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Honza
20-06-2011, 06:33 AM
Many people across the world are now claiming themselves to be God. It is common practice in Hinduism and perhaps Buddhism.

How far are we from Jews claiming to be God too? From claiming that they ARE Jehovah.

It is not common practice for Jews to claim that they are God. Jews practice the discipline of being subservient to God.

But what would happen if some Jews actually claimed that they are Jehovah?

nightowl
20-06-2011, 06:38 AM
Hey Honza,

Well, not being Jewish myself, from observation I would say if they did so they were not following Jewish traditional beliefs, so I am not sure they would even be considered Jewish if they were to believe such a thing. :smile:

nightowl

Honza
20-06-2011, 07:04 AM
Do you think that Judaism could ever evolve into a state where Jews would be allowed and accepted to call themselves God?

nightowl
20-06-2011, 07:12 AM
I suppose anything is possible, I don't think such a belief would be accepted as Judaism though. If they stick to their holy scriptures as a guide I would think it would be hard pressed to get the Jewish nation to forsake Torah. imo...:smile:

nightowl

Honza
20-06-2011, 07:17 AM
Is the Torah totally in contradiction to calling oneself God? Can it not be interpreted as though one IS God? I don't know enough about it.

Is the Torah not a path by which one eventually becomes God? That is the question.

nightowl
20-06-2011, 07:25 AM
Is the Torah totally in contradiction to calling oneself God? Can it not be interpreted as though one IS God? I don't know enough about it.

Is the Torah not a path by which one eventually becomes God? That is the question.

Honestly I am answering from a place of novice when it come to Torah teachings from the Jewish perspective, but what I do know and understand from the OT I do not believe there is any teaching to support that man is God.
It may elude to the fact that when we pass over we can become one with God, as to where God is, but not becoming God. At least that is my understanding...

Honza
20-06-2011, 07:55 AM
Thanks Nightowl.

RabbiO
20-06-2011, 11:01 AM
Honestly I am answering from a place of novice when it come to Torah teachings from the Jewish perspective, but what I do know and understand from the OT I do not believe there is any teaching to support that man is God.
It may elude to the fact that when we pass over we can become one with God, as to where God is, but not becoming God. At least that is my understanding...

When you folks take a breath, maybe I'll get a word in edgewise.

B'shalom,

Peter

Honza
20-06-2011, 11:38 AM
When you folks take a breath, maybe I'll get a word in edgewise.

B'shalom,

Peter

After you Peter..... :D

I'm all ears!

nightowl
20-06-2011, 07:19 PM
Of course Peter, please instruct us...

nightowl

RabbiO
20-06-2011, 09:29 PM
Do you think that Judaism could ever evolve into a state where Jews would be allowed and accepted to call themselves God?

To begin with, in response to your original post, there is no deity named Jehovah in Judaism - never was, never will be. Jehovah is the Germanization of what happens if one mistakenly reads the vowels for Adonai with the letters of the tetragrammaton. The vowels are simply there to remind one to say Adonai instead of trying to pronounce the divine name.

I would be remiss, as well, if I did not tell you that although I am sure you did not mean for it to be so, your statement above comes off as condescending. It's as if I were to ask if Honzaism could ever evolve into a state where Honzaites would allowed to accept that they are not, themselves, G-d.

One of the problems with your question is that there is an unspoken assumption that Judaism is a monolith. It never was. Even in the times of Jesus it was not question of Pharisees, Sadducees, Essenes, and Zealots because each of those groups was not monolithic in terms of the members. I always try to make clear that most often I am giving a A Jewish viewpoint because on so many issues there is not one viewpoint that can be properly called THE Jewish viewpoint.

One of the major thrusts of Jewish mysticism is panentheism and that thrust is alive and well in the Hasdic movement and elsewhere. You would do well to start exploring it. I would also point you to Jay Michaelson's book from a year or two ago "Everything is G-d". If you look for it put the "o" between the "g" and the "d". Michaelson is not a Hasid.

An interesting thing about the Jewish approach is, presuming one accepts the position posited, that this knowledge/awareness is not the end of the trail, it is the just a starting point.

B'shalom,

Petre

Honza
21-06-2011, 04:49 AM
Okay, so Jewish mysticism accepts that "everything is God". I guess any kind of mysticism from any religion accepts the same thing. Because such is the nature of mysticism. Christian mystics would accept the same.

The Kabbalah was mentioned in the review of the book recommended. Kabbalah is Jewish mysticism, correct?

