crying loudly about his family that he would never see again.
Father Max stepped forward and said, "I am a Catholic priest from Poland; I would like to take his place, because he has a wife and children." The switch was permitted and he died in the punitive cell.
He died for this total stranger.
His love for humanity amazed me.
All new saints are incredible examples of humanity and I am so glad to be in the same species as these people. They made me feel proud to be a human.
Hi Nada: I served with a guy in Vietnam that we all knew as a rogue-ish sort, not religious 'at all', an annoyingly irritating prankster, and as likely to cheat a game of chance and take your money, as not.. on our way back from patrol, a skittish guy stepped on a particularly nasty anti-personnel mine, the 'bouncing Betty, a surplus left-over from WWII, and.. well, Mr. Unlike able, realizing that Mr. Skittish would likely jump off the mine and take several of us with him, Mr. Unlike-able pushed Mr. Skittish off the mine and smothered it with his own body.. the real 'Saints', do it simply because that's what they do in that situation, no 'religious' training, no motivating consciousness.. as far as those of there that day, we felt that Gary simply Loved Life, and when he 'did the math', his sacrifice allowed that many more people to 'Love Life'.. well, that's what we told ourselves, cause that's the only thing that made sense to us back then..
Sometimes, we just like the stories.. the stories about 'Saints', and 'Gods', and nice guys..
Be well..
Greetings..
Hi Nada: I served with a guy in Vietnam that we all knew as a rogue-ish sort, not religious 'at all', an annoyingly irritating prankster, and as likely to cheat a game of chance and take your money, as not.. on our way back from patrol, a skittish guy stepped on a particularly nasty anti-personnel mine, the 'bouncing Betty, a surplus left-over from WWII, and.. well, Mr. Unlike able, realizing that Mr. Skittish would likely jump off the mine and take several of us with him, Mr. Unlike-able pushed Mr. Skittish off the mine and smothered it with his own body.. the real 'Saints', do it simply because that's what they do in that situation, no 'religious' training, no motivating consciousness.. as far as those of there that day, we felt that Gary simply Loved Life, and when he 'did the math', his sacrifice allowed that many more people to 'Love Life'.. well, that's what we told ourselves, cause that's the only thing that made sense to us back then..
Sometimes, we just like the stories.. the stories about 'Saints', and 'Gods', and nice guys..
Be well..
Great story. Thanks for sharing. Mr. Unlike-able loved his buddies so he wanted his buddies to live.
I have never been a soldier but my understanding is that soldiers form strong bonds with their buddies in their unit. These bonds and love for each other keep them alive and make them brave in an extra ordinary circumstance.
3dnow
16-01-2012, 07:00 AM
Got rid of (my) pride.
I do it daily.
I love and accept your pride (if any)
I do it daily. ;-)
sound
16-01-2012, 11:01 AM
Ok,
WHAT HAVE YOU EVER DONE FOR LOVE? - If anything that is outside of your norm... that can be crazy, embarrassing,.. etc.
Love in action … nice idea for a thread Nada … my experience of motherhood is an expression of love in action … something came to mind for me … when my children were very young we were poor, and it was necessary sometimes to feign sickness and miss a meal so that my children had enough to ‘fill them up’ … it didn’t happen that often but we lived on a farm and were very isolated … we only travelled to the big smoke once a fortnight so on the odd occasion when we had unexpected bills to pay and couldn’t quite make ends meet that was a natural solution to the problem. My then partner was not aware of the ‘action’ because, well just because it was easier at the time to keep it quiet.
Its interesting … I haven’t told my children about that … to do so would serve no purpose. The action served its purpose at the time and wasn’t ever questioned by me.
I am sure there are many parents who have/would do the same and more for their children, so its not that extraordinary, however as a young person it was the first time in my life where I found myself with the choice to ‘go hungry’ which I suppose we probably only ever do for the love of ‘whatever’, whether it be to be slim or in protest or to avoid pain etc the list goes on … it was a new experience for me and revealed (to me) the strength/depth of my love for my children ...
I followed the thread, some very interesting stories too, but although I wish I could, I can't really think of anything, speshly in light of raising some rug rats, I'd only ever pale in comparison.
sound
16-01-2012, 11:11 AM
Who's comparing? ... i made some **** decisions too, as a parent, and realized had i been coming from a place of love in those instances i may have lessened my children's suffering in some other way that counted more ... most people suffer, to varying degrees, through their parents ignorance it seems, if individual stories are anything to go by ...
I died for love - but I'm feeling much better now. :smile:
Awesome! :icon_thumleft:
Shabby
16-01-2012, 04:20 PM
Who's comparing? ... i made some **** decisions too, as a parent, and realized had i been coming from a place of love in those instances i may have lessened my children's suffering in some other way that counted more ... most people suffer, to varying degrees, through their parents ignorance it seems, if individual stories are anything to go by ...
I see every parent doing their best with the knowledge and understanding they have at any given time.
Shabby
16-01-2012, 04:29 PM
I followed the thread, some very interesting stories too, but although I wish I could, I can't really think of anything, speshly in light of raising some rug rats, I'd only ever pale in comparison.
Don't feel bad...you are not alone. I searched and searched within my memory looking for something I could contribute to this thread but I can't find anything : (
Maybe it's easier to see what we don't do for love : )
sound
16-01-2012, 06:36 PM
I see every parent doing their best with the knowledge and understanding they have at any given time.
I dont Shabby, unfortunately ... I help children pick up the pieces and try to make some sense out of why the person who loves them hurts them ... thats off topic I know and will leave it there but yeah, it takes a lot of creative thinking to see abuse as parents doing the best they can with what they know and understand, and why it occurs
sesheta
16-01-2012, 06:51 PM
A great question, and one that I've been thinking about before replying :)
What did I do for love?
Split with my ex who, after almost a decade spent together, I realized I never truly loved as more than a friend...
Sold a house out in the country that I absolutely loved.
Found new homes for most of the cats my ex and I were caring for in that country house (we were going to open a no-kill cat shelter)...
Gave away or gave up many of my possessions, as I would not have room for them in my new place...
Moved an hour's drive away from where I was born & raised, to a town I had never been to, and know absolutely nobody, other than the man I am seeing now - the love of my life :)
But all of this made me realize that, in doing all of this "for love", it was not just for love of the man I am in a relationship with now...but also for love of myself. I was not happy with my ex, and doing everything I did has actually made me happy.
Don't feel bad...you are not alone. I searched and searched within my memory looking for something I could contribute to this thread but I can't find anything : (
Maybe it's easier to see what we don't do for love : )
Ditto
Most of us live and love within the safe confines of our balancing act between security and insecurity. And of course without risking our own survival.
I dont Shabby, unfortunately ... I help children pick up the pieces and try to make some sense out of why the person who loves them hurts them ... thats off topic I know and will leave it there but yeah, it takes a lot of creative thinking to see abuse as parents doing the best they can with what they know and understand, and why it occurs
Motherhood in most cases (Not all cases) is the ultimate act of love. Some are great mothers and some should not be mothers but they became one.
When I first witnessed a woman giving a birth, I realized that it really is a labor of love.
Birth of life is a miracle out of pain, risk, and absolute ugliness. - But emotionally beautiful at the same time
Mountain-Goat
16-01-2012, 07:04 PM
1997, 2 years after my wife left, I walked into the maternity ward.
My wife had just given birth to a boy. Her boyfriend, with whom she had been living with since she left, was the father.
All the nurses looked at me funny whan I said I was her husband and wanted to visit.
I walked into her room, she began to cry. I asked if I could hold her new born son.
I held her son as if he was my own.
I said I still love her and I will love her son, please come back.
She cried some more. She never came back.
--------------------
I chose to forego another partner, relinquish all desire for one during my single parenting days.
I saw how much pain my kids were in because their mother was with someone else.
I did not want to inflict any more pain than what they were already in.
----------------
I 've spent the last 20 years traversing scary and painful terrain as I embarked on a self discovery\healing journey.
I chose to not take the easy way out, to not avoid my weakneses, flaws, illnesses, wounds, things i was ashamed of, my fears, my mistakes, my regrets.
In a sea of self hatred\condemnation, I chose to love myself.
Love continues to grow well after the self hatred\condemnation has long gone.
------------
These acts of love, all the acts of love I have experienced, were never crazy, embarrassing or any other negative word you wish to use.
Acts of love are profoundly positive, life changing, revealing a side of life different from any other.
Sure, some acts may appear illogical, irrational, but love, according to my experiences, is the most logical and rational way to be.
It only appears illogical and irrational against the internal and social sea of illogicality and irrationality that has become the norm that one thinks that hate(for example) is logical and rational.
To be insulted when another insults you, to feel threatened, to be offended, to defend, to attack,
to criticise back, all appears to be the logical and rational way to be.
And to hug someone who has hurt you appears illogical and irrational.
But from a state of love it isn't.
Shabby
16-01-2012, 07:09 PM
I dont Shabby, unfortunately ... I help children pick up the pieces and try to make some sense out of why the person who loves them hurts them ... thats off topic I know and will leave it there but yeah, it takes a lot of creative thinking to see abuse as parents doing the best they can with what they know and understand, and why it occurs
I don't really think it's off topic Sound.... as love in action can be observed in a parent child relationship too. I know it is hard when you are on the front line and have to pick up the pieces, but who picked up the pieces for the parents when they were small? People only hurt people out of a pain they feel themselves. This is where we come in...love in action : )
Shabby
16-01-2012, 07:13 PM
1997, 2 years after my wife left, I walked into the maternity ward.
My wife had just given birth to a boy. Her boyfriend, with whom she had been living with since she left, was the father.
All the nurses looked at me funny whan I said I was her husband and wanted to visit.
I walked into her room, she began to cry. I asked if I could hold her new born son.
I held her son as if he was my own.
I said I still love her and I will love her son, please come back.
She cried some more. She never came back.
--------------------
I chose to forego another partner, relinquish all desire for one during my single parenting days.
I saw how much pain my kids were in because their mother was with someone else.
I did not want to inflict any more pain than what they were already in.
----------------
I 've spent the last 20 years traversing scary and painful terrain as I embarked on a self discovery\healing journey.
I chose to not take the easy way out, to not avoid my weakneses, flaws, illnesses, wounds, things i was ashamed of, my fears, my mistakes, my regrets.
In a sea of self hatred\condemnation, I chose to love myself.
Love continues to grow well after the self hatred\condemnation has long gone.
------------
These acts of love, all the acts of love I have experienced, were never crazy, embarrassing or any other negative word you wish to use.
Acts of love are profoundly positive, life changing, revealing a side of life different from any other.
Sure, some acts may appear illogical, irrational, but love, according to my experiences, is the most logical and rational way to be.
It only appears illogical and irrational against the internal and social sea of illogicality and irrationality that has become the norm that one thinks that hate(for example) is logical and rational.
To be insulted when another insults you, to feel threatened, to be offended, to defend, to attack,
to criticise back, all appears to be the logical and rational way to be.
And to hug someone who has hurt you appears illogical and irrational.
But from a state of love it isn't.
Wow...Alternate Carpark. You are not just acting out of love...but are love : )
sound
16-01-2012, 07:17 PM
I don't really think it's off topic Sound.... as love in action can be observed in a parent child relationship too. I know it is hard when you are on the front line and have to pick up the pieces, but who picked up the pieces for the parents when they were small? People only hurt people out of a pain they feel themselves. This is where we come in...love in action : )
I realize that .... the issues are very complex and there is the need for healing for both ... that is acknowledged and followed up when possible ...
1997, 2 years after my wife left, I walked into the maternity ward.
My wife had just given birth to a boy. Her boyfriend, with whom she had been living with since she left, was the father.
All the nurses looked at me funny whan I said I was her husband and wanted to visit.
I walked into her room, she began to cry. I asked if I could hold her new born son.
I held her son as if he was my own.
I said I still love her and I will love her son, please come back.
She cried some more. She never came back.
.
Alternate....
You are BRAVE in LOVE
You are GENEROUS in FORGIVENESS
I envy....
For I can never be...
Mountain-Goat
16-01-2012, 08:48 PM
Wow...Alternate Carpark. You are not just acting out of love...but are love : )
I acknowledge your sentiment Shabby, nor is my intent to criticise or devalue your view.
However, although I know I do not know the totally of what love is, but only my current understanding of it, my experiences of it,
saying "I am love" does not make sense to me.
If I were love, I would not be able to hate.
Yesterday, extremely fatigued after 4 hrs of mowing, I visited my brother, off loading the lawn clippings.
He made a joke about my comment that my doc reckons I may have heavy metal poisoning.
( that the poisoning may have something to do with the extreme fatigue)
I was not loving toward him, I left, I considered him a jerk, but soon afterward knew my behavior is due to the fatigue.
I am very irritable when I am fatigued.
So when these things happen, I simply can't accept I am love itself.
I see it this way. Each person has the capacity to love immensely.
Also the capacity to hate immensely.
It's when a person expresses anything immensely that self or others take note of it.
I don't adhee to the theory that love is all there is and eveything is love and those types of things.
I have been on a self discovery\healing\transformation journey, and yes, the ability to love beyond the socially accepted norm has emerged.
My experience in the maternity ward was my first experience of being loving regardless of "unloving" circumstances.
Well, the first one I was very aware of, in that it had a major impact on me.
An ability to love despite the pain and turmoil of my surface self.
It was not a fun 7 years, the grieving process of my wife leaving.
But to go to her and express genuine love in the midst of that, had showed me a deeper side to life I had not yet experienced.
I had already been in love with her for 10 years, but this deeper love was much more profound.
So yeah, I can understand you view, but to me, it's not. I have simply accessed a deeper understanding of it.
A deeper experience of love, which translates into a completey different evaluation\perception\understanding of life and myself and how I choose to interact within it.
So when you see, i am love, i see I'm just expressing a deeper version of it.
What I suppose one could classify as what some refer to as unconditional love.
The situaltion was not an influencing factor in my decision to love or not.
There was no conditions, I simply chose to love.
Mountain-Goat
16-01-2012, 09:00 PM
Alternate....
You are BRAVE in LOVE
You are GENEROUS in FORGIVENESS
I envy....
For I can never be...
If you believe you never can be, then you never will.
My wife informed me early on that she was pregnant, so it took me many months to get to the place where I could freely do what I did.
I had to traverse a lot of inner pain and turmoil to get there, but it was worth it.
I have discovered o my journey that I can be much more that i currently am a aware of.
I regard this is true for everyone.
saying "I am love" does not make sense to me.
If I were love, I would not be able to hate.
Stepping into this conversation, if you don't mind.... AC, this all depends on who you experience as "I".
The surface mind persona of thought and emotion contains the duality of love and hate.
Your inner being is singular... only love.
Xan
Mr Interesting
16-01-2012, 09:20 PM
What have I done for Love?
Nothing.
How often do I perceive Love? A little more each day.
silent whisper
16-01-2012, 09:25 PM
I acknowledge your sentiment Shabby, nor is my intent to criticise or devalue your view.
However, although I know I do not know the totally of what love is, but only my current understanding of it, my experiences of it,
saying "I am love" does not make sense to me.
If I were love, I would not be able to hate.
Yesterday, extremely fatigued after 4 hrs of mowing, I visited my brother, off loading the lawn clippings.
He made a joke about my comment that my doc reckons I may have heavy metal poisoning.
( that the poisoning may have something to do with the extreme fatigue)
I was not loving toward him, I left, I considered him a jerk, but soon afterward knew my behavior is due to the fatigue.
I am very irritable when I am fatigued.
So when these things happen, I simply can't accept I am love itself.
I see it this way. Each person has the capacity to love immensely.
Also the capacity to hate immensely.
It's when a person expresses anything immensely that self or others take note of it.
I don't adhee to the theory that love is all there is and eveything is love and those types of things.
I have been on a self discovery\healing\transformation journey, and yes, the ability to love beyond the socially accepted norm has emerged.
My experience in the maternity ward was my first experience of being loving regardless of "unloving" circumstances.
Well, the first one I was very aware of, in that it had a major impact on me.
An ability to love despite the pain and turmoil of my surface self.
It was not a fun 7 years, the grieving process of my wife leaving.
But to go to her and express genuine love in the midst of that, had showed me a deeper side to life I had not yet experienced.
I had already been in love with her for 10 years, but this deeper love was much more profound.
So yeah, I can understand you view, but to me, it's not. I have simply accessed a deeper understanding of it.
A deeper experience of love, which translates into a completey different evaluation\perception\understanding of life and myself and how I choose to interact within it.
So when you see, i am love, i see I'm just expressing a deeper version of it.
What I suppose one could classify as what some refer to as unconditional love.
The situaltion was not an influencing factor in my decision to love or not.
There was no conditions, I simply chose to love.
Loving and losing love can be a transformative process if one allows it to become that. Acknowledgement of how one feels and honouring those feelings no matter how bad they might feel.......is self love.
Acknowledgement of how one feels and honouring that feelings no matter how bad they might feel.......is [part of] self love.
Well said, sw.
Xan
When one has undue preferences for the higher and most pleasant feelings, he speaks like a floating guru, but if one acknowledges the actual and current experience, as it is, as it happens to any particular individual, then he faces what is in each moment, as it pertains to himself.
When one has undue preferences for the higher and most pleasant feelings, he speaks like a floating guru, but if one acknowledges the actual and current experience, as it is, as it happens to any particular individual, then he faces what is in each moment, as it pertains to himself.
...even if that is 'pleasant'?
Mountain-Goat
17-01-2012, 12:20 AM
saying "I am love" does not make sense to me.
If I were love, I would not be able to hate.
Stepping into this conversation, if you don't mind.... AC, this all depends on who you experience as "I".
The surface mind persona of thought and emotion contains the duality of love and hate.
Your inner being is singular... only love.
Xan
Xan, you have strong beliefs about this from your experiences.
I do not dispute your perceptual conclusions of your experiences.
If you believe the inner being is only love, you are free to do so.
I have not found this to be the case with my journey.
Is either or our conclusions from our experiences right or wrong?
Don't know, don't care.
Currently, though I use labels of 'inner', 'outer' 'surface' 'depth', this does not mean any of those places/elements/parts of self exist.
As I have been exploring, I see there in one me.
It appears there are separate parts to self, which helps in navigation, but when looked at from a state of stillness,
of total acceptance and love of self(according to my curent state of self awareness), there is only one me.
However, the contemplations of what is this love that is not influenced by externals or my own wounds,
I can see that you and others view this love as you do.
I just choose to explore the theories because there are elements that do not add up for me.
I am all of me, my inner, my outer and everything in between.
Nothing of me is false or not real.
I may be ignorant of all of me, but everything I currently know of me, is me.
Mountain-Goat
17-01-2012, 12:24 AM
Loving and losing love can be a transformative process if one allows it to become that. Acknowledgement of how one feels and honouring those feelings no matter how bad they might feel.......is self love.
Agreed. Self acceptance.
Accepting one's flaws, according to one's own judgement of what is flawed, to do this without shame, guilt, avoidance,
enables one to go into them and heal what needs healing.
Instead of avoiding, one lovingly embraces oneself, warts and all, in order to remove the warts( whatever one decides needs removing)
silent whisper
17-01-2012, 12:30 AM
yes when we can embrace the warts and all... in that moment...the warts feel just as special as the all...
Mountain-Goat
17-01-2012, 12:42 AM
"People will do anything, no matter how absurd, in order to avoid facing their own soul." - Carl Jung
Why? Because there's a lot of pain involved in doing so, for one thing, and fear of the unknown too.
I don't socialise much, never have, specially since a lot of my time is devoted to inner exploration.
But what I have noticed of the human species, and yes, I admit my lack of experience in doing so.
But I have noticed the last place people explore is themselves.
Of course, this is much less with the people here @ SF.
Generally, and i am not a fan of generalizations, but I choose to use it here.
Generally, people who are spiritually inclined do more self exploration than those that are not spiritually minded.
So my genaral observations is taken from all types of people, spiritual and non.
And most people i have encountered do not like to look within.
I was born with a strong enquiring mind, as I think, most children are.
But my enquiring mind stayed with me all my life and self exploration is natural to me.
It took me many years to accept that others do not self explore as I though everyone did.
Wanting to understand how things worked, problem solving, becoming more that what one currently is- inner growth.
Little did i know all those years that the simple process of enquiry/self exploration/challenging the status quo of soceity and self perception would result in so much healing, peqce , joy, understanding and the free flow of love.
And no concern about what is right or worng, but simply to accept what works and continue to build on that, knowing any current understanding is not the sum total of understanding.
