The Christianity I experience is like...

[Lightspirit]

It seems to me at every mention of christianity on forums strong negatives are sometimes thrust into thread replies by some who oppose it and it made me wonder if people really do understand christianity as would someone who lives and breathes it daily as Living faith and relationship with God.

Write the positives of your christianity experiences for all to see through the eyes of a Christian.
Christianity isn't the only force for good in the world but it can be a very good one.




























it

[Lightspirit]

My belief is of the evangelical Christian one like Pentecostal. I am writing this as an observation of what positives I see.

Many don’t understand where Christianity is growing fastest now.

Christianity is powering in Africa and Asian countries. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christianity_in_Africa#External_links

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Major_r...s_demographics


The Africans send missionaries to western countries now like Australia.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/David_Yonggi_Cho

That’s a background to help you understand the next bit.


Its really alive and happening in those countries. These are not nominal Christians. Christianity is really changing these countries in a good way (our pastor in Australia here went to the Congo to help with the churches there and the corrupt government was so impressed with the message that was changing lives on people there it is creating peace and honesty.

The government got him in to talk to officials about morals and honesty,because they want to stamp out the current dishonest ways. They teach destitute street women to sew and read which is a HUGE achievement to them. They are giving people dignity and sense of self worth their society robbed them of because of lack of resourses. The churches name in that country is highly esteemed by the people as it has improved their way of life and ability to interact more peacefully


Last week some Africans- a band came to our church to perform from the Congo. Half way through the lead singer said to us parts of the band were his family. He said as a child his one and only dream was to have more than one meal a day and his mother cried every week because she could not afford to feed them. One day a Christian mission picked his brother as a sponsor child through something like compassion.

That sponsorship was like winning the lottery to them 20 bucks a month in the 70's and 80's The christians in Africa educated him too through this which was a high privilege for any kid to get. The 2 brothers and their friend shared this sponsorship. Christians and charity workers made that possible, as did whoever paid for the sponsorship. They said Christians were the ones teaching them language skills and helping them.


Christianity in its proper form is a powerful work of good in the world. I live it and see it. Because of that church, with luck next week they will take me to help out street kids and prostitutes get off the street.. And our standard drunks on Saturday night.. I think I might get those. I cant wait to go it wil be fun they are such nice people both my Christian friends and those they help are :). My church is constantly doing things to benefit the community and build up people in it to go back and make appositive difference. This weekend all the guys will renovate a house as best they can to help a poorer family. Just to be nice.

I cannot help but be proud of my association with this group of people.

People with good natures and honorable intentions.

I se my Christianity that influences me change lives. But besides that I enjoy it myself.

[Triner]

Lightworkerau,

Interesting that you should post about how wonderful the spread of Christianity is in Africa... You should read "Of Water and the Spirit" by Malidoma Some for an African's point of view on the Christian missions in Africa, quite saddening.

I also see Christians living in Love and Compassion and helping others quite often. I think that's wonderful.

[Lightspirit]

Lightworkerau,

Interesting that you should post about how wonderful the spread of Christianity is in Africa... You should read "Of Water and the Spirit" by Malidoma Some for an African's point of view on the Christian missions in Africa, quite saddening.

I also see Christians living in Love and Compassion and helping others quite often. I think that's wonderful. Thanks for your reply.


From whats happening in 2011 the feed back I am getting is one of thankfulness. I was in Fiji a couple of years ago, and it was the same story there. Every village had church and it was pride of place it was their choice to have it. The missionaries that died and got eaten that took the bible in there helped stop them killing and eating each other. Because of what they did it helped bring peace and prosperity to that country. and also the English took in some indians which they are not so fussed on but you take the good with the bad.

One guy I was talking to at the resort said he went down to a village. In it he met the chief. "The chief sad to him we have much to thank you for"
The guy said Iv done nothing what am i getting thanked for?
Bringing the bible here was his reply. Then he said if it wasn't for that book it would be you in that pot for dinner. Thats what stopped it.

Cannibalism stopped there in something like 1927. The place has virtually no crime and its safe to walk around anywhere. I didn't see it coming till the locals told me all about it. it was the first time I saw first hand what it could change in a culture.

[Triner]

Thanks for your reply.


From whats happening in 2011 the feed back I am getting is one of thankfulness. I was in Fiji a couple of years ago, and it was the same story there. Every village had church and it was pride of place it was their choice to have it. The missionaries that died and got eaten that took the bible in there helped stop them killing and eating each other. Because of what they did it helped bring peace and prosperity to that country. and also the English took in some indians which they are not so fussed on but you take the good with the bad.

One guy I was talking to at the resort said he went down to a village. In it he met the chief. "The chief sad to him we have much to thank you for"
The guy said Iv done nothing what am i getting thanked for?
Bringing the bible here was his reply. Then he said if it wasn't for that book it would be you in that pot for dinner. Thats what stopped it.

Cannibalism stopped there in something like 1927. The place has virtually no crime and its safe to walk around anywhere. I didn't see it coming till the locals told me all about it. it was the first time I saw first hand what it could change in a culture.


All I'll say is read the book. The missionaries also came in, ripped families apart and destroyed cultures. It's very similar to what missionaries did on the Native America Indian reservations. It's basically cultural genocide in the name of religion.

I'm not saying ALL the missionaries did was bad. But their arrogance and distain was very destructive.

[Prokopton]

It seems to me at every mention of christianity on forums strong negatives are sometimes thrust into thread replies by some who oppose it

Personally I don't oppose it at all, but I do oppose its exclusivism. (That is, its claim to be the 'only true path' -- it isn't.) As you've said, you don't think it is the only force for good... some people here do not agree with you on that. They think the only two possibilities are Christianity or ignorant darkness, a position which is clearly against all principle as well as all common sense.

In fact I would like to call on Christians who think that other paths can be valid to step up and say so, to their brothers and sisters who continually preach otherwise!

I'd like to hear more from WonderLight for example, in this spirit of this thread, about the Christianity he experiences. Hesychasm is very interesting to me, and I'm wondering if WonderLight ever practiced it or learned it and where...

It's very similar to what missionaries did on the Native America Indian reservations. It's basically cultural genocide in the name of religion.

Sadly there certainly is this aspect to missionary work and conversion in principle. This has been going on since the persecution of paganism began in the 4th century. I keep meaning to do a few posts on that.

However when it comes to charitable work Christians here in the UK are acknowledged to do a sterling job.

[athribiristan]

It seems to me at every mention of christianity on forums strong negatives are sometimes thrust into thread replies by some who oppose it and it made me wonder if people really do understand christianity as would someone who lives and breathes it daily as Living faith and relationship with God.

Write the positives of your christianity experiences for all to see through the eyes of a Christian.
Christianity isn't the only force for good in the world but it can be a very good one.



My experiences with Christians have been very mixed. My experience with Christ has been nothing short of miraculous. I have encountered him twice and both times it changed my life in ways that I am still trying to understand.

He never asked me to follow him, he never claimed to be the one path to God. He just told me what I needed to know at that time and left. He taught me the power of forgiveness, the meaning of free will, and the symbolism behind his resurrection.

I have also been inspired by a few of the 'true' Christians that I have met over the years. They have been few and far between but they have shown me that even in the sea of people who give lip service to Christ that at least a few seem to see the truth of his message and live it.

[theophilus]

He never asked me to follow him, he never claimed to be the one path to God.For false christs and false prophets will arise and perform signs and wonders, to lead astray, if possible, the elect.
Mark 13:22 ESV

Have you ever considered the possibility that the Christ who appeared to you was one of these false Christs? The Christ of the Bible did claim to be the only path to God and he called on everyone to follow him.

[nightowl]

I was involved in Christianity for 20 years. I saw both good and bad in the Christian churches. I have attended both conservative and charismatic churches. I taught Bible studies and did prophetic ministry and mission trips. I mention these things not to brag but show that I was not just a minimal participant.

I do want to share an opinion that many of the problems I experienced in the church were associated with the people. As with any group religious or not group dynamics do play a part in how things are run. What was taught or believed usually came down from leadership, some were legalistic and some were liberal. I believe that most people who feel aversion to Christian doctrine probably were somehow effected by legalistic and evangelical adherents then the liberal adherents to Jesus.

Christianity did help me realize that there was more to God than my simple understanding and did help me go deeper with the Spirit of God. I still believe in a monotheistic God. I have learned throughout the years that the teachings based in the Bible are questionable. What is really from God and what is really man’s interpretation is so intertwined with translation errors and misunderstanding of the original text that the Bible for me is a mess. The more I grew closer to God and the Spirit the more I could see the inconsistencies of the God I was experiencing and the one written about in Christian scripture and doctrine. The teachings of Jesus speak to my heart and about how we should treat one another, they do touch my spirit, but I always struggled with the idea of only salvation through him. This again seemed inconsistent with the God I knew.

I think that Christianity can become a judgment monster. When religious teaching points to how evil we are and how only certain people will get to go to heaven will rub against many. Christianity has produced good and bad. It has produced arrogant judgmental people and doctrines that build on human fears. It has produced wonderful organizations of aid and help. So any systems that involve people can generate both positive and negative outcomes and feelings.

The best thing it ever taught me was to never just sit by and let things be if you know they are wrong, now that pertains to both inside and outside of the church. To research and investigate what others teach. That all people experience God and it doesn’t matter what religious system you attach yourself to the important thing is to believe, connect and live your life to the end of loving God and loving others as yourself here in is the heart of spiritual living. There is so much more I could share but...:smile:

nightowl

[athribiristan]

For false christs and false prophets will arise and perform signs and wonders, to lead astray, if possible, the elect.
Mark 13:22 ESV

Have you ever considered the possibility that the Christ who appeared to you was one of these false Christs? The Christ of the Bible did claim to be the only path to God and he called on everyone to follow him.

Yes, I have considered this. The being I met was Christ. You can't fake that. I don't believe Jesus ever said that he was the only way to God. He knew too much to make such an obvious error. Certainly he never said anything like that to me. Which would you have me believe? The direct word of God, or the misremembered, mistranslated and purposefully altered text called the Bible? I have been taught to trust direct experience over the truth of others. This is what led me to God, and later to Christ. Should I discount that, then God would be false...Christ would be false.

I have had many messages from God himself and the two from Christ, his son. Does that make me a Christian? No, it does not. It makes me nothing but based on those messages I have chosen to be the servant of God. He has never required that I worship or in any way follow Christ. I am grateful for the beauty and Truth that has been shared with me by the Christ Consciousness, but part of that Truth is that wisdom carries no obligation to serve. He has given a great gift without requiring anything of me. That is Love and that is part of his message. If he required that I serve him then he would not be teaching Love.

