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deepsea
10-12-2011, 07:53 AM
Simple question?

Is Spiritualism regarded as a Religion?
If it is.......why isn't it included in the telephone directories under the heading of 'Religion'?
:confused:

Deepsea

pre-dawn
10-12-2011, 09:10 AM
Spiritualism seems to consist mainly of talking to dead people one knew when they were alive with little else behind or beyond it.
How could one make a religion out of this?

Spiritualism is an extremely limited aspect of our existence, not sufficient to guide us.

When these dead people were alive we probably did our utmost not to take their advice or listen to them, 'I am me!', and now that they are dead one wants to do what we avoided all along? LOL

mac
10-12-2011, 09:37 AM
[quote=pre-dawn]

Spiritualism seems to consist mainly of talking to dead people one knew when they were alive with little else behind or beyond it. I can see that - from the perspective of someone who knows little about Spiritualism....
How could one make a religion out of this? As opposed to what other religions are made out of you mean - stories, make-believe and unsupported beliefs in many cases....

Spiritualism is an extremely limited aspect of our existence, not sufficient to guide us. That's right when you have no knowledge of what is taught, what evidence is available...One would be a fool to accept guidance under such circumstances. Never get that in mainstream religion...:wink:

When these dead people were alive we probably did our utmost not to take their advice or listen to them, 'I am me!', and now that they are dead one wants to do what we avoided all along? laugh out loud at what you don't have a clue about. You gave me a good chuckle alright! :wink:

glenos
10-12-2011, 09:47 AM
Me too!

G

deepsea
10-12-2011, 10:35 AM
Spiritualism seems to consist mainly of talking to dead people one knew when they were alive with little else behind or beyond it.
How could one make a religion out of this?

Spiritualism is an extremely limited aspect of our existence, not sufficient to guide us.

When these dead people were alive we probably did our utmost not to take their advice or listen to them, 'I am me!', and now that they are dead one wants to do what we avoided all along? LOL


Talking to 'dead people'? :icon_eek:
My oh my,where did you get your ideas from?
There is no death,only life beyond physical death.

Are you aware that the spiritualist movement have their own churches,their own ministers?
Spiritualist ministers can conduct services for instance funeral services?
To me that is a religion.
:smile:
Deepsea.

Kaausti
10-12-2011, 10:53 AM
Sorry, don't got a simple answer, just some assumptions and in my opinon...

To me, in the US its probably because we've only used the term "Religion" as stated in our First Amendment Rights. It was probably for lack of a more inclusive term. As you know, Religion is more tangible, majority have doctrines or set of thousands of ways to behave. It probably was easier to describe at the time to add Freedom of...and maybe the term was too loose or non existent at the time???

I don't know that believers of Pagans, WICCANS, Buddhist, Native American Cultures and Religious practices, etc. was REALLY thought about as being "a part of" that Freedom of Religion when this amendment was created...which I would categorize all, including Christianity under Spirituality. But, the intention "I hope" was to allow the people to choose and not be a one size fits all country???

I'm stretching, I know...

As the WICCANS or those who practice non-Christian religious systems (based on our 1st Amendment) become more accepted and when the witch hunts and burnings ceased? maybe, the non-Christian groups...came out from underground...to now, the forefront...where I believe many (like probably most if not all people) on this site are willing to talk about it as normal conversation and not in a fear based way.

I mean we gotta face the facts? While we promote Freedom of Religion, Christianity/Catholics, etc. were the prominent spirit based groups and still is.

HOWEVER! Today, some, like those on this forum can have more open discussions about the different aspects of Spirit for more understanding WITHOUT burning, killing, or ex-communicating each other. Yes, we know that these biases and in some respects hatred exists...but, today, there are more people that are willing to connect instead of divide groups, I don't think this was the case a century or two ago.

I think its a matter of time evolving and the awareness that at the core of many horrific acts (like most wars) is a battle between religious groups...So, those like those on here? Continue to say...HOLD ON! There must be a more inclusive and loving way of living! Just some thoughts...

:hug2:

mac
10-12-2011, 11:15 AM
Sorry, don't got a simple answer, just some assumptions and in my opinon...

To me, in the US its probably because we've only used the term "Religion" as stated in our First Amendment Rights. It was probably for lack of a more inclusive term. As you know, Religion is more tangible, majority have doctrines or set of thousands of ways to behave. It probably was easier to describe at the time to add Freedom of...and maybe the term was too loose or non existent at the time???

I don't know that believers of Pagans, WICCANS, Buddhist, Native American Cultures and Religious practices, etc. was REALLY thought about as being "a part of" that Freedom of Religion when this amendment was created...which I would categorize all, including Christianity under Spirituality. But, the intention "I hope" was to allow the people to choose and not be a one size fits all country???

I'm stretching, I know...

As the WICCANS or those who practice non-Christian religious systems (based on our 1st Amendment) become more accepted and when the witch hunts and burnings ceased? maybe, the non-Christian groups...came out from underground...to now, the forefront...where I believe many (like probably most if not all people) on this site are willing to talk about it as normal conversation and not in a fear based way.

I mean we gotta face the facts? While we promote Freedom of Religion, Christianity/Catholics, etc. were the prominent spirit based groups and still is.

HOWEVER! Today, some, like those on this forum can have more open discussions about the different aspects of Spirit for more understanding WITHOUT burning, killing, or ex-communicating each other. Yes, we know that these biases and in some respects hatred exists...but, today, there are more people that are willing to connect instead of divide groups, I don't think this was the case a century or two ago.

I think its a matter of time evolving and the awareness that at the core of many horrific acts (like most wars) is a battle between religious groups...So, those like those on here? Continue to say...HOLD ON! There must be a more inclusive and loving way of living! Just some thoughts...

:hug2:
You've written a long piece but it doesn't address the subject of the thread and neither does it match the title of the forum - Spiritualism.

Your sentence containing, quote: "...which I would categorize all, including Christianity under Spirituality" might suggest you believe Spiritualism is the same as spirituality, a common misunderstanding.

Spiritualism is a legally recognised religion in both the USA and in the UK incidentally.

pre-dawn
10-12-2011, 12:12 PM
Talking to 'dead people'? :icon_eek:
My oh my,where did you get your ideas from?
There is no death,only life beyond physical death.

Are you aware that the spiritualist movement have their own churches,their own ministers?
Spiritualist ministers can conduct services for instance funeral services?
To me that is a religion.
For all practical purposes the people spiritualists are talking or listening to, are dead.

So, deepsea and mac, what do spiritualists belief which makes them distinct from other religions?

mac
10-12-2011, 12:19 PM
For all practical purposes the people spiritualists are talking or listening to, are dead.

So, deepsea and mac, what do spiritualists belief which makes them distinct from other religions?

You had plenty to say about Spiritualism in your earlier posting. Surely you already know the answer to the question you're now asking???

MMM
10-12-2011, 12:19 PM
pre-dawn, are you seriously this ignorant or just baiting mac?
in the usa , the national association of spiritualist churches is a member of the International Spiritualist Federation and World Parliament of Religions.
from their website
Religion
A Word to the Reader
This web page is intended as a brief introduction to Spiritualism. It will acquaint you with some of the beliefs and highlights of the National Spiritualist Association of Churches. No religion can be completely understood through a few pages so please consider this as some of the basics.

Spiritualism is a common sense religion, one of knowing and living. We accept all truths and endeavor to prove their validity. Truths are found in nature, in other religions, in writings, in science, in philosophy, in Divine Law and are received through spirit communication.

Spiritualists believe that God or Infinite Intelligence is ALL That Is, expressing through all creation by love, light and law. Humanity, the most complex of life on earth, reaches this Divine Source through prayer, meditation, listening to the inner awareness, and service. Why service? Because every living thing is a part of God, so as we serve life we also serve the Higher Energies.

Life is consciousness - without consciousness there is no existence. Consciousness is the totality of one's thoughts, feelings, emotions and impressions on the mind. The state of thinking is how we create our consciousness. Spiritualism teaches that through the Law of Action/Reaction or Cause/Effect we take control of our lives as we control our thoughts. Positive thinking leads to happiness and assists the individual to grow.

Spiritualism encourages growth of loving consciousness in the physical world not only for the immediate benefits, but also the future rewards in the Spiritual Dimension. The Law of Continuity and the Law of Attraction teach us that "As within, so without. As above, so below." A soul arriving in the next plane of existence will find they take their consciousness with them and will be in the company of like-minded entities. The more loving and spiritual the soul has become, the more beautiful and rewarding will be the new home and associates in the spirit land.

Life is continuous, the consciousness never dies for it is part of God and the Infinite is forever. Upon the cessation of the physical housing the spirit graduates to the next plane of existence. This plane is similar to our earthly plane but at a higher rate of vibration and luminosity. One method of service in spirit is to communicate, assist and help illuminate those that are living on the earth plane. Mediums in the Spirit World and mediums in the physical world adjust their vibrations to enable communications between the two planes of existence. It has been demonstrated in our Churches, home circles and in scientific investigations that "there is no death, there are no dead."

All life moves in a gradual state of evolution or change. Arrival in the Spiritual realm does not mean instant knowing. Rather the personality of the individual and the understanding gleaned on the earth plane continue at the same level, ready to begin the next phase of unfoldment. The physical world has aches, pains and struggles. These are not taken to the spiritual realm which is love, light, law, peace, cooperation, sharing, and growth. The soul body is whole and shining forth that which is within its essence. Falsehoods, separateness, and illusions are left behind as the desire to progress awakens. The rewards follow according to the goodness of the entity.

Life concerns growth. We, Spiritualists, try to keep an open, even mind so new truths may be incorporated into our principles. In keeping with this, we have no bound creed or set of dogmas. Our Declaration of Principles, which form the basis of our beliefs, has changed over the years as new clarification has been gleaned. We know that truth is the highest religion and endeavor to test our beliefs, altering them as new truths are proven.

Humans are spiritual beings, an indivisible part of the Divine. God is The Spirit within each individual waiting to be consciously accepted and activated. One of the desires of Spiritualism is to awaken this spirit within, to move beyond the five senses to higher awareness. Each person has free choice and is personally responsible, yet Spiritualism, through communication with the higher teachings derived from the Spirit World, tries to provide a way, a guideline, a set of principles, to help the world travelers to proceed upward, toward the light. The following pages briefly present the message of Spiritualism.

Ancient and Modern Spiritualism
So often in a lecture or a book, we hear the term "Modern American Spiritualism". Why Modern? It is Modern Spiritualism to distinguish it from the ancient form of Spiritualism, for spiritual manifestations and communications between the physical world and the spiritual world have been evident and recorded by all civilizations. In fact, every religion that has ever been, has registered Spirit manifestations. Most all of the great spiritual leaders conversed or communicated with spirits although they were called other names, such as devas, pitris, gods, ancestral spirits, ghosts and magic.

Often, in the beginning of recorded history, people believed in many gods. There was a god that dwelled in all of natures manifestations, such as a sun god, a god of wind and storms, a god of earth, etc. If some problem arose, the individual or group felt that they had in some way displeased the gods. Sometimes offerings or sacrifices were made to appease the gods. Those in the past believed in many gods that were apart from them, where we in Spiritualism believe in one God, that we call Infinite Intelligence, which is All in All or within everything.

The people were uneducated as a whole so much that happened must have been rather frightening, or seemed like miracles or magic.

We, in Modern Spiritualism, know that all flows according to Natural Law. Where the ancients believed in the supernatural, miracles and magic, punishment and rewards, we believe in the natural, God's Laws, growth and love. We are a truth seeking religion that incorporates science and testing as a part of our philosophy.

Often the people of the past thought of phenomena as the work of devils and demons. Some religions today still see communication in this manner. We know that the phenomena is a work through those in the Spirit World and that we attract to us spirit guides that correspond to the level of our vibration.

Ancient (625 BC to 476 AD) humanity thought objectively. By this we meant that the early people made their reflections upon life by looking at the universe as a whole, then attempting to see the interconnections between things. The early thinkers looked at the differences between things; the realities and non-realities, then tried to figure out how the world was constructed based upon this point of view of the world.

