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Trieah
07-09-2011, 05:58 AM
Could spiritualism be considered a form of unorganized religion?

Medium_Laura
07-09-2011, 11:36 AM
Religion is man made. Where as to be "spiritual" is following your own true path. If you mean more like "spiritualist churches" then yes, it can be because it has a set of "rules" that are expected to be followed.

Being "spiritual" for yourself and with your own beliefs/rules is not IMO an organized religion.

Serenity Bear
07-09-2011, 01:59 PM
In the Uk Spiritualism became a recognised religion after the passing of the Fraudulents Mediums Act of 1952. This act has be superceeded by the Trading Standards Act which was passed in the last two years or so - sorry cant remember the date.

Spiritualism is a religion follows the 7 Principles first layed down by Emma Hardinge Britain. It began on the 31 March 1848 at Hydesville New York State with the Fox Sisters interpritting the raps of a spirit (Charles Rosna) into a legible system. Before this time there had been recogniseable raps but no one had had a two way conversation.

PS Spiritualism has its own Ministers who can marry two people as do other Priests, Vicars etc (yes a registrar has to be present). We also have funerals and Christenings/naming ceremonies as other churches. We celebrate Easter,Christmas etc, but also some places celebrate Hydesville Day. Unlike other religions we can have two names, especially for those who are 'named' as an adult. We have the name we were called by our parents but also those given to us by/in the Spirit World.

Medium_Laura
07-09-2011, 02:32 PM
Well there ya go :P

Skye
07-09-2011, 10:46 PM
Could spiritualism be considered a form of unorganized religion?
No, not at all.

Modern Spiritualism is a religion, a science and a philosophy. Unlike orthodox religions there is no doctrine or dogma to adhere to.

Their seven principles are not rules.

They are simply guidelines of how people should live their lives, as was communicated by the spirit of Robert Owen, through the mediumship of Emma Hardinge Britten.

THE FATHERHOOD OF GOD

THE BROTHERHOOD OF MAN

THE COMMUNION OF SPIRITS AND THE MINISTRY OF ANGELS

THE CONTINUOUS EXISTENCE OF THE HUMAN SOUL

PERSONAL RESPONSIBILITY

COMPENSATION AND RETRIBUTION HEREAFTER FOR ALL THE GOOD AND EVIL DEEDS DONE ON EARTH

ETERNAL PROGRESS OPEN TO EVERY HUMAN SOUL


It's down to individual choice as to how each person perceives any one of the principles. For the majority of it's followers Spiritualism becomes a way of life.

mac
08-09-2011, 04:35 AM
Could spiritualism be considered a form of unorganized religion?


Do you mean Modern Spiritualism, the science, philosophy and religion (in the UK) or do you mean 'spiritualism' the state/practice of being spiritual? (whatever that means) Did you know they are not the same?

If you meant the former, why might you think Spiritualism is "unorganised"?

deepsea
09-09-2011, 04:10 PM
I remember once looking through the telephone directory for the name of the local spiritualist church. We had just recently moved in to a new area.

There was no such thing in the classified area.
Had to ask around the new neighbours if there was one in the area.
So assumed at that time the spiritualist church was not classed as a religion.

mac
10-09-2011, 12:54 AM
I remember once looking through the telephone directory for the name of the local spiritualist church. We had just recently moved in to a new area.

There was no such thing in the classified area.
Had to ask around the new neighbours if there was one in the area.
So assumed at that time the spiritualist church was not classed as a religion.

Places will be in directories etc. only if someone pays for a phone line or advert.

For anyone searching for a Modern Spiritualist church then 'Diary Dates' in local papers often carry upcoming events but as you're reading this you're likely online.... In that case a Google search should readily yields church lists and lots of other information. All one needs to do is to look for the nearest local church.

As for Modern Spiritualism being a legally-recognised religion, it's been that way since mid last-century.

jorddy
10-09-2011, 06:31 AM
Could spiritualism be considered a form of unorganized religion?


I dont look at spiritualism as religion at all actually. I feel religion is based on others teaching and thats why I love spirituality. I depend solely on the world and spirit to guide me. I learn from the world around me, and I believe from what feels right to me inside.

deepsea
10-09-2011, 06:42 AM
Places will be in directories etc. only if someone pays for a phone line or advert.