[Lightspirit]

Yes, I have considered this. The being I met was Christ. You can't fake that. I don't believe Jesus ever said that he was the only way to God. He knew too much to make such an obvious error. Certainly he never said anything like that to me. Which would you have me believe? The direct word of God, or the misremembered, mistranslated and purposefully altered text called the Bible? I have been taught to trust direct experience over the truth of others. This is what led me to God, and later to Christ. Should I discount that, then God would be false...Christ would be false.

I have had many messages from God himself and the two from Christ, his son. Does that make me a Christian? No, it does not. It makes me nothing but based on those messages I have chosen to be the servant of God. He has never required that I worship or in any way follow Christ. I am grateful for the beauty and Truth that has been shared with me by the Christ Consciousness, but part of that Truth is that wisdom carries no obligation to serve. He has given a great gift without requiring anything of me. That is Love and that is part of his message. If he required that I serve him then he would not be teaching Love.athribiristan while respecting your choices and beliefs I wont attempt to correct any of it with regard to your beliefs in Jesus because they are yours. There is one thing that I would like to share with you I learned when questioning the way the bible was written and the way the gospels were written 70 years later AD.

With Ancient history, say for example what we know of roman emperors and famous people recorded in historical writings, it was very normal for a time period of years to go by after events and their recording in paper as paper was incredibly expensive then and they didn't just write stuff down like we do.

The way stories were transferred was Oral traditions. At that time A lot of stuff recorded in the gospels was common knowledge. Jesus fed thousands via miracles which means thousands knew. More ancient documentation exists regarding Jesus life than any other person in history. Its really worth the exercise to understand about how the ancients recorded things to help you put more faith in older writings. Nicodemus a roman historian also recorded things about Jesus independently that also correlate to the writings in the bible.

The same method of recordding the life and actions of Jesus was also used with Nero and Julius Caesar.

something like this helps a lot

http://www.amazon.com/Investigating-Jesus-Historians-John-****son/dp/0745953506

I have just been through this as i was discouraged a few years ago when I began to question it all but understanding this returned my faith much more than when I started. I have no doubt now.

[Chrysaetos]

The missionaries also came in, ripped families apart and destroyed cultures. It's very similar to what missionaries did on the Native America Indian reservations. It's basically cultural genocide in the name of religion.

I'm not saying ALL the missionaries did was bad. But their arrogance and distain was very destructive.Good post ^^

More ancient documentation exists regarding Jesus life than any other person in history. Actually, outside the Gospels there are few ancient sources that mention him.

[norseman]

The problem which runs through this, and other threads, is the mistaken idea which equates Christ with Christianity. One has little to do with the other. Christ - one of the teachers of man. Christianity - a political organisation and a source of much evil in the world.
Now add the bible. A collection of writings which has been revised, edited, extended, abridged, translated over and over again, yet is taken as the "word of God" when it clearly is the work of many men over the centuries.

[mattie]

In having read many such replies as well as posted them the objections about Christianity aren’t about the positive teachings such as Jesus’ authentic message of respect, love, tolerance, & equality for different classes of people.

Many view discussing religions’ (all of them) to be useful. They don't feel required to accept ALL of the beliefs as a package in a take it or leave it manner.

My perspective that includes a thorough traditional organized religion background. My parents’ religion included intensive bible study even for youngsters. I’ve read the bible cover to cover & many sections multiple times. I know it thoroughly, & have, as an adult, chosen my own belief system that I’m much more comfortable w/.

I began to actively reject this religion’s mainstays such as the hell business & all that is connected w/ this idea by the time I was 9 years old even though all around me were Christian. Nobody was exploring other religions, even others types of Protestant Christianity. As an adult I’ve come to the belief that ANY belief system or religion that preaches that we are inherently flawed (sinners) is damaging to people’s self worth.

Others have the right to select the belief system or religion that works for them. Many have an issue w/ ANY religion that displays intolerance, insisting that others adopt their beliefs or that they are inferior for selecting other beliefs.

[mattie]

Duplicate post.

[mattie]

Duplicate post.

[Lightspirit]

Good post ^^

Actually, outside the Gospels there are few ancient sources that mention him.


I think this was supposed to be a nice positive thread about the good it does.





The 4 gospels were written after the some of the other books of the new testament there are 23 others besides the gospels.

Matthew mark and luke are virtually the same except they are written to different audiences. Matthew is for Jewish cristians to understand. Mark is for greek christians. luke I cant remember. John is different again

Thessalonians were letters to the church in Thessalanonia It was the first document written. Then came others. The remaining books of the new testament also have Jesus as a central theme. Those are pre 1st century

Dead sea scrolls, Apocrypha ( books not in the bible but still of value). Gnostic gospels too but those are unreliable, but not a bad read regardless.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tacitus_on_Christ#English_translation

http://www.facingthechallenge.org/josephus.php <<< read that one guys


http://www.facingthechallenge.org/serapion.php

There is also a record of some important lady in persia who notes the sun going dark or something like that. I wish I had my book I lent it to my brother in law Cant back this one up with links until I get it back sigh claimed forever I think.

[mattie]

Personally I don't oppose it at all, but I do oppose its exclusivism. (That is, its claim to be the 'only true path' -- it isn't.) ...

Respecting others' beliefs is a huge issue. This religion chose to present it's religious stories as HISTORY rather than as teaching allegories. This has created a huge problem for it as this stance requires it to be invested in converting others (least they suffer everlasting hell & damnation) if they aren't saved.

Adopting a position of tolerance & respect for others' beliefs could save it, but I'm not holding my breath.

[mattie]

I think this was supposed to be a nice positive thread about the good it does. as usual everyone drops bad things in . ...

There is a section of the site where one can post w/o opposing opinions being offered if one chooses.

[Asrais]

I was brought up in a Catholic family - my parents weren't too religious, though we had to attend church on Sundays and were in a Catholic school, they weren't too strict, but my grandmother is a real fundamentalist. When I was approaching my Confirmation (so around 12) I started asking questions, like "how do we know there is a God?" Well, I got thoroughly told off and basically shunned by my grandmother until only a few years ago. I was just a child, trying to learn, but when she couldn't come up with an answer for me, she decided I was the black sheep of the family.

That part of my life has very much tainted the way I see the Christian church - I spent many years thinking there was no God, because the only option I had been given was the God that would allow children to be punished and shunned for asking questions.

Since moving to Australia I have made one really good friend who is a Christian and she has very much changed my views. She is a wonderful person, she does so much to help others all in the name of her church. She, along with many of the people here on SF, have made me realize, the good side of Christianity.

I believe that some Christians get so caught up in trying to save everybody, they forget to be Christian-like themselves.

I have a lot of respect for Christianity, but I do wish that Christianity would have more respect for others.

[Lightspirit]

In having read many such replies as well as posted them the objections about Christianity aren’t about the positive teachings such as Jesus’ authentic message of respect, love, tolerance, & equality for different classes of people.

Many view discussing religions’ (all of them) to be useful. They don't feel required to accept ALL of the beliefs as a package in a take it or leave it manner.

My perspective that includes a thorough traditional organized religion background. My parents’ religion included intensive bible study even for youngsters. I’ve read the bible cover to cover & many sections multiple times. I know it thoroughly, & have, as an adult, chosen my own belief system that I’m much more comfortable w/.

I began to actively reject this religion’s mainstays such as the hell business & all that is connected w/ this idea by the time I was 9 years old even though all around me were Christian. Nobody was exploring other religions, even others types of Protestant Christianity. As an adult I’ve come to the belief that ANY belief system or religion that preaches that we are inherently flawed (sinners) is damaging to people’s self worth.

Others have the right to select the belief system or religion that works for them. Many have an issue w/ ANY religion that displays intolerance, insisting that others adopt their beliefs or that they are inferior for selecting other beliefs. You are so right you know I couldnt agree more. The exapmle people set of thier beliefs is what wil attract others. forcing someone with your beliefs is not a good plan . This thread was never meant to be about that. Its supposed to be about positives.

[Lightspirit]

Since moving to Australia I have made one really good friend who is a Christian and she has very much changed my views. She is a wonderful person, she does so much to help others all in the name of her church. She, along with many of the people here on SF, have made me realize, the good side of Christianity.

I believe that some Christians get so caught up in trying to save everybody, they forget to be Christian-like themselves.

I have a lot of respect for Christianity, but I do wish that Christianity would have more respect for others. I am so glad you found a better example of it :) I dont know anything about that catholic stuff. (many whinge about it for some reason)


Our pastor told us never to put our standards on anyone. If someone comes to church we accept them how they are. Its all good what they do in their lives is up to them they make the choices how they alter their lives to embrace christianity if they choose to. Regarding intolerance If we want the change we will have to be the change.

Have you been to a pentecostal church yet? they are really a fun experience. its like a concert some of them, with spiritual stuff goin on.. I love it its so encouraging, you can get on little high. And a big one too

I do you sorta geta complex too I do every time i write something it dont mean I am trying to convert anyone. I am just talking about my life and what I do. I am forever thinking to myself how can I write that so people dont think I am trying to convert them?

[Prokopton]

Respecting others' beliefs is a huge issue. This religion chose to present it's religious stories as HISTORY rather than as teaching allegories. This has created a huge problem for it as this stance requires it to be invested in converting others (least they suffer everlasting hell & damnation) if they aren't saved.

Well yes... there's also the fact that it was used to prop up the Roman Empire and did quite a bit of actively persecuting everyone else, for which it still feels guilt I suspect.

This is a pattern one sees occasionally... falun gong is similar right now. If you read Acts and then follow it with some readings about falun gong, you find the ferment that produced them very similar.


Adopting a position of tolerance & respect for others' beliefs could save it, but I'm not holding my breath.

But that's the irony... there are huge numbers of Christians who do that, and some with a lot of insight too. I'm thinking about people like Paul F. Knitter for example, who has totally bitten that bullet as you can tell from the title of his book, Without Buddha I Could Not Be A Christian (http://www.amazon.com/Without-Buddha-Could-Not-Christian/dp/1851686738/ref=sr_1_2?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1307449381&sr=1-2), which for me is taking it even a bit too far! But seriously, that guy is a very real theologian, and he has influence.

EDIT: Oh and BTW I'm quite happy to believe in the literal truth of Jesus as history, and that he worked miracles and was resurrected etc. Such things have happened in other paths, why not with Jesus?

