Once human, always human?

[Chalk1990]

If you are created by our creator to be human, will all your incarnations be you as a human? or could you incarnate as an alien life form on a different planet than earth?

Also, can animals be incarnated into humans in their future of being souls?

There was a rumor about a woman who had a guardian angel who was a demon, but was revived, and saved by the light of god, this touches my heart deeply, and reflects my questions, could a lesser being, become a greater or more developed being/soul/spirit?

Non dogmatic opinions, or life experiences please.

[Time]

When we die everything that makes you up is broken down, and inevitable used to create more life. When the planet explodes ( its inevitable, but not for a few billion years), then all of the stuff that was used to make the earth, will be used to make stars and other planets.

So, i wouldnt call it "incarnating", but technicaly you are right. Eventualy, if theres other life out there, what ever "you" are, will be used to create something else;

[moke64916]

Can we incarnate as an alien, not in human forum?

Humans are just one species of the Cosmos. 'I' may incarnate whatever I choose to be. Remember souls have freewill. You may incarnate in any life form you so choose. You may also return to the One. The Cosmic Consciousness. Return to All That Is, life is a continual process. The Cosmic wheel as mystics refer to. Return to All That Is, the One. Or choose freedom of instantaneous thought manifestation, as souls, you think a thought, you are instantaneously there. All of Me, which is All That Is has free will. You may incarnate as any life form on any planet in any Galaxy. It would go against the Laws of the Universe I've set forth. In the beginning All That Is divided itself. But All That Is is still One. Just spread throughout the Cosmos. Get rid of separation, you can experience heaven on earth. All That Was, All That Is, And All That Ever Will Be is happening right now. Explanation would complex the human mind. The life process, or the Cosmic Wheel goes on. There gave been so calked 'aliens' incarnated as human form on earth.

[Topology]

When we die everything that makes you up is broken down, and inevitable used to create more life. When the planet explodes ( its inevitable, but not for a few billion years), then all of the stuff that was used to make the earth, will be used to make stars and other planets.

So, i wouldnt call it "incarnating", but technicaly you are right. Eventualy, if theres other life out there, what ever "you" are, will be used to create something else;


That's kind of how I view reincarnation. As the spirit leave the body, all that unresolved psychological and emotional **** get's lodged in the global unconscious mind. When a new spirit comes in to inhabit the body, some of that **** get's attached to the soul and the newborn gets the "honor" of working through someone else's left over garbage.

[Lisa]

It looks to be more impersonal than that. Unconscious energy manifesting. Until Conscious.

[CelestialRain]

I view it differently: once someone passes their soul can choose to be reincarnated, or to stay as a spirit. However, with each choice they make, they gain more and advance more spiritually until they are highly spiritually advanced. Normally, people who are very psychic and intuitive have been reincarnated many times and have gained more than people who have been reincarnated a less number of times. Of course, I believe you can choose to be reincarnated as a plant, animal, sea creature, etc.--each one brings a new level of development and each one helps gain more to the higher self.

[BlueSky]

If you are created by our creator to be human, will all your incarnations be you as a human? or could you incarnate as an alien life form on a different planet than earth?

Also, can animals be incarnated into humans in their future of being souls?

There was a rumor about a woman who had a guardian angel who was a demon, but was revived, and saved by the light of god, this touches my heart deeply, and reflects my questions, could a lesser being, become a greater or more developed being/soul/spirit?

Non dogmatic opinions, or life experiences please.

You might find The Tibetan Wheel of Life interesting as it offers possible answers to your question. It is interesting at the very least.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bhavacakra and
http://www.angelfire.com/yt/fairtibet/whexpl.html

[moke64916]

Souls may reincarnate of and when their choosing. In any Galaxy as anything they so wish to. Freewill.

[Enlightener]

could a lesser being, become a greater or more developed being/soul/spirit?

Is that not the facet of evolution?

[Silver]

Souls may reincarnate of and when their choosing. In any Galaxy as anything they so wish to. Freewill.


So, when do we get the brochure?

[moke64916]

So, when do we get the brochure?
Yes, in your heart.

[Silver]

Yes, in your heart.


