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mac
05-12-2011, 09:05 AM
Christmas is coming and with it comes all the gooey, sentimental tripe, synthetic love, gaudy imported decorations, retail madness and absurd over-idulgence that our western society demands to 'celebrate' Christmas.

Throw into this mix a fantasy story about someone born two millennia ago. Teach children the nonsense that Jesus came to save the world and was the 'Son of God'. Boost the collective mania by singing carols with a theme which is totally opposite to that of Spiritualism's simple message.

It's hard, of course, not to travel that same road we've been walking since the time we were tiny, a road we were conditioned to walk by parents, grandparents, schooling and the dictates of society.

Oh it doesn't matter, it's just a bit of fun for the kids, it doesn't do 'em any harm to believe in Santa - it's Christmas! You've all heard this stuff - you might even say the same yourself. And it is right that believing in Santa is a bit of fun for small kids. Left at that its fine. Trouble is all the Christmassy stuff gets mixed and muddled in a child's mind and years later those kids have become adults who are then totally muddled about Jesus and God and Christmas and Easter and....well you get my point.

Spiritualism? Oh yes. That's what I was getting to. Spiritualism? Isn't that all about getting message at the spooks church?

What does Spiritualism really say about Jesus and about Christmas?

Scibat
05-12-2011, 09:17 AM
Christmas is coming and with it comes all the gooey, sentimental tripe, synthetic love, gaudy imported decorations, retail madness and absurd over-idulgence that our western society demands to 'celebrate' Christmas.

Throw into this mix a fantasy story about someone born two millennia ago. Teach children the nonsense that Jesus came to save the world and was the 'Son of God'. Boost the collective mania by singing carols with a theme which is totally opposite to that of Spiritualism's simple message.

It's hard, of course, not to travel that same road we've been walking since the time we were tiny, a road we were conditioned to walk by parents, grandparents, schooling and the dictates of society.

Oh it doesn't matter, it's just a bit of fun for the kids, it doesn't do 'em any harm to believe in Santa - it's Christmas! You've all heard this stuff - you might even say the same yourself. And it is right that believing in Santa is a bit of fun for small kids. Left at that its fine. Trouble is all the Christmassy stuff gets mixed and muddled in a child's mind and years later those kids have become adults who are then totally muddled about Jesus and God and Christmas and Easter and....well you get my point.

Spiritualism? Oh yes. That's what I was getting to. Spiritualism? Isn't that all about getting message at the spooks church?

What does Spiritualism really say about Jesus and about Christmas?
Nice tirade against Christmas, you going for Ebeneezer Scrooge there or The Grinch? Sounds like a bit of both to me, especially the term "Sentimental tripe." that's only a hair away from a fully blown "Bah humbug."

I think the core message of the holidays, which is "Peace on Earth, good will towards men." is a good one to spread, regardless of the commercialism or trappings, and if it screws your kids up, then you are doing a poor job as a parent, plain and simple. The holiday of Christmas, if you live where it is celebrated by the majority, actually does a lot of good -- In general people are kinder and more charitable, it brings out the best in most of us. Why people see the need to bash it, and try to tear it down baffles me, if you don't want to celebrate it on any level, great then just ignore it.

Also if those things you say are representative of the attitude espoused by those that practice spiritualism about the holidays, I am glad to live in a part of the US where its not common.

Oh and lastly...

Merry Christmas!:icon_rendeer:

mac
05-12-2011, 09:54 AM
Nice tirade against Christmas, you going for Ebeneezer Scrooge there or The Grinch? Sounds like a bit of both to me, especially the term "Sentimental tripe." that's only a hair away from a fully blown "Bah humbug."

I think the core message of the holidays, which is "Peace on Earth, good will towards men." is a good one to spread, regardless of the commercialism or trappings, and if it screws your kids up, then you are doing a poor job as a parent, plain and simple. The holiday of Christmas, if you live where it is celebrated by the majority, actually does a lot of good -- In general people are kinder and more charitable, it brings out the best in most of us. Why people see the need to bash it, and try to tear it down baffles me, if you don't want to celebrate it on any level, great then just ignore it.