Medieval Philosophy (476 AD - 1453 AD) is considered traditional in their thinking which means that they had a set of authoritative doctrines from the past. During the Middle Ages, it is said that humanity, no matter how deeply they reflected, was constrained by a set of religious traditions and censors.

Modern thought is subjective. Here we refer to an entire change in the type of intellect where the starting point is not considered the world, but the individual. We now see that truths can be found within rather than externally. Reality is personal rather than the cosmos of the ancients of the political state of the middle period.

Modern American Spiritualism began on March 31, 1848 with the Fox family establishing communication with the departed murdered spirit of Charles B. Rosna. Much of the basic philosophy that we have tested was given to our pioneers through spirit communication. While Spiritualism began in America, it has spread over the entire world. Thus, to make a short phase long, this is why we call our religion, MODERN AMERICAN SPIRITUALISM.

Quotes from Dr. Victoria Barnes, M.D.
Spiritualism is a provable religion of naturalness based upon physical and spiritual manifestations of the great universal, immutable, eternal Natural Law governing both finite and infinite expressions found in the mortal and immortal worlds.

It reveals the nature of humanity, the nature of the universe in which we live, and our inter-relatedness to each other. It stresses the unfoldment of the soul's potentialities mediumship as the avenue through which our knowledge of an after-life has come, also proof that regardless of what stage of existence we are in, such is but a fractional part of our eternal existence for it is all ONE LIFE.

Through mediumship, communication with mortals who have experienced transition from earth has been established, thus proving, THERE IS NO DEATH

We are all souls now, each clothed in a material body through which our mental and spiritual faculties function. Within this material body is the spiritual or etheric body which serves as the vehicle for soul expression the moment transition occurs...

At transition, we enter a world of entirely different environment and purpose where we have no more use for the material body that has been shed and laid away, than we have for the overcoat in summer. The spiritual body is suited to the conditions of the Spirit World; it is this body that is used for spirit - return.

Spirit - return, according to our present knowledge, is governed by three contributing factors:

LOVE for those still on Earth, DESIRE to prove they still live; and PURPOSE, as contained in the requirements for understanding the operations of Natural Law governing all expressions in the universe, and the inter-relatedness of the material and spiritual worlds……

If Spirit could not return, then the incidents recorded in all the Bibles of the world are falsehoods, and the religions built upon and around these occurrences have been built upon the sands. But, these religions have endured which would indicate their foundations had been more secure than sand. Our present mediums are proving spirit return has never ceased.

Quotations
Confucianism What you don't want done to yourself, don't do to others.
Buddhism Hurt not others with that which pains thyself
Jainism In happiness and suffering, in joy and grief, we should regard all creatures as we regard our own self, and should therefore refrain from inflicting upon others such injury as would appear undesirable to us if inflicted upon ourselves.
Zoroastrianism Do not unto others all that which is not well for oneself.
Classical Paganism May I do to others as I would that they should do unto me.
Hinduism Do naught to others which if done to thee would cause thee pain.
Judaism What is hateful to yourself, don't do to your fellow man.
Christianity What soever ye would that men should do to you, do ye even so to them.
Sikhism Treat others as thou wouldst be treated thyself.
The Philosophy of Spiritualism
The following Declaration of Principles is published to the world, not as a creed binding on the conscious of the individual, but as the consensus of a very large majority of Spiritualists on the fundamental teachings of Spiritualism:

We believe in Infinite Intelligence.

We believe that the phenomena of Nature, both physical and spiritual, are the expression of Infinite Intelligence.

We affirm that a correct understanding of such expression and living in accordance therewith, constitute true religion.

We affirm that the existence and personal identity of the individual continue after the change called death.

We affirm that communication with the so-called dead is a fact, scientifically proven by the phenomena of Spiritualism.

We believe that the highest morality is contained in the Golden Rule: "Do unto others as you would have them do unto you."

We affirm the moral responsibility of individuals, and that we make our own happiness or unhappiness as we obey or disobey Nature’s physical and spiritual laws.

We affirm that the doorway to reformation is never closed against any human soul here or hereafter.

We affirm that the precepts of Prophecy and Healing are Divine attributes proven through Mediumship.

Natural Law
Spiritualists, through contact that is made with those that have passed to the other side of life, affirm the interrelatedness of all life. One clue that a person is beginning to become further intuned and more cosmic, is when the egoistic, self-serving portion of the individual diminishes and the universal consciousness comes to the forefront. Prominent in this consciousness is the awareness of the Universal Laws.

The religion of Spiritualism encourages all humankind to learn and practice living in accordance with God's Laws. What are these Universal Laws? How many of them are there and do they apply to everyone? Infinite Intelligence is Love, Light and Law. Though many use a certain number of laws as guidelines, there is no set number of laws. Just as Love and Light are not limited, so the Law is not limited, as Infinite Intelligence is not limited. Neither does the Law limit those who strive to follow it. Rather, it sets them free and shows them the way to grow, live in peace and be happy.

The study of Natural Law is very beneficial to all. A few brief points to consider are that the laws are just, impartial, consistent, non-judgmental, automatic, immutable, impersonal, affects the physical, mental and spiritual, is unchangeable and the underlying control of the universe, insuring progressive evolution. Natural Law is the connecting link, providing constant order to the universe. It governs the visible and invisible, the animate and inanimate in the mortal and immortal worlds.

Natural Law is like a kind teacher that understands we learn by doing. The law gently points out our mistakes that we may grow and use the insight to our benefit. The law uses the reflecting ethers as a mirror to show us the way. It verifies personal responsibility and individualization.

All things in life interrelate and so it is with the laws. They are evident in mathematics, geometry, mechanics, plant life, seasons, etc. We can use the laws to choose love, light, peace, growth and joy. The universe is propelled by law and impelled by love.

Just a few laws to demonstrate the totality of the Laws:

The Law of Desire

The Law of Harmony

The Law of Mind

The Law of Cause and Effect

The Law of Vibration

The Law of Passivity

The Law of Supply and Demand

The Law of Love

The Law of Life/Light

The Law of Thought

The Law of Compensation/Retribution

The Law of Adhesion/Cohesion

The Law of Evolution

The Law of Continuity

The Law of Attraction/Affinity

The Golden Rule

The Law of Cooperation

The Law of Balance/Polarity

The Law of Cycles/Periodicity

The Law of Gravitation

The Law of Productivity/Receptivity

As the seeker strives to understand Natural Law, they are presented with the truths of the universe. God's Law is immutable and we know of no instances that it has been set aside, therefore, there are no miracles for all is in accordance with the operation of the Spiritual Laws. Infinite Intelligence has given us these constructive, progressive patterns to guide our existence now and forever more. The God of the Universe impregnates the spirit of all, then lets it alone to discover itself through light, love and law. As we learn more of these laws, we learn more of Infinite Intelligence. Emerson wrote, "The finite alone has wrought and suffered, the Infinite lies stretched in smiling repose." The Infinite Spirit within us shows us the way to shine.

Spiritual Mediumship
A medium is one whose organism is sensitive to vibrations from the Spirit World and through whose instrumentality, intelligences in that world are able to convey messages and produce the phenomena of Spiritualism. The phenomena of Spiritualism consists of:
prophecy, clairvoyance, clairaudience, gift of tongues, laying on of hands, healing, visions, trance, apports, revelations, raps, levitation, automatic and independent writing and painting, photography, materialization, psychometry, direct and independent voice, and any other manifestation which proves the continuity of life.

"The office of mediumship is to bless humanity, to enable the race to overcome conditions of matter sufficiently to make such the servant rather than the master of intelligent beings, to enable it to guide (through intuition) the individual for their own and others good." Mary T. Longley from "Teachings and Illustrations As They Emanate From The Spirit World."

Spiritual Healing
Spiritual healing, recognized in many ancient religions, has been a principle of Spiritualism since its beginning. Today, on a national basis, evidence is growing in the medical community of the importance of spiritual healing to the cure of the individual in need. Evidence is growing that the whole person needs treatment, not just the illness.

A Spiritualist Healer is one who, either through his or her own inborn power or through mediumship, is able to transmit curative energies to physical conditions. The results of Spiritual Healing are produced in several ways:

By spiritual influences working through the body of the medium to transmit curative energies to the diseased parts of the recipient's body.

By spiritual influences enlightening the mind of the medium so that the cause, nature and seat of the disease in the recipient is made known to the medium.

Through the application of absent healing treatments whereby spiritual beings combine their own healing energies with the energies of the medium and cause them to be absorbed by the system of the recipient.

A Spiritualist Healer works with the spirit, mind, emotions, and the body of the recipient. A Spiritualist Healer is aware that once stress is removed from the mind and emotions, the body will respond naturally. This brings about holistic healing in the patient.

Spiritualist Healers acknowledge the importance of the medical community and work in cooperation with it at all times. Spiritualism recognizes that the medical community is an instrument of healing of the Infinite.

Prayer for Spiritual Healing
I ask the great unseen healing force
to remove all obstructions from my mind and body
and to restore me to perfect health.

I ask this in all sincerity and honesty
and I will do my part.

I ask this great unseen healing force
to help both present and absent ones
who are in need of help
and to restore them to perfect health.

I put my trust in the love and power of God.



The Objects of Spiritualism
To teach the truths and principles expressed in the Declaration of Principles and in the Definitions of "Spiritualism," "A Spiritualist", "A Medium" and "A Spiritualist Healer" as adopted by the National Spiritualist Association of Churches of the United States of America;

To teach and proclaim the Science, Philosophy and Religion of Modern Spiritualism;

To encourage lectures on all subjects pertaining to the spiritual and secular welfare of humanity;

To protest against every attempt to compel humanity to worship God in any particular or prescribed manner;

To advocate and promote spiritual healing, and to protect and encourage Spiritualist teachers and mediums in all laudable efforts in giving evidence of proof to humanity of a continued intercourse and relationship between the living and the so-called dead;

To encourage every person in holding present beliefs always open to restatement as growing thought and investigation reveal understanding of new truths thereby, leaving every individual free to follow the dictates of reason and conscience in spiritual as in secular affairs.

Why is Spiritualism Important Today, More Than Ever?
Spiritualists come from every walk of life. We are bankers, builders, nurses, teachers, bookkeepers, sales clerks, electricians - any and all professions are attracted to Spiritualism. Every place you find thinking men and women coming together, you will find Spiritualists. Spiritualism is a science, philosophy and religion that satisfies both your logic, your mind and your heart. As the population contemplates the current conditions in the world today, they are seeking a greater understanding of the purpose of life and what can be done to improve individual life situations and the circumstances of the world. Spiritualism gives a person the key that can be used to find the answers she/he seeks. Spiritualism provides the knowledge that by using prayer and meditation, we can become more aware of our responsibilities to ourselves and to others. Through this inner awareness and guidance received through spirit communications, a person takes the necessary actions to improve his or her own life and contributes to the improved welfare of the entire human race.

Spiritualism is the KEY that sets humanity free! Free to live and grow in the physical through love and law; and free because we know that life is continuous, the spirit never dies. "There is no death, there are no dead."

mac
10-12-2011, 12:22 PM
In the UK an explanation doesn't need quite so many words.... :wink:

deepsea
10-12-2011, 12:54 PM
I appreciate all your replies,some interesting information there of facts I was not aware of,like Spiritualism being recognised as a religion in the UK,Mac.

Why my question was asked was for a simple reason.
After moving from one area to another in the UK,I checked the telephone directory looking for the nearest Spiritualist church in the area.
I looked under 'churches' for an entry for Spiritualism.
Nothing was listed for that request.

When my husband passed over I wanted a Spiritualist minister to adminster the service.
Couldn't find one.
When I finally attended the spiritualist church,which was after his funeral,I was informed they could have provided one for me.
True late was the cry.
:icon_frown:

MMM
10-12-2011, 01:02 PM
spiritualist churches recognized with the national spiritualist union are shown on map on http://www.snu.org.uk/community/community.html
there are other spiritualist churches who are not recognized by the union

MMM
10-12-2011, 01:02 PM
you can still hold a memorial service for your husband

mac
10-12-2011, 01:17 PM
"....I checked the telephone directory looking for the nearest Spiritualist church in the area.
I looked under 'churches' for an entry for Spiritualism.
Nothing was listed for that request."

