PROOF that GOD exists

[WiseMaster]

remember how satan made an inverse universe? :icon_eek:

well lets just take this e=mc^2 :hug3:

and make an inverse :D

THE TRUTH IS :angel1:

E^-1 = m^-1 times c^-1

basically they are all inverse and dependent on each other

GOD has infinity of E m and c
SATAN has negative infinity of Emc

About ME
Cameron Jason Sack
Born on the 8th of May 1992

Making a book called: REALITY

will be out soonish

will keep you posted guys

EDIT: i came up with this equation about 2-3 weeks ago... but have been locked up in a mental hospital :*(

[psychoslice]

Forget about the equation, and just relax and be who you are, that's the only proof you will ever need.

[WiseMaster]

Forget about the equation, and just relax and be who you are, that's the only proof you will ever need.

yea but just for all the skeptics and those edit "scientists"

THIS PROVES GOD IS REAL, and also explains dark matter, spirits, karma, etc etc the big bang everything the string theory all in one simple equation. and the best thing is you can NEVER get an exact number from the equation. there is no answer to the universe. period.

corrrection: the meaning of life is LOVE

[psychoslice]

yea but just for all the skeptics and those god damn "scientists"

THIS PROVES GOD IS REAL, and also explains dark matter, spirits, karma, etc etc the big bang everything the string theory all in one simple equation. and the best thing is you can NEVER get an exact number from the equation. there is no answer to the universe. period.

corrrection: the meaning of life is LOVE
Who cares about dark matter and all the rest, that proves nothing, forget about god, why do you need to prove god, its just a concept, concepts prove nothing, the only proof is that you are here, enjoy!, don't wast time with all that.

[Gem]

remember how satan made an inverse universe? :icon_eek:

well lets just take this e=mc^2 :hug3:

and make an inverse :D

THE TRUTH IS :angel1:

E^-1 = m^-1 times c^-1

basically they are all inverse and dependent on each other

GOD has infinity of E m and c
SATAN has negative infinity of Emc

About ME
Cameron Jason Sack
Born on the 8th of May 1992

Making a book called: REALITY

will be out soonish

will keep you posted guys

EDIT: i came up with this equation about 2-3 weeks ago... but have been locked up in a mental hospital :*(

your formula is incorrect.

[Sarian]

Lol, gem.

wisemaster. I hope you get well soon. You are only a few weeks older than my youngest son. I'm thinking of you and wishing you all the best. Listen to psychoslice.

[ravenstar]

Dr. F. Kirtley Mather of Harvard University is quoted as saying...
"That there is an administration of the Universe cannot be denied. Something has determined and continues to determine the functioning of natural law, the orderly transformation of matter and of energy. It may be the 'curvature of the cosmos', or 'blind chance', or 'universal energy', or 'an absentee Jehovah', or an 'all-pervading Spirit', but it must be something. From one point of view, the question: Is there a God? is promptly answered in the affirmative."

[Occultist]

This explains nothing it is based on scientific theory not concrete evidence.

[WiseMaster]

well i can believe in whatever i want to belieive in :)

[Gem]

well i can believe in whatever i want to belieive in :)

If only that were true.

[Sarian]

well i can believe in whatever i want to belieive in :)
What are you believing in today?

[Occultist]

Yes you can but that is what Faith is based on believing and knowing something that cannot be proven I have great respect for those who have faith. I am just pointing out this is not proof based on scientific fact and evidence but Theory is all. There is nothing wrong with me pointing that out correct?

[Raymond]

Ahem!!
I would just like to point out She is actually a Goddess

If we accept that there exists a benevolent being or power that guides or influences our lives and by whom all things were made, the great spirits of the stars, men in their time and place, the giants which were of old, and the dwarfs who dwell in the rocks and once a month worship her with cakes.
Then;

It would of course be feminine in a lateral and wider sense as females normally are the birth givers and creators and it is a simple analogy in every day terms

She would obviously be Devine by definition
She would obviously be Infinite
She would not be of this earth but an Astral Force
She would be Necromantic controlling life, death and rebirth
She would also be the Architect of all things

So we have a {female}
Devine, Infinite, Astral, Necromantic, Architect

Bless, Raymond :smile:

[ravenstar]

Yes you can but that is what Faith is based on believing and knowing something that cannot be proven I have great respect for those who have faith. I am just pointing out this is not proof based on scientific fact and evidence but Theory is all. There is nothing wrong with me pointing that out correct?

Sounds good in my books :smile:

[Chalk1990]

There will never be Proof of God, he does not want the one major mystery of life to be solved in a heart beat. We live to seek oneness with God, no matter how anyone perceives this. If God opened up the sky and yelled "I AM God, and I AM Real", we wouldn't have any reason to continue living this life, we would know the greatest mystery there ever was, everything we set out to do would have no deeper meaning. We all live through faith, we do acts of goodness thinking we may be rewarded in time for our good deeds, but some of us do acts of evil because we think no one is watching, and are concrete with that belief.

If we all knew God was real, without a doubt, we wouldn't need to pursue anything, because there would be no reason to, no reward. Your mere existance would be useless. Without Proof of God, there is an eternal sense of new beginnings, there will always be something more to do, so you can feel closer to God, but God may always hold us back so we will continue to believe in him, we will continue to have faith, and seek more love. If God gave us all the love possible, we would have nothing more to gain.

