Cross Eyed & Goal Less

[not human]

Doesn't the creation of goals or affirmations imply a negation to the present moment experience ? Meaning if you are choosing to create an alternate state of existance than you are bypassing self acceptance. Does total self acceptance create a balance that voids the need to create goals? ......

[Xan]

Goals only negate the present moment experience when you cling to them.

In fact you can form goals only Now, and you can accept your urge to do that.

It's only the clinging that keeps you trapped in futurizing (or memory-absorbed) mind and missing the sweetness of this moment.


Xan

[nightowl]

Doesn't the creation of goals or affirmations imply a negation to the present moment experience ? Meaning if you are choosing to create an alternate state of existance than you are bypassing self acceptance. Does total self acceptance create a balance that voids the need to create goals? This will be fun.......

Are you referring to goals that are directed towards self? For me self accepting is the most freeing thing there is but that doesn't negate the possibility of bettering ones self through self improvement, but then again I don't tie goals to self improvements either. Confused yet...:D

nightowl

[not human]

Goals only negate the present moment experience when you cling to them.

In fact you can form goals only Now, and you can accept your urge to do that.

It's only the clinging that keeps you trapped in futurizing (or memory-absorbed) mind and missing the sweetness of this moment.


Xan


Point taken Xan. But from a point of total self realization do you want to flip switches.......is that valid??:D

[Docha]

What if the goal is to make the moment lead into another?

To never have a goal creates stasis. Not a good plan for a constant changing universe.

Self acceptance realizes the wants of the self and is ok with that.

[not human]

Are you referring to goals that are directed towards self? For me self accepting is the most freeing thing there is but that doesn't negate the possibility of bettering ones self through self improvement, but then again I don't tie goals to self improvements either. Confused yet...:D

nightowl

Thats what I am hinting at Night Owl that total self acceptance negates the need for improvement. I have been looking at this for a while & it helps me to justify my lazy aimless existance ...if I am proved wrong I might have to go back to trying to improve myself ....yuck :icon_eek:

[not human]

What if the goal is to make the moment lead into another?

To never have a goal creates stasis. Not a good plan for a constant changing universe.

Self acceptance realizes the wants of the self and is ok with that.


Look lady I warned you....get some sleep you nutter :hug3:

[Docha]

Look lady I warned you....get some sleep you nutter :hug3:

Can't a frog who may be a prince is texting...lol

[not human]

Can't a frog who may be a prince is texting...lol

I rest my case :D

[Silver]

Look lady I warned you....get some sleep you nutter :hug3:


Sheesh, I must need some sleep too ~~~ that made perfect sense to me!

Thumbs up, D~

[nightowl]

Thats what I am hinting at Night Owl that total self acceptance negates the need for improvement. I have been looking at this for a while & it helps me to justify my lazy aimless existance ...if I am proved wrong I might have to go back to trying to improve myself ....yuck :icon_eek:

Why is self acceptance tied to laziness? Does being a non conformist make one lazy? Now if your are referring to poor hygiene and rudeness. well that a whole new kettle of fish :fish: :D

nightowl

[not human]

Are you referring to goals that are directed towards self? For me self accepting is the most freeing thing there is but that doesn't negate the possibility of bettering ones self through self improvement, but then again I don't tie goals to self improvements either. Confused yet...:D

nightowl

Sorry Night Owl I didn't read this properly before answering.........I would assume that in any reach into bettering ones self there is a point of non acceptance of the present self other wise why would you bother ....I don't want to get bogged down with terminology here.........so what I am curious about is is the ultimate realization self acceptance ........and is any desire to change circumstances twarting this realization

[not human]

Why is self acceptance tied to laziness? Does being a non conformist make one lazy? Now if your are referring to poor hygiene and rudeness. well that a whole new kettle of fish :fish: :D

nightowl

Look I shower at least once a month:D no the callibre of laziness I'm talking is the avoidance of using any effort to change ie set goals etc .......laziness is a fun word to use is all ...a better word might be ....um......gee......self acceptance:hug3:

[not human]

Sheesh, I must need some sleep too ~~~ that made perfect sense to me!

Thumbs up, D~


OK ...OK ....so a total point of self acceptance .........right ......you are in the moment ..........completely in harmony with your human experience ......why would the need arise to set a goal??? Just asking is all :D

[Xan]

Point taken Xan. But from a point of total self realization do you want to flip switches.......is that valid??:D

There is no flipping switches, nh... When you are fully present you may sometimes form goals as part of your humanness, yet do it with non-clinging.

