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LIFE
14-07-2011, 05:08 PM
In my experience, it is a common teaching in kabbalah that human beings, as vessels, must share the light of the "creator" in order to receive fulfillment.

It is said that the vessel's nature is ego (the will to receive) and that this inherent drive must be transmuted through sharing of the "light" (source of fulfillment). This is all in an effort to ultimately receive fulfillment, which is said can only be achieved through the sharing of the light.

In other words, you must sublimate your "will to receive", so that you may receive fulfillment.

Isn't it still one's "will to receive" that wills to receive fulfillment?

If sharing is just a means to an end (receiving personal fulfillment), then how is this sharing not disingenuous? Isn't the sharing/giving of oneself ultimately only being done for one's own sake, to receive fulfillment?

SeekingTheShift
23-07-2011, 01:15 AM
Hello Life,

The sharing comes from the heart and joy one feels when the ‘vessel’ is filled with the Light of the Creator. Holding back, not sharing, is what would be disingenuous.

I can only speak for myself… I am happy to share whatever tidbits of light I am blessed to receive. I ‘receive’ fulfillment by the act of sharing. I share because I wish for others to find their joy, their light.

If a ’light’ shines for another when I share then I am pleased, if it does not, I have still chosen to share and can only hope at some point the sharing may be of use. I am not judging myself as to whether the sharing is successful or not but that I did my best to share the Light.

Love, hugs, hope and blessings.

gentledove
31-07-2011, 12:30 AM
*gasp* that is sooo beautiful!

cheeky_monkey
31-07-2011, 08:48 PM
Hello Life,

The sharing comes from the heart and joy one feels when the ‘vessel’ is filled with the Light of the Creator. Holding back, not sharing, is what would be disingenuous.

I can only speak for myself… I am happy to share whatever tidbits of light I am blessed to receive. I ‘receive’ fulfillment by the act of sharing. I share because I wish for others to find their joy, their light.

If a ’light’ shines for another when I share then I am pleased, if it does not, I have still chosen to share and can only hope at some point the sharing may be of use. I am not judging myself as to whether the sharing is successful or not but that I did my best to share the Light.

Love, hugs, hope and blessings.

Hi SeekingTheShift, I share exactly the same views with you here. I sometimes worry that people think I'm taunting them with my divine experiences but my intent is only to inspire and uplift them giving them hope for their own experiences. Thank you for writing that and putting it so well.

Blessings, big hugs, bestest wishes with love to you all:hug3:

Cheeky

SeekingTheShift
01-08-2011, 12:44 AM
Gentledove, thank you so much. Your unexpected reaction brings me a happy and blushing smile.

Cheek Monkey, Worry not. You know you come from a place of love and sharing. It can be a challenge to find the right words when we are so excited and dearly wish to share the glow of Hope.

I thank you both for your replies.

I was born and raised in Judaism and still appreciate the deeper messages. Life has changed a great deal for me from the days of attending services and being a part of the young people’s groups. I guess one of the things that stuck with me is that it is okay to ask questions about God and to God.

The tidbits that have come from that freedom to explore beyond the black and white words in a printed book have opened much for me.

If I may be so bold and if you are drawn to do so, please check out http://www.seekingtheshift.com/ In particular the section on Cosmic Seeds regarding the Eightfold Quest for Hope.

Love, hugs, hope and blessings.

Tysklar
21-08-2011, 04:34 AM
Hello LIFE & All.
Isn't it still one's "will to receive" that wills to receive fulfillment?
I feel that receiving fulfilment is a desire to be in harmony, not my will, thy will.
'My' will as the 'Ego' was far from fulfilment of the type in question. 'It' wanted to; conquer, win and revel. I guess we still want this although in spiritual means and not alone... Integrating my ego with spirit in equilibrium, acknowledging the Sacredness in both physical and spiritual aspects of my Being, the vessel and the soul, gave me the appropriate instincts for a state of being that has facilitated, Divine Blessings and fulfilment.

If sharing is just a means to an end (receiving personal fulfillment), then how is this sharing not disingenuous?
My own experience on this matter is; I love to share. I enjoy that someone else can feel joy. Two people in a state of bliss, not just one. Coincidentally, I hate to sense that others are unhappy, not least because of my sins. I am empathetic and connected to all things, it hurts me if you are in anguish.
Emotion to me is Gods language, I fall to my knees with the whisper of a verse. Not to say I'm a Willow, my emotions are honed and in tune, so I can understand the meaning conveyed to me. Hightened intensity of emotion and my senses, is something I am working on achieving, comfortabily.
I believe there is also the question of, what is your fulfilment and what will you do with it, or without it???

