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Mind's Eye
14-12-2011, 05:28 PM
Last summer I began to read up on Spiritualism. It seems to be one of the more popular religions of the time, so I wanted to give a look. To make a long story short, I read most of Allen Kardec's books and found them to be quite negative. Kardec seems to spout about the love of God often, yet repeadedly whacks us over the head on what a cruel mistress karma can be. His idea talks about the ultimate redemption of every soul, and he did have some thoughts that I agreed with. But it all just seemed so dark and tedious to me as he explained the reasons why some people die, and the lessons we must learn. I cannot see why anyone would be drawn to Kardec's philosophy... I am a very positive person, but everytime I read one of his books, I felt very heavy and even a little morbid. I did not like the energy I got from it at all.

Serenity Bear
14-12-2011, 05:33 PM
As far as I can remember Kardec was a Spiritist not a Spiritualist which is different.

I have two of his books and Iv tried to read them, but I found them to be from the point of view of a sceptic and not that interesting to me. Iv still got them as they are necessary reading in some areas but Im not sure I will make it through to the end.

Mind's Eye
14-12-2011, 06:33 PM
As far as I can remember Kardec was a Spiritist not a Spiritualist which is different.

I have two of his books and Iv tried to read them, but I found them to be from the point of view of a sceptic and not that interesting to me. Iv still got them as they are necessary reading in some areas but Im not sure I will make it through to the end.

How is spiritualism and spiritists different? Kardec refers to spiritualism also as spiritism.... Isn't it all part of the same school of thought? If not, how do they differ?

Enya
14-12-2011, 07:25 PM
From the great god Wiki...

"Although there are many similarities between the two, they differ in some fundamental aspects, particularly regarding man's quest toward spiritual perfection and the manner by which the followers of each practice their beliefs.

Spiritism teaches reincarnation or rebirth into human life after death. This basically distinguishes Spiritism from Spiritualism. According to the Spiritist doctrine, reincarnation explains the moral and intellectual differences among men. It also provides the path to man's moral and intellectual perfection by amending for his mistakes and increasing his knowledge in successive lives. For this reason Spiritism does not accept rebirth in animals as this would be retrogressive.

Finally, unlike Spiritualism, Spiritism is not a religious sect but a philosophy or a way of life by which its followers live by. Its followers have no priests or ministers and do not follow any religious rituals in their meetings. They also do not call their places of meetings as churches, and instead call them by various names such as centers, society or association. Their activities consist mainly of studying the Spiritist doctrine, applying spiritual healing to the sick and organizing charitable missions."

Very similar to Spiritualism I agree, but splitting off from the same tree, just as Christianity and Islam split from Judaism.

mac
15-12-2011, 10:21 AM
Last summer I began to read up on Spiritualism. It seems to be one of the more popular religions of the time, so I wanted to give a look. To make a long story short, I read most of Allen Kardec's books and found them to be quite negative. Kardec seems to spout about the love of God often, yet repeadedly whacks us over the head on what a cruel mistress karma can be. His idea talks about the ultimate redemption of every soul, and he did have some thoughts that I agreed with. But it all just seemed so dark and tedious to me as he explained the reasons why some people die, and the lessons we must learn. I cannot see why anyone would be drawn to Kardec's philosophy... I am a very positive person, but everytime I read one of his books, I felt very heavy and even a little morbid. I did not like the energy I got from it at all.
Kardec wrote about Spiritism (as others here have remarked) It's accurate to say there are similarities between that and 'Modern Spiritualism'. The language of that time, along with the nature of the communications, sounds very old-fashioned in this modern world - I studied 'The Spirits' Book' in depth before moving on to what more recent teachers have to say. Returning to reading it again recently I found it 'stiff' and prescriptive.

Spiritism is - I've been told - alive and well in South America but here in the UK Spiritualism is more popular. This is the 'Spiritualism' forum and Spiritism should not be confused with it.

As you began this piece by saying "Last summer I began to read up on Spiritualism." I think you got things chronologically correct. But I hope that after reading Kardec you moved on to the teachings now widely associated with Modern Spiritualism - Silver Birch and White Eagle for examples.

