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frenchdavid
27-12-2011, 04:04 PM
Why the jews don't believe in Muhammad (islam) ?

Animus27
28-12-2011, 05:35 AM
If my understanding is correct, it is because he has corrupted the teachings of Moses and the Torah.

Yamah
29-12-2011, 07:12 AM
Why WOULD the Jews believe in Muhammad (islam)? What has he said or done that would inspire belief?

psychoslice
29-12-2011, 08:54 AM
Why don't Christians believe in Muhammad, its just not in their scriptures.

mattie
29-12-2011, 09:23 AM
Why dont the Muslims believe in Judaism? Why dont New Agers believe in organized religion? Why dont Buddhists believe in fundamentalist Christianity? Its just not their belief system.

AngelicOrin
29-12-2011, 10:49 AM
Why the jews don't believe in Muhammad (islam) ?

There is more to it, than what the others have said...and I am going to actually answer your question based on my own knowledge on Judaism.

In Judaism, there is no other higher being than God himself. Only God is worshipped and no one else, and this is one of the 10 commandments headed by God to Moses to lead the Jewish people. Also, in Judaism, they believe that their people are the favourites, the chosen ones picked by God to live by his way through the Torah, through the commandments - therefore, they would see both Christianity and Islam as discourses of their own religion.

Islam on the other hand, recognises both Judaism and Christianity. However, believe that their religion is the final product of lessons taught after the "failings" (quite possibly with Jesus) of Judaism and Christianity.

Yamah
29-12-2011, 11:52 AM
We can put the concepts of Chosenness, Worship, Commandments and even Religion aside when answering this question.

Jews believe, first and foremost, in concrete proof. Nothing is believed solely based on scripture or heresay. The Torah itself is not accepted based on mere 'herp, we have a book and it says God wrote it derp', it is accepted because God gave a vision to all the people of Israel that followed Moses telling them 'I am giving my sacred word to Moses' (Exodus 19-20, esp. 19:9, 20:18-19, 20:22). Thus God told all of His people 'THIS IS MY PROPHET'.

When it comes to Muhammad and Jesus and most other prophetic people usually what happens is the individual comes along and says 'God spoke to me so I am a prophet'... and what reason do you have to believe him? It's basically the same argument as "I am right because I say I am right". And miracles or prophecies aren't proof of divinity - as is well known, magic can do many things that prophets can (see Exodus 7:10-11 and Deuteronomy 13:1-3).

So in short, Jews don't not believe in Islam and Christianity because it is a threat to our faith or religion or what not... it can be understood that God might forsake us (please God don't do it). But if He did do that then he would at least give actual proof instead of a crazy claim by some guy who lived in a cave.

Animus27
29-12-2011, 11:54 PM
The Torah itself is not accepted based on mere 'herp, we have a book and it says God wrote it derp'
LOL!

That is very interesting, Yamah. And it's another reason why I've always looked with a fond eye upon Judaism.

Bluegreen
10-01-2012, 11:18 AM
This speaks for itself:


"O Thou! whose abstract nature is free from illustrations and whose attributes are beyond examples". (Al-Saffat, Chapter 37, Verse 80)

"La Illaha Illallah!" (Muhammad, Chapter 47, Verse 19). "There is no god but God"

"Say that we believe in Allah and in that which has been revealed to us, and in that which was revealed to Abraham and Ishmael, to Isaac and Jacob and the Tribes, and in that which was given to the Prophets from their Lord. We do not make any distinction between any of them". (Al-Baqra, Chapter 2, Verse 136).

The Islamic teaching about prayer is a deep one, bringing it closer to the nature of meditation. Says the Quran:
"There is no prayer unless the heart is present".

The Quranic view of charity is equally profound:
"Thou shalt never attain to righteousness unless thou givest out what thou lovest". (Al-Imran, Chapter 3, Verse 92).

"When the Quran is recited, listen to it in silence so that you may be shown mercy. Remember your Lord deep in your soul with humility and reverence, and without ostentation: in the morning and in the evening; and do not be negligent.
Those who dwell with your Lord do not disdain His service. They give glory to Him and prostrate themselves before Him."

Ilmi-Safina or knowledge of the book, and Ilm-i-Sinah or knowledge of the heart.
http://www.theosophy.org.nz/Publications/Pamphlets/TheosophyAndIslam.html

Arabs and Jews have the same forefather: Abraham.

slave of Allaah
10-01-2012, 02:08 PM
This speaks for itself:


"O Thou! whose abstract nature is free from illustrations and whose attributes are beyond examples". (Al-Saffat, Chapter 37, Verse 80)

"La Illaha Illallah!" (Muhammad, Chapter 47, Verse 19). "There is no god but God"

"Say that we believe in Allah and in that which has been revealed to us, and in that which was revealed to Abraham and Ishmael, to Isaac and Jacob and the Tribes, and in that which was given to the Prophets from their Lord. We do not make any distinction between any of them". (Al-Baqra, Chapter 2, Verse 136).