Local listings, including telephone directories, may not have every service provider listed.

Some Spiritualist churches may not have a phone or someone prepared to use their own number for church business.

deepsea
10-12-2011, 02:37 PM
you can still hold a memorial service for your husband

I know,but it's not quite the same.
I would have liked to have a full spiritualist service for him.
He was,after all,a believer in spiritualism himself.
Nice of you to suggest it though,MMM.
:smile:

deepsea
10-12-2011, 02:46 PM
"....I checked the telephone directory looking for the nearest Spiritualist church in the area.
I looked under 'churches' for an entry for Spiritualism.
Nothing was listed for that request."

Local listings, including telephone directories, may not have every service provider listed.

Some Spiritualist churches may not have a phone or someone prepared to use their own number for church business.


That's what local church did up north,Mac. Luckily someone gave me the number.

Here where I live now,the previous manager of the estate was a regular goer to the church. So I was invited to attend with her.
Another query,Mac. Daughter happened to mention that in the Two Worlds magazine that most of the spiritualist churches advertised were mostly from the south,not many if any, churches were mentioned further north up country.
Have we got a dividing line between north and south?
:wink:

mac
10-12-2011, 05:28 PM
That's what local church did up north,Mac. Luckily someone gave me the number.

Here where I live now,the previous manager of the estate was a regular goer to the church. So I was invited to attend with her.
Another query,Mac. Daughter happened to mention that in the Two Worlds magazine that most of the spiritualist churches advertised were mostly from the south,not many if any, churches were mentioned further north up country.
Have we got a dividing line between north and south?
:wink:
It's true that Two Worlds carries predominantly south-of-the-country adverts for churches. I'd guess that the only dividing line that there may be between north and south is one unintentionally created by the churches.

Advertising rates don't vary so one would assume that many committees or organisers don't feel it necessary to advertise. I'd be surprised if Two Worlds - or PN for that matter - doesn't approach them to offer advertising space as cash is tight and advertising must be important.

What we could do with is the input of church-goers and/or committee members to understand the broader situation....

deepsea
10-12-2011, 07:25 PM
I was asking because I was looking for another church reasonably near to me I could attend as an alternative to the one where I live.
There is one in the town near to where daughter lives but still a bit of a journey unless I stay overnight with her.
Still could be worth considering......Thanks Mac.

Enya
10-12-2011, 11:26 PM
I've found this odd too... the only way anyone would know there are Spiritualist churches in our area is if they happen to read the church notices once a month in the local paper! That's about the *only* time mention is made of them, anywhere. Our Yellow Pages or Thomson Directories don't carry their details. I'm not sure if either publication charges for a church entry?

Deepsea, take a look online, on the SNU site - they should list local churches.

pre-dawn
11-12-2011, 04:26 AM
pre-dawn, are you seriously this ignorant or just baiting mac?

I am seriously ignorant.

The wikipedia page about Spiritualism has an extra-ordinary number of references to spirits, medium, seances, etc., so much that it comes across as being obsessed with it.

Expressed as a ratio, how much time is spent on this communication with discarnate entities compared to other things?

deepsea
11-12-2011, 08:44 AM
It would be an excellent idea and encouragement if the spiritualist churches would advertise more.
We need the public to show more interest in the subject to carry on the truth about the afterlife.

mac
11-12-2011, 09:05 AM
"Expressed as a ratio, how much time is spent on this communication with discarnate entities compared to other things?"

the ratio is approximately 1:9,996,894

I worked it out only recently - hope that helps.

glenos
11-12-2011, 10:00 AM
The Pythagoreans, who defined numbers as expressions of ratios, believed that reality is numerical and that the 'Golden Ratio' expressed an underlying truth about existance.

Most interesting.


G

deepsea
11-12-2011, 10:28 AM
The Pythagoreans, who defined numbers as expressions of ratios, believed that reality is numerical and that the 'Golden Ratio' expressed an underlying truth about existance.

Most interesting.


G



You're taking me back to my school days,G.
There is more truth in numbers than we realise.

glenos
11-12-2011, 10:47 AM
I was being facetious J.
I was hardly ever at school. I remember though how many 'Black Jacks' you could get for a Groat (the meaning of life at the time)

G

Perfect Storm
11-12-2011, 10:53 AM
I think its the common misconception that Spiritualist = mediums/talking to the dead. Its all over the TV with Spiritualist Mediums.

I really enjoy the previous long description by MMM. Personally I always thought its was a Christian thing. Talk of God and Christain Spiritualisum.

Glad to read otherwise. I guess it depends how you choose to see your God.

deepsea
11-12-2011, 10:59 AM
Sorry, don't got a simple answer, just some assumptions and in my opinon...

To me, in the US its probably because we've only used the term "Religion" as stated in our First Amendment Rights. It was probably for lack of a more inclusive term. As you know, Religion is more tangible, majority have doctrines or set of thousands of ways to behave. It probably was easier to describe at the time to add Freedom of...and maybe the term was too loose or non existent at the time???

I don't know that believers of Pagans, WICCANS, Buddhist, Native American Cultures and Religious practices, etc. was REALLY thought about as being "a part of" that Freedom of Religion when this amendment was created...which I would categorize all, including Christianity under Spirituality. But, the intention "I hope" was to allow the people to choose and not be a one size fits all country???

I'm stretching, I know...

As the WICCANS or those who practice non-Christian religious systems (based on our 1st Amendment) become more accepted and when the witch hunts and burnings ceased? maybe, the non-Christian groups...came out from underground...to now, the forefront...where I believe many (like probably most if not all people) on this site are willing to talk about it as normal conversation and not in a fear based way.

I mean we gotta face the facts? While we promote Freedom of Religion, Christianity/Catholics, etc. were the prominent spirit based groups and still is.

HOWEVER! Today, some, like those on this forum can have more open discussions about the different aspects of Spirit for more understanding WITHOUT burning, killing, or ex-communicating each other. Yes, we know that these biases and in some respects hatred exists...but, today, there are more people that are willing to connect instead of divide groups, I don't think this was the case a century or two ago.

I think its a matter of time evolving and the awareness that at the core of many horrific acts (like most wars) is a battle between religious groups...So, those like those on here? Continue to say...HOLD ON! There must be a more inclusive and loving way of living! Just some thoughts...

:hug2:

There are more arguments over Spiritualism than who gets to make the morning coffee!:D
I tend to keep out of any arguments,will walk away.
As was said,too many wars over religion......:rolleyes:

deepsea
11-12-2011, 11:01 AM
I was being facetious J.
I was hardly ever at school. I remember though how many 'Black Jacks' you could get for a Groat (the meaning of life at the time)

G

My God,you are going back in time!
Even I remember that.

mac
11-12-2011, 11:42 AM
I think its the common misconception that Spiritualist = mediums/talking to the dead. Its all over the TV with Spiritualist Mediums.

I really enjoy the previous long description by MMM. Personally I always thought its was a Christian thing. Talk of God and Christain Spiritualisum.

Glad to read otherwise. I guess it depends how you choose to see your God.

I don't watch that kind of TV but my guess is that they're called 'spiritual mediums' rather than Spiritualist mediums....

In passing may I point out that 'Christian Spiritualism' is a contradiction as Christianity has certain beliefs directly opposite to the teachings found in (Modern) Spiritualism.

mac
11-12-2011, 12:12 PM
"There are more arguments over Spiritualism than who gets to make the morning coffee!:D
I tend to keep out of any arguments,will walk away.
As was said,too many wars over religion....."

Over Spiritualism itself there are few arguments.

Arguments are mostly over people's personal views/opinions and often come from misunderstandings about Spiritualism (vs spirituality for example)

There has yet to be a war about the religion of Spiritualism - I'd hazard a guess by saying there won't ever be one.

pre-dawn
11-12-2011, 01:10 PM
There has yet to be a war about the religion of Spiritualism - I'd hazard a guess by saying there won't ever be one.
I assume you would get sufficient advance warning from the 'other' side to be able run away.

glenos
11-12-2011, 01:50 PM
Dawn. In post 21 you said that you were "seriously ignorant". You haven't said anything to change my view of that.

G

mac
11-12-2011, 02:23 PM
I assume you would get sufficient advance warning from the 'other' side to be able run away.

Best not to make assumptions, I find.... Easier to ask about what you don't understand.

deepsea
11-12-2011, 04:37 PM
"There are more arguments over Spiritualism than who gets to make the morning coffee!:D
I tend to keep out of any arguments,will walk away.
As was said,too many wars over religion....."

Over Spiritualism itself there are few arguments.

Arguments are mostly over people's personal views/opinions and often come from misunderstandings about Spiritualism (vs spirituality for example)

There has yet to be a war about the religion of Spiritualism - I'd hazard a guess by saying there won't ever be one.

I hope you're right,Mac.:wink:

mattie
11-12-2011, 05:11 PM
3,940,000 results for ‘spiritualism religion.’

http://www.google.com/search?client=safari&rls=en&q=spiritualism+religion&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8

deepsea
11-12-2011, 06:12 PM
Thanks Mattie.
Found some interesting information in there.

Perfect Storm
11-12-2011, 07:37 PM
I don't watch that kind of TV but my guess is that they're called 'spiritual mediums' rather than Spiritualist mediums....

In passing may I point out that 'Christian Spiritualism' is a contradiction as Christianity has certain beliefs directly opposite to the teachings found in (Modern) Spiritualism.

Doesnt stop the Christain Pagans now does it :)

mac
11-12-2011, 09:53 PM
Doesnt stop the Christain Pagans now does it :)

Why would we want to......?

They have free choice as do we.

Left Behind
12-12-2011, 12:00 AM
[quote=pre-dawn]

Spiritualism seems to consist mainly of talking to dead people one knew when they were alive with little else behind or beyond it. I can see that - from the perspective of someone who knows little about Spiritualism....
How could one make a religion out of this? As opposed to what other religions are made out of you mean - stories, make-believe and unsupported beliefs in many cases....

Spiritualism is an extremely limited aspect of our existence, not sufficient to guide us. That's right when you have no knowledge of what is taught, what evidence is available...One would be a fool to accept guidance under such circumstances. Never get that in mainstream religion...:wink:

When these dead people were alive we probably did our utmost not to take their advice or listen to them, 'I am me!', and now that they are dead one wants to do what we avoided all along? laugh out loud at what you don't have a clue about. You gave me a good chuckle alright! :wink:


Now, Mac. . . :D

Yes, that last one's a great point! Didn't even Jesus say, "if they didn't listen to the prophets, why would they listen to one who rose from the dead"? If we ignored Mom for 78 years while she was incarnate, why will we pay attention to her if she speaks from the grave? :rolleyes:

I say that Spiritualism is (or could be or should be) a religion.

Then again I say that Spiritualism could (or should) enhance your beliefs in another religion: or might cause you to rethink them.

I'm new to Spiritualism and have MUCH, MUCH to learn about it: but so far, it's been my impression that all Spiritualist revelations are NOT saying that the next world is identical: any more than Near Death Experiencers, or conventional religious teachers (whether Buddhist, Christian, Hindu, or whatever: whether across religions, or within the same religion) are all teaching the same things about the next world.

Jim

pre-dawn
12-12-2011, 01:48 AM
Dawn. In post 21 you said that you were "seriously ignorant". You haven't said anything to change my view of that.

And I haven't changed my mind about it either.

pre-dawn
12-12-2011, 02:06 AM
Let's assume that there is something in spiritualism and the 'other side' communication.

Why are we satisfied with the small fry who comes through and communicates? Why not talk to some big guns, Jesus, Buddha, Mohammed, Socrates, Plato, Karl Marx, Tolstoy, Maslow, Jung, etc. people who were, or were considered by many, to be experts in their fields?

Why channel an angel or archangel when there is any number of past human spiritual people, saints, popes, lamas, zen masters, etc. which should be able to give us some good insights, considering that they were here and now are there?

Left Behind
12-12-2011, 02:23 AM
Because Spiritualistic mediumship doesn't work that way.

The medium doesn't "call up" spirits, who are thereby obliged to communicate.