Everything in our human and spiritual experiencing comes and goes in whole silent awareness.


Xan

[Silver]

OK ...OK ....so a total point of self acceptance .........right ......you are in the moment ..........completely in harmony with your human experience ......why would the need arise to set a goal??? Just asking is all :D


Ahem...they call these things threads ~ I think some should be termed yarn, so we can roll around and play with them like kitty kats, heeheehee~*

[Docha]

Sorry Night Owl I didn't read this properly before answering.........I would assume that in any reach into bettering ones self there is a point of non acceptance of the present self other wise why would you bother ....I don't want to get bogged down with terminology here.........so what I am curious about is is the ultimate realization self acceptance ........and is any desire to change circumstances twarting this realization

Honestly I think self acceptance would realize that you are lazy, are ambitious, are calm, nervous, etc. That the self is ever changing as emotions and thoughts are.

So you're never truely defined as one thing. If you are you're in denial...no?

[not human]

There is no flipping switches, nh... When you are fully present you may sometimes form goals as part of your humanness, yet do it with non-clinging.

Everything in our human and spiritual experiencing comes and goes in whole silent awareness.


Xan


OK my own experience at this point is pushing me totally toward being open to al things but not actively persuing .......that & allowing heart to light the way I am having no interplay in areas of goal setting or otherwise it seems to be at cross purposes with my acceptance of self

[not human]

Ahem...they call these things threads ~ I think some should be termed yarn, so we can roll around and play with them like kitty kats, heeheehee~*


MEOW:D :tongue:

[nightowl]

:confused2: :BangHead: :tongue3: ......:rolleyes: :smile:


nightowl

[Xan]

OK my own experience at this point is pushing me totally toward being open to al things but not actively persuing .......that & allowing heart to light the way I am having no interplay in areas of goal setting or otherwise it seems to be at cross purposes with my acceptance of self

I'm not sure what you said but it sounds like your goal is fully accepting yourself. eh?

Accepting does not being passive, but has a different quality of allowing yourself to be as you are, including maybe having a goal here and there... until they're no longer needed.

One of my mottos: Accepting is the key to getting free.

Freedom has long been my goal.


Xan

[not human]

Honestly I think self acceptance would realize that you are lazy, are ambitious, are calm, nervous, etc. That the self is ever changing as emotions and thoughts are.

So you're never truely defined as one thing. If you are you're in denial...no?

Yeah D from my limited experience is there is constant shifting but an underlying sense of wonder ...so again doesn't self acceptance lead you :D naturally anyway....I may be changing the course of this or it might mutate ....whatever

[not human]

I'm not sure what you said but it sounds like your goal is fully accepting yourself. eh?

Accepting does not being passive, but has a different quality of allowing yourself to be as you are, including maybe having a goal here and there... until they're no longer needed.

One of my mottos: Accepting is the key to getting free.

Freedom has long been my goal.


Xan


No way...you know me better than that.......self acceptance is an approach to me... a way of being ...to have a goal of self acceptance installs a middle man ....its the setting of goals in a spiritual practice that I am queationing...

[nightowl]

....its the setting of goals in a spiritual practice that I am queationing...

This to me is not necessary, just let what comes to you give you direction, I think goals in spiritual matters can be misleading...

nightowl

[Xan]

Well then... you have a goal of having no goals?

How about instead of a 'goal' you have a clear intention. That's a good term for 'the direction you want to go ahead in'... without the mindi-ness of 'goal'.

Without clear intention there's just meandering.


Xan

[not human]

Well then... you have a goal of having no goals?

How about instead of a 'goal' you have a clear intention. That's a good term for 'the direction you want to go ahead in'... without the mindi-ness of 'goal'.

Without clear intention there's just meandering.


Xan


No we're still not on the money.......but thats OK .........:hug3:

[nightowl]

Well then... you have a goal of having no goals?

How about instead of a 'goal' you have a clear intention. That's a good term for 'the direction you want to go ahead in'... without the mindi-ness of 'goal'.

Without clear intention there's just meandering.


Xan

I like this Xan...I guess I am just missing what is being sought, sorry not human:dontknow: :smile:

nightowl

[not human]

I like this Xan...I guess I am just missing what is being sought, sorry not human:dontknow: :smile:

nightowl


Its fine Owl ......limitations of a public school education :smile:

[Xan]

So....not to beat the horse even deader... what would be on the money for you?

Are you saying that your spiritual sense has no direction the mind can identify?