I guess the three western main religions i.e. Islam, Judaism and Christianity won't accept such ideas for a long time. But the mystics will.

It is the Kabbalah I must explore...

nightowl
21-06-2011, 05:00 AM
Hey Honza,

I just thought I would share with you that I have been exploring Kabbalah for about two months now. Amazing insights...:smile:

Thanks RabbiO for sharing your insights. :smile:

nightowl

A Glass named Esther
23-06-2011, 06:02 PM
I always try to make clear that most often I am giving a A Jewish viewpoint because on so many issues there is not one viewpoint that can be properly called THE Jewish viewpoint.



This reminds me of a point my Rabbi made the other night during a lecture. The example was regarding two doctors debating over the treatment of a patient. Essentially, if both doctors were debating altruistically for the sake of the patient, this debate is good and could help improve the patient's treatment. Multiple perspectives can help our understandings and actions so long as the motivation isn't selfish.

So too, it is good to seek the truth and altruistically debate for the sake of Heaven. :smile:

-esther

A Glass named Esther
23-06-2011, 06:07 PM
One of the major thrusts of Jewish mysticism is panentheism and that thrust is alive and well in the Hasdic movement and elsewhere.



I'm not following, can you please help explain?

Thank you,

-esther

Elijah
24-06-2011, 01:55 PM
If someone says they are God it doesn't mean they are personally God.
They are saying that there is only God and nothing is other than that, in this realization there is no 'I' to be God.
There isn't a wave proclaiming to be the ocean, there is only ocean, expressing through the apparent wave.

gentledove
24-06-2011, 10:37 PM
To begin with, in response to your original post, there is no deity named Jehovah in Judaism - never was, never will be. Jehovah is the Germanization of what happens if one mistakenly reads the vowels for Adonai with the letters of the tetragrammaton. The vowels are simply there to remind one to say Adonai instead of trying to pronounce the divine name.

I would be remiss, as well, if I did not tell you that although I am sure you did not mean for it to be so, your statement above comes off as condescending. It's as if I were to ask if Honzaism could ever evolve into a state where Honzaites would allowed to accept that they are not, themselves, G-d.

One of the problems with your question is that there is an unspoken assumption that Judaism is a monolith. It never was. Even in the times of Jesus it was not question of Pharisees, Sadducees, Essenes, and Zealots because each of those groups was not monolithic in terms of the members. I always try to make clear that most often I am giving a A Jewish viewpoint because on so many issues there is not one viewpoint that can be properly called THE Jewish viewpoint.

One of the major thrusts of Jewish mysticism is panentheism and that thrust is alive and well in the Hasdic movement and elsewhere. You would do well to start exploring it. I would also point you to Jay Michaelson's book from a year or two ago "Everything is G-d". If you look for it put the "o" between the "g" and the "d". Michaelson is not a Hasid.

An interesting thing about the Jewish approach is, presuming one accepts the position posited, that this knowledge/awareness is not the end of the trail, it is the just a starting point.

B'shalom,

Petre

Sometime after my experience I heard a unfamiliar male voice say "adonai". It was out of the blue and I'd never heard anything like that before as it sounded like it was coming from outside myself and no one else was present.

I didn't remember hearing/reading about that word before, though I may have sometime or other. Also, I'd never heard the word before. It was pronounced add-done-I. How is it supposed to be pronounced?

Soooo, I know I asked in another thread, but I can't get to these forums that often (just worked 11 days straight). Why does Judaism write the word God as G-D?

Maybe I heard the word to place a curiosity in my heart? It did, but I didn't pursue it much. I know that it's connected with the word Elohim which could be a plural for God? I didn't hear the word Elohim, but that actually interested me more somehow. Elohim would suggest a "many in One" kind of relationship.

Well, maybe I need to look into the meaning of Adonai more? From what 7illuminaries described it has to do with a particular kind of very close relationship with G-D? I also want to look into "the word". If you could help me with that...where to begin?

Hope I can find this thread again to read your answer. :tongue:

gentledove
25-06-2011, 05:28 PM
I'm sorry I guess it's written G-d, hope I haven't offended.

I know I probably seem lazy here for not investigating for myself, but I have little time. I rely quite a bit on the knowledge of strangers.:tongue:

Is Judaism a "secret" religion for an elite? Can anyone learn it?

Rivendoah
25-06-2011, 05:41 PM
Many people across the world are now claiming themselves to be God. It is common practice in Hinduism and perhaps Buddhism.

How far are we from Jews claiming to be God too? From claiming that they ARE Jehovah.

