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deepsea
10-12-2011, 10:46 PM
We all have visions of what the spirit world is like.
Our own visions of what to expect.
But on the whole what are the basics of spirit and their world?
Why is the truth of the spirit world so mysterious?
Why aren't we given the whole truth of what to expect when our time comes?
We hear this version and that version,most very different from the other.
We know there are different planes starting from the bottom progressing to the most elusive plane of all where we are one with the Great Spirit.
I find this very confusing.

Why can't spirit give us the true picture before we pass onto into their world?
Deepsea

Enya
10-12-2011, 11:14 PM
Because we come here to learn... and because some people, when the truth of Home is revealed, may feel the urge to end it here and return before their work is done. Also, there is *so* much to understand, so many complexities... our human containers can't hold it all for long.

psychoslice
10-12-2011, 11:38 PM
because we can nevr know it through the mind, and what we cannot know through the mind we call mystious.

deepsea
11-12-2011, 08:47 AM
In other words,curiosity keeps us going and encourages us dig that little bit deeper.
Thanks friends.
:smile:

Native spirit
11-12-2011, 01:33 PM
:smile: I cant really say anymore than has already been said


Namaste

glenos
11-12-2011, 01:56 PM
In other words,curiosity keeps us going and encourages us dig that little bit deeper.
Thanks friends.
:smile:


Some have to "dig deeper" J. Others have quite an understanding and much proof, and this over many years. The 'trouble' starts when once you have that knowledge.. :icon_eek: :D



G

deepsea
11-12-2011, 02:11 PM
We want more.
We are happy with a little proof at the beginning but then want more and more!

Looking for the ultimate proof that will satisfy us.
:smile:

Mayflow
11-12-2011, 02:21 PM
We all have visions of what the spirit world is like.
Our own visions of what to expect.


I actually don't. I have no idea of what to expect (we are talking about after death of the physical body, right?)

mattie
11-12-2011, 02:27 PM
For some fairly clearly written info. about the dimensions (Ds) check out multidimensions.com. Free book downloads & allot of information about the Ds & our journey through them including characteristics of each D.

glenos
11-12-2011, 03:15 PM
We want more.
We are happy with a little proof at the beginning but then want more and more!

Looking for the ultimate proof that will satisfy us.
:smile:

We all do that J., until that is we get a few show stoppers added to that which have have built up over the years. Blend that into who you have become over those years (if you have been ground and polished by life) and lots of things start dropping into place. Go back then to say Silver Birch, and read again and one will more often than not say "well blow me down" or words to that effect. All the threads start to weave together. "Luvverly jubberly" as Del would say.

G

earthprowler
11-12-2011, 03:44 PM
We all have visions of what the spirit world is like.
Our own visions of what to expect.
But on the whole what are the basics of spirit and their world?
Why is the truth of the spirit world so mysterious?
Why aren't we given the whole truth of what to expect when our time comes?
We hear this version and that version,most very different from the other.
We know there are different planes starting from the bottom progressing to the most elusive plane of all where we are one with the Great Spirit.
I find this very confusing.

Why can't spirit give us the true picture before we pass onto into their world?
Deepsea

"Anctient chinese secret". ;-)

deepsea
11-12-2011, 04:35 PM
"Anctient chinese secret". ;-)

Gotta be something like that.....:D
Wonder if we need a password to get in the front door?

earthprowler
11-12-2011, 07:42 PM
probably something along the lines of "um, father......i'm back with no where to go......can i come in please???" :redface::D:wink:

deepsea
11-12-2011, 08:52 PM
That sounds about right,what worries me is where they offer lodgings.

Could be where it's a bit hot.
:nono:

Left Behind
12-12-2011, 12:08 AM
Yes, Deepsea: I think we all learn, little by little.

Also, remember the story of the blind men trying to describe an elephant: that it was like a rope, a snake, a tree, a wall, a fan - depending on what part of it's body they were touching?

They were all correct: but none of them were "seeing" the whole picture.

