Interpreting Energetic Processes w/Natal Chart

[VesicaPhoenix11]

I have been interested in and paying attention to astrology for most of my life, since I still was expected home at 6pm or I'd be grounded - many moons ago. Unfortunately, when I first began seeking information about the state of being human, as an adolescent, I was restricted to a one room library with very few resources and of course only vague intuitions as to what I was looking for - this was before the days of cyber communication and the world wide web. This meant that it wasn't until I was an adult, years later, that I was able to really access "hard facts" about birth charts, such as how incomplete and erroneous any analysis is that only considers the sun sign.

Since then I have devoured what I can about how the aspects and placement of signs, planets, and houses affect my experience of being alive and for any clues or suggestions as to where my path should carry me.

I am not an expert by any means but through education and my own intuition I feel I have a fairly stable understanding of how a natal chart can express the tendencies and energies of a person and their life. I have intuited (and been given a few hints here and there over the years) that if humans can consciously contain both the microcosm and the macrocosm within us - then a natal chart gives a very basic map of how those two dimensions (states of being) are connected to one another. Roughly, how the energy that fuels life moves through the physical and subtle bodies and keeps this creation scene moving right along.

I assume (for I have no knowledge other than my own hunches) that something happens (a rite of passage, of being born, perhaps a pact of sorts) when we leave the birth canal and choose to breath for the first time that binds that connection between our macro-self and our micro-self - which is why a natal chart is an accurate rough map of our path and personality.

I am not certain but it seems as if astrology may be a left over science from a time when humans had considerably more conscious understanding of the full complexity of our physical and subtle selves. At least that is my perception of it so far - after much pondering and sitting with the matter.

I explain all of this to give whoever reads this a sketchy outline of my understanding of astrology at this moment. And now, part of what led me here this morning was I went to a new site to calculate my birth chart (actually checked it out from another thread here) and was slightly surprised by one of the interpretations.

I am curious about the ability to predict ones mortal passing via a natal chart? I have read many interpretations of my chart over the years, have spoken with friends who had more "hard facts" than I, and of course have followed my own gut intuition and have never before had any aspect indicate the specifics of my physical death. But, today -

see link if you'd like http://interactive.0800-horoscope.com/cgi-bin/graphic/daisy13?x=720name=Rachel&firstname=&birthplace=Seattle,%20WA&lang=en&sex=f&dformat=0&date=8/6/1976&time=0:31&country=1&state=53&adjust=7.00&long=122.20&lat=47.36

- I used this site to bring up a chart and ran across this interpretation of a house placement.

House VIII - Sagittarius

Death will certainly be in a foreign land or on a journey abroad. Nevertheless this will happen after a long life, when the body is too exhausted to continue. Easy death.

I find this curious. Not because I am spooked about a death prediction, it is the price of the ride and admittedly I seem to have a pretty smooth ride out if this is accurate. *grin* But because I doubt the surety of any prediction like this, it seems rather cut and dry and entirely too sure of itself.

The way I have always chosen to interpret any divination I perform (tarot, medicine cards, or chart aspects) is as energetic tendencies towards certain behaviors, emotions, and experiences. Also, I hold the belief that my awareness of these tendencies allows me to be conscious of their course and guide them. I look to divination to help me become increasingly more conscious of the energetic body I am, to evolve you could say.

So, when I read my chart and my horoscope I never think of any prediction as written in stone. I think of them more as indicators of what internal energies I am expressing consciously/unconsciously or/and of energies I may be experiencing externally. All the indicators do is allow me to choose how I want to process those energies consciously.

Now, I am also aware that I am not aware enough to be completely aware of every level of my self. *smile* Because of this unawareness I can not say with absolute certainty that I am fully conscious of these subtle energies or that I am successful in guiding their course. (I watch for the results in my self and in how life manifests for and around me which tends to give me a rough idea of my success rate.)

But - if this site were to be true then my assumption that I have the ability to affect my experience while alive would be incorrect. This conclusion leads me to reject that this random site has handed me the mystery of my own mortal demise. Most likely the folks writing the interpretation were aiming for people who expect firm, concrete, directions from their charts, not introspection, soul analysis, and a fuller consciousness - which is my aim.

(Though oddly enough, not two or three weeks ago I had decided
around when I would like to leave this earth - and it does fit roughly
with this interpretation. I know, strange lady but I think its best to
have these matters sorted before they sneak up on you. *grin*

I only mention this because I can also fall back on the idea that if I
plotted a rough path for myself before I was born - experiences,
lessons, emotions to do and feel - then I very well could have planted
this exact exit strategy and hidden it from myself until now. Reality can
be rather flexible; but for now I choose to know that I just happened
across a slightly inaccurate astrology site that is aiming for an audience
that is seeking concrete answers to their questions about existence.)

I decided to come share this with the forum because I am interested in other people's experience of astrological maps and how you choose to interpret them. I have recently begun consciously placing my attention on subtle/energetic aspects (like astrology) of life again and find myself without many people to discuss areas that could use feedback.

I am curious as to other people's thoughts/beliefs/intuitions about how a birth chart is able to provide any guidance to our experience of life.

Does anyone else have the thought that astrology really could be a remnant of a time when humans had a fuller awareness of their being?

How has knowing your chart and its interpretations allowed you/or not allowed you a deeper understanding of yourself? How has it affected your choices or decisions?

Or just any random thoughts you'd like to share?

Be well....

[Greybeard]

Goodness...Someone who takes astrology seriously.

The personal death is shown in the natal horoscope. As you correctly surmise, the presence of Sagittarius on the 8th cusp is not so cut and dried as that site would have you believe.