For anyone searching for a Modern Spiritualist church then 'Diary Dates' in local papers often carry upcoming events but as you're reading this you're likely online.... In that case a Google search should readily yields church lists and lots of other information. All one needs to do is to look for the nearest local church.

As for Modern Spiritualism being a legally-recognised religion, it's been that way since mid last-century.

Thanks Mac,I'm going back a few years ago now.
The internet wasn't known then,or if it was,not many folks had comps.
So it was a case of asking around which I did,was readily given the information I wanted.

psychoslice
10-09-2011, 06:45 AM
Yes it could but the day they called spiritualism, they in a way caused it to be organised, with their dogma and ideologies.

deepsea
10-09-2011, 11:05 AM
In the Uk Spiritualism became a recognised religion after the passing of the Fraudulents Mediums Act of 1952. This act has be superceeded by the Trading Standards Act which was passed in the last two years or so - sorry cant remember the date.

Spiritualism is a religion follows the 7 Principles first layed down by Emma Hardinge Britain. It began on the 31 March 1848 at Hydesville New York State with the Fox Sisters interpritting the raps of a spirit (Charles Rosna) into a legible system. Before this time there had been recogniseable raps but no one had had a two way conversation.

PS Spiritualism has its own Ministers who can marry two people as do other Priests, Vicars etc (yes a registrar has to be present). We also have funerals and Christenings/naming ceremonies as other churches. We celebrate Easter,Christmas etc, but also some places celebrate Hydesville Day. Unlike other religions we can have two names, especially for those who are 'named' as an adult. We have the name we were called by our parents but also those given to us by/in the Spirit World.

Unfortunately I did not know that the spiritualist church had their own ministers for wedding,funerals etc.
When my husband died,I asked all over the area trying to find a minister of the spirit church but no one seemed to know.
Of course as is usual,I found one after the funeral.
:rolleyes:

Skye
10-09-2011, 11:40 AM
Yes it could but the day they called spiritualism, they in a way caused it to be organised, with their dogma and ideologies.


Hi pschoslice,

Could you please tell me where the the dogma is within Spiritualism?

mac
10-09-2011, 01:52 PM
Yes it could but the day they called spiritualism, they in a way caused it to be organised, with their dogma and ideologies.

As usual you speak about things on which you have no understanding, psycho...

Why not learn about a subject before you talk about it, eh? Just for a change...

Trieah
17-09-2011, 03:23 AM
Thank you all for the responses. Sadly, I wound up losing my internet connection the same day I asked the question, so I wasn't able to join in on the conversation.

But I'm back now, and eager to read all these responses.

mac
17-09-2011, 03:43 AM
Thank you all for the responses. Sadly, I wound up losing my internet connection the same day I asked the question, so I wasn't able to join in on the conversation.

But I'm back now, and eager to read all these responses.

It's good you came back - many don't.....

Trieah
17-09-2011, 04:52 AM
Well I must say, I'm very pleased with all this new information. I myself, do feel there is a connection between spiritualism and religion. With all the people I've met over the years who seem more spiritually based, there just always seemed to be some kind of a religious type connection, regardless of what particular beliefs the individual follows. To be honest, it kind of reminds me of how Christianity has so many different offshoots in doctrines and beliefs.

Do you mean Modern Spiritualism, the science, philosophy and religion (in the UK) or do you mean 'spiritualism' the state/practice of being spiritual? (whatever that means) Did you know they are not the same?

If you meant the former, why might you think Spiritualism is "unorganised"?

To be honest, I really wasn't aware that there was a difference between the two. They both just feel like "right" concepts to me, that I suppose I probably lump them into the same category. And while I've only heard about spiritual churches in passing, I've also had to endure too much controversy over the subject, to have to wonder what others thought about the connection between religion and spirituality.

I come from a place where a particular person loves to make a huge stink about how spiritualism has absolutely nothing to do with religion. This person is so completely anti religion of any kind, that it seems to be some kind of personal insult to even think there could be any kind of connections between the two, since this person is so pro individualized spiritualism. I suppose the reason why I chose to ask if spiritualism could be a form of "unorganized" religion, was based around this person's complete and utter disdain for organized religion in general, and that the state of being spiritual can be so highly personal, that it's too hard to pin point it down to any one (or several) doctrines, and therefore "unorganized" so to speak.