Also if those things you say are representative of the attitude espoused by those that practice spiritualism about the holidays, I am glad to live in a part of the US where its not common.

Oh and lastly...

Merry Christmas!:icon_rendeer:

Didn't know you were a fellow Spiritualist, Scibat - glad to hear it. I, too, live in a part of the USA where Spiritualism isn't seen much - come to think of it that's just about everywhere here....

Oh, you did notice, didn't you? I was speaking about Spiritualism and not about Christmas....:wink:

glenos
05-12-2011, 10:29 AM
Personally Christmas means little to me as it marks the begining of a life that was a bit naughty as I'd say it. Where he ended up as a spiritual being after this life is of interest and the fact that he showed up in Spirit form is the one for me. What as "a group" Spiritualism says about Christmas I dunno or The Nazerene come to that as each of us has different ideas and views. I have my own ideas and I think I side with Silver Birch on this and what he says about certain groups in afterlife spheres, that gather to celebrate both Christmas and Easter. As for The Nazerene I'm a devote to his teachings, or at least try to be. Not the man as such but to where his finger was/is pointing.

G

MMM
05-12-2011, 12:30 PM
a little levity and tolerance among a certain self-proclaimed spiritualist on this board would be nice to have in your christmas stocking
you are allowed to have a stocking and tree and presents as a spiritualist , you know?
and what's wrong with saying 'merry christmas' to our christian brothers

'the brotherhood of man' and all that you know........
in fact, walk the walk of the 'brotherhood of man' ....

earthprowler
05-12-2011, 12:51 PM
Christmas is coming and with it comes all the gooey, sentimental tripe, synthetic love, gaudy imported decorations, retail madness and absurd over-idulgence that our western society demands to 'celebrate' Christmas.

Throw into this mix a fantasy story about someone born two millennia ago. Teach children the nonsense that Jesus came to save the world and was the 'Son of God'. Boost the collective mania by singing carols with a theme which is totally opposite to that of Spiritualism's simple message.

It's hard, of course, not to travel that same road we've been walking since the time we were tiny, a road we were conditioned to walk by parents, grandparents, schooling and the dictates of society.

Oh it doesn't matter, it's just a bit of fun for the kids, it doesn't do 'em any harm to believe in Santa - it's Christmas! You've all heard this stuff - you might even say the same yourself. And it is right that believing in Santa is a bit of fun for small kids. Left at that its fine. Trouble is all the Christmassy stuff gets mixed and muddled in a child's mind and years later those kids have become adults who are then totally muddled about Jesus and God and Christmas and Easter and....well you get my point.

Spiritualism? Oh yes. That's what I was getting to. Spiritualism? Isn't that all about getting message at the spooks church?

What does Spiritualism really say about Jesus and about Christmas?


I think Mac is having a bad day and needed to vent some frustrations......i think he just needs a hug....:hug2:

mac
05-12-2011, 01:00 PM
a little levity and tolerance among a certain self-proclaimed spiritualist on this board would be nice to have in your christmas stocking
you are allowed to have a stocking and tree and presents as a spiritualist , you know?
and what's wrong with saying 'merry christmas' to our christian brothers

'the brotherhood of man' and all that you know........
in fact, walk the walk of the 'brotherhood of man' ....


I don't know whom you're referring to above but whomever it is my own take is that it's way more tolerant not to suggest how others need to behave - doubly so near Christmas perhaps? :wink:


You didn't give a reply to the final question, MMM: "What does Spiritualism really say about Jesus and about Christmas?" :D:D:D

mac
05-12-2011, 01:03 PM
I think Mac is having a bad day and needed to vent some frustrations......i think he just needs a hug....:hug2:

....and a wet, sloppy kiss please. :D

To tell the truth - and risk losing that kiss - I'm having a GREAT day - and it's not long before I'm off you-know-where again.

way to go!

earthprowler
05-12-2011, 01:08 PM
....and a wet, sloppy kiss please. :D

To tell the truth - and risk losing that kiss - I'm having a GREAT day - and it's not long before I'm off you-know-where again.

way to go!