Isn't the sharing/giving of oneself ultimately only being done for one's own sake, to receive fulfillment?
You make a distinct point.
Kindness comes from the heart and is an act of spirituality, as such it should be rewarded in spirit. Ergo, fostering more kindness. For you to be blessed by the Divine you have proven you are worthy. As such a Being you would naturally spread the love and blessings to all.

Yamah
03-09-2011, 08:18 PM
"It is said that the vessel's nature is ego (the will to receive)"

That is not the case. Judaism teaches that every vessel has both an inclination towards Good and an inclination towards Evil. It just happens to be that in the current state of the world, the majority of vessels' Evil Inclinations predominate. Judaism never ever teaches that one should go CONTRARY to one's nature, only that one should emphasize a different part of one's nature. The inclination for evil can also, in fact, be used for good - if one understands it and how to turn it upon itself.

Regarding your further point, Rav Dessler has a lot to say on the subject of Giving and Taking. Most relevantly he speaks of 'higher' and 'lower' expressions of the two. The Higher expression of Giving is GIVING FOR THE SAKE OF GIVING, while the lower is GIVING FOR THE SAKE OF RECEIVING (compensation, gratitude, or merely a sense of satisfaction). The Higher expression of Taking is TAKING FOR THE SAKE OF GIVING, while the lower is TAKING FOR THE SAKE OF TAKING. This point needs more elaboration.

TAKING FOR THE SAKE OF GIVING is more aptly termed 'receiving' and I'll give you an example from my own experiences.

A great rabbi was visiting my Yeshiva. Afterwards he went downstairs to wait for his driver. Being in his early 90's he did not appear to be standing very stable, so one of my friends brought out a chair for him to sit on. After offering it to him, the rabbi replied "I don't need to sit, but since you brought it I will use it". My friend was left with a wonderful feeling and we were all left with a life lesson.

GIVING is the highest expression of Godliness. ALLOWING ANOTHER TO GIVE is the highest expression of Giving. When one only takes, one is selfish and just amasses stagnation. When one only gives, one is selfish and just amasses debt. When one understands that one must GIVE and RECEIVE, and do both for the sake of OTHERS and not for the sake of the SELF, then one is truly selfless and on the path of Righteousness.

7luminaries
31-10-2011, 08:31 PM
Yamah...welcome back. I have been off the site a few months and am so glad to see you back here.

This is a wonderful response. The last paragraph is one that all need to understand and hopefully that all will come to understand.

This basically mirrors exactly, just exactly what I have been experiencing in my own life. The implications and sublties are many...and deep.

It bears a lot more discussing...because the implications of interconnectedness and healing are very timely, as always.

peace & blessings,
7L

Yamah
03-11-2011, 07:09 PM
Thank you. Of course it's a deep topic... and attempting to present something with such depth in a succinct way is difficult. I'd like to know about your experiences and delvings into this matter.

nightowl
03-11-2011, 07:55 PM
"It is said that the vessel's nature is ego (the will to receive)"

That is not the case. Judaism teaches that every vessel has both an inclination towards Good and an inclination towards Evil. It just happens to be that in the current state of the world, the majority of vessels' Evil Inclinations predominate. Judaism never ever teaches that one should go CONTRARY to one's nature, only that one should emphasize a different part of one's nature. The inclination for evil can also, in fact, be used for good - if one understands it and how to turn it upon itself.

Regarding your further point, Rav Dessler has a lot to say on the subject of Giving and Taking. Most relevantly he speaks of 'higher' and 'lower' expressions of the two. The Higher expression of Giving is GIVING FOR THE SAKE OF GIVING, while the lower is GIVING FOR THE SAKE OF RECEIVING (compensation, gratitude, or merely a sense of satisfaction). The Higher expression of Taking is TAKING FOR THE SAKE OF GIVING, while the lower is TAKING FOR THE SAKE OF TAKING. This point needs more elaboration.

TAKING FOR THE SAKE OF GIVING is more aptly termed 'receiving' and I'll give you an example from my own experiences.

A great rabbi was visiting my Yeshiva. Afterwards he went downstairs to wait for his driver. Being in his early 90's he did not appear to be standing very stable, so one of my friends brought out a chair for him to sit on. After offering it to him, the rabbi replied "I don't need to sit, but since you brought it I will use it". My friend was left with a wonderful feeling and we were all left with a life lesson.