I know I sometimes come off sounding like a smarty-pants, but really would like someone to explain how it happens ~ so this stuff kinda happens spontaneously? How does one know where one can go if you never knew before? Is it due to being 'preprogrammed (via dna or whatever)? I mean if people are seeming to 'know' stuff, I personally would like more filling in of any missing pieces of info. Ty~

[Seperate_Reality]

First of all, in my opinion, we should define human-being.
We are each non-physical, immortal, (can never die or be killed) spiritual "beings" and are not the mortal, (will die, can be killed) physical, "human" body we operate (for a physical experience) and view in a mirror. We each don't "have" a soul or spirit, because we each "are" a soul or spirit.
See, we each are not really Human, but are "natevly" non-physical, immortal, spiritual beings and only operate a human body (like a car) and are not that body or anything else that makes up the physical world reality, which is non-native to us. We each (you and me) were around long before anything of a physical nature was created. We each started operating physical human bodies for a physical type experience and playing the physical world game. Something happened long ago and we each "forgot" the above. After we forgot, we got stuck in the physical body birth-death cycle, of going through a succession of different lifetimes with a new baby physical body for each lifetime. We forget our previous lifetime each time we start a new lifetime.
It's similar to playing a character in a virtual type video game and "forgetting" you are playing a game and now consider this virtual game world is real or native to you and in truth it is not. The physical universe is not native to us. How could it be, when we are each non-physical, immortal, spiritual beings and are not positioned in Time or in Space, but only "think" that we are...
We each need to have quite a bit going for ourselves, to be able to get a new human baby body (not much harmful drug use and keeping a high moral standard) and sometimes get an animal body to operate instead. Sometimes our previous life as a human being was difficult with hardships and would rather get an animal body in our next lifetime, as a pampered dog or cat. As far as operating a physical body on an Alien planet...I don't get into those type of discussions or talk much about it. Human-beings should be learning true spiritual basics on a gradient, (enlightenment or whatever term used) before trying to learn advanced spirituality.

[moke64916]

I know I sometimes come off sounding like a smarty-pants, but really would like someone to explain how it happens ~ so this stuff kinda happens spontaneously? How does one know where one can go if you never knew before? Is it due to being 'preprogrammed (via dna or whatever)? I mean if people are seeming to 'know' stuff, I personally would like more filling in of any missing pieces of info. Ty~
It's a matter of REMEMBERING who you are. As souls we know all. Once that mind, body, spirit unification is made, you start remembering. A knowing. So I stick to my words. "the answers lie in your heart."

[Silver]

It's a matter of REMEMBERING who you are. As souls we know all. Once that mind, body, spirit unification is made, you start remembering. A knowing. So I stick to my words. "the answers lie in your heart."



To me, it sounds like we're all been around a long time, but aren't there any New souls? Surely there must be somewhere. That's what I don't get. If you've never experienced the future lives and places you're going to end up, how can you command where you are, who you are and where you end up? That just doesn't make any sense to me. And I'd like to understand it better.

[moke64916]

All souls were created at the same time. Other souls may be more evolved than others. In the spirit world you have probably heard of school's up there. The guides and teachers up there, the teachings are about remembering who you are. As souls we think a thought and we are there instantly. Remember, we are God. God is us. As souls we learn to control our thoughts for that they instantly manifest. You can do whatever you wish as a soul. Three choices:
1) allow your uncontrollable thoughts to create the moment
2) allow your creative consciousness to create the moment
3) allow the collective conscious create the moment( by returning to the One. Heaven)

[Silver]

So, someone who chooses #3 chooses to stay 'up there' and never return as a recycled soul/spirit in a human or other earth entity?

[moke64916]

Souls have freewill just like we do.

[Greybeard]

Is it possible that there is no reincarnation? That when you die, you are dead and gone? My question is...What is it that is reincarnated?

If birth and death are simply the beginning and final ending of "You", is that a catastrophe?

[Silver]

I never believed in reincarnation and there are many who do, and just asking questions because of curiosity as to how they believe how it happens. I guess the spirit or soul is what they believe reincarnates. I've always believed in a soul, or spirit, and have had my experiences that strengthen that belief. With the things that've happened in my life, I understand what catastrophe is. Not sure a sudden end to all the madness would be one.