The Islamic teaching about prayer is a deep one, bringing it closer to the nature of meditation. Says the Quran:
"There is no prayer unless the heart is present".

The Quranic view of charity is equally profound:
"Thou shalt never attain to righteousness unless thou givest out what thou lovest". (Al-Imran, Chapter 3, Verse 92).

"When the Quran is recited, listen to it in silence so that you may be shown mercy. Remember your Lord deep in your soul with humility and reverence, and without ostentation: in the morning and in the evening; and do not be negligent.
Those who dwell with your Lord do not disdain His service. They give glory to Him and prostrate themselves before Him."

Ilmi-Safina or knowledge of the book, and Ilm-i-Sinah or knowledge of the heart.
http://www.theosophy.org.nz/Publications/Pamphlets/TheosophyAndIslam.html

Arabs and Jews have the same forefather: Abraham.
Hi Bluegreen!

I agree with your post, but the colored verses are not in the Quran!

Yet the meaning of what you quoted from the source (not the whole source) match the Quran.

Bluegreen
10-01-2012, 02:29 PM
Hi Bluegreen!

I agree with your post, but the colored verses are not in the Quran!

Yet the meaning of what you quoted from the source (not the whole source) match the Quran.
If not in the Quran, then part of the belief system don't you think?

Mathew James
11-01-2012, 07:48 PM
Why the jews don't believe in Muhammad (islam) ?

There are three parts to the Word of GOD. They are the Torah, the Gospel, and the Quran. The benefit of knowing all three parts is that a person can know in full. Read one part and a person will only know in one part. There is also a very important reason to know the third part. The first part and the second part are both cut off before the Last Day. There is/was a time when, the first part (Torah) and the second part (Gospel), of the Word of GOD are both cut off and no longer bring Truth to the world. But the third part (Quran) lives. The third part is refined and tried by God to make them the strongest in faith, which is Islam.

This was prophesied by the prophet Zechariah in chapter 13, verses 7 to 9 where it reads; Awake, O sword, against my shepherd, and against the man that is my fellow, saith the Lord of hosts: smite the shepherd, and the sheep shall be scattered: and I will turn mine hand upon the little ones. And it shall come to pass, that in all the land, saith the Lord, two parts (Torah and Gospel) therein shall be cut off and die; but the third (Quran) shall be left therein. And I will bring the third part (Islam/Quran) through the fire, and will refine them as silver is refined, and will try them as gold is tried, they shall call on my name, and I will hear them: I will say, it is my people: and they shall say, The Lord is my GOD.


mj

Yamah
12-01-2012, 12:28 AM
If you would like to discuss the Quran I would politely request you do so on the Islam subforum.

Mathew James
12-01-2012, 12:40 AM
If you would like to discuss the Quran I would politely request you do so on the Islam subforum.


Did you read the question in the post or are you that confused?

mj

Mathew James
12-01-2012, 12:46 AM
Why the jews don't believe in Muhammad (islam) ?

The jews do not know that Muhammad was the Last Prophet from God because the jews have been cut off from the Truth. The jews rejected the prophets and followed after their own lusts time after time, so God cut the jews off. That is why the jews do not believe in Muhammad.

mj

slave of Allaah
12-01-2012, 02:56 PM
...

The jews are the most people who know very well that Sir Muhammad, peace be upon him, is the messenger of God. (at least the former jews who lived with him)

Those to whom We gave the Scripture recognise him as they recongise their sons. But verily, a party of them conceal the truth while they know it. (146) [Quran: Ch.2]

When the pagans of Madinah visited Mecca for pilgrimage (the Arab mixed the religion of Abraham with their falsehood of paganism), they heared that there is a man here claiming himself to be a prophet!

They told themselves: "this is what the jews were promising you with"

The jews were saying to the pagans of Madinah: "This is a time of a prophet. By Allah, when he comes, we will follow him and kill you as Aad and thamud were killed"

And when there came to them (the Jews), a Book (this Qur'n) from Allh confirming what is with them, although aforetime they had invoked Allh (for coming of Muhammad Peace be upon him ) in order to gain victory over those who disbelieved, then when there came to them that which they had recognised, they disbelieved in it. So let the Curse of Allh be on the disbelievers. (89) [Quran: Ch.2]

Yet, Not all of them are alike; a party of the people of the Scripture stand for the right, they recite the Verses of Allh during the hours of the night, prostrating themselves in prayer. (113) They believe in Allh and the Last Day; they enjoin righteousness and forbid injustice; and they hasten in good works; and they are among the righteous. (114) And whatever good they do, nothing will be rejected of them; for Allh knows well those who are the pious. (115) [Quran: Ch.3]

The master of the jews in Madinah believed in prophet Muhammad, and his story can be found here http://www.islamreligion.com/articles/1692/

I love that man very much.