GIVING is the highest expression of Godliness. ALLOWING ANOTHER TO GIVE is the highest expression of Giving. When one only takes, one is selfish and just amasses stagnation. When one only gives, one is selfish and just amasses debt. When one understands that one must GIVE and RECEIVE, and do both for the sake of OTHERS and not for the sake of the SELF, then one is truly selfless and on the path of Righteousness.

Yamah,

It has been a long time since I have been touched so by a post, the words you have shared I lovingly receive. Thank you :hug:

Silvergirl
03-11-2011, 07:58 PM
Hello Life,

The sharing comes from the heart and joy one feels when the ‘vessel’ is filled with the Light of the Creator. Holding back, not sharing, is what would be disingenuous.

I can only speak for myself… I am happy to share whatever tidbits of light I am blessed to receive. I ‘receive’ fulfillment by the act of sharing. I share because I wish for others to find their joy, their light.

If a ’light’ shines for another when I share then I am pleased, if it does not, I have still chosen to share and can only hope at some point the sharing may be of use. I am not judging myself as to whether the sharing is successful or not but that I did my best to share the Light.

Love, hugs, hope and blessings.


This is nice. I'm enjoying the whole thread, ty~*

7luminaries
04-11-2011, 01:32 AM
Thank you. Of course it's a deep topic... and attempting to present something with such depth in a succinct way is difficult. I'd like to know about your experiences and delvings into this matter.

It is deep and I agree it's very difficult to be succinct.

I've done some serious study in this area, mainly regarding healing and esoteric systems of energy and existence, but also some classic text study. Studying Netivot Shalom/Beresh*t by the Slonimer Rebbe, a chasidic text that is heavily and primarily kabbalistically inspired, has been a beautiful, enriching, and deeply moving experience (All politics aside, he died before any of that unpleasantness occurred and I can only say as a man of God, surely he would never have condoned any discrimination in his name). As has studying the classic texts, such as the Zohar and the Sephir Yetzirah, etc., though I've surely just scratched the surface.

I will just say that what comes to mind in what you have written are the levels of human development, the corresponding levels of a nation's development, the patriarchs, and the qualities they embody or represent. It's all there in your discussion of giving and receiving. I will continue at a more reasonable hr :)

peace & blessings,
7L

tone0728
06-11-2011, 03:23 AM
In AA they say, "You can't keep it unless you give it away."
I think through sharing your belief you strengthen your belief.
It solidifies what you believe when you teach it. I had a psychologist put it to me this way "I teach what I learn, and I learn what I teach."
The idea behind that is everytime you teach another person what you've learned, you are also repeating the lesson to yourself. I think that's what it means by sharing the light to receive fulfillment.

Timbrel
07-11-2011, 02:19 AM
I am a student of Kabbalah for a few years now, and over and over I wonder something similar to what you are asking. I think the trick is to be able to see the motivation of our giving and the balance in our giving from a higher perspective. Whenever one of my teachers talks about "receiving for the self alone" I wonder if I really comprehend that phrase because I honestly FEEL like I want very much to give for the sake of another. I have felt that way for a long time. But, in retrospect, I am beginning to see selfish motivations that were not apparent to me in the past. As a result, I am becoming more balanced in the giving process, something that needed to happen. I hope this is making sense.

Yamah
13-11-2011, 05:55 PM
It makes perfect sense, Timbrel. To quote Verbal from The Usual Suspects, "The greatest trick the devil ever pulled was convincing the world he did not exist." The Yetzer Hara exists in all of us and if you don't see it, that doesn't mean it isn't there... it just means it's hiding.

One of my favorite Ba'al Shem Tov stories:
A couple came to the Ba'al Shem Tov, saying they have been trying to conceive for years and years but they could not get pregnant. They asked the Ba'al Shem Tov for a blessing to help them conceive. The Ba'al Shem Tov naturally obliged. That night, an angel came to the Ba'al Shem Tov in a dream.

The angel said "How could you give that couple a blessing to conceive? God had decreed, through His Wisdom, that the couple should not have a child but now, since you gave them a blessing, God will have to overturn His decree. As punishment for not using your foresight you are now no longer allowed in Heaven after you pass away."

The Ba'al Shem Tov awoke in the morning with a stricken look on his face. Then, slowly, his face started to brighten up until, eventually, a large smile grew across it. He leapt out of bed and gave a shout of joy, then ran outside laughing and dancing. The angel of God came down to him again.

"Um... you did understand what I told you right?" the angel asked, "You're banished from heaven. Forever".

The Ba'al Shem Tov answered "Yes, and thank you! This is the most wonderful gift ever!"