LOL.....you crack me up Mac! muuaahh....:tongue: have a wonderful day!

mac
05-12-2011, 01:20 PM
LOL.....you crack me up Mac! muuaahh....:tongue: have a wonderful day!


:hug3:and some folks say I'm too serious.....:wink::D

astroboy
05-12-2011, 01:57 PM
Anyone seen Arthur Christmas ?
Good imagination, I would say.

mac
05-12-2011, 03:20 PM
Anyone seen Arthur Christmas ?
Good imagination, I would say.

Aardman - our daughter works for 'em - great movie she tells me - I'll be taking a gander when I can. :hug3:

midnightstar
05-12-2011, 04:11 PM
I don;t think Christmas has much to do with spirituality, apart from the "peace and goodwill to all men" thing .....

mac
05-12-2011, 04:34 PM
I don;t think Christmas has much to do with spirituality, apart from the "peace and goodwill to all men" thing .....

It's not about spirituality. I wrote about Spiritualism.

As Dr Phil says "Take a look....."

midnightstar
05-12-2011, 05:19 PM
It's not about spirituality. I wrote about Spiritualism.

As Dr Phil says "Take a look....."

I probably misread it then through lack of sleep ..........

Mind's Eye
05-12-2011, 05:30 PM
I grew up believeing in God, Jesus, Santa Claus and the Easter Bunny; and none of this got muddled in my head as I got older. I'm fully aware that the Easter Bunny died for my sins on Easter Sunday, Santa Claus will reward me with heaven if I am good all my life... And Jesus comes out of his tomb on groundhog day; and if he doesn't see his shadow, we can count on an early spring.

It's all very simple really...

mac
05-12-2011, 05:43 PM
I probably misread it then through lack of sleep ..........

there ya go!

mac
05-12-2011, 05:44 PM
I grew up believeing in God, Jesus, Santa Claus and the Easter Bunny; and none of this got muddled in my head as I got older. I'm fully aware that the Easter Bunny died for my sins on Easter Sunday, Santa Claus will reward me with heaven if I am good all my life... And Jesus comes out of his tomb on groundhog day; and if he doesn't see his shadow, we can count on an early spring.

It's all very simple really...

you da man! :D

deepsea
05-12-2011, 07:45 PM
I grew up believeing in God, Jesus, Santa Claus and the Easter Bunny; and none of this got muddled in my head as I got older. I'm fully aware that the Easter Bunny died for my sins on Easter Sunday, Santa Claus will reward me with heaven if I am good all my life... And Jesus comes out of his tomb on groundhog day; and if he doesn't see his shadow, we can count on an early spring.

It's all very simple really...

Straight for the throat.....I'm with you.
To be absolutely truthful,Xmas as a child,I have many happy memories.
Hopefully I will never forget them.
The excitement of waking up on Xmas morning,feeling the rustle of the sock that is now filled with gifts by Santa Clause (mum or dad?)
The cooking of the turkey in the oven,the smell of mince pies cooking.
The fire in the grate,the Xmas tree standing in the corner,twinkling away.

(I want to be a child again.....:icon_frown: )
:D

Scibat
05-12-2011, 07:49 PM
Didn't know you were a fellow Spiritualist, Scibat - glad to hear it. I, too, live in a part of the USA where Spiritualism isn't seen much - come to think of it that's just about everywhere here....

Oh, you did notice, didn't you? I was speaking about Spiritualism and not about Christmas....:wink:

Really?