[kla2]

Proof of God, in the theological sense, is of course a misnomer, a philosophical contrivance to avoid accepting our ignorance of such a reality. As a humanity, we have all been conditioned or indoctrinated, for all of history by 'theological' exegesis, particularly by those with their own religious claims and agendas, to accept that a literal proof of God is not possible for faith. And thus all discussion of morality and apologists 'theodicy' is contained within this self limiting intellectual paradigm and bubble of presumption, especially evident in the frictions between science and religion. It would now appear that all sides squabbling over the God question, religious, atheist and history itself have it wrong! That bubble could now burst at any time!

The first wholly new interpretation for two thousand years of the moral teachings of Christ is published on the web. Radically different from anything else we know of from history, this new teaching is predicated upon a precise and predefined experience and called 'the first Resurrection'. A direct individual intervention into the natural world by omnipotent power to confirm divine will, command and covenant, "correcting human nature by a change in natural law, altering biology, consciousness and human ethical perception beyond all natural evolutionary boundaries." So like it or no, a new religious claim testable by faith, meeting all Enlightenment criteria of evidence based causation and definitive proof now exists. Nothing short of a religious revolution is getting under way.

[vulkus]

Ahem!!
I would just like to point out She is actually a Goddess

If we accept that there exists a benevolent being or power that guides or influences our lives and by whom all things were made, the great spirits of the stars, men in their time and place, the giants which were of old, and the dwarfs who dwell in the rocks and once a month worship her with cakes.
Then;

It would of course be feminine in a lateral and wider sense as females normally are the birth givers and creators and it is a simple analogy in every day terms

She would obviously be Devine by definition
She would obviously be Infinite
She would not be of this earth but an Astral Force
She would be Necromantic controlling life, death and rebirth
She would also be the Architect of all things

So we have a {female}
Devine, Infinite, Astral, Necromantic, Architect

Bless, Raymond :smile:
Ahem, and to use someone else's answer you are actually wrong.
The word you are looking for is androgynous, the creator entity if such a thing exists. Is neither male nor female, but androgynous.

[Raymond]

Thank you vulkus for reading my post and taking the trouble to quote and reply

I am always prepared for folk to say I am wrong

I am sure an androgynous could present itself however it wished ~ and should it wished to be beleived ~ in a form compatible with its followers ideal

You use the words "if such a thing exists" I have stated clearly what I beleive may I enquire the same of you

Bless, Raymond :smile:

[WiseMaster]

sorry my equation is wrong. i wasnt well when i wrote this up. ive now altered the equation

E = Momentum ^-1 times Wavelength^-1 times Weight ^-1

the string thoery which can never be proven or unproven as you cannot get an answer for Energy.

All of them are connected through Mass, Velocity and Force/Frequency

Momentum = Mass times Velocity
Velocity = Wavelength times Force/Frequency
Weight = Gravity (in the form of Force/Frequency) times Mass

The String Theory
Combines Gravity, Radiation, Mass and Velocity

Energy also equals momentum divided by velocity divided by weight divided by momentum ... and so on for infinity.

There is NO answer to the universe. Period.
The meaning of life is to Love and be Loved.

thanks :)

[athribiristan]

This explains nothing it is based on scientific theory not concrete evidence.

It all comes down to definition. In the realm of cause and effect there must exist a cause which preceeds all others. The ultimate cause from which all effects arise. Call it the big bang or call it God or call it something else. Whatever you call it, its existence is undeniable. We are here, therefore SOME force caused us to be here. God (to use one of many possible terms) = True.

[MOONPUPET]

god is a personal favorite of mine, if you see him tell him i called..:icon_eek:

[UniverseofLove]

There will never be Proof of God, he does not want the one major mystery of life to be solved in a heart beat. We live to seek oneness with God, no matter how anyone perceives this. If God opened up the sky and yelled "I AM God, and I AM Real", we wouldn't have any reason to continue living this life, we would know the greatest mystery there ever was, everything we set out to do would have no deeper meaning. We all live through faith, we do acts of goodness thinking we may be rewarded in time for our good deeds, but some of us do acts of evil because we think no one is watching, and are concrete with that belief.

If we all knew God was real, without a doubt, we wouldn't need to pursue anything, because there would be no reason to, no reward. Your mere existance would be useless. Without Proof of God, there is an eternal sense of new beginnings, there will always be something more to do, so you can feel closer to God, but God may always hold us back so we will continue to believe in him, we will continue to have faith, and seek more love. If God gave us all the love possible, we would have nothing more to gain.

I like your point, but I respectfully disagree. :smile: I have complete faith in Source/All That Is/God/Allah/Whatever, but I don't believe for a second that knowing God exists for a fact would make our lives worthless and take away our reason for living. Just because we would know that the Divine is with us, wouldn't mean that our lessons prevent us from learning.
Assuming that everything is ultimately love, including our experiences, then you might have a point about nothing more to gain from God giving us all the love possible, but I believe that unconditional love is what we already have and whether we know it is there or not, there are still valuable lessons to be learnt here on Earth.
I also believe in the Ancient Atlantians and Lemurians and, as far as I know, they were aware of Source's existence but still had a purpose on Earth, and they were on a higher plain than us.