That life is a continuous growth process, and as such, labeling things as absolute truths is not beneficial to an ever transforming life.
silent whisper
17-01-2012, 12:59 AM
"People will do anything, no matter how absurd, in order to avoid facing their own soul." - Carl Jung
Why? Because there's a lot of pain involved in doing so, for one thing, and fear of the unknown too.
I don't socialise much, never have, specially since a lot of my time is devoted to inner exploration.
But what I have noticed of the human species, and yes, I admit my lack of expereince in doing so,
But I have noticed the last palce people explore is themselves.
Of course, this is much less with the people here @ SF.
Generally, and i am not a fan of generalizations, but I choose to use it here.
Generally, people who are spiritually inclined do more self exploration than those that are not spiritually minded.
So my genaral observations is taken from all types of people, spiritual and non.
And most people i have encountered do not like to look within.
I was born with a strong enquiring mind, as I think, most children are.
But my enquiring mind stayed with me all my life and self exploration is natural to me.
Wanting to undertand how things worked, problem solving.
Little did i know all those years that the simple process of enquiry/self exploration/ challenging the status quo of soceity and self perception would result in so much healing, and the free flow of love.
Our greatest role models to non resistance to change are our earliest role models.. An enquiring mind is the joy, the pain of resistance comes when that joy is perceived in fear by those we look up to.
When a child decides he would like to add the entire bottle of shampoo into the bath to make lots and lots of bubbles..and he feels the joy in his discovery and moment of changing what was already there, a parent who then reacts to that discovery by scolding and being harsh...opens the child to learn to disempower themselves in that space of creating and discovery. Repeated patterns in this space convince the enquiring open mind tthat to create change for himself, projected fears from role models have shown that it is something to be feared...love moves us as children in ways we least suspect...as adults we are sometimes unaware of that love in action until we repeat the same mistake....and learn if we do get that chance.
Got rid of (my) pride.
I do it daily.
Yes, I have been tested many times... pride vs risking for love.
Pride wins every time.
I am a coward and I know it.
I collect love without working hard for it.
So... I like to say..
To those who love me
Risking their pride and ego
Thank you...
Please do not give up on me.
silent whisper
17-01-2012, 01:09 AM
Yes, I have been tested many times... pride vs risking for love.
Pride wins every time.
I am a coward and I know it.
I collect love without working hard for it.
So... I like to say..
To those who love me
Risking their pride and ego
Thank you...
Please do not give up on me.
For some that risk runs deep.....but for others who risked that deep, the pride they feel.....can only warm to a post like that...
Miss Hepburn
17-01-2012, 01:47 AM
Pride. Conditions.
Take human love.
If it is real love - do you stop loving when your son is in prison?
Do you stop loving when your puppy ruins your shoes?
Do you stop loving when your father drinks every night and ignores you?
Do you stop loving when your partner lies to you?
When you are in love - it never stops - and there is no room possible for pride
or conditions or lack of forgiveness 70 X 7.
Where there is light there is no place for any darkness. None, just can not exist there.
In love it is the same thing.
Or it is not love. Something else - in like, in need, in cling, in expectation, in you fulfill my needs and now you don't.
But it's not love. Love never dies and is always forgiving with no pride.
Love is a power beyond logic and thought of self.
It has no memory of past indescretions of any kind.
If you don't mind my input.
silent whisper
17-01-2012, 02:00 AM
Pride. Conditions.
Take human love.
If it is real love - do you stop loving when your son is in prison?
Do you stop loving when your puppy ruins your shoes?
Do you stop loving when your father drinks every night and ignores you?
Do you stop loving when your partner lies to you?
When you are in love - it never stops - and there is no room possible for pride
or conditions or lack of forgiveness 70 X 7.
Where there is light there is no place for any darkness. None, just can not exist there.
In love it is the same thing.
Or it is not love. Something else - in like, in need, in cling, in expectation, in you fulfill my needs and now you don't.
But it's not love. Love never dies and is always forgiving with no pride.
Love is a power beyond logic and thought of self.
It has no memory of past indescretions of any kind.
If you don't mind my input.
When it has existed it always exists...it has its place as much the light.
Miss Hepburn
17-01-2012, 04:09 AM
When it has existed it always exists...it has its place as much as the light.
But not in the same place is my point.
Can't happen, can't have light and darkness occupying the same place.
That's what I meant.
You have one or you have the other.
This is no judgement on darkness. :smile:
silent whisper
17-01-2012, 04:20 AM
But not in the same place is my point.
Can't happen, can't have light and darkness occupying the same place.
That's what I meant.
You have one or you have the other.
This is no judgement on darkness. :smile:
I am confused how you seperate the two...in this way...to me that almost feels like darkness will be eradicated by light...if that were the case would their be no room for those in the dark...it feels like seperation to me, when in fact the oneness of life is that everything is connected...so there is no seperation between the two...
I guess if thats your final submission I can accept that.
TzuJanLi
17-01-2012, 04:22 AM
Greetings..
But not in the same place is my point.
Can't happen, can't have light and darkness occupying the same place.
That's what I meant.
You have one or you have the other.
This is no judgement on darkness. :smile:
Hi Miss H: Darkness is always there, waiting.. it is necessary to "bring light into the darkness", as there is none naturally waiting.. but, let the lights flicker out, and the darkness is already there.. you don't heed to 'bring the darkness with you', it's always already there, waiting.. when the light fails, there is not a neutral condition, darkness is already there.. when you turn the lights out in the basement it does not grow slowly dimmer, the darkness is already there, always faithfully waiting.. it doesn't come from somewhere, and nothing makes it, it just is..
Be well..
Hi Miss H: Darkness is always there, waiting.. it is necessary to "bring light into the darkness", as there is none naturally waiting.. but, let the lights flicker out, and the darkness is already there.. you don't heed to 'bring the darkness with you', it's always already there, waiting.. when the light fails, there is not a neutral condition, darkness is already there.. when you turn the lights out in the basement it does not grow slowly dimmer, the darkness is already there, always faithfully waiting.. it doesn't come from somewhere, and nothing makes it, it just is..
I have already blown this to bits Tzu - why do you ignore the truth?
Silver
17-01-2012, 04:41 AM
I have already blown this to bits Tzu - why do you ignore the truth?
Just stop blowing things up, Humm! It's gone! It only exists in your mind.
:confused3: :happy7: :icon_colors: :smileinbox:
There's this old teaching story:
Light says, "I've heard about darkness but I've never seen it. Every time I go where they say darkness is it's gone."
Xan
Miss Hepburn
17-01-2012, 05:00 AM
I am confused how you seperate the two...in this way...to me that almost feels like darkness will be eradicated by light...if that were the case would their be no room for those in the dark...it feels like separation to me, when in fact the oneness of life is that everything is connected...so there is no separation between the two...
I guess if thats your final submission I can accept that.Oh, there's separation, alright - turn any light on in a room - darkness disappears.
Re this topic of love - if my cup is filled with pride, unforgiveness -
there is simply no room for true love. My cup is already full of something else.
Not that I like quoting the Bible alot, but if I may use another person's discription or explanation - I believe this to be true - no matter the source.
Paraphrased:
Love is patient and kind.
Not jealous or boastful.
Not arrogant or rude.
Not irritable or resentful.
Does not rejoice at wrong, but rejoices in the right.
Love bears all things, believes all things, hopes all things, endures all things.
Love never ends...
Make love your aim..
It is like an equation, something = something.
If one is impatient, it does not equal love - it equals impatience.
If one is irritable, it does not equal love.
If one finds happiness in your failures it is not love.
Now, if in someone's world, pride, irritability, impatience and rejoicing in the other's wrongs equals love,
I have nothing to say to that.
They can think as they like.
Except, to say "human" love has it's ups and owns - you can be
impatient, but still say in a minute you love your doggy.
I was talking about pure love itself.
It never has pride, impatience, unforgiveness.
silent whisper
17-01-2012, 05:05 AM
There's this old teaching story:
Light says, "I've heard about darkness but I've never seen it. Every time I go where they say darkness is it's gone."
Xan
Light would say that though would it not :tongue:
Can I be a spokesperson for the dark...I am sure darkness would have somthing to say about how it feels when entering the light...:D
silent whisper
17-01-2012, 05:06 AM
Oh, there's separation, alright - turn any light on in a room - darkness disappears.
Re this topic of love - if my cup is filled with pride, unforgiveness -
there is simply no room for true love. My cup is already full of something else.
Not that I like quoting the Bible alot, but if I may use another person's discription or explanation - I believe this to be true - no matter the source.
Paraphrased:
Love is patient and kind.
Not jealous or boastful.
Not arrogant or rude.
Not irritable or resentful.
Does not rejoice at wrong, but rejoices in the right.
Love bears all things, believes all things, hopes all things, endures all things.
Love never ends...
Make love your aim..
It is like an equation, something = something.
If one is impatient, it does not equal love - it equals impatience.
If one is irritable, it does not equal love.
If one finds happiness in your failures it is not love.
Now, if in someone's world, pride, irritability, impatience and rejoicing in the other's wrongs equals love,
I have nothing to say to that.
They can think as they like.
Except, to say "human" love has it's ups and owns - you can be
impatient, but still say in a minute you love your doggy.
I was talking about pure love itself.
It never has pride, impatience, unforgiveness.
Oh ok thankyou for your follow up submission, I see you more fully now.
silent whisper
17-01-2012, 05:09 AM
What if the man you see before you has a cup full of unforgivenss and pride..can you not make room to love him?
Royalite
17-01-2012, 05:11 AM
Allowed myself to experience and offer forgiveness.
Funny the aversion is now directed at darkness.
Light would say that though would it not :tongue:
Can I be a spokesperson for the dark...I am sure darkness would have somthing to say about how it feels when entering the light...:D
oops...................
Xan
Light would say that though would it not :tongue:
Can I be a spokesperson for the dark...I am sure darkness would have somthing to say about how it feels when entering the light...:D
We need both darkness and light....
Without darkness,
We would not appreciate light
A very good longtime friend reminded me of that when I was going through a dark time in my marriage.
Silver
17-01-2012, 05:16 AM
What if the man you see before you has a cup full of unforgivenss and pride..can you not make room to love him?
Very nice, sw.....I like.
silent whisper
17-01-2012, 05:17 AM
oops...................
Xan
Can you explain what oops means Xan in that response......that is the second time you have used it but I can only read what I read in it..are you able to expand on that please?
To me it feels like you slipped or something? :smile:
What if the man you see before you has a cup full of unforgivenss and pride..can you not make room to love him?
If just a cup (=8oz), OK.
But more than 8oz, NO.
Why?
Because I have my own 16oz full of unforgiveness and pride. :D
psychoslice
17-01-2012, 05:19 AM
Its not what I have done for love, its what love has done for me, that's everything.
silent whisper
17-01-2012, 05:20 AM
We need both darkness and light....
Without darkness,
We would not appreciate light
A very good longtime friend reminded me of that when I was going through a dark time in my marriage.
Yes this is true. While the light may enter the darkest times, the dark may not have entered others. If I hold the light for them. Am I not holding the dark as well?
silent whisper
17-01-2012, 05:20 AM
If just a cup (=8oz), OK.
But more than 8oz, NO.
Why?
Because I have my own 16oz full of unforgiveness and pride. :D
Thats is just precious..:smile:
Silver
17-01-2012, 05:22 AM
Who let all these Grasshoppers in here?
TzuJanLi
17-01-2012, 05:24 AM
Greetings..
There's this old teaching story:
Light says, "I've heard about darkness but I've never seen it. Every time I go where they say darkness is it's gone."
Xan
That's about right, but the Light doesn't stay long, too busy singing its own praises.. bravado, and 'see me, i am the light', but.. the fuel runs out, the light retreats, and the bravado can't find its way in the dark.. ever the teacher, Light lasts only as long as its fuel, but.. the darkness is still, silent, and patient, it was here before the Light, and will be here long after.. cliches are just the last fuel of a dying light..
Be well..
silent whisper
17-01-2012, 05:28 AM
Who let all these Grasshoppers in here?
Ah a tale of grasshopper came to mind..thankyou silvergirl..
Grasshopper and Toad appeared to be good friends. People always saw them together. Yet they had never dined at each other's houses. One day Toad said to Grasshopper, "Dear friend, tomorrow come and dine at my house. My wife and I will prepare a special meal. We will eat it together."
The next day Grasshopper arrived at Toad's house. Before sitting down to eat, Toad washed his forelegs, and invited Grasshopper to do the same. Grasshopper did so, and it made a loud noise.
"Friend Grasshopper, can't you leave your chirping behind. I cannot eat with such a noise," said Toad.
Grasshopper tried to eat without rubbing his forelegs together, but it was impossible. Each time he gave a chirp, Toad complained and asked him to be quiet. Grasshopper was angry and could not eat. Finally, he said to Toad: "I invite you to my house for dinner, tomorrow."
The next day, Toad arrived at Grasshopper's home. As soon as the meal was ready, Grasshopper washed his forelegs, and invited Toad to do the same. Toad did so, and then hopped toward the food.
"You had better go back and wash again," said Grasshopper. "All that hopping in the dirt has made your forelegs dirty again."
Toad hopped back to the water jar, washed again, then hopped back to the table, and was ready to reach out for some food from one of the platters when Grasshopper stopped him: "Please dorit put your dirty paws into the food. Go and wash them again."
Toad was furious. "You just don't want me to eat with you!" he cried. "You know very well that I must use my paws and forelegs in hopping about. I cannot help it if they get a bit dirty between the water jar and the table."
Grasshopper responded, "You are the one who started it yesterday. You know I cannot rub my forelegs together without making a noise."
From then on, they were no longer friends.
Moral: If you wish to have true friendship with someone, learn to accept each other's faults, as well as each other's good qualities.
:smile:
what have i done for love? endure because like devi says
Don't be afraid. Human birth is full of suffering and one has to endure everything patiently, taking the name of God. None, not even God in human form, can escape the sufferings of body and mind.
I tell you one thing my child -- if you want peace, do not find fault with others. Rather, see your own faults. Learn to make the world your own. No one is a stranger, my child; the whole world is your own.
(From Sri Sarada Devi's last words, spoken before passing away on July 20, 1920)
To err is human. One must not take that into account. It is harmful for oneself. One gets into the habit of finding fault...
To make mistakes is man's very nature; but few of those who criticize know how to correct them.
so applying this to my twin flame i know that he is going through changes if i wanna keep him and i so desperately do i have to be patient like the earth dealing with his bi polar tendencies wile he goes through kundalini <3devi!
Ah a tale of grasshopper came to mind..thankyou silvergirl..
Grasshopper and Toad appeared to be good friends. People always saw them together. Yet they had never dined at each other's houses. One day Toad said to Grasshopper, "Dear friend, tomorrow come and dine at my house. My wife and I will prepare a special meal. We will eat it together."
The next day Grasshopper arrived at Toad's house. Before sitting down to eat, Toad washed his forelegs, and invited Grasshopper to do the same. Grasshopper did so, and it made a loud noise.
"Friend Grasshopper, can't you leave your chirping behind. I cannot eat with such a noise," said Toad.
Grasshopper tried to eat without rubbing his forelegs together, but it was impossible. Each time he gave a chirp, Toad complained and asked him to be quiet. Grasshopper was angry and could not eat. Finally, he said to Toad: "I invite you to my house for dinner, tomorrow."
The next day, Toad arrived at Grasshopper's home. As soon as the meal was ready, Grasshopper washed his forelegs, and invited Toad to do the same. Toad did so, and then hopped toward the food.
"You had better go back and wash again," said Grasshopper. "All that hopping in the dirt has made your forelegs dirty again."
Toad hopped back to the water jar, washed again, then hopped back to the table, and was ready to reach out for some food from one of the platters when Grasshopper stopped him: "Please dorit put your dirty paws into the food. Go and wash them again."
Toad was furious. "You just don't want me to eat with you!" he cried. "You know very well that I must use my paws and forelegs in hopping about. I cannot help it if they get a bit dirty between the water jar and the table."
Grasshopper responded, "You are the one who started it yesterday. You know I cannot rub my forelegs together without making a noise."
From then on, they were no longer friends.
Moral: If you wish to have true friendship with someone, learn to accept each other's faults, as well as each other's good qualities.
:smile:
Good story :wink:
Yes this is true. While the light may enter the darkest times, the dark may not have entered others. If I hold the light for them. Am I not holding the dark as well?
Mmmm..
Let me think...
Well.
In nature, on the earth, darkness and light exist at the same time but at different location.
As in every relationships, just as nature on this earth, darkness and light rotate..
Some of us go through darkness while others may go through light. We all co-exist at the same time.
When darkness falls on us, we know and trust that there too will be light. We just have to work through the darkness so we are ready for light to arrive.
We appreciate light only after we go through the darkness. :D
Now..
How did this thread become
A place for light and darkness
I do not know...
But interesting still
It is...
Greetings..
That's about right, but the Light doesn't stay long, too busy singing its own praises.. bravado, and 'see me, i am the light', but.. the fuel runs out, the light retreats, and the bravado can't find its way in the dark.. ever the teacher, Light lasts only as long as its fuel, but.. the darkness is still, silent, and patient, it was here before the Light, and will be here long after.. cliches are just the last fuel of a dying light..
Be well..
For someone who has long demonized the 'personification' of Whatever he sure don't seem to mind personification when it suits his purposes.
But the thing is these descriptions are blatantly false. These metaphors for the 'dark' simply don't work. I have pointed this out, along with the basic verifiable scientific citations, numerous times.
But what can I do? I'm just stating what Is.
Oh, there's separation, alright - turn any light on in a room - darkness disappears.
Re this topic of love - if my cup is filled with pride, unforgiveness -
there is simply no room for true love. My cup is already full of something else.
Not that I like quoting the Bible alot, but if I may use another person's discription or explanation - I believe this to be true - no matter the source.
Paraphrased:
Love is patient and kind.
Not jealous or boastful.
Not arrogant or rude.
Not irritable or resentful.
Does not rejoice at wrong, but rejoices in the right.
Love bears all things, believes all things, hopes all things, endures all things.
Love never ends...
Make love your aim..
It is like an equation, something = something.
If one is impatient, it does not equal love - it equals impatience.
If one is irritable, it does not equal love.
If one finds happiness in your failures it is not love.
Now, if in someone's world, pride, irritability, impatience and rejoicing in the other's wrongs equals love,
I have nothing to say to that.
They can think as they like.
Except, to say "human" love has it's ups and owns - you can be
impatient, but still say in a minute you love your doggy.
I was talking about pure love itself.
It never has pride, impatience, unforgiveness.
This is beautiful.
What should we fill our cup with?
One should choose wisely.
Now..
How did this thread become
A place for light and darkness
I do not know...
But interesting still
It is...
Ya... I like it when it's all reduced to two sides. teehee
Ya... I like it when it's all reduced to two sides. teehee
Yes - I see Tzu changed his shirt.
Means nothing, I'm sure. :D
Miss Hepburn
17-01-2012, 05:08 PM
Somewhere the love - "just love itself" seems to have turned to relationship love -ok...cause there's family love, pet love, God love, neighbor love, self love, just feeling love period.
I'm not a counselor.
Can u love a pet that consistantly ruins things or a guy that has pride and meanness or a parent that is still negative and hurtful over decades ---ok, filled with unforgiveness and pride?
It's the love in ''you'' that matters - love loves period -whether "they" are
awful or not...love itself has no impatience, no pride, no unforgiveness, no meanness, doesn't rejoice in the other's pratfuls ---sees the best in the other and is hopeful and compassionate.
(Think of your son, a murderer, bank robber, a lifer in prison...apply all those to him...can u do that? Don't be answering to me...)
Somewhere the love - "just love itself" seems to have turned to relationship love -ok...cause there's family love, pet love, God love, neighbor love, self love, just feeling love period.
I'm not a counselor.
Can u love a pet that consistantly ruins things or a guy that has pride and meanness or a parent that is still negative and hurtful over decades ---ok, filled with unforgiveness and pride?
It's the love in ''you'' that matters - love loves period -whether "they" are
awful or not...love itself has no impatience, no pride, no unforgiveness, no meanness, doesn't rejoice in the other's pratfuls ---sees the best in the other and is hopeful and compassionate.
(Think of your son, a murderer, bank robber, a lifer in prison...apply all those to him...can u do that? Don't be answering to me...)
It's interesting we have a whole subforum devoted to 'relationship love', and the topics on love in this subforum are never diverted to the subforum on 'relationship love' - a tacit agreement that they are quite different things, IMO. :wink:
Silver
17-01-2012, 05:45 PM
Why don't we all just blanch the doo-doo out of human love~*
(Think of your son, a murderer, bank robber, a lifer in prison...apply all those to him...can u do that? Don't be answering to me...)
Considering LOVE is an action and not just a feeling inside of head.