Or imagine what it would be like if you were a space traveler who landed on earth? Odds are that you would say that it was a vast salt ocean. Or maybe a lifeless desert. Or a dense jungle teeming with life. Or a big city, inhabited by bipedal creatures who seemed to be dependent on some quasi-life form that had four wheels. And in every case you'd be correct.

I think the same applies to Spiritualist revelations. Or to Near Death Experiencers. Or to those who have received other revelations. All are seeing just a small part of the next world.

And then, as othere here mentioned, all that has to be filtered through the mind and values of the seer. . . no wonder we are told different things.

Jim

deepsea
12-12-2011, 07:21 AM
You are so right,Jim.
How often do we have discussions with friends,family etc?
How often do we agree or they disagree with us about how a certain aspect of anything looks?
Scenery,paintings for instance.
We all see things differently from each other.
How boring it would be if we all had same viewpoint as each other.
:confused:

LuvChild
20-01-2012, 10:18 PM
Because we come here to learn... and because some people, when the truth of Home is revealed, may feel the urge to end it here and return before their work is done. Also, there is *so* much to understand, so many complexities... our human containers can't hold it all for long.


I agree with this. The less we know about the beauty we're missing, the less we'll want to ditch boot camp and go back there. :angel1:

Left Behind
20-01-2012, 11:08 PM
I agree with this. The less we know about the beauty we're missing, the less we'll want to ditch boot camp and go back there. :angel1:

Talk about seeing things differently (see above!) :smile: : it's just the opposite with me. The more I learn about the next life, the more I understand the importance of this one.

LuvChild
21-01-2012, 12:31 AM
Talk about seeing things differently (see above!) :smile: : it's just the opposite with me. The more I learn about the next life, the more I understand the importance of this one.

That's okay. I know how important it is to stick it out here, it just makes me wish there was a fast forward button. That's all. :D

Left Behind
21-01-2012, 02:05 AM
That's okay. I know how important it is to stick it out here, it just makes me wish there was a fast forward button. That's all. :D

:D :D :D

Jim

deepsea
22-01-2012, 04:43 PM
.......and this is where Reincarnation comes in......:D

Not changing the subject but imagine living a really rotten life in the physical.

Wouldn't you look forward to returning 'home' after all the turmoil of living on the earthly plane?
:wink:

Humm
22-01-2012, 05:24 PM
How does the world look to the blind? How does the world sound to the deaf? What sense does the world make to the ignorant?

This is what consciousness is, is an understanding of what is in awareness. People only gradually build an appreciation of this, of how the level of true understanding may be very low or very high for any individual element of consciousness, and how in turn this level of understanding within consciousness effects and shapes their worldview. The base assumption is 'What I see is what IS', but slowly we learn that the world is actually very different from what we think it is.

How much more so for Spirit.

Westleigh
22-01-2012, 05:35 PM
My view is that we simply can't get our heads around it. The spirits we talk to have to try to find a way to express spirit in a way that we, with our human experience, understand, and that is an extremely difficult thing to do. We have very limited experience of a physical reality in a small snippet of time and within a small environment, and no comprehension of anything else, so they have no basis for comparison to work with.

Most humans just can't comprehend infinity. That's why most of us avoid thinking very much about the true nature of existence, the infinite vastness of space, the fact that we inhabit a tiny corner of a tiny planet in a tiny corner of a huge universe in a tiny corner of a huge multiverse in a tiny corner of... well, who knows what? As I understand it spirit is anything we want it to be, everything we can imagine is possible, and also everything we can't, and that is a great deal to have to sum up in a sentence, isn't it? :smile:

Left Behind
22-01-2012, 05:45 PM
.......and this is where Reincarnation comes in......:D

Not changing the subject but imagine living a really rotten life in the physical.

Wouldn't you look forward to returning 'home' after all the turmoil of living on the earthly plane?
:wink:

My earthly live hasn't really been an unpleasant one, DS. Even so, going around this world once has been enough for me. Also, I like the "me" that I am, and have no desire to be someone else in another earthly life.

Whether reincarnation is true, or whether we have any choice in the matter: I don't know for sure. But I think "no" to the first part, and I VOTE "no" to the second part! :D

Jim

Left Behind
22-01-2012, 05:47 PM
How does the world look to the blind? How does the world sound to the deaf? What sense does the world make to the ignorant?