...

RabbiO
13-01-2012, 01:41 AM
The jews do not know that Muhammad was the Last Prophet from God because the jews have been cut off from the Truth. The jews rejected the prophets and followed after their own lusts time after time, so God cut the jews off. That is why the jews do not believe in Muhammad.
mj

You being a Muslim and I being a Jew means that we are not going to agree on a number of things when it comes to religion. I understand that and I respect the differences between us - just as I appreciate that, for example, there are Christians who would disagree with both of us, and we with them.

I do post on other sub-forums if I believe either Jews or Judaism are being misrepresented. I post on other sub-forums regarding Jewish scriptures and Hebrew meanings. Although I may not be 100% successful I try to treat the religions of others, and the adherents themselves, with the same respect I would expect to receive.

Maybe I am wrong, but I suspect that you would offended if a post similar to yours above were to be posted on Islam sub-forum with Muslims substituted for Jews.

B'shalom,

Peter

slave of Allaah
14-01-2012, 11:54 AM
The jews rejected the prophets and followed after their own lusts time after time, so God cut the jews off.

Nothing of what you said is wrong Mathew. It is all true.

Never God will seek their/our pleasure. We need to run after His pleasure ourselves.

We need the Peace. The Peace doesn't need us. He just love to enlighten us due to His Mercy, but if we claim that He need us, He will cut us off ... so that the disbelievers knows that they were liars. (39) [Quran: Ch.16]

....

BTW, Peter!

I hope you will be like the master of the jews whom I love.

AngelicOrin
14-01-2012, 12:04 PM
I am currently studying the philosophy of world religions at University at this present moment, and I would like to share that Jews have a list of descriptions of who and what a Messiah should be, and I have included on why Jesus is not a Messiah of Judaism, hence, considering Muhammed was alive AFTER Jesus, and also started a new religion himself...many listed may also apply to him as well.

Rabbi, please correct me anywhere, if I am incorrect.


Jesus did not fulfill the messianic prophecies. He did not build the Third Temple (Ezekiel 37:26-28), Gather all Jews back to the Land of Israel (Isaiah 43:5-6), bring in an era of world peace, and end all hatred, oppression, suffering and disease. Or even spread universal knowledge of the God of Israel, which will unite humanity as one. As it says: "God will be King over all the world ― on that day, God will be One and His Name will be One" (Zechariah 14:9)
Jesus did not embody the personal qualifications of the Messiah, as he did not live during the time of the prophecy of the second Moses - 300 years too late apparently. Jesus was born to the Virgin Mary, and was considered supernatural" and he also rejected the Torah.
Biblical verses "referring" to Jesus are not interpreted properly. For example: The Virgin birth, "alma" is used in the Herbew text and means young woman and or giving birth - that was changed to virginal birth...also Jesus having a divine father is a Hellenstic (Ancient Greek) ideology.
Jewish belief is based on national revelation, and we ALL will know when the next Messiah will come.


Therefore, there has been no Messiah - yet, according to Judaism.

Now please stop this CHILDISH putting down of other people's faiths, by saying "mine is better than yours"...that is how wars start in this beautiful world of ours! I for one is not a Christian, Jewish nor Muslim - but an outsider, and is very much comfortable in my electic faith. But that aside, it is rather pathetic to see such childish behaviour, and yes I am being brutally honest here. The mature thing would be to do, is to discuss each other faiths, learn from one another, see the differences and accept them - it is called being tolerant.

Maybe even consider the quote in my signature, which is from Thomas Aquinas and I believe it applies to everyone of every faith on our God-given planet.

Peace!

Yamah
14-01-2012, 10:58 PM
Thank you AngelicOrin for your wonderful post.

AngelicOrin
14-01-2012, 11:11 PM
Thank you AngelicOrin for your wonderful post.

No problem.

Mathew James
14-01-2012, 11:42 PM
Maybe I am wrong, but I suspect that you would offended if a post similar to yours above were to be posted on Islam sub-forum with Muslims substituted for Jews.



you are correct Peter, but when a post is made as you stated it should be read and a comment can be made. That is the best thing about this type of forum. It is my opinion that people should be able to defend their belief. There are many people on this forum who will challenge other peoples faith/comments and that is a good thing.