Even you love your child, if your child hurts humanity in general or other innocent people, your love for your child should rise above to the greater love of humanity.
Therefore, you either stop your child from hurting others or even killing others by acting to protect others based on your LOVE for humanity, the greater love.
If the mother of Hitler, other Nazi psychopaths, Stalin, night stalker, green river killer, or other serial killers knows that her child is a monster, she should be able to stop loving her child and even be able to destroy her own child.
Our culture and our natural instinct make mothers to unconditionally love their children.
However, as a human being, she should be able to rise above her instinctive urge to blindly love her child.
Remember Ted Kaczynski? He was finally stopped from killing others because his family members turned him into the authority.
Sometimes, the unconditional love can be harmful to our humanity and to our spiritual growth --if it is purely based on the natural instinct.
Is it difficult to do?
Absolutely, that is the reason why ACTING on LOVE is difficult because it is more than just loving feeling/thoughts but DOING a right thing that is propelled by LOVE that is greater than you.
Silver
17-01-2012, 05:48 PM
Thank you, Nada.
Miss Hepburn
17-01-2012, 05:57 PM
If my son was a killer I would be the first one to turn him in - then I would love him in prison - visiting, encouraging, bringing food, inspirational books or other novels he liked, etc ---action, yes - not just a feeling in your heart.
TzuJanLi
17-01-2012, 05:57 PM
Greetings..
Considering LOVE is an action and not just a feeling inside of head.
Even you love your child, if your child hurts humanity in general or other innocent people, your love for your child should rise above to the greater love of humanity.
Therefore, you either stop your child from hurting others or even killing others by acting to protect others based on your LOVE for humanity, the greater love.
If the mother of Hitler, other Nazi psychopaths, Stalin, night stalker, green river killer, or other serial killers knows that her child is a monster, she should be able to stop loving her child and even be able to destroy her own child.
Our culture and our natural instinct make mothers to unconditionally love their children.
However, as a human being, she should be able to rise above her instinctive urge to blindly love her child.
Remember Ted Kaczynski? He was finally stopped from killing others because his family members turned him into the authority.
Sometimes, the unconditional love can be harmful to our humanity and to our spiritual growth --if it is purely based on the natural instinct.
Is it difficult to do?
Absolutely, that is the reason why ACTING on LOVE is difficult because it is more than just loving feeling/thoughts but DOING a right thing that is propelled by LOVE that is greater than you.
Hi Nada: Yes, there is the greater Love of Life itself, and.. if your offspring is imposing his/her misunderstandings on others by ending their right to Live, there is a greater Love, a greater obligation to Life itself..
Be well..
Smiler
17-01-2012, 06:29 PM
In one discussion I made the decision to give a man who wanted to be a father a child. (he is a great father )... My thought was "who am I not to give this man who is to be a great father a child"
And what a gorgeous Soul our son is. I raised our son till school age and then his father took over raising him after that..as planned on that evening of his contraception... My home I left ..and is to be our son's when he is an adult .
Love
:)
silent whisper
17-01-2012, 06:50 PM
Considering LOVE is an action and not just a feeling inside of head.
Even you love your child, if your child hurts humanity in general or other innocent people, your love for your child should rise above to the greater love of humanity.
Therefore, you either stop your child from hurting others or even killing others by acting to protect others based on your LOVE for humanity, the greater love.
If the mother of Hitler, other Nazi psychopaths, Stalin, night stalker, green river killer, or other serial killers knows that her child is a monster, she should be able to stop loving her child and even be able to destroy her own child.
Our culture and our natural instinct make mothers to unconditionally love their children.
However, as a human being, she should be able to rise above her instinctive urge to blindly love her child.
Remember Ted Kaczynski? He was finally stopped from killing others because his family members turned him into the authority.
Sometimes, the unconditional love can be harmful to our humanity and to our spiritual growth --if it is purely based on the natural instinct.
Is it difficult to do?
Absolutely, that is the reason why ACTING on LOVE is difficult because it is more than just loving feeling/thoughts but DOING a right thing that is propelled by LOVE that is greater than you.
OH now we are getting to the space of "tough love and boundaries". Love in action does require it at times Nada, you are right. That is unconditional love in action....and often times it comes from self love, compassion and whatever else is in the mix.
Can you explain what oops means Xan in that response......that is the second time you have used it but I can only read what I read in it..are you able to expand on that please?
To me it feels like you slipped or something? :smile:
Sorry... too obscure I guess. In this instance I meant "oops" might be something darkness would say when encountering light, as it disappears.
Xan
Now..
How did this thread become
A place for light and darkness
I do not know...
But interesting still
It is...
Well, light itself
- the self-effulgent kind -
does have everything to do
with love itself
- the for-no-reason kind.
Xan
Well, light itself
- the self-effulgent kind -
does have everything to do
with love itself
- the for-no-reason kind.
Xan
Inspired! :hug3:
It's interesting we have a whole subforum devoted to 'relationship love', and the topics on love in this subforum are never diverted to the subforum on 'relationship love' - a tacit agreement that they are quite different things, IMO. :wink:
hmmm... not quite, Humm.
Here's this one, for instance: Your Transforming Heart - http://www.spiritualforums.com/vb/showthread.php?t=3684
and this: Romantic love, Spiritual love - http://www.spiritualforums.com/vb/showthread.php?t=3687
and mentions of 'love within' occasionally pop up in relationship discussions.
Xan
hmmm... not quite, Humm.
Here's this one, for instance: Your Transforming Heart - http://www.spiritualforums.com/vb/showthread.php?t=3684
and this: Romantic love, Spiritual love - http://www.spiritualforums.com/vb/showthread.php?t=3687
and mentions of 'love within' occasionally pop up in relationship discussions.
Xan
I was just looking at those!
Odd - sorta. :wink:
TzuJanLi
17-01-2012, 09:15 PM
Greetings..
Sorry... too obscure I guess. In this instance I meant "oops" might be something darkness would say when encountering light, as it disappears.
Xan
LOL.. no, darkness waits quietly, patiently.. Light yammers about for a while then moves on to the next place where its yammering is kindly tolerated, until it leaves and rest is again embraced..
Darkness is still, and quiet.. it is the 'Light Bringers' boasting and making their claims, and poking at the darkness, 'oops'.. the fallacy, is that darkness disappears, it's always right there, with you every moment, waiting patiently, quietly.. you will close your eyes, and drift into darkness to escape the noisy and abrasive light, that is where you rejuvenate and renew.. it is where you prepare to endure the harshness of light's insistence that it is superior..
You carry darkness with you, just close your eyes, it right there.. light, though, it needs fuel, it has to burn energy, and.. when it's done, there's nothing left but the darkness, we all know this is so.. the mass of the Universe is estimated to be 83% dark matter, light is an anomaly, useful but not necessary.. 'feeling' doesn't need light, and so many other systems 'sense' much more completely.. 'light' is such a narrow band of the electromagnetic spectrum, so much more depth and scope in the 'darkness', but... light will weave its stories, enchanting those with weak desires to do its bidding.. darkness just waits patiently, soon it will welcome you again, to that deep and peaceful sleep..
Be well..
Silver
17-01-2012, 09:23 PM
Greetings..
LOL.. no, darkness waits quietly, patiently.. Light yammers about for a while then moves on to the next place where its yammering is kindly tolerated, until it leaves and rest is again embraced..
Darkness is still, and quiet.. it is the 'Light Bringers' boasting and making their claims, and poking at the darkness, 'oops'.. the fallacy, is that darkness disappears, it's always right there, with you every moment, waiting patiently, quietly.. you will close your eyes, and drift into darkness to escape the noisy and abrasive light, that is where you rejuvenate and renew.. it is where you prepare to endure the harshness of light's insistence that it is superior..
You carry darkness with you, just close your eyes, it right there.. light, though, it needs fuel, it has to burn energy, and.. when it's done, there's nothing left but the darkness, we all know this is so.. the mass of the Universe is estimated to be 83% dark matter, light is an anomaly, useful but not necessary.. 'feeling' doesn't need light, and so many other systems 'sense' much more completely.. 'light' is such a narrow band of the electromagnetic spectrum, so much more depth and scope in the 'darkness', but... light will weave its stories, enchanting those with weak desires to do its bidding.. darkness just waits patiently, soon it will welcome you again, to that deep and peaceful sleep..
Be well..
I think that's very creative ~ for someone in the dark!
:D
escape the noisy and abrasive light
hmmm.... not the light I was thinking of really...
Xan
TzuJanLi
17-01-2012, 09:42 PM
Greetings..
escape the noisy and abrasive light
hmmm.... not the light I was thinking of really...
Xan
Tis true, 'the hammer cannot hit itself'..
Be well..
silent whisper
17-01-2012, 09:44 PM
Sorry... too obscure I guess. In this instance I meant "oops" might be something darkness would say when encountering light, as it disappears.
Xan
ah I see now....the light just came on for me...when one is in the dark about others meanings sometimes one needs to reappear not disappear to clarify..
TzuJanLi
17-01-2012, 09:44 PM
Greetings..
I think that's very creative ~ for someone in the dark!
:D
Hi SG: Thanks.. i prefer balance, but.. sometimes one extreme must be balanced with another..
Be well..
silent whisper
17-01-2012, 09:48 PM
Greetings..
LOL.. no, darkness waits quietly, patiently.. Light yammers about for a while then moves on to the next place where its yammering is kindly tolerated, until it leaves and rest is again embraced..
Darkness is still, and quiet.. it is the 'Light Bringers' boasting and making their claims, and poking at the darkness, 'oops'.. the fallacy, is that darkness disappears, it's always right there, with you every moment, waiting patiently, quietly.. you will close your eyes, and drift into darkness to escape the noisy and abrasive light, that is where you rejuvenate and renew.. it is where you prepare to endure the harshness of light's insistence that it is superior..
You carry darkness with you, just close your eyes, it right there.. light, though, it needs fuel, it has to burn energy, and.. when it's done, there's nothing left but the darkness, we all know this is so.. the mass of the Universe is estimated to be 83% dark matter, light is an anomaly, useful but not necessary.. 'feeling' doesn't need light, and so many other systems 'sense' much more completely.. 'light' is such a narrow band of the electromagnetic spectrum, so much more depth and scope in the 'darkness', but... light will weave its stories, enchanting those with weak desires to do its bidding.. darkness just waits patiently, soon it will welcome you again, to that deep and peaceful sleep..
Be well..
Oh man this makes me want to curl up and tuck myself into bed.......in a good way of course..:wink:
Greetings..
LOL.. no, darkness waits quietly, patiently.. Light yammers about for a while then moves on to the next place where its yammering is kindly tolerated, until it leaves and rest is again embraced..
Darkness is still, and quiet.. it is the 'Light Bringers' boasting and making their claims, and poking at the darkness, 'oops'.. the fallacy, is that darkness disappears, it's always right there, with you every moment, waiting patiently, quietly.. you will close your eyes, and drift into darkness to escape the noisy and abrasive light, that is where you rejuvenate and renew.. it is where you prepare to endure the harshness of light's insistence that it is superior..
You carry darkness with you, just close your eyes, it right there.. light, though, it needs fuel, it has to burn energy, and.. when it's done, there's nothing left but the darkness, we all know this is so.. the mass of the Universe is estimated to be 83% dark matter, light is an anomaly, useful but not necessary.. 'feeling' doesn't need light, and so many other systems 'sense' much more completely.. 'light' is such a narrow band of the electromagnetic spectrum, so much more depth and scope in the 'darkness', but... light will weave its stories, enchanting those with weak desires to do its bidding.. darkness just waits patiently, soon it will welcome you again, to that deep and peaceful sleep..
Be well..
Such stillness and quiet as you exemplify the light has never seen, that's for sure! :D
Silver
17-01-2012, 09:59 PM
Oh man this makes me want to curl up and tuck myself into bed.......in a good way of course..:wink:
The darkness is very relaxing.
:hug3:
The darkness is very relaxing.
:hug3:
Relaxation is relaxing - darkness is the realm of the blind.
Silver
17-01-2012, 10:08 PM
Relaxation is relaxing - darkness is the realm of the blind.
Are you kidding me??? Omg...what's happened to you? :confused2:
When you close your eyes, do you not see memories of your life?
Remember the movie, Mask when he was 'showing' the blind girl what clouds 'looked' like?
My dreams may be weird, but I can see them when I'm not even conscious.
It's a wonderful realm, eyes closed or shut ~ it's a closed mind that's 'blind'.
Are you kidding me??? Omg...what's happened to you? :confused2:
When you close your eyes, do you not see memories of your life?
Remember the movie, Mask when he was 'showing' the blind girl what clouds 'looked' like?
My dreams may be weird, but I can see them when I'm not even conscious.
It's a wonderful realm, eyes closed or shut ~ it's a closed mind that's 'blind'.
How is envisioning anything 'darkness'?
Perhaps you're right, it must be me - I don't get any of that.
TzuJanLi
17-01-2012, 10:13 PM
Greeting..
darkness is the realm of the blind.
Those that can't 'see in the dark' make such a claim.. those that are enchanted by their self-imposed limitations..
Be well..
Silver
17-01-2012, 10:21 PM
How is envisioning anything 'darkness'?
Perhaps you're right, it must be me - I don't get any of that.
How is envisioning not everything, including dark and light?
....Blinded by the Light......:cool:
In one discussion I made the decision to give a man who wanted to be a father a child. (he is a great father )... My thought was "who am I not to give this man who is to be a great father a child"
And what a gorgeous Soul our son is. I raised our son till school age and then his father took over raising him after that..as planned on that evening of his contraception... My home I left ..and is to be our son's when he is an adult .
Love
:)
Wow.
You must loved this man??
So, were you acting on love for this man? = having his child?
Or did you want to have a child as well? And since he was going to be a great father, did you decide to have a child together?
How is envisioning not everything, including dark and light?
....Blinded by the Light......:cool:
I see.
I suppose I could go on making rational counter arguments about the metaphor, and you and Tzu would keep coming up with your own ad infinitum. That's not a problem, that's the beauty of rationality - it accepts any master.
But remember it's not about who has a better argument, or who can make a sharper point - though there are those who are enchanted by theirs - it's really about what the archetype Is, and there is a fundamental difference there that it appears each has come to terms with, that each is willing to accept.
Alrighty then - I can be satisfied with that if Tzu can.
silent whisper
18-01-2012, 12:18 AM
Relaxation is relaxing - darkness is the realm of the blind.
Then we are all blind?
If I am in the darkness realm I am blind.........but if I am a in light realm and I can see the darkness....then I am blind too.
Silver
18-01-2012, 12:27 AM
I see.
I suppose I could go on making rational counter arguments about the metaphor, and you and Tzu would keep coming up with your own ad infinitum. That's not a problem, that's the beauty of rationality - it accepts any master.
But remember it's not about who has a better argument, or who can make a sharper point - though there are those who are enchanted by theirs - it's really about what the archetype Is, and there is a fundamental difference there that it appears each has come to terms with, that each is willing to accept.
Alrighty then - I can be satisfied with that if Tzu can.
:hug:
What I see is that we can all be a little too glib and a lot of fancy footwork with our words (if only feet could talk!) ~ I also think I see that there's no real need for choosing up sides when I believe that we are perhaps struggling, in varying degrees to see what we can see and/or deepen what we think we believe ~ struggling to have a firmer hold on our present way of believing ~ with many of us, if not most, we seem to suffer different degrees of insecurity(?) ~ no matter how sure we seem to come across or at least appear to come across is that just one of us or one group of us has a stronger case, as opposed to just a bunch of individuals living their lives (otherwise known as just simply walking our 'paths' and making our unique discoveries as we go along).
silent whisper
18-01-2012, 12:44 AM
:hug:
What I see is that we can all be a little too glib and a lot of fancy footwork with our words (if only feet could talk!) ~ I also think I see that there's no real need for choosing up sides when I believe that we are perhaps struggling, in varying degrees to see what we can see and/or deepen what we think we believe ~ struggling to have a firmer hold on our present way of believing ~ with many of us, if not most, we seem to suffer different degrees of insecurity(?) ~ no matter how sure we seem to come across or at least appear to come across is that just one of us or one group of us has a stronger case, as opposed to just a bunch of individuals living their lives (otherwise known as just simply walking our 'paths' and making our unique discoveries as we go along).
Words are just meaningful expressions of meaningless meanings yes?
what you see is valid for yourself silvergirl.
and in your sharing, those who wish to see what you see will see.
open sharing offers that to all, some, none or one who may see and connect, but the most extraordinary aspect in all this is we are all gifted with the wonderful expressive voice to share our internal goings on and in that space provide wonderful spaces to connect fully and be our true authentic selves that we all are..
I enjoyed what you had to say. thankyou for sharing.
:hug:
What I see is that we can all be a little too glib and a lot of fancy footwork with our words (if only feet could talk!) ~ I also think I see that there's no real need for choosing up sides when I believe that we are perhaps struggling, in varying degrees to see what we can see and/or deepen what we think we believe ~ struggling to have a firmer hold on our present way of believing ~ with many of us, if not most, we seem to suffer different degrees of insecurity(?) ~ no matter how sure we seem to come across or at least appear to come across is that just one of us or one group of us has a stronger case, as opposed to just a bunch of individuals living their lives (otherwise known as just simply walking our 'paths' and making our unique discoveries as we go along).
I'm not the one who goes on about the dangers of suckering the unaware, or what kind of posting is indefensible, then sing the praises of 'darkness' - which we should all do, because it's just so common and easy, of all things!
It's about insecurity all right, and I can't think of someone who has more right to be.
Frankly, it just boggles my mind the things I've been seeing lately, but I guess I must just be easily boggle-able, so I should bow out - and I think agreement is a great place to leave it.
Silver
18-01-2012, 12:56 AM
I'm not the one who goes on about the dangers of suckering the unaware, or what kind of posting is indefensible, then sing the praises of 'darkness' - which we should all do, because it's just so common and easy, of all things!
It's about insecurity all right, and I can't think of someone who has more right to be - and I think agreement is a great place to leave that.
I'm glad you're not feeling insecure...if you are talkin' to me and you're saying that I'm insecure, well, that's all right because I remain open to what may come in my life and on my path (just livin' my life kind of path). And I can say that from my present vantage, I can accept where more than one person is coming from. It's a nice view from where I'm at.
silent whisper
18-01-2012, 01:04 AM
I'm glad you're not feeling insecure...if you are talkin' to me and you're saying that I'm insecure, well, that's all right because I remain open to what may come in my life and on my path (just livin' my life kind of path). And I can say that from my present vantage, I can accept where more than one person is coming from. It's a nice view from where I'm at.
Remaining open is a great tool for the growth on your path....acceptance too.
silent whisper
18-01-2012, 01:10 AM
I'm not the one who goes on about the dangers of suckering the unaware, or what kind of posting is indefensible, then sing the praises of 'darkness' - which we should all do, because it's just so common and easy, of all things!
It's about insecurity all right, and I can't think of someone who has more right to be.
Frankly, it just boggles my mind the things I've been seeing lately, but I guess I must just be easily boggle-able, so I should bow out - and I think agreement is a great place to leave it.
I hope that doesnt mean your leaving humm. you are very valuable and wise soul to this forum, your heart gives freely and I feel your presence as you know,regardless of what I or others express. Their is a sense of giving up the battle in your words..I could be wrong......so please dont take my words as truth to yours. I would miss you if you leave...and I mean that truly from my heart. :hug3:
I wonder if we're swinging back and forth here between physical and/or metaphorical light and darkness, and the non-physical sort which is what I'm talking about.
In the inner realm of the universe there's a velvety darkness (which my friend calls the 'dark mother') that is total comfort. It's not the absence of the clear light of empty awareness but another expression of pure being.
Then there's the metaphoric light of "ah ha" clarity, and the symbolic darkness of seeing in a closet in a way, having a narrow and negative view.
Non-physical/spiritual light, either bright or soft, is an original expression of creation ("Let there be light.") and comes with delicious feelings of bliss (speaking from my own experience, of course).
Xan
I can say that from my present vantage, I can accept where more than one person is coming from. It's a nice view from where I'm at.
Yes, a nice view indeed, Silvergirl.
Xan
athribiristan
18-01-2012, 04:11 AM
um...everything. Yep, pretty much everything I've ever done has been for Love.
Smiler
18-01-2012, 04:51 AM
Nada
Quote : Wow.
You must loved this man??
So, were you acting on love for this man? = having his child?
Or did you want to have a child as well? And since he was going to be a great father, did you decide to have a child together? __________
The gift was to give this man the child he yearned ...I had two teenagers ..at the time . I had a spiritual experience upon meeting this man ..he was surround in a white light. I was not IN LOVE with him ..He talk one night ..I listened ..and made the decision that we would ..( that night) .