[Greenslade]

If you are created by our creator to be human, will all your incarnations be you as a human? or could you incarnate as an alien life form on a different planet than earth?

Also, can animals be incarnated into humans in their future of being souls?

There was a rumor about a woman who had a guardian angel who was a demon, but was revived, and saved by the light of god, this touches my heart deeply, and reflects my questions, could a lesser being, become a greater or more developed being/soul/spirit?

Non dogmatic opinions, or life experiences please.
I'm going to take this from a different perspective. Are we created as human? If we are Spirit on a human Journey.......

If we were created, then we were created as Spirit first and not as human. As humans we have a very limited view of the Universe so Life on other planets is very much a matter of discussion and beliefs. However, if there are people that remember Life on other planets or incarnations as non-human beings then there has to be something there. Perhaps there are other species 'out there' that are far more Spiritually advanced than we are, perhaps some less advanced and more war-like. Given a linear development then perhaps this human existence is on the bottom of the ladder, and as part of climbing that ladder we become incarnate as beings on another planet that are more Spiritually advanced in order to develop further. However, I don't believe the development of our Spirit is so linear so perhaps some incarnate in a Spiritually advanced race before becoming incarnate as a human. There is merit in both perspectives.

If a Spirit needs the experience of being human in every incarnation then that would happen. If the Spirit needs the experience in incarnating in a wide variety of Life forms then that would happen too. Each to their own.

[moke64916]

Is it possible that there is no reincarnation? That when you die, you are dead and gone? My question is...What is it that is reincarnated?

If birth and death are simply the beginning and final ending of "You", is that a catastrophe?
Is it possible that there is no reincarnation?

Reincarnation is choice. If a soul chooses not to reincarnate, it is the souls choice. The soul may do as it wishes. Life is a continual process. The Cosmic Wheel. Life goes on. Souls choose to reincarnate, and even pick the circumstances of that life. If a soul chooses not to reincarnate, then that's the souls will. God has freewill. Souls are God. They may do as they wish.

[moke64916]

Life is eternal. Physical death is just the beginning. Death is an illusion. It would not be the 'end' of you. You are eternal. Life goes on forever.

[BlueSky]

Is it possible that there is no reincarnation?

Reincarnation is choice. If a soul chooses not to reincarnate, it is the souls choice. The soul may do as it wishes. Life is a continual process. The Cosmic Wheel. Life goes on. Souls choose to reincarnate, and even pick the circumstances of that life. If a soul chooses not to reincarnate, then that's the souls will. God has freewill. Souls are God. They may do as they wish.

You forgot to say "I think" :smile:

[moke64916]

There is no "I think" when I ask the question to my higher self. It's a knowing rather than a thinking. If I were thinking it would come from mind. That's my truth, not a thinking. "I think" would refer to a not knowing. It's a guess. My answers don't come from mind. I have a pen and journal. I ask the question and the words just start flowing. I wrote down word for word what was in my journal.

[BlueSky]

There is no "I think" when I ask the question to my higher self. It's a knowing rather than a thinking. If I were thinking it would come from mind. That's my truth, not a thinking. "I think" would refer to a not knowing. It's a guess. My answers don't come from mind. I have a pen and journal. I ask the question and the words just start flowing. I wrote down word for word what was in my journal.

Moke, have you ever noticed how many people, cultures, religions, enlightened ones......"know"......something different than you do?

Islamic extemist know that they are doing a favor to the ones they blow up in buildings.

KKK members know that white people are decendants of Adam and the rest are from Eve and she is the one who coaxed Adam to sin so kill them all.

JWitnesses know that where the bible says "don't eat blood" that it means let your child die before giving them a blood transfusion.

I could go on forever.....
How could they all "know" and be so opposed in every way.
Don't answer the question, I'm sure you can come up with one. Just think about it someday when your alone....or not.
James

[moke64916]

Those are based on belief. Mine is through experience.

[moke64916]

I never read a spiritual book to find enlightenment. It happened because I suffered so much it was either evolve or die. The outcome was pure love.

[sound]

I never read a spiritual book to find enlightenment. It happened because I suffered so much it was either evolve or die. The outcome was pure love.
Far be it from me to tell you why you experience your spiritual nature moke but for many (according to their own accounts) it was simply because they let their sufferings go ... and the beliefs which surround those sufferings, naturally ...