[athribiristan]

athribiristan while respecting your choices and beliefs I wont attempt to correct any of it with regard to your beliefs in Jesus because they are yours. There is one thing that I would like to share with you I learned when questioning the way the bible was written and the way the gospels were written 70 years later AD.

With Ancient history, say for example what we know of roman emperors and famous people recorded in historical writings, it was very normal for a time period of years to go by after events and their recording in paper as paper was incredibly expensive then and they didn't just write stuff down like we do.

The way stories were transferred was Oral traditions. At that time A lot of stuff recorded in the gospels was common knowledge. Jesus fed thousands via miracles which means thousands knew. More ancient documentation exists regarding Jesus life than any other person in history. Its really worth the exercise to understand about how the ancients recorded things to help you put more faith in older writings. Nicodemus a roman historian also recorded things about Jesus independently that also correlate to the writings in the bible.

The same method of recordding the life and actions of Jesus was also used with Nero and Julius Caesar.

something like this helps a lot

http://www.amazon.com/Investigating-Jesus-Historians-John-****son/dp/0745953506

I have just been through this as i was discouraged a few years ago when I began to question it all but understanding this returned my faith much more than when I started. I have no doubt now.

Yes, I have researched all of this. I'm not saying I doubt the existence of Jesus, or his divinity. Indeed having encountered him some 2000+ years after his death, I would have to freely admit to both being true. My beef is with the Bible. It is simply not entirely accurate, and when I find a discrepancy between the book and the direct word of God, I'm going to trust God every time.

I'm beginning to think this is less commong than I once did but I talk to God every day. I used to think everyone did this but I'm finding that almost noone does. A direct connection with Source is much more powerful than the Bible. This causes a huge reaction of Fear in many religious folk which is why I usually just keep it to myself. You must understand the Faith that I have. I am a child of God; there is no doubt in my mind. That doesn't mean I have to rally behind the Bible. I have gotten some very strange replies to my original comment. I'm very curious to know the motivation behind them, especially that first one by Theophilus.

Don't get me wrong here. I study the Bible regularly, along with many other texts. I just don't believe it to hold the entire Truth. God created everything and his creation IS his Truth. To think that all of that could fit in a book is just silly.

[AngelBreeze]

Yes, I have considered this. The being I met was Christ. You can't fake that. I don't believe Jesus ever said that he was the only way to God. He knew too much to make such an obvious error. Certainly he never said anything like that to me. Which would you have me believe? The direct word of God, or the misremembered, mistranslated and purposefully altered text called the Bible? I have been taught to trust direct experience over the truth of others. This is what led me to God, and later to Christ. Should I discount that, then God would be false...Christ would be false.

I have had many messages from God himself and the two from Christ, his son. Does that make me a Christian? No, it does not. It makes me nothing but based on those messages I have chosen to be the servant of God. He has never required that I worship or in any way follow Christ. I am grateful for the beauty and Truth that has been shared with me by the Christ Consciousness, but part of that Truth is that wisdom carries no obligation to serve. He has given a great gift without requiring anything of me. That is Love and that is part of his message. If he required that I serve him then he would not be teaching Love.

Greetings athribiristan, While it is good that you feel you had an encounter with Christ, Theophilus certainly has a good point to make with the Scripture he presented. There are many false prophets and anti-Christ who will appear and make it so real that they are of goodness and mercy, etc., as the Holy Bible tells us, yet if they do not explain that Jesus is to be proclaimed as having come in the flesh, Scripture says they are deceivers (liars) and anti-Christ. We are told we must therefore, Test The Spirit.

"For many deceivers are entered into the world, who confess not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh. This is a deceiver and an anti-Christ." -- II JOHN 1:7 (KJV)
Therefore, you say this being did not say he was the only way. The true Christ would have unequivocally told you the following so that you would know beyond any reasonable doubt that He was the true and only Christ.

"Jesus saith unto him, I Am the Way, the Truth, and the Life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by Me." -- JOHN 14:6 (KJV)

With many blessings.

Blessed are they who pause to look at their fellow man through eyes of Love.
(\o/) AngelBreeze (\o/)

[Chrysaetos]

I think this was supposed to be a nice positive thread about the good it does.Matthew mark and luke are virtually the same except they are written to different audiences. Matthew is for Jewish cristians to understand. Mark is for greek christians. luke I cant remember. John is different again Me mentioning the fact that only few ancient sources (non-gospel) mention Jesus is neither positive nor negative, it is indifferent.

It is suggested that both 'Luke' and 'Matthew' were influenced by 'Mark'..
I know there are other non-Christian writings about Jesus, but these are minor and only mention rumours.

[Time]

ITs true, there is no actual evidence outside the bible stating "jesus christ". The only ones widley accepted are ancient historiants mentioning "kristos", or "christos", which ( cut and dry terms), is the greek rendition of "messiah", which is strictly a title at that time.....

Even if he existed or not, the message of the bible is simple:

Respect the fact your alive, respect eachother, respect all life. Thats pretty much it. Really , who cant agree with that message?

The only problem, is we take it SO literal, and yet still push our own interpretation on it. A religion or belief cant be harmful, or negative. It only is when WE make it such, because a religion is our construct. We dont have animals bowing before trees or fighting over what god is right because they have no concept of "god" or religion as we see it.

ITs our choice what we do with religion.

I love the togetherness that the bible talks about, and really, its written well. It has some interesting literary value as well and no matter how we look at it, its a part of our culture. The first book printed on the printing press was the bible. ITs steered western civilization on the course we are now ( although i dont agree with what weve turned it into now, there are still some very good people practicing monotheism but in my experience, most of the people that are "fundies" cant see the forest through the trees because of their beliefs, and these are the ones who decide to not teach evolution in schools, but creationism only ( in texas, look it up). Even my oldschool catholic grandma, who doesnt believe in evolution, actualy laughs at creationism.

The best things in monotheism ( combined judeism, christianity and catholic faiths) are learned when you look past the " i am the only way, anything else sends you to hell" bit, any literalism, understand the whole bible is a jewish book, written by jewish people from a jewish perspective on life, and that almost all of it was assimilated into itself, from almsot every major pagan tradition around it (all of europe, into india, and probably northern africa). You have to understand their culture, and way of life to fully understand the bible, as well as the other major players in its creation ( the whole of the council of nicea/constantinople, constantine all the way to king james, and the modern translations).

These are the "good things" that I have taken from the bible, put bluntly :D

We are seperate from nature. The story of adam and eve tells us this. ( edit- We CHOSE to seperate from nature, and look where it got us)

Nature can wipe us out in an instant, and has ( recorded in the bible, and some seem to coincide with natural events recorded in the geological record).

Respect eachother, which means everything on the planet. It all exists due to a mutual respect of eachother

There are astrological signs that seem to coincide with events on the planet ( or have)

The ancient civs had a taste for astrology. To learn about ourselves, we truely have to look to the "heavens" ( sky and the events of the universe)

Lead by example. Teach people to lead, and NOT to follow. Teach them to be teachers, so they may teach the same.

People do, indeed change

Humans have an extremely vivid imagination, and are creative creatures. We are here to create, NOT to destroy

Just because we can, doesnt mean we should.

There will always be an underlying chaos. There will never be perfection.

Theres things, that no matter how hard we try, and make ourselves to be "gods" , that we cant control. Deal with it

Life is beautiful, and full of suprises. It can be plentiful if we let it, abundant if we give it a helping hand, and wiped out in an instant ( nature, and us).

The jewish people, were rebels. They wouldve listened to rancid. They represent change, and did everything the way they wrent supposed to ( why else would other civs slander them). It shows that givin time, a small group of people can indeed change the world. ITs just up to us to choose what to do with it.

if we continue the way we do things, the world will basicaly destroy our civilization as we know it. History has shown this, from plants, to dinosaurs. We can do some great things for life on this planet, and its up to choose to sacrifice our greed, and hate and learn to come together and work for a common good, and forget all the differences, for the one thing that we have in common:

The planet

[Bluegreen]

Hear, hear. A really excellent post, Time. :icon_salut: :thumbsup:

[theophilus]

The being I met was Christ. You can't fake that.If you can't fake that then why did Jesus find it necessary to warn about false Christs?



I don't believe Jesus ever said that he was the only way to God.Jesus said to him, “I am the way, and the truth, and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me.
John 14:6 ESV



I have had many messages from God himself and the two from Christ, his son.Muhammed claimed to have received messages from God and he wrote them down in the Koran. Joseph Smith claimed to have had messages from both God and Christ, and the result was the Book of Mormon. There have been many lesser known people who have claimed to be obeying messages from God who have produced books and started religious organizations. Since these various messages contradict each other they can't possibly all be from God. This proves that a lot of those who thought they were hearing from God were deceived. How can you be sure the same thing isn't true of you?

[Scibat]

I have a lot of respect for Christianity, but I do wish that Christianity would have more respect for others.

You mean like on these forums where you almost never hear an unkind word from the people that profess to be Christians here, but who are constantly subjected to abusive posts being disrespectful to their religion?

LightworkerAU: Good thread, at least the intent was.

[athribiristan]

If you can't fake that then why did Jesus find it necessary to warn about false Christs?

My father was a false Christ, from a certain point of view. He was flesh and blood, a man and while he never claimed to be Christ, many people attributed that to him. This is certainly what Jesus warned about.

Jesus said to him, “I am the way, and the truth, and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me.
John 14:6 ESV

Yes, for the severalth time, I'm aware of this. This has been misunderstood. To be the son of God is indeed the way, but that has nothing to do with Jesus other than him showing us how.

Muhammed claimed to have received messages from God and he wrote them down in the Koran. Joseph Smith claimed to have had messages from both God and Christ, and the result was the Book of Mormon. There have been many lesser known people who have claimed to be obeying messages from God who have produced books and started religious organizations. Since these various messages contradict each other they can't possibly all be from God. This proves that a lot of those who thought they were hearing from God were deceived. How can you be sure the same thing isn't true of you?

Would you assume that God has the same message for everyone? All of those books you mentioned contain roughly the same knowledge anyway, if you discount cultural and personal bias. The real problem is that people don't understand the word of God save those who are ready to hear it. Matthew speaks to this (Matt 7:6). So even when someone does make that connection they are seldom believed or understood.

[Internal Queries]

You mean like on these forums where you almost never hear an unkind word from the people that profess to be Christians here, but who are constantly subjected to abusive posts being disrespectful to their religion?

