To be or not to be in the present

[not human]

Hi all I would like to raise this as it has been on my mind a bit & it is to do with being in the present moment. People like Erkhart Tolle have fashionlized the practice & it's not for me to denegrate the pursuit of being in the moment but I did want to explore the validity of it. It seems to me that even when you are caught up in the past or the future you are doing so in the present & the continual practice of restablishing yourself in present time outside of meditation after you find your mind has wandered seems regimented & doesn't resonate for me. I wonder more if residing in the present is more a byproduct of enlightenment rather than a worthy pursuit to reach enlightenment. I mean I know it's a good little money spinner in the spiritual marketplace but how valid is it in terms of a spiritual practice?

[ROM]

We can't change the past, we can't predict the future; all we can do is surrender to the moment of now. Now is the past and the future. Now is the moment of experiencing. Now is the time in which we create and develop, learn and mature, rise and fall. It's all happening now.

[NightSpirit]

Personally i dont believe there is such a thing as enlightenment. It's like the dog chasing his tail.

the continual practice of restablishing yourself in present time ...I like this. It sums it up for me. If one is continually chasing the dogs tail then one is not experiencing the full potential of each moment.

[not human]

but enlightenment is marketed as the carrot of spiritual pursuit & I take your point one cancels out the other but I'd like to find out just how many people out there reside in the present moment for a goodly amount of the time

[NightSpirit]

okay..although i'm not sure how this helps you any?

As a human being, if i were to live totally in the moment, I would relinguish all my past history and all that keeps me chugging for future goals. If I wanted to be some guru sitting on a cushion omming long into the present, then I would be that. I am here to experience what constitutes life and all that goes with it. That includes my ability to draw upon a past so i can recognise my children, family and grandkids...and a future in store to give me incentive to keep living.

I'm not sure if this answers your question?

[Topology]

Hi all I would like to raise this as it has been on my mind a bit & it is to do with being in the present moment. People like Erkhart Tolle have fashionlized the practice & it's not for me to denegrate the pursuit of being in the moment but I did want to explore the validity of it. It seems to me that even when you are caught up in the past or the future you are doing so in the present & the continual practice of restablishing yourself in present time outside of meditation after you find your mind has wandered seems regimented & doesn't resonate for me. I wonder more if residing in the present is more a byproduct of enlightenment rather than a worthy pursuit to reach enlightenment. I mean I know it's a good little money spinner in the spiritual marketplace but how valid is it in terms of a spiritual practice?

What's the goal of your spiritual practice?

If you're doing your math homework and thinking about the problem, you're still being present. The issue comes in when you're obsessively thinking about an event in the past, it takes you away from being present. Of course in order to redress the imbalance you have to work through the obsession in the present.

There is a real quality of Being and Mindfulness which being Present is suppose to facilitate. Being caught up in the thought of the past takes away from our time spent in Mindfulness. Ultimately I see two concerns: (1) Is the practical issue, being distracted in obsessive thought prevents us from engaging the current experience fully. (2) Is that most of our perceptions and judgments of the world are inaccurate and it would best serve us and others if we could forget them and approach the world as if we were seeing it new for the first time.

Unhooking ourselves from our unconscious trains of thoughts and returning to being mindfully aware of our current experience is a valuable practice. You are re-training your neural pathways to become more present and attentive. On the other hand, if you're doing this and at the same time pumping yourself with the self image of "I'm being Holy" then you're not really being present but participating in an artificial mental projection.

[not human]

However I am questioning the validity of putting a mechanical process in place in the order to pursue a higher state I understand that the mind requires that we take steps to create control in our practice but I try not to get sucked into believing that it knows what it's doing I'm simply asking a question I don't hold a belief about enlightenment I simply try & stay open to anything that comes along thanks for your input

[NightSpirit]

Can you simplify your question please?

[not human]

Can you simplify your question please?
sure Nightspirit is the practice of conciously returning to the present moment achievable on a daily basis & does the practise lead to higher states of conciousness in your experience thanks

[mattie]

It is OK to market one’s work such as Tolle does. Virtually all teachers are passing along what has worked for them. That they are selling books doesn’t necessarily invalidate the material. Many are being called to provide these type of gateways in mass market venues. Most of the material at the local bookstore in the New Age or metaphysical section is gateway material. This is providing a valuable service to the many who are awakening. It’s a good starting point. It isn’t meant to be all that we learn, but just to be useful tips as wayshowers.