This is what consciousness is, is an understanding of what is in awareness. People only gradually build an appreciation of this, of how the level of true understanding may be very low or very high for any individual element of consciousness, and how in turn this level of understanding within consciousness effects and shapes their worldview. The base assumption is 'What I see is what IS', but slowly we learn that the world is actually very different from what we think it is.

How much more so for Spirit.

I believe that you are correct, Humm. :smile:

Jim

Left Behind
22-01-2012, 05:52 PM
My view is that we simply can't get our heads around it. The spirits we talk to have to try to find a way to express spirit in a way that we, with our human experience, understand, and that is an extremely difficult thing to do. We have very limited experience of a physical reality in a small snippet of time and within a small environment, and no comprehension of anything else, so they have no basis for comparison to work with.

Most humans just can't comprehend infinity. That's why most of us avoid thinking very much about the true nature of existence, the infinite vastness of space, the fact that we inhabit a tiny corner of a tiny planet in a tiny corner of a huge universe in a tiny corner of a huge multiverse in a tiny corner of... well, who knows what? As I understand it spirit is anything we want it to be, everything we can imagine is possible, and also everything we can't, and that is a great deal to have to sum up in a sentence, isn't it? :smile:

Near Death Experiencers report the same thing, Westleigh: "ineffable" and "indescribable" are terms that keep popping up in their reports.

As to the incomprehensibles of infinity: I agree! As to that being the reason most people avoid thinking about it: you're a more charitable person than I am! Most people avoid thinking about anything, because they never learned to think in the first place. :D

As to spiirit having unlimited possibilities: yes, that's something to think about! :wink:

Jim

deepsea
22-01-2012, 07:26 PM
I had two experiences of 'visiting' the spirit world.
I will relate the second here.

I found myself in what we will call a 'meeting hall'.
Briefly, my late husband was standing beside me,there were folks milling around,large tables with food and drink for those who needed it.

Now before I go any further,entry into the spirit world, you will find mostly what you have been used to in our world.
Hence the refreshments on the table.
The general atmosphere of a 'Welcome' party.
There were no words spoken as we speak to each other here.

A soldier arrived dressed in army uniform,battle scarred and dirty as if he had just arrived from battle.
The uniform was of the Australian army,over 50 years ago.
My husband left my side and went over to this soldier,no words were spoken but I had the impression they knew each other.
My husband was in the Australian army many years ago and fought in Korea.
He lost touch with many of his old army mates,never knew who still lived and who had passed over.
Now I assume this soldier had lived his earthly life to old age but dressed in army uniform to make himself known to my husband.
Why should this be,did my husband know his old mate was arriving?
Is that why I was taken to this 'hall' to prove that we are met by someone we have known?
Not always family but good friends we have known in life.

This was a very lucid dream to me but I was told later,it was more than a dream.
More like an OBE.
Deepsea

Left Behind
22-01-2012, 09:11 PM
This is VERY much in keeping with what I've heard from reading about both Spiritualistic, and Near Death, experiences, Deepsea.

Yes, it seems that the soldier here - did he look young? - appeared as he did so your husband could recognize him.

Interestingly, often the opposite is reported by NDE'rs. A mother might report meeting a woman in her mid-20's, knowingly immediately that it was her daughter, being greeted by her as a daughter, and the experiencer relating that "my daughter died 20 years ago, when she was 2: but I knew immediately that it was her, grown to adulthood."

Or someone will say, "I met my father. He died 5 years ago, when he was 83. But when I met him in the spirit world, he looked about 40."

Jim

deepsea
23-01-2012, 12:44 PM
Yes,he did look young,Jim.
What I could see of him,all I really remember was his dirty face.
His uniform was covered in dust and dirt.
That soldier would have been about in his seventies or eighties now.
But he chose,as you said,to show himself as he was in the midst of battle.

Now hubby had an experience of his own,years ago long before he was ill.
He dreamed he was standing at the bottom of the hill where a battle was fought in Korea. It is a well known battle,name escapes me at the moment.

