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cweiters
19-03-2007, 04:48 PM
What is your definition of Spiritual Maturity?

Love to all
cw

Mother Goose
19-03-2007, 05:20 PM
This is an excellent question! It's one I've been kinda mulling over myself lately. I really do see it as a 'journey,' not a destination. All of life is about growing and although some of it happens naturally as we age, to make any great strides toward maturing spiritually we must put forth a great deal of effort. Something may 'trigger' our desire to grow spiritually, but once it's been triggered it's up to us to establish the habits that will spur the growth onward.

Our behavior is the true measure of our growth. Many people can believe something without acting upon it. They can know what they SHOULD do without actually doing it or even WANTING to do it. And then there are some people who are so deeply committed to denial that they cannot/will not see what their behavior is really telling them.

Spiritual maturity isn't just 'one place'......it's a shifting, moving, growing experience and it's different for everyone.

Mother Goose
19-03-2007, 05:33 PM
Well, I went looking & found this site. Can't say I agree with everything...but it definitely makes some good points.

http://www.spiritualresearchfoundation.org/spiritualresearch/spiritualscience/spirituallevel_saints/

here's a piece of it:

With increase in one’s spiritual level, one’s attitude and perspective to life changes dramatically. For example, a person at 30% spiritual level may find it very difficult to find time in his busy schedule to attend even one spiritual discourse. The same person having the same worldly commitments, after attaining the 40% spiritual level will easily find time on a regular basis to attend spiritual discourses and regularly study spiritual texts.

A person at a certain spiritual level, e.g. 30% spiritual level can only relate to a person within a few percentage points from him. For example it is very difficult for a person at the 30% spiritual level to relate to a person at the 40% spiritual level and vice versa.

cweiters
19-03-2007, 07:01 PM
I don't know how to properly define spiritual maturity, imho its contingent on how a person apply their acquired knowledge. This might sound silly but I feel spiritual maturity can be either ascending or descending.

I feel its best defined by what we do.. I have encountered many young people here on SF whom I feel are very spiritually mature.

Love to all
cw

Mother Goose
19-03-2007, 07:30 PM
cw, I think we do have 'set backs' when we're on the spiritual path....which would explain the descending that you mentioned. I know I've experienced them myself. Or are you thinking of something more severe...more long-term?

----
edited to remove a bit of 'ranting' on my part....lol...a little set back, cw...sorry about that. LOL

cweiters
19-03-2007, 08:27 PM
I think we do have 'set backs' when we're on the spiritual path....which would explain the descending that you mentioned
The descension I speak of MG is spiritual decay and decline which can be just as comfortable as ascending if one has no knowledge of ascension, especially if one is apart of a large group who practice spiritual bondage rather than spiritual freedom.

Descension imo is spiritual bondage even though external situations may appear to be very prosperous.

I feel spiritual maturity is the beginning of fulfillment, the Ascension process to freedom and growth.

Christianity tells me spiritual maturity is when I accept Jesus Christ as my personal Savior.

Spiritual Maturity what is it? How do the spiritual mature people respond to life?
Maybe we should also take a look a spiritual immaturity.

Love to all
cw

daisy
19-03-2007, 09:22 PM
maybe it's just being comfortable with where you're at in your progression, whether its a good place or a bad place at the moment, and the knowledge you'll grow and learn from either place

ramana
19-03-2007, 09:44 PM
Excellent question in my humble opinion.

As we (think we) grow spiritually it is a wise thing to step back and measure our progress - are we thinking that we are growing or are we really growing? If we think that we have become smarter and better than others that is a sure indication of our not getting the point of the I is part of a whole, there is nothing specific as I. Maya ( illusion) is so tenacious( Is it the right word, my English not too good), it gets us in some way or the other. It makes good sense to measure ourselves once in while - consciousness level, aura photography or simply by self enquiry. When we still can't forgive or can't love everyone ( including animals, trees etc) we have a lot left to go.

I would like to know from more people the answer to this question - how do we measure our spiritual maturity.