Or that you want that direction to come from a higher level than goals and even intention do?

Or, like me, do you have a sense that you are being lead on... and on... and you seem to get to choose to surrender into what is inevitable?


Xan

[nightowl]

Its fine Owl ......limitations of a public school education :smile:


hmmmm...okayyyy??????

[not human]

So....not to beat the horse even deader... what would be on the money for you?

Are you saying that your spiritual sense has no direction the mind can identify?

Or that you want that direction to come from a higher level than goals and even intention do?

Or, like me, do you have a sense that you are being lead on... and on... and you seem to get to choose to surrender into what is inevitable?


Xan


I'll take option number 3 ma'am .........& from that vantage point is where the question is coming from........

[Xan]

Option 3 it is then...

Brilliant


blessings
Xan

[not human]

hmmmm...okayyyy??????
No my education not yours........from this point on I am under a doona :D

[not human]

I actually now have decided to have a goal....that this thread crawls away & dies a millions deaths in the land of dead threads ...drop dead thread!!!!!

[Perfect Storm]

If we didnt plan ahead with goals, would we as a species be where we are today?

I for one am planning to improve my fitness. IF I didnt plan this and just went day by day - would that mean I never do anything towards it.

Unfortunately this world doesnt not work by the way of doing in that present moment - not all the time.

[andrew g]

Doesn't the creation of goals or affirmations imply a negation to the present moment experience ? Meaning if you are choosing to create an alternate state of existance than you are bypassing self acceptance. Does total self acceptance create a balance that voids the need to create goals? ......

I think that in theory total acceptance would void any need to set goals, but before we get to that stage there comes a point where we are in a high degree of self acceptance and are very surrendered TO setting goals, even if the goal is simply to get to the supermarket to get some food for dinner. I have come to see that setting goals happens and that being in the Now is a myth to some degree. In my experience thinking about the future still happens and remembering the past still happens, even if its just recalling my bank pin number. What I would say though is that both planning and remembering happens without so much sense of a planner or rememberer, so it all happens a lot more spontaneously than it used to.

There may come a time when being in the Now is literally as it says, but if thats the case, I think the whole world will have to change. Though there are reported cases of Indian spiritual masters who spend weeks on end in silent meditation without food and drink, the Western mind and Western soul doesnt seem to do that perhaps because our culture and local environment doesnt support it.

[Docha]

I rest my case :D

I didn't think my sanity was in debate? Lol

I don't proclaim to be sane. :tongue:

[Xan]

If we didnt plan ahead with goals, would we as a species be where we are today?
Well ummm... We humans didn't set a goal of evolution of all species, did we?

Life force itself creates and evolves. We can trust that momentum in ourselves and our lives.


Xan

[Docha]

Yeah D from my limited experience is there is constant shifting but an underlying sense of wonder ...so again doesn't self acceptance lead you :D naturally anyway....I may be changing the course of this or it might mutate ....whatever

Well, what happens then when you're accepting yourself fully? Do you change the way you act or react?

Like you, I rarely have the motivation to do my dirty dishes. When I am full of energy and feel like moving, I become inspired to do them. I'm ok in my messy house, AND I am ok in my clean house. Its not a matter of self improvement. I accept that I am a chaotic organizer.

My laziness is based on my energy level honestly. When I'm in insomnia mode, and thinking discussing mode, other things take a back seat. When regular sleep is back on the cycle I take the world by storm. I don't feel anything needs to change by my force. Yet changes still occur due to my lack of motivation, ie: the forums and different thought exposure. Real world interactions and lessons.

So you could say its self acceptance that fuels it I suppose. Yet it doesn't seem to sound correct that self acceptance is a motivator or demotivater.

Self acceptance seems to be more a state of mind at any given point than something you become. I dunno, that is just me.

If you're only accepting that you are lazy, you're not accepting the ambitious side...becarefull of tunnel vision iregards to the self. Like tunnel vision with others it leads to biased judgements that often have no real foundation.

[Docha]

I actually now have decided to have a goal....that this thread crawls away & dies a millions deaths in the land of dead threads ...drop dead thread!!!!!

We could just derail it instead, lust for life got back on track now where are we gonna play???

I think its a curse you have human, your thoughts don't just vannish, they take on a life of their own! Lol

[Silver]

I accept that I am a chaotic organizer.



I admit er accept it too. See ya at the meetings~*

[Docha]

I admit er accept it too. See ya at the meetings~*

Lol!

When is the next one? I missplaced my calander as I was cleaning...