We discussed and planned in detail the life for the child to come.
In the Bedroom ..I had another spiritual experience ...The room turned a Deep Bright Purple.
The next day I thought "I must be mad" I was 37 yrs old ..
Our child was conceived that night.
We both knew he was a boy .. this was confirmed at 12 weeks into the pregnancy. The father and Myself called out the same name at the same Time
Thomas.
If Angels are walking this earth " Thomas " is one of them .
:)
Silver
18-01-2012, 04:54 AM
We both knew he was a boy .. this was confirmed at 12 weeks into the pregnancy. The father and Myself called out the same name at the same Time
Thomas.
It doesn't get any wilder n that ~ no words.
Nada
Quote : Wow.
You must loved this man??
So, were you acting on love for this man? = having his child?
Or did you want to have a child as well? And since he was going to be a great father, did you decide to have a child together? __________
The gift was to give this man the child he yearned ...I had two teenagers ..at the time . I had a spiritual experience upon meeting this man ..he was surround in a white light. I was not IN LOVE with him ..He talk one night ..I listened ..and made the decision that we would ..( that night) .
We discussed and planned in detail the life for the child to come.
In the Bedroom ..I had another spiritual experience ...The room turned a Deep Bright Purple.
The next day I thought "I must be mad" I was 37 yrs old ..
Our child was conceived that night.
We both knew he was a boy .. this was confirmed at 12 weeks into the pregnancy. The father and Myself called out the same name at the same Time
Thomas.
If Angels are walking this earth " Thomas " is one of them .
:)
Smiler,
Thank you so much for sharing your story. Your story took my breath away and made me tearful with openness.
Some days, we need some kind of validation about spirituality and destiny that take us there.
Your story took me one more step closer to where I must be heading.
I don't see or know my destiny but I know that I am on a right path.
So, thank you.
TzuJanLi
18-01-2012, 05:49 AM
Greetings..
It seems that what 'we' are doing is describing our preferences for describing our experiences, or describing our beliefs about those experiences.. some people use 'poetic license' and metaphor so much that they transpose the descriptions with the experiences they are describing..
I am fond of simply paying attention to what is happening.. and, reporting what i see with as little ambiguity as the situation suggests is useful.. so, occasionally i see people so attached to metaphor and symbolism, that simplicity, when used as a foundation for communication, is no longer acceptable to their understanding.. the preference for riddle and metaphor and symbolism conceals the desire that ambiguity and complexity add meaning to a Life either misunderstood or unacceptable on its own terms..
Facing Life as the Great Mystery, is unacceptable for some, for many actually.. so, rather than truly being present, right here right Now, and allowing the Great Mystery reveal itself on its own terms, people imagined and continue to imagine beliefs, religions, philosophies,, etc... because they are too impatient to wait and see what really happens..
There is 'light and dark', Light occupying a narrow band of the electromagnetic spectrum, and Dark as a visual reference encompasses vastly much more.. conversely, in metaphor and symbolism, Light is the abundance, the activity, the chatter, the pretty shiny things that attract and distract.. what is observable, to the still mind, is the efforts people will go to to craft metaphor and symbolism to represent what they want people to accept as valid..
We live in word where whatever is imagined can be written into story, claimed to be true, and protected as free speech.. where corporations are 'people', and 'people are not 'real'.. what i have done "for LOVE", is try to tell it like it 'is'.. first, being radically honest with myself, then.. as honest as decorum permits with others..
Be well..
Mr Interesting
18-01-2012, 07:58 AM
One earlier post by Tzu kinda did it for me when he described an un-likeable man doing something to save others... without having time to think whether it was a good idea.
For me it was the unthinking part that counted.
I remember the bad stuff but the good stuff isn't memorized. It seems like stuff that happens when we moving with love is just so consuming it can't be remembered.
Saying that I can remember stuff I thought I was doing was for love but I was doing because of a sense of duty or a way to clarify my own worthiness...
I have vague recollections of stuff that was lots of fun, just little snatches within the hilarity, and I have a vague suspicion that I was questioning myself and what I was doing at the time... was it foolish, do people see me as an idiot... but then I'd go back to having fun and memory ceases...
My opinion is that when love comes through us the ego is suspended and we can't remember this in any detail but if self doubt comes in within this action... this we will remember.
So again "I" have never done anything for love as it is my belief that it may actually be impossible for the ego to be love. When love happens "i" am suspended.
One earlier post by Tzu kinda did it for me when he described an un-likeable man doing something to save others... without having time to think whether it was a good idea.
For me it was the unthinking part that counted.
I remember the bad stuff but the good stuff isn't memorized. It seems like stuff that happens when we moving with love is just so consuming it can't be remembered.
Saying that I can remember stuff I thought I was doing was for love but I was doing because of a sense of duty or a way to clarify my own worthiness...
I have vague recollections of stuff that was lots of fun, just little snatches within the hilarity, and I have a vague suspicion that I was questioning myself and what I was doing at the time... was it foolish, do people see me as an idiot... but then I'd go back to having fun and memory ceases...
My opinion is that when love comes through us the ego is suspended and we can't remember this in any detail but if self doubt comes in within this action... this we will remember.
So again "I" have never done anything for love as it is my belief that it may actually be impossible for the ego to be love. When love happens "i" am suspended.
Ok... I was wondering why I couldn't think of anything I did for love, prolly coz "but then I'd go back to having fun and memory ceases..."
TzuJanLi
18-01-2012, 02:52 PM
Greetings..
One earlier post by Tzu kinda did it for me when he described an un-likeable man doing something to save others... without having time to think whether it was a good idea.
For me it was the unthinking part that counted.
I remember the bad stuff but the good stuff isn't memorized. It seems like stuff that happens when we moving with love is just so consuming it can't be remembered.
Saying that I can remember stuff I thought I was doing was for love but I was doing because of a sense of duty or a way to clarify my own worthiness...
I have vague recollections of stuff that was lots of fun, just little snatches within the hilarity, and I have a vague suspicion that I was questioning myself and what I was doing at the time... was it foolish, do people see me as an idiot... but then I'd go back to having fun and memory ceases...
My opinion is that when love comes through us the ego is suspended and we can't remember this in any detail but if self doubt comes in within this action... this we will remember.
So again "I" have never done anything for love as it is my belief that it may actually be impossible for the ego to be love. When love happens "i" am suspended.
Hi Mr. I: i apologize in advance, for using this post to make a point, but it's a huge point.. Here's a classic example of 'getting it', then falling into the 'Spiritual' conditioning of making up a 'story' to explain 'it' in a 'Spiritual' way.. the "I" probably saved my life back then, your "I" has very likely done much 'for Love'.. while i have no use for the term, 'ego', i will use it in the context of the quoted post.. it is also the thought processes labeled 'ego' that tells stories about 'Spirituality', that tries to explain Life in terms that separate "I", and "ego", and 'fun', and 'Love', into Spiritual categories, and degrees of Spiritual and non-spiritual.. just look at the closed threads and competing explanations of the 'most Spiritual' understandings many members are trying to campaign for, yes, me too, i get that... but..
The 'good times' you say you can't remember, stop trying to remember.. they didn't get stuck in a mental filing cabinet, those memories became 'who you are'.. in the 'still and silent' intervals of your being those 'memories' are 'felt', touched again, and.. in the activities of Life's busy-ness, those memories make-up our natural inclinations, they are 'who we are'...
Be well..
Shabby posted the following poem by Mother Teresa (one of my heroes who truly lived by acting on LOVE) in the poem section and I thought that this poem belongs here as well......
Inspiring...
If you are kind, people may accuse you of selfish ulterior motives.
Be kind anyway.
If you are successful, you will win some false friends and some true enemies.
Be successful anyway.
If you are honest and frank, people may cheat you.
Be honest and frank anyway.
What you spend years building, someone could destroy overnight.
Build anyway.
If you find serenity and happiness, some people may be jealous.
Be happy anyway.
The good you do today, people will often forget tomorrow.
Do good anyway.
Give the world the best you have, and it may never be enough.
Give the world the best you have anyway.
You see, in the final analysis, it is between you and God.
It never was between you and them anyway."
-- Mother Theresa --
Silver
18-01-2012, 03:39 PM
That's a wonder poem, thanks Nada.
Seawolf
18-01-2012, 04:44 PM
Love is an action we should take every day and every moment. Whether it's doing something for someone else or for yourself, or whether it's a physical action or a mental action. The opportunity presents itself almost constantly. If you practice loving yourself and others it just becomes a habit. One loving action is to share with others on this forum things we can actually DO in our day to day life that work to heal and change our lives. To me, the best posts are the ones that give useful information that we can apply to our day to day and makes a change for us. When I see posts like that I think how wonderful and loving it is.
What Mother Theresa said....
Xan
Silver
18-01-2012, 05:58 PM
Love is an action we should take every day and every moment. Whether it's doing something for someone else or for yourself, or whether it's a physical action or a mental action. The opportunity presents itself almost constantly. If you practice loving yourself and others it just becomes a habit. One loving action is to share with others on this forum things we can actually DO in our day to day life that work to heal and change our lives. To me, the best posts are the ones that give useful information that we can apply to our day to day and makes a change for us. When I see posts like that I think how wonderful and loving it is.
Worth a repeat, Seawolf
Mr Interesting
19-01-2012, 06:41 AM
Hey Tzu, sweet as...
We are indeed the stories we tell... until we stop telling our own and others arrive to tell them of us.
Make your myths up as you go... so the children's children have bones.
The memories do make us and how could we be other than the product of our past? What other reference is there for a perspective.
I find the problem with 'True Self' preaching is... the distinction between the form we live as and the constancy of awareness is considered real, but I feel it most accurate to say ... this is my expression.
(Of course, I find these silly love threads so sickly sweet :icon_puke_r: ...but that's just the kinda guy I am.) teehee
silent whisper
19-01-2012, 07:49 AM
The memories do make us and how could we be other than the product of our past? What other reference is there for a perspective.
I find the problem with 'True Self' preaching is... the distinction between the form we live as and the constancy of awareness is considered real, but I feel it most accurate to say ... this is my expression.
(Of course, I find these silly love threads so sickly sweet :icon_puke_r: ...but that's just the kinda guy I am.) teehee
Puking ~ purging....good realease.
Hello
Not one for the concept of LOVe in that OMG I will DIE without him or her way. I embrace what life brings forth.
That said...what I have done for me mate was stay with him along his path of drug and alochol addictions. IT was three very long and drainning year's but I stayed the course. WOULD I do it again NO . Am I sorry I did NO we have had 30 year's now together and he has stayed clean and sober for 20 of them.
We do many thigns for LOVe.....and some turn out ok. Never had a broken heart as never had another man in me life.
Lynn
Neville
19-01-2012, 10:52 PM
Originally quoted by the Humm;
darkness is the realm of the blind.
Oranges are not the only fruit. people who can see experience darkness.
Originally quoted by the Humm;
Oranges are not the only fruit. people who can see experience darkness.
Agreed. ...
Gem: the distinction between the form we live as and the constancy of awareness is considered real, but I feel it most accurate to say ... this is my expression.
This is how I see it.... True self is the essence, human and other forms are the expression.
Xan
Maiya
19-01-2012, 11:12 PM
What have I done for love?
I let someone go.
He took care of me until I could take care of myself.
I grew up in poverty and violence and he was the one who taught me about love.
I loved him them, I love him now, and I will love him forever.
He was a soldier and in our own way we had both been to hell and back.
It was time to let go.
Sweet sad story, Maiya.
You've also told us what your soldier did for love.
Xan
We are indeed the stories we tell... until we stop telling our own and others arrive to tell them of us.
Make your myths up as you go... so the children's children have bones.
The memories do make us and how could we be other than the product of our past? What other reference is there for a perspective.
You two are just too much!! :love4: :love7:
That said...what I have done for me mate was stay with him along his path of drug and alochol addictions. IT was three very long and drainning year's but I stayed the course. WOULD I do it again NO . Am I sorry I did NO we have had 30 year's now together and he has stayed clean and sober for 20 of them.
We do many thigns for LOVe.....and some turn out ok. Never had a broken heart as never had another man in me life.
Lynn
What have I done for love?
I let someone go.
Interesting contrast.
One kept due to LOVE
One let go due to LOVE
Love has many facets.
silent whisper
20-01-2012, 06:20 AM
Interesting contrast.
One kept due to LOVE
One let go due to LOVE
Love has many facets.
Yep!! Like a "brilliant" cut diamond :smile:
Neville
20-01-2012, 11:10 AM
Any field of endeavour requires something in the way of personal sacrifice. The rewards of such endeavour are in many cases worth the sacrifice. So what have I done for Love? Whatever it took to achieve it. and maintain it.
In my case it is well worth it.
Maiya
20-01-2012, 05:00 PM
Thanks, Xan and Nada.
We're still good friends. We share kids and grandbabies. So all's well that ends well. :smile:
We are indeed the stories we tell...
The memories do make us...
This all depends on what we mean by "we/us".
As for me, the stories and memories are just in the skin of my being... sort of like tattoos.
Xan
Mr Interesting
21-01-2012, 09:17 PM
Oh, lovely setup Xan!
Shall I take the shot?
I think another feint is in order....
silent whisper
21-01-2012, 10:03 PM
We are indeed the stories we tell...
The memories do make us...
This all depends on what we mean by "we/us".
As for me, the stories and memories are just in the skin of my being... sort of like tattoos.
Xan
I have a friend who suffers deep depression and his journey to "remember" fully his life to heal is tarnished with a level of not having anyone who remembers his early life stories fully, as a small child. In many ways the stories for some are an important tool to help them place pieces of a puzzle of their life together in understanding and clarity to heal...Blocks can be powerful to that protective mechanism in place..so today I am simply connecting to the importance for some who may feel they need those stories and memories brought to life once more....for their peace.
Yes, healing the surface self is important for so many reasons.
One of them is so we can loosen our hold on that identity and discover who we are within that was hidden.
Xan
Mr Interesting
22-01-2012, 12:28 AM
The transfiguration of pain
Is it the path that Love follows?
is it the conduit so the inner beating of Love becomes the outer shell of possibility?
Excuse my questions as they are my own.
silent whisper
22-01-2012, 01:28 AM
The transfiguration of pain
Is it the path that Love follows?
is it the conduit so the inner beating of Love becomes the outer shell of possibility?
Excuse my questions as they are my own.
Why excuse you? You ask we listen...we answer if you wish for one?
The transfiguration of pain
Is it the path that Love follows?
is it the conduit so the inner beating of Love becomes the outer shell of possibility?
Excuse my questions as they are my own.
Uh?? :confused2:
Why excuse you? You ask we listen...we answer if you wish for one?
You know what he is saying?? :D
Smiler
22-01-2012, 01:58 AM
Maiya
Quote [What have I done for love?
I let someone go.
He took care of me until I could take care of myself.
I grew up in poverty and violence and he was the one who taught me about love.
I loved him them, I love him now, and I will love him forever.
He was a soldier and in our own way we had both been to hell and back.
It was time to let go.
_______________]
How truly beautiful .
*hug*
:)
TzuJanLi
22-01-2012, 02:56 AM
Greetings..
Yes, healing the surface self is important for so many reasons.
One of them is so we can loosen our hold on that identity and discover who we are within that was hidden.
Xan
The 'healing' you speak of, is to simply let go of it.. it is the 'purveyors of healing processes' that keep folks attached to whatever they are grasping.. i have watched several of my students and friends go through agonizing psycho-therapies.. and, each of them, at some point prior to a 'clean bill of mental health', said in reference to the advice to 'just let it go', it was what actually worked.. i have watched as therapists and self-help gurus take people on the grand tour of their 'issues', working through various 'healing' processes along the way, and.. basically playing the fortune-tellers game, looking for clues and 'tells' as to what the patient wants to hear that will keep them coming back for more..
Now, if by "healing the surface self", you mean to help people see and experience their own self-awareness, as opposed to telling them what they should see is the 'true' this or the 'only' that.. because, if it is the 'true' this or the 'only' that, it will be self-evident, and you might be onto something.. Clarity reveals Spirituality as a very personal, intimate, and directly accessible relationship with Life, and.. too often, gurus and mystics want a 'process', which they are the authorities on, so they can maintain their position in a hierarchical structure built around their imagined self-image.. a game not unlike 'The Emperor's New Clothes', where nearly everyone agrees to play the game, and nearly everyone wants to play the 'game' well, but.. nearly everyone knows it's a game.. that's the 'illusion'.
Spirituality and religion have been around for thousands of years, and the human experience suffers today as much, if not more, than it ever has.. and, as long as we continue to play a game of conceptualized beliefs in opposition to what we can plainly see and experience, we will suffer the conflicts wrought by that illusion.. what i have done, for the Love of Life, is to see and feel with clarity, and opt out of the 'game'..
Be well..
Yo'... you talkin' ta me, bro? Cause from where I sit here in m'se'f, you must be talkin'bout somebody else.
But I thought this talkin' was about the luv... You got any?
X
(I hope I don't insult anyone with my silly play acting.)
Mountain-Goat
22-01-2012, 04:06 AM
I for one am not bothered by the game(as Tzu calls it) you and he continue to play with each other.
Yo'... you talkin' ta me, bro? Cause from where I sit here in m'se'f, you must be talkin'bout somebody else.
But I thought this talkin' was about the luv... You got any?
X
(I hope I don't insult anyone with my silly play acting.)
LOL LOL :D :laughing7:
Neville
22-01-2012, 11:59 AM
The game of verbal to ing and fro ing becomes monotone, leaving a stained trail like a torn filled diaper hanging from a crawling baby as it makes it's way across the face of these once respectable forums. You both were oncewise, what you have degenerated into is a pair of bickering old timers...
It becomes evident at some point that the time we have is all we have and should not be squandered away in mundane bickerings, rather it should be treasured and used to say something and not say nothing with many words.
sound
22-01-2012, 12:45 PM
Well that certainly created a hush in the crowd Neville lol ... I am not sure i am comfortable with telling others how they should use their time here, but i agree everyone is entitled to share how they feel about how others interact ...
BlueSky
22-01-2012, 01:48 PM
Well, I for one, putting aside, but still giving space to Neville's thoughts on how others should spend their time here, am quite aware, as well of what this forum has become and why.
My prediction is shortly it will run it's course as already this is evident. Like anything else it seems.
Thanks Neville, from me to you, for speaking your mind and sharing what is in your heart.
Blessings, James
TzuJanLi
22-01-2012, 02:02 PM
Greetings..
The game of verbal to ing and fro ing becomes monotone, leaving a stained trail like a torn filled diaper hanging from a crawling baby as it makes it's way across the face of these once respectable forums. You both were oncewise, what you have degenerated into is a pair of bickering old timers...
It becomes evident at some point that the time we have is all we have and should not be squandered away in mundane bickerings, rather it should be treasured and used to say something and not say nothing with many words.
I agree, Neville.. there was a time of sharing, and caring.. then, the self-anointed ones began telling others how and why to be Spiritual, and.. any attempt to share a perspective not aligned with the consensus perspective has been drowned out by the choir of consensus.. and lo, the 'diapers bulged abundantly'...
Be well..
Jyotir
22-01-2012, 02:25 PM
Greetings..
I agree, Neville.. there was a time of sharing, and caring.. then, the self-anointed ones began telling others how and why to be Spiritual, and.. any attempt to share a perspective not aligned with the consensus perspective has been drowned out by the choir of consensus.. and lo, the 'diapers bulged abundantly'...
Be well..
Interesting take Tzu.
From my pov, I see much sharing, caring; little or no censorship, and most definitely no alignment; certainly no consensus (except incidentally).
The only choir - that of every member posting on the same boards.
As to "how and why to be spiritual"?
Have you seen the name of the forum?
~ J
BlueSky
22-01-2012, 02:49 PM
Interesting take Tzu.
From my pov, I see much sharing, caring; little or no censorship, and most definitely no alignment; certainly no consensus (except incidentally).
The only choir - that of every member posting on the same boards.
As to "how and why to be spiritual"?
Have you seen the name of the forum?
~ J
Your point of view reflects clear seeing IMO Jyotir.................however there is much of the opposite of what you see as well. I see both so I know.............lol
Personally I struggle with this a little because there is nothing I can do about it externally. There is plenty I can do about it internally though.
But that's my issue I guess, but then again if I really believed that (It's internal) then I wouldn't be struggling with it.:smile:
It's like watching Jim Jones giving his followers poison and having real issues with that and then believing that the issues I have are mine.
They are not and there is nothing I can do to convince Jim that he is delusional.
In the end, the followers and maybe even the forum and maybe even everyone suffers.