Being in the NOW is one of the many energetic things we learn to master in our journey. Moving past fear & limitations & discharging energetic refuse that arises as we expand our consciousness is another. Many progressive spiritual writers have discussed the value of being in the NOW.

Enlightenment is one of the useful terms that describes stages in our journey. Awakening is when we begin searching for more information & experiences. Enlightenment is, generally, when we begin to connect w/ our 5D energies, moving through fear. About 2/3 of the way through 4D. Ascension is thought to be the end goal of 5D awareness, but ascension actually BEGINS in 5D. Ascension is completed for this stage of our journey when we reunite w/ the energies we call God, merging w/ the Universe at 12D (1-12D). When we reunite w/ 12D we have the option of deconstructing our energies & doing it all over again. More about this expansive growth process at multidimensions.com.

Enlightenment is just one step in our spiritual growth. From the point that most are right now, particularly those who are just awakening, enlightenment is a very major goal, albeit not the final one. We realize that the more we learn, the more we have to learn. This isn’t to be discouraging about the process, but to acknowledge that it is a continual process of expansion, learning, & experiencing. We move from the awakening process of exploring to the I AM of BEing to KNOWing, then to the various stages of being creators. The creator process moves through its stages w/ a Hmmm ... ‘I COULD’ shifting to a ‘I WILL.’

The Aquarian era energies are about moving from a single religious figure telling us what spirituality is to recognizing that many teachers bring their areas of expertise to the whole spiritual experience. We move into the function of being both the student & teacher as we develop our discernment to evaluate information. One teacher may have allot of great information or just a few nuggets that are valid. Even w/ the best teachers there may be areas of their information that we’re not completely comfortable w/. This is OK & doesn’t invalidate the other information they have. There are many teachers as what works for one person isn’t necessarily what works for another one.

[radareyes]

Hi all I would like to raise this as it has been on my mind a bit & it is to do with being in the present moment. People like Erkhart Tolle have fashionlized the practice & it's not for me to denegrate the pursuit of being in the moment but I did want to explore the validity of it. It seems to me that even when you are caught up in the past or the future you are doing so in the present & the continual practice of restablishing yourself in present time outside of meditation after you find your mind has wandered seems regimented & doesn't resonate for me. I wonder more if residing in the present is more a byproduct of enlightenment rather than a worthy pursuit to reach enlightenment. I mean I know it's a good little money spinner in the spiritual marketplace but how valid is it in terms of a spiritual practice?
In my experience present moment awareness is a natural byproduct of alignment with the natural state of our beings, a state which is only disrupted when we're identified with the ego and conceptual mind. That being said, spiritual development is paradoxical in that it is a kind of process that unfolds over time that takes place within the context of eternity -- we are utilizing being in order to facilitate becoming. As a result, one can often experience the present moment in layers and gradations. One may be preoccupied with the past or future on some level of one's being, but spiritual development remains unimpeded as long as this preoccupation takes place within the context of present moment awareness (detached observation). It is the willingness to allow these preoccupations to naturally arise (being/eternity) that ultimately enables us to go beyond them (becoming/time).

Your concern that one could use an approach to spiritual growth like present moment awareness either as a kind of contrivance that lacks spontaneity or for the sake of vanity or image ("I'm a very spiritual person now that I always strive to remain in the present moment", etc.) is a valid one. If a spiritual aspirant doesn't have a sincere desire to go beyond the suffering inherent in an ego-based existence then any spiritual approach, no matter how seemingly profound or authentic, can be "hijacked" by the ego as a means of perpetuating itself. The only remedy to this condition is further reflection on (and possibly experience of) the futility inherent in the seeking of fulfillment from the standpoint of the ego.

[Gem]

It's more to do with presence than the present.

[7luminaries]

We can't change the past, we can't predict the future; all we can do is surrender to the moment of now. Now is the past and the future. Now is the moment of experiencing. Now is the time in which we create and develop, learn and mature, rise and fall. It's all happening now.


well said.

p & b
7L

[Gracey]

It's more to do with presence than the present.

i agree...........

