PDA

View Full Version : Is a male witch actually a warlock?


Neville
09-12-2011, 05:41 PM
Not the term that has the derision attached to it of old(oath breaker) rather something like this:

http://www.boudicca.de/warlock-e.htm

Occultist
09-12-2011, 07:25 PM
No a warlock is not a male witch. Male witch is a Male witch the word Warlock actually means Oathbreaker.

norseman
09-12-2011, 07:42 PM
Warlock or Warloch as Oathbreaker is correct but not in the way you think. It was a derogatory word applied by the christian church to priests who were actually "hidden" Cunning Folk - this was a relatively common practice of the Cunning Folk - hiding in plain sight - one of the reasons they escaped the excesses of the witch hunt. The other [main] reason being that they were shielded by the rural communities they served because they were too useful.
So, the oath that was being broken was their oath as a priest. :smile:

Neville
09-12-2011, 08:05 PM
Warlock it is then:smile:

Occultist
09-12-2011, 10:07 PM
Warlock or Warloch as Oathbreaker is correct but not in the way you think. It was a derogatory word applied by the christian church to priests who were actually "hidden" Cunning Folk - this was a relatively common practice of the Cunning Folk - hiding in plain sight - one of the reasons they escaped the excesses of the witch hunt. The other [main] reason being that they were shielded by the rural communities they served because they were too useful.
So, the oath that was being broken was their oath as a priest. :smile:
Occult means hidden Warlock means Oathbreaker male Witch's that I have spoken too do not like this label sadly on a popular 90's TV show called Charmed they all called Male Witch's Warlocks.
I am a Witch my family is from ayrshire scotland I was taught the ways of Olde and darken path that my gma and her mother and her mother before kept Occult<- hidden. Again this is a label but some men who are witch's thinks the term is derogatory.

Neville
09-12-2011, 10:51 PM
Hello Occultist,

I am a little saddened that some male witches attach the christian meaning to warlock of oath breaker, Liar and traitor.

Anyway Despite modern offense taken by some at the word, "warlock" has for centuries simply meant "male witch" in common English usage. Claims that the word originates solely from an old word for "traitor" are erroneous. In extant Medieval records, male witches are often called "warlock" by Christian persecutors and judges. If one of its' meanings is indeed "traitor", then it is reasonable to assume that oaths broken were Christian oaths, and that "warlocks" were perceived as being "traitors" to Christian values and society.

Many modern day male witches are reclaiming "warlock" as a positive word of power and ancient imagery, even as the word "witch" was reclaimed in years past and recast in a rightfully positive light. These men know that many who make sweeping statements about witchcraft speak only for their particular coven or tradition and not for all, despite assertions to the contrary.
Several ancient words from Scandinavia and the British Isles are very plausible as being origins for the word "warlock". The Norse "Vargrliker" (one who takes on or assumes a wolf's body) and "vardlokker" (an enchanter, singer of spells or caller of spirits) are two such examples. The Old English word "waerloga" does mean "oath-breaker", but ironically, the Scottish version of the word (which anti-warlock folk like to tout as their reason for disliking the word in the first place) does Not. It means "cunning man" or male witch. Or is in the old Norse, vardlokker :He who communes with Spirits.

norseman
10-12-2011, 07:24 AM
An ancient word, redolent in many layers of meaning. We should seek to preserve it by using it.
SO, Warlock it is ! :smile:

WhiteWarrior
10-12-2011, 12:36 PM
Incidentally, there were other old norse words for people who did harmful magic. 'trollmann' (male) and 'trollkjerring' (female). A woman can still get the last one thrown after her if she is doing negative stuff, but in modern Norwegian 'trollmann' just means wizard.

Actually, are you sure the words wizard doesn't mean male witch too?

norseman
10-12-2011, 01:23 PM
:D Every word you can think of means the same when you get to talking about practitioners of magic
Just as an example : Hedge Witch = Hedge Wytch = Haegtessa [Saxon - Hedge Rider] = Night Traveller = Myrk Rider = Gandreidh [Wand-Rider] = Walker-on-the-Wind = Cunning Man/Woman = Wise Man/Woman = ............... :D

Neville
10-12-2011, 01:37 PM
:D Every word you can think of means the same when you get to talking about practitioners of magic
Just as an example : Hedge Witch = Hedge Wytch = Haegtessa [Saxon - Hedge Rider] = Night Traveller = Myrk Rider = Gandreidh [Wand-Rider] = Walker-on-the-Wind = Cunning Man/Woman = Wise Man/Woman = ............... :D
Nah a witch is a woman with a green complexion, A wart on a crooked nose, garbed in black with a pointy hat, Ordinarily there will be just the one tooth remaining and as I understand a very distinctive laugh.. I think they eat Children as well...Oh and their cooking...Spiderslegs and other gross out stuff Anyone else just is not a witch..Ask any child, they'll tell you the same. :D

Its easy to see the value of archetypes, but those associated with witch, wizard , warlock et al are probably amongst the most widely misrepresented, and that too is a shame as I feel that diversity suffers as a result. However when seen like this it becomes apparent why so many are solitary practitioners. because one witch could say I am a witch another could say no you are not in response.:smile: Fortunately we know what we are as individuals and there in lies the grounding of our own tradition/Path.