Christmas is coming and with it comes all the gooey, sentimental tripe, synthetic love, gaudy imported decorations, retail madness and absurd over-idulgence that our western society demands to 'celebrate' Christmas.

You used the word Christmas twice in your first sentence and its in the thread title, so sounds like it was about Christmas to me. :rolleyes:

mac
05-12-2011, 08:01 PM
Really?



You used the word Christmas twice in your first sentence and its in the thread title, so sounds like it was about Christmas to me. :rolleyes:
You read what you thought I'd written, perhaps what you wanted to see? And you are, after all, in the 'Spiritualism' forum - it tells you that at the top of each page. That was a clue.

Sorry you didn't look properly, scibat. :rolleyes: :wink:

Scibat
05-12-2011, 08:26 PM
You read what you thought I'd written, perhaps what you wanted to see? And you are, after all, in the 'Spiritualism' forum - it tells you that at the top of each page. That was a clue.

Sorry you didn't look properly, scibat. :rolleyes: :wink:

Your topic title is: Christmas is coming -- Your opening statement and most of your post is a tirade against Christmas, with a tidbit about Spiritualism at its tail end. Regardless of where you put that thread, by using the words you chose you made it about Christmas; A holiday which I enjoy, so I made a retort to your tirade. That's how forums work, especially this one -- The sub-forums are not-sacrosanct and this one isn't your private demesne -- Regardless of your desires for it to be otherwise. :rolleyes: If you didn't want this thread to be about Christmas or you wanted to be about how Christmas relates to Spiritualism, then perhaps you should have chosen your words better and left off the attack on the holiday.

What I am gathering is that this was a tirade against Christmas with a little blurb about Spiritualism at the end, and that you wanted to hide behind this sub-forum as a means to avoid any sort of repercussions from those statements, and again, forums don't work that way. I'll tell you as I have many others, if you want to spout off without hearing any dissenting opinions, go start a blog somewhere.

mac
05-12-2011, 09:07 PM
Your topic title is: Christmas is coming -- Your opening statement and most of your post is a tirade against Christmas, with a tidbit about Spiritualism at its tail end. Regardless of where you put that thread, by using the words you chose you made it about Christmas; A holiday which I enjoy, so I made a retort to your tirade. That's how forums work, especially this one -- The sub-forums are not-sacrosanct and this one isn't your private demesne -- Regardless of your desires for it to be otherwise. :rolleyes: If you didn't want this thread to be about Christmas or you wanted to be about how Christmas relates to Spiritualism, then perhaps you should have chosen your words better and left off the attack on the holiday.

What I am gathering is that this was a tirade against Christmas with a little blurb about Spiritualism at the end, and that you wanted to hide behind this sub-forum as a means to avoid any sort of repercussions from those statements, and again, forums don't work that way. I'll tell you as I have many others, if you want to spout off without hearing any dissenting opinions, go start a blog somewhere.
I never give advice as to what others should do. (unlike you in your last sentence) When I don't know anything about a subject I don't post in the forum unless it's to ask a question. When I do post in a forum then I know exactly what I'm talking about and I'm careful to read what the thread's about. I can always support and defend what I write.

Now, as I say, I NEVER give advice, or tell anyone what they should or shouldn't do, how they should write, what they should write about, how they should present their piece - I see that as showing my basic respect to other contributors. BUT I will point out where their arguments fall short, where they don't have relevant information, where they fail to address points which are under discussion. In turn I expect contributors to challenge the points I raise, challenge the responses I make - why wouldn't I? A blog's for someone who doesn't want discussion or debate - not my scene.

What you gathered - as you've indicated above - was wrong. You only read what you thought I was saying. I can't help that, scibat. I don't hide anywhere - I'm here and I'm here most every day. I don't know where you are because I stay in forums where I have relevant knowledge. I don't wander around elsewhere posting about subjects I don't understand so I don't have a clue what your specialty is.