His army mates,who he knew had passed on,were standing at the top of the hill,waving to him to join them.
He woke up in a cold sweat. Now that was several years,before he was diagnosed with cancer.
It's amazing what information we can receive in dreams.....or is it the way that spirit can give us information or warnings?:confused:

Mathew James
23-01-2012, 02:22 PM
...remember the story of the blind men trying to describe an elephant: that it was like a rope, a snake, a tree, a wall, a fan - depending on what part of it's body they were touching?...



That is a good story. The mystery of the Spirit is seen differently to us all. Maybe it is more about understanding what we were given to work with and not trying to understand what others were given to them to work with. We all walk our own path and there is a path for every person.

mj

athribiristan
23-01-2012, 06:26 PM
We are conditioned to think in 3 dimensions (4 if you subscribe to spacetime, where time is also a dimension). The spiritual 'realm' consists of more than 3 (or 4) dimensions. This is the cause of our innability to comprehend it. Try to imagine a 4th spatial dimension. This causes most people to shut down completely and become frustrated. The few who can do this still run into a wall when trying to imagine a 5th or 6th dimension and various theories put the total at anywhere between 7 and infinite. It quickly becomes too much for our minds to comprehend. Even those who have been to the other side and returned are unable to put their experience into words that the rest of us can understand.

Left Behind
23-01-2012, 06:51 PM
That is a good story. The mystery of the Spirit is seen differently to us all. Maybe it is more about understanding what we were given to work with and not trying to understand what others were given to them to work with. We all walk our own path and there is a path for every person.

mj

Excellent point, MJ. I'm coming more to a view that even truth can be relative. It may be that, say, if you believe in reincarnation, and I don't, that is God or Spirit telling you that it will happen for you, and it won't for me.

Or it may be that you have opted for it, and I have opted against it.

This would render moot the argument "Is it true, or not? Does it happen, or not?"

I used to discuss this with my wife. She felt that eternity would be rejoicing with Jesus. I felt that I'd still have lessons to learn, work to do, wrongs to atone for. Who can say for sure that both of us are not correct in our own cases?

Incidentally, your name here made me laugh! My real-life first and middle names are "James Matthew". When my wife passed away, I had my own name and birth date placed on the tomb, along with her info.

When I went to the tomb to inspect it, I said to my stepdaughter, en route, "Well, I wonder how they managed to screw it up?"

Sure enough! They had my name as "Matthew James"!

Exit mausoleum, chew *** of sales rep, profuse apologies, lettering corrected next week.

This is another reason why I recommend people arrange their own burials as much as possible while they're still on this side of eternity: makes it easier to straighten out the inevitable screw-ups. :angry1:

Jim

Left Behind
23-01-2012, 06:56 PM
Yes,he did look young,Jim.
What I could see of him,all I really remember was his dirty face.
His uniform was covered in dust and dirt.
That soldier would have been about in his seventies or eighties now.
But he chose,as you said,to show himself as he was in the midst of battle.

Now hubby had an experience of his own,years ago long before he was ill.
He dreamed he was standing at the bottom of the hill where a battle was fought in Korea. It is a well known battle,name escapes me at the moment.

His army mates,who he knew had passed on,were standing at the top of the hill,waving to him to join them.
He woke up in a cold sweat. Now that was several years,before he was diagnosed with cancer.
It's amazing what information we can receive in dreams.....or is it the way that spirit can give us information or warnings?:confused:


It seems clearly "so your husband could recognize him" in this case, DS.

I just finished reading Admiral Usborne Moore's "Glimpses of the Next State". He tells of an experience where a medium related to him that at a sitting, she clairvoyantly saw a man in a naval uniform, who gave her his name, and who was drippping water.

Adm. Moore recognized him as an officer aboard his vessel: who had fallen overboard, and DROWNED, some 20 years earlier! :icon_eek:

Jim

deepsea
23-01-2012, 08:09 PM
Exactly,Jim.