LightworkerAU: Good thread, at least the intent was.


huh? you're kidding. right? have you ever read any of the posts by AngelBreeze and theophilus? they get away with some of the nastiest stuff that would get a hand slap from the mods if posted by anyOne of a nonChristian spiritual persuasion.

[Time]

Thanks bluegreen :D

[athribiristan]

huh? you're kidding. right? have you ever read any of the posts by AngelBreeze and theophilus? they get away with some of the nastiest stuff that would get a hand slap from the mods if posted by anyOne of a nonChristian spiritual persuasion.

Indeed. Some very disrespectful comments and behavior from that pair.

Though not so much from elsewhere I admit.

[Internal Queries]

Indeed. Some very disrespectful comments and behavior from that pair.

Though not so much from elsewhere I admit.


i admit so too.

[Miss Hepburn]

In fact I would like to call on Christians who think that other paths can be valid to step up and say so, to their brothers and sisters who continually preach otherwise!


Ok.
Imo, I am the biggest Christian I know, first.... LOL!
Sounds funny -but in speaking with so many Christians, unhappy, confused, depressed, anxious, fearful, scared, - I see my passion and
focus is on Jesus' instructions - I believe and follow daily most everything He said.
And the thing is--- it works!!!!!!!!!!

I see my brothers and sisters not applying a darn thing!
I mean - Jesus said - Do not worry - so--- do not worry.
See the ball, hit the ball.
Paul said - Be anxous for nothing ---so--- be anxious for nothing...
Focus on the things above and not the things on the earth - so...
Cast your cares...
By His stripes you were healed...
Delight in the Lord...ok pulling in OT, sorry
Be still....
keep your mind stayed on him and you'll be in perfect peace......

Either He is your Teacher, Lord, Master and you do what He said
or you simply do not; and that is what I see happening;
the lack of applying simple directions from the Greatest Teacher.

I have asked many depressed intellectual Christian friends to "Seek the Kingdom of Heaven first ----for one week ---contemplate this,
meditate on this, focus all your attention on this ONE instruction.
And get back to me on what you discovered." Not a one has.

Ok that discription (rant) of who I am is done.

I love Kishna, Buddha, Guru Nanak, Kabir...
If you are on another Path - fine with me - Jesus' statement that you can
only get to the Father through me is the most regrettful and misunderstood statement causing so many divisions ---- simply put - if
one believes that Jesus is/was the Word ---know that Word - that is the Way to the Father.
And the Father is the Goal - not Jesus.

And the Word was in the beginning before any matter manifested.
It always was and always will be - one must ask themselves what is that Word?
The "Word" that was before tongues existed.

Put that question to God within you.
And wait - be still.

Jew, Hindu, Sikh...no matter - it's the Word for all ...little obscure, jungle village boy, that never heard about Jesus - all the same.

Rambled quite a bit there.
:smile:

[Prokopton]

Rambled quite a bit there.

Well you rambled to the point. :) You delivered.

You showed it can be done. Why you say all that in vain to your fellow Christians I have no idea.

[gentledove]

I love Kishna, Buddha, Guru Nanak, Kabir...
If you are on another Path - fine with me - Jesus' statement that you can
only get to the Father through me is the most regrettful and misunderstood statement causing so many divisions ---- simply put - if
one believes that Jesus is/was the Word ---know that Word - that is the Way to the Father.
And the Father is the Goal - not Jesus.

Is the word love???

Yes, I think the statement that "you can only get to the Father through me" must be somehow drastically misunderstood.

However, perhaps Jesus isn't "the word", but rather the Light/Consciousness I experienced? The Light purifies (as I'm now well aware). :wink: Without that purification one can't be ONE with God/Love. If we have impure elements within us we can't vibrate at God speed, so to speak. It's not a judgment it's just a simple physical fact, imo. I don't think we have to believe in the method or be a Christian for it to work. I didn't even know about any of this (being purified by the Light and then realizing God's love) before it happened to me.

[athribiristan]

Indeed. Well said.

I believe those essential truths lie at the heart of every mystical teaching. Conincidence? I think not.

[gentledove]

Oh, Btw, the purification I experienced took place through being shown truth...so yeah, truth played a huge part. Just thought I'd add that.

[Scibat]

Thanks for trying to make a positive thread, LightWorkerAU.

[Lightspirit]

You mean like on these forums where you almost never hear an unkind word from the people that profess to be Christians here, but who are constantly subjected to abusive posts being disrespectful to their religion?

LightworkerAU: Good thread, at least the intent was. you cant win it always has to be the christians fault if you say anything back..you cant win!



The lash out negatives towards christianity( not in this thread but in other places) remind me of Teds observations of the world around him. And positive attitude lol. The guys in this thread have been good Ty


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DQS_bgZPHgQ&feature=player_detailpage

[Prokopton]

you cant win it always has to be the christians fault if you say anything back..you cant win!



The lash out negatives

Huh?

What would you consider a "lash-out negative" on this thread please? Norseman? Chrysateos who said he meant what he said neutrally?

You seem to be missing something. In trying to share something positive, athribiristan got prodded by the two more fundamentalist Christians, who instantly had to devalue his experience as fake to prop up their beliefs... not that he'd listen, but still: he was doing something in keeping with your idea of the thread. Those two did not post anything positive, and I would say they 'lashed out' far more than anyone anti.

I shall leave the Christian section for now I think.

[Miss Hepburn]

If we have impure elements within us we can't vibrate at God speed, so to speak. It's not a judgment it's just a simple physical fact, imo. I don't think we have to believe in the method or be a Christian for it to work. I didn't even know about any of this (being purified by the Light and then realizing God's love) before it happened to me.
Yes, well said.

:hug2:

[Lightspirit]

Huh?

What would you consider a "lash-out negative" on this thread please? Norseman? Chrysateos who said he meant what he said neutrally?

You seem to be missing something. In trying to share something positive, athribiristan got prodded by the two more fundamentalist Christians, who instantly had to devalue his experience as fake to prop up their beliefs... not that he'd listen, but still: he was doing something in keeping with your idea of the thread. Those two did not post anything positive, and I would say they 'lashed out' far more than anyone anti.

I shall leave the Christian section for now I think. not so much this thread but in general. i cop heaps of atheists sometimes they turn every subject into an opportunity to say something bad about christianity. must narrow my field of vision down to this thread. I guess in the last few weeks i have been really nice and had it heaped on me not in this forum. I think it is starting to show sorry guys. why I like this place is because it is so much nicer. Il change my other post so nobody thinks I meant them in this thread

[Miss Hepburn]

Why you say all that in vain to your fellow Christians I have no idea.
Ha!

Sometimes I will say - "Ok, I want you to not worry for 3 days...I'm not saying a week - just try 3 days having complete faith in your Father - rely on Him completely and relax and trust him ---3 days... watch and see what happens
because this is what Jesus said to do. Show God your trust in Him...ok, 2 days".

They never do that either. :D

[gentledove]

not so much this thread but in general. i cop heaps of atheists sometimes they turn every subject into an opportunity to say something bad about christianity. must narrow my field of vision down to this thread. I guess in the last few weeks i have been really nice and had it heaped on me not in this forum. I think it is starting to show sorry guys. why I like this place is because it is so much nicer.

Can I get an "Amen!" Or even an "Oh yeah!":wink:

[Asrais]

You mean like on these forums where you almost never hear an unkind word from the people that profess to be Christians here, but who are constantly subjected to abusive posts being disrespectful to their religion?

LightworkerAU: Good thread, at least the intent was.

From my experience, the (not all) Christians are the only one that try to force their beliefs on people, that is very disrespectful. I dislike being told I am going to Hell.

Even here, someone trying to share a sacred experience with Christ, being told that it couldn't have been him, must have been the Antichrist - who are you to tell someone what they did or didn't experience - that is for them to decide!

I agree, that I tend to be a little hard on the Christians - but I only join in when I see extremist comments.

Lightworker - I'm sorry your thread turned into another argument, I know it was meant to be about the good side of Christianity, but the same old defensiveness (on both sides) reared its ugly head. Too often lately I am finding myself baited into these arguments.

[Lightspirit]

From my experience, the (not all) Christians are the only one that try to force their beliefs on people, that is very disrespectful. I dislike being told I am going to Hell.

Even here, someone trying to share a sacred experience with Christ, being told that it couldn't have been him, must have been the Antichrist - who are you to tell someone what they did or didn't experience - that is for them to decide!

I agree, that I tend to be a little hard on the Christians - but I only join in when I see extremist comments.

Lightworker - I'm sorry your thread turned into another argument, I know it was meant to be about the good side of Christianity, but the same old defensiveness (on both sides) reared its ugly head. Too often lately I am finding myself baited into these arguments. I see what your talking about I see it both ways but I guess its human nature to fight for what you believe in. I have just been talking to someone here in my house about this and how as christians we must accept others belifs and not tel; them everything they have experienced in life is all **** if it does not match up to our experiences. How is anyone ever gonna like us or want to be like us if they cant warm to us. These forums have taught me heaps.

[Asrais]

How is anyone ever gonna like us or want to be like us if they cant warm to us.

I think this is the heart of the issue. When I see the positive side of the Christian Church, such as the work in the community and even the teachings of Jesus, I start to warm to it - the philosophy of the Church is pretty close to my own beliefs. The problem comes with the few, who aggressively defend with "I'm right, you're wrong and you're going to Hell" which create the problem for me. I, like most people, am curious, I like to question the things I believe in (and I love a good debate) but if I am told I must believe, just because I must, I rebel. God made us curious, so we would ponder the meanings of life, the universe and everything else, so we could explore everything - I think if God had meant us to live by one book alone, he wouldn't have given us the ablility to think outside the box.

I definately the spirit of this thread, or that which it was supposed to be, should have been a step in the right direction, it's a shame it got derailed. :hug2:

[athribiristan]

I think this was supposed to be a nice positive thread about the good it does.




Ah yes, but so often the best ideas take on a life of their own.

[tragblack]

Sometimes I will say - "Ok, I want you to not worry for 3 days...I'm not saying a week - just try 3 days having complete faith in your Father - rely on Him completely and relax and trust him ---3 days... watch and see what happens
because this is what Jesus said to do. Show God your trust in Him...ok, 2 days".

They never do that either. :D

I'll take you up on the challenge.

[Miss Hepburn]

I'll take you up on the challenge.
You will thank me for the push -after all He is a Master, a Guru - He wanted us to"make it" here - know how to "do" things, how to work things --- walk on water, heal the sick, be so in touch with Reality we could be in control of all our atoms in a dead body....He wanted us to be in control of the Matrix.