I'll always welcome your comments on what I write about Spiritualism. I'm pleased to find you here and engaging with me. In time you may better understand my deep love of this subject.

peace :hug2:

earthprowler
05-12-2011, 11:18 PM
Straight for the throat.....I'm with you.
To be absolutely truthful,Xmas as a child,I have many happy memories.
Hopefully I will never forget them.
The excitement of waking up on Xmas morning,feeling the rustle of the sock that is now filled with gifts by Santa Clause (mum or dad?)
The cooking of the turkey in the oven,the smell of mince pies cooking.
The fire in the grate,the Xmas tree standing in the corner,twinkling away.

(I want to be a child again.....:icon_frown: )
:D


geese, you got me all bummed now.....i sure do miss my mom cooking dinner after i tore into my presents always amazed that santa (who always left a thank you note for the cookies and milk btw :tongue:) brought exactly what i wanted......even though the note suspiciously resembled my moms handwriting....what 9 year old really pays attention to detail? lol.

i wanna be back then again too.......:icon_frown:

deepsea
06-12-2011, 03:55 AM
geese, you got me all bummed now.....i sure do miss my mom cooking dinner after i tore into my presents always amazed that santa (who always left a thank you note for the cookies and milk btw :tongue:) brought exactly what i wanted......even though the note suspiciously resembled my moms handwriting....what 9 year old really pays attention to detail? lol.

i wanna be back then again too.......:icon_frown:

Nothing can take the memories away.
:smile:

Serenity Bear
13-12-2011, 01:18 PM
The thing I could never get is, as a Spiritualist we dont necessarily believe in Christmas but we still celebrate it in the Churchs.

My point of view is that Xmas is based on the Pagan festival (Noel?) which I think celebrates survival over Winter with lots of food, drink and a yule log burning in the harth. So Im all up for it - lets join in and make merry.

One boss thought because I was a Spiritualist that I should work Xmas day - I told him to sling his hook. How was I going to travel 14 miles without transport! Yes I buy presents etc and put up deckies (my family is predominantly atheists but from a Christian back ground). Nice and confusing.

One thing I find is that those who are against presents etc are usually male, and its the women who push for it. Its like Valentines day - its suddenly a ripe off when boyfriends etc have to buy something - I wonder if Easter would be the same if the male half of the species had to spend something, and not let us women get all the choccies etc in. Im not against men not buying something, I just think they need to learn some bargin hunting like us women do :)

NB This is a tongue in check post :)

deepsea
13-12-2011, 02:04 PM
The thing I could never get is, as a Spiritualist we dont necessarily believe in Christmas but we still celebrate it in the Churchs.

My point of view is that Xmas is based on the Pagan festival (Noel?) which I think celebrates survival over Winter with lots of food, drink and a yule log burning in the harth. So Im all up for it - lets join in and make merry.

One boss thought because I was a Spiritualist that I should work Xmas day - I told him to sling his hook. How was I going to travel 14 miles without transport! Yes I buy presents etc and put up deckies (my family is predominantly atheists but from a Christian back ground). Nice and confusing.

One thing I find is that those who are against presents etc are usually male, and its the women who push for it. Its like Valentines day - its suddenly a ripe off when boyfriends etc have to buy something - I wonder if Easter would be the same if the male half of the species had to spend something, and not let us women get all the choccies etc in. Im not against men not buying something, I just think they need to learn some bargin hunting like us women do :)

NB This is a tongue in check post :)

I love it,Serenity.
:D

Silver
13-12-2011, 02:22 PM
Me too, SB ~ that was a great post!

Capacity
13-12-2011, 02:23 PM
I saw a commercial the other day that made me laugh cuz it applies at our house.

It said that when you decorate your house, it shouldn't look like Santa "lives" there!
lol

astroboy
01-03-2012, 02:57 PM
Ya, I laughed too and that drew the attention of a particular crowd whom I personally know, they were only a few seats in front of me. Made me embarassed - why? - that's a bit personal.