As a general response to this thread - if you do have a formula that go towards evidence of Divine existence then good for you! I agree that what you've presented is scientific theory, not fact, but I also think that you could get it out there. Make people think. I appreciate psychoslice's advice, but I believe in the existence of a Higher Power, and I think it's worth exploring. Just hang on to your faith throughout :smile: Open-minded faith is, possibly, the best form of faith. :D

Love and Light

[periwinkle]

no matter how logical we are- even those who normally require ''proof'' before believing in concepts- we all have our own beliefs...& sometimes we do ''just believe'' certain things...to believe in something without demanding proof is what makes it ''faith''...even those who are 'logical' in day to day life can need ''faith'' at times ...!!!!!!! x

[psychoslice]

No matter how much faith you have, it doesn't make something true.

[TruthJunkie]

"GOD" is one of the most "overloaded" words in the English language. An overload occurs when one or more meanings are assigned because no clear definition exists. In fact humanity cannot adequately define god due to the limitations of the human experience.

[TruthJunkie]

No matter how much faith you have, it doesn't make something true.

Likewise there is no real guarantee that what appears to be true is true. The entirety of human experience is based on approximations in reality. We can never fully understand reality due to the limitations of the human condition.

[Mayflow]

Total nonsense.

[psychoslice]

Likewise there is no real guarantee that what appears to be true is true. The entirety of human experience is based on approximations in reality. We can never fully understand reality due to the limitations of the human condition.
Yep and I agree, but still, that doesn't mean something is true just because we believe it to be true.

[TruthJunkie]

Yep and I agree, but still, that doesn't mean something is true just because we believe it to be true.

Reference is a vital component to all validation processes.

I have 3 houses that are continually playing out: the founded knowledge of experience by reference, an agnostic placeholder for in transition experience and understanding, and a blank slate for that which has yet to unfold. I have very few beliefs because once an experience produces knowledge belief is no longer pertinent. In transition areas I hold an agnostic stance because my own personal experience no longer affords to shut down data streams because they may bypass reason and logic or the many other intellectual caveats created to divide and conquer reality. In other words "what'cha got?". It takes very little dialog to pierce poorly conceived or false belief systems but real experience is a different banana entirely. An experienced soul cannot be shaken in the same way. I have met people with truly outrageous anecdotes that I accept as truth in their reality. Conviction, embarrassment, and the need to protect themselves from shaming are all indicators this person most likely had a genuine experience. If and when we get to the finer details we can take a look at validating their experience.

[hybrid]

Reference is a vital component to all validation processes.

I have 3 houses that are continually playing out: the founded knowledge of experience by reference, an agnostic placeholder for in transition experience and understanding, and a blank slate for that which has yet to unfold. I have very few beliefs because once an experience produces knowledge belief is no longer pertinent. In transition areas I hold an agnostic stance because my own personal experience no longer affords to shut down data streams because they may bypass reason and logic or the many other intellectual caveats created to divide and conquer reality. In other words "what'cha got?". It takes very little dialog to pierce poorly conceived or false belief systems but real experience is a different banana entirely. An experienced soul cannot be shaken in the same way. I have met people with truly outrageous anecdotes that I accept as truth in their reality. Conviction, embarrassment, and the need to protect themselves from shaming are all indicators this person most likely had a genuine experience. If and when we get to the finer details we can take a look at validating their experience.

Imo, to an experienced soul. Evertything is just experience. There is no such thing as real or false experience only experience that correlates.

[psychoslice]

Yes I agree with TruthJunkie, we can only experience something, even when one experiences so called Enlightenment, that is all it is an experience, the experience isn't what IS, its secondary, and that really goes for everything else that we experience, so we really cannot say something is false or true, because again it will always be secondary to that which IS.

[Tobi]

I came to this thread because I saw "Proof that God exists"
Wow, I thought, that's going to be SO groundbreaking!
Now, though I appreciate the equations, I cant do the maths.....blahhhh!
Trust God to make it mathematical.
I may have dyscalculia (?) :sad11:

[Time]

Question against gods existance:

Can god create a burrito so hot that he himself cannot eat it?

[amy green]

Question against gods existance:

Can god create a burrito so hot that he himself cannot eat it?
He/she could, but only wishes to partake of manna! However, there exists the moruga scorpion chilli! :icon_eek: Case closed.
Therefore there IS a God!!! :smile:

So, to prove the existence of God it has to be a mathematical formula? Nothing else will suffice? What say if the whole earth suddenly had a major sign? (Anyway Douglas Adams told us the answer: 42!) :tongue:

[Time]

LOL amy..... The question is from the simpsons, and is actually a good point. Just because god "could" doesnt mean it "would", yet that contradicts many points about him in the bible.... the bible itself does a good job of this as well

[TruthJunkie]

Imo, to an experienced soul. Evertything is just experience. There is no such thing as real or false experience only experience that correlates.

Isn't that lovely? ^^^ :)

[Sammy]

Psychoslice I know you are concerned for wisemaster, but sometimes knowing is what our mind wants. As Ive mentioned for me, I had to have something I could prove to others before my mind would accept it as even possible.

Gem, if you say something is wrong atleast include the reason as to why. Belief is a perspective from the individual, not a perspective toward the individual.