How could we if we can't even follow a couple simple, little, ole instructions ----that build us up - build our faith and renew our minds, eh?

Congratulations. This is what a devotee does...applies his teacher's direction.
:wink: Miss Hepburn

xxoo

[Miss Hepburn]

My opinion:

When we have an inner contentment - being close to the Divine Presence - we know...we know that all is well - all is well with the atheist, the Christian, the Jew, the Sikh, the orphan, the lost kitty -all is well.
It's perfect and we are actors on a stage.
The pure awareness of the One Observer is experiencing it all...as it was meant to play out.

It is not our place to judge, worry, fear, be jealous - we are to give our burdens to the Almighty...there is no need to argue or debate - because we know -all in good time - all will be known and revealed to each of us.

When someone pushes their point it comes from Ego...not from the confidence of peace that a connection with the Creator gives.

So what do we do - reflect the Gift of Patience and Love that we have been given.

There is no need to get triggered by Ego. (Not their ego or your ego - just Ego that is in all of us)

It's a trick, we can't fall for it ---continue in love and peace and kindness.
Always.

Count to ten sometimes before reacting - be confident in the Truth.
Ask yourself why do you care that the other person is being snarky - they are revealing their lack of connection to heart, which is all that we truly are.

:smile: That felt good to say...it just flowed out, you know?

[athribiristan]

Rambled....please.:rolleyes:

That was beautiful. Way to represent Miss H.:hug:

[Miss Hepburn]

This was in my newsletter today and, boy, do I know this to be true:

"As long as you can live with less than God's best, you will.
You have to have a holy dissatisfaction with mediocrity before you can experience all that God has for you.
It doesn't happen accidentally or automatically.
If you don't pursue it, you won't get it. "
Andrew Wommack
www.awmi.net (http://www.awmi.net)

John Randolph Price said the same thing on a tape I'm listening to.
Love that synchronicity.

[Lightspirit]

It is not our place to judge, worry, fear, be jealous - we are to give our burdens to the Almighty...there is no need to argue or debate

There is no need to get triggered by Ego. (Not their ego or your ego - just Ego that is in all of us)

It's a trick, we can't fall for it ---continue in love and peace and kindness.
Always. Yay!!

Thank you you are being a really good example of it, keep it up and bless ya!

[Scibat]

not so much this thread but in general. i cop heaps of atheists sometimes they turn every subject into an opportunity to say something bad about christianity. must narrow my field of vision down to this thread. I guess in the last few weeks i have been really nice and had it heaped on me not in this forum. I think it is starting to show sorry guys. why I like this place is because it is so much nicer. Il change my other post so nobody thinks I meant them in this thread
That's exactly what bugs me here as well, and its not just atheists -- It seems to be more common among ex-Christians who for whatever reason have jumped onto the bandwagon for attacking Christianity.

I have seen it a bunch of times on these forums, and whenever I object, or dare I (gasp) cite the rules about being respectful of others beliefs. I get shouted down, or my objections get ignored or someone plays with semantics to claim innocence. I'm not even a Christian, I just think it's wrong, and choose to say so.

Frankly all the so called spiritual types that engage in this behavior pretty much turn me off on their philosophy or belief system in much the same way they seem to be averse to Christianity. Showing intolerance to Christianity does not make a particular path look very savory to me, and seems to be exactly the same kind of intolerance many of those that attack Christianity claim that Christians do (PS: Boys and girls, that's called hypocrisy). I thought (apparently wrongly) that this forum was about sharing ideas while showing tolerance and respect to each other, but it seems tolerance and respect here are very selective practices for some. :rolleyes:

[Bluegreen]

You have to have a holy dissatisfaction with mediocrity before you can experience all that God has for you.


Walter Russell: “Mediocrity is self-inflicted and genius is self-bestowed.”

Walter Russell, polymath, quite an interesting person.

Moment-by-moment companionship with God brings with it so great a realization of Oneness with Him that the transformation into that full realization of unity is apt to take place at any time.
The deterrent to cosmic consciousness is the feeling that God is far away instead of being within, and that we can reach that far away God only through sources outside of ourselves.

http://www.walter-russell.org/en/Themen.php

[Time]

I stand by my OP ( which seems to have gotten ignored except by bluegreen):

Its not christianitys fault, its our fault. We make christianity and everything what it is, no one else.

The thing is, lots of things we learn in church are wrong. Thats where the problem starts. People misinterpertet the words in the bible, and use them in todays context. You cant do that because the examples used in the bile are over 5000 years old, an d are from a totaly different time and place. Even then, most people have found that they still didnt take it literaly back then.

Some things ive learned about the bible, that turned out to be wrong:

Satan made eve eat the apple ( there is NO flat out biblical line in the OT comparing satan to the devil to a serpent, this is done WAY WAY after the fact, and is assumed in the NT, and is still assumed today)

Satan is lucifer is the devil (once again, only, ONE line stating this. While there are a few stating satan to the devil, this is done only a few times, by one group of scribes, not throughout the book ( ot), only in the NT is this made a bit more prevalent.)

God is the only god, jesus was his son -

This is the big one. The jews belived there to be one god, because after the OT was written, the babylonians let the jews go back to isreal. They thought that their belief in one god saved them. Yet there are still atrocities done to the jewish people, and accross the entire planet ( which is supposidly, majorily monotheistic), even with believing in one god. Most of the happiest countries, and most peaceful arent bound to a religion, yet the country which literaly sweats and breaths christianity, started almost all the major wars in the last century.....

God also says jesus was his only son, yet god created us in its image, so we are also its children. God is an aligory for the universe, and jesus is an aligory of the sun.

Christianity, is well known to have assimilated almsot every major pagan belief, into the original jewish worship ( which was the same assimilating done). How can we say this is the one true belief, when we know its made up of others, yet still claims to be the only one true way?

Satan is evil -

Most of the passages ( especially int he NT), are showing satan to be gods helper in testing people. He is the tempter, to see if people are loosing their faith in god. That is it, that is all. Somehow, he got associated with the devil. The only thing in the entire bible, that is consistantly evil, is the devil, not satan the devil, or satan-lucifer-devil...

Satan is lucifer, is the devil -

No..... this is the one that really woke me up. There is no, i repeat NO connection between lucifer and satan. This is something that has been interpreted wrong, and spread, falsley. Ive gon through and back again, and cant find any correlation between these 3 ( or more) characters other then the one line in revelations, which still doesnt liken lucifer to the devil.

Moses -

Yup, pretty much his whole story ( especially the birth), is taken outright from the "king of sargon" in babylonia, from the basket, to being picked up by royalty, to being the law giver......

AStrological allagories -

Lucifer ( in reference to a babylinian king), is called " the day star" or "morning star", which always refers to venus.

Mary the virgin - Virgo the virgin, the constelation. Shes depicted as a virgin, holding a sheath of wheat and is in the sky in august ( harvest season). This means more, when you realize that bethlehem literaly translates to house of bread = Mary the virgin, gave birth in bethlahem

"The 3 wise men followed the star in the east..."

The 3 wisemen, or 3 kings are thought to have been from palestine, and it wouldve taken them months to make it to bethlehem. The 3 kings, are also known to be an old name for the 3 stars in orions belt, which at the time of the winter solstices, aligns with sirius ( the brightest star int he night sky), which points to where the sun will finally rise to the north..... on christmas morning...

This makes more sence when you realize what happens during the solctice to christmas:

At the solstice, the sun literaly doenst seem to rise much at all, but stay in the same spot. Thsi was refered to as the " death of the sun". 3 days later, (christmas morning), the sun finally raises one degree, to the north ( instead of south), which signified " the birth of the son"..

This ties in to jesus death, because when the son "dies", it resided in the southern hemesphere, and resides in the sky, right on the "crux" constellation, or cross.

This part wasnt celebrated till easter, because its when the days finally are longer thent he night.

There are many, many more things that dont add up. ITs just what we as humans have done to it. We can pass blame all we want but it wont stop the problem of what we are doing to christianity.

[Prokopton]

Can I get an "Amen!" Or even an "Oh yeah!"

I'll give you a vague grin. :)

Fact is that as arthribiristan said:

So often the best ideas take on a life of their own.

... and they do it for a reason.

I start to feel there's a reason you can't get a nice, easy, ain't-Christianity-lovely thread, and that's because there's healing to be done. For a long time there has been bad blood between Christianity and other "faiths". It might be an elephant in the virtual room. One mustn't forget they threw Christians to the lions... but then Christians did get their own back.

Maybe what's needed is more in the style of the South African truth and reconciliation commission. I've been to interfaith meetings and observed who behaves how... and how difficult stuff is dodged on all sides. I no longer interest myself in that.

It's just like the IRA peace talks... there will always be some who refuse to put the guns down and form their own fundamentalist splinter group. But the rest of us can, perhaps, see a cultural peace develop, to match whatever internal peace we achieve, if we are at the same time measured and polite, but honest, about the clash of faiths still taking place.

The new militant atheism of Dawkins et al. is no less fundamentalist than the most foolish of the misguided Christian fundamentalism. In fact it replaces it, because both belief systems built on dismissing all other truths and claiming exclusive title to 'the one and only truth'. (I've written about that before (http://lightningoak.wordpress.com/2011/03/27/dismissivism-exclusivism/) -- once you've dismissed 99% of gods, dismissing the last one is not too hard.) Underneath, on the psychological level, there are a few things festering, because simply declaring things non-existent doesn't make them disappear.

The interesting thing for me is simply that I have no attraction to Christianity at all. I've read it all, researched it, found some aspects of it to admire, even translated some NT from Greek. It does nothing for me. As a result I've tended not to notice aspects of it that are around now... I think I've led a bit of a sheltered life in that respect.

[Lightspirit]

@ Time
Time your previous post it probably got ignored because this thread is about positive ways Christianity is manifesting themselves in christians. a big post about whats wrong with christianity and why you dont like it is really out of place in this thread.

I really asked Christians like myself to comment on their christianity for all to see. This is why arguments begin in threads and people begin to fight with each other. We dont want that.

[Time]

See, now that just shows you didnt even look at it...... because half of it is actualy what ive learned from christianity ( well i was raised catholic, same difference really lol ). And I cant talk about something only in the good, without explaining myself in the matter, because this situation, is all but smiles and sunshine right?