[moke64916]

Your telling me? lol.

[sound]

Your telling me? lol.

Not at all ... just sharing what has been shared with me ...

[BlueSky]

Those are based on belief. Mine is through experience.

Many people have "experienced" that we are amongst reptilian creatures that have taking over the world disguised as humans and that George Bush is one of them.

And I'm sure Bin Laden would have been able to share his visions with Allah and "experiences" had we had the chance.

And I'm also sure mass murderers can share their "experiences" with God telling them to kill in his name

All thru "experience" Moke..............................

[moke64916]

Every reply I've received from you not arguementative, but similar. I could reply based on last post. But I choose not to. Peace

[BlueSky]

Peace.....

[peteyzen]

If you are created by our creator to be human, will all your incarnations be you as a human? or could you incarnate as an alien life form on a different planet than earth?

Also, can animals be incarnated into humans in their future of being souls?

.

The evolution of the soul is always upward, we start as smaller animal souls and grow in soul groups until we `evolve` with other soul groups to become a human soul, at whcih point with our structure of chakras, we for the first time have the ability to break out of this circle of re birth.

yes we can and do incarnate as aliens who can evolve to a human soul, but not the other way.

[moke64916]

The evolution of the soul is always upward, we start as smaller animal souls and grow in soul groups until we `evolve` with other soul groups to become a human soul, at whcih point with our structure of chakras, we for the first time have the ability to break out of this circle of re birth.

yes we can and do incarnate as aliens who can evolve to a human soul, but not the other way.
Exactly. It's alwAys upward. But remember this. Once we totally Remember Who We Are. We can also choose to forget again to recreate the process all over again.

[peteyzen]

In my belief system, we have a slightly different belief about the `we have free will so we can incarnate when we want to in whatever form we wish` belief that I have heard on here and I would like to mention it as I think its quite important to bear in mind.
In eastern concepts or reincarnation, the soul has to reincarnate because it has unpaid karma to work through, this is not a choice but a compulsion brought about by the law of karma.
I only mention it because if this is true it has a massive bearing on our behaviour in this life.

god bless all

[moke64916]

What is Karma and how does it interact with freewill?

Karma is different than Eastern mythologists refer to. Karma is what goes around comes around. Path goes upwards only. The Universe is meticulous. 'I' can not interfere with freewill. Yet Karma is not a deed or opposite of experience. Karma humans refer to is a myth. All Karma is is the cycle of life. The Cosmic Wheel. Nothing interferes with freewill.

[Sentientno1]

Having spent many years in a devoted bhakti yogi lifestyle and experiencing meditational visions, oobs, and past life recall reincarnation is an important part of understanding why we are what we are.

My present life memories go back to a point at something like 2 years old, and also to another time and place when we were prior to this earth, we arrived here not in spaceships, but as migrating souls to further experience specific new life forms, the older being no longer sustainable on a dying world not far from here

Reincarnation is nothing more then an attempt to balance out energy that is out of kilter with the rest of the universe. The universe does not desire nor does it fear, two of the main ingrediants that give reincarnation it's impetus.

peteyzen mentions the chakras being the freedom way out, this is insightful as the chakras are also the mechanism for reincarnation. Karma is the result of cause and effect, it is forgotten there is also positive karma which is equaly binding as the negative kind. This karma, energy of cause and effect, is retained in the petals of the chakras and will determine the place and time of birth ( life is homogenouse) to best fullfill that karma.
The most evident of karma is the body type, and how well it functions, more subtle is the mind and how it functions.

Karma cannot be avoided, it can however be transcended.

Once one graduates to a human body there will be no going back to other species bodies

If the planets were not aligned around the sun at certain speed, distance and in relationship with each other, life here, in these forms, would not be possible. So peering out of the box, and looking with an expanded awareness it's possible to see the solar system is in itself a mechanism to facilitate the emergence and sustaining of life....to me an awesome marvel.