Wisemaster, I know your path as Ive walked it as well. Luckily I did avoid the loony bin, but my wife was perty well convinced I should of gone HAHA. My hope is that you find the light your mind is looking for.

For those who havnt tried to come up with a theory to purpose the world:

Most of the times in theories like this, the goal of it is to end the struggle of humanity. To make life as respected from one side as it is the other. However this will have to appeal to people, who might not even know what a theory is let alone the background in theories to get to that point. Ive explained things to people who right to my face told me, "I cant think about that" (nor did they try). Ive done it in a way anyone can understand, but it leaves very little for standing a public ground with. Unfortunately some people wont even persue a thought unless its been proven by science.

[psychoslice]

Hi Sammy, it really doesn't matter what your mind thinks, you can think that there is a god, but that doesn't make it so. Even if there was a god, then who's god is it, and who's concept of god is it also, see this is what the mind wants, a concept.

[Sammy]

Hi :)

The topic at hand was beliefs. When it comes to beliefs it all has to do with what the mind wants. The mind has to "believe" it.

You are correct that thinking something doesn't make it so, but when so many now and throughout history think it is so. It makes you wonder.

[psychoslice]

Hi :)

The topic at hand was beliefs. When it comes to beliefs it all has to do with what the mind wants. The mind has to "believe" it.

You are correct that thinking something doesn't make it so, but when so many now and throughout history think it is so. It makes you wonder.
It may make you wonder, but still it may not be so, usually the majority has always been wrong.

[immortal coil]

I think, therefore I am.

[psychoslice]

I think, therefore I am.
Actually that should be the other way around, "I Am, therefore I think".

[immortal coil]

Actually that should be the other way around, "I Am, therefore I think".

Either way, it's self referential. Meaning something from nothing.

[psychoslice]

Either way, it's self referential. Meaning something from nothing.
So how did something come from nothing, and what is this nothing ?.

[hybrid]

So how did something come from nothing, and what is this nothing ?.
Space. Totally invisible, completely present

[Time]

I think, therefore I am.


Plants cant "think" like we do, yet im pretty sure they fit the "am".....

[immortal coil]

Plants cant "think" like we do, yet im pretty sure they fit the "am".....

Another way to look at it, the plant doesn't question its "I AM" state. But I think you're limiting your scope a bit, my friend. You are clearly thinking and on the right track though. Perhaps if you look at it as a complete state of "being" were everything is everything. Then you see that you are the plant, the idea of the plant, and the thought of the plant (not in the literal sense, as previously mentioned).

Since I tend to be above people's heads sometimes, I'll further illustrate with the idea of something coming from nothing. One of my own quotes: "You can't get something from nothing, because you still have to account for the idea of "nothing"". The thing is, something clearly came from nothing, so where do we go from there? As I discussed with Psychoslice earlier in the thread, it's a infinite, self-referential loop. Pretty difficult stuff to wrap your head around.

[psychoslice]

Space. Totally invisible, completely present
Well there you are, its not nothing.

[.the-i.d.o-man-that's-me]

Hi Sammy, it really doesn't matter what your mind thinks, you can think that there is a god, but that doesn't make it so. Even if there was a god, then who's god is it, and who's concept of god is it also, see this is what the mind wants, a concept.

I know for " fact " that spirit's are real ( through personal experience ) however I would find it really difficult to prove, as they dont really listen to me if I try to command them to approach other's and/or prove themselve's to other's.

Givin my experience, I would'nt for a second doubt that there is a god and/or someone else has had that experience however, I've not personally experienced god, only spirit's.

But having being a non believer once upon a time and also being a true sceptic at that time and now experiencing thing's that I used to think was non exsistant, I would'nt be so quick to mock other's experience's these day's.

I understand thing's that are very difficult to claim truth to.

[psychoslice]

I know for " fact " that spirit's are real ( through personal experience ) however I would find it really difficult to prove, as they dont really listen to me if I try to command them to approach other's and/or prove themselve's to other's.

Givin my experience, I would'nt for a second doubt that there is a god and/or someone else has had that experience however, I've not personally experienced god, only spirit's.

But having being a non believer once upon a time and also being a true sceptic at that time and now experiencing thing's that I used to think was non exsistant, I would'nt be so quick to mock other's experience's these day's.

I understand thing's that are very difficult to claim truth to.
You might imagine these things as being real, I've been there also, but when it comes to common sense, they sort of disappear, it has never been proven and it never will.

[hybrid]

Well there you are, its not nothing.
Semantics.:tongue:

[Tea Break]

What proof is there that God exists?

Us! :D - We're here, and talking about it, to prove that very thing.


Angel Blessings to All :angel7:

[psychoslice]

Oh Tea Break, He He, that doesn't prove nothing lol.

[Emmalevine]

You might imagine these things as being real, I've been there also, but when it comes to common sense, they sort of disappear, it has never been proven and it never will.

There is individual proof, and that's all the proof a person may need.

[psychoslice]

There is individual proof, and that's all the proof a person may need.
Proof is proof, what you believe isn't proof, its only what you believe.

[Time]

The odds are "god" (Im using the proper context here. I am refering to the christian god, not "god" as in a general creator diety) as it is shown in the bible does not exist. There are too many contradictions, too many double standards, and way too many discrepancies between what is said to be "true" in the bible, and what science or even common sense is saying....