It would be wrong to conclude that Spiritualism reflects only the ideas found in the book compiled by Kardec.

mac
15-12-2011, 10:27 AM
As far as I can remember Kardec was a Spiritist not a Spiritualist which is different.

I have two of his books and Iv tried to read them, but I found them to be from the point of view of a sceptic and not that interesting to me. Iv still got them as they are necessary reading in some areas but Im not sure I will make it through to the end.

If you'll forgive my impertinence, why study something about which you're an admitted skeptic? At best you'll feel negative to what you find, at worst you'll have prejudices which constrain any understanding of what you read.

Is the "...necessary reading in some areas" to enable you to challenge what's said elsewhere? If so you may be misled by what you've been finding.


Better sources of information about the philosophy of Modern Spiritualism are readily available.... Using those will give you a much better chance of challenging what Spiritualism has to offer - good luck!

Left Behind
11-01-2012, 02:25 AM
I agree with Mac: it's difficult to glean anything from Spiritualism / Spiritism if you approach it from the perspective of a skeptic. You should at least try to be open-minded about the subject. Skepticism to me indicates that you're inclined from the start NOT to believe it.

So far as I've been able to learn - I'm new to Spiritualism myself - the biggest difference between Spiritualism and Spiritism is the latter's belief in reincarnation.

Jim

Left Behind
28-02-2012, 03:19 PM
I just last night finished reading Kardec's Book on Mediums. Though I regard myself as a Spiritualist rather than a Spiritist - to a large extent, because I DON'T belief in reincarnation - I must admit that Kardec is quite a profound thinker.

We also have to keep in mind that he goes way back to the earliest days of Modern Spiritualism / Spiritism (his earthly life span was circa 1805 - 1869, if I remember correctly).

Spiritualists, like everyone else, do or should learn more as time goes by. So he shouldn't be faulted unduly if someone finds his teachings a bit dated. He was a trailblazer: he isn't state of the art.

Jim

mac
28-02-2012, 06:04 PM
I just last night finished reading Kardec's Book on Mediums. Though I regard myself as a Spiritualist rather than a Spiritist - to a large extent, because I DON'T belief in reincarnation - I must admit that Kardec is quite a profound thinker.

We also have to keep in mind that he goes way back to the earliest days of Modern Spiritualism / Spiritism (his earthly life span was circa 1805 - 1869, if I remember correctly).

Spiritualists, like everyone else, do or should learn more as time goes by. So he shouldn't be faulted unduly if someone finds his teachings a bit dated. He was a trailblazer: he isn't state of the art.

Jim

great review, Jim - I agree with every observation about his trail-blazing. I've only read 'The Spirits' Book' but that was many years ago.

Left Behind
28-02-2012, 08:21 PM
great review, Jim - I agree with every observation about his trail-blazing. I've only read 'The Spirits' Book' but that was many years ago.

I haven't read that one, Mac, but I intend to. :smile:


Jim

Juanita
28-02-2012, 09:41 PM
Last summer I began to read up on Spiritualism. It seems to be one of the more popular religions of the time, so I wanted to give a look. To make a long story short, I read most of Allen Kardec's books and found them to be quite negative. Kardec seems to spout about the love of God often, yet repeadedly whacks us over the head on what a cruel mistress karma can be. His idea talks about the ultimate redemption of every soul, and he did have some thoughts that I agreed with. But it all just seemed so dark and tedious to me as he explained the reasons why some people die, and the lessons we must learn. I cannot see why anyone would be drawn to Kardec's philosophy... I am a very positive person, but everytime I read one of his books, I felt very heavy and even a little morbid. I did not like the energy I got from it at all.





ok, first of all---there is not "that" much of a difference between spiritulism and spiritism---they all believe in Spirit....Most spiritists are Christian, most spiritulists are not, altho some are.........

Allen Kardec, like most mediums or channelers, especially of that time, have interpreted their messages from Spirit through a filter of religious and cultural beliefs........also it is good to remember that any spirit can only speak from his own level and perception....meaning that if you ask 5 spirits the same question, you will probably get 5 different answers....... It is good to read all you can on spiritual matters, but learn to let go of those that do not resonate with you........

Left Behind
29-02-2012, 01:31 AM
Agreed, on all counts, Juanita! More Spiritualists are believing in or at least accepting the possibility of reincarnation than was the case in the past: so that difference is diminishing.