After my father passed away,I 'saw' him in a dream.
My dad was 73 years when he left us,but he looked in his 40's in the dream.
Dressed as he always dressed,when going out somewhere.
Smartly dressed in suit and tie.
Black hair,not grey. And the great big smile I remembered from long ago.
He held out his arms to give me a hug and I woke up!
:D

deepsea
23-01-2012, 08:13 PM
We are conditioned to think in 3 dimensions (4 if you subscribe to spacetime, where time is also a dimension). The spiritual 'realm' consists of more than 3 (or 4) dimensions. This is the cause of our innability to comprehend it. Try to imagine a 4th spatial dimension. This causes most people to shut down completely and become frustrated. The few who can do this still run into a wall when trying to imagine a 5th or 6th dimension and various theories put the total at anywhere between 7 and infinite. It quickly becomes too much for our minds to comprehend. Even those who have been to the other side and returned are unable to put their experience into words that the rest of us can understand.

Your last sentence,Athribiristan.
It is indeed,hard to describe exactly what we have experienced in the spirit world.
Colours cannot be related exactly how we have seen them.
Details are blurred,the visual experience is practically gone.
Deepsea

Cano
25-01-2012, 03:47 PM
I gather that our world is just as mysterious and difficult to see in the eye's of spirits.


Cano

mac
26-01-2012, 02:17 AM
I gather that our world is just as mysterious and difficult to see in the eye's of spirits.


Cano

Looking into the physical world from the etheric may well be difficult - that's well documented.

For those who have never lived here their clouded perception is likely to be because they haven't experienced life in-the-body.

Those who have lived here may be equally unable (literally) to look back into the physical world they once inhabited, but because they have experienced lives here, the conditions are still familiar and hence not mysterious.

deepsea
26-01-2012, 08:33 AM
Those from here may well remember their last life once they reach the spirit world,so would feel at home if visiting this plane once again.
But I believe memories fade in time (so I read once) the longer they spend in spirit.
How true this is,I really do not know.
Deepsea

mac
26-01-2012, 02:35 PM
Those from here may well remember their last life once they reach the spirit world,so would feel at home if visiting this plane once again.
But I believe memories fade in time (so I read once) the longer they spend in spirit.
How true this is,I really do not know.
Deepsea

That's a fair point but rather like riding a bike we probably will always do better than someone who hasn't ever done it - even though we may not have put foot-to-pedal for a l-o-n-g time......

Even a faded memory is way better than never having had the experience in the first instance. :wink:

deepsea
26-01-2012, 06:56 PM
it brings to mind children who bring up memories of a past life.
(if that is what they are)
Those memories fade in time,like our memories of this physical plane will do.

mac
26-01-2012, 07:01 PM
it brings to mind children who bring up memories of a past life.
(if that is what they are)
Those memories fade in time,like our memories of this physical plane will do.

There are some pretty convincing accounts but not all are convincing or unable to be explained in other ways....

Yes, memories fade with the physical body's decline but do the memories that we hold within our spiritual selves fade, the selves we can't full engage until we've left the physical dimension?

deepsea
26-01-2012, 07:49 PM
Another go,before net disappears.....:icon_frown:

Where are those memories held?
In our physical brain?
In our higher self?
Where?

mac
26-01-2012, 07:54 PM
Another go,before net disappears.....:icon_frown:

Where are those memories held?
In our physical brain?
In our higher self?
Where?

I don't know except it's not the brain... Our mind, perhaps/probably - of the spirit and not only of the physical although part of the physical when we're in-the-body....

Left Behind
26-01-2012, 08:24 PM
Another go,before net disappears.....:icon_frown:

Where are those memories held?
In our physical brain?
In our higher self?


Both, maybe?

Good luck on your internet problems, DS. :icon_frown:


Jim

mac
26-01-2012, 08:53 PM
Both, maybe?

Good luck on your internet problems, DS. :icon_frown:


Jim

Possibly both locations when incarnate but without conscious access to everything, hence no automatic recollection of events from other lifetimes (if we've had any)....

When the body dies, the brain ceases to function so anything considered memory after that point must be located elsewhere.

deepsea
26-01-2012, 08:58 PM
I don't know except it's not the brain... Our mind, perhaps/probably - of the spirit and not only of the physical although part of the physical when we're in-the-body....