That doesnt mean that there MAY be some sort of creative force or something at the beginning. We cant fuly discount something we cannot comprehend. But we can say with almost full confidence that the diety known as "god" as it is shown in the bible doesnt exist. Every religion claimed (to a point) that theres is the right way, and their dieties are the "right ones"... What would make christianity ANY different?

[TruthJunkie]

God has been associated with voices, visions, prophecy, schizophrenia, psychosis, etc. This "god" is quite often based on real spiritual phenomenal contact. I asked my aunt about the voices. She said she had 1 very clear experience in the garage of a man telling her not to go. She didn't. She asked herself if she was receiving god's word. I then asked her about her prayers and it turns out she experiences spiritual contact in her prayers; i.e. an internal dialog with another entity. When I read that someone states that they experience god personally this is quite often how. The experience is very real however the definition of "god" is still abstract in the sense that spiritual contact takes place with one or more entities; none of which are "god" any more than you or I and depending ultimately on the definition of "god".

[hybrid]

If god is defined as an intelligent supreme being , there may be evidence to support claims that god may exist. But never a proof to remove all doubts. I feel that what is referred to as god thru out the ages is nothing but consciousness. A universal consciousness that is the source of everything.

The difficulty of proving that i am conscious is that it is self evident to me. But with regards to others whether they are conscious or not, i have no direct experience of them being conscious so i can only surmise that they do experience being conscious just like me. Iow, proof is easy if we are dealing with it objectively. But if god is a subject how can you objectify it?

From time to time, this cosmic consciousness manifests itself thru humans. Its presence disorient the day to day human consciousness that perception of time disappear thus perceived it as timeless or eternal and infinite and its presence is so overwelming it is seen as all powerful. Iow, we got a taste of its nature making us children of god. And since inteligence and oneness of things are inherent part of its nature. . . It has enough intelligence to predict some sort of synchronicity of events, to say the least of what it is capable of.

[.the-i.d.o-man-that's-me]

You might imagine these things as being real, I've been there also, but when it comes to common sense, they sort of disappear, it has never been proven and it never will.

Oh what I've experienced is far from " imagination " they are " most definitely real ", but you would'nt know because you have'nt had the experience yourself.

Like I said before, I was once a " sceptic " ( rather like yourself ) till I got hit with a factual experience which I could'nt deny.

So, in saying that, until you've actually had an experince with spirit's ( god, ghost, angel's etc ) you'll never know any better and it's more than likely that you'll remain ignorant until the day " that you do " ( if that ever even transpires, it may not, who's to say? ) as was the case with myself.

And, sure you could say ( " Yeah, I've been there before " ) but if you had been " where I've been before " and experienced what I've experienced, we would most definitely see eye to eye however, that aint the case so, I dont think you really have been there before.

And it definitely aint something that so called common sense can quickly and easily deny/reject or change because the experience of spirit\s etc etc are'nt " common " at all, they are few and far between.

Even science has a hard time proving the exsistance of spirit's etc because spirit's dont have physical form's to prod and probe like the usual thing's we are used to encountering in our daily live's have and like I said, those whom experience spirit's etc are few and far between ( it aint as easy as popping down to your local store to buy the latest fashion trend/gimmick etc, cause the experience isnt readily available ) so, I can only hope that one of those people will be ( one day ) a scientist ( and a damn good one at that ) cause they are really hard to prove ( doenst mean they dont exist however ).

[.the-i.d.o-man-that's-me]

I was literally forced into acceptance of their existance, there was absolutely nothing I could do to prevent it, absolutely nothing.

And that's comming from someone that used to be an absolute everyday " naysayer ".

You'll never know until you've actually been there n done that.

That's about all I can say about that, it doesnt matter whether there's a lack of concrete/factual evidence or not, if spirit's booked a certain date on your calender to enter your life, you'll know it when it hit's you just how real the spiritual world is.

But it aint an experience that's as easy as apple pie to share..lol

[psychoslice]

Oh what I've experienced is far from " imagination " they are " most definitely real ", but you would'nt know because you have'nt had the experience yourself.

Like I said before, I was once a " sceptic " ( rather like yourself ) till I got hit with a factual experience which I could'nt deny.

So, in saying that, until you've actually had an experince with spirit's ( god, ghost, angel's etc ) you'll never know any better and it's more than likely that you'll remain ignorant until the day " that you do " ( if that ever even transpires, it may not, who's to say? ) as was the case with myself.

And, sure you could say ( " Yeah, I've been there before " ) but if you had been " where I've been before " and experienced what I've experienced, we would most definitely see eye to eye however, that aint the case so, I dont think you really have been there before.

And it definitely aint something that so called common sense can quickly and easily deny/reject or change because the experience of spirit\s etc etc are'nt " common " at all, they are few and far between.

Even science has a hard time proving the exsistance of spirit's etc because spirit's dont have physical form's to prod and probe like the usual thing's we are used to encountering in our daily live's have and like I said, those whom experience spirit's etc are few and far between ( it aint as easy as popping down to your local store to buy the latest fashion trend/gimmick etc, cause the experience isnt readily available ) so, I can only hope that one of those people will be ( one day ) a scientist ( and a damn good one at that ) cause they are really hard to prove ( doenst mean they dont exist however ).
I myself have experienced Enlightenment, where I disappeared into Consciousness, I have even written a book about it, but to say that it is true and that I believe in it, i cannot say, it was my own experience, as the mind body I cannot say what that experience was, for it is beyond the mind. So I will never argue about what I did experience, but I will point you to that which I experienced, its then up to you to experience it or not, but you can never believe in it because you have only experienced it through the mind.