[angel6m2000]

sure Nightspirit is the practice of conciously returning to the present moment achievable on a daily basis & does the practise lead to higher states of conciousness in your experience thanks

I believe that if you practice being aware in the present moment and being mindful of the things you do it will open yourself up and lead you to a greater experience of life. This being aware will take time to achieve as most people's minds are in such a state where they cannot do this for long, but with time I believe it will become easier. I try to do this and have to remind myself to come back to the present moment. My mind drifts off alot and it can be difficult. But I feel that with time I can achieve the practice of mindfulness in my day to day life and have the strong feeling that it will help me in states of consciousness and unconsciousness.

In short my answer is yes, I believe it is achievable through practice and discipline and it will eventually lead to a greater experience of life.

Good question by the way.

[moke64916]

Hi all I would like to raise this as it has been on my mind a bit & it is to do with being in the present moment. People like Erkhart Tolle have fashionlized the practice & it's not for me to denegrate the pursuit of being in the moment but I did want to explore the validity of it. It seems to me that even when you are caught up in the past or the future you are doing so in the present & the continual practice of restablishing yourself in present time outside of meditation after you find your mind has wandered seems regimented & doesn't resonate for me. I wonder more if residing in the present is more a byproduct of enlightenment rather than a worthy pursuit to reach enlightenment. I mean I know it's a good little money spinner in the spiritual marketplace but how valid is it in terms of a spiritual practice?
There is more to it than being Present in the moment to enlightenment. Eckhart Tolle also says to "feel" your inner body.
To always keep some of your attention inside your body. Being present presents the opportunity for being to shed to light.
But inner body awareness while being present is key in my opinion. Observing thoughts as well. Not being "Attached" to your thoughts.
To realize there is a wealth of intelligence beyond normal "Thought."

[Miss Hepburn]

I'm just now joining in - I hope this is on topic.
I personally don't think it makes any difference if I am in the Now or thinking about the past or the future.

That being said - "as long as I am happy" --if a memory from the past makes me smile, great - if a thought about a future plan makes me smile, great.

Now, that being said, often thoughts of the past are not pleasant and entertaining them can take a downturn - so I simply don't entertain them often.

Thinking about the future - well, it may give me a smile - but it may never happen - so I don't bother much.
(Though, I see over decades my friends seem to place there happiness in anticipation of either the next meal or next vacation - often to watch them be disappointed!! It's very wild to witness over and over! Ha!)

So, by desiring to be as happy as I can be and to feel as much love and peace and joy --- being in the Now is the most pleasant place for me.

Dangling from the cliff by a thin root --- the monk says, "Ah, the strawberry."

That to me is where I am often - it is a blessing (to others kinda weird) - for me, it is progress, only because I choose happiness and laughter and know, now, I'm in charge of those...

:smile: Miss Hepburn

[not human]

Just to clarify my purpose for asking this question I am not coming from an arrogamce or a wish to invalidate teachings as I feel all is valid under the sun just that lately I tried to explore an attitude of not using any form of control & allowing everything to be or at least I have been attempting this so from taking this position it poses a question regarding the need of putting anything in place at all

[Gem]

Just to clarify my purpose for asking this question I am not coming from an arrogamce or a wish to invalidate teachings as I feel all is valid under the sun just that lately I tried to explore an attitude of not using any form of control & allowing everything to be or at least I have been attempting this so from taking this position it poses a question regarding the need of putting anything in place at all

I don't understand. What sort of thing would anyone put in place?

[not human]

OK ...so now how do I make this thread go away ....: )()() .........

[NightSpirit]

sure Nightspirit is the practice of conciously returning to the present moment achievable on a daily basis & does the practise lead to higher states of conciousness in your experience thanks

Thanks for clarifying nh. Unfortunately i can't speak from personal experience. I can bring myself back into the moment, but I'm not well practised at it. My husband though, used to do it quite a bit and I noticed in these moments, he seemed to be able to articulate from some deeper awareness. So to answer the 2nd part of your question, I'd be willing to say the more practice, the more disciplined one becomes....and yes, it does seem to alter the conscious experience.

Cheers :smile:

[sound]

'Capturing the moment' is inherent to our conscious experience in one sense. Awareness of ourselves living each moment is the double jewel in the crown lol ...

[Smiler]

Hello :) Just a Quick ?

Is Each Individual person responding to each other in this thread coming from a present mind set?

I just had that thought ..dah da .... I am in the present :)

[moke64916]

I'm just now joining in - I hope this is on topic.
I personally don't think it makes any difference if I am in the Now or thinking about the past or the future.