The medium can only act as just that - a "medium", as in "media": a point of contact and message transit for those spirits who want to reach the medium, with a message for the medium, or for someone else.

Jim

deepsea
12-12-2011, 07:14 AM
I'm afraid with spirit,it's who they can bring through,not who we would like.
Pity really.
:smile:

glenos
12-12-2011, 07:39 AM
Dawn, as I read your post or rather just as I was reading it I saw this.. You were walking on what looked like a desert but more grainier and with what looked like little red sparkly bits with a few blacky-browny granuals mixed in. Very grainy and kinda dusty but large dusties if you will. You were quite a way into the distance. It didn't feel arrid.

G

mac
12-12-2011, 08:28 AM
"Let's assume that there is something in spiritualism and the 'other side' communication."


Somewhere it was mentioned that Spiritualism is about talking to the dead. As a Spiritualist who spends way too much of his time trying to explain 'stuff' I'm realising how inadequate the message of Spiritualism is at face value, but also how it reaches those who need it rather than those who have no need and little real interest.

Spiritualism isn't about speaking to the dead but that's the impression many people have. I have no data to substantiate what I'm now going to say, it's not a scientific evaluation and it's not what I usually do. I'm going to stick my neck out and say that most of those who approach Spiritualism in a serious way have been bereaved.

They come, often in distress, seeking reassurance that relatives or friends are not gone forever. It's they who have the best chance of understanding. The rest, for whom Spiritualism is just something to mock, or about which they feign interest, are much less likely to get anywhere.

Let me tell you what cynics/skeptics often say. "Oh they just want to believe - they're vulnerable and will grasp at any straw." But someone with experience and understanding can say. "Bereavement is often the only time when folk are reflective enough, open enough, for the message of survival to be deeply, seriously considered."

Take your choice - which camp are you in?

MMM
12-12-2011, 10:19 AM
'channeling' is term found more in the usa than in the uk
spiritualists do not 'channel' although a few a 'trance mediums' which is a seriously difficult aspect of mediumship to enter into and 'be good at'

re why spiirtualists do not speak to jesus, et al
demonstrations of mediumship are evidential in nature - with specific information not known to the medium about the spirit communicator which can be verified by the recipient . demonstrations of mediumship are uplifting and provide evidence that the spirit is 'alive' and still with the recipeint
what evidence supposedly 'channelled' through by jesus can be verified?

deepsea
12-12-2011, 10:28 AM
Let's assume that there is something in spiritualism and the 'other side' communication.

Why are we satisfied with the small fry who comes through and communicates? Why not talk to some big guns, Jesus, Buddha, Mohammed, Socrates, Plato, Karl Marx, Tolstoy, Maslow, Jung, etc. people who were, or were considered by many, to be experts in their fields?

Why channel an angel or archangel when there is any number of past human spiritual people, saints, popes, lamas, zen masters, etc. which should be able to give us some good insights, considering that they were here and now are there?


Might be small fry to you but it might be my parents or my grandson who passed at the 35 years......they're not small fry to me.:icon_frown:

mac
12-12-2011, 11:45 AM
"'channeling' is term found more in the usa than in the uk..."

This is the Spiritualism forum. Channelling isn't found in Modern Spiritualism but may be in the Spiritualism of the USA.

Channelling is often more the field of the so-called New Age movement where it may be attributed a high importance. Channelling sometimes appears to be personal communication between incarnate and ill-defined discarnate(s), a 'mentoring' of the incarnate. That's uncommon in Spiritualism.

Sometimes so-called channelling can have similarities to mediumship but mostly it doesn't appear similar to evidential mediumship.

deepsea
12-12-2011, 12:26 PM
Never knew that,Mac. Always thought a channeller meant the same as a medium.
:smile:

mac
12-12-2011, 12:37 PM
Never knew that,Mac. Always thought a channeller meant the same as a medium.
:smile:

You aren't on your own.....

deepsea
12-12-2011, 12:59 PM
Well,what's the difference between a channeller and medium?

Spirit connect with the medium to give messages to loved one.
Do channellers do the same?

Now I'm getting confused.....

MMM
12-12-2011, 01:19 PM
no channeling is more like trance mediumship but more new agish

read the last page

Lorraine Holloway-White
12-12-2011, 01:53 PM
Simple question?

Is Spiritualism regarded as a Religion?
If it is.......why isn't it included in the telephone directories under the heading of 'Religion'?
:confused:

Deepsea


It isn't a religion, it is a belief. I am friends with the president of our local spiritualist church who is also a minister there. I have many other people I know similar from around the world and they all say they are not a religion but have to say they are and that they believe in God as they want to be able to conduct marriages legally and to be able to do so, they have to say they believe in a Deity.
We have had long discussions about this as I said it was wrong and they insisted it was ok to do it but they still say if asked they are scientific churches and nothing to do with religion.
Hope that helps?
There are, however, Christian spiritualist churches who say they do believe in God, but again, their teachings are always purely in the SNU guidelines.

Lorraine Holloway-White
12-12-2011, 01:58 PM
no channeling is more like trance mediumship but more new agish

read the last page

no it isn't - the two are very different. You have obviously never witnessed either being done properly to say that and have never had it happen to you either. I channel and have never had trance, but one of the people in my Sensitives Development Group works in trance most times - naturally. It is the way they want her to work. They also channel through me as that is the way they want me to work at present. Both are used in a very different way.
There is nothing at all new ageish about it I can assure you and as a natural born medium, it is this sort of thing that happens to natural mediums quite a bit. Whereas what you see when trance is alleged to be done in most groups is totally fake and sad copies of the real thing. It is always obvious to a natural medium when this is happening even though most others are often taken in by it.
If anyone wants to DM me I will be more than happy to answer questions as there is much confusion in these matters due to so many strange teachings

MMM
12-12-2011, 02:06 PM
in the last page, i wrote that channeling and trance mediumship are different
Lorraine, you're a newbie here - how about reading the posts and the rules before giving off all these posts?
AND
Spiritualism is a RELIGION, PHILOSOPHY AND SCIENCE
It is a recognized bona fide religion

deepsea
12-12-2011, 02:06 PM
It isn't a religion, it is a belief. I am friends with the president of our local spiritualist church who is also a minister there. I have many other people I know similar from around the world and they all say they are not a religion but have to say they are and that they believe in God as they want to be able to conduct marriages legally and to be able to do so, they have to say they believe in a Deity.
We have had long discussions about this as I said it was wrong and they insisted it was ok to do it but they still say if asked they are scientific churches and nothing to do with religion.
Hope that helps?
There are, however, Christian spiritualist churches who say they do believe in God, but again, their teachings are always purely in the SNU guidelines.

Ah,getting the picture now.
I must belong to a Christian spiritualist church then in the area where I live.
They can conduct marriages and funerals also.
Their hymns are devoted to God and spiritualism.
I've just thought of the hymns they sing,and they are normal christian hymns,
Thanks so much for your help.

MMM
12-12-2011, 02:08 PM
trance mediums (and I'm talking SNU certified) are in a different league than 'channelers'
channelers can allow in any ET, angel, guide , self-proclaimed master, even Yoda and the fairies....trance mediums requires great training and dedication - no mere natural medium can do this

deepsea
12-12-2011, 02:09 PM
I want to say 'thank you' to all of you who have helped.
Finally getting the picture straight in my mind.
:D
Deepsea

MMM
12-12-2011, 02:15 PM
we now have total chaos and confusion
Christians believe in the divinity of christ and that jesus died for our sins - spiritualists don't = so there can be no 'christian spiritualists'
deepsea, tell me that you're loving this?
mac, i know, and glenos, will explode....

MMM
12-12-2011, 02:17 PM
saying you're a 'christian spiirtualist' is like saying i am 'jewish mormon'

deepsea
12-12-2011, 02:20 PM
trance mediums (and I'm talking SNU certified) are in a different league than 'channelers'
channelers can allow in any ET, angel, guide , self-proclaimed master, even Yoda and the fairies....trance mediums requires great training and dedication - no mere natural medium can do this

Thats correct,have read a fair bit about Trance mediums.
Also Direct voice mediums etc.

Why I was asking about channellers.:D

deepsea
12-12-2011, 02:20 PM
saying you're a 'christian spiirtualist' is like saying i am 'jewish mormon'

Oh my God! What a mixture!
:icon_eek:

deepsea
12-12-2011, 02:25 PM
Puts my head in my hands and cries.......:cool:

mac
12-12-2011, 03:28 PM
[quote=Lorraine Holloway-White]

It isn't a religion, Yes it is....it is a belief. No it isn't.... I am friends with the president of our local spiritualist church who is also a minister there. so? I have many other people I know similar from around the world and they all say they are not a religion Some people used to say the world was flat but that didn't mean it was - your friends can say whatever they choose, believe whatever they wish - that can't change the actuality.... but have to say they are and that they believe in God as they want to be able to conduct marriages legally and to be able to do so, they have to say they believe in a Deity. yadyadyady.....
We have had long discussions about this as I said it was wrong and they insisted it was ok to do it but they still say if asked they are scientific churches and nothing to do with religion. One thing you COULD help with - what's a scientific church?
Hope that helps? No It might help you but it won't help anyone who wants to know the facts....
There are, however, Christian spiritualist churches who say they do believe in God, but again, their teachings are always purely in the SNU guidelines.

mac
12-12-2011, 03:33 PM
no it isn't - the two are very different. You have obviously never witnessed either being done properly to say that and have never had it happen to you either. I channel and have never had trance, but one of the people in my Sensitives Development Group works in trance most times - naturally. It is the way they want her to work. They also channel through me as that is the way they want me to work at present. Both are used in a very different way.
There is nothing at all new ageish about it I can assure you and as a natural born medium, it is this sort of thing that happens to natural mediums quite a bit. Whereas what you see when trance is alleged to be done in most groups is totally fake and sad copies of the real thing. It is always obvious to a natural medium when this is happening even though most others are often taken in by it.
If anyone wants to DM me I will be more than happy to answer questions as there is much confusion in these matters due to so many strange teachings

Let's make it simple for you answer. You say you channel so what's 'channelling'? In your words, please, no links to Wikipedia etc no comparisons with anything else - just a few lines of simple explanation.

Then there'll be no confusion for any of us. :wink:

mac
12-12-2011, 03:39 PM
we now have total chaos and confusion
Christians believe in the divinity of christ and that jesus died for our sins - spiritualists don't = so there can be no 'christian spiritualists'
deepsea, tell me that you're loving this?
mac, i know, and glenos, will explode....

No explosion from me. :D Christian Spiritualism is a curious mix with conflicting principles. For me it isn't Spiritualism.

You explained things well other than when you said there can be no Christian Spiritualists. Folk can call follow any persuasion they choose and call themselves anything they like.

We can't change that by saying there's no such thing.

mac
12-12-2011, 03:41 PM
Puts my head in my hands and cries.......:cool:

why? .

deepsea
12-12-2011, 04:50 PM
why? .

Why? Cos I'm too tired to take everything in.
:glasses2:

mac
12-12-2011, 06:51 PM
This is the Spiritualism forum and discussing channelling is pointless in that context - it's not part of Modern Spiritualism.

A scout round will find threads, here or elsewhere, debating the differences between mediums psychics and sensitives, or mediumship and channelling.

Evidential mediumship is Modern Spiritualism's way of connecting incarnate individuals to their discarnate relatives and friends. (The type of mediumship doesn't really matter provided it furnishes acceptable evidence of details which demonstrate the survival of those in the latter category (discarnates) to those in the former one!!)

It's not mediumship if there isn't a go-between (the medium) facilitating transdimensional communication. It isn't evidential mediumship without acceptable evidence of identity along with information able to verified as supporting that identity etc.

In the context of this Spiritualism forum, information obtained from psychic/auric/Tarot reading et al is not mediumship.

Left Behind
12-12-2011, 07:54 PM
I'm going to stick my neck out and say that most of those who approach Spiritualism in a serious way have been bereaved.

They come, often in distress, seeking reassurance that relatives or friends are not gone forever. It's [I]they who have the best chance of understanding. The rest, for whom Spiritualism is just something to mock, or about which they feign interest, are much less likely to get anywhere.