Got to be the mind,Mac.
Way,way down among memories we think we have forgotten.
:smile:

deepsea
26-01-2012, 09:02 PM
Both, maybe?

Good luck on your internet problems, DS. :icon_frown:


Jim

Getting there,Jim. Good old BT,are working on the line but quite a few people are having problems at the moment.
:icon_frown:

Toolite
30-01-2012, 02:17 PM
We all have visions of what the spirit world is like.
Our own visions of what to expect.
But on the whole what are the basics of spirit and their world?
Why is the truth of the spirit world so mysterious?
Why aren't we given the whole truth of what to expect when our time comes?
We hear this version and that version,most very different from the other.
We know there are different planes starting from the bottom progressing to the most elusive plane of all where we are one with the Great Spirit.
I find this very confusing.

Why can't spirit give us the true picture before we pass onto into their world?
Deepsea


The answer is in us but, we must come as one together.. God puts pieces of the truth in each of us and we have to put certain things aside envy, strife etc.. to get the missing pieces.. sometimes its just as simple as putting our ego aside and being honest and in that we come together like a puzzle and that gives the complete picture.. It does help when a person knows their piece given by God so they know where they fit in the puzzle and what gaps they can close.

All The Glory Belongs To God Forever!

deepsea
30-01-2012, 04:39 PM
Thank you,Toolite.
We have to work towards spirituality,to erase all the problems of the earthly physical existance.
That is a hard job in it's self.
No wonder it takes a life time in itself.

Toolite
01-02-2012, 07:09 PM
Thank you,Toolite.
We have to work towards spirituality,to erase all the problems of the earthly physical existance.
That is a hard job in it's self.
No wonder it takes a life time in itself.


Thats the weird part we have so many things in place to help us to resolve issues but, our wills is so powerful...I agree it takes lifetimes because as you we live over and over and over again...lol.. stubborn souls..

All The Glory Belongs To God Forever!

deepsea
01-02-2012, 09:26 PM
We never learn,do we? Look at the wars that was fought in the name of religion?
Says it all!

Mathew James
02-02-2012, 01:40 PM
...I'm coming more to a view that even truth can be relative. It may be that, say, if you believe in reincarnation, and I don't, that is God or Spirit telling you that it will happen for you, and it won't for me...


What you stated above is kind of where my path is leading me. And it might be as simple as we are all just different parts of the same energy/the God being. So if we are all different parts, there is no reason for us to all be the same. imo, it is our character that is programmed into our brains over our lifes. When the body/brain ceases, the energy in our brain that holds our character, moves into a higher dimension.


mj

deepsea
02-02-2012, 04:27 PM
And will we learn the truth in that higher dimension?

Left Behind
02-02-2012, 04:32 PM
We never learn,do we? Look at the wars that was fought in the name of religion?
Says it all!

I suspect, Deepsea, that if it wasn't religion it would be something else: nationality, race, geography, economic status, etc.

I also wonder how much fighting in the name of religion is really about religion. Many Crusaders went to the Holy Land to pillage. The Protestant-Catholic conflict in Ireland was about more things than denominational Christianity.

If you can ever get hold of a book called African Genesis, by Robert Ardrey, it's well worth reading.

Ardrey concludes that humanity has an "amity-enmity complex": "I" must be extended to "us", and since there's an "us", there must be a "them". People are always going to have, or will create, an enemy.

You see this everywhere, from nations to sports fans to street gangs.


Jim

deepsea
02-02-2012, 04:48 PM
Superiority?
In other words 'I'm better than you'.
Would that make sense?
:smile:

Mathew James
02-02-2012, 11:52 PM
Wars/fighting are never about religion. There is nothing to win in a battle over religion. What is there to gain if a person kills or hurts someone if all they want to do is convert them. There is nothing that makes sense about a war over religion. Wars are fought to gain an enemy's possessions, what ever that may be, but it is not for thier religion.

mj

Left Behind
03-02-2012, 04:49 AM
Superiority?
In other words 'I'm better than you'.
Would that make sense?
:smile:

It makes sense. :smile:

I just like the Ardrey book, and like to plug it whenever I can! :D


Jim