[theophilus]

In the creation account in Genesis, one thing is said about humans that is not said about anything else God created:Then God said, “Let us make man in our image, after our likeness. And let them have dominion over the fish of the sea and over the birds of the heavens and over the livestock and over all the earth and over every creeping thing that creeps on the earth.” So God created man in his own image, in the image of God he created him; male and female he created them.
Genesis 1:26,27 ESV

Since we were created in God's image, what purpose could there be in becoming anything other than human?


Because Adam sinned and brought death into the human race we no longer bear the image with which we were created, but one of the reasons God sent Jesus into the world to atone for our sins is so that we could be restored to our former position and in fact attain a higher status than the one that was possessed be Adam and Eve. The redemption that Christ provides not only forgives our sins but means that our bodies will abe raised from the dead in a state of perfection.Now may the God of peace himself sanctify you completely, and may your whole spirit and soul and body be kept blameless at the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ.
1 Thessalonians 5:23

Those who put their faith in Christ will always be human but in the resurrection will be perfect humans as God intended for us to be.

[moke64916]

What are your words about last guys post?

'I' have sent many messangers to Earth. Jesus purpose was not to point out sin. It was to help others "Remember Who They Are.". 'I' left the bible open for interpretation. My will is your will. Humans are in a stage of Evolution. There are many other advanced species in billions of galaxies throughout the Universe. Man is in the Kindergarden stage of evolution. Remember this souls only go upwards. The purpose of the soul is to Remember Who You Are. That has been my message throughout human history. 'I' gave an analogy with Adam and Eve. Humans took it literally. But remember, My will is your will. If one of me chooses to believe in that story, then that's My will. 'I' am you. God is you. You are God. Christians choose to give it to Christ and ignore the Christ within. You can all be like Jesus. The messages stay the same.
Remember Who You Are.

[Sentientno1]

if the two accounts of Genesis are looked at closely it will be seen there are discepencies.

i take the whole thing to be symbolic as magnificent as the symbology is, it's less then the reality behinde it.

God had only one thing to create from, what was it?

[moke64916]

God only has one thing to create from. What is it?

You think God has one thing to create from? Hymn. What would that be? In the beginning there was nothing. There was only awareness itself. That was All That Is. The One and nothing else. All That Is wanted to know itself experiencially. In order for God to know itself, there had to be That Which Is Here, and That Which is There. The Is-Not Is. Am-Not Am. Because in the absence of That Is Not, That Which Is is not. This was not enough. There had to be a referance point outside itself. The "Big Bang" as scientists refer to created the Which That is Here, The Which That is There, and That Which is Neither. Then 3 elements were born. Inside your cells there are protons, neutrons, and electrons surrounded by a positively charged nucleus. The One turned into the ten thousand, The millions, The billions.are there 3 elements now? No. God is creative. One thing that which was created from in the Beginning of time. Does that knowledge of yours hold true to the universe now? In the beginning there was the Which That Is Here, the Which That Is There. And the Which That Is Neither. What is the Neither? The unmanifested. The reference points outside itself was created with the Here and There. Now do you think I create with one aspect of myself? Your worlds strives off of oxygen and hydrogen. H2O. Do you think the same elements are the source of life in another world? Earth is one speck of the Cosmos.

[Docha]

What if souls don't actually evolve?

What if reincarnation is just purely for the fun of it? What if we assume the mind and the human race is all that is evolving and the soul just is?

Everyone has the ability to tap into their sixth sense. Everyone can learn to be psychic. Its not just for the privlaged, its instinctual.

Its possible we are playing a never ending game, much like D&D the only goal being what sounds good at the time...

I have grown to believe in reincarnation, I didn't always tjink it so, but I have met far too many souls that I just know to discount it. Many of whom together we remeber events in which never took place this lifetime.

I believe its a mix, a roll of the dice and choice, I know we can all turn water to wine...it seems to me its not evolution so much as remembering.

I'm still forming my own concepts of reincarnation. None of the set rules I have read feel right to me.

[moke64916]

Bingo! It is remembering who you are exactly. But it also plays into evolution as well.

[Docha]

If its about remembering then how does evolution fit into that dynamic?


*Warning I approach the spiritual by way of the logical*

[moke64916]

There is an All Knowing when you remember who you are. Bit by bit you slowly remember who you are. It's an evolution of consciousness. The universe is evolving as well. We are expanding at an ever faster rate. Shifting consciousness is evolving right? Our shift in consciousness or 'remembering' IS evolution.