Let me tell you what cynics/skeptics often say. "Oh they just want to believe - they're vulnerable and will grasp at any straw." But someone with experience and understanding can say. "Bereavement is often the only time when folk are reflective enough, open enough, for the message of survival to be deeply, seriously considered."

Take your choice - which camp are you in?

I'm with you, Mac. Hell, it's hard to convince people in their 80's to start making arrangements for their own funerals! How are people likely to develop/maintain serious efforts to reach the next world unless there is someone(s) there already, near and dear to them still on earth, that spurs them on to making the initial attempts?

Jim

Left Behind
12-12-2011, 07:55 PM
saying you're a 'christian spiirtualist' is like saying i am 'jewish mormon'

Do you know what word Mormons use to refer to non-Mormons? :smile:

Jim

Left Behind
12-12-2011, 07:57 PM
saying you're a 'christian spiirtualist' is like saying i am 'jewish mormon'

Why so? Isn't Christianity based on revelations from Spirit?

Jim

Left Behind
12-12-2011, 08:06 PM
No explosion from me. :D Christian Spiritualism is a curious mix with conflicting principles. For me it isn't Spiritualism.

You explained things well other than when you said there can be no Christian Spiritualists. Folk can call follow any persuasion they choose and call themselves anything they like.

We can't change that by saying there's no such thing.

Mac, I may be unusual, but I don't think I'm unique. I believe that Jesus Christ died for my sins, or died to do some wonderful think that benefitted me and everyone else.

I also believe that there's a place in the next world for me and everyone else, that's based not on anything Jesus did, nor on whether we "accept" him in any way, but is based purely on our own individual efforts.

I believed both these things before I ever heard of Spiritualism.

I accept that my two beliefs may well be illogical, but I also believe that we can never reduce religious faith or belief into strict logic.

So yes, I believe that there is such a thing as Christian Spiritualism.

Jim

mac
12-12-2011, 08:30 PM
Mac, I may be unusual, but I don't think I'm unique. I believe that Jesus Christ died for my sins, or died to do some wonderful think that benefitted me and everyone else.

I also believe that there's a place in the next world for me and everyone else, that's based not on anything Jesus did, nor on whether we "accept" him in any way, but is based purely on our own individual efforts.

I believed both these things before I ever heard of Spiritualism.

I accept that my two beliefs may well be illogical, but I also believe that we can never reduce religious faith or belief into strict logic.

So yes, I believe that there is such a thing as Christian Spiritualism.

Jim

It's not to me, Jim, that your remarks should be addressed.

It was MMM who suggested there's no such thing as Christian Spiritualism.

mac
13-12-2011, 11:44 AM
oops, double posted

mac
13-12-2011, 11:45 AM
"I believe that Jesus Christ died for my sins, or died to do some wonderful think that benefitted me and everyone else.

I also believe that there's a place in the next world for me and everyone else, that's based not on anything Jesus did, nor on whether we "accept" him in any way, but is based purely on our own individual efforts.

I believed both these things before I ever heard of Spiritualism.

I accept that my two beliefs may well be illogical, but I also believe that we can never reduce religious faith or belief into strict logic."

re the highlit words

I can't speak about those who hold religious faith or belief as I don't have either.

But my own persuasion leaves me without doubt that the application of logic is the only logical way to approach it. The instant that principle were suspended I'd be back to faith or belief or something else.

And I don't 'do' faith or belief or anything else....

deepsea
13-12-2011, 12:39 PM
Mac, I may be unusual, but I don't think I'm unique. I believe that Jesus Christ died for my sins, or died to do some wonderful think that benefitted me and everyone else.

I also believe that there's a place in the next world for me and everyone else, that's based not on anything Jesus did, nor on whether we "accept" him in any way, but is based purely on our own individual efforts.

I believed both these things before I ever heard of Spiritualism.

I accept that my two beliefs may well be illogical, but I also believe that we can never reduce religious faith or belief into strict logic.

So yes, I believe that there is such a thing as Christian Spiritualism.

Jim

i thought your way for a long time,Jim.
Now so many other beliefs,the mind becomes clogged.
Wondering what exactly is the straight path to take.
J.

Serenity Bear
13-12-2011, 02:22 PM
The straight path is the one that is right for you. It matters not what you call it, for all paths lead in the same direction, its the human being that has called them by different names.

deepsea
13-12-2011, 03:01 PM
The straight path is the one that is right for you. It matters not what you call it, for all paths lead in the same direction, its the human being that has called them by different names.

I know my straight path,Serenity.
The one I feel is right and comfortable for me.
:smile:

Enya
13-12-2011, 03:43 PM
I say that Spiritualism is (or could be or should be) a religion.

Spiritualism *is* a registered religion in the UK.

mac
13-12-2011, 04:44 PM
Spiritualism *is* a registered religion in the UK.

quite - I wonder how many times it has to be said? ad infinitum, perhaps.....

Enya
13-12-2011, 04:47 PM
Possibly, Mac!! :D Repeat after me... Spiritualism is a registered, recognised religion in the UK. Spiritualism is a registered, recognised religion in the UK. Spiritualism is a registered, recognised religion in the UK. Spiritualism is a registered, recognised religion in the UK. Spiritualism is a registered, recognised religion in the UK. Spiritualism is a registered, recognised religion in the UK. spiritualism is a registered, recognised religion in the UK.....

Heck, it's even on the BBC religions page!

mac
13-12-2011, 08:32 PM
Possibly, Mac!! :D Repeat after me... Spiritualism is a registered, recognised religion in the UK. Spiritualism is a registered, recognised religion in the UK. Spiritualism is a registered, recognised religion in the UK. Spiritualism is a registered, recognised religion in the UK. Spiritualism is a registered, recognised religion in the UK. Spiritualism is a registered, recognised religion in the UK. spiritualism is a registered, recognised religion in the UK.....

Heck, it's even on the BBC religions page!

It's hard to figure a way to make things any more simple....It's not only in the UK either but let's not complicate things. :wink:

Perhaps it's because there are so many misunderstandings about Spiritualism vs spirituality that folks just can't accept that the former is a religion and the latter is something else altogether?

But we'll just have to bash on, eh - keep saying the same old stuff and hope it'll eventually stick. :hug:

deepsea
13-12-2011, 09:17 PM
Awh,that's not nice.
:icon_frown:

Enya
13-12-2011, 09:46 PM
How so, Deepsea?

deepsea
13-12-2011, 10:07 PM
Are we that thick? :D
Just joking,Enya.
:hug3:

Enya
13-12-2011, 10:10 PM
Oh, duh. Yes, we *are* that thick... :D (using the royal 'we' here...)

pre-dawn
14-12-2011, 03:28 AM
Spiritualism *is* a registered religion in the UK.
But didn't someone say that this is based on a convenient lie so that they can perform marriages, etc? Does this only apply the the USA?
Are the UK spiritualist honest and the USA ones are not?

MMM
14-12-2011, 07:40 AM
'honest'? what do you mean by that?
Spiritualism is a religion in the usa - google 'national association of spiritualist churches'
spiritualist churches perform marriages , etc in the usa
honestly, any more research i do for this thread and i'll submit a bill.
thick? No, duncical, perhaps?

deepsea
14-12-2011, 07:42 AM
I've studied spiritualism for a while but must admit I am really none the wiser.
I understand the way of the subject of spiritualism but the actual pros and cons of the official side,I really haven't a clue.
:confused1:

psychoslice
14-12-2011, 07:49 AM
I've studied spiritualism for a while but must admit I am really none the wiser.
I understand the way of the subject of spiritualism but the actual pros and cons of the official side,I really haven't a clue.
:confused1:
Yea its best to keep away from any belief system, if you try to organize spirit or truth, you only end up killing it.

deepsea
14-12-2011, 08:33 AM
Yea its best to keep away from any belief system, if you try to organize spirit or truth, you only end up killing it.

It takes the gloss off the real meaning of spirit.
:smile:

psychoslice
14-12-2011, 08:36 AM
It takes the gloss off the real meaning of spirit.
:smile:
Yea you got it, be your own Guru, question everything until you cannot question anymore, after all the truth is only ever found within YOU.

aiden hall
21-12-2011, 11:58 AM
Within certain organisations Spiritualism is seen as a religion, a way of life and a science.
I myself see it as a way of life and a science. If you read many of the old books by Chan, White Eagle etc they all make a point that within the world of spirit there is no such thing as "religion. Infact religion is a man made concept. Many of the writings in all forms of religions have been writen by "man" and not Divine intervention. You could even point to the fact that for example the bible as been the cause of a group of innocent people (mediums, healers and just people that neighbours did not like etc) being put to death in the name of religion "Thou shalt not suffer a witch to live"
I personally see religion as a form of control. Being a Spiritualist to me is a way of life and a science.

mac
21-12-2011, 12:05 PM
quote=aiden hall

Within certain organisations Spiritualism is seen as a religion, a way of life and a science. Almost correct - Spiritualism is registered and officially recognised as a religion in the UK and elsewhere....
I myself see it as a way of life and a science. If you read many of the old books by Chan, White Eagle etc they all make a point that within the world of spirit there is no such thing as "religion. As we presently live in-the-body, rather than in the world of the spirit, the use of the word 'religion' is mostly influenced by humankind's understanding of it.... Infact religion is a man made concept. Many of the writings all of them.................form of control. Being a Spiritualist to me is a way of life and a science.

Are you a 'spiritualist' or are you a Spiritualist? If you have to ask what the difference is, you're likely to be the former......

deepsea
21-12-2011, 04:31 PM
Straight forward and simple.

A Spritiualist is one who believes in a life after death,a life which continues for ever more.

We do not worship a church or any God,,we are who we choose to be.

Left Behind
21-12-2011, 06:57 PM
Straight forward and simple.

A Spritiualist is one who believes in a life after death,a life which continues for ever more.

We do not worship a church or any God,,we are who we choose to be.

Hmmm. . . I'd add a thought there, Deepsea, that a Spiritualist is also one who believes that those still incarnate and those who have passed on to life after death are able to establish contact with each other. Also that a Spiritualist is one who seeks to facilitate those contacts.

MAC, what say ye? :smile:

Jim

mac
21-12-2011, 09:10 PM
Hmmm. . . I'd add a thought there, Deepsea, that a Spiritualist is also one who believes that those still incarnate and those who have passed on to life after death are able to establish contact with each other. Also that a Spiritualist is one who seeks to facilitate those contacts.

MAC, what say ye? :smile:

Jim

There's no 'official' definition. Mine is pretty simple. :smile:

I define a Spiritualist as someone who learns that life goes on beyond physical death and accepts that sometimes family or friends who have passed over may return to communicate, through a medium, to show they are still very much alive.....

Left Behind
21-12-2011, 09:48 PM
That sounds like a good definition. :smile:

Jim

deepsea
22-12-2011, 07:12 AM
I follow that!
:smile:
Deepsea

Kaausti
23-12-2011, 11:04 AM
Well, I have certainly learned a lot about Spiritualism from the ignorance in my original post about Spirituality. Conclusion? Yes, BIG DIFFERENCE.

The interesting thing is? I believe in the definitions of Spiritualism, always have.

Because it is very defined, my thoughts is that it should be listed under a "Religion".

Spiritualism as a term is not used commonly used in my parts of the World. However, there are Spiritualists that practice the mehods within the parameters of the beliefs of Spiritualism. The problem? Its usually for a fee. Native Spiritualists that are not for profit is a dying group of people and a far and few between.

Signed by: Probably the most Ignorant person on Spiritualism on Spiritual Forums. **shrugging shoulders**blushing** Peace.

deepsea
23-12-2011, 11:58 AM
Well, I have certainly learned a lot about Spiritualism from the ignorance in my original post about Spirituality. Conclusion? Yes, BIG DIFFERENCE.

The interesting thing is? I believe in the definitions of Spiritualism, always have.

Because it is very defined, my thoughts is that it should be listed under a "Religion".

Spiritualism as a term is not used commonly used in my parts of the World. However, there are Spiritualists that practice the mehods within the parameters of the beliefs of Spiritualism. The problem? Its usually for a fee. Native Spiritualists that are not for profit is a dying group of people and a far and few between.