Anyways, nice post
TzuJanLi
22-01-2012, 02:51 PM
Interesting take Tzu.
From my pov, I see much sharing, caring; little or no censorship, and most definitely no alignment; certainly no consensus (except incidentally).
The only choir - that of every member posting on the same boards.
As to "how and why to be spiritual"?
Have you seen the name of the forum?
~ J
Hi ~J: Yes, i've seen the name of the forum.. perhaps i could be more clear.. there are those that seek to define what it is to be spiritual rather than examine how to develop spirituality as a process compared to a definition.. as for you perspective of sharing and caring, it remains yours and those that agree with you.. i see both, and don't feel the 'Love' unless i agree with those that tell me what it is..
Be well..
BlueSky
22-01-2012, 03:00 PM
Hi ~J: Yes, i've seen the name of the forum.. perhaps i could be more clear.. there are those that seek to define what it is to be spiritual rather than examine how to develop spirituality as a process compared to a definition.. as for you perspective of sharing and caring, it remains yours and those that agree with you.. i see both, and don't feel the 'Love' unless i agree with those that tell me what it is..
Be well..
"There are those that seek to define what is spiritual"
You intrigue me Tzu in that you cannot see how so very much you reflect the energy of these words..... but in other words.
To be honest, observing you has taught me that there is no hope in humans coming together to make this world a better place.
For that I am thankful.................coming together never was the answer anyways.
Blessings, James
Jyotir
22-01-2012, 03:01 PM
Yes, i've seen the name of the forum.. perhaps i could be more clear.. there are those that seek to define what it is to be spiritual rather than examine how to develop spirituality as a process compared to a definition.. as for you perspective of sharing and caring, it remains yours and those that agree with you.. i see both, and don't feel the 'Love' unless i agree with those that tell me what it is..
Be well..
Hi Tzu,
there are those that seek to define what it is to be spiritual rather than examine how to develop spirituality as a process compared to a definition..
Perhaps you can explain how these are different?
i see both, and don't feel the 'Love' unless i agree with those that tell me what it is..
Another interesting view - one that doesn't see love where there is no apparent agreement with you, your own definition.
And that leads to...more ambiguity...
Could you explain how this need for explanation and consensus is necessary in view of your often repeated essential principle of "finding out for yourself", what (self-evident) spirituality is...?
~ J
TzuJanLi
22-01-2012, 03:08 PM
Greetings..
"There are those that seek to define what is spiritual"
You intrigue me Tzu in that you cannot see how so very much you reflect the energy of these words..... but in other words.
To be honest, observing you has taught me that there is no hope in humans coming together to make this world a better place.
For that I am thankful.................coming together never was the answer anyways.
Blessings, James
Hi James: All i offer is a way of 'seeing' what is, clarity.. i claim nothing about the what 'is', other than to point to those matters that are self-evident..
It seem that what you mean by 'coming together', is to have everyone agree with a certain belief.. i sense that if everyone is seeing clearly, there will be no need for beliefs..
Be well..
TzuJanLi
22-01-2012, 03:17 PM
Hi Tzu,
Perhaps you can explain how these are different?
Another interesting view - one that doesn't see love where there is no apparent agreement with you, your own definition.
And that leads to...more ambiguity...
Could you explain how this need for explanation and consensus is necessary in view of your often repeated essential principle of "finding out for yourself", what spirituality is...?
~ J
Developing a process has no destination.. it is the means for discovering a Cosmos that is evolving, where is the destination? Defining Spirituality as 'this or that' establishes a destination and limits possibilities.. do you see the difference?
Agreement with me? no, that is not an issue.. a forum that evolved from sharing and caring to preaching and teaching, that is closer to the issue..
Could you explain what you mean by : "this need for explanation and consensus"?
Be well..
BlueSky
22-01-2012, 03:28 PM
Greetings..
Hi James: All i offer is a way of 'seeing' what is, clarity.. i claim nothing about the what 'is', other than to point to those matters that are self-evident..
It seem that what you mean by 'coming together', is to have everyone agree with a certain belief.. i sense that if everyone is seeing clearly, there will be no need for beliefs..
Be well..
What can I say that would not fall on deaf ears?
It is a big "no" on both accounts.......
You offer as 'oppose to'...........that is the issue.
And your taking that I mean by coming together that everyone should believe the same thing reflects you inability to see me.
However, as I said before, it doesn't really matter where a discussion on "coming together" would lead because you and others here have already shown me that it is not the answer.
On the opposite extreme........people like Bin Laden have also shown me this.
The inabilty to see what one is doing to the whole because it is masked by the inability to see itself..
Does it matter? Well I guess that's personal.
It certainly matters to the families of the ones killed in 911.... but in regards to the overall scheme of life............I don't have an answer.
It certainly matters to those who don't post here anymore because of your constant opposing.... but in regards to the overall scheme of life......I don't have an answer.
Like I said, it's personal.
Please don't be deluded in thinking that I think we are having a conversation because I know we really are not.................
It's more of a closure thing.
Blessings, James
TzuJanLi
22-01-2012, 03:36 PM
Greetings..
What can I say that would not fall on deaf ears?
It is a big "no" on both accounts.......
You offer as 'oppose to'...........that is the issue.
And your taking that I mean by coming together that everyone should believe the same thing reflects you inability to see me.
However, as I said before, it doesn't really matter where a discussion on "coming together" would lead because you and others here have already shown me that it is not the answer.
On the opposite extreme........people like Bin Laden have also shown me this.
The inabilty to see what one is doing to the whole because it is masked by the inability to see itself..
Does it matter? Well I guess that's personal.
It certainly matters to the families of the ones killed in 911.... but in regards to the overall scheme of life............I don't have an answer.
It certainly matters to those who don't post here anymore because of your constant opposing.... but in regards to the overall scheme of life......I don't have an answer.
Like I said, it's personal.
Please don't be deluded in thinking that I think we are having a conversation because I know we really are not.................
It's more of a closure thing.
Blessings, James
Only 'Wow', James.. just wow.. i see you, now.. and, i truly wish you well..
Be well..
Jyotir
22-01-2012, 03:44 PM
Developing a process has no destination.. it is the means for discovering a Cosmos that is evolving, where is the destination? Defining Spirituality as 'this or that' establishes a destination and limits possibilities.. do you see the difference?
Agreement with me? no, that is not an issue.. a forum that evolved from sharing and caring to preaching and teaching, that is closer to the issue..
Could you explain what you mean by : "this need for explanation and consensus"?
Be well..
I do see the difference and that difference is the point. This process is ongoing in everyone's life. Anyone posting on a spiritual forum is offering one's current realization, current experience, current ability to express - an increment of that process which is not static or final.
I think you are assuming because anyone takes the trouble to offer any incremental realization - it constitutes a declaration of finality. That is a mistake, imo. It is prudent and wise to consider any public offerings provisional for one's personal assessment, no matter how confidently that offering is expressed. This would hold true for any poster and any reader. Why should this be a revelation for a 60 year old man who is a teacher, who has his own students?
I see no difference between sharing, caring, preaching, teaching, reading ignoring, complaining, whatever... The community as a totality simply accepts all individual participation however it is characterized, however individuals perceive it or utilize it. You have those choices of how you want to participate and where.
Could you explain what you mean by : "this need for explanation and consensus"?
You are constantly saying that people should...... find out for themselves about spirituality and not listen to others. Yet if that is such an important principle to you - self evident, self-discovered clarity - why would you need...
to have a discussion about these understandings with me [...] so we can be clear
Are you saying that people should "find out for themselves", so they can then report them to you for review and authentication, or to 'correct'/adjust them by some group reasoning and consensus process? What actually is this insistent demand about, if you claim to be interested in a personal freedom to make one's own discoveries?
And how are anyone else's statements about their own realizations contrary to that very important principle of "find out for yourself"?
The way I see it, there is some confusion either regarding the meaning of that principle, or how it is applied.
~ J
I do see the difference and that difference is the point. This process is ongoing in everyone's life. Anyone posting on a spiritual forum is offering one's current realization, current experience, current ability to express - an increment of that process which is not static or final.
I think you are assuming because anyone takes the trouble to offer any incremental realization - it constitutes a declaration of finality. That is a mistake, imo. It is prudent and wise to consider any public offerings provisional for one's personal assessment, no matter how confidently that offering is expressed. This would hold true for any poster and any reader. Why should this be a revelation for a 60 year old man who is a teacher, who has his own students?
I see no difference between sharing, caring, preaching, teaching, reading ignoring, complaining, whatever... The community as a totality simply accepts all individual participation however it is characterized, however individuals perceive it or utilize it. You have those choices of how you want to participate and where.
You are constantly saying that people should...about spirituality and not listen to others. Yet if that is such an important principle to you - self evident, self-discovered clarity - why would you need...
Are you saying that people should "find out for themselves", so they can then report them to you for review and authentication, or to 'correct'/adjust them by some group reasoning and consensus process? What actually is this insistent demand about, if you claim to be interested in a personal freedom to make one's own discoveries?
And how are anyone else's statements about their own realizations contrary to that very important principle of "find out for yourself"?
The way I see it, there is some confusion either regarding the meaning of that principle, or how it is applied.
~ J
Excellent questions/observations.
BlueSky
22-01-2012, 03:50 PM
Greetings..
Only 'Wow', James.. just wow.. i see you, now.. and, i truly wish you well..
Be well..
No problem Tzu.......see me any way you need to. I'm really not sure what that has to do with anything anyway.
Why try to attack me with these words and the energy behind them?
Could there be a need to see others the way you see me now? I really have to wonder.
When I was a "born again", the energy present to see others as wrong was so obviously an attempt to protect the heart from the perceived fear of seeing otherwise.
BlueSky
22-01-2012, 03:53 PM
Hi Jyotir..............I have to ask and I mean no disrespect to you or Tzu but:
Do you think that what you are saying is being heard?
James
Jyotir
22-01-2012, 03:54 PM
Also Tzu,
I may decline further comment and so give you the last word in this (tangential) matter. I am not interested in participating in what could very well be yet another in a series of off-topic thread derailments in order to satisfy what appears to be a genuine obsession on your part with this particular issue - one that seems to insinuate itself into every thread you participate in regardless of the subject. I sincerely suggest that you begin a thread concerning this all-important theme in the "strong opinions" section, for a fuller, appropriately dedicated, in depth discussion.
~ J
No problem Tzu.......see me any way you need to. I'm really not sure what that has to do with anything anyway.
Why try to attack me with these words and the energy behind them?
Could there be a need to see others the way you see me now? I really have to wonder.
When I was a "born again", the energy present to see others as wrong was so obviously an attempt to protect the heart from the perceived fear of seeing otherwise.
So true WS.
In that context "I see you now" is not a statement of acceptance, but of judgement, imposed definition, and "Just wow" is obvious denigration.
Tzu is a master of oblique negativity - but it is apparent those who can see through it, and those who cannot, which seems to include himself.
Also Tzu,
I may decline further comment and so give you the last word in this (tangential) matter. I am not interested in participating in what could very well be yet another in a series of off-topic thread derailments in order to satisfy what appears to be a genuine obsession on your part with this particular issue - one that seems to insinuate itself into every thread you participate in regardless of the subject. I sincerely suggest that you begin a thread concerning this all important theme in the "strong opinions" section, for a fuller, appropriately dedicated, in depth discussion.
~ J
Excellent suggestion - I too am bowing out.
BlueSky
22-01-2012, 04:02 PM
Excellent suggestion - I too am bowing out.
Me too...........
I'm reminded of the Jim Croce song:
You don't tug on supermans cape;
You don't spit into the wind;
You don't................................:smile:
TzuJanLi
22-01-2012, 07:51 PM
Greetings..
I rest my case.. the prosecution may continue at its leisure..
Be well..
silent whisper
22-01-2012, 08:42 PM
In the space of loving those who are being prosecuted.......the circle continues to turn......all round for all.......that in itself is not static or final...is it?
silent whisper
22-01-2012, 08:43 PM
I ponder is it the circle of life in motion?................but is it also a cycle in a circle...perhaps so?
Silver
22-01-2012, 08:48 PM
I see no prosecution happening here ~ maybe ~ only self-condemnation...on both / all sides.
BlueSky
22-01-2012, 08:50 PM
What does self-condemnation mean as it applies here?
silent whisper
22-01-2012, 08:51 PM
What have you done for love?
Today I woke with new awarness about loving those who love in their way. That way of loving may not always be the way I love and share that love and sometimes that can feel quite difficult to extend myself outward to them. But then in that space, I realized that when I resist to love and giving to them, I resist something within me. I resist that space of going deeper into love itself. The more I give to those who are hard to love, the deeper I go within myself. I deepen god within myself. I pondered this space deeply today upon waking. I was shown by spirit some of my own lessons around this space. And as I stepped out of bed. I realized that it is never too late to begin again and start over in new light.
So what have you done for love today...not for you but for someone else who you perceive as hard to love?
silent whisper
22-01-2012, 08:57 PM
I see no prosecution happening here ~ maybe ~ only self-condemnation...on both / all sides.
We will all see what we see......we shall see what others see too......even in seeing others before themselves...
BlueSky
22-01-2012, 09:04 PM
What have you done for love?
Today I woke with new awarness about loving those who love in their way. That way of loving may not always be the way I love and share that love and sometimes that can feel quite difficult to extend myself outward to them. But then in that space, I realized that when I resist to love and giving to them, I resist something within me. I resist that space of going deeper into love itself. The more I give to those who are hard to love, the deeper I go within myself. I deepen god within myself. I pondered this space deeply today upon waking. I was shown by spirit some of my own lessons around this space. And as I stepped out of bed. I realized that it is never too late to begin again and start over in new light.
So what have you done for love today...not for you but for someone else who you perceive as hard to love?
Yes and for me it comes natural to love "in spite" of how hard one might try and make it but I am intrigued, as I value your opinion, if you are saying that you see everyone trying to love in their own way regardless of what they are doing?
This seems to be saying that................thanks, James
Silver
22-01-2012, 09:05 PM
What does self-condemnation mean as it applies here?
Spoken as an older not necessarily wiser woman ~ It just makes me sad people attacking each other like this and it just keeps going. I don't think reasonable people should talk to each other like that. It's obviously gotten us nowhere for a very long time.
Mr Interesting
22-01-2012, 09:26 PM
What I've been doing for a while now is if someone asks something of me I do it.
So a friend got hold of me the other day and asked if I could help him move stuff. I agreed straight away and got my brothers van, put 20 bucks petrol in it and arrived at the address specified. I had no idea what was going on.
I get to the place and he's there ripping apart a film set and wants me to help him get a load of firewood to his house. On offer, for me, is as much denailed construction timber as I can take.
He got a shed load of firewood and I got about two cubic meters of dry, straight and totally usable 100 x 50 pine.
So over the past, maybe year and a half, I've found I don't even have to ask for what I need as if I do what others ask of me I end up getting what I didn't realise I needed. It's mostly about knowing what the universe intends for me is better than what I intend for me and that the clues about that come from other people wanting my help.
In doing this I've got what I need but I've also learned alot about the transmission of love into and out of peoples lives. Basically we all want love but people who can't receive it yet don't often ask for help or they ask for help in round about ways, often covered in their own needs to control the love but this in turn allows them the lessons they need to be more giving and receiving of love.
So when I said ages ago, in this thread, that I do nothing for love, I suppose what I meant was that I just go with the flow, as it were, and let love set the agenda.
For me it's more about trust and faith in that what ever comes into and flows out of my life is beyond my individual ability to control or determine if the product I'm willing to be a part of is all about love.
So I do nothing for love but love does everything for me and I'm willing to be a servant of that. Love knows my abilities better than I do so whatever appears will be a door towards greater manifestations of love.
silent whisper
22-01-2012, 09:26 PM
Spoken as an older not necessarily wiser woman ~ It just makes me sad people attacking each other like this and it just keeps going. I don't think reasonable people should talk to each other like that. It's obviously gotten us nowhere for a very long time.
It gets us nowhere but everywhere.......your feeling of sadness is the feeling ...that is what is important to you silvergirl......does it get us nowhere........or is this the joy of being open and connecting freely......in all our glorious colours...when and only when we are all allowed to shine like we are now.....then we can never truly find deeper connection with self...first and foremost... others simply follow on from that....
I might add to this that if this thread is closed down I would be quite peeved to say the least...
BlueSky
22-01-2012, 09:26 PM
Spoken as an older not necessarily wiser woman ~ It just makes me sad people attacking each other like this and it just keeps going. I don't think reasonable people should talk to each other like that. It's obviously gotten us nowhere for a very long time.
Ok.................it bothers me too. I just don't see it as people so much as I see it as one individuals energy.
I know you don't agree with that and that's cool..............
Peace and love...James
silent whisper
22-01-2012, 09:28 PM
What I've been doing for a while now is if someone asks something of me I do it.
So a friend got hold of me the other day and asked if I could help him move stuff. I agreed straight away and got my brothers van, put 20 bucks petrol in it and arrived at the address specified. I had no idea what was going on.
I get to the place and he's there ripping apart a film set and wants me to help him get a load of firewood to his house. On offer, for me, is as much denailed construction timber as I can take.
He got a shed load of firewood and I got about two cubic meters of dry, straight and totally usable 100 x 50 pine.
So over the past, maybe year and a half, I've found I don't even have to ask for what I need as if I do what others ask of me I end up getting what I didn't realise I needed. It's mostly about knowing what the universe intends for me is better than what I intend for me and that the clues about that come from other people wanting my help.
In doing this I've got what I need but I've also learned alot about the transmission of love into and out of peoples lives. Basically we all want love but people who can't receive it yet don't often ask for help or they ask for help in round about ways, often covered in their own needs to control the love but this in turn allows them the lessons they need to be more giving and receiving of love.
So when I said ages ago, in this thread, that I do nothing for love, I suppose what I meant was that I just go with the flow, as it were, and let love set the agenda.
For me it's more about trust and faith in that what ever comes into and flows out of my life is beyond my individual ability to control or determine if the product I'm willing to be a part of is all about love.
So I do nothing for love but love does everything for me and I'm willing to be a servant of that. Love knows my abilities better than I do so whatever appears will be a door towards greater manifestations of love.
Very cool...trusting the love where it needs to go in whatever form it takes...wonderful
BlueSky
22-01-2012, 09:29 PM
What I've been doing for a while now is if someone asks something of me I do it.
So a friend got hold of me the other day and asked if I could help him move stuff. I agreed straight away and got my brothers van, put 20 bucks petrol in it and arrived at the address specified. I had no idea what was going on.
I get to the place and he's there ripping apart a film set and wants me to help him get a load of firewood to his house. On offer, for me, is as much denailed construction timber as I can take.
He got a shed load of firewood and I got about two cubic meters of dry, straight and totally usable 100 x 50 pine.
So over the past, maybe year and a half, I've found I don't even have to ask for what I need as if I do what others ask of me I end up getting what I didn't realise I needed. It's mostly about knowing what the universe intends for me is better than what I intend for me and that the clues about that come from other people wanting my help.
In doing this I've got what I need but I've also learned alot about the transmission of love into and out of peoples lives. Basically we all want love but people who can't receive it yet don't often ask for help or they ask for help in round about ways, often covered in their own needs to control the love but this in turn allows them the lessons they need to be more giving and receiving of love.
So when I said ages ago, in this thread, that I do nothing for love, I suppose what I meant was that I just go with the flow, as it were, and let love set the agenda.
For me it's more about trust and faith in that what ever comes into and flows out of my life is beyond my individual ability to control or determine if the product I'm willing to be a part of is all about love.
So I do nothing for love but love does everything for me and I'm willing to be a servant of that. Love knows my abilities better than I do so whatever appears will be a door towards greater manifestations of love.
Interesting approach.........reminds me of the movie "Yes" with Jim Carrie.
Nice post............
Silver
22-01-2012, 09:30 PM
Yeah, I agree w/that, Mr. I. Real nice post.
silent whisper
22-01-2012, 09:34 PM
Yes and for me it comes natural to love "in spite" of how hard one might try and make it but I am intrigued, as I value your opinion, if you are saying that you see everyone trying to love in their own way regardless of what they are doing?
This seems to be saying that................thanks, James
Yes...all the wonderuful array of colours and dances.......all playing out to the tune we all love.....if you dont love your own fully.......how can you love anothers?
And I have danced some (pretty cool) dirty dancing too...so....:wink:
silent whisper
22-01-2012, 09:35 PM
...........
Silver
22-01-2012, 09:38 PM
Ok.................it bothers me too. I just don't see it as people so much as I see it as one individuals energy.
I know you don't agree with that and that's cool..............