[moke64916]

Remembering Who You Are IS evolution.

[Docha]

I get it now....evolution =change, I was stuck there for a minute. Lol Thanks.

[Sentientno1]

Moke...

you are the first person who was able to reply with the answer i expected.
Most miss the obviouse, that the only present thing could be the only thing used.
Since there is god and only god to create from then it follows that everything is of god, right? Meaning that what we see as reality is god, what we see as ourselves is god and the seeing is god, and the rsponse of that reality is god.

You asked " Does that knowledge of yours hold true to the universe now? "

Yes it does. Explaning it simplified,Seeing anything in this universe as something other then god causes a fluctuation, that ripple is karma splitting the energy of the manifesting mechanism ( the chakra system which is also of god) into two parts, subjective and objective.
The chakra system is closed only at the bottom, the body, the upper part of it is open and widens to infinity.

This is one reason meditation and mindfullness are time honored practices, to a degree, the deeper you go the less those two energies are split into subjective ( me) and objective (it) and they begin to gather into one which is neither me or it. and that unified perception begins to rise upward thru the chakra system.
When realisation is present no new karma will be gathered since the knowledge of one will cause no more fluctuations in the one energy.

Not all of what is called creation is visible, it's a mistake to think all we can percieve is all there is.

Karma is not punishment or reward, it's a matter of cause and effect.

[Seperate_Reality]

Of God, I think is more correct...If you design and build a boat, is the boat you? No, of course not, but is of your making. God/s create Energy, Matter Space, Time, but these are not God, but of God or God's "creation.

[Sentientno1]

Seperate reality...of god, in the contex it was used, ( nothing other in existance) means literaly god as the basis.

If we may reason it out? If god creates energy, matter, space and time, what did it use to create those things?

[Topology]

IF all there was was God in the beginning.
IF there was a point where there was no matter and then matter. no space and then space.
IF God has the power to create
THEN God had to have created the universe using the material of Himself.


But MY GOD those are a whole bunch of IF's. What I learned through studying logic was that an IF-THEN statement is operating on assumptions. If we assume the antecedent premises then we can reasonably believe the conclusion. But the antecedents still have to be found to be true. This is still assumption until the antecedents are a given fact. I've found that we use the IF-THEN structure as a way of staying honest in the literal sense of speaking while lying through our teeth in the suggestive sense of speaking. "IF the Christian God is real, THEN you're going to regret not taking Jesus as your savior, better to be safe than sorry."

Why can't we just let mysteries be Mysteries?

It is the insecure mind that has to construct a believable origin story to this crazy ride.

[Docha]

Im safe...not sorry!

If we accept the mystery, wouldn't we then just shuffle through life leaving everything as it is?

Its the search for the 'answer' to the universe that gave us the hitchikers guide to the universe..and other such things.

Isn't the search for the truth what the journey is all about?

The If is what brought us here is it not?
Then I'm glad it did! Hehe

[Topology]

If the IF (or What If?) is what brought us here... Oh man, now you've gone and confused me. :)

I think we're driven to explore to see what's around the other side of the mountain. This is a craving for direct experience, direct knowledge. I think we're fully capable of exploration into what is, now, without dipping into fanciful speculation of the past. Mathematical extrapolation, maybe. History is just Mythology in my book, the study of action, stimulus-response, ethics and character.

[moke64916]

Topology you can tap into that direct knowing right now. I have a thread on how to do it. I tapped into my direct knowing throughout this thread.

Here it is: http://www.spiritualforums.com/vb/showthread.php?t=17589&highlight=Moke64916

[sound]

Your telling me? lol.


Can you explain your response here to me moke please? I have come back to this several times since last night and cant settle on what you wanted to convey to me.

[Topology]

Topology you can tap into that direct knowing right now. I have a thread on how to do it. I tapped into my direct knowing throughout this thread.

Here it is: http://www.spiritualforums.com/vb/showthread.php?t=17589&highlight=Moke64916


Thanks Moke for the link. I've developed my own process for tuning into my intuition, but appreciate the effort to help.