[Sammy]

I myself have experienced Enlightenment, where I disappeared into Consciousness, I have even written a book about it, but to say that it is true and that I believe in it, i cannot say, it was my own experience, as the mind body I cannot say what that experience was, for it is beyond the mind. So I will never argue about what I did experience, but I will point you to that which I experienced, its then up to you to experience it or not, but you can never believe in it because you have only experienced it through the mind.

Dude you never cease to amaze me HAHA! :D

[TruthJunkie]

I myself have experienced Enlightenment, where I disappeared into Consciousness, I have even written a book about it, but to say that it is true and that I believe in it, i cannot say, it was my own experience, as the mind body I cannot say what that experience was, for it is beyond the mind. So I will never argue about what I did experience, but I will point you to that which I experienced, its then up to you to experience it or not, but you can never believe in it because you have only experienced it through the mind.

The mind is not a total loss in terms of evaluating experience. In fact we tend to evaluate our experiences through the mind as the only central point of consciousness in the body. But the mind is the not the molecular cosmos of energy and matter found throughout the universe it is a half way house for beings taking animate life forms here on earth; the result of a direct interface between consciousness and physicality.

If at some point humanity decided that the mind was a resource not to be trusted we would no longer be attached to much at all. And in some circles this is a most desirable state. However there are some who require the means to share, dialog, and communicate experience in hope that it will help alleviate the suffering of others. Thus we are left to develop a language of meaning to relate our subjective experience.

[psychoslice]

The mind is not a total loss in terms of evaluating experience. In fact we tend to evaluate our experiences through the mind as the only central point of consciousness in the body. But the mind is the not the molecular cosmos of energy and matter found throughout the universe it is a half way house for beings taking animate life forms here on earth; the result of a direct interface between consciousness and physicality.

If at some point humanity decided that the mind was a resource not to be trusted we would no longer be attached to much at all. And in some circles this is a most desirable state. However there are some who require the means to share, dialog, and communicate experience in hope that it will help alleviate the suffering of others. Thus we are left to develop a language of meaning to relate our subjective experience.
Yes and that is my point also, but still, the mind can only take us so fare, so we should never get too involved with anything from the mind, use it as a tool, enjoy what it can do and except what it cannot do.

[spiritualseeker13]

I believe that "God exist". But he is not above us or living in heaven or ruling us or doer of anything happening in this world.

But he is living in every living creature, giving light to them, to progress further.

"God is in every creature, whether visible or invisible. God is in creature, not in creation." ~ By enlightened one Param Pujya Dada Bhagwan.

[hybrid]

I believe that "God exist". But he is not above us or living in heaven or ruling us or doer of anything happening in this world.

But he is living in every living creature, giving light to them, to progress further.

"God is in every creature, whether visible or invisible. God is in creature, not in creation." ~ By enlightened one Param Pujya Dada Bhagwan.
where is your proof or the basis of your belief?

[TruthJunkie]

Yes and that is my point also, but still, the mind can only take us so fare, so we should never get too involved with anything from the mind, use it as a tool, enjoy what it can do and except what it cannot do.

The mind is like swimming in a bottomless lake where fish come and go yet rarely do we truly understand the nature of mind.

[psychoslice]

The mind is like swimming in a bottomless lake where fish come and go yet rarely do we truly understand the nature of mind.
Yes I like that, but yes the mind is only a tool, and that is all it should ever be.

[TruthJunkie]

Yes I like that, but yes the mind is only a tool, and that is all it should ever be.

The mind isn't really a tool it is a product of natural causation. Tools in general are human constructs but ... I get where you are with this :)

[hybrid]

The mind isn't really a tool it is a product of natural causation. Tools in general are human constructs but ... I get where you are with this :)
mind is also a human construct, strictly speaking becaUse it is just an abstraction of some naturAl causation.
in the same sense, god concept is also a humAn construct.
a mental representation of still some natural causation ;)

[spiritualseeker13]

where is your proof or the basis of your belief?

Spiritual Master Param Pujya Dadashri once had a talk with some scientists on the subject Where is god? and What does he do?....Read on to know what did he tell these scientists...

"These scientists asked me if all this meant that God did not exist. I told them that if God did not exist, there would be no experience of pleasure or pain for anyone in this world and therefore, God definitely exists. They asked me where God lives. I asked them where they thought he lived. They pointed towards the sky. I asked them where exactly was he to be found, what his precise address was and whether one could mail a letter to him. They did not know. I told them there is absolutely no one up there. Since everyone says that God lives up there (in the sky), I myself had gone there and checked (I have seen in my enlightened state that there is no one up there). I have looked for God there, but there is nobody up there, only the vast, open sky. Nobody lives up there. When they asked me for God's correct address, I told them to write this statement down, "God is in every creature whether, visible or invisible. Not in creation."