Peace and love...James
For me, it's not about agreeing with one person or an idea ~ I am past that anymore.
Just think how one person may feel if it's their energy that is 'the problem' ~ If that person is given the benefit of the doubt...but that's not what seems to be happening here. It's too late to figure out 'who started the tussle.' Rofl.
If one person feels they have something important to say, and that person keeps trying to make themselves heard, only to be rebuffed time and again, I'd say it really is best to let it go.
silent whisper
22-01-2012, 09:41 PM
For me, it's not about agreeing with one person or an idea ~ I am past that anymore.
Just think how one person may feel if it's their energy that is 'the problem' ~ If that person is given the benefit of the doubt...but that's not what seems to be happening here. It's too late to figure out 'who started the tussle.' Rofl.
If one person feels they have something important to say, and that person keeps trying to make themselves heard, only to be rebuffed time and again, I'd say it really is best to let it go.
Ya think I would give up that easy........I love..........not letting go.......now....especially in this light....:0 :tongue:
BlueSky
22-01-2012, 09:41 PM
Yes...all the wonderuful array of colours and dances.......all playing out to the tune we all love.....if you dont love your own fully.......how can you love anothers?
And I have danced some (pretty cool) dirty dancing too...so....:wink:
I love my own fully and I would agree that everyone is reaching out from love even if misguided.
However this allows me to love the rapist, not the act and it's the act I am talking about.
But that's me...........James
silent whisper
22-01-2012, 09:45 PM
I love my own fully and I would agree that everyone is reaching out from love even if misguided.
However this allows me to love the rapist, not the act and it's the act I am talking about.
But that's me...........James
Acceptance of what "is" doesnt mean we have to agree..with any act...and righfully so...
Silver
22-01-2012, 09:48 PM
For me, it's not about agreeing with one person or an idea ~ I am past that anymore.
Just think how one person may feel if it's their energy that is 'the problem' ~ If that person is given the benefit of the doubt...but that's not what seems to be happening here. It's too late to figure out 'who started the tussle.' Rofl.
If one person feels they have something important to say, and that person keeps trying to make themselves heard, only to be rebuffed time and again, I'd say it really is best to let it go.
Ya think I would give up that easy........I love..........not letting go.......now....especially in this light....:0 :tongue:
Just to be 'clear' ~ not referring to you, m'dear silent whisper (loove that name!)
:D
Today I woke with new awarness about loving those who love in their way. That way of loving may not always be the way I love and share that love and sometimes that can feel quite difficult to extend myself outward to them.
But then in that space, I realized that when I resist to love and giving to them, I resist something within me. I resist that space of going deeper into love itself. The more I give to those who are hard to love, the deeper I go within myself. I deepen god within myself.
I pondered this space deeply today upon waking. I was shown by spirit some of my own lessons around this space. And as I stepped out of bed. I realized that it is never too late to begin again and start over in new light.
Beautiful realization, silent whisper.
Xan
BlueSky
22-01-2012, 09:51 PM
For me, it's not about agreeing with one person or an idea ~ I am past that anymore.
Just think how one person may feel if it's their energy that is 'the problem' ~ If that person is given the benefit of the doubt...but that's not what seems to be happening here. It's too late to figure out 'who started the tussle.' Rofl.
If one person feels they have something important to say, and that person keeps trying to make themselves heard, only to be rebuffed time and again, I'd say it really is best to let it go.
It's not about agreeing with the person or their ideas either for me.
And I agree...........in this case...letting it go is best.......................but as I said earlier it makes me realize that there will never be peace on earth as long as we have a say about it.
This is what I see as a lesson from observing the relationships on this forum.
In some ways this makes me sad and in other ways it really opens my eyes.
But again, thats me...........thanks for sharing...:hug3:
Blessings, James
Mr. I: So I do nothing for love but love does everything for me and I'm willing to be a servant of that. Love knows my abilities better than I do so whatever appears will be a door towards greater manifestations of love.
Well said, Sean.
Xan
silent whisper
22-01-2012, 10:10 PM
[quote=silent whisper]
Just to be 'clear' ~ not referring to you, m'dear silent whisper (loove that name!)
:D
Even if it was......I loved it...enough to respond...:hug3: I am just a silent whisper....blowing softly in the wind......sometimes loudly too...:smile:
Silver
22-01-2012, 10:17 PM
[quote=Silvergirl]
Even if it was......I loved it...enough to respond...:hug3: I am just a silent whisper....blowing softly in the wind......sometimes loudly too...:smile:
Haha, you're just tooo cool~*
:glasses2:
3dnow
23-01-2012, 11:47 AM
I understood what it is!!!
Love never speaks (no judgment)
But when it has to speak it never hides the truth (no coyness)
3dnow
23-01-2012, 02:17 PM
I understood what it is!!!
Love never speaks (no judgment)
But when it has to speak it never hides the truth (no coyness)
Love is information that sets you free. I found nothing else.
EDIT: There is also friendship. But this means independence.
Love itself is beyond and free of the mind's defenses.
Yes... giving attention into love for-no-reason does set us free.
Xan
Silver
23-01-2012, 11:15 PM
Love is information that sets you free. I found nothing else.
EDIT: There is also friendship. But this means independence.
That sounds very good to me.:smile:
Sarian
24-01-2012, 12:00 AM
The game of verbal to ing and fro ing becomes monotone, leaving a stained trail like a torn filled diaper hanging from a crawling baby as it makes it's way across the face of these once respectable forums. You both were oncewise, what you have degenerated into is a pair of bickering old timers...
It becomes evident at some point that the time we have is all we have and should not be squandered away in mundane bickerings, rather it should be treasured and used to say something and not say nothing with many words.
torned filled diaper or not, my gosh, Neville, you are a breath of fresh air and truth. anyway, it gave me a chuckle.
I hear this song every time I read the title of this thread...not quite the same, but it puts an earworm in...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=clFGTS3jpsA What you won't do for love... bobby caldwell
Mountain-Goat
24-01-2012, 02:08 AM
Perhaps if people were not attached to their thoughts that what they share is the only truth,
there would be less passionate defense of them and less attacking of other people and their shared perceptions.
It's not an easy thing to idly watch others walk down the wrong path.
Some offer to show them the correct way, some ridicule others for being on the wrong path, some get upset when the other doesn't heed them.
There's many reasons for conflict.
Some are productive reasons and some unproductive.
But if you acknowledge you don't know if your path is correct, can there be conflict with another's different path.
3dnow
24-01-2012, 09:24 AM
Love itself is beyond and free of the mind's defenses.
Yes... giving attention into love for-no-reason does set us free.
Xan
Love for no reason to me is joy.. There is also love that does "something"..
That something is "giving information that sets free."
It is not the mimic :redface: that makes one sleep. Aged people do it a lot unfortunately. (can feel it telepathically it clearly makes sleep)
3d
TzuJanLi
24-01-2012, 10:44 AM
Greetings..
Perhaps if people were not attached to their thoughts that what they share is the only truth,
there would be less passionate defense of them and less attacking of other people and their shared perceptions.
It's not an easy thing to idly watch others walk down the wrong path.
Some offer to show them the correct way, some ridicule others for being on the wrong path, some get upset when the other doesn't heed them.
There's many reasons for conflict.
Some are productive reasons and some unproductive.
But if you acknowledge you don't know if your path is correct, can there be conflict with another's different path.
I do not know if my path is correct, as the future is written with each step i take.. but, there is no resistance, each step reveals a deeper and more vast experience, a simple elegance of majestic proportions.. i don't know if my path is correct, it is behind me now, like the wake of a ship.. my adventure is not about my path, i left the path ages ago, it is about finding my own way, through a "pathless land"..
Be well..
Swami Chihuahuananda
24-01-2012, 11:26 AM
Greetings..
I do not know if my path is correct, as the future is written with each step i take.. but, there is no resistance, each step reveals a deeper and more vast experience, a simple elegance of majestic proportions.. i don't know if my path is correct, it is behind me now, like the wake of a ship.. my adventure is not about my path, i left the path ages ago, it is about finding my own way, through a "pathless land"..
Be well..
I totally agree. At the same time , I know my path is 'correct' because I'm on it . I create it as I go . Out here on the perimeter we are the trail makers , the path breakers , the leading edge . Beyond the realm of correctness or incorrectness , neither this way nor that way , the movement
is only forward ,within , to forever .
(or something like that )DS:cool:
SoulSparkles
24-01-2012, 12:02 PM
I conquered my fears and phobias for love, I pushed myself beyond my comfort zone for love, I took time to heal myself for love.... Did that Love work out??? NO, but Im a better person because I knew it!
Swami Chihuahuananda
24-01-2012, 12:21 PM
I got little doggies for love and it's one of the best things I ever did.
I luuuuuv them little fellers somethin powerful , mmmm hmmm
http://i129.photobucket.com/albums/p219/sheltech/The%20Animals/08sundogs001.jpg
Aaaaaccckkkkk!!!!
SO CUTE!!!!
Silver
24-01-2012, 05:13 PM
Aaaaaccckkkkk!!!!
SO CUTE!!!!
I concur.:D
sound
24-01-2012, 06:51 PM
I do not know if my path is correct, as the future is written with each step i take.. but, there is no resistance, each step reveals a deeper and more vast experience, a simple elegance of majestic proportions.. i don't know if my path is correct, it is behind me now, like the wake of a ship.. my adventure is not about my path, i left the path ages ago, it is about finding my own way, through a "pathless land"..
Very nice Tzu!
TzuJanLi
24-01-2012, 09:24 PM
Greetings..
Very nice Tzu!
Thank you, Kate.. your contributions to this forum are impressive, and so i am humbled by your kind words..
Be well,..
TzuJanLi
24-01-2012, 09:44 PM
I totally agree. At the same time , I know my path is 'correct' because I'm on it . I create it as I go . Out here on the perimeter we are the trail makers , the path breakers , the leading edge . Beyond the realm of correctness or incorrectness , neither this way nor that way , the movement
is only forward ,within , to forever .
(or something like that )DS:cool:
"To Infinity, and beyond", (Buzz Lightyear).. hi Dar, i don't know if my path is 'correct', it's not a criteria that interests me.. i am interested in the consequences of my relationships with Life, whether those consequences inspire harmony, and do they ease the struggles of others.. i intend no harm, except where unavoidable in defense of the defenseless, even then to establish balance, never to dominate or punish.. i embrace Life, the 'Journey with no Destination', this physical experience is scenery along the 'way', adding to the evolution of the Journey.. adding to the joy of the adventure..
Be well..
Swami Chihuahuananda
24-01-2012, 10:09 PM
"To Infinity, and beyond", (Buzz Lightyear).. hi Dar, i don't know if my path is 'correct', it's not a criteria that interests me.. i am interested in the consequences of my relationships with Life, whether those consequences inspire harmony, and do they ease the struggles of others.. i intend no harm, except where unavoidable in defense of the defenseless, even then to establish balance, never to dominate or punish.. i embrace Life, the 'Journey with no Destination', this physical experience is scenery along the 'way', adding to the evolution of the Journey.. adding to the joy of the adventure..
Be well..
No, it's not about 'correct' , it's about what works for each of us :D
Mountain-Goat
25-01-2012, 06:26 AM
"To Infinity, and beyond", (Buzz Lightyear).. hi Dar, i don't know if my path is 'correct', it's not a criteria that interests me.. i am interested in the consequences of my relationships with Life, whether those consequences inspire harmony, and do they ease the struggles of others.. i intend no harm, except where unavoidable in defense of the defenseless, even then to establish balance, never to dominate or punish.. i embrace Life, the 'Journey with no Destination', this physical experience is scenery along the 'way', adding to the evolution of the Journey.. adding to the joy of the adventure..
Be well.. What are you defending against?
I ask because...
I do not know if my path is correct, as the future is written with each step i take.. but, there is no resistance, each step reveals a deeper and more vast experience, a simple elegance of majestic proportions.. i don't know if my path is correct, it is behind me now, like the wake of a ship.. my adventure is not about my path, i left the path ages ago, it is about finding my own way, through a "pathless land"..
arive nan
25-01-2012, 11:54 AM
If I may interrupt, I would like to talk about what I have done for love. It is on my mind so much right now I feel a need to communicate about it.
I have longed for people I have never met - people who I couldn’t be sure really exist. I wore a braid in my hair for years because of a memory from a time before I was born that this was to be a sign by which we would recognize each other. I have isolated myself as much as I could and endured insults and tremendous stress, anxiety, and depression hoping that in time he would eventually realize that I am faithful. I did this until he dumped me. I was young and uneducated about these things then. But I learned that loving someone does not mean that being with that person is necessarily the best thing to do. It was no good for either of us. I cut off all contact and now I again don’t have a clue where this person I am in love with is or how to reach him if I decided to. I don’t try to anyway, although my feelings of love for him have not gone away.
I have fallen in love too many times, without knowing why, and it never stops for me. The feelings for all of them are all still there, still strong – overwhelmingly at times. I’ll tell you about another one. He was someone who ages ago I would see almost every week day and who was in my social group, but I didn’t really talk with him much at all. I just paid very close attention to him while trying not to get caught at it and wrote in my journal every little detail that for some reason seemed worth noting. I wanted more than anything for him to be happy. I felt pained when he appeared depressed or stressed. I felt joyful when it seemed he was well. I couldn’t overcome my shyness enough to do hardly anything. I tried to. I eventually was able to catch his eye as we passed in the hallway and if he noticed we would smile and wave to each other. I lived for those smiles and waves.
I didn’t know what to do after school was over and I had no contact information. For years, every few months or so, I did google searches lol. But he has a very common name. Mostly, I just stayed alive even when I didn’t want to. I get depressions. During the worst parts of them I would think of him and the people I’m in love with and keep in mind that if I chose to die they might feel sad, upset, or even hurt. I would endure pain to spare them from it. So I stayed alive, because most of the time that was the only thing I could do for my loves.
After some advancements in social media, and years of working on my social anxiety problem, I finally had a way to get back in touch. And I did so, in spite of how strange it may seem to suddenly contact after all that time even though we never really talked and he might not remember me at all. He did remember though lol. Still, I very rarely wrote, out of not wanting to be weirdly annoying. At one point I was folding cranes with a wish for his happiness, partly just because it felt like all I could do. I had started folding a lot of cranes for no particular decided upon wish before. I had 700 of those. Interestingly, about 300 cranes into my new project I saw that he had posted a blog entry that he had found happiness. This is a true story. I was amazed. I felt like the most important wish for me in the world had been granted.
Time went on. I would keep looking him up now and then to just make sure it was still true. I kept staying alive. I kept in mind that the thing that matters more to me than anything else is still true... and even if the rest isn’t perfect, and often too painful, I can endure it. It is not as important. Of course, most of the time I didn’t need to think that way. Most of the time I am alive because my life is fine enough and I could enjoy living it. I don’t know if I’m really doing anything for love during those times when I was not in too much pain and wanted to live anyway. But the feeling of love is still there, even when there is nothing to do about it.
There are many more things I have done that I won’t go into. This will be too long as it is. But today... today I had to remind myself of why I stay alive again and make it easier to do that somehow. Along with logging on to my other messengers and social networks, and chatting with people who haven’t heard from me in many months... I logged in to this account that I made just because long ago he completely out of nowhere sent me his screen name for that messenger and I didn’t have an account with them yet. He’s my only contact on there and we had never both been online at the same time. I thought of sending a message but couldn’t think of what to say. So I just looked at the one very short conversation we had there months consisting of a couple of hello how are yous and kept the window open in a tab to look at it when I needed to.
Hours later, I saw movement in that tab in the corner of my eye. For the fist time we were both online at the same time. It was our first conversation ever really... over 12 years after we first met lol... We talked about how we are and people we both knew and about how we didn’t talk to each other much lol. The only thing confessed is that his happiness is important to me. He still has it, generally. I could stop worrying quite so much about my future as well. It’s hard not to believe that there is some mysterious force in the universe sending me a sign or message when things like this happen. If on a day like this he of all people shows up and tells me that things will work out somehow..., I’ll believe it.
I think I seem a bit insane. These are things I would keep from most people in my life. But I feel a need to write them. I feel better after writing them. It feels like something that I need to express in some way. And if it stays hidden on a word file like a dark secret, that isn’t enough. That’s where SF should come in, as a place where people can share these kinds of things with each other. It can be important to have a place where people can do that. What people do for love is something worth learning about, worth talking about... for those who want to learn and talk about it. I can see that there are plenty who do want to. I want them to have a place for that. This is meant to be the place for that...
silent whisper
25-01-2012, 12:04 PM
....arive nan...I am glad you shared. I enjoyed reading your story.
TzuJanLi
25-01-2012, 02:09 PM
Greetings..
What are you defending against?
I ask because...
Hi AC: Why do you ask? Are you familiar with the phrase, "path of least resistance"?.. so, what is it about you that feels compelled to act as mediator, even when there's nothing to mediate? This has been a recurring theme in our discussions.
Be well..
merrie
25-01-2012, 02:24 PM
Wow Nada,
I have to agree with you about the Saints. The ulitmate compassion. I think an Empath is a good example of daily living and compassion for others.:smile:
clovelly
25-01-2012, 02:42 PM
For love, I have shared my life with my boyfriend for the last 11 years xx
Mountain-Goat
25-01-2012, 05:58 PM
Hi AC: Why do you ask? Interested.
I do not know if my path is correct, as the future is written with each step i take.. but, there is no resistance, each step reveals a deeper and more vast experience, a simple elegance of majestic proportions.. i don't know if my path is correct, it is behind me now, like the wake of a ship.. my adventure is not about my path, i left the path ages ago, it is about finding my own way, through a "pathless land".. Are you familiar with the phrase, "path of least resistance"?.. Is there resistance or not?
Are you on a path or not?
so, what is it about you that feels compelled to act as mediator, even when there's nothing to mediate? This has been a recurring theme in our discussions.
Be well.. Who do you think I am mediating between?
What do you see that compels you to defend the defenseless?
TzuJanLi
25-01-2012, 06:10 PM
Greetings..
Interested.
In what, exactly?
Is there resistance or not?It depends on the experiencer.. for me, very little..
Are you on a path or not?I am traveling to where i have always been, from ignorance to enlightenment.. the vehicle is awareness,and.. there is no path..
Who do you think I am mediating between?
You, and people you choose to engage in that manner.. why do you choose this manner of engaging others?
What do you see that compels you to defend the defenseless?
Imbalance, injustice, suffering..
Be well..
BlueSky
25-01-2012, 06:11 PM
If I may interrupt, I would like to talk about what I have done for love. It is on my mind so much right now I feel a need to communicate about it.
I have longed for people I have never met - people who I couldn’t be sure really exist. I wore a braid in my hair for years because of a memory from a time before I was born that this was to be a sign by which we would recognize each other. I have isolated myself as much as I could and endured insults and tremendous stress, anxiety, and depression hoping that in time he would eventually realize that I am faithful. I did this until he dumped me. I was young and uneducated about these things then. But I learned that loving someone does not mean that being with that person is necessarily the best thing to do. It was no good for either of us. I cut off all contact and now I again don’t have a clue where this person I am in love with is or how to reach him if I decided to. I don’t try to anyway, although my feelings of love for him have not gone away.
I have fallen in love too many times, without knowing why, and it never stops for me. The feelings for all of them are all still there, still strong – overwhelmingly at times. I’ll tell you about another one. He was someone who ages ago I would see almost every week day and who was in my social group, but I didn’t really talk with him much at all. I just paid very close attention to him while trying not to get caught at it and wrote in my journal every little detail that for some reason seemed worth noting. I wanted more than anything for him to be happy. I felt pained when he appeared depressed or stressed. I felt joyful when it seemed he was well. I couldn’t overcome my shyness enough to do hardly anything. I tried to. I eventually was able to catch his eye as we passed in the hallway and if he noticed we would smile and wave to each other. I lived for those smiles and waves.
I didn’t know what to do after school was over and I had no contact information. For years, every few months or so, I did google searches lol. But he has a very common name. Mostly, I just stayed alive even when I didn’t want to. I get depressions. During the worst parts of them I would think of him and the people I’m in love with and keep in mind that if I chose to die they might feel sad, upset, or even hurt. I would endure pain to spare them from it. So I stayed alive, because most of the time that was the only thing I could do for my loves.
After some advancements in social media, and years of working on my social anxiety problem, I finally had a way to get back in touch. And I did so, in spite of how strange it may seem to suddenly contact after all that time even though we never really talked and he might not remember me at all. He did remember though lol. Still, I very rarely wrote, out of not wanting to be weirdly annoying. At one point I was folding cranes with a wish for his happiness, partly just because it felt like all I could do. I had started folding a lot of cranes for no particular decided upon wish before. I had 700 of those. Interestingly, about 300 cranes into my new project I saw that he had posted a blog entry that he had found happiness. This is a true story. I was amazed. I felt like the most important wish for me in the world had been granted.