And it also proves my point as well, it it doesnt mention " gods will, or gods love", chirstians automaticaly disregard it as false or heresey. REad it again, becasue im pretty sure, 90% of that post, has nothing to do with why i think christianity is wrong....


"Ts true, there is no actual evidence outside the bible stating "jesus christ". The only ones widley accepted are ancient historiants mentioning "kristos", or "christos", which ( cut and dry terms), is the greek rendition of "messiah", which is strictly a title at that time.....

Even if he existed or not, the message of the bible is simple:

Respect the fact your alive, respect eachother, respect all life. Thats pretty much it. Really , who cant agree with that message?

The only problem, is we take it SO literal, and yet still push our own interpretation on it. A religion or belief cant be harmful, or negative. It only is when WE make it such, because a religion is our construct. We dont have animals bowing before trees or fighting over what god is right because they have no concept of "god" or religion as we see it.

ITs our choice what we do with religion.

I love the togetherness that the bible talks about, and really, its written well. It has some interesting literary value as well and no matter how we look at it, its a part of our culture. The first book printed on the printing press was the bible. ITs steered western civilization on the course we are now ( although i dont agree with what weve turned it into now, there are still some very good people practicing monotheism but in my experience, most of the people that are "fundies" cant see the forest through the trees because of their beliefs, and these are the ones who decide to not teach evolution in schools, but creationism only ( in texas, look it up). Even my oldschool catholic grandma, who doesnt believe in evolution, actualy laughs at creationism.

The best things in monotheism ( combined judeism, christianity and catholic faiths) are learned when you look past the " i am the only way, anything else sends you to hell" bit, any literalism, understand the whole bible is a jewish book, written by jewish people from a jewish perspective on life, and that almost all of it was assimilated into itself, from almsot every major pagan tradition around it (all of europe, into india, and probably northern africa). You have to understand their culture, and way of life to fully understand the bible, as well as the other major players in its creation ( the whole of the council of nicea/constantinople, constantine all the way to king james, and the modern translations).

These are the "good things" that I have taken from the bible, put bluntly

We are seperate from nature. The story of adam and eve tells us this. ( edit- We CHOSE to seperate from nature, and look where it got us)

Nature can wipe us out in an instant, and has ( recorded in the bible, and some seem to coincide with natural events recorded in the geological record).

Respect eachother, which means everything on the planet. It all exists due to a mutual respect of eachother

There are astrological signs that seem to coincide with events on the planet ( or have)

The ancient civs had a taste for astrology. To learn about ourselves, we truely have to look to the "heavens" ( sky and the events of the universe)

Lead by example. Teach people to lead, and NOT to follow. Teach them to be teachers, so they may teach the same.

People do, indeed change

Humans have an extremely vivid imagination, and are creative creatures. We are here to create, NOT to destroy

Just because we can, doesnt mean we should.

There will always be an underlying chaos. There will never be perfection.

Theres things, that no matter how hard we try, and make ourselves to be "gods" , that we cant control. Deal with it

Life is beautiful, and full of suprises. It can be plentiful if we let it, abundant if we give it a helping hand, and wiped out in an instant ( nature, and us).

The jewish people, were rebels. They wouldve listened to rancid. They represent change, and did everything the way they wrent supposed to ( why else would other civs slander them). It shows that givin time, a small group of people can indeed change the world. ITs just up to us to choose what to do with it.

if we continue the way we do things, the world will basicaly destroy our civilization as we know it. History has shown this, from plants, to dinosaurs. We can do some great things for life on this planet, and its up to choose to sacrifice our greed, and hate and learn to come together and work for a common good, and forget all the differences, for the one thing that we have in common:

The planet"


How is any of that negative towards chiristianity?

[norseman]

Time, it is amazing that many of the world's woes originate in a small piece of desert scrubland in the Middle-East. Maybe not so surprising as that same barren bit of worthless land was the origin of Judaism, Islam, and Christianity - QED ! Good post btw, Mr T.

[norseman]

p.s. @lightworker. If you read the anti-posts, instead of just reacting to them, you will find that much [ or all in my case !] of the vitriol is reserved for christianity, not for Christ. Fundamental christians, fundamental muslims - all the same in my book !

[Miss Hepburn]

Is the word love???

I'm going to send some information about the Word.
I didn't want to hijack the thread with off topic stuff.
Wasn't ignorng you, gentledove.
Maybe I'll also tell you why the Holy Spirit is represented by a dove - rather than any other creature.
:wink:
xxoo

[Miss Hepburn]

Quote:
Moment-by-moment companionship with God brings with it so great a realization of Oneness with Him that the transformation into that full realization of unity is apt to take place at any time.
The deterrent to cosmic consciousness is the feeling that God is far away instead of being within, and that we can reach that far away God only through sources outside of ourselves.

Whoa, I'm printing that out - I will laminate this and make it into a bookmark!!!

:hug:
Thank you, Bluegreen

[Time]

thanks norseman. I agree as well ( although its a bit general, but the point is made, and IMO mostly correct), but it proves my point as well:

"he jewish people, were rebels. They wouldve listened to rancid. They represent change, and did everything the way they wrent supposed to ( why else would other civs slander them). It shows that givin time, a small group of people can indeed change the world. ITs just up to us to choose what to do with it."

MH - Bluegreen is especialy "on" today, that quote speaks so much more then it says..... thanks again BG ( and hepburn for pointing it out!)

[Miss Hepburn]

Time, I was not aware about the differences between Lucifer, satan and the devil - thanks.
(I opened the Bible Jan 2006 - lots to learn.)
:wink:

[Time]

It takes some real reading to find it out, especialy since we are brought up listining to "satan/lucifer is the devil". It also seems that there are 2 or 3 "satan" in the bible as well, the same with god, there seems to be 3 or 4 different attitude with god throughout the bible ( kinda shuts down the "unvarying" nature of god :S)

[norseman]

Lucifer was also associated with Cernunnos, the Horned God - the earliest representation of a god found in ancient cave paintings. Cernunnos widely known in the Celtic lands under a variety of names [ Herne, Kern, etc] Also known as Lord of the Animals and the masculine force of Nature. He is a sacrificial god who leads the Great Hunt and, in fact, becomes the sacrifice.
DOES THAT SEEM FAMILIAR ?
The associated riddle is :
"What is it that the hunter hunts ?" Response - "He hunts himself !"

[athribiristan]

From my experience, the (not all) Christians are the only one that try to force their beliefs on people, that is very disrespectful. I dislike being told I am going to Hell.

I disagree. Everyone tries to push their opinion to one degree or another. Some people are more subtle, and some are more overt. Different people show different levels of respect while doing so but most all of us are here to support some belief system or another.

Even here, someone trying to share a sacred experience with Christ, being told that it couldn't have been him, must have been the Antichrist - who are you to tell someone what they did or didn't experience - that is for them to decide!

Unfortunate, but I am a grown up. People who choose this route with me might just begin to see things in a new light, as I am more than able to back up my beliefs. Many people who have set out to convert me have wound up changing their views.

I agree, that I tend to be a little hard on the Christians - but I only join in when I see extremist comments.

I find that the best thing is just to completely ignore them. I only responded here because they addressed me directly, and with great ignorance. I don't care if people believe me but I like to make sure they understand what I'm saying before they make that decision.

Lightworker - I'm sorry your thread turned into another argument, I know it was meant to be about the good side of Christianity, but the same old defensiveness (on both sides) reared its ugly head. Too often lately I am finding myself baited into these arguments.

That's certainly easy enough to do. No worries right. Take what helps you and ignore the rest.

[Prokopton]

Different people show different levels of respect while doing so but most all of us are here to support some belief system or another.

To support is different from to push and to force, which is what Asrais said. The former may well imply that we think our beliefs are pretty cool! But the latter implies that everyone else's are muck. So we can never listen to them. That's rather different from mere "support".

[Time]

"ucifer was also associated with Cernunnos, the Horned God - the earliest representation of a god found in ancient cave paintings. Cernunnos widely known in the Celtic lands under a variety of names [ Herne, Kern, etc] Also known as Lord of the Animals and the masculine force of Nature. He is a sacrificial god who leads the Great Hunt and, in fact, becomes the sacrifice.
DOES THAT SEEM FAMILIAR ?
The associated riddle is :
"What is it that the hunter hunts ?" Response - "He hunts himself !""


Not to mention the word " hell" is anything but middle eastern, or even greek... its a germanic word (more specificaly CELT)....

It was just a smear campain on bezzlebub/baal ( who in the NT gets associated with the devil), hornes, goats, the pentagram... all associated with baal. Baal, was really the "one true god" of pagans at that time ( not literaly, just said it to make it associate better with christianity), traditions varied, and so did worship, but the thing that remained was that around the middle east, Baal, was the principle pagan god of worship.

What better way to eleminate or deface a pagan god, by painting him as the devil?


************** just to clarify, the OP may state this isnt in spirit with the thread, but it is. The bible talks about learing truth, and that is exactly what im trying to do. Just because it sint in line with "christianity" doesnt mean im right ( or that your wrong to be fair)....

eevrything I say here, is the christianity I experience.....

[theophilus]

huh? you're kidding. right? have you ever read any of the posts by AngelBreeze and theophilus? they get away with some of the nastiest stuff that would get a hand slap from the mods if posted by anyOne of a nonChristian spiritual persuasion.All we are doing is pointing out what God has revealed in the Bible. Do you think we should just stand by and let you follow false paths without even warning you of the danger you are in?

[Bluegreen]

All we are doing is pointing out what God has revealed in the Bible. Do you think we should just stand by and let you follow false paths without even warning you of the danger you are in?

Again: fear, fear, fear.
There are no false paths. All paths, even detours, ultimately lead back to the Source or God.

[Internal Queries]

All we are doing is pointing out what God has revealed in the Bible. Do you think we should just stand by and let you follow false paths without even warning you of the danger you are in?


well theo, no doubt every nonChristian on this particular message board has already been informed of their impending damnation and has decided their personal intellectual and spiritual integrity is worth the risk. wouldn't you be serving your god better if you took your sacred service to those poor unsaved heathens who haven't already had hell threats crammed down their throats ad nauseum? maybe you could do missionary work in some deep Amazonian jungle. i read that there are a few indigenous tribes left who haven't yet heard the "good news" that if they don't abandon their gods and their cultures to become Christians they'll end up writhing in eternal teeth gnashing agony after their bodies die.

i know! if you hook up with a logging company no doubt you can help those unsaved heathens realize how truly poverty ridden they are living free and independent in their forests and how much they need Jesus, McDonalds and Ipods.

