Being able to humble myself.

[Honza]

This ability is essential for me. I have this need to be able to humble myself. It goes way back in my history in this life and probably others before it. I need to be able to humble myself so that I can feel good. Also so that I can feel meek and small enough to fit in.

Generally speaking I feel rather large and awkward. A bit out on a limb. I feel that if I can humble myself I will fit in more and be happier. In my youth I flunked my exams because I spent time taking drugs and rebelling against society and I believe I was trying to humble myself during my turbulent teenage years.

I think many people have this need. The need to make themselves feel smaller and humble. It is a terrible thing to feel arrogant. To feel bigger than everyone else. To feel cumbersome and awkward.

I feel that because life is so difficult and dangerous - the ability for us to humble ourselves becomes a survival instinct. We recoil from the threat and retreat into ourselves. If under threat one instinct is to make yourself a smaller target. To withdraw, so that the danger misses you.

I think the ability for us to humble ourselves might be a forgotten virtue which we all miss.

[psychoslice]

If you have a NEED to be humbled, then you can never be humble, a true humble person is just humble, not from wanting to be or wanting not to be, there is nothing to be gained from being humbled.

[Blaze]

What psychoslice said!

[Silver]

Sorry, I'm not buying that, slice. I think a person who seeks to be humble is by definition already there. Another person who sees no 'need' to do so is the most arrogant blankety blank around. (Imho lol)

[ROM]

I would have to agree with Silvergirl, sorry slice. Anyone can be humble if they so wish. And there's everything to be gained from being humble, by not being arrogant and pretentious.

[Lovely]

I agree with silvergirl. The more humble you are the easier it is to
let go of ego and learn new and accept new things.

[Blaze]

Sorry, I'm not buying that, slice. I think a person who seeks to be humble is by definition already there. Another person who sees no 'need' to do so is the most arrogant blankety blank around. (Imho lol)
You took it the wrong way I think. Humbleness is not something you can buy or someone can give it to you. When you ask for humbleness you are doing it the wrong way. It's just down to the person and how s/he manage their life in different situtaion. Arrogance/humblity still has a relative meaning base on different aspects.

[Shantyaikya]

I feel that because life is so difficult and dangerous - the ability for us to humble ourselves becomes a survival instinct. We recoil from the threat and retreat into ourselves. If under threat one instinct is to make yourself a smaller target. To withdraw, so that the danger misses you
Strength is the virtue to be sitting at the base of the exploding volcano and not be affected. Just from thinking about this thread I am seeing that if you wish to be humble you must also practice the other virtues. Humility (which is the word i believe you all are searching for) is the ability to accept that you are wrong and accepting your insignificance.

I love the wikipedia description:
Humility (adjectival form (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Adjectival_form): humble) is the quality of being modest, respectful and even obsequiously submissive. It is the antithesis of being arrogant, contemptuous, rude or even self-aggrandizing. Humility, in various interpretations, is widely seen as a virtue (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Virtue) in many religious and philosophical traditions, being connected with notions of transcendent (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Transcendence_%28philosophy%29) unity with the universe or the divine, and of egolessness (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Egolessness).

[arive nan]

Although humble is called an adjective of degrade, it has positive connotations that do not really fit the situation of taking drugs and failing exams and etc. - such as meekness, modesty, deferring to other people as someone of lower rank, the opposite of arrogant. I don't think self-destructive behavior fits those aspects of the term.

And I don't think that rebellion is the aim in most cases with teenagers disobeying rules by doing harm to their health and academic career. I do not believe that they disobey for the sake of disobeying. They are expressing their emotions and it just so happens that the only ways they can think of to express/cope with their painful emotions is by doing things that happen to be against the rules... The actions happen to be against the rules, but they can make the emotional pain temporarily stop. Doing things like drugs and ignoring schoolwork are a temporary escape from painful reality that teenagers (and some adults too) don't yet know how to deal with in a healthier way... and they haven't yet absorbed the lesson that these temporary escapes have a price that is not worth it in the long run.