As you say, people - incarnate, or discarnate - see things, and say things, through their own cultural filter.

Jim

mac
29-02-2012, 02:00 AM
"also it is good to remember that any spirit can only speak from his own level and perception....meaning that if you ask 5 spirits the same question, you will probably get 5 different answers....... It is good to read all you can on spiritual matters, but learn to let go of those that do not resonate with you"

Undoubtedly this is the case but why ask 'spirits' when there is already a huge wealth of teachings from spirit teacher/guides who are generally acknowledged to be highly spiritually-evolved? These latter individuals are the ones best able to communicate the deeper aspects of etheric life.

Of course if you're only interested in the minutiae of discarnate life then there might be interesting accounts to be had from 'ordinary' spirits, the equivalent of 'ordinary' human beings. I do see some justification for listening to how day-to-day life goes on in the dimension(s) following this physical one, accounts given by those who observe/experience them.

mac
29-02-2012, 02:04 AM
I haven't read that one, Mac, but I intend to. :smile:


Jim

By all means give it a whirl, Jim, but when I fished my copy out of storage recently, I found the style amazingly dated and very hard to read. Probably similar to 'the Mediums' Book' I'd guess....

I downloaded an online version some time back but haven't ever felt the urge to read it - and reading from a computer screen doesn't appeal to me either.

I never recommend books and this is one I'd hesitate to even suggest other than as an example of how things have changed....

Left Behind
29-02-2012, 02:07 AM
That topic fascinates me, Mac!

Other than the Borgia / Benson books, can you think of any good ones about daily life in the spirit world?

Jim

Left Behind
29-02-2012, 02:11 AM
By all means give it a whirl, Jim, but when I fished my copy out of storage recently, I found the style amazingly dated and very hard to read. Probably similar to 'the Mediums' Book' I'd guess....

I downloaded an online version some time back but haven't ever felt the urge to read it - and reading from a computer screen doesn't appeal to me either.

I never recommend books and this is one I'd hesitate to even suggest other than as an example of how things have changed....

I was comfortable with the style in the Medium's Book: though some of the terms are confusing. I surmise that Kardec's speaking of someone in a deep trance state, when he uses the term "somnambulist": which to me, means nothing other than a sleep-walker. (?)

Also, I mentally substituted the word "possession" whenever he said "obsession".

Jim

mac
29-02-2012, 01:35 PM
That topic fascinates me, Mac!

Other than the Borgia / Benson books, can you think of any good ones about daily life in the spirit world?

Jim

Sorry, Jim, I can't help on that score. It's years since I had my books collection (all 'lent' out and not returned) and I can't remember what I used to have.


Changing tack, as you know I never recommend anything but one that I've found illuminating is 'Soul Trek' by Julie Gale.

Whereas Spiritualist books often focus on the so-called afterlife, Julie's book also looks at the forelife. I wrote to her (early 1998) to learn a little more and in her reply she told me she once worked on the old 'Psychic News' when Maurice Barbanell was editor. She said she was there when some of the Silver Birch recordings were being transcribed - wonderful days.

I won't recommend it but it's worth considering I'd say - my copy is falling apart as I've used it so much. It's the only one that accompanies me as I travel back and forth over the big pond.... :wink:

Left Behind
29-02-2012, 03:24 PM
Sounds like it's worth a look, then. :smile:

At this point, I'm more interest in what will happen next than in what happened previously. :D However, the forelife or prelife is indeed a sorely neglected topic. There's an article about same in the 11 February issue of Psychic News, which I haven't read yet.

Jim

mac
29-02-2012, 03:39 PM
Sounds like it's worth a look, then. :smile:

At this point, I'm more interest in what will happen next than in what happened previously. :D However, the forelife or prelife is indeed a sorely neglected topic. There's an article about same in the 11 February issue of Psychic News, which I haven't read yet.

Jim

Yes I believe the article is by Lis Warwood (Jim's wife) and I, too, have yet to read all the issues of PN and Two Worlds that arrived after we came out to Arizona in January. Always lots of periodicals for me to catch up with when we get home.


I've read reams of afterlife stuff with very little about what happens before we get here.