[Scibat]

"ucifer was also associated with Cernunnos, the Horned God - the earliest representation of a god found in ancient cave paintings. Cernunnos widely known in the Celtic lands under a variety of names [ Herne, Kern, etc] Also known as Lord of the Animals and the masculine force of Nature. He is a sacrificial god who leads the Great Hunt and, in fact, becomes the sacrifice.
DOES THAT SEEM FAMILIAR ?
The associated riddle is :
"What is it that the hunter hunts ?" Response - "He hunts himself !""


Not to mention the word " hell" is anything but middle eastern, or even greek... its a germanic word (more specificaly CELT)....

It was just a smear campain on bezzlebub/baal ( who in the NT gets associated with the devil), hornes, goats, the pentagram... all associated with baal. Baal, was really the "one true god" of pagans at that time ( not literaly, just said it to make it associate better with christianity), traditions varied, and so did worship, but the thing that remained was that around the middle east, Baal, was the principle pagan god of worship.

What better way to eleminate or deface a pagan god, by painting him as the devil?


************** just to clarify, the OP may state this isnt in spirit with the thread, but it is. The bible talks about learing truth, and that is exactly what im trying to do. Just because it sint in line with "christianity" doesnt mean im right ( or that your wrong to be fair)....

eevrything I say here, is the christianity I experience.....

Of course you knew what the spirit and intent of the OPs post was, but you chose to turn it into another anti-Christian rant when you could have been nice and let them have their thread. Now you are twisting the intent of the thread and using semantics to justify your ends.

Way to go. :rolleyes:

[supernova]

In fact the point is why should we run after Christianity and Hinduism or Buddhism. Let us read the beauty of the Bible and its great philosophy. The Bible can teach wonderful things so do the Vedas and the Koran. Let us read them and do not instigate divisive forces.

[Bluegreen]

Although I am not a Christian in the sense that I read the Bible (except for Genesis and the Gospel by St. John) or go to church, I do try to live according to the law expressed by Jesus (and many other beliefs).

To me this means that I must love all of creation and that I must always act out of love.

[Internal Queries]

Although I am not a Christian in the sense that I read the Bible (except for Genesis and the Gospel by St. John) or go to church, I do try to live according to the law expressed by Jesus (and many other beliefs).

To me this means that I must love all of creation and that I must always act out of love.


righto. i love Jesus' Love Laws. simple, concise and no room for misinterpretation.

[Time]

Scibat - Noo.... not even close.

Would you rather me be someone who makes blatent call outs to people like some of this thread?

The spirit of this thread, was to show the christianity that I experience. I didnt in anyway, shape or form, disrespect anyone, or twist the thread in any way. i stated what i have learned from christianity. Im sorry if it didnt have any of the fear mongering that chistians are used to ( see that is doing what your claiming im doing), and im sorry if i choose to use a little bit of logic in regards to spirituality.

I never said ANYTHING anti christian in this thread at all. In fact I actually agreed with it more ( i dont ususaly do that.... musta had a good sleep LOL ), did i mention how christians choose what rules to follow? no.... Did i mention how christianity has been twisted over the years in the form of political control? no...... did i ever mention how the church uses fear to controll the masses? no........ How about the pedophilia, and illegal actions? no...

And why not? Because im actualy trying to not make this into one of those" beat and greet" christian threads ( which it does seem you have done quite well)

Show me in this thread, where I have been disrespectful, and harmful to anything christian, it might take a while, because you wont find it ( aside from me making my point in this post)..

Just because my learnings from the bible/monotheism are different then the preconcieved notions of it, doesnt mean im wrong, anymore then you are right ( and vise versa of course :D )

[Scibat]

Scibat - Noo.... not even close.

Would you rather me be someone who makes blatent call outs to people like some of this thread?

The spirit of this thread, was to show the christianity that I experience. I didnt in anyway, shape or form, disrespect anyone, or twist the thread in any way. i stated what i have learned from christianity. Im sorry if it didnt have any of the fear mongering that chistians are used to ( see that is doing what your claiming im doing), and im sorry if i choose to use a little bit of logic in regards to spirituality.

I never said ANYTHING anti christian in this thread at all. In fact I actually agreed with it more ( i dont ususaly do that.... musta had a good sleep LOL ), did i mention how christians choose what rules to follow? no.... Did i mention how christianity has been twisted over the years in the form of political control? no...... did i ever mention how the church uses fear to controll the masses? no........ How about the pedophilia, and illegal actions? no...

And why not? Because im actualy trying to not make this into one of those" beat and greet" christian threads ( which it does seem you have done quite well)

Show me in this thread, where I have been disrespectful, and harmful to anything christian, it might take a while, because you wont find it ( aside from me making my point in this post)..

Just because my learnings from the bible/monotheism are different then the preconcieved notions of it, doesnt mean im wrong, anymore then you are right ( and vise versa of course :D )
Really? My complaint has nothing to do with the validity of your points (or lack thereof) more that you chose to derail the OPs thread with them.

Write the positives of your christianity experiences for all to see through the eyes of a Christian.
That is what the OP requested the topic of the thread be about. You either didn't read or deliberately ignored this request and chose instead to do your own thing, so right off the bat you are being disrespectful to the OP.

You can use what ever word games and semantics you wish to justify your actions, but patently your intent here wasn't what the OP asked for. She wanted a positive thread, you decided to make it your private soapbox.

You could have left it alone and let Lightworker have the thread she wanted, you chose not to do this, in my book, that's quite disrespectful.

[Time]

"more than you chose to derail the OPs thread with them."

First, if he ( or she) has a problem, they can deal with it themselves.. which they were doing just fine

secondly, I said time and time again im not tryting to do anything, i stated what positives i got from christianity, which i did, what point is there for me.. to state my reasons, without the reasoning behind it?

Third - no one ont he thread, not even then OP, had a major problem with what i posted, so I think the prblem is YOURS ( me and the OP werent even arguing, they were respectful to me, and i was respectful to them.) I think u just disagree with what I say..

Fourth - I wont even be paying attention to you in this thread after ( im not going to be childish and block you), the second u jumped in, you created exactly, which you are accusing me of doing. You are beig disrespectful to MY beliefs, which I never, ever have done to yours. I defended myself, and thats all im going to say about it.

[norseman]

" Let us read the beauty of the Bible and its great philosophy." Sadly, Supernova, that lies at the heart of the difficulty. The bible is just another book, written by man, then twisted to fit into the dogma of an organisation. Think of it as like advertising for McDonalds. Bible is not worth the paper it's printed on EXCEPT for Christ's philosophy but, sadly once again, that has been twisted into bigotry and prejudice.
I have an image of Jesus and Mohamed sharing a cup of coffee and saying to each other "How could they get it so wrong?"

[Iku-Turso]

I have to agree with Norseman. It was not long ago that I came across an article in The Blaze about a new version of the Bible being printed due to how animals were addressed in the Bible. There were some other things too - gender was one if I recall right.

It's just constantly being rewritten - it would be nice to know what the 'True' Bible was like and to have a Concordant to help out if need be.

[Time]

The bible can teach lots of good. Theres some great things created because of it in general (which i didnt mention, because there sort of a given)

cistene chapel (the painting namely)

every single gothic cathedral ever made ( these things are true buidlings of "god". The focus of the town, grand structures, so simple, yet so intricate and complex, its amazing that human made it. A great way to celebrate life. They are also rich with other traditions symbology, a true combination of all teachings...)

Art in general ( from statues, to iconoc paintings and sculptures, the bible is amungst our most famous paintings. Leonardo devinci, salvadore dahli, michalangelo, to midievel and original gnostic art.... it just goes on

Music (some of the most hypnotic, and humbling music is sung in church (namley, christmas), beautiful expressions of their undying love for god (real or not, their pure emotion and love is truley inspiring, and the real reason we practice music, expression))

It can make people do good things ( it goes both ways of course, but its always inspired some to do some amazing good. Look at mother tharesa, we can all learn alot from that woman. Even mary magdeline ( if you believe the reformed prostitute thing)

[Internal Queries]

yeah, i love Bizantine and Renaisance art. however, it's hard to forget that many of the lovely old cathredrals were built on sites sacred to the indigenous tribes who lives and cultures were descimated by the Christian/Roman onslaught.

[norseman]

I.Q. I was just going to mention that. :D
I do a meditation most weeks in a 900 year-old cathedral. Always sit in the same seat because I know that there is a pagan holy site under my feet. Due to peculiarities of geography, the area has been in use since the Bronze Age as a fortified place.
[not been struck by lightning yet :smile:]

[Miss Hepburn]

"How could they get it so wrong?"

Reading James E. Padgett readings -that's exactly what Jesus and the crew are saying...Constantine, Paul, John - all of 'em.
:wink:

[athribiristan]

All we are doing is pointing out what God has revealed in the Bible. Do you think we should just stand by and let you follow false paths without even warning you of the danger you are in?

And all we are doing is pointing out that if you behave like a child you will be treated as one.

[athribiristan]

In fact the point is why should we run after Christianity and Hinduism or Buddhism. Let us read the beauty of the Bible and its great philosophy. The Bible can teach wonderful things so do the Vedas and the Koran. Let us read them and do not instigate divisive forces.

Indeed. The Bible has provided many fruits in my spiritual journey, but so has Dr. Suess.

With all of creation through which to experience God,
why limit oneself to a single source.
Let us drink of the entirety of creation,
And never instigate a divisive force.:wink:

[athribiristan]

To support is different from to push and to force, which is what Asrais said. The former may well imply that we think our beliefs are pretty cool! But the latter implies that everyone else's are muck. So we can never listen to them. That's rather different from mere "support".

Well I have to agree with you there, some people can be rather childish that way.

[athribiristan]

Can I get an "Amen!" Or even an "Oh yeah!":wink:
Amen!! Overall a much nicer place than any I have seen.

[nightowl]

Indeed. The Bible has provided many fruits in my spiritual journey, but so has Dr. Suess.

With all of creation through which to experience God,
why limit oneself to a single source.
Let us drink of the entirety of creation,
And never instigate a divisive force.:wink:

Bravo Bravo, athribiristan, nice! And as for Dr Suess, brilliant man; Green Eggs and Ham will live in my memory forever...:hug3:

nightowl

[athribiristan]

Bravo Bravo, athribiristan, nice! And as for Dr Suess, brilliant man; Green Eggs and Ham will live in my memory forever...:hug3:

nightowl

Thanks.