Time went on. I would keep looking him up now and then to just make sure it was still true. I kept staying alive. I kept in mind that the thing that matters more to me than anything else is still true... and even if the rest isn’t perfect, and often too painful, I can endure it. It is not as important. Of course, most of the time I didn’t need to think that way. Most of the time I am alive because my life is fine enough and I could enjoy living it. I don’t know if I’m really doing anything for love during those times when I was not in too much pain and wanted to live anyway. But the feeling of love is still there, even when there is nothing to do about it.
There are many more things I have done that I won’t go into. This will be too long as it is. But today... today I had to remind myself of why I stay alive again and make it easier to do that somehow. Along with logging on to my other messengers and social networks, and chatting with people who haven’t heard from me in many months... I logged in to this account that I made just because long ago he completely out of nowhere sent me his screen name for that messenger and I didn’t have an account with them yet. He’s my only contact on there and we had never both been online at the same time. I thought of sending a message but couldn’t think of what to say. So I just looked at the one very short conversation we had there months consisting of a couple of hello how are yous and kept the window open in a tab to look at it when I needed to.
Hours later, I saw movement in that tab in the corner of my eye. For the fist time we were both online at the same time. It was our first conversation ever really... over 12 years after we first met lol... We talked about how we are and people we both knew and about how we didn’t talk to each other much lol. The only thing confessed is that his happiness is important to me. He still has it, generally. I could stop worrying quite so much about my future as well. It’s hard not to believe that there is some mysterious force in the universe sending me a sign or message when things like this happen. If on a day like this he of all people shows up and tells me that things will work out somehow..., I’ll believe it.
I think I seem a bit insane. These are things I would keep from most people in my life. But I feel a need to write them. I feel better after writing them. It feels like something that I need to express in some way. And if it stays hidden on a word file like a dark secret, that isn’t enough. That’s where SF should come in, as a place where people can share these kinds of things with each other. It can be important to have a place where people can do that. What people do for love is something worth learning about, worth talking about... for those who want to learn and talk about it. I can see that there are plenty who do want to. I want them to have a place for that. This is meant to be the place for that...
Hi Arive nan......Like a good book or a beautiful song, I found that I really lost myself in your words. Thank you for expressing yourself and sharing. It was beautiful and heart felt. I for one can feel the love you hold in your words. I imagine to those who know you in person that it is felt 10 times that.
I too hope that this place can be the place you describe. A place people feel free to express and share.
Blessings, James :hug3:
Mountain-Goat
25-01-2012, 06:45 PM
In what, exactly? In you, in me.
It depends on the experiencer.. for me, very little..
I am traveling to where i have always been, from ignorance to enlightenment.. the vehicle is awareness,and.. there is no path.. Thanks for clearing up your previous statement there was no resistance within your journey.
There is no path, yet you call it a path of least resistance?
You, and people you choose to engage in that manner.. why do you choose this manner of engaging others? Mediate:
1: Act between parties with a view to reconciling differences.
2: Occupy an intermediate or middle position or form a connecting link or stage between two others.
I currently regard it as a good way to be.
Imbalance, injustice, suffering.. These are the resistances on your path of least resistance?
TzuJanLi
25-01-2012, 08:59 PM
Greetings..
In you, in me.
Thanks for clearing up your previous statement there was no resistance within your journey.
There is no path, yet you call it a path of least resistance?
The 'path', when referred to as, "i don't know if my path is correct", refers to where i have been, like the wake of a ship.. there is no 'path' ahead of me, no destination..
"Are you familiar with the phrase, "path of least resistance"?.." This is a question, intended to help you understand the reference to 'resistance', and.. it is an oft cited quote, not what "i call it", but a reference of convenience.
Mediate:
1: Act between parties with a view to reconciling differences.
2: Occupy an intermediate or middle position or form a connecting link or stage between two others.
I currently regard it as a good way to be.
I have no real interest in values of 'good/bad', i am concerned with the consequences of my relationships with Life.. with that perspective, i am curious as to your intentions when interjecting your perception of "a good way to be", when that 'good way' is uninvited, and the resulting consequences would likely be categorized, in your good/bad relationship, as a 'bad way to be'..
These are the reistances on your path of least resistance?
No, they are conditions that can be mitigated by 'doing something for Love'..
Be well..
Mountain-Goat
25-01-2012, 11:10 PM
i am curious as to your intentions when interjecting your perception of "a good way to be", when that 'good way' is uninvited, and the resulting consequences would likely be categorized, in your good/bad relationship, as a 'bad way to be'..
Ohh. OK. I shall leave you be then. My bad, misread the interaction as an invite.
silent whisper
25-01-2012, 11:23 PM
Ohh. OK. I shall leave you be then. My bad, misread the interaction as an invite.
yes the invitation to see through your eyes......but he saw through his own in that invitation...of seeing you...I can see you both......seeing......each other through your own eyes....Is their a consequence of that seeing......well only if you try to make the other see.......what you see....they might get huffed...but just by seeing and allowing......the huff and puff cant blow your house in....:D I think I just turned into the wolf...I feel some wolf wisdom ready to erupt....:tongue:
TzuJanLi
26-01-2012, 02:05 AM
Greetings..
Ohh. OK. I shall leave you be then. My bad, misread the interaction as an invite.
LOL.. it is a misinterpretation of my position that you suffer.. the interaction is indeed an invitation for discussion, but not as mediator or intermediary.. i value much of your contributions, and if i wanted a mediator you would be on the short-list.. i would much more welcome simple conversation, without your penchant for pseudo-psychoanalysis, or your barrister-style of cross examination questioning.. the quote you referenced, which it seems you interpreted as pertaining to your general conversation, pertains only the inquiry regarding your perception of being a mediator as a "good way to be".. please re-read the following passage in context:
I have no real interest in values of 'good/bad', i am concerned with the consequences of my relationships with Life.. with that perspective, i am curious as to your intentions when interjecting your perception of "a good way to be", when that 'good way' is uninvited, and the resulting consequences would likely be categorized, in your good/bad relationship, as a 'bad way to be'..
I hope it is apparent that the curiosity i am raising pertains to the the adaptation of a mediator style of communication, when there is no apparent necessity for mediation.. it is not a rejection of interaction or discussion.. in any case, please accept my apologies if my inquiry was poorly worded..
Be well..
silent whisper
26-01-2012, 05:17 AM
Greetings..
LOL.. it is a misinterpretation of my position that you suffer.. the interaction is indeed an invitation for discussion, but not as mediator or intermediary.. i value much of your contributions, and if i wanted a mediator you would be on the short-list.. i would much more welcome simple conversation, without your penchant for pseudo-psychoanalysis, or your barrister-style of cross examination questioning.. the quote you referenced, which it seems you interpreted as pertaining to your general conversation, pertains only the inquiry regarding your perception of being a mediator as a "good way to be".. please re-read the following passage in context:
I hope it is apparent that the curiosity i am raising pertains to the the adaptation of a mediator style of communication, when there is no apparent necessity for mediation.. it is not a rejection of interaction or discussion.. in any case, please accept my apologies if my inquiry was poorly worded..
Be well..
I am quietly feeling a sense of togetherness...coming through your words Tzu...thats always nice to feel...
Mountain-Goat
26-01-2012, 06:22 PM
Greetings..
LOL.. it is a misinterpretation of my position that you suffer.. the interaction is indeed an invitation for discussion, but not as mediator or intermediary.. i value much of your contributions, and if i wanted a mediator you would be on the short-list.. i would much more welcome simple conversation, without your penchant for pseudo-psychoanalysis, or your barrister-style of cross examination questioning.. the quote you referenced, which it seems you interpreted as pertaining to your general conversation, pertains only the inquiry regarding your perception of being a mediator as a "good way to be"..
I hope it is apparent that the curiosity i am raising pertains to the the adaptation of a mediator style of communication, when there is no apparent necessity for mediation.. it is not a rejection of interaction or discussion.. in any case, please accept my apologies if my inquiry was poorly worded..
Be well..
What is apparent to me, how i percieve the interaction, is you don't like the way I communicate and you want to me to change, or prefer\request I communicate differently.
You are offended by or resist my enquiries and judge them as bad and even define my attitude or motives for doing so.
And you are free to do so, personality clashes are common and I don't have any problems with them.
I regard my enquiring style as good, in that if I don't understand, if something doesn't make sense/add up for me, I will enquire.
I gain understanding of both the person and what they share by enquiring.
I choose to be this way instead of coming to uninformed conclusions.
I get it, you don't like your theories to be analysed, and I choose to leave you be.
Because if you're going to say something and I see what looks like an error or there's something I don't understand,
or I require clarification of word usage, the potential for you to be upset by these enquiries is high,
so I choose to not interact thus not be part of the cause of you getting upset.
Xan is similar, she doesn't like my enquiring ways, so I choose to leave her be too.
If I am going to recieve a negative response from people when I ask simple questions, it's better to just let them be.
I am not suffering.
TzuJanLi
27-01-2012, 12:02 AM
Greetings..
What is apparent to me, how i percieve the interaction, is you don't like the way I communicate and you want to me to change, or prefer\request I communicate differently.
You are offended by or resist my enquiries and judge them as bad and even define my attitude or motives for doing so.
And you are free to do so, personality clashes are common and I don't have any problems with them.
I regard my enquiring style as good, in that if I don't understand, if something doesn't make sense/add up for me, I will enquire.
I gain understanding of both the person and what they share by enquiring.
I choose to be this way instead of coming to uninformed conclusions.
I get it, you don't like your theories to be analysed, and I choose to leave you be.
Because if you're going to say something and I see what looks like an error or there's something I don't understand,
or I require clarification of word usage, the potential for you to be upset by these enquiries is high,
so I choose to not interact thus not be part of the cause of you getting upset.
Xan is similar, she doesn't like my enquiring ways, so I choose to leave her be too.
If I am going to recieve a negative response from people when I ask simple questions, it's better to just let them be.
I am not suffering.
We each see what we choose to see.. i'm not upset, and you're not suffering.. though my use of the term 'suffering' was not as an indication of your 'pain', rather that you had to 'endure' a period of misinterpretation, which i had hoped i could clarify and we could move past, it's your call, though..
Be well..
silent whisper
27-01-2012, 12:40 AM
What is apparent to me, how i percieve the interaction, is you don't like the way I communicate and you want to me to change, or prefer\request I communicate differently.
You are offended by or resist my enquiries and judge them as bad and even define my attitude or motives for doing so.
And you are free to do so, personality clashes are common and I don't have any problems with them.
I regard my enquiring style as good, in that if I don't understand, if something doesn't make sense/add up for me, I will enquire.
I gain understanding of both the person and what they share by enquiring.
I choose to be this way instead of coming to uninformed conclusions.
I get it, you don't like your theories to be analysed, and I choose to leave you be.
Because if you're going to say something and I see what looks like an error or there's something I don't understand,
or I require clarification of word usage, the potential for you to be upset by these enquiries is high,
so I choose to not interact thus not be part of the cause of you getting upset.
Xan is similar, she doesn't like my enquiring ways, so I choose to leave her be too.
If I am going to recieve a negative response from people when I ask simple questions, it's better to just let them be.
I am not suffering.
I am an enquiring mind AC. Receiving the response in the light you see it come to you, offers the enquiring mind some deeper spaces of self reflection. As you are showing here.
Mountain-Goat
27-01-2012, 06:58 PM
Greetings..
We each see what we choose to see.. i'm not upset, and you're not suffering.. though my use of the term 'suffering' was not as an indication of your 'pain', rather that you had to 'endure' a period of misinterpretation, which i had hoped i could clarify and we could move past, it's your call, though..
Be well.. Tzu, the things i endure is when you and others do all manner of things to avoid answering questions.
Which of course, everyone is entitled to do and I don't condemn you/them for doing so.
It just takes me a little while to let go of, "Huh, why don't they just answer this simple question?",
to let go of my desire to enquire more to not only seek an answer to the original question but also to understand why they don't answer.
It takes me a little more interacting to learn that the more i ask the more defensive a person(or whatever their reasons), thus reducing the open sharing of lives.
As for you wishing to clarify, I enquired to recieve some clarification of things you have said,
you respond with an analysis of my motives and attitude for why i am enquiring and did not clarify the things i enquired about, and tell me you do not like my enquiries.
I asked a simple question of, are you on a path or not because I see by your word usage you are saying you are on a path and you are not,
an I get a response of i'm psychoanalysiing your being, and you don't like it, please change your yourself.
Yes, you want to move past, i get that.
But if you are going to say things that appear to me as contradictory, or i see there's two or more ways to interpret it,
or things don't add up for me, and I enquire for clarification in order to understand what you are saying,
and you don't want to clarify, I choose to go no further.
I choose not to go past things, I prefer to understand before moving on.
If misunderstanding is already occuring and they aren't rectified via one form of communication - enquiry and answer, more misunderstanding will occur.
I envision ahead and see the chasm between us widening if I continue to enquire, so i judge it's best to stop.
I am not equipped to listen to someone, not understand what they mean, then continue listening to them without seeking understanding.
Mountain-Goat
01-02-2012, 09:16 PM
Here I am again,revisiting and undating\clarifying.
"To Infinity, and beyond", (Buzz Lightyear).. hi Dar, i don't know if my path is 'correct', it's not a criteria that interests me.. i am interested in the consequences of my relationships with Life, whether those consequences inspire harmony, and do they ease the struggles of others.. i intend no harm, except where unavoidable in defense of the defenseless, What are you defending against?
I ask because...
I do not know if my path is correct, as the future is written with each step i take.. but, there is no resistance, each step reveals a deeper and more vast experience, a simple elegance of majestic proportions.. i don't know if my path is correct, it is behind me now, like the wake of a ship.. my adventure is not about my path, i left the path ages ago, it is about finding my own way, through a "pathless land".. I ask because...
Defend means fight against or resist strongly.
I see a contradiction regarding your claim there is no resistance, if defending is resistance and so I enquired about it.
Here's the answer I recieved...
Hi AC: Why do you ask? Are you familiar with the phrase, "path of least resistance"?.. so, what is it about you that feels compelled to act as mediator, even when there's nothing to mediate? This has been a recurring theme in our discussions. No answer at all actually. Just about completely avoided answering the question and diverted the focus back towards me by asking me three questions.
I say just about avoided because I take this as an inferred answer "Are you familiar with the phrase, "path of least resistance"?"
To which I then asked...
Is there resistance or not? To which you responded with...
It depends on the experiencer.. for me, very little.. Which looks to me as an apt description of a path of least resistance, to which I then said...
Thanks for clearing up your previous statement there was no resistance within your journey. Originally you said, "no resistance on your path", but later clarified by saying "very little". A path of least resistance.
I then ask this, because I am still concluding you used "path of least resistence" to describe your path that you are on...
There is no path, yet you call it a path of least resistance? To which you respond with...
The 'path', when referred to as, "i don't know if my path is correct", refers to where i have been, like the wake of a ship.. there is no 'path' ahead of me, no destination..
"Are you familiar with the phrase, "path of least resistance"?.." This is a question, intended to help you understand the reference to 'resistance', and.. it is an oft cited quote, not what "i call it", but a reference of convenience. 1: If you were referring to the path you were on, to avoid potential confusion, it would have been helpful to use "was" instead of "is" as you repeatedly did...
I do not know if my path is correct, as the future is written with each step i take.. but, there is no resistance, each step reveals a deeper and more vast experience, a simple elegance of majestic proportions.. i don't know if my path is correct, it is behind me now, like the wake of a ship.. my adventure is not about my path, i left the path ages ago, it is about finding my own way, through a "pathless land".. ...'is' denotes current tense, 'was' denotes past tense
Also, as a ship makes a new path through the water it leaves a wake behind it. So even your ship analogy depicts you are still on a path.
A ship in a pathless ocean still sets a course, a path to traverse to get from A to B. A person still sets\makes paths in a pathless land.
The person is not following old paths estabished by others, but is making new ones.
The A to B I am referring to...
I am traveling to where i have always been, from ignorance to enlightenment.
Illogical in itself as if one were already enlightened, one would not be traveling from ignorance to it.
2: Referencing "path of least resistance". Referencing it to what or whom? I asked if there is resistance on your path and you respond with referencing "path of least resistance" but give no indication of what or whom it is referring to.
It would have been far simpler to just answer the simple question of, "Is there resistance on your path or not?", but alas, this is what you make of my enquiries...
Is there resistance or not?
Are you on a path or not? These are demands of satisfaction.. setting the parameters of your demand to your 'yes/no' condition, where that is not the nature of the process.. I wasn't aware there was a rule book on how to ask questions.
The contradictions i saw were clear enough for me to ask yes or no questions.
One line you say there is no resistance, another you say there is little resistance, looks clear enough to me, and even so, you still didn't offer a clear answer, just more criticism about how and why i ask questions.
Again, regarding being on a path or not. Looks clear to me that there is contradiction, you say you are not on a path, but my interpretation of your words say you are, so i asked a simple yes or no question.
Again, an answer that to me shows you are on a path, but to you it doesn't.
---------
There is no path, yet you call it a path of least resistance?
These are the resistances on your path of least resistance? These are not 'questions', they are statements with punctuation that contradicts the nature of a statement.. to which i clarified both 'statements', but.. not to your satisfaction.. sometimes, AC, it is beneficial to continue a dialogue rather than demand satisfaction.. There a scene in Hook, where Peter Pan, as Peter Banning, who doesn't look like Peter Pan to the Lost Boys, first shows up on their island.
Most of the Lost Boys don't believe this grown up is Pan, but one or two do, arguing\debate ensues.
Just before everyone finally realzies it is PeterPan, during the debating, one kid upon realizing the grown up is Pan, asks, "PeterPan's gots kids?"
Take away the question mark and you have a statement, a claim.
Put the qustion mark in however, and it becomes a bonafide question, just like my questions.
"There is no path, yet you call it a path of least resistance? These are the resistances on your path of least resistance?"
I am not claiming these are facts. I am expressing what i see and I am asking you to clarify, to which, yes I am not satisfied with you answers.
Satisfied as in i don't understand your meaning yet, I still see contradiction.
As for "sometimes, AC, it is beneficial to continue a dialogue rather than demand satisfaction.."
I prefer if i can't obtain understanding via enquiries to clarify things, It's best to stop communicating.
Like I said before, I choose not to continue if I currently don't understand what the other is saying. It will just get messier and more confusing.
I get that, really.. i will simply state that it is exhausting to work with you, each statement is carefully dissected, searching for meaning and intent where the statement was its own meaning, and so.. i am curious as to why, when there is no other way for others to state their understandings, you try to make them restate to your satisfaction.. No other way huh? You are aware of what you are saying and why you are saying it, aware of the meaning of your words. I am not, hence the enquiries to understand, to clear up potential misunderstanding.
Just because it's clear to you, does not mean it's clear to me.
Plus, I never said it was exhausting to interact with you. I said I am currently exhausted and did not want to delve into this as I usually do.
But if it's exhausting for you to interact with me, I suggest simply answering my enquiries instead of making a song and dance about it might conserve your strength.
in your 'enquiry' of rsing, your employ of sarcasm and instruction indicates an intent other than clarity, and.. your pleading, "...please make up your mind.", suggests that rsing should comply with your intent.. And it's quite clear to me that you think your perception is correct. You continue to make claims about me, yet do not enquire to verify these claims.
And even when you do, you simply don't believe me or ignore the information.
You're so convinced that what you see is what is really going on.
I had a discussion with another person a long time ago.
They had a rather long list of accusions against me.
I wanted to discuss to verify if they were true or not.
They did not, they simply wanted to remain believing what they saw was true.
I spoke for weeks with this person about it all. The issues were never resolved.
when really, all we can reasonably hope for is that inconsistencies we see in another be seen and hopefully reconciled by working 'together'.. Not when you think you are correct in your interpretion of things.
Like Xan, you have strong beliefs, conversations with people who have strong beliefs, for me, don't last long.
Also they don't last long with people who get their noses bent out of shape when asked simple questions.
Also with people who percieve I am the one with interactive deficiencies and errors and not them.
Tzu, the things i endure is when you and others do all manner of things to avoid answering questions. Sometimes, AC, the questions are answered, but not as you prefer.. that we cannot meet your demands might better be resolved by continued dialogue.. Xan and i have had several intense discussions, and i am always leaving the door open for continued dialogue, as Xan may be intense, but not abusive.. as Dale Carnegie said, "never paint a person into a corner without leaving them an honorable way out".. Humm, on the other hand, has not indicated any intention of having a civil discussion with me, and so remains on the ignore list..