SpiritAwakes
19-03-2007, 11:16 PM
I love everyone's take on the subject and can't help but agree with all of you! It's an excellent question and worth deliberation. I believe spirituality is nearly beyond measure and beyond definition, just like the greatest gift of all, Love. In fact, I see them as one and the same thing. To measure one's spirituality then, would be to measure one's Love. The strength, courage, resolve, dedication and nurturing compassion that one places, lives, and strives for in Love, I see, as the measure of one's spiritual maturity. To truly live in Love, is to truly live in Spirit, and to ascend in Love, is to ascend to one's higher self and to connect with the great Divine, which is within and without. I feel that is something we must all work towards, although at times, it may come just as naturally as breath, and at other times, we may falter. But, we must keep heading towards that sunshine, that Source, that unwavering pulse of unlimited Love, Compassion, Peace, and Gratitude. To be completely spiritually mature then, would be to live completely in Love, with no prejudice or discrimination, no anger or hatred, and no "descending" feelings towards one self, others, or the world around us.

"The greatest thing, you'll ever learn, is just to love, and be loved in return." -Nat King Cole? not certain.. but i agree! :) :hug3:

ramana
20-03-2007, 12:42 AM
maybe it's just being comfortable with where you're at in your progression, whether its a good place or a bad place at the moment, and the knowledge you'll grow and learn from either place

Beautiful !

cweiters
20-03-2007, 01:28 AM
I agree ramana measurements are very important. I feel when I measure I must reference myself being mesured only by my own merit. Spiritually who else can I be compaired with? Only the one I can change which is me, through the grace of God.

As we (think we) grow spiritually it is a wise thing to step back and measure our progress - are we thinking that we are growing or are we really growing? If we think that we have become smarter and better than others that is a sure indication of our not getting the point.

Thank you ramana this is a very insightful point. It makes good sense to measure ourselves once in while - consciousness level, aura photography or simply by self enquiry.

Spiritual Maturity = self examination which is not easy when I only want to see my bright side.

Love to all
cw

Roo
20-03-2007, 02:09 AM
I think spiritual maturity has a lot to do with being able to look at the dark side with as much love and compassion as the bright side.

cweiters
20-03-2007, 02:25 PM
Oh Roo thank all of you so............much, word of equality for all mank kind is like precious jewels or sweet music to the ear. I Lo...............ve it!

love to all
cw

TzuJanLi
20-03-2007, 03:27 PM
Greetings..

Maturity implies some sort of standard.. which, i must say, eludes me.. personally, though, it seems that for me.. it is the transition from beliefs to knowledge.. while in the belief stages, there is room for doubt, but.. after a while, after challenging those beliefs, there comes a point when it becomes knowledge.. we begin to live it, without doubt..

Several have mentioned "equality", as if it is something that we acquire.. it is, rather, a principle.. You are a child of the universe, no less than the trees and the stars; you have a right to be here. And whether or not it is clear to you, no doubt the universe is unfolding as it should.
That is an excerpt from the poem "Desiderata" by Max Ehrmann.. it speaks volumes..

BE WELL..

cweiters
20-03-2007, 05:52 PM
Thank you TanJanLi for this message: it is the transition from beliefs to knowledge.. while in the belief stages, there is room for doubt, but.. after a while, after challenging those beliefs, there comes a point when it becomes knowledge.. we begin to live it, without doubt..

Feeling doubtful is a natural reaction when one lack knowledge.

I've been beating myself :BangHead: because recently I had what I call a spiritual episode, it feels like a dream although I know! I am awake. I just don't get it! Until it manifest itself, I feel so slow about receiving the message. I come out of it with doubt, questioning myself, trying to rationalize the spiritual.

When will I learn?

Love to all
cw

Wind of Grace
20-03-2007, 06:19 PM
To broaden our understanding of ourselves and of life, is to reach deep within our being to find the answers that we may be searching for. All of the anwers lie in waiting, in the depth of our soul, for us to reach within and grasp onto, if we so choose. Each experience that we live through is constantly bathed, ever so richly, with many emotions. The more intense the experience, the more intense the emotion. Through our emotions, we are graced with opportunity.... Each situation, each set of circumstances, can (if we so wish), open another door to access another area of understanding. Not a higher or lower understanding, simply another understanding. As we access new spaces of understanding, we can connect deeper as a whole. We can look into the faces of others, share our personal stories, and understand more about our existence, and our relationship to one another. Understanding, I believe, leads to mutual respect, and everlasting peace.... :smile:


Love & Hugs, Wind of Grace xo.... :hug3:

ramana
21-03-2007, 02:37 AM
Spiritual Maturity = self examination which is not easy when I only want to see my bright side.

Love to all
cw

Dear CW, your posts are so full of love. It feels so good reading your words.