Occultist
10-12-2011, 05:04 PM
I do not like the stereo type of the Green Witch because of its actual origins women accused of Witchcraft would be beaten so badly that there face would turn black and blue or a shade of green and they would break there noses and bust out there teeth before hanging them if they were that lucky.
My People is from Ayrshire I know what Warlock means and its origins the term means Oathbreaker or Traitor and sometimes "Devil".
But yes Scot's used the term to identify a Male witch also like calling a Baby without a Dad the "B" word.
If you believe its something different I am okay with that its just a label if you use it in a good way it takes away the negativity in the name and brings it to good.
You will probably have to due more research so will I. here is some more infomation if you are intrested http://ladyoftheearth.com/witch/warlock.txt
Also if you want to share your origins of research on the matter please feel free to do so.
My information about this was from my family who are Witches from Ayrshire.
But I mean if thats how you identify yourself as a Warlock/male Witch its just a label and like I said using it for this label is fine because you are removing the negativity.

Neville
10-12-2011, 05:20 PM
But I mean if thats how you identify yourself as a Warlock/male Witch its just a label and like I said using it for this label is fine because you are removing the negativity.
Hello Occultist,
It's not really personal to me fortunately, I rather err towards the bardic traditions of Wales myself, being a quarter welsh myself. As you illustrated very articulately the child view of the witch is influenced by their appearance post interrogation..Which is a bad stereotype in my view.

The Christian appellation of Warlock carries with it a very negative view also, which again is a bad stereotype.
and thankfully there is something of a purification in this respect of the here to for tarnished reputation of the Warlock. To this end I will guide you to some documentation in support of my proposition that a warlock is not perhaps as black as he is painted.

http://www.boudicca.de/warlock-e.htm (http://www.spiritualforums.com/vb/redir.php?link=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.boudicca.de%2Fwarl ock-e.htm)

The above is the same link from my OP and particularly relevant are these lines of text;

1. Whatever the word and its origin, the reality is how we use it now. Many words have changed their meanings over the years to become something totally different from the original. 2. Warlocks did exist. 3. Warlocks are not satanists or figments of Hollywood any more than are Witches. 4. Being a Warlock is a legitimate title for a male Witch. 5. Witches and Warlocks are traditionally outside of general society and each have their own special brands of magic, neither being inherently good or evil. For Witches to denigrate Warlocks as evil or deluded is very dangerously like using the same dogma that is trotted out by the fundamentalists. No-one can afford to point fingers or throw stones at each other.

Occultist
10-12-2011, 07:49 PM
I agree taken something even a word that negative stereo types has attached its self to is a good thing I have read Matthew Sandow's essay it was good and he is from UK also its to me not that cut and dry because I know what many Scot's think when they hear Warlock.
It's also a name that is used if someone is just being mean. like "OO Whatta Warlock that was". but like I said its a name for something that over the years negativity has attached its self to. I personally would never call a male Witch a Warlock untill I knew he was 100% comfortable with it especially a Scottish one. LOL
But taken the word back to the origins and saying hey Male witches are not evil is very powerful.

norseman
10-12-2011, 07:55 PM
:D Call me whatever you will but I am a Cunning Man :smile: There is much misinformation regarding names so I will stick with "Triumph of the Moon " by Prof. Ronald Hutton, a fully-fledged, peer-reviewed academic piece of research.
Maybe I am prejudiced and exposing my background there but so be it :D

Occultist
11-12-2011, 03:02 AM
I dont label. But I am truelly glad your taken the name Warlock back from ignorance shining it up and maked mean something positive that I highly respect you for. But if I had to call you something it would be "Wise one" Mote it be.

norseman
11-12-2011, 08:41 AM
Quite happy with Wise Man but, in the far past, there was a differentiation in names.
The names Cunning Folk and Wise Folk seemed to be Cunning Man and Wise Woman. They stood highly in the tribal hierarchy, performing both spiritual and mundane functions. Often found as a mated pair with their own "hearth".
"magical" workings often called either the Cunning Craft or the Craft of the Wise.
Maybe it's just my mind-set or the fact that I live in an ancient landscape but I do prefer these old names - they seem to connect me better with the ancestors. :smile:

Occultist
11-12-2011, 07:10 PM
Yeh Nore I know what Cunning folk is your preaching to the Choir LOL. I just thought of Wise man when the question was posed.

norseman
11-12-2011, 08:00 PM
Yeh Nore I know what Cunning folk is your preaching to the Choir LOL. I just thought of Wise man when the question was posed.

No worries :smile: Keep the faith ! :D

Mysticdreamer
29-12-2011, 02:41 AM
I've always heard that the term warlock means truth twister. But yes, they should have a name for a male witch. Instead of simply male witch. The word witch, at least to me, conjures up women who practice magic. Even before I studied wicca I thought it was funny when a male referred to himself as a witch.

Occultist
29-12-2011, 03:28 AM
Male Witches should refer to themselves as awesome imo. :)
When I picture male witches I think very strong majestic sexy creatures who are not hung up on marriage,rules or laws of humanity but someone who thinks outside the box and is not hung up on a female stereo type. But understand yin and yang and male and female sides of nature... I think there passion is bright as fire and there love as deep as the ocean and there magic as wise as the ancients.