This record player is a manmade creation. God does not reside in any manmade things. God is present in all things that are naturally created. Therefore, God resides in every creature whether visible or invisible. There are infinite invisible creatures between you and me, which cannot be seen even under a microscope. God resides in all of them. Now what does God do? He only gives light to every living being. How you utilize that light is up to you. Whether you do good deeds like charity, or bad deeds like stealing, the responsibility is solely yours. Use this light for whatever purpose you want to."

I really agree with spiritual master Param Pujya Dadashri and his sayings.

[TruthJunkie]

Me thinks there is far more to the story ... much of which will escape humanity at this time.

[immortal coil]

Me thinks there is far more to the story ... much of which will escape humanity at this time.

I'm told it will be like the punchline to the best joke you've ever heard. That there will be humor, irony, and illumination.

[psychoslice]

There is no god, no heaven, no hell, no after life.......there is just here NOW, so enjoy.:blob3:

[hybrid]

"These scientists asked me if all this meant that God did not exist. I told them that if God did not exist, there would be no experience of pleasure or pain for anyone in this world and therefore, God definitely exists.

How did pleasure and pain become a proof of god?


They asked me where God lives. I asked them where they thought he lived. They pointed towards the sky. I asked them where exactly was he to be found, what his precise address was and whether one could mail a letter to him. They did not know. I told them there is absolutely no one up there. Since everyone says that God lives up there (in the sky), I myself had gone there and checked (I have seen in my enlightened state that there is no one up there). I have looked for God there, but there is nobody up there, only the vast, open sky. Nobody lives up there. When they asked me for God's correct address, I told them to write this statement down, "God is in every creature whether, visible or invisible. Not in creation."
That the testimony that god is everywhere is not proof. It is another preposition thst requires proof.

This record player is a manmade creation. God does not reside in any manmade things. God is present in all things that are naturally created. Therefore, God resides in every creature whether visible or invisible. There are infinite invisible creatures between you and me, which cannot be seen even under a microscope. God resides in all of them. Now what does God do? He only gives light to every living being. How you utilize that light is up to you. Whether you do good deeds like charity, or bad deeds like stealing, the responsibility is solely yours. Use this light for whatever purpose you want to."

I really agree with spiritual master Param Pujya Dadashri and his sayings.


Again they are nothing but conjectures. Circular reasoning and all sorts of false arguments. Sorry

[Sammy]

I'm told it will be like the punchline to the best joke you've ever heard. That there will be humor, irony, and illumination.

Ive also had many things leading to this conclusion. The one that still sticks out the most to me is, "when the Earth dies it will be in the form of laughter". Leading me to think its a thought or lifestyle that will die, bringing about a new way of life on Earth.

[Sammy]

In addition to this, the "anti-Christ" is supposed to be some big great evil to show himself on Earth. However that seems to be the life Jesus lead, full of struggle and pain, then ending in the worse result imaginable leaving us with the knowledge of some great evil. The opposite of all this is a life of ease, and happiness, then ending in the best possible way imaginable leaving us with the knowledge of some greater good.

[TruthJunkie]

Psychoslice on the spiritual lecture circuit ...

welcome ... get comfortable in your chair ... ready?

There is no god, no heaven, no hell, no after life.......there is just here NOW, so enjoy.:blob3:

thanks for coming ...

[TruthJunkie]

I'm told it will be like the punchline to the best joke you've ever heard. That there will be humor, irony, and illumination.

That's funny and no doubt accurate.

[psychoslice]

Psychoslice on the spiritual lecture circuit ...

welcome ... get comfortable in your chair ... ready?



thanks for coming ...
Don't forget the popcorn lol.:smile:

[TruthJunkie]

Don't forget the popcorn lol.:smile:

organic veggie burgers infused with sacred spiritual waters and heavenly aromatics
popcorn is for terminator II

[psychoslice]

organic veggie burgers infused with sacred spiritual waters and heavenly aromatics
popcorn is for terminator II
He He, yum yum, they all sound good to me, e molto buano. :smile:

[slaga]

Well there you are, its not nothing.

I think the idea here is that once you try to define nothing, it becomes something. But if something cannot be defined, does that mean it does not exist? I still feel like nothing does exist, although that may be a paradox because if nothing exists then it is something. What is existence anyway? Seems pretty tough to define as well.

[hybrid]

I think the idea here is that once you try to define nothing, it becomes something. But if something cannot be defined, does that mean it does not exist? I still feel like nothing does exist, although that may be a paradox because if nothing exists then it is something. What is existence anyway? Seems pretty tough to define as well.
Anything known is existence.

[slaga]

Everything known exists, but there could be things that are unknown that also exist.

[TruthJunkie]

Everything known exists, but there could be things that are unknown that also exist.

Zero is known but does what it represents exist? Infinity is known but does what it represent have bounds?

[hybrid]

Everything known exists, but there could be things that are unknown that also exist.
if it unknown how do you know it exist?
you must have known it one one or another.

[hybrid]

Zero is known but does what it represents exist? Infinity is known but does what it represent have bounds?
zero and infinity are conceived.
they are concepts.

[immortal coil]

Source placed a precept on itself in which it would discover every possibility within itself. This thread is a condition of that i.e. "the longing for knowledge".

In its most true form, there is no form, as every experience has been assimilated back into itself.

Honestly, it's difficult to get around the vocabulary, because there aren't words for such things.