I don't think it's about humbling oneself in other words. Self-degrading would be more accurate. And I don't think it has anything to do with feeling arrogance that needs to be tempered. It's the opposite. It is in large part due to low self-esteem. People don't do damage to themselves and their life out of liking themselves too much... they do it out of not liking themselves enough or caring about themselves enough to place more importance on their health and their academic career.

I'm not saying this to be harsh towards anyone. I've just been through a phase like that. I did things that were against the rules as a teenager, but the fact that it was against the rules had nothing to do with why I was doing it. I was in pain, because I hated myself, because other people hated me and looked down on me and I saw myself as something lowly and undeserving of anything good. So I did harm to myself. Literally. It made the emotional pain stop for a moment, and harm was what I felt I deserved for being as horrible as I believed I was. Most of my peers were also in pain and harming themselves... none of them had genuine arrogance, as in any genuine belief within their true self that they are better than others. There were some pathological narcissists, and they were some of the most self-destructive of them all, but they have what I call pseudo-arrogance (they sub-consciously despise themselves more than most people so they try to hide this from their conscious self by acting arrogant).

People can have a better ability to overcome harmful habits if they have an improvement in their self-esteem. But that's because they began these habits in large part due a lack of self-esteem, not because they were trying to humble themselves to temper arrogance. They feel small to begin with.

Arrogance is not a good thing either. But the way humility can combat arrogance is if the person allows themselves to take a good look at reality and occasionally realise "I was wrong about that" when they are wrong about something. When people really feel like they are better than others, it can have terrible consequences, but it generally does not produce a feeling of needing to make oneself smaller. People enjoy the feeling of thinking and believing they are better. They don't want it to stop. But sometimes that belief is challenged, and they can either face the facts that contradict their belief and become more humble or ignore those facts. Many prefer to just ignore the facts so they can keep feeling superior. The ones who face the facts aren't doing it in order to feel better. I think they're just not as able to ignore facts (which is a good thing) or they place more importance on knowing the truth so they are willing to sacrifice the satisfying feeling of superiority in favor of truth.

[psychoslice]

Sorry, I'm not buying that, slice. I think a person who seeks to be humble is by definition already there. Another person who sees no 'need' to do so is the most arrogant blankety blank around. (Imho lol)
I think those who seek to be humble are after a reward, its the ego that wants to be humble, those who recognize their true Being and also see it in everyone else, are truly humbled, they realize that we are all much more than our mind body organism, they realize that we are all that there IS, there, now that's humble without the need to even label it humble.

[psychoslice]

You took it the wrong way I think. Humbleness is not something you can buy or someone can give it to you. When you ask for humbleness you are doing it the wrong way. It's just down to the person and how s/he manage their life in different situtaion. Arrogance/humblity still has a relative meaning base on different aspects.
Thank you Blaze, you truly understand, I suppose I should explain myself a little better, but I'm just too lazy lol.

[Silver]

I think those who seek to be humble are after a reward, its the ego that wants to be humble, those who recognize their true Being and also see it in everyone else, are truly humbled, they realize that we are all much more than our mind body organism, they realize that we are all that there IS, there, now that's humble without the need to even label it humble.

There are so many ways of looking at the same thing, like the blind men and the elephant, lol. I do understand 'how' you're looking at it, but initially was sorta puzzled. I still see it 'my' way, or understand humility' from my perspective better, but both ways are valid. For years, I have no idea why, but whenever I would pray, I would ask for the lord to keep me humble.

[psychoslice]

There are so many ways of looking at the same thing, like the blind men and the elephant, lol. I do understand 'how' you're looking at it, but initially was sorta puzzled. I still see it 'my' way, or understand humility' from my perspective better, but both ways are valid. For years, I have no idea why, but whenever I would pray, I would ask for the lord to keep me humble.
Yes we both just have our own way of looking at the same thing, i think i'm usually with the faeries, more out of body sort of, so that's how i reply, but yes we need to keep the balance like you are with your reply. I hope you are Ok, your up late ?.

[Silver]

Yes we both just have our own way of looking at the same thing, i think i'm usually with the faeries, more out of body sort of, so that's how i reply, but yes we need to keep the balance like you are with your reply. I hope you are Ok, your up late ?.