This other person and I are both moderators at a paranormal message board which is supposed to be open to all things concerning paranormal world and universe mysteries. And I just get so tired of seeing people who try to talk about all the different connections to the phenomenon of spirit contact, being accused of "preaching" religion, just because their experiences with the spirit world, or their spirituality has religious connotations to it. And yet, it's perfectly fine for this same person to "preach" their beliefs on spirituality.

So in essence, in starting up this thread, I wanted to gain some more insight into the subject, so I can have more things to consider when I try to defend the rights of our members who actually do believe there is a connection.

So I thank you all for your contributions to this highly controversial subject over at the place I mod at. Please, if any of you have more to add to what's already been said, I will gladly listen.

Trieah
17-09-2011, 04:56 AM
It's good you came back - many don't.....

Are you kidding me?!?!?! I LOVE this place!!!!! I'm like a kid in a candy story on this message board. The atmosphere is ssssooooooo different and much more friendly then the place I mod at. Y'all can't get rid of me that easy :wink: LOL

mac
17-09-2011, 02:35 PM
Trieah Well I must say, I'm very pleased with all this new information. I myself, do feel there is a connection between spiritualism and religion. With all the people I've met over the years who seem more spiritually based, there just always seemed to be some kind of a religious type connection, regardless of what particular beliefs the individual follows. To be honest, it kind of reminds me of how Christianity has so many different offshoots in doctrines and beliefs.



To be honest, I really wasn't aware that there was a difference between the two. I get the feeling you still are not following what I wrote and asked about.. 'Spiritualism' isn't 'spiritualism' as I tried to explain..Take a look at the title of this forum and the umbrella heading it sits under.....They both just feel like "right" concepts to me, that I suppose I probably lump them into the same category. I see that - I've failed to make any impression....And while I've only heard about spiritual churches -Are you meaning 'Spiritualist' churches? in passing, I've also had to endure too much controversy over the subject, to have to wonder what others thought about the connection between religion and spirituality. See how you've switched from Spiritualism to spirituality? If you're now meaning 'spirituality' it's another topic altogether.....

I come from a place where a particular person loves to make a huge stink about how spiritualism has absolutely nothing to do with religion. This person is so completely anti religion of any kind, that it seems to be some kind of personal insult to even think there could be any kind of connections between the two, since this person is so pro individualized spiritualism. Plainly now you're speaking about 'spiritualism' as a general concept of being spiritual etc. I suppose the reason why I chose to ask if spiritualism could be a form of "unorganized" religion, was based around this person's complete and utter disdain for organized religion in general, and that the state of being spiritual can be so highly personal, that it's too hard to pin point it down to any one (or several) doctrines, and therefore "unorganized" so to speak. It has near driven me wild in the past - and it still grates - that folk don't understand what Modern Spiritualism is and that they still speak with confusion about these wholly different concepts. It's why I increasingly use the Modern Spiritualism description to try to distinguish one from the other - and I still fail. :icon_frown:

This other person and I are both moderators at a paranormal message board which is supposed to be open to all things concerning paranormal world and universe mysteries. I sometimes follow such websites and their forums but so much 'junk' gets talked about that I contribute to them only rarely....And I just get so tired of seeing people who try to talk about all the different connections to the phenomenon of spirit contact, So many really don't understand what this means - the ones who speak about it might understand but others might not or vice versa.....being accused of "preaching" religion, just because their experiences with the spirit world, or their spirituality has religious connotations to it. And yet, it's perfectly fine for this same person to "preach" their beliefs on spirituality. It's perhaps time you found a less contentious website? But as a moderator isn't your role simply to moderate rather than become involved with the topic?

So in essence, in starting up this thread, I wanted to gain some more insight into the subject, so I can have more things to consider when I try to defend the rights of our members who actually do believe there is a connection. I hope that by now you'll see a different picture to what you knew before? Because there's such poor understanding on this subject - I've seen that consistently over several years of forum work - one needs to have a thorough understanding to be able to explain the situation. I'll apologise now if this sounds unkind but moderators in my experience rarely understand that Spiritualism and spiritualism are not the same and can't define either one effectively.