"How is it wonderful?" the angel asked, puzzled.

"Because", he answered, "for my whole life I served God but I always wondered if maybe I was just doing it for the sake of a reward. Now I know that I will have no reward but I STILL want to serve God! Finally it is clear to me that my motivations are pure."

The angel shook his head with amazement. "Ok, Ba'al Shem Tov, you're back in."

slave of Allaah
14-11-2011, 10:06 AM
It makes perfect sense, Timbrel. To quote Verbal from The Usual Suspects, "The greatest trick the devil ever pulled was convincing the world he did not exist." The Yetzer Hara exists in all of us and if you don't see it, that doesn't mean it isn't there... it just means it's hiding.

One of my favorite Ba'al Shem Tov stories:
A couple came to the Ba'al Shem Tov, saying they have been trying to conceive for years and years but they could not get pregnant. They asked the Ba'al Shem Tov for a blessing to help them conceive. The Ba'al Shem Tov naturally obliged. That night, an angel came to the Ba'al Shem Tov in a dream.

The angel said "How could you give that couple a blessing to conceive? God had decreed, through His Wisdom, that the couple should not have a child but now, since you gave them a blessing, God will have to overturn His decree. As punishment for not using your foresight you are now no longer allowed in Heaven after you pass away."

The Ba'al Shem Tov awoke in the morning with a stricken look on his face. Then, slowly, his face started to brighten up until, eventually, a large smile grew across it. He leapt out of bed and gave a shout of joy, then ran outside laughing and dancing. The angel of God came down to him again.

"Um... you did understand what I told you right?" the angel asked, "You're banished from heaven. Forever".

The Ba'al Shem Tov answered "Yes, and thank you! This is the most wonderful gift ever!"

"How is it wonderful?" the angel asked, puzzled.

"Because", he answered, "for my whole life I served God but I always wondered if maybe I was just doing it for the sake of a reward. Now I know that I will have no reward but I STILL want to serve God! Finally it is clear to me that my motivations are pure."

The angel shook his head with amazement. "Ok, Ba'al Shem Tov, you're back in."
I very much support this noble idea (regardless of the truthfulness of the story).

One should be satisfied with Hell and enjoy serving God for He is God.

Alllaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa ahhhhhhhh

That is the real Paradise for me.

Thank you Yamah.

7luminaries
17-11-2011, 06:31 PM
It makes perfect sense, Timbrel. To quote Verbal from The Usual Suspects, "The greatest trick the devil ever pulled was convincing the world he did not exist." The Yetzer Hara exists in all of us and if you don't see it, that doesn't mean it isn't there... it just means it's hiding.

One of my favorite Ba'al Shem Tov stories:
A couple came to the Ba'al Shem Tov, saying they have been trying to conceive for years and years but they could not get pregnant. They asked the Ba'al Shem Tov for a blessing to help them conceive. The Ba'al Shem Tov naturally obliged. That night, an angel came to the Ba'al Shem Tov in a dream.

The angel said "How could you give that couple a blessing to conceive? God had decreed, through His Wisdom, that the couple should not have a child but now, since you gave them a blessing, God will have to overturn His decree. As punishment for not using your foresight you are now no longer allowed in Heaven after you pass away."

The Ba'al Shem Tov awoke in the morning with a stricken look on his face. Then, slowly, his face started to brighten up until, eventually, a large smile grew across it. He leapt out of bed and gave a shout of joy, then ran outside laughing and dancing. The angel of God came down to him again.

"Um... you did understand what I told you right?" the angel asked, "You're banished from heaven. Forever".

The Ba'al Shem Tov answered "Yes, and thank you! This is the most wonderful gift ever!"

"How is it wonderful?" the angel asked, puzzled.

"Because", he answered, "for my whole life I served God but I always wondered if maybe I was just doing it for the sake of a reward. Now I know that I will have no reward but I STILL want to serve God! Finally it is clear to me that my motivations are pure."

The angel shook his head with amazement. "Ok, Ba'al Shem Tov, you're back in."

I really like this. LOL...esp the part abt God having to overturn his decree...and the lumps the Besht had to take as a result, in order to bring him to a higher level...and LOLs that the angel didn't foresee it, but rolled with it nonetheless.

So don't wonder...just DO. :wink: Then no place is hell and all places are heaven.

Thanks for sharing :smile:

sbjazzman
21-03-2012, 04:19 AM
Receiving is about allowing - making oneself a clear channel for the will of the divine to fill one's cup. We spend way too much time resisting what is a natural organic process by inhibiting with feelings and thought of unworthiness.