Maybe the issue here is more about how the post question was written. It seems to invite Muslims to comment on Jews and that may not be what was intended. Sorry for offending you. The Torah, the Gospel, and the Qur'an are all very precious to me.

mj

Yamah
16-01-2012, 07:04 AM
Matthew,

I have already answered this thread twice and both of my responses make the identical point which I believe is a response to all the 'questions' asked herein, including your post. It should be noted that nobody responded to my post either.

If you would like I will repeat it again, this time bluntly.

Muhammad was a false prophet. The Quran is a false book. There is no evidence to the contrary and thus no reason to believe otherwise.

Keeping this in mind, nothing you can say about the Quran matters because this initial point hasn't been transgressed. I know that you believe otherwise, most likely (as most intellectual muslims) because you have seen the 'proofs of divine knowledge' from the Quran (all of which are weak). I know that nothing I can say will convince you that your Quran is false and nothing you can say will prove to us that the Quran is true... so all continuing this conversation will do is create feelings of either frustration (if you're a good person) or arrogance (if you're a bad person) which will only contribute to the animosity between Jews and Muslims.

Mathew James
16-01-2012, 03:13 PM
Thank you Yamah. but imo we do not need to agree on everything, because if God wanted us to agree on everything we would.


mj

RabbiO
16-01-2012, 06:55 PM
AO -

Thank you for your post, especially your final point.

As has been pointed out before, Judaism teaches that the righteous of all nations have a share in what is referred to as עולם הבא, olam ha-ba, the world to come. As such, it is not my practice to bash other religions and/or their adherents although obviously I have differences with them else I would be a Hindu, a Buddhist, a Christian, a Wiccan or whatever. I try to accentuate the things that unite us, rather than the things that divide us.

----------------------------------

Mathew -

If the question initiating this thread had been posted on the Islam sub-forum I would agree that the poster was seeking a response primarily from a Muslim perspective. As it was posted on the Judaism sub-forum I suspect that the poster was seeking primarily Jewish perspectives as to why Jews do not accept Muhammad as a prophet and the Qu'ran as sacred scripture.

This, of course, does not mean that a Muslim response was prohibited, but your response was unnecessarily harsh and provocative which resulted in Yamah's equally provocative and harsh response. There has to be a better way.

---------------------------
Slave of Allah -

While I appreciate your passion for Islam, as I told you when you p.m.ed sometime ago, I do not appreciate your attempts to proselytize. I am not, nor are the other Jews on this forum, spiritual reclamation projects. I understand that you believe that you are acting out of good will and concern, but the truth is that you are displaying a spiritual arrogance in deciding what you believe is my relationship, and the relationship of other Jews, to G-d.

You do not seem to understand that although there are Jews who have become Muslims, there are Muslims who have become Jews - just as there are Jews who have come Christians, Hindus, Buddhists, Wiccans etc. and there are Christians, Buddhists, Hindus, Wiccans etc. who have become Jews. There have always been people who convert from one thing to another.

B'shalom,

Peter

slave of Allaah
16-01-2012, 09:27 PM
Peter -
I never make it personal. I am speaking generally.
May your relationship with God get stronger. I don't want to cut it off.

It is kind of you to answer this Q:
What is the result of disobeying/refusing the messengers of God?

Now your answer is not a decision you make against people. yes?

Mathew James
16-01-2012, 11:17 PM
well said Rabbi0


mj

slave of Allaah
17-01-2012, 06:15 AM
...

Verily! Those who believed and those who are Jews and Christians, and Sabians, whoever believes in Allh and the Last Day and do righteous good deeds shall have their reward with their Lord, on them shall be no fear, nor shall they grieve. (62) [Quran:Ch2]


This is just to cool down, but the details will come later on.

I don't want Satan to reveal in your heart dear jewish brothers that God is against you while you are good with Him.

psychoslice
17-01-2012, 06:40 AM
...

Verily! Those who believed and those who are Jews and Christians, and Sabians, whoever believes in Allh and the Last Day and do righteous good deeds shall have their reward with their Lord, on them shall be no fear, nor shall they grieve. (62) [Quran:Ch2]

...
Interesting verse, do all Muslims hold true to this verse, just wondering, thanks.

slave of Allaah
17-01-2012, 07:52 AM
Interesting verse, do all Muslims hold true to this verse, just wondering, thanks.
Hi psychoslice,

I don't know.

I added a comment in the previous post, I hope you see it again.

psychoslice
17-01-2012, 08:30 AM
Hi psychoslice,

I don't know.