So I thank you all for your contributions to this highly controversial subject over at the place I mod at. I'm used to being in websites where such controversy is commonplace - SF being just one of them - and used to debating the issues I've expanded on here, along with other aspects of the world of the spirit generally. Please, if any of you have more to add to what's already been said, I will gladly listen. I hope I've given you a few more thoughts?

mac
17-09-2011, 02:44 PM
Are you kidding me?!?!?! I LOVE this place!!!!! I'm like a kid in a candy story on this message board. The atmosphere is ssssooooooo different and much more friendly then the place I mod at. Y'all can't get rid of me that easy :wink: LOL

I didn't want to be rid of you. :hug2:

As a seasoned forum contributor, though, I see many threads started and the starter then disappears. I call 'em 'tyre kickers' - folks who wander around looking at cars without any intention of going any further than kicking the tyres as if they're considering buying. I've wasted so much time and effort on such individuals that I no longer answer as I used to. I sus 'em out first.....

SF can be a fruitful place but also a hurtful one - I speak from experience of that. And I've battled long and hard about Modern Spiritualism because of all the rubbish that gets dumped in this forum when folks don't know, or don't care, that it's not about 'spirituality'.

And I've had my moments with moderators. :wink:

deepsea
17-09-2011, 05:03 PM
:D I know that,Mac!:wink:

mac
17-09-2011, 05:13 PM
:D I know that,Mac!:wink:

shhhhh.....say no more :D

deepsea
17-09-2011, 05:19 PM
shhhhh.....say no more :D

Revenge is sweet,dead as a doornail now.
:rolleyes:

Trieah
18-09-2011, 02:27 AM
Well Mac, if I do still seem too confused about the differences, then I shall be happy to learn as much about it as I can, if you're willing to discus it with me :smile:

Forgive me if I've been mixing Spiritualism and spirituality. You see, there's been no real distinction made between the two over at that other board I mod at. There's just a bunch of "wrist slapping" by the other mod towards anyone who has the audacity to speak of anything even remotely "religious based". Sure, we can talk about our spirit guides and even give their names if it happened to be a historical person. But if your guide just happens to be an Angel, or even Jesus, that automatically means you're trying to "preach" religion just by talking about your experiences with them. If you say God, instead of Universe or Creative Source, you are "preaching". It's hypocrisy at its finest. Hell, just about the only time it seems to be ok to even mention Jesus' name is if it has something to do with poking fun at religion. Personally, I think he's just as capable at being a good spirit guide as any other spirit guide out there. It's not his fault people have gotten all carried away with turning religion into something they can have control over. His message always was, is and always will be about love, peace and forgiveness. NOT hate or kill everyone who isn't like you.

So yes, if you can enlighten me all the differences you speak about, I would be most grateful. Not only so that I can have enough of an understanding about each of these subjects, to be able to come to the defence of others, but also, so I can see if the religious aspect of which you speak, is something that resonates with my enough to call it my religion. At the moment, I don't actually claim any religion because I haven't quite found what I'm looking for just yet.

I didn't want to be rid of you. :hug2:

Heh, that was just my way of being silly :wink:

mac
18-09-2011, 03:29 AM
Trieah

Well Mac, if I do still seem too confused about the differences, then I shall be happy to learn as much about it as I can, if you're willing to discus it with me :smile: As in the past I'm always prepared to try to help when asked.

Forgive me if I've been mixing Spiritualism and spirituality. No need for forgiving but it's a fundamental difference...Many have done much as you - confused one with another. You see, there's been no real distinction made between the two over at that other board I mod at. Presumably that's because no-one there knows? There's just a bunch of "wrist slapping" by the other mod towards anyone who has the audacity to speak of anything even remotely "religious based". I'd say, then, that any such moderator (or member) needs to be totally ignored unless one is posting in an inappropriate forum - even then wrist-slapping is uncalled for.... As for the aspect of religion again it's not an issue for wrist-slapping but if you stay on such a forum then you have to live by what's goin' down there - you don't have to stay of course....

Religion is a personal issue, not for someone to rubbish although I do see challenge as acceptable if it's done on the basis of facts and is not done in a nasty way..... Sure, we can talk about our spirit guides and even give their names if it happened to be a historical person. Now you've drifted away into a field which is pretty contentious as 'spirit guides' are little understood and often greatly misunderstood.... But if your guide just happens to be an Angel, Here we're way off the 'Spiritualism' forum subjects.... or even Jesus Getting worse...., that automatically means you're trying to "preach" religion just by talking about your experiences with them. I would once have had plenty to say about such claims as I see many of them as fanciful and generally unsubstantiated.... If you say God, instead of Universe or Creative Source, you are "preaching". I too have my preference but I leave it to others to use the word that sits most comfortably with them - even when it doesn't sit comfortably with me.... It's hypocrisy at its finest. Then why continue to put up with it? Hell, just about the only time it seems to be ok to even mention Jesus' name is if it has something to do with poking fun at religion. I can't comment because I don't know the context... Personally, I think he's just as capable at being a good spirit guide as any other spirit guide out there. Contentious again... How can anyone know it's the Nazarene of Biblical times who's a so-called guide? It's not his fault people have gotten all carried away with turning religion into something they can have control over. agreed His message always was, is and always will be about love, peace and forgiveness. NOT hate or kill everyone who isn't like you. agreed totally Jesus was a great teacher, healer and medium.