I am eager to have explorations in understanding through dialogue, but demands and abuse will not fare well.. intense scrutiny, when respectfully conducted, is an excellent process for revealing attachment and potential/flexibility.. i remain hopeful. Ha, have you discovered why Xan most if not always ends conversations with you?
Dale Carnagie sounds like an idiot to me. Why even paint a person in a corner in the first place.
Not a good way to conduct oneself in an open, honest and friendly discussion.
Well i hope one day you discover and heal your problem of not being able to cope with people like Humm.
According to what Tzu thinks of your behavior Humm, not me, I enjoy your raging bull persona that fires up from time to time.
Like a raging bull in a china shop. I would enjoy that experience, watching a bull do that.
Just like another scene from Hook.
Jack is with Hook now. Hook wakes up to the ticking sound of Jack's father's watch.
So Hook and Smee and Jack go to the room of clocks and Jack is ever so happy watching Smee and Hook smash all the clocks.
Deep down, his joy being that he so wants to smash his father's watch for never spending time with him.
You are passionate and will not hesitate to stand up for what you believe is worth fighting for.
Anyways....Tzu, what say you about post #242?
silent whisper
01-02-2012, 09:19 PM
Here I am again,revisiting and undating\clarifying.
What are you defending against?
I ask because...
I ask because...
Defend means fight against or resist strongly.
I see a contradiction regarding your claim there is no resistance, if defending is resistance and so I enquired about it.
Here's the answer I recieved...
No answer at all actually. Just about completely avoided answering the question and diverted the focus back towards me by asking me three questions.
I say just about avoided because I take this as an inferred answer "Are you familiar with the phrase, "path of least resistance"?"
To which I then asked...
To which you responded with...
Which looks to me as an apt description of a path of least resistance, to which I then said...
Originally you said, "no resistance on your path", but later clarified by saying "very little". A path of least resistance.
I then ask this, because I am still concluding you used "path of least resistence" to describe your path that you are on...
To which you respond with...
1: If you were referring to the path you were on, to avoid potential confusion, it would have been helpful to use "was" instead of "is" as you repeatedly did...
...'is' denotes current tense, 'was' denotes past tense
Also, as a ship makes a new path through the water it leaves a wake behind it. So even your ship analogy depicts you are still on a path.
A ship in a pathless ocean still sets a course, a path to traverse to get from A to B. A person still sets\makes paths in a pathless land.
The person is not following old paths estabished by others, but is making new ones.
The A to B I am referring to...
Illogical in itself as if one were already enlightened, one would not be traveling from ignorance to it.
2: Referencing "path of least resistance". Referencing it to what or whom? I asked if there is resistance on your path and you respond with referencing "path of least resistance" but give no indication of what or whom it is referring to.
It would have been far simpler to just answer the simple question of, "Is there resistance on your path or not?", but alas, this is what you make of my enquiries...
I wasn't aware there was a rule book on how to ask questions.
The contradictions i saw were clear enough for me to ask yes or no questions.
One line you say there is no resistance, another you say there is little resistance, looks clear enough to me, and even so, you still didn't offer a clear answer, just more criticism about how and why i ask questions.
Again, regarding being on a path or not. Looks clear to me that there is contradiction, you say you are not on a path, but my interpretation of your words say you are, so i asked a simple yes or no question.
Again, an answer that to me shows you are on a path, but to you it doesn't.
---------
There a scene in Hook, where Peter Pan, as Peter Banning, who doesn't look like Peter Pan to the Lost Boys, first shows up on their island.
Most of the Lost Boys don't believe this grown up is Pan, but one or two do, arguing\debate ensues.
Just before everyone finally realzies it is PeterPan, during the debating, one kid upon realizing the grown up is Pan, asks, "PeterPan's gots kids?"
Take away the question mark and you have a statement, a claim.
Put the qustion mark in however, and it becomes a bonafide question, just like my questions.
"There is no path, yet you call it a path of least resistance? These are the resistances on your path of least resistance?"
I am not claiming these are facts. I am expressing what i see and I am asking you to clarify, to which, yes I am not satisfied with you answers.
Satisfied as in i don't understand your meaning yet, I still see contradiction.
As for "sometimes, AC, it is beneficial to continue a dialogue rather than demand satisfaction.."
I prefer if i can't obtain understanding via enquiries to clarify things, It's best to stop communicating.
Like I said before, I choose not to continue if I currently don't understand what the other is saying. It will just get messier and more confusing.
No other way huh? You are aware of what you are saying and why you are saying it, aware of the meaning of your words. I am not, hence the enquiries to understand, to clear up potential misunderstanding.
Just because it's clear to you, does not mean it's clear to me.
Plus, I never said it was exhausting to interact with you. I said I am currently exhausted and did not want to delve into this as I usually do.
But if it's exhausting for you to interact with me, I suggest simply answering my enquiries instead of making a song and dance about it might conserve your strength.
And it's quite clear to me that you think your perception is correct. You continue to make claims about me, yet do not enquire to verify these claims.
And even when you do, you simply don't believe me or ignore the information.
You're so convinced that what you see is what is really going on.
I had a discussion with another person a long time ago.
They had a rather long list of accusions against me.
I wanted to discuss to verify if they were true or not.
They did not, they simply wanted to remain believing what they saw was true.
I spoke for weeks with this person about it all. The issues were never resolved.
Not when you think you are correct in your interpretion of things.
Like Xan, you have strong beliefs, conversations with people who have strong beliefs, for me, don't last long.
Also they don't last long with people who get their noses bent out of shape when asked simple questions.
Also with people who percieve I am the one with interactive deficiencies and errors and not them.
Ha, have you discovered why Xan most if not always ends conversations with you?
Dale Carnagie sounds like an idiot to me. Why even paint a person in a corner in the first place.
Not a good way to conduct oneself in an open, honest and friendly discussion.
Well i hope one day you discover and heal your problem of not being able to cope with people like Humm.
According to what Tzu thinks of your behavior Humm, not me, I enjoy your raging bull persona that fires up from time to time.
Like a raging bull in a china shop. I would enjoy that experience, watching a bull do that.
Just like another scene from Hook.
Jack is with Hook now. Hook wakes up to the ticking sound of Jack's father's watch.
So Hook and Smee and Jack go to the room of clocks and Jack is ever so happy watching Smee and Hook smash all the clocks.
Deep down, his joy being that he so wants to smash his father's watch for never spending time with him.
You are passionate and will not hesitate to stand up for what you believe is worth fighting for.
Anyways....Tzu, what say you about post #242?
your dissection has me in awe.....truly.......such dedication to self.
Mountain-Goat
01-02-2012, 09:29 PM
It's just plain old simple silent observation coupled with conscious evaluation(thinking), silent whisper.
silent whisper
01-02-2012, 10:01 PM
It's just plain old simple silent observation coupled with conscious evaluation(thinking), silent whisper.
And as we simplify further through silent observation and conscious evaluation it becomes simplified even further.
And simply put, I admire your dedication.....
TzuJanLi
02-02-2012, 03:09 AM
Greetings..
Here I am again,revisiting and undating\clarifying.
Quote:
"To Infinity, and beyond", (Buzz Lightyear).. hi Dar, i don't know if my path is 'correct', it's not a criteria that interests me.. i am interested in the consequences of my relationships with Life, whether those consequences inspire harmony, and do they ease the struggles of others.. i intend no harm, except where unavoidable in defense of the defenseless,
What are you defending against?
I ask because...
In defense of the defenseless.. self-evident, asked and answered..
I do not know if my path is correct, as the future is written with each step i take.. but, there is no resistance(highlighted by AC), each step reveals a deeper and more vast experience, a simple elegance of majestic proportions.. i don't know if my path is correct, it is behind me now, like the wake of a ship.. my adventure is not about my path, i left the path ages ago, it is about finding my own way, through a "pathless land"..
The reference to "path of least resistance", is in response to your highlighting "there is no resistance", when you stated you "ask because".. i am not claiming a 'path', simply offering you a reference for the term 'resistance'..
I ask because...
Defend means fight against or resist strongly.
I see a contradiction regarding your claim there is no resistance, if defending is resistance and so I enquired about it.
Here's the answer I recieved...
Hi AC: Why do you ask? Are you familiar with the phrase, "path of least resistance"?.. so, what is it about you that feels compelled to act as mediator, even when there's nothing to mediate? This has been a recurring theme in our discussions.
Defending the defenseless does not constitute resistance in my experience, it is an act of compassion, naturally occurring.. again, the original statement was self-explanatory..
Note here, that i reference your intention to 'mediate', to secure your intention that i acquiesce to your self-appointed mediation of my choice to place Humm on the ignore list.. you will see later your attachment to getting your way..
No answer at all actually. Just about completely avoided answering the question and diverted the focus back towards me by asking me three questions.
I say just about avoided because I take this as an inferred answer "Are you familiar with the phrase, "path of least resistance"?"
To which I then asked...
Since you had shifted focus from defending the defenseless, to "paths", i was not able to follow your reasoning.. i was only hoping to help you understand the use of resistance, since your highlighting and query revealed confusion of the reference to 'resistance'..
Is there resistance or not?
To which you responded with...
It depends on the experiencer.. for me, very little..
Which looks to me as an apt description of a path of least resistance, to which I then said...
The answer, "very little" refers to resistance, not path.. the 'path' reference was only to assist you in understanding my use of the term 'resistance'.. not a claim to a 'path'.. but, you know this, it is the ideal of the argument you are embracing..
Thanks for clearing up your previous statement there was no resistance within your journey.
Originally you said, "no resistance on your path", but later clarified by saying "very little". A path of least resistance.
I then ask this, because I am still concluding you used "path of least resistence" to describe your path that you are on...
There is no path, yet you call it a path of least resistance?
To which you respond with...
I highlight your use of "A path of least resistance", to indicate that i do not, at any point, claim such a path.. you have simply seized upon a phrase to misappropriate as my intended meaning, and i have no such intended meaning..
The 'path', when referred to as, "i don't know if my path is correct", refers to where i have been, like the wake of a ship.. there is no 'path' ahead of me, no destination..
"Are you familiar with the phrase, "path of least resistance"?.." This is a question, intended to help you understand the reference to 'resistance', and.. it is an oft cited quote, not what "i call it", but a reference of convenience.
1: If you were referring to the path you were on, to avoid potential confusion, it would have been helpful to use "was" instead of "is" as you repeatedly did...
I do not know if my path is correct, as the future is written with each step i take.. but, there is no resistance, each step reveals a deeper and more vast experience, a simple elegance of majestic proportions.. i don't know if my path is correct, it is behind me now, like the wake of a ship.. my adventure is not about my path, i left the path ages ago, it is about finding my own way, through a "pathless land"..
...'is' denotes current tense, 'was' denotes past tense
Also, as a ship makes a new path through the water it leaves a wake behind it. So even your ship analogy depicts you are still on a path. "Behind" denotes 'past', the ship's wake indicates where the ship 'was', the ship 'makes the path'..
A ship in a pathless ocean still sets a course, a path to traverse to get from A to B. A person still sets\makes paths in a pathless land.
The person is not following old paths estabished by others, but is making new ones.
Please do not assume that everyone functions as you do, somewhere between "A to B".. i often 'set sail' (that's an analogy for engage Life) without a 'destination' in mind (destination is an analogy for expectations').. true discovery is not a destination, and destinations are only new points of departure for the explorer..
The A to B I am referring to...
I am traveling to where i have always been, from ignorance to enlightenment. (and, i add the rest of the context: "the vehicle is awareness,and.. there is no path.."
Illogical in itself as if one were already enlightened, one would not be traveling from ignorance to it.
Having added the context conveniently left out.. it can be observed that it is the experiencer's interpretation of their own condition, ignorant or enlightened, that is the journey.. where simple awareness would reveal there was never anywhere to go..
2: Referencing "path of least resistance". Referencing it to what or whom? I asked if there is resistance on your path and you respond with referencing "path of least resistance" but give no indication of what or whom it is referring to.
It would have been far simpler to just answer the simple question of, "Is there resistance on your path or not?", but alas, this is what you make of my enquiries...
Asked and answered, will the prosecution continue, please..
Is there resistance or not?
Are you on a path or not?
These are demands of satisfaction.. setting the parameters of your demand to your 'yes/no' condition, where that is not the nature of the process..
I wasn't aware there was a rule book on how to ask questions.
The contradictions i saw were clear enough for me to ask yes or no questions.
One line you say there is no resistance, another you say there is little resistance, looks clear enough to me, and even so, you still didn't offer a clear answer, just more criticism about how and why i ask questions.
Again, regarding being on a path or not. Looks clear to me that there is contradiction, you say you are not on a path, but my interpretation of your words say you are, so i asked a simple yes or no question.
Again, an answer that to me shows you are on a path, but to you it doesn't.
As i said sometime back, you will see what you choose to see.. i will answer questions in the manner of my own choosing, just as you will ask them in the manner of your choosing.. i will lead you to the answer, but i can't make you think in terms that are not between "A to B", and.. the answer is not there..
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Dale Carnagie sounds like an idiot to me. Why even paint a person in a corner in the first place.
Imagine how you would have sounded to him..
Not a good way to conduct oneself in an open, honest and friendly discussion.
But, whether you agree or not, you are attempting to do that to me..
Well i hope one day you discover and heal your problem of not being able to cope with people like Humm.
I can "cope with Humm", i choose not to.. he is not civil nor rational when confronted with his misconceptions.. As i referenced earlier, you reveal here your attachment to mediating a solution to a situation i have already explained is my choice.. and, you are simply expressing your dissatisfaction with my choice by being argumentative.. and, i get that, but it will not change based on anything you think you can do..
Anyways....Tzu, what say you about post #242?
I say you like to hear yourself talk, and you use the bully pulpit of lengthy verbose replies to appear to have something to say.. when, what you do is use up vast amounts of space to ask questions whose answers are clear at their origins, but which you can construe into a protracted argument, and to tell Peter Pan stories.. when given an answer, there is benefit to contemplating that answer in terms other than those you want to see on the screen..
Be well..
Silver
02-02-2012, 03:28 AM
I have ta say ~ good on you, Tzu.
Mountain-Goat
02-02-2012, 11:12 AM
One more go and I'm done.
In defense of the defenseless.. self-evident, asked and answered.. Yet I never asked who you were defending, i asked what were you defending (the defenseless) against?
And your answer to, what are you defending against?..."in defense of the defenseless."
The reference to "path of least resistance", is in response to your highlighting "there is no resistance", when you stated you "ask because".. i am not claiming a 'path', simply offering you a reference for the term 'resistance'.. To which you still haven't explained who or what the reference is connected with, just some vague notion about teaching me what resistance means.
You said there is no resistance on your non path journey from ignorance to enlightenment, but you defend the defenseless on the way.
I stated that defending is resistance to that which is attacking the defenseless.
To which I enquired is this why you used the term, "path of least resisitance"
To which you then said, there is a small amount of resistance on your non path from ignorance to enlightenment.
To which i then said, well that looks like a path of least resistance to me.
Which brings us right back to the beginning...again.
Defending the defenseless does not constitute resistance in my experience, it is an act of compassion, naturally occurring.. again, the original statement was self-explanatory.. Soo, you or the defenseless have nothing to stand up against?
Note here, that i reference your intention to 'mediate', to secure your intention that i acquiesce to your self-appointed mediation of my choice to place Humm on the ignore list.. you will see later your attachment to getting your way.. I regard mediating as a worthwhile cause and will continue to do so according to my own judgement, regardless of what you or others think of it.
Since you had shifted focus from defending the defenseless, to "paths", i was not able to follow your reasoning.. Two separate issues...not that hard to follow.
One was about resistance, the other was about paths.
It was you that introduced the merging of the two with the term, "path of least resistance."
i was only hoping to help you understand the use of resistance, since your highlighting and query revealed confusion of the reference to 'resistance'.. There was no confusion on my part, you first said there was no resistance, then you said you were defending , which involves resisting, to which you then said there is a little resisiting.
The confusion arises because you don't see defending has any element of resisting...i do. Thanks for clarifying.
The answer, "very little" refers to resistance, Yes, i'm well aware of that.
not path.. the 'path' reference was only to assist you in understanding my use of the term 'resistance'.. not a claim to a 'path'.. Right...so you use a term "path of least resistance" in reference to there being a little resistance on your journey, but the "path" part of the reference has nothing to do with your journey.
Yeah, thanks for making it so clear by referencing a term where half of it has nothing to do with what you are trying to explain.
I highlight your use of "A path of least resistance", to indicate that i do not, at any point, claim such a path.. you have simply seized upon a phrase to misappropriate as my intended meaning, and i have no such intended meaning..I didn't use the term Tzu, you did. You're the one who introduced it.
You said it in inferred reference to the little resistance on your journey, not me.
"Behind" denotes 'past', the ship's wake indicates where the ship 'was', the ship 'makes the path'.. You being the ship...that continues to make a path?
Please do not assume that everyone functions as you do, somewhere between "A to B".. i often 'set sail' (that's an analogy for engage Life) without a 'destination' in mind (destination is an analogy for expectations').. true discovery is not a destination, and destinations are only new points of departure for the explorer.. From ignorance to enlightenment is from A to B. The destination is enlightenment.
I can only comment on what you say.
Having added the context conveniently left out.. it can be observed that it is the experiencer's interpretation of their own condition, ignorant or enlightened, that is the journey.. where simple awareness would reveal there was never anywhere to go..
Unclear, did you leave out the context or did I?
If there was never anywhere to go there would be no traveling from ignorance to enlightenment.
Asked and answered, will the prosecution continue, please.. If that is what you view my enquiries as, then that is what you see.
As i said sometime back, you will see what you choose to see.. And you also said you will see what you choose to see.
i will answer questions in the manner of my own choosing, just as you will ask them in the manner of your choosing.. i will lead you to the answer, but i can't make you think in terms that are not between "A to B", and.. the answer is not there.. The you haven't lead me to an answer.
You think you have and when I continue to enquire you think I'm being stubborn and refusing to see the answer.
Not satisfies as you call it.
Imagine how you would have sounded to him.. Why would I assume, I would simply ask him.
But, whether you agree or not, you are attempting to do that to me.. We each see what we choose to see.
I have stated my intentions of why I enquire, you are free to come to any conclusions you wish.
They are your conclusions and have nothing to do with my intentions.
Meaning, you can accuse me of anything you wish, I will still conduct myself in the same manner of what i stated.
I can "cope with Humm", i choose not to.. he is not civil nor rational when confronted with his misconceptions.. And this bothers you, to which i said i hope you get that sorted out so you are not bothered any more.
As i referenced earlier, you reveal here your attachment to mediating a solution to a situation i have already explained is my choice.. I think you'll find you are attached to your Humm issue because you have brought it up twice recently and I have not gone anywhere near it.
and, you are simply expressing your dissatisfaction with my choice by being argumentative.. and, i get that, but it will not change based on anything you think you can do.. I saw a long time ago you had no intention of changing and I dropped all enquiries about Humm back then.
The last few interactions you and I have had, I have not brought up your Humm, issue, you have.
The last few interactions have been about paths and resistance, why you brought up your Humm issue...
I have no idea or why you accuse me of bringing it up.
I say you like to hear yourself talk, and you use the bully pulpit of lengthy verbose replies to appear to have something to say.. when, what you do is use up vast amounts of space to ask questions whose answers are clear at their origins, but which you can construe into a protracted argument, and to tell Peter Pan stories.. when given an answer, there is benefit to contemplating that answer in terms other than those you want to see on the screen..
Be well.. Wow, so just because I ask questions to help me understand and clarify your meaning, you interpret that as what you have said up there!
All that just from me seeing a contradiction about resistance and paths, and enquiring about it.
There were no peterpan stories in post 242.
Actually it appears to me your last paragragh is in reference to everything i have said barr post 242.
sound
02-02-2012, 11:41 AM
I regard mediating as a worthwhile cause and will continue to do so according to my own judgement, regardless of what you or others think of it.
Hi AC
I agree that mediation can be very worthwhile when both parties consent to it being facilitated by a third person, who both parties also agree to.
In saying that, if consent has not been granted by one or more of the involved parties, do you not consider that to be an imposition, which has the potential to exacerbate further what you consider to be a problem?
I am asking this from my personal perspective, and prefer please AC, that you avoid relating it back to any current conflict you perceive may be occurring between other members.
With every respect, i am not sure i would find your insistence on mediating helpful in my efforts to resolve any issues i may experience here in the community. We are not registered as mediators in SF ... I would consider that to be more of a moderators role in situations in which they consider may be helpful/effective/fair to use a meditation process before DA etc.
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