Signed by: Probably the most Ignorant person on Spiritualism on Spiritual Forums. **shrugging shoulders**blushing** Peace.


:D
We all have to start somewhere,so no worries.
I was the same as you,totally ignorant of spiritualism.
best way to start,from rock bottom.
Deepsea

Kaausti
23-12-2011, 12:03 PM
:D
We all have to start somewhere,so no worries.
I was the same as you,totally ignorant of spiritualism.
best way to start,from rock bottom.
Deepsea

:redface:

Thanks, Can I still use.... :sign4:

...as an excuse?

...aaah...too late...

Spiritualism. Lesson Learned.

deepsea
23-12-2011, 12:07 PM
Um,well,for a while anyway......:rolleyes:

Kaausti
23-12-2011, 12:27 PM
I'll take it!

mac
23-12-2011, 12:29 PM
[quote=Kaausti

Well, I have certainly learned a lot about Spiritualism from the ignorance in my original post about Spirituality. Conclusion? Yes, BIG DIFFERENCE. That's good to hear. :smile:

The interesting thing is? I believe in the definitions of Spiritualism, always have. Spiritualism is very simple. Try to make it more than that and you'll likely find personal beliefs creeping in.

Because it is very defined, my thoughts is that it should be listed under a "Religion". Indeed it should because it is a registered, legally recognised, religion here in the UK and elsewhere.

Spiritualism as a term is not used commonly used in my parts of the World. However, there are Spiritualists that practice the mehods within the parameters of the beliefs of Spiritualism. The problem? Its usually for a fee. That doesn't have to be a problem because there is plenty of information freely available. Native Spiritualists that are not for profit is a dying group of people and a far and few between. Such is the way of the world but it can't prevent any individual subscribing to the notion of Spiritualism. BUT if you're looking for practitioners (mediums) who will demonstrate their gifts without charge you are likely to be disappointed - even here in the UK it's not widespread. Folk do what they do - some do not charge, some ask a small donation, some may ask their travelling costs, others make a very comfortable living by using their 'gifts'.

Signed by: Probably the most Ignorant person on Spiritualism on Spiritual Forums. On I'd disagree with you on that! But SF isn't the most informative place for those who would like to understand more about Spiritualism...:wink: :hug3:

Left Behind
23-12-2011, 03:54 PM
Probably the best way to differentiate Spiritualism from Spirituality is that Spirituality is the belief or practice of emphasizing the spiritual, as opposed to the material, aspects of man.

Spiritualism is the belief that the soul or spirit of man survives the death of the body, that it is possible for those still on earth to contact those who have passed beyond earthly life, and the practice of attempting to do so.

All Spiritualists are spiritual but not all spiritual people are Spiritualists.

Jim

mac
23-12-2011, 06:00 PM
Probably the best way to differentiate Spiritualism from Spirituality is that Spirituality is the belief or practice of emphasizing the spiritual, as opposed to the material, aspects of man.

Spiritualism is the belief that the soul or spirit of man survives the death of the body, that it is possible for those still on earth to contact those who have passed beyond earthly life, and the practice of attempting to do so.

All Spiritualists are spiritual but not all spiritual people are Spiritualists.

Jim
Some Spiritualists will disagree with, quote: "Spiritualism is the belief that the soul or spirit of man survives the death of the body..." Belief is for issues where evidence isn't available - Spiritualism has evidence of survival beyond death, hence belief isn't needed. Compare the belief that Jesus the Nazarene was the son of God and came that we be saved.

quote: "All Spiritualists are spiritual....." This is conjecture without a definition of what 'spiritual' implies.

The following doesn't strictly apply either, quote: "...that it is possible for those still on earth to contact those who have passed beyond earthly life...." I won't enlarge as I've already mentioned this aspect. The more one tries to define, the greater the risk of personal colouration.

KISS, I suggest, is better. Keep It Simple Sweetie :hug3:

mattie
03-01-2012, 09:29 AM
Wikipedia notes that Spiritualism is a belief system that the dead physical body’s nonphysical spirit has the ability to communicate w/ the living. Spiritualism reached its peak from the 1840s - 1920s in English speaking countries. Spiritualism was popular for about 1/2 a century. By the late 1880s the movement, which supported social activism w/ women’s rights & slavery abolition, was weakened due to medium fraud accusations.

Spiritualism’s beliefs (Principles) are, in general, that the spirit exists after the physical body’s death, a belief in spirit contact, personal responsibility, the spirit continues to learn & grow, a belief in God, & the natural world being an expression ‘Infinite Intelligence’ (God).
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spiritualism

In this list of Spiritualist churches worldwide (Google search), they are only listed in the UK, US, Canada, Australia, & New Zealand.
http://www.spiritualist.tv/churches/

Spiritualism churches are present in 26 of 50 US states. Directory of US Spiritualist churches:
http://www.nsac.org/Churches.aspx?id=4.0

glenos
03-01-2012, 10:00 AM
Unfortunately this is not a complete list of Spiritualist Churches in the UK. The first county I came to there was certainly two missing from the list with one that had been going for >60yrs. I'd take that list with a pinch of Siberia to be honest, but it does give you a rough idea even if it is a flawed one, as to how many there may be.

G

mac
03-01-2012, 11:49 AM
Wikipedia notes that Spiritualism is a belief system that the dead physical body’s nonphysical spirit has the ability to communicate w/ the living. Spiritualism reached its peak from the 1840s - 1920s in English speaking countries. Spiritualism was popular for about 1/2 a century. By the late 1880s the movement, which supported social activism w/ women’s rights & slavery abolition, was weakened due to medium fraud accusations.

Spiritualism’s beliefs (Principles) are, in general, that the spirit exists after the physical body’s death, a belief in spirit contact, personal responsibility, the spirit continues to learn & grow, a belief in God, & the natural world being an expression ‘Infinite Intelligence’ (God).
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spiritualism (http://www.spiritualforums.com/vb/redir.php?link=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.spiritualforums.co m%2Fvb%2Fredir.php%3Flink%3Dhttp%253A%252F%252Fwww .spiritualforums.com%252Fvb%252Fredir.php%253Flink %253Dhttp%25253A%25252F%25252Fen.wikipedia.org%252 52Fwiki%25252FSpiritualism)

In this list of Spiritualist churches worldwide (Google search), they are only listed in the UK, US, Canada, Australia, & New Zealand.
http://www.spiritualist.tv/churches/ (http://www.spiritualforums.com/vb/redir.php?link=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.spiritualforums.co m%2Fvb%2Fredir.php%3Flink%3Dhttp%253A%252F%252Fwww .spiritualforums.com%252Fvb%252Fredir.php%253Flink %253Dhttp%25253A%25252F%25252Fwww.spiritualist.tv% 25252Fchurches%25252F)

Spiritualism churches are present in 26 of 50 US states. Directory of US Spiritualist churches:
http://www.nsac.org/Churches.aspx?id=4.0 (http://www.spiritualforums.com/vb/redir.php?link=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.spiritualforums.co m%2Fvb%2Fredir.php%3Flink%3Dhttp%253A%252F%252Fwww .spiritualforums.com%252Fvb%252Fredir.php%253Flink %253Dhttp%25253A%25252F%25252Fwww.nsac.org%25252FC hurches.aspx%25253Fid%25253D4.0)
Some may find Wikipedia authoritative but others approach with caution what's written there. :wink:

My preference is to speak about only what I understand and to question others with a wider understanding.

Pagandell
04-01-2012, 02:50 AM
Probably the best way to differentiate Spiritualism from Spirituality is that Spirituality is the belief or practice of emphasizing the spiritual, as opposed to the material, aspects of man. Spiritualism is the belief that the soul or spirit of man survives the death of the body, that it is possible for those still on earth to contact those who have passed beyond earthly life, and the practice of attempting to do so.All Spiritualists are spiritual but not all spiritual people are Spiritualists. Jim
Hi.
I allways say to people im into spiritual stuff, meaning I dont follow eny particular religion. :cool:
I believe spirit is guiding me now as I write. :angel11:
The connotation of the word religion to me suggests rules, a hierarchy system and a very staid situation. :confused1:
Im not saying you dont get that in spiritualist churches either :angel1: .......

Sarian
04-01-2012, 02:52 AM
We were always cautioned about Wikipedia in college by most professors as it wasn't always accurate and told also that it could be 'manipulated' easily which causes a lot of inaccuracies. We weren't even allowed to use it as a reference source, which was fine with me, because I never liked it.

mac
04-01-2012, 08:42 AM
For latecomers to this thread, and anyone else unfamiliar with the subject, I've reproduced the following simple explanation. It relates mostly to the UK and other countries may show differences.



Spiritualism is an officially registered, legally recognised, religion in a number of countries. It's also been described as a philosophy and a science.

Adherents of its teachings and guidance will often refer to themselves as Spiritualists. Some will be regular members of a church or centre. Others will rarely, or never, be seen at one.

Spiritualism (or Modern Spiritualism to signify its most-recent appearance) asks no belief or faith. It teaches that we all survive physical death into continuing life elsewhere. Abundant evidence of that has been provided through mediumship for over a century.

A medium is someone who facilitates communication between those alive here in this dimension and others who are still alive but in the 'spirit' dimensions. Where evidence of identity is obtained by a medium - as for example from a deceased relative or friend - it may be termed evidential mediumship.

Other mediums have facilitated communications from spiritually-evolved teachers and guides. Their guidance has provided a framework of understanding about what happens after death.

Teachings have been widely recorded in books and some were recorded electronically at the time they were given.

deepsea
04-01-2012, 02:13 PM
Thank you,Mac.

Very thoroughly stated and true to the last word.

Deepsea

mac
09-01-2012, 02:18 PM
Thank you,Mac.

Very thoroughly stated and true to the last word.

Deepsea

I try my best....:redface:

deepsea
09-01-2012, 06:17 PM
Indeed you do.

I'm so sorry,Mac.

:hug3:

mysticalfocus
26-01-2012, 07:45 AM
The National Spiritualist Association of Churches defines it as 'a science, a philosophy and a religion'.

mysticalfocus
26-01-2012, 09:51 AM
Some may find Wikipedia authoritative but others approach with caution what's written there. :wink:



Excellent point. I tend to use Wikipedia as a kind of springboard into different areas. I think it's best to approach any piece of Wikipedia with a firm 'research' question in mind and to take from the article that information of most use to you before widening your search; as you state, there are those who (mistakenly, I think) treat the site as authoritative when it can be far from such. But nonetheless, it is a fantastic resource.

deepsea
26-01-2012, 01:10 PM
So,have we all come to the conclusion that Spiritualism is counted as a religion?
:D
Deepsea

mac
26-01-2012, 02:32 PM
So,have we all come to the conclusion that Spiritualism is counted as a religion?
:D
Deepsea

I didn't need to reach that conclusion - I came to the thread already knowing it....:hug2::D:wink:

It was useful, though, to have someone else point out that the NSAC describes it in such a way. Appropriate, too, as Modern Spiritualism has its roots in Hydesville, New York, and much of the dissent on this issue came from members in the US.

Left Behind
26-01-2012, 05:06 PM
Hi.
I allways say to people im into spiritual stuff, meaning I dont follow eny particular religion. :cool:
I believe spirit is guiding me now as I write. :angel11:
The connotation of the word religion to me suggests rules, a hierarchy system and a very staid situation. :confused1:
Im not saying you dont get that in spiritualist churches either :angel1: .......

From your statement, you're saying that you are spiritual, meaning that things of the spirit are important in your life.

I can't tell from your statement whether or not you're a Spiritualist.

Most spiritual people aren't Spiritualists.

Jim

Left Behind
26-01-2012, 05:10 PM
So,have we all come to the conclusion that Spiritualism is counted as a religion?
:D
Deepsea

I agree that Spiritualism is a religion. For some people, it is THEIR religion.

But there are also people who consider themselves adherents of another religion - or of no religion - who engage in Spiritualistic practices.