So yes, if you can enlighten me all the differences you speak about, I would be most grateful. I don't have the time or space to detail every small difference but I hope you've got a flavour for what I have frequently discussed over the years? Not only so that I can have enough of an understanding about each of these subjects, to be able to come to the defence of others, but also, so I can see if the religious aspect of which you speak, is something that resonates with my enough to call it my religion. For all that you'd have to research the situation until you're comfortable you've understood all you need to - often not easy to assess that in my experience. I can't tell you everything you might feel you need/want because of the same time/space constraints and also because it's not my role anyway - I'm not a teacher. At the moment, I don't actually claim any religion because I haven't quite found what I'm looking for just yet. That's fine but I can't find one for you if it's what you really want. Religion is often a compendium of beliefs and faith in what's not understood and for which there is precious little actual evidence. Such religions wouldn't do for me as I don't do either belief or faith. If I don't see evidence of what's being taught, if I'm expected to believe or have faith in something because it's written in some book, then I won't go down that path. Others will choose their own paths and that I accept.



Heh, that was just my way of being silly :wink: way to go! :hug2:

Gem
18-09-2011, 04:12 AM
Could spiritualism be considered a form of unorganized religion?

No... it is organized just as religion is and you'll notice so many tell you what 'spiritualizm' is and expect you to conform to their notions, but like Mork said to the egg 'Fly, be free'

Trieah
18-09-2011, 06:41 AM
You're probably right in that no one on that board knows the difference either :wink: LOL. I totally agree that "wrist slapping" is uncalled for. That's why I tend to go out of my way to try and soften the blow by the other mod by trying to make the poster feel more welcomed then unwelcomed. In truth, this mod is the only one there who really raises a big stink about "preaching religion", and will flat out tell people to go away if the mod feels offended by what's been said. Funny how it's perfectly ok for this mod to "preach" paganism from time to time though, LOL. Sadly, that message board is no where near as active as it once was. I've heard that it's mostly due to this mod. And you're right, I could leave it all together. And for the most part, I kind of have. I spend a hell of a lot more time on this message board then over there anyway. Far better stimulating conversations over here :wink: But, I am still a moderator over there. Our admin is hardly ever around any more, so it's pretty much just the two of us in charge. Though I must admit, the sever lack of activity on the board makes it easier to monitor the threads, LOL.

Heh, while my examples may be way off base as to what Spiritualism really is, that IS the kind of stuff that has been happening over there :wink: But I do agree that religion is a highly personal issue for everyone. I just happen to think everyone should be just as respectful of other people's beliefs as they want other people to be respectful of their beliefs. And I don't think that belief automatically means I'm wishy washy in what I believe, like I've been accused of by this other mod, LOL.

ROTFLOL! No, I'm not asking you to find a religion for me. Oh dear, I hope I don't come off sounding like a little lost wandering sheep looking for shelter, LOL. I'd just like to hear more about this religion to see if I can fit in with this group. I don't really consider myself "lost", just searching for others that are at least enough like me, to know I'm not completely alone. But who knows, I may never find a group of people that I can mesh well enough with to find that unity that religion tends to foster. Perhaps I'm more of a lone wolf then a lost sheep, LOL. I do prise my ability to think for myself instead of just buying into what ever I hear from someone else. It has to make sense to me personally, in order for me to rally behind it. But at the same time, I will do my best to remain open and respect other people's beliefs. In truth, to me, that's kind of what I was under the impression that being more spiritual then religious was all about. BUT, is that what you've been trying to tell me Spiritualism is all about???

Starting up this thread was the first time I've ventured into this particular forum. Perhaps I need to spend a little more time reading some of the threads in here to get a better grasp as to what its really about.