When you think about the good side of yours .. try to observe who is getting these ideas. You get the answer as I. Then start questioning who the I is. As you go on enquiring like this you will get to see the light. I am trying this and am getting frustrated but I am seeing the frustration getting a little more creative these days. The best thing is the ability to see myself as an outsider - watching my own stupid actions with abandon- the rhetoric, drama, trying to act smarter, possesiveness etc... I am going back and forth but I see there is a light at the end of the tunnel.

May you see the light,

Ramana

lightworker
10-04-2007, 08:49 AM
I don't know if this is the right place to post this, but I was wondering what all your thoughts would be on this one.
I am a very spiritual person, I try to be loving and non-judgemental most of the time and i am pretty successful at doing it, but sometimes when my husband is being sarcastic or selfish I can't help but judge him. How does a person get to the point of (being fine with how other people act)? I am the kind of person that hates conflict, i wish everyone could be blissfully happy and peaceful all the time, but when people around me don't want to live like that, i can't help but get disappointed. i know my husband loves me, & I want to be able to love him unconditionally, whether he''s being nice or not, how do i do this?

Pounamu
10-04-2007, 11:32 AM
.....but when people around me don't want to live like that, i can't help but get disappointed. i know my husband loves me, & I want to be able to love him unconditionally, whether he''s being nice or not, how do i do this?

Hi Lightworker...

Expectation can lead to disappointment if the expectation is not fulfilled... If one expects people to be nice, and they are not - - do you see how not having expectations about people might relieve you of the disappointment? Perhaps just look upon them as they are, and not compare them with how they "should" be...

Mind you, I agree its not very comfortable to be surrounded by "not very nice" people; if this happens, in my opinion it is time to look within oneself and try to track down why one is attracting that kind of experience! There will always be a reason...

Blessings,
Pounamu

TzuJanLi
10-04-2007, 12:06 PM
Greetings..

By affirming that you are having difficulties, you create the space for the difficulties to manifest.. there is no issue with acknowledging a challenge, IF it is followed by affirming you have the ability to overcome that challenge.. by thanking the universe for the tools you have to overcome the challenges..

It is useful to acknowledge that there is balance throughout the universe.. and, the challenges you face are aspects of the balance.. where you may seek the most harmonious paths others may choose more chaotic paths, but.. somewhere in the middle there is balance.. It is not always that one is "okay" with the chaotic aspects of others, it is more of an understanding, an awareness that things are "as they should be", despite our feelings about them.. feelings are quite natural, but.. often it is more about our discomfort with our own feelings than it is about the deeds of others.. getting comfortable with yourself is usually the best solution..

Be well..

Maranda
10-04-2007, 02:07 PM
cweiters,

"What is your definition of Spiritual Maturity?"

Good question. I need this right now. I too am on a never ending journey. It is a journey of personal and spiritual growth. I don't agree that it takes a great deal of effort, but then maybe I'm just lazy. I think we all go at our own pace and we shouldn't push too hard or we might miss something and have to go do it over again causing our journey to be tougher than it should be.

Maranda
10-04-2007, 02:08 PM
Mother Goose,

"Our behavior is the true measure of our growth."

True. We become our experiences. People in our lives can see the changes in us but it is more difficult, I think, to put this across in forums like this. That's why, I for one, hesitate to discus progress. I don't want to give others the impression that I am getting above myself. And that's why I think this is a very good thread.

I'm going to check out that link it looks interesting.

Maranda
10-04-2007, 02:35 PM
cweiters,

I feel I apply my acquired knowledge in a personal way. It has helped me to survive an abusive childhood, and made me a better person. My belief that I cannot interfere with anyone else's journey or progress has kept me from becoming involved in a professional way. I prefer to offer information for guidance purposes only, and only when asked for it. If I do a 'friendly' reading for a friend or a cyber friend I often add 'For entertainment purposes only'.

Excuse the many posts. This thread has grabbed my attention and gives me a chance to let others know where I am coming from - hopefully.

cweiters
10-04-2007, 03:00 PM
Maranda I totally agree with you as I am grateful you survived the abuse.
God as I understand created each of us unique, yet the same, can you imagine that? You must develope at your own pace, just to find out we are all on the same pace because we share the same space and time.

Each expeience in life will bring us back to the beginning. Irronic as it sound I leave the starting point of life just to find myself back at the beginning of time. I hope this is making since Maranda, each of our experiences seem to be unique but in reality they are not, the only unique thing about them is you.