Yah, tried to sleep but even tho I took melatonin, it didn't work, obviously, I've been bracing myself for David's death and so 'logically' was prepared, but it does make my stomach (and heart and soul) churn.

[Honza]

What I'm trying to say is that I don't feel humble yet. I have never felt humble - except in my childhood. When I hit puberty my feeling of humility vanished and the self-hatred crept in. It was then that I subconsciously started looking for ways to humble myself. By taking drugs and flunking school I was trying to break the grip of the ego upon me. I was fighting it. Without knowing how or why. Drugs give the person who takes them a big knock on the head....they soften the harshness of life. But only temporarily.

The physical plane is not a very humble place to be either. The earth is wretched. With much wrong going on. I fear it at times and want to be small enough to pass through it unscathed.

I don't think it is wrong to TRY and humble yourself. What could be wrong with it? It is not for a reward, but rather an aim for peace. I think the more people attempt to be humble then the more likely they are going to succeed.

[psychoslice]

If we truly just loved each other, then humbleness would just naturally follow, it would be there, but not realized that it is there, unless someone says so, then we would simply say, Oh, that's what its called.

[3dnow]

Hi Honza,

What you say is pure self judgement beating yourself. I also agree with Slice you cannot humble yourself like that it is only your ego who needs to be humble because you think it is a good quality!!!

You don't care about being humble, self forgive your arrogance, then you magically become humble.

If you judge yourself you will judge others too, so this has nothing to do with humility.

3dnow

[moke64916]

....................

[Silver]

Umm, how humble is it to judge somebody as to whether they are humble (in YOUR estimation or not) smacks of arrogance Imho. And I don't see how being 'present in the moment has anything at all to do w/humility. One can be as arrogant as ever and still be in the moment/inthe now.

[3dnow]

Umm, how humble is it to judge somebody as to whether they are humble (in YOUR estimation or not) smacks of arrogance Imho. And I don't see how being 'present in the moment has anything at all to do w/humility. One can be as arrogant as ever and still be in the moment/inthe now.

Hi Silvergirl, if you think about arrogance you will be arrogant. So it is better to forget about it.

3dnow

[moke64916]

Umm, how humble is it to judge somebody as to whether they are humble (in YOUR estimation or not) smacks of arrogance Imho. And I don't see how being 'present in the moment has anything at all to do w/humility. One can be as arrogant as ever and still be in the moment/inthe now.
Your open to your belief. I am not arrigant. You might have been just judging me right there. All in all this really does not matter. I could of worded it better, I give it to you on that. But if you were in my body while I was writing it you would not of seen arigance. However you spell it. I mean't to write it as my own interpretation. I was not judging either. Not in my mind. I was simply sharing my beliefs. And for you to jump at me with a negative reply doesn't help. I did not mean to upset you. Or anybody else for that matter. I used poor choices of words.

[moke64916]

Umm, how humble is it to judge somebody as to whether they are humble (in YOUR estimation or not) smacks of arrogance Imho. And I don't see how being 'present in the moment has anything at all to do w/humility. One can be as arrogant as ever and still be in the moment/inthe now.

I choose to not speak anymore on your hurtful words. But don't ever judge me on my spiritual growth. That is off limits. That hurt my feelings. I don't want a reply. I choose right now to remain silent and off of this thread. Because if you truly knew how I felt while writing it, you would not have made that comment, unless you would have.

[Silver]

I wasn't even referring to anything you said moke, btw, 3dnow picked up on that I was referring to some stuff HE said, not you, so and the reason I responded at all was because I felt slapped by the comments by both slice and 3dnow (and I assure you, I believe they were unintentional but they still stung), but nothing you posted had anything whatsoever I mean, you, moke and any of your comments had NOTHING to do with my response. I think there's something in the air because a lot of people are touchy these past couple of days, weeks, idk. I responded to defend what I thought was accurate, nothing to attack anybody, not intending that, anyway.