It is not common practice for Jews to claim that they are God. Jews practice the discipline of being subservient to God.

But what would happen if some Jews actually claimed that they are Jehovah?
I think there is a difference between calling yourself as an individual god rather then say that we are all part of god... together we form God... I think that is more what is being expressed...

A Glass named Esther
28-06-2011, 03:16 PM
I'm sorry I guess it's written G-d, hope I haven't offended.

I know I probably seem lazy here for not investigating for myself, but I have little time. I rely quite a bit on the knowledge of strangers.:tongue:

Is Judaism a "secret" religion for an elite? Can anyone learn it?

Hi gentledove, the hyphen is a custom so you haven't offended anyone with that:smile:

I would, however, avoid using any of the Holy Names in general conversation.

I guess something is a "secret" if you don't know about it. Learning Torah isn't reserved for an "elite".

For non-Jews learning Torah I would recommend having a look at:
http://www.noahide.org/ (http://www.spiritualforums.com/vb/redir.php?link=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.noahide.org%2F)

Non-Jews are not bound by Torah in the same way, but are very welcome to learn anything that pertains to their relationship with Hashem.

As far as the different names I recommend reading :
http://www.askmoses.com/en/article/419,2024029/Why-is-the-name-Elohim-plural.html (http://www.spiritualforums.com/vb/redir.php?link=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.askmoses.com%2Fen% 2Farticle%2F419%2C2024029%2FWhy-is-the-name-Elohim-plural.html)


http://www.chabad.org/kabbalah/article_cdo/aid/379815/jewish/Hidden-Mercies.htm (http://www.spiritualforums.com/vb/redir.php?link=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.chabad.org%2Fkabba lah%2Farticle_cdo%2Faid%2F379815%2Fjewish%2FHidden -Mercies.htm)

Hope this helps,

-esther

A Glass named Esther
28-06-2011, 03:27 PM
I think there is a difference between calling yourself as an individual god rather then say that we are all part of god... together we form God... I think that is more what is being expressed...

I think I know what you are getting at, but we can take a moment to clarify the logic.

Together, we should all strive to reveal G-d here on earth through our own actions. However, when saying we are part of G-d, we shouldn't confuse that to mean that we form G-d.

-esther

7luminaries
28-06-2011, 03:59 PM
To begin with, in response to your original post, there is no deity named Jehovah in Judaism - never was, never will be. Jehovah is the Germanization of what happens if one mistakenly reads the vowels for Adonai with the letters of the tetragrammaton. The vowels are simply there to remind one to say Adonai instead of trying to pronounce the divine name.

I would be remiss, as well, if I did not tell you that although I am sure you did not mean for it to be so, your statement above comes off as condescending. It's as if I were to ask if Honzaism could ever evolve into a state where Honzaites would allowed to accept that they are not, themselves, G-d.

One of the problems with your question is that there is an unspoken assumption that Judaism is a monolith. It never was. Even in the times of Jesus it was not question of Pharisees, Sadducees, Essenes, and Zealots because each of those groups was not monolithic in terms of the members. I always try to make clear that most often I am giving a A Jewish viewpoint because on so many issues there is not one viewpoint that can be properly called THE Jewish viewpoint.

One of the major thrusts of Jewish mysticism is panentheism and that thrust is alive and well in the Hasdic movement and elsewhere. You would do well to start exploring it. I would also point you to Jay Michaelson's book from a year or two ago "Everything is G-d". If you look for it put the "o" between the "g" and the "d". Michaelson is not a Hasid.

An interesting thing about the Jewish approach is, presuming one accepts the position posited, that this knowledge/awareness is not the end of the trail, it is the just a starting point.

B'shalom,

Petre

I love Jay Michaelson's work. LOVE it. I am reading "God in the Body". Cannot say enough good things about it. Really amazing.

Next on the list, "Everything is God"!

It is just a starting point. There are many who want to linger here in this realisation rather than getting back to being, to the intentions & actions of intentional living or co-creation.

As they say we still have to chop wood and carry water but from then on, we realise the miraculous and sacred nature of All. And we contribute to it, this time with kavanah.

l'shalom,
7L

sbjazzman
21-03-2012, 04:35 PM
The goal was not to become God but to co-create with God to restore the world to it's original light. This was to be accomplished by becoming a nation of Priests - ritualistic practices meant to raise us up from the sparks that emitted when the world could not contain the promordial light. The template referred to as the model is called Adam Kadmon. I would google that to get the Jewish Mystical insight into your question.