Nicholas Culpepper, Jean Baptiste Morin, Johannes Kepler and Richard Houck are four astrologers who come to mind and are known to have predicted their own deaths well in advance of their occurrence. Evangeline Adams was absolved of "fortunetelling" in a New York court by telling the judge, based on the child's horoscope, that his son had died at an early age.

There are many other examples of astrologers predicting their own and others' deaths, often a lifetime in advance.

If our personal death is so accurately predicted by the birth chart, it stands to reason that all other events in life are also indicated in this map. In fact, a human being follows a life-destiny that is clearly portrayed by the horoscope. There is essentially no free will; our life course is predetermined at birth.

Two statements attributed to Jesus may shed some light on this idea. First, on the Mount the night of his capture and subsequent crucifixion, he prays. He says, "O my Father, if it be possible, let this cup pass from me: nevertheless, not as I will, but as thou wilt." Here we see that the Divine Will (shown by the stars) takes precedence over the individual will. [Matt. 26:39]
At some point, people asked Jesus how it was that he performed miracles. He said, "It is not I who do these works, but my Father who doeth them through me." Here we see that we are tools or vessels in the hand of the Divine. Paul says "O man, who art thou that repliest against God? Shall the thing formed say unto him that formed it, Why hast thou made me thus? Hath not the potter power over the clay, of the same lump to make one vessel unto honor, and another unto dishonor?"

The Hindu scriptures teach the same idea, as for example in the Bhagavad Gita (3:27): "All actions take place in time by the interweaving of the forces of nature; but the man lost in selfish delusion thinks that he himself is the actor." The horoscope describes the "interweaving of the forces of nature" as they apply to a specific individual.

The birth chart describes the vessel and its purpose. It can lead to a deeper understanding not only of the self, but also of the nature of being. It describes the way the universe itself functions. It can open our eyes to seeing our place in the Whole. Through this understanding, our choices are most certainly affected.

[VesicaPhoenix11]

Goodness...Someone who takes astrology seriously.

I take any bread crumb left in the forest of self seriously. *smile* Sometimes I feel like a detective on the trail of...myself.

If our personal death is so accurately predicted by the birth chart, it stands to reason that all other events in life are also indicated in this map. In fact, a human being follows a life-destiny that is clearly portrayed by the horoscope. There is essentially no free will; our life course is predetermined at birth.

Aye, I did think of that half way through my post. It seems we use up our free will in planning out our path here and then we promptly forget what we planned. It's more of a surprise that way! I guess for years now I have accepted that I know that I don't know that I know - and I am coming to a point in my path that I am ready to shed a little more light on where I have come from and where I am going. But, at least I have that death thing taken care of.

The Hindu scriptures teach the same idea, as for example in the Bhagavad Gita (3:27): "All actions take place in time by the interweaving of the forces of nature; but the man lost in selfish delusion thinks that he himself is the actor." The horoscope describes the "interweaving of the forces of nature" as they apply to a specific individual.

Nice quote, I grok.

The birth chart describes the vessel and its purpose. It can lead to a deeper understanding not only of the self, but also of the nature of being. It describes the way the universe itself functions. It can open our eyes to seeing our place in the Whole. Through this understanding, our choices are most certainly affected.

*nods wholeheartedly* Predetermination and free will can exist simultaneously it seems, yet another truthful paradox.

I am curious, do you have any recommendations of books I might be able to find that would assist me in gaining some of this deeper knowledge? I have a basic understanding of my sun, ascendant, and descendant influences. And a slightly less basic understanding of how signs, planets, houses, and major aspects affect my path. But I have no knowledge of how "essential and accidental dignities" can be interpreted in my chart.

For years I have run on my intuition and a rudimentary grasp of the basics of astrology - a conscious exercise in faith and testing of the knowledge that I know lies inside of me - but as I said before it seems that I am coming to a point where my self is asking that I work towards a clearer understanding of my purpose and path. Shed some light on the matter as it were.

Any recommendations will be followed up on and appreciated... and if you had the time to take a gander at my chart (the link is in my first post) and pass on anything that stands out to you I would be very thankful as I have compiled 30 pages of separate interpretations using the astro.com and chaos astrology but it feels like all I am doing is going back over what I already know.

Be well...

[Greybeard]

Sounds like you need a good basic textbook on astrology.

"The Modern Textbook of Astrology" by Margaret Hone is a good one.
or try "A to Z Horoscope Maker and Interpreter" by Llewellyn George
"How to Learn Astrology" by Marc Edmund Jones...I happen to think Jones is the best teacher of astrology you can find.

You can get a very good grounding in astrology with "The Message of the Stars" by Max Heindel, available online free from The Rosicrucians at La Jolla, California.

Also, Ptolemy's "Tetrabiblos" is online free. It was written nearly 1900 years ago.

I don't much do readings. I don't like to use links to a chart that is not done in the format that I prefer to use; if you provide me with your birth data I will take a look....

[VesicaPhoenix11]

Thanks for your recommendations, I will be following up with them. For some odd reason I thought what I had learned 10 or so years ago was pretty complete but after reading through this section I realized that it was a good primer, but it was just a primer.

I shut myself down to new info about spirituality or subtle/ethereal levels of being for a while for a few different reasons, one being I wanted to see what I would and could "remember" - what could be communicated to me through my higher self - with as little as possible outside influence as I could manage. But, that seems to be the turn of the spiral behind me now and now its time to turn the corner to the next lesson.

I have always taken astrology as a map to the self, but I guess I never really realized exactly how much it can tell me about myself. If that makes any sense?

Thanks!