[Chalk1990]

People who base logic on all things, think that logic is the key to all knowledge and understanding, thats where they're wrong. Logic was created by Humans who lack faith, if you have faith, you don't need logic, you just accept what ever you believe in, you don't have to understand it, and may never will. Our miniscule minds will never fully grasp everything in the universe, but some people want to, this is why they think logically.

True discovery happens when we no longer have to say IF, because all that is, already is, there is no If's in the universe.

[moke64916]

Can you explain your response here to me moke please? I have come back to this several times since last night and cant settle on what you wanted to convey to me.
really? Sorry. Didnt mean to have you think about it that long. I just mean't like your telling me what I already know. Probably not the best reply. Sorry for the worry.:hug3:

[moke64916]

People who base logic on all things, think that logic is the key to all knowledge and understanding, thats where they're wrong. Logic was created by Humans who lack faith, if you have faith, you don't need logic, you just accept what ever you believe in, you don't have to understand it, and may never will. Our miniscule minds will never fully grasp everything in the universe, but some people want to, this is why they think logically.

True discovery happens when we no longer have to say IF, because all that is, already is, there is no If's in the universe.
Logical thinking I'd nothing but a sane way of talking. It's more like common sense. Direct knowing comes from intelligence, not logic.

[sound]

really? Sorry. Didnt mean to have you think about it that long. I just mean't like your telling me what I already know. Probably not the best reply. Sorry for the worry.:hug3:

Thats ok moke ... it didn't cause worry ... I just couldn't match your response to my post thats all.

[Sentientno1]

IF all there was was God in the beginning.
IF there was a point where there was no matter and then matter. no space and then space.
IF God has the power to create
THEN God had to have created the universe using the material of Himself.


But MY GOD those are a whole bunch of IF's. What I learned through studying logic was that an IF-THEN statement is operating on assumptions. If we assume the antecedent premises then we can reasonably believe the conclusion. But the antecedents still have to be found to be true. This is still assumption until the antecedents are a given fact. I've found that we use the IF-THEN structure as a way of staying honest in the literal sense of speaking while lying through our teeth in the suggestive sense of speaking. "IF the Christian God is real, THEN you're going to regret not taking Jesus as your savior, better to be safe than sorry."

Why can't we just let mysteries be Mysteries?

It is the insecure mind that has to construct a believable origin story to this crazy ride.

Top...

then it must be obviouse i've had no schooling in logic.

IMO, 'if' is a word of possibilities, an invitation to consider.

Example, 'what if there is no self?"

"It is the insecure mind that has to construct a believable origin story to this crazy ride" hmmmm...are the if's questions THAT far off from the big bang theory?

"Why can't we just let mysteries be Mysteries? "

JHC Top, that question could be the top caption to "why did the apple hit me on the head' list. :fish: <---don't look for logic in this i just happen to like it.

[Seperate_Reality]

Sentientno1, God/s used their native spiritual abilities to create the physical universe and creating, playing games, is what God/s, spiritual beings Love doing...Now Life or adding Life to the Living things on the physical world playing field is God"s or spiritual beings. The source of life is God or more exact the Supreme Being. We each as spiritual beings even came off the Main God Body, which is non-physical, and, immortal. We each know all of this but Forgot. True enlightenment is really just remembering what we already know.

[moke64916]

Why don't we let mysteries be mysteries?

Well for starters we are curious beings. Think about it, if we were to let mysteries be mysteries would that also refer to technological advancement? Not knowing if an idea is going to work is a mystery. If we kept things to mysteries then we'd be a third world country. Ponder your question in your head for awhile. Why don't we leave mysteries mysteries? You asked the question, but you already know the answer. All of us know the answers to our questions. If I don't have an answer to something, I go to my higher self. We evolve by not leaving things a mystery. What if it weren't fo Einsteen's theories? Our world would not be what it is today. Science plays a big role for technology. They didn't build a multiple billion dollar particle accelerator machine for nothing.

[moke64916]

Sentientno1, God/s used their native spiritual abilities to create the physical universe and creating, playing games, is what God/s, spiritual beings Love doing...Now Life or adding Life to the Living things on the physical world playing field is God"s or spiritual beings. The source of life is God or more exact the Supreme Being. We each as spiritual beings even came off the Main God Body, which is non-physical, and, immortal. We each know all of this but Forgot. True enlightenment is really just remembering what we already know.
Do you think The Source is superior to us? Because that is how the first illusion was created that led to 9 other illusions.