Jim

Left Behind
26-01-2012, 05:19 PM
I didn't need to reach that conclusion - I came to the thread already knowing it....:hug2::D:wink:

It was useful, though, to have someone else point out that the NSAC describes it in such a way. Appropriate, too, as Modern Spiritualism has its roots in Hydesville, New York, and much of the dissent on this issue came from members in the US.

Mac, how would you classify someone who regards himself as a Christian, or a follower of some other religion other than Spiritualism, but who also advocates or engages in Spiritualistic practices?

Jim

mac
26-01-2012, 06:34 PM
Mac, how would you classify someone who regards himself as a Christian, or a follower of some other religion other than Spiritualism, but who also advocates or engages in Spiritualistic practices?

Jim
a Christian Spiritualist? That's what such folk may call themselves.... Don't know if there's a category for any other religion.

It's pretty easy for me, Jim. Spiritualism is fundamentally the understanding that life goes on beyond one's physical death and that through mediumship, those we call 'dead' may return to show they're still very much alive. If someone runs with that I don't much care what they call themself. Beyond those fundamentals I'd have to consider what's being espoused....

I've not responded to "....advocates or engages in Spiritualistic practices" as I don't have a clue what they are. I don't advocate or engage yet I see myself as a dyed-in-the-wool Spiritualist......

Toolite
30-01-2012, 02:25 PM
Simple question?

Is Spiritualism regarded as a Religion?
If it is.......why isn't it included in the telephone directories under the heading of 'Religion'?
:confused:

Deepsea

I believe centuries ago Spiritualism was the only religion but, as man moved away from the Spirit because he couldnt duplicate or purchase an experience man began to teach their personal understanding because it made more sense but, man's sense is not Spiritual.. Centuries ago we knew from birth that we could communicate with the universe and was stronger and over centuries and centuries we were unprogrammed spiritually and thats why so many dont believe souls walk the earth or even how souls currently get in that situation due to hidden truth.

All The Glory Belongs To God Forever!

mac
30-01-2012, 03:52 PM
"I believe centuries ago Spiritualism was the only religion but, as man moved away from the Spirit because he couldnt duplicate or purchase an experience man began to teach their personal understanding because it made more sense but, man's sense is not Spiritual.. Centuries ago we knew from birth that we could communicate with the universe and was stronger and over centuries and centuries we were unprogrammed spiritually and thats why so many dont believe souls walk the earth or even how souls currently get in that situation due to hidden truth."

"Centuries ago we knew from birth that we could communicate with the universe....." It's a romantic notion but because we don't have any reliable, authenticated records of humankind's spiritual status all that time ago, it can't ever be anything other than a belief, idea or notion....

Not saying it's wrong, only that it can't be shown to be right.

deepsea
30-01-2012, 04:43 PM
I believe centuries ago Spiritualism was the only religion but, as man moved away from the Spirit because he couldnt duplicate or purchase an experience man began to teach their personal understanding because it made more sense but, man's sense is not Spiritual.. Centuries ago we knew from birth that we could communicate with the universe and was stronger and over centuries and centuries we were unprogrammed spiritually and thats why so many dont believe souls walk the earth or even how souls currently get in that situation due to hidden truth.

All The Glory Belongs To God Forever!

Don't quite understand how spiritualism was the only religion,Toolite.
Can you explain that me,please.
Was Spiritualism that ancient then?
Interesting concept.

Left Behind
30-01-2012, 06:17 PM
I believe centuries ago Spiritualism was the only religion but, as man moved away from the Spirit because he couldnt duplicate or purchase an experience man began to teach their personal understanding because it made more sense but, man's sense is not Spiritual.. Centuries ago we knew from birth that we could communicate with the universe and was stronger and over centuries and centuries we were unprogrammed spiritually and thats why so many dont believe souls walk the earth or even how souls currently get in that situation due to hidden truth.

All The Glory Belongs To God Forever!

Deepsea, I'll bet that there isn't any category as "Religion" in your telephone directory: but that if you look under "Churches", you will find Spiritualist churches listed.

Toolite, there is much fod for thought in your statement! I believe that there's been an inverse correlation between mankind's progress in the scientific-material realm, and the spiritual one.

Many believe this is why so many Guides are American Indians: they lived a life more in harmony with nature and with spirit than did the more materially advanced Europeans who displaced them.

Toolite
01-02-2012, 06:54 PM
"I believe centuries ago Spiritualism was the only religion but, as man moved away from the Spirit because he couldnt duplicate or purchase an experience man began to teach their personal understanding because it made more sense but, man's sense is not Spiritual.. Centuries ago we knew from birth that we could communicate with the universe and was stronger and over centuries and centuries we were unprogrammed spiritually and thats why so many dont believe souls walk the earth or even how souls currently get in that situation due to hidden truth."

"Centuries ago we knew from birth that we could communicate with the universe....." It's a romantic notion but because we don't have any reliable, authenticated records of humankind's spiritual status all that time ago, it can't ever be anything other than a belief, idea or notion....

Not saying it's wrong, only that it can't be shown to be right.




sure we do... the cave by the dead sea. its written and we can date the language written back to centuries and centuries and its not on paper. written in stone.

All The Glory Belongs To God Forever!

Toolite
01-02-2012, 07:04 PM
Don't quite understand how spiritualism was the only religion,Toolite.
Can you explain that me,please.
Was Spiritualism that ancient then?
Interesting concept.

Everything thing or belief comes from somewhere.. if you look at all religions they all will have the same common factor in all religions and thats because the truth is the truth regardless of beliefs and culture.
Connecting in spirit to each other and animals is nothing new under the sun each religion has taught you to connect to something and a name is just a name..but, again we get caught in names titles ect.. vs lesson thats being taught.. some will say he did this to help the people not knowing He was template of the level that we could achieve..

We spirituality was the first because we can see it now in the afterlife that truth never dies or be hidden it surfaces..lol...

Once again this is just my opinions and views that I am happy to share.

All The Glory Belongs To God Forever!

deepsea
01-02-2012, 09:22 PM
Everything thing or belief comes from somewhere.. if you look at all religions they all will have the same common factor in all religions and thats because the truth is the truth regardless of beliefs and culture.
Connecting in spirit to each other and animals is nothing new under the sun each religion has taught you to connect to something and a name is just a name..but, again we get caught in names titles ect.. vs lesson thats being taught.. some will say he did this to help the people not knowing He was template of the level that we could achieve..

We spirituality was the first because we can see it now in the afterlife that truth never dies or be hidden it surfaces..lol...

Once again this is just my opinions and views that I am happy to share.

All The Glory Belongs To God Forever!

You said what I was thinking a while ago.
Religion,all religions stem from the same source.
A higher being......Right?

mac
01-02-2012, 09:30 PM
sure we do... the cave by the dead sea. its written and we can date the language written back to centuries and centuries and its not on paper. written in stone.

All The Glory Belongs To God Forever!

Sure we do what?

Serenity69
01-02-2012, 11:35 PM
I found most of the mediums were rubbish...

They usually went to the eldest people and said things like i've got a John(Nearly everyone knows someone called John), he says he had chest pains...

I only ever met one proper medium, she gave messages to everybody...

She said i had just moved into a flat, which was totally correct...

Real mediums are very rare...

mac
02-02-2012, 12:17 AM
I found most of the mediums were rubbish...

They usually went to the eldest people and said things like i've got a John(Nearly everyone knows someone called John), he says he had chest pains...

I only ever met one proper medium, she gave messages to everybody...

She said i had just moved into a flat, which was totally correct...

Real mediums are very rare...

"She said i had just moved into a flat, which was totally correct..." And that could just have been psychic reading - not necessarily mediumship....

It very much depends what folk mean by 'mediums' and by 'mediumship'....Good, evidential mediumship may not be easy to find nowadays.

Left Behind
02-02-2012, 02:53 AM
Mac, you've been involved with Spiritualism for a long time. What sort of strongly evidential messages have you received or observed over the years?

Jim

mac
02-02-2012, 03:57 AM
Mac, you've been involved with Spiritualism for a long time. What sort of strongly evidential messages have you received or observed over the years?

Jim

Me, Jim? You're asking the wrong guy.....:wink: Not a single one.

Left Behind
02-02-2012, 04:07 AM
Me, Jim? You're asking the wrong guy.....:wink: Not a single one.

Pshaw! :D You're just being modest, and playing mum, Mac!

Jim

glenos
02-02-2012, 06:18 AM
A simple one -- I'm in church.. wearing jeans and a red jumper. "Can I come to the gentleman with the red pullover? I have a man here, about five feet eight, and wearing a cardigan. I get a strangling sensation in my throat. Ooh, I can smell an oil or something, hold on I have smelt this before. It's cutting fluid, the stuff they use with lathes. Can you place him please?"

Errm, well yeah I could. My old dad was five feet eight, he 'died' with throat cancer, and funny enough he whiffed of cutting fluid 24/7 being an engineer, his hair, his clothes, his hands. Oh and his old beige cardigan that he always seemed to wear.

That was a fourty year ago example. I had never met the medium before nor knew anyone who knew them at that particular time.

The best was my dad coming through whilst sitting with Leslie Flint. That one blew my socks off!

G

Toolite
02-02-2012, 03:08 PM
You said what I was thinking a while ago.
Religion,all religions stem from the same source.
A higher being......Right?


Yes I agree a higher being.. I know the Higher Beings name is not God but, He knows that Im learning and I dont think names are important just to humans because we give everything a name..lol... Is there anything you can think of that we commonmly leave out of spirituality but, its included in spirituality..

All The Glory Belongs To God Forever!

Toolite
02-02-2012, 03:14 PM
Sure we do what?


its not my intention or agenda to reveal or undo certain things. I come with good intentions because I know everything will be in its proper place in the end.

so this leads to a question I have for you. What is the negative effect that could be a factor if people found out that spirituality was the first religion?

All The Glory Belongs To God Forever!

mac
02-02-2012, 03:39 PM
its not my intention or agenda to reveal or undo certain things. I come with good intentions because I know everything will be in its proper place in the end.

so this leads to a question I have for you. What is the negative effect that could be a factor if people found out that spirituality was the first religion?

All The Glory Belongs To God Forever!

what?????????

mac
02-02-2012, 03:48 PM
Pshaw! :D You're just being modest, and playing mum, Mac!

Jim

I rarely speak much about myself, Jim - I don't see myself as interesting.

When I write on forum boards I stick just to certain ones where I feel I have something relevant to say. (I also hope to learn from what others have to say.)

If something personal can be used beneficially (neonatal death issues for example) I will then use explain my personal experiences but otherwise I keep myself in the background.

Toolite
02-02-2012, 03:50 PM
what?????????


will there be a negative effect on individuals minds if they were to believe spirituality was the first religion?

All The Glory Belongs To God Forever!

mac
02-02-2012, 03:52 PM
". Is there anything you can think of that we commonmly leave out of spirituality but, its included in spirituality.."

As so often we slip out of Spiritualism into spirituality....as if they're the same field.

mac
02-02-2012, 03:52 PM
will there be a negative effect on individuals minds if they were to believe spirituality was the first religion?

All The Glory Belongs To God Forever!
spirituality?????? Is/was that a religion?

Toolite
02-02-2012, 03:58 PM
". Is there anything you can think of that we commonmly leave out of spirituality but, its included in spirituality.."

As so often we slip out of Spiritualism into spirituality....as if they're the same field.

can you recap the difference between spiritualism and spirituality in your words?

All The Glory belongs To God Forever!

mac
02-02-2012, 04:03 PM
can you recap the difference between spiritualism and spirituality in your words?

All The Glory belongs To God Forever!

I'm not playing this game any longer today :hug2: - you know we've been here before and I'm just going on a training run in the glorious Arizona sunshine instead. :hug:

Much more fruitful! :smile:

Toolite
02-02-2012, 04:07 PM
spirituality?????? Is/was that a religion?


I dont believe in religions period and I try to use updated terms best I can. Spiritual ways and path and spiritual gifts is it. Being in spirit period.. everything happens in the realm period.. we walk in the realm and earth at the same time period.. all my answers would be " in the spirit" but, I am trying to learn the all these terms. so if I misuse a term then let me know.. lol.

All The Glory Belongs To God Forever!

