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Mayflow
20-12-2011, 04:25 PM
'I am not, I will not be.
I have not, I will not have.
This frightens all children,
And kills fear in the wise.'
Nagarjuna


CONVENTIONAL AND ULTIMATE WISDOM:


"A human being is part of a whole, called by us the 'universe', a part limited in time and space.
He experiences himself, his thoughts and feelings, as something separate from the rest
- a kind of optical delusion of his consciousness.
This delusion is a kind of prison for us, restricting us to our personal desires and to affectation for a few people near us.
Our task must be to free ourselves from this prison by widening our circles of compassion
to embrace all living creatures and the whole of nature in its beauty."

"Reality is merely an illusion, albeit a very persistent one."

From Living Buddha, Living Christ by Thich Nhat Hanh:

"Enlightenment for a wave in the ocean is the moment the wave realises that it is water."
Wisdom in Buddhism can refer to two types of insight: conventional wisdom and ultimate wisdom:

Conventional wisdom relates to understanding the conventional world, or the world as we know it. Traditionally it refers to understanding the way in which karma functions; to understand which actions bring us happiness and which bring us suffering. Conventional wisdom covers all understanding of the world as it functions, including science, with the exception of ultimate wisdom.

Ultimate wisdom (jñana in Sanskrit) refers to a direct realisation which is non-dualistic, and contradicts the way in which we ordinarily perceive the world. The experience of ultimate truth or emptiness is beyond duality.

It is important to remember that emptiness here does not refer to nothingness or some kind of nihilistic view. Emptiness refers to the fact that ultimately, our day-to-day experience of reality is wrong, and is 'empty' of many qualities that we normally assign to it.

Describing this non-dual experience in words is not really possible, as language is based on duality and contrasts. Trying to explain this experience - which contradicts our normal perception - is a bit like explaining colours to someone who is born blind; difficult to say the least.

Humm
20-12-2011, 05:16 PM
Exactly.

Reality is not illusion - our conceptions of it are. Our experience of reality is not necessarily wrong - but it is made up of our conceptions.

Enlightenment is seeing beyond our conceptions - beyond the personal and human perspectives.

Spirituality is just another way of looking at the same universe.

Mayflow
20-12-2011, 05:49 PM
Exactly.

Reality is not illusion - our conceptions of it are. Our experience of reality is not necessarily wrong - but it is made up of our conceptions.

Enlightenment is seeing beyond our conceptions - beyond the personal and human perspectives.

Spirituality is just another way of looking at the same universe.

Precisely. To me, this is why we seem walkers of two worlds.

Humm
20-12-2011, 06:03 PM
Precisely. To me, this is why we seem walkers of two worlds.
Agreed - two consciousnesses, a bit more accurately, I think. They look like two different worlds because they look so different from the two perspectives - and it's ironic that egoically they look like two worlds, but spiritually they are one world. As above, so below.

Of course, trying to conceptualize the whole thing just makes me dizzy. :tongue:

Lisa
21-12-2011, 04:28 PM
[quote=Humm- Spirituality is just another way of looking at the same universe.[/quote]

And realizing it as who I am.

Humm
21-12-2011, 04:32 PM
And realizing it as who I am.

http://www.spiritualforums.com/vb/showpost.php?p=414341&postcount=240

:wink:

Lisa
21-12-2011, 04:35 PM
http://www.spiritualforums.com/vb/showpost.php?p=414341&postcount=240 (http://www.spiritualforums.com/vb/redir.php?link=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.spiritualforums.co m%2Fvb%2Fshowpost.php%3Fp%3D414341%26amp%3Bpostcou nt%3D240)

:wink:

Holy Cow- you're so fast! I couldn't understand why my name was not on the board. You'd already posted! lol

To the link- not the same thing. :tongue:

Humm
21-12-2011, 04:40 PM
Holy Cow- you're so fast! I couldn't understand why my name was not on the board. You'd already posted! lol
I'm psychic. :tongue:

To the link- not the same thing. :tongue:
It is different things to different people - and it equates to me, just stated in a rather minimalist way. :wink:

Lisa
21-12-2011, 05:27 PM
Humm-
It is different things to different people - and it equates to me, just stated in a rather minimalist way.


No cigar.

Not even close. :icon_cyclops_ani:

Neville
21-12-2011, 05:40 PM
I think we are a bit here and a lot everywhere else. Like this life is the small head of comet and a lot of what we are fans out joining everything else in the space behind us.

Humm
21-12-2011, 05:42 PM
deleted by Humm

Mayflow
21-12-2011, 10:27 PM
I think we are a bit here and a lot everywhere else. Like this life is the small head of comet and a lot of what we are fans out joining everything else in the space behind us.

Well, it is possible that we exist in many places in parallel Universes and that we have dark matter and dark energy existences as well.

Greybeard
26-12-2011, 06:53 PM
In every direction we turn our eyes, life is dilemma and paradox.

Our only opportunity for consciousness exists in this world. Whether there is more, something else, is speculative at best. Carpe diem.

We are animals, and must live within the constraints of our human nature. War, greed, cruelty, hunger, inequality... are all part of the "world" we live in, and will be with us for as long as we are human. Life requires us to make hard decisions as we meet it on a realistic and pragmatic basis. Where is the evil in that?

As far as I know, no other animal cries as we do; to be human is to shed tears. As far as I know, no other animal laughs as we do. This is a world of duality,

But then... "From the world of the senses, Arjuna, comes heat and comes cold, and pleasure and pain. They come and they go; they are transient. Arise above them, strong soul. The man whom these cannot move, whose soul is one, beyond pleasure and pain, is worthy of life in Eternity. The unreal never is; the Real never is not. This truth indeed has been seen by those who can see the true."

For myself, I love being a human animal. And I love being a conscious spirit. Isn't it nice having the power to stand squarely in the center, one foot in one world, one in the other?