[Docha]

People who base logic on all things, think that logic is the key to all knowledge and understanding, thats where they're wrong. Logic was created by Humans who lack faith, if you have faith, you don't need logic, you just accept what ever you believe in, you don't have to understand it, and may never will. Our miniscule minds will never fully grasp everything in the universe, but some people want to, this is why they think logically.

True discovery happens when we no longer have to say IF, because all that is, already is, there is no If's in the universe.

I can think of lots of ifs that are not already in existance.

From what I have come to know, logic and faith are both needed. I would hardly classify myself as wishing to know all of the umiverse and yet I have been inclined to logical thought from birth.

Logic is supposed to be, just as faith is supposed to be. Logic is understanding.

[BlueSky]

Why don't we let mysteries be mysteries?

Well for starters we are curious beings. Think about it, if we were to let mysteries be mysteries would that also refer to technological advancement? Not knowing if an idea is going to work is a mystery. If we kept things to mysteries then we'd be a third world country. Ponder your question in your head for awhile. Why don't we leave mysteries mysteries? You asked the question, but you already know the answer. All of us know the answers to our questions. If I don't have an answer to something, I go to my higher self. We evolve by not leaving things a mystery. What if it weren't fo Einsteen's theories? Our world would not be what it is today. Science plays a big role for technology. They didn't build a multiple billion dollar particle accelerator machine for nothing.


Recently I have pondered this very thing. I am a lets let mysteries be mysteries kinda guy. This is not based on ignorance. It is based on 52 years of chasing the mysteries to the ends of the universe and never coming up with more than what Toplogy said, that any answer I could come up with will be based on an assumption.................but I am beginning to ease up on myself as of recent............to trust :smile: even what it is that I believe.:icon_eek: LOL

I am one that is not attached to having to believe things so I am finding within this context or state, I can be free 'to' believe things. Even though they are not based on anything that can be proven.
I find this to be liberating................I'm not sure if the depth of this comes across but it has deep meaning for me so I'd thought I'd share it. :smile:

[moke64916]

There is such a thing as a logical person that is stubborn because of his logical thinking. Intelligence is far greater than understanding. It's a knowing.

[moke64916]

Recently I have pondered this very thing. I am a lets let mysteries be mysteries kinda guy. This is not based on ignorance. It is based on 52 years of chasing the mysteries to the ends of the universe and never coming up with more than what Toplogy said, that any answer I could come up with will be based on an assumption.................but I am beginning to ease up on myself as of recent............to trust :smile: even what it is that I believe.:icon_eek: LOL

I am one that is not attached to having to believe things so I am finding within this context or state, I can be free 'to' believe things. Even though they are not based on anything that can be proven.
I find this to be liberating................I'm not sure if the depth of this comes across but it has deep meaning for me so I'd thought I'd share it. :smile:
Yes always trust your heart. If it weren't for scientists believing in something that wasn't proven to reach the point where there is evidence. The outside out the box thinking keeps our technology up and advancing.

[Seperate_Reality]

moke64916, as far as I know, not a lot is known about source or the Supreme Being, except for we each came off of it and even the most spiritually advanced can get close to source, but cannot re-connect and communicate with, so to speak. What else is known is, spiritual beings (you and me) are a type of God-Clone or copies. i've even read that we might be a type of God-Cells, keeping in mind, this is all "non-physical" and cannot be compared in any way to the physical world reality, mindset. There are many other theories and speculation regarding this, so take your pick until you can realize the truth for yourself.

[BlueSky]

Yes always trust your heart. If it weren't for scientists believing in something that wasn't proven to reach the point where there is evidence. The outside out the box thinking keeps our technology up and advancing.

Yes, its more than that though............it's more like trusting in faith. Trusting in yourself and everything about yourself......I feel that I have a license, so to speak, to trust what I have faith in. To live as if what it is that I have faith in, is real.

[moke64916]

I'm already at my destination. It's beautiful here. So much love.