[Gracey]

:smile:best wishes on your journey to becoming humble jan.:wink:

[Silver]

Ty Gracey, sorry Jan~*

[Honza]

There are a few curt responses here....it obviously touches upon a nerve. But thankyou to all for their replies.

It seems that some people believe it is possible to humble oneself while others don't.

But I don't see any harm in trying! :D

[3dnow]

I wasn't even referring to anything you said moke, btw, 3dnow picked up on that I was referring to some stuff HE said, not you, so and the reason I responded at all was because I felt slapped by the comments by both slice and 3dnow (and I assure you, I believe they were unintentional but they still stung), but nothing you posted had anything whatsoever I mean, you, moke and any of your comments had NOTHING to do with my response. I think there's something in the air because a lot of people are touchy these past couple of days, weeks, idk. I responded to defend what I thought was accurate, nothing to attack anybody, not intending that, anyway.

Hi Silvergirl, I don't understand why but I am sorry if my comments hurt you. They were not even for you nor Honza, I was speaking to noone we are all the same after all.

Cheers,

3dnow

[Silver]

It's obviously a more sensitive subject than many are willing to admit, self included. I just had a strong inexplicable sense that it was important to maintain some sort of humility, even though I may not have understood what it entailed completely, then or now. Some unknown drive was pushing me to pray for it for myself, it wasn't my idea, it makes me wonder as much now as back then (in the 80's).

[psychoslice]

Oh lord its hard to be humble, when your perfect in every way...remember that song lol.:smile: :angel8:

[Silver]

Oh lord its hard to be humble, when your perfect in every way...remember that song lol.:smile: :angel8:


Yes, I do remember that one, slice.
Well, I remember that line anyway.

I guess you don't believe as I do or appear to?
These things aren't easy to explain. But I was
just telling how during this period of time, what
went through my mind, for reasons beyond my
understanding.

I respect your opinions, slice. Do you think I'm un-humble?

Hahaha! How does this dress make me look, ****!

[psychoslice]

Yes, I do remember that one, slice.
Well, I remember that line anyway.

I guess you don't believe as I do or appear to?
These things aren't easy to explain. But I was
just telling how during this period of time, what
went through my mind, for reasons beyond my
understanding.

I respect your opinions, slice. Do you think I'm un-humble?

Hahaha! How does this dress make me look, ****!
I don't know if your humble or not, I don't even know if I am lol, but yea I like your dress, nmmmm very nice.:smile:

[Deusdrum]

I agree that humility is very important. It has been one of my main (ongoing) lessons of life. I don't think a person can ever be kind or compassionate as a human being without having some degree of humility.

It is kind of freeing too. You don't have to constantly worry about how great you are. Its tiring & hard work being so important all the time.

Trust me, i should know.Jk. :rolleyes: I have a reputation to uphold... and my back is getting sore.

[Silver]

I don't know if your humble or not, I don't even know if I am lol, but yea I like your dress, nmmmm very nice.:smile:

I needed a laugh this morning, Slice! Ty~*
http://i.somethingawful.com/forumsystem/emoticons/emot-niggly.gif

[Silver]

I agree that humility is very important. It has been one of my main (ongoing) lessons of life. I don't think a person can ever be kind or compassionate as a human being without having some degree of humility.

It is kind of freeing too. You don't have to constantly worry about how great you are. Its tiring & hard work being so important all the time.

Trust me, i should know.Jk. :rolleyes: I have a reputation to uphold... and my back is getting sore.


Funnnny, guys! Excellent~*

[Internal Queries]

i'm really proud of my humbleness. no kisses "God's" feet better than i do. lol

[Silver]

i'm really proud of my humbleness. no kisses "God's" feet better than i do. lol


Now THAT's humble, rofl!
http://i.somethingawful.com/forumsystem/emoticons/emot-golfclap.gif

[3dnow]

i'm really proud of my humbleness. no kisses "God's" feet better than i do. lol

Haha. Actually when I understood that divine does not judge my pride I observed that I magically become humble.

So I believe self-judgement like I shouldn't be arrogant is the wrong way to being humble.

3dnow