Your journey is a beautiful one Maranda I love to listen to your heart speak in your writings. Just remember we are traveling with you on this spiritual path we call life. I am not here to judge you at all. Deep down inside me I feel your youthful experiences has served you well.

Love to all
cw

Maranda
10-04-2007, 03:14 PM
TzuJanLi,

I say thank you for the tools I have had and for the tools I still have and use, like relaxation, meditation and affirmations. I also say thank you to the Universe for giving me the strength to overcome my own difficulties and allowing me to help others in whatever way I can.

My path began chaotically but become more harmonious with time, knowledge and acceptance of past events.

"..It is not always that one is "okay" with the chaotic aspects of others, it is more of an understanding, an awareness that things are "as they should be", despite our feelings about them.. feelings are quite natural, but.. often it is more about our discomfort with our own feelings than it is about the deeds of others.. getting comfortable with yourself is usually the best solution.."

Yes. I find I must be comfortable with what I'm doing. Go against the grain and it becomes painful.

Anyone else feel actual pain if they go against the grain?

Maranda
10-04-2007, 03:24 PM
Pounamu,

I can see this is going to be a great thread.

"Expectation can lead to disappointment if the expectation is not fulfilled... If one expects people to be nice, and they are not - - do you see how not having expectations about people might relieve you of the disappointment?"

I have learned to accept everyone for whom they are. If I feel uncomfortable in any one persons presence for some reason, I simply distance myself from them. We can't like everyone and not everyone will like us. I have also learned to look for the best in everyone, doesn't always work but I keep trying.

Maranda
10-04-2007, 04:51 PM
cweiters,

Thank you. Everyone needs a little validation from time to time. And I seem to need it more than others.

If I understand you regards coming back to the beginning..... Here's what I do...... I see myself on a long staircase with separate landings. I can choose to stop and exploring any landing. If I like what I find I could stay for a while, and if I don’t I know I can always go back to the stairway and continue upwards.

One time, too much was happening at once, I became overwhelmed and felt very lost. Then I heard a voice say, "You can always go back." So I did. I calmed down and got back on track. I have never found myself overwhelmed since.

My experiences have served me well. I am surrounded by friends and family - at twenty I was ready to commit murder! I hated the world and his wife. I'm happy now and I know I am who I am because of what I went through, because of all the lessons I learned. I gave Spirit and the Universe a run for their money but they never gave up on me.

lightworker
10-04-2007, 11:41 PM
:hug2: Thankyou everyone for your wise words. Last night when i went to bed, i asked the source of all that is,"how do i love people unconditionally?" When i awoke, the message popped straight into my head."There are many different ways to love". It was like a light bulb went on, it all made sense to me, even though my husband isn't always "nice", he is loving me the best way he knows how, and i know that's true with all my heart. Like Pounamu said, expectation can lead to disappointment, i am now going to try and work on my expectations. Thankyou again everyone, it's so good to be a member on this forum with you all :o):hug:

Maranda
11-04-2007, 08:40 AM
Mother Goose,

I agree about set backs. I spent a long time taking five steps forward and two back.

Maranda
11-04-2007, 08:40 AM
cweiters,

I've done the spiritual immaturity thing. I had a breakdown. But I like to think of it as a break-through. After that it was onwards and upwards. Personally, I feel spiritual maturity is recognising what level we are at and accepting it, and being prepared to recognise the next step when it happens. It also means that we stop comparing ourselves with others, stop trying to gauge how well we are doing. We accept that we are in the best seat for us and that others are in the best seat for them.

Maranda
11-04-2007, 08:41 AM
ramana,

I feel myself quite far along but I cannot see myself loving everything. I'm on a zen forum and we had a discussion on just that topic. They aslo said that we should love everything and everyone, and I have to admit to having a problem with that. So maybe I'm not as far along as I thought. Still a work in progress perhaps.

cweiters
11-04-2007, 04:20 PM
Thank you Maranda tis like sweet music to my soul.
I Lo...........ve it!


Personally, I feel spiritual maturity is recognising what level we are at and accepting it, and being prepared to recognise the next step when it happens. It also means that we stop comparing ourselves with others, stop trying to gauge how well we are doing. We accept that we are in the best seat for us and that others are in the best seat for them.

Love to all
cw