That being said - "as long as I am happy" --if a memory from the past makes me smile, great - if a thought about a future plan makes me smile, great.

Now, that being said, often thoughts of the past are not pleasant and entertaining them can take a downturn - so I simply don't entertain them often.

Thinking about the future - well, it may give me a smile - but it may never happen - so I don't bother much.
(Though, I see over decades my friends seem to place there happiness in anticipation of either the next meal or next vacation - often to watch them be disappointed!! It's very wild to witness over and over! Ha!)

So, by desiring to be as happy as I can be and to feel as much love and peace and joy --- being in the Now is the most pleasant place for me.

Dangling from the cliff by a thin root --- the monk says, "Ah, the strawberry."

That to me is where I am often - it is a blessing (to others kinda weird) - for me, it is progress, only because I choose happiness and laughter and know, now, I'm in charge of those...

:smile: Miss Hepburn

That is a great attitude that gives past and future no power. The fact that you are aware when you are thinking of past and future is what matters in my opinion. It is unconscious thinking that unnecessary.

[moke64916]

'Capturing the moment' is inherent to our conscious experience in one sense. Awareness of ourselves living each moment is the double jewel in the crown lol ...
Well said.:smile:

[Xan]

not human: I wonder more if residing in the present is more a byproduct of enlightenment rather than a worthy pursuit to reach enlightenment.

I haven't read the whole thread, but my answer to this is.... Both.

Learning to keep one's attention in the present moment is essential for going beyond the mind and its continual past-future focus and conditioned self-identity.

If you look at it more closely you'll see life is only happening and Reality only exists in this moment... out of time.

Enlightenment, which is experiencing and recognizing our true nature, can only occur Now... and Now... and Now........


Xan

[not human]

Thanks all I think mainly where I was coming from with the creatiin of this thread is that from my current vantage point I have found it frustrating & next to impossible to reside in the now. The creation of the thread was a base reaction to this & probably not well formulated. Its like sometimes you walk down the street in love with life & then you stub your toe & for that moment your life is all about the pain in yout toe. Thank you all

[not human]

Just realized that the toe story is a really bad analogy as someone is bound to point out that being with the toe pain in the present moment is all there is, so from this point I will be making whining & gurgling noises under my doona peace

[zipzip]

Thanks all I think mainly where I was coming from with the creatiin of this thread is that from my current vantage point I have found it frustrating & next to impossible to reside in the now. The creation of the thread was a base reaction to this & probably not well formulated. Its like sometimes you walk down the street in love with life & then you stub your toe & for that moment your life is all about the pain in yout toe. Thank you all


Hey, Not Human,

I hear you. As I am a human (lol) I know I am always thinking of the past, the future. That is just how I am.

However, sometimes, when I catch myself, I try and connect to this NOW moment. That is when I am totally present, when I can really just enjoy it. I'm trying more and more to be like that because truthfully, it feels good.

I hope you got whatever answers you needed. No problems asking your questions .

zipzip

[Gem]

Just realized that the toe story is a really bad analogy as someone is bound to point out that being with the toe pain in the present moment is all there is, so from this point I will be making whining & gurgling noises under my doona peace

No. Toe story was brilliant.

[Xan]

... from my current vantage point I have found it frustrating & next to impossible to reside in the now.
not human... I found Eckhart Tolle's little book "Practicing the Power of Now" very helpful with its suggestions for how to develop present awareness.

And... my method is conscious breathing. Since we can only breathe now, paying attention in our breathing down in the lower belly while doing whatever else we do keeps us present and less involved with the head mind.


Xan

[not human]

Xan, Gem & zip zip thank you for the kind words & guidance however I've now made a present time decision to stay under this doona.......It's really cosy & warm here & having cut down 90% of external stimuli I'm finding it much easier to achieve being in the moment....now if I can just work out how to change the sheets with me in them........

[Gem]

Xan, Gem & zip zip thank you for the kind words & guidance however I've now made a present time decision to stay under this doona.......It's really cosy & warm here & having cut down 90% of external stimuli I'm finding it much easier to achieve being in the moment....now if I can just work out how to change the sheets with me in them........

I just read the toe story and thought, there is the tale of life.

I also have a saying which goes "reality is what you stub your toe on in a rush to the dunny door."

[not human]

I also have a saying which goes "reality is what you stub your toe on in a rush to the dunny door."[/QUOTE]

Gem I thought John Lennon said that :)