[psychoslice]

I think the idea here is that once you try to define nothing, it becomes something. But if something cannot be defined, does that mean it does not exist? I still feel like nothing does exist, although that may be a paradox because if nothing exists then it is something. What is existence anyway? Seems pretty tough to define as well.
Yep I wouldn't have a clue lol.

[hybrid]

Source placed a precept on itself in which it would discover every possibility within itself. This thread is a condition of that i.e. "the longing for knowledge".

In its most true form, there is no form, as every experience has been assimilated back into itself.

Honestly, it's difficult to get around the vocabulary, because there aren't words for such things.
I call it spirit

[immortal coil]

I call it spirit

The problem is, that if you define something, the rules that define it have to precede it. Or at least in our linear perception of time.

While we are on the topic of labels, spirit (<- see, I use it too! :D ) once told me that the closest possible representation of creation/god/source, is the mathematical "empty set" or [ ] - the set that contains no elements.

[spiritualseeker13]

If God was the creator, then he would perpetually become our boss and there would be no such thing as liberation. But there is liberation. God is not the creator of this world. People who understand liberation will never accept God as a creator. Liberation and God as a 'creator' are two contradictory statements. 'Creator' is someone who does you a permanent favor and if God is such an entity, then you will always be indebted to him. As your creator, God will always be your boss and you will always be his subordinate. Even when you attain liberation he will be your superior, will he not?

<snip>

edited by SF Staff

[God-Like]

If God was the creator, then he would perpetually become our boss and there would be no such thing as liberation.

Hi spiritualseeker13

Doesn't this notion lean towards a separate God from what we are . Are the understandings of the http://www.dadabhagwan.org/scientifi...te-this-world/ about separation or oneness / sameness?

x daz x

[slaga]

Zero is known but does what it represents exist? Infinity is known but does what it represent have bounds?

Good points about zero and infinity. There is a difference between zero and nothingness – zero has mathematical properties, whereas nothingness has no properties. And the question still remains can we know nothingness? And whether we can or not does that say anything about its existence? I guess I am not sure now that everything known exists. And whether unknown things exist is a different matter. This is getting a bit esoteric, but even if we consider more tangible things, like what we see right in front of us, does that mean it exists? It would seem that it certainly must exist on some level, even if it is only in our mind. But perhaps there is really no ultimate proof. No proof in what we see, no proof in god, no proof in anything. But is this important? Do we need proof?

[hybrid]

The problem is, that if you define something, the rules that define it have to precede it. Or at least in our linear perception of time.

While we are on the topic of labels, spirit (<- see, I use it too! :D ) once told me that the closest possible representation of creation/god/source, is the mathematical "empty set" or [ ] - the set that contains no elements.
perhaps quantitavely.
Qualitative equivalent will be silence.

[Gem]

Good points about zero and infinity. There is a difference between zero and nothingness – zero has mathematical properties, whereas nothingness has no properties. And the question still remains can we know nothingness? And whether we can or not does that say anything about its existence? I guess I am not sure now that everything known exists. And whether unknown things exist is a different matter. This is getting a bit esoteric, but even if we consider more tangible things, like what we see right in front of us, does that mean it exists? It would seem that it certainly must exist on some level, even if it is only in our mind. But perhaps there is really no ultimate proof. No proof in what we see, no proof in god, no proof in anything. But is this important? Do we need proof?

The with with terms like exist is that it's a secondary quality which we attribute to what is. There can be no doubt that 'we see this in front of us' but in an attempt to justify it we apply an attribute 'it exists'... Of course 'we see it' but 'it exists' is an idea.

[immortal coil]

perhaps quantitavely.
Qualitative equivalent will be silence.

This is true, and it's the rules the I AM set up for itself.

[immortal coil]

If God was the creator, then he would perpetually become our boss and there would be no such thing as liberation. But there is liberation. God is not the creator of this world. People who understand liberation will never accept God as a creator. Liberation and God as a 'creator' are two contradictory statements. 'Creator' is someone who does you a permanent favor and if God is such an entity, then you will always be indebted to him. As your creator, God will always be your boss and you will always be his subordinate. Even when you attain liberation he will be your superior, will he not?


Can "god" not be creator, subordinate, oppressor, oppressed, master, slave, etc.?

Edit: I should mention, that the idea your are presenting here is the Gnostic "Demiurge". http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demiurge (http://www.spiritualforums.com/vb/redir.php?link=http%3A%2F%2Fen.wikipedia.org%2Fwik i%2FDemiurge)

[hybrid]

This is true, and it's the rules the I AM set up for itself.
What " I AM"?
Another label for spirit? Emptiness? Silence?
God?

[immortal coil]

What " I AM"?
Another label for spirit? Emptiness? Silence?
God?

You'll hear me call it many different things, since it can't be reduced into simple words/ideas.

Remind me again what we were taking about?:D

[hybrid]

You'll hear me call it many different things, since it can't be reduced into simple words/ideas.

Remind me again what we were taking about?:D
i guess nothing in particular.
We probably are deconstructing the concept of god and replaced it with something more experienciable

[Niebla0007]

Coming across the article below brought me back to this thread.

Have a look at the giant footprint at
https://remnantofgiants.wordpress.com/tag/michael-tellinger/

Is it a Fossilized Footprint of God
or is it just something man-made? or is it just another record of evolution?