Left Behind
01-03-2012, 01:59 AM
Yes I believe the article is by Lis Warwood (Jim's wife) and I, too, have yet to read all the issues of PN and Two Worlds that arrived after we came out to Arizona in January. Always lots of periodicals for me to catch up with when we get home.


I've read reams of afterlife stuff with very little about what happens before we get here.

Yes, Lis W. is the author.

I'm finishing the fourth (new) issue of PN, and have that fifth issue (with Lis' article) here. And I received the March issue of Two Worlds in the mail today.

Jim

mac
01-03-2012, 02:37 AM
Yes, Lis W. is the author.

I'm finishing the fourth (new) issue of PN, and have that fifth issue (with Lis' article) here. And I received the March issue of Two Worlds in the mail today.

Jim

lucky devil! :hug3:

Juanita
01-03-2012, 06:23 PM
"also it is good to remember that any spirit can only speak from his own level and perception....meaning that if you ask 5 spirits the same question, you will probably get 5 different answers....... It is good to read all you can on spiritual matters, but learn to let go of those that do not resonate with you"

Undoubtedly this is the case but why ask 'spirits' when there is already a huge wealth of teachings from spirit teacher/guides who are generally acknowledged to be highly spiritually-evolved? These latter individuals are the ones best able to communicate the deeper aspects of etheric life.

Of course if you're only interested in the minutiae of discarnate life then there might be interesting accounts to be had from 'ordinary' spirits, the equivalent of 'ordinary' human beings. I do see some justification for listening to how day-to-day life goes on in the dimension(s) following this physical one, accounts given by those who observe/experience them.


Mac, I read "everything" on spirit communication, channeling, ADCS, OBEs, NDEs, deathbed visions, etc. etc......I especially liked dr. Michael Newton's books on "life between lives"......there is a wealth of knowlege out there and I have researched it for years.......My personal communications have been through ADCs from my loved ones, altho I'm sure that my spirit guide throws in some valuable messages too............

Juanita
01-03-2012, 06:39 PM
Sounds like it's worth a look, then. :smile:

At this point, I'm more interest in what will happen next than in what happened previously. :D However, the forelife or prelife is indeed a sorely neglected topic. There's an article about same in the 11 February issue of Psychic News, which I haven't read yet.

Jim


there are so many books out there -- the Life between Lives series by Dr. Micharel Newton, Testimony of Light and wheel of Eternity by Helen greaves, books by Moody and various mediums, etc. etc.......what I "can" tell you is that there are many levels on the Otherside and probably thousands upon thousands of realms.....an example of a realm is Borgia's book....... there is no such thing as death, just a transition to a higher frequency/vibration.....that we have a soul family and a primary soulmate....that they are young, healthy, happy, free and very busy.........I do love channeled books by spirits such as Seth, Silver Birch, and especially Emmanuel too........and those by Monroe even tho I find them fantastical...:-)

Left Behind
01-03-2012, 07:41 PM
Now, Silver Birch, and Seth, I've heard of: but not Emmanuel, or Monroe.

Jim

mac
01-03-2012, 09:40 PM
Mac, I read "everything" on spirit communication, channeling, ADCS, OBEs, NDEs, deathbed visions, etc. etc......I especially liked dr. Michael Newton's books on "life between lives"......there is a wealth of knowlege out there and I have researched it for years.......My personal communications have been through ADCs from my loved ones, altho I'm sure that my spirit guide throws in some valuable messages too............

As I'd suggested, then?

mac
01-03-2012, 09:43 PM
"I do love channeled books by spirits such as Seth, Silver Birch, and especially Emmanuel too........and those by Monroe even tho I find them fantastical...:-)"

I don't know how the other ideas/teachings were received but the teachings of Silver Birch came via trance mediumship, Maurice Barbanell being the medium....

Juanita
02-03-2012, 08:40 PM
Now, Silver Birch, and Seth, I've heard of: but not Emmanuel, or Monroe.

Jim


Emmanuel was channeled through Pat Rodegast..... Monroe is all about his out of body experiences....a lot of which I take with a grain of salt.........

Juanita
02-03-2012, 08:43 PM
As I'd suggested, then?




Yes, lots and lots of reading, but also personal experiences of myself and others......messages of love, comfort, often answers to questions or problems and the constant reassurance that they are sitting right next to me.........