Toolite
02-02-2012, 04:10 PM
I'm not playing this game any longer today :hug2: - you know we've been here before and I'm just going on a training run in the glorious Arizona sunshine instead. :hug:

Much more fruitful! :smile:


seriously.. maybe someone else wants to answer the question.. Have fun Mac!

All The Glory Belongs To God Forever!

deepsea
02-02-2012, 04:30 PM
Yes I agree a higher being.. I know the Higher Beings name is not God but, He knows that Im learning and I dont think names are important just to humans because we give everything a name..lol... Is there anything you can think of that we commonmly leave out of spirituality but, its included in spirituality..

All The Glory Belongs To God Forever!

You have me there,what do we leave out of spirituality that is already there?

mac
02-02-2012, 05:08 PM
I dont believe in religions period and I try to use updated terms best I can. Spiritual ways and path and spiritual gifts is it. Being in spirit period.. everything happens in the realm period.. we walk in the realm and earth at the same time period.. all my answers would be " in the spirit" but, I am trying to learn the all these terms. so if I misuse a term then let me know.. lol.

All The Glory Belongs To God Forever!

I speak only what I know about and ask questions about what I don't....

You know nothing about Spiritualism so anything further would be a pointless dialogue.

Left Behind
03-02-2012, 04:55 AM
A simple one -- I'm in church.. wearing jeans and a red jumper. "Can I come to the gentleman with the red pullover? I have a man here, about five feet eight, and wearing a cardigan. I get a strangling sensation in my throat. Ooh, I can smell an oil or something, hold on I have smelt this before. It's cutting fluid, the stuff they use with lathes. Can you place him please?"

Errm, well yeah I could. My old dad was five feet eight, he 'died' with throat cancer, and funny enough he whiffed of cutting fluid 24/7 being an engineer, his hair, his clothes, his hands. Oh and his old beige cardigan that he always seemed to wear.

That was a fourty year ago example. I had never met the medium before nor knew anyone who knew them at that particular time.

The best was my dad coming through whilst sitting with Leslie Flint. That one blew my socks off!

G

Sounds HIGHLY evidential to me! :icon_eek:

Toolite
03-02-2012, 01:27 PM
I speak only what I know about and ask questions about what I don't....

You know nothing about Spiritualism so anything further would be a pointless dialogue.


Your statement conflicts itself when it comes to others then.. I asked you to provide your definition of spiritualism vs spirituality and you thought I was playing a game.. umm. I googled it thanks Mac..lol. Its important to share information with those who seek it from you.. I guess I dont consider spiritualism as a religion and I say that because when I think of religion.. religion has boundaries and limits and "The Spirit" has no limit or boundaries. Religion is similiar to a club where you invite individuals to join and sometimes theres a membership fee. Also in that club there is certain rules and regulations which equates to a religions beliefs and the difference with spirituality is that God selects the members and there are no certain rules or limits just look at all that hold the gift. Same gift but, used in different ways and to certain levels and no one decides to what level that gift is administered but, God/Higher Being. In a club if you dont follow the rules or think like your club members you can be kicked out but, with God you are never kicked out but, made stronger and wiser to life.

Just my views.

All The Glory Belongs To God Forever!

Toolite
03-02-2012, 01:33 PM
You have me there,what do we leave out of spirituality that is already there?


Just wondering if I've I missed something I know in the realm theres no secrets and its limitless to what can be done and I was just wondering..

All The Glory Belongs To God Forever!

MMM
03-02-2012, 01:51 PM
spiritualism is a recognized religion (google it if this is new to you) - spirituality is not
that is the difference between the two
this was written for those who are truly interested in a dialogue - as in speaking in coherent language, then listen objectively to what others are saying without judging others
it is somewhat insulting not to recognize Spiritualism as a religion - especially on a forum dedicated to posts about Spiritualism under the RELIGION board - Like saying Catholicism is not a religion....

mac
03-02-2012, 02:01 PM
Your statement conflicts itself when it comes to others then.. I asked you to provide your definition of spiritualism vs spirituality and you thought I was playing a game.. umm. I googled it thanks Mac..lol. Its important to share information with those who seek it from you.. I guess I dont consider spiritualism as a religion and I say that because when I think of religion.. religion has boundaries and limits and "The Spirit" has no limit or boundaries. Religion is similiar to a club where you invite individuals to join and sometimes theres a membership fee. Also in that club there is certain rules and regulations which equates to a religions beliefs and the difference with spirituality is that God selects the members and there are no certain rules or limits just look at all that hold the gift. Same gift but, used in different ways and to certain levels and no one decides to what level that gift is administered but, God/Higher Being. In a club if you dont follow the rules or think like your club members you can be kicked out but, with God you are never kicked out but, made stronger and wiser to life.

Just my views.

All The Glory Belongs To God Forever!

We've been through it all before as well you know......

Toolite
03-02-2012, 03:16 PM
We've been through it all before as well you know......


:hug2: love and light.. i love that saying..

All The Glory Belongs To God Forever!

Toolite
03-02-2012, 03:29 PM
spiritualism is a recognized religion (google it if this is new to you) - spirituality is not
that is the difference between the two
this was written for those who are truly interested in a dialogue - as in speaking in coherent language, then listen objectively to what others are saying without judging others
it is somewhat insulting not to recognize Spiritualism as a religion - especially on a forum dedicated to posts about Spiritualism under the RELIGION board - Like saying Catholicism is not a religion....


It was not my intentions to offend anyone.. so I apologize if anyone feels or felt that way.. I see that I see spiritualism as something greater.. as the truth so then how do you put the truth in a category.. But. I will be exiting this post because its getting rough... I thought you can post your opinion or views but, I see only to a certain degree.. interesting.

All The Glory Belongs To God Forever!

mac
03-02-2012, 05:34 PM
"I thought you can post your opinion or views but, I see only to a certain degree.."

Of course anyone can post their opinions or views about anything anywhere and they will be challenged when they're wrong or inappropriate - the basis of forum interchanges...

Continuing to say those same, or similar, things will result in much the same outcomes.

Pagandell
04-02-2012, 01:18 AM
From your statement, you're saying that you are spiritual, meaning that things of the spirit are important in your life.
I can't tell from your statement whether or not you're a Spiritualist.
Most spiritual people aren't Spiritualists.
Jim
Sorry I took so long with reply.
I have received some amassing stuff from a few very different kinds of creeds.
Where do I start :icon_geek:
Some people may feel they need to just stick with one faith, but thats not for me im allways searching and learning on the way to who knows :cool:
And thats why I like it here, all the stuff im into under one roof. :hug3:

Left Behind
04-02-2012, 01:38 AM
Sorry I took so long with reply.
I have received some amassing stuff from a few very different kinds of creeds.
Where do I start :icon_geek:
Some people may feel they need to just stick with one faith, but thats not for me im allways searching and learning on the way to who knows :cool:
And thats why I like it here, all the stuff im into under one roof. :hug3:

But the essence of SpiritualISM is contact with discarnate spirits: those in the next life. "The dead", in common parlance.

Jim

Pagandell
04-02-2012, 01:58 AM
But the essence of SpiritualISM is contact with discarnate spirits: those in the next life. "The dead", in common parlance.

Jim
Have you read Two Worlds the magazine for spiritualists I was reading it 4 yrs ago and thought it was realy cool :smile:

mac
04-02-2012, 03:47 AM
Sorry I took so long with reply.
I have received some amassing stuff from a few very different kinds of creeds.
Where do I start :icon_geek:
Some people may feel they need to just stick with one faith, but thats not for me im allways searching and learning on the way to who knows :cool:
And thats why I like it here, all the stuff im into under one roof. :hug3:
Didn't remember that you'd written anything before....

Your approach is fine if that's how you like things.

But it can also mean you might become totally confused by all the 'stuff' you're hearing and not really understand any of it in depth. This is the 'Spiritualism' forum and what we talk about here is very simple with nothing amazing except for the story of how we survive physical death and live on elsewhere.

In other faiths, religions, beliefs you'll hear all manner of sexy stuff that may appeal to you, may seem fantastical and exciting but may I offer a suggestion? Don't simply take all of it on face value. Question, question, question until you're confident that what you've learned is accurate and authentic and not simply someone's personal beliefs and desires.

Left Behind
04-02-2012, 05:30 AM
Have you read Two Worlds the magazine for spiritualists I was reading it 4 yrs ago and thought it was realy cool :smile:

I just recently started subscribing to it: am currently finishing up the February issue. A great periodical! :wink:

Jim

deepsea
04-02-2012, 07:29 AM
A great magazine,Jim.
Lots of interesting topics in there.

(if only there were less adverts included).:smile:

mac
04-02-2012, 01:23 PM
A great magazine,Jim.
Lots of interesting topics in there.

(if only there were less adverts included).:smile:

But like many periodicals, adverts help pay for the production costs and help keep the price down. It's perhaps a pity that there aren't more.

deepsea
04-02-2012, 02:36 PM
I would rather pay more,Mac and less adverts.
It is cheap at the price now.

Look at the price of magazines now,over £2 for a woman's periodical magazine and not much more in there than Two Worlds.

Left Behind
04-02-2012, 03:45 PM
The bad thing about Two World's adverts is that they're the same every month! :D

deepsea
04-02-2012, 06:16 PM
The bad thing about Two World's adverts is that they're the same every month! :D

:D You have a point there,Jim.
They get boring after a while.
No variety at all.

Left Behind
04-02-2012, 08:20 PM
:D You have a point there,Jim.
They get boring after a while.
No variety at all.

And they're even on the same pages every month. :D

Jim

mac
04-02-2012, 10:33 PM
The bad thing about Two World's adverts is that they're the same every month! :D

They get a rate for an each-month insertion of the church details. Pity, in some ways, that other churches don't also advertise but those who buy Two Worlds mostly already know about the spooks and their local Spiritualist churches anyway...

Left Behind
05-02-2012, 01:13 AM
The ads make me envious, though: we don't have a fraction of the Spiritualist resources in the US that you do in the UK.

glenos
05-02-2012, 07:42 AM
Jim, yes compared to other places it is huge over here. There are about five 'churches' within say 20 miles of me. Depending on the mediums working there is often standing room only. New old faces, new young faces, faces of different colours. Healing groups are growing in number also. Leastways in my neck of the woods they are.

G

Left Behind
05-02-2012, 04:07 PM
Great to hear that, Glenos! :smile:

In the US, you'll find 1 or 2 Spiritualist churches in a major city like New York or Chicago or Los Angeles - laregely because there aren't many things that you won't find 1 or 2 of in these places :D - and then you'll find a little congregation, here and there.

Pagandell
11-02-2012, 09:35 PM
Didn't remember that you'd written anything before....
Your approach is fine if that's how you like things.
But it can also mean you might become totally confused by all the 'stuff' you're hearing and not really understand any of it in depth. This is the 'Spiritualism' forum and what we talk about here is very simple with nothing amazing except for the story of how we survive physical death and live on elsewhere.
In other faiths, religions, beliefs you'll hear all manner of sexy stuff that may appeal to you, may seem fantastical and exciting but may I offer a suggestion? Don't simply take all of it on face value. Question, question, question until you're confident that what you've learned is accurate and authentic and not simply someone's personal beliefs and desires.

Im totaly confused by your words, maby you have not seen visions or been enlightend, dont know whot your saying sounds negative you confuse me :icon_frown: .

Pagandell
11-02-2012, 10:04 PM
I just recently started subscribing to it: am currently finishing up the February issue. A great periodical! :wink:
Jim

I got a very sincere vibe when I was reading it, and a lot of stuff fell into place, I love it when that happens :cool: .....

mac
11-02-2012, 11:16 PM
Im totaly confused by your words, maby you have not seen visions or been enlightend, dont know whot your saying sounds negative you confuse me :icon_frown: .

confused?

I don't know what confused you because you haven't said.

I work on a very simple process - KISS - Keep It Simple Sweetie. Simple words, simple ideas. If you want to understand anything I've always found it's best to take small steps and keep away from fantasy. Keep your feet firmly on the ground and ask as many questions as you can think of about all the subjects you don't know about.

If you read what mac writes generally you'll find it's addressed to the points raised in other folk's postings.

If that's negative then so be it.