I added a comment in the previous post, I hope you see it again.
Thanks slave of Allaah, i have read the Quran, but don't remember that verse in those words, but that might be because of the English translation, I'll have to find my Quran and have another look, thanks again.

slave of Allaah
17-01-2012, 09:33 AM
psychoslice!

I understood your question as if all muslims interpret that verse the same, but if wondered whether all muslims accept it as a Quranic verse, then the answer is yes of course.

..

Mathew James
17-01-2012, 01:37 PM
...

Verily! Those who believed and those who are Jews and Christians, and Sabians, whoever believes in Allh and the Last Day and do righteous good deeds shall have their reward with their Lord, on them shall be no fear, nor shall they grieve. (62) [Quran:Ch2]



This verse is very true. We will be judged on what we were given, not by what we were not given. And we shall surely be judged by our deeds. It is God that reveals all things in this world. The Jews will be judged by the Torah, the Christians will be judged by the Gospel and the Muslims will be judged by the Qur'an. These three faiths are all brothers in God. God married the Jews to the Torah, but does not reveal the Gospel and the Qur'an to the Jews. God married the Gospel to the Christians and the Christians will be judged by what they do for or against the Gospel. The Christians will not be judged by the Qur'an because God does not reveal it to them. They are cut off from it. And God married the Muslims to the Qur'an and by the Qur'an shall the Muslims be judged.

God gave all of nature to know Him by and many other prophets to those outside the Abrahamic faiths. God seals His faith in every persons hand. We believe or we do not believe.

mj

RabbiO
17-01-2012, 02:20 PM
Peter -
IIt is kind of you to answer this Q:
What is the result of disobeying/refusing the messengers of God?

Now your answer is not a decision you make against people. yes?

SOA -

Rather than engage in a dance of words, why not simply make whatever point you are trying to make?

B'shalom,

Peter

AngelicOrin
17-01-2012, 09:11 PM
This verse is very true. We will be judged on what we were given, not by what we were not given. And we shall surely be judged by our deeds. It is God that reveals all things in this world. The Jews will be judged by the Torah, the Christians will be judged by the Gospel and the Muslims will be judged by the Qur'an. These three faiths are all brothers in God. God married the Jews to the Torah, but does not reveal the Gospel and the Qur'an to the Jews. God married the Gospel to the Christians and the Christians will be judged by what they do for or against the Gospel. The Christians will not be judged by the Qur'an because God does not reveal it to them. They are cut off from it. And God married the Muslims to the Qur'an and by the Qur'an shall the Muslims be judged.

God gave all of nature to know Him by and many other prophets to those outside the Abrahamic faiths. God seals His faith in every persons hand. We believe or we do not believe.

mj

Beautifully said, Matthew.

sbjazzman
21-03-2012, 03:48 PM
The Jews are not person centric. They are Torah centric. Everything starts and ends with the Torah which is revered above all things. This is why the Koran calls the Jews the "People of the Book".

mistogan
27-03-2012, 04:28 PM
hello everybody,

Maybe the question was asked before, but I can't search the whole forum for that, so... :rolleyes:

I was wondering why muslims can eat halal and kacher, whereas Jews eat only kacher ?
As the animal is sacrified for one single God, why is there a difference between halal and kacher ?

advance thanks for your answer,

bye bye

RabbiO
27-03-2012, 06:47 PM
hello everybody,

Maybe the question was asked before, but I can't search the whole forum for that, so... :rolleyes:

I was wondering why muslims can eat halal and kacher, whereas Jews eat only kacher ?
As the animal is sacrified for one single God, why is there a difference between halal and kacher ?

advance thanks for your answer,

bye bye


Your comment that "the animal is sacrified for one single G-d" makes no real sense since meat for eating is not an animal sacrifice. We Jews have been out of the animal sacrifice business for a very, very long time.

Jews and Muslims have different holy scriptures - and a number of rules are different. Muslims believe that Jewish scripture has been corrupted, Jews do not accept the Qu'ran as scripture.

Your comment that Muslims can partake of hala and kosher is not quite accurate. First of all there are restrictions on Muslims regarding products that are kosher. I have seen, for example, Muslim authorities who forbid the eating of kosher meat because the animal has not been slaughtered in the name of Allah.

B'shalom,

Peter

Present
30-03-2012, 01:01 AM
Matthew James,

Perhaps these statements do not hold water, so to speak. Perhaps you have been led to believe these things without ever questioning whether or not it is true.

Mathew James
30-03-2012, 04:00 PM
Matthew James,

Perhaps these statements do not hold water, so to speak. Perhaps you have been led to believe these things without ever questioning whether or not it is true.

not following which statements you mean.

mj