The Sneeches
The Lorax
The Gax

His wisdom truly knew no bounds.

[Miss Hepburn]

athribiristan.



*

:occasion14:

[gentledove]

Thanks.

The Sneeches
The Lorax
The Gax

His wisdom truly knew no bounds.


I love Dr Suess too! :hug3: His wisdom is so powerfully gentle.

[Triner]

To me this means that I must love all of creation and that I must always act out of love.

Simple. Beautiful. Pointed.


It's like you've actually read the Bible and listened to what Jesus said. Instead of finding fear, vengefulness, righteousness, you found Love! :hug3:

[Bluegreen]

It's like you've actually read the Bible and listened to what Jesus said. Instead of finding fear, vengefulness, righteousness, you found Love!

Actually, when I was young, I attended a school with the Bible which meant listening to Bible stories and having to learn by heart a psalm or hymn to recite every Monday. I never liked the OT but loved the stories about Jesus. Listening to the Messiah by Händel can move me to tears.

As to love. Joan Grant was a psychic and author of a number of books. In Many Lifetimes she tells how she was at someone's house where one of the rooms was icy cold although the central heating was turned up high. She then saw a coffin in the room.

Joan: "The cold in this room is the cold of death. He did not believe in any form of immortality...that is why he is still here."

Patrick: "Why didn't someone come to explain to him that he was dead?" said Patrick. "It seems a bit rough on the poor chap."
"
Joan: "They tried, but he wouldn't listen. He didn't love anyone, not even himself. That's why he is alone. If he had loved anyone, even for a brief period, the love would have been a lifeline which would have saved him from this icy backwater. Oh, if only people would realise how dangerous it is not to love..."BTW, I love your signature. It's great.

[Lightspirit]

show you something guys, christianity.its not hard. Its so simple I dunno how it gets so convoluted whats below is really easy to understand.
Matthew

he Beatitudes
He said:

3 “Blessed are the poor in spirit,
for theirs is the kingdom of heaven.
4 Blessed are those who mourn,
for they will be comforted.
5 Blessed are the meek,
for they will inherit the earth.
6 Blessed are those who hunger and thirst for righteousness,
for they will be filled.
7 Blessed are the merciful,
for they will be shown mercy.
8 Blessed are the pure in heart,
for they will see God.
9 Blessed are the peacemakers,
for they will be called children of God.
10 Blessed are those who are persecuted because of righteousness,
for theirs is the kingdom of heaven.

11 “Blessed are you when people insult you, persecute you and falsely say all kinds of evil against you because of me. 12 Rejoice and be glad, because great is your reward in heaven, for in the same way they persecuted the prophets who were before you.
Salt and Light
13 “You are the salt of the earth. But if the salt loses its saltiness, how can it be made salty again? It is no longer good for anything, except to be thrown out and trampled underfoot.

14 “You are the light of the world. A town built on a hill cannot be hidden. 15 Neither do people light a lamp and put it under a bowl. Instead they put it on its stand, and it gives light to everyone in the house. 16 In the same way, let your light shine before others, that they may see your good deeds and glorify your Father in heaven.

Luke

27 “But to you who are listening I say: Love your enemies, do good to those who hate you, 28 bless those who curse you, pray for those who mistreat you. 29 If someone slaps you on one cheek, turn to them the other also. If someone takes your coat, do not withhold your shirt from them. 30 Give to everyone who asks you, and if anyone takes what belongs to you, do not demand it back. 31 Do to others as you would have them do to you.
32 “If you love those who love you, what credit is that to you? Even sinners love those who love them. 33 And if you do good to those who are good to you, what credit is that to you? Even sinners do that. 34 And if you lend to those from whom you expect repayment, what credit is that to you? Even sinners lend to sinners, expecting to be repaid in full. 35 But love your enemies, do good to them, and lend to them without expecting to get anything back. Then your reward will be great, and you will be children of the Most High, because he is kind to the ungrateful and wicked. 36 Be merciful, just as your Father is merciful.

Judging Others

37 “Do not judge, and you will not be judged. Do not condemn, and you will not be condemned. Forgive, and you will be forgiven. 38 Give, and it will be given to you. A good measure, pressed down, shaken together and running over, will be poured into your lap. For with the measure you use, it will be measured to you.”<<<< my all time favorite, dont judge and be generous and be blessed for it!! still working on those. ( what goes around comes around)

i used to read this as a teenager but as I have gotten older I realized what he was telling us. The no arguing peaceful way is a key to inner peace and good relationships with others. For so many years it was staring me in the face while I got angry with people in my 20's. Finally I got it

[Triner]

show you something guys, christianity.its not hard. Its so simple I dunno how it gets so convoluted.

I think it gets convoluted because fundamentalists make it so. I was raised Christian (Catholic), I've been to Baptists, Methodist, and some other churches.

I think the basic theme of Christ's teachings were Love. I think it's very simple, very beautiful, very powerful; Love. Love others. Love everything. Just Love.

Yet, others want to throw out fear, vengence, righteous, and judgement all under the name of Christianity. They want to tell us that others are evil if they don't believe the way they do. There's no Love in their message.

I think they've completely missed the point. They've got things so convoluted with self-righteousness that they're deaf and blind. Eerie thing is, they sound way too much like the Muslim Ayatollahs that preach the same fear, vengence, righteous, and judgement but in the name of Islam.

[Lightspirit]

I think it gets convoluted because fundamentalists make it so. I was raised Christian (Catholic), I've been to Baptists, Methodist, and some other churches.

I think the basic theme of Christ's teachings were Love. I think it's very simple, very beautiful, very powerful; Love. Love others. Love everything. Just Love.

Yet, others want to throw out fear, vengence, righteous, and judgement all under the name of Christianity. They want to tell us that others are evil if they don't believe the way they do. There's no Love in their message.

I think they've completely missed the point. They've got things so convoluted with self-righteousness that they're deaf and blind. Eerie thing is, they sound way too much like the Muslim Ayatollahs that preach the same fear, vengence, righteous, and judgement but in the name of Islam. pretty much. self riteousness creeps in too. but what i quoted above the words of Jesus A little kid could understand it..

[Triner]

pretty much. self riteousness creeps in too. but what i quoted above the words of Jesus A little kid could understand it..

Absolutely. So why don't they hear it? Why do they insist on sowing fear, vengence, and all that other drivel?

[Time]

Because people have a hard time giving up their entire paradigm for truth. Thats all it is, which is why I think its dangerous to only teach your kids about the bible. Teaching them something that states its the only way, when weve all agreed there are other ways to ( dr seuss right :P ), will continue that same problem.

Teaching kids to only believe one thing, only to have them learn that it all isnt the truth, is a hard thing to do.

Some one on here asked me one time " so if your kid comes up and goes " daddy, are there really angels in the world?" what would I say, i told him that

" Some people believe so, and others believe theyre arent. There are some good things that show that there might be, and some things that make you think not, what do you think?"

Not letting out kids have the freedom to think for themselves and find their own truth, is the reason why so many catholics and christians ( im talkin general, im not picking on anyone here) are unable to change, they are afraid to, because its literaly changing everything that they know...

[norseman]

I prefer the Monty Python version of the Beatitudes
"Blessed are the cheesemakers"

[Bluegreen]

I prefer the Monty Python version of the Beatitudes
"Blessed are the cheesemakers"
:D :D A breath of fresh air. :D :D :D

[theophilus]

I have to agree with Norseman. It was not long ago that I came across an article in The Blaze about a new version of the Bible being printed due to how animals were addressed in the Bible. There were some other things too - gender was one if I recall right.

It's just constantly being rewritten - it would be nice to know what the 'True' Bible was like and to have a Concordant to help out if need be.We can know what the Bible originally said because there are a lot of early manuscripts of it. Here are two sites that can help you if you want to learn more about this:

http://bible-researcher.com/index.html (http://www.spiritualforums.com/vb/redir.php?link=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.spiritualforums.co m%2Fvb%2Fredir.php%3Flink%3Dhttp%253A%252F%252Fwww .spiritualforums.com%252Fvb%252Fredir.php%253Flink %253Dhttp%25253A%25252F%25252Fwww.spiritualforums. com%25252Fvb%25252Fredir.php%25253Flink%25253Dhttp %2525253A%2525252F%2525252Fbible-researcher.com%2525252Findex.html)

http://www.ntcanon.org/index.shtml

There are translators who deliberately distort the Bible to fit their preconceived ideas but there are also some who study the manuscripts and try to make their translations conform as much as possible to them. You can find helpful information about these translations here:

http://carm.org/which-bible-version-is-best (http://www.spiritualforums.com/vb/redir.php?link=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.spiritualforums.co m%2Fvb%2Fredir.php%3Flink%3Dhttp%253A%252F%252Fcar m.org%252Fwhich-bible-version-is-best)

The translation I use is the English Standard Version.

[Time]

the ESV is pretty much the dumbed down version ( not callin ya dumb) Everytime its translated, it looses its meaning.

[RabbiO]

the ESV is pretty much the dumbed down version ( not callin ya dumb) Everytime its translated, it looses its meaning.

I don't use the ESV.

I have not gone chapter by chapter, verse by verse of the ESV translation of the Tanakh, but I have done some checking and there are enough errors such that I could not recommend it.

I'll stick with the original Hebrew.

B'shalom,

Peter

[Lightspirit]

Absolutely. So why don't they hear it? Why do they insist on sowing fear, vengence, and all that other drivel?Jesus words while diectly from him in those quotes, parallels of some ideas are found in the teachings of other enlightened wise teachers.
And people are still fighting. I think they did not listen or are stooopid. A kid can understand it, it takes an adult to question its existence and ignore it.
try doing for a week the principals in the beatitudes and hatch how your life changes.

[Time]

Rabbio - Ive always wondered, do you know what texts your books are taken? Like, how far back they go?

[Internal Queries]

I prefer the Monty Python version of the Beatitudes
"Blessed are the cheesemakers"


**sings** "always look on the bright side of life!"

[Majestic]

My belief is of the evangelical Christian one like Pentecostal. I am writing this as an observation of what positives I see.

Many don’t understand where Christianity is growing fastest now.



I see many positive changes that occur from bringing about the good news. Yesterday, I had the opportunity to listen to a Christian Missionary. Reporting back to the Church, the Missionary is in Kenya currently educating people in discipleship.

Right before the Missionary arrived, there was a woman who in her belief (Hindu) from every waking moment to setting herself down for bed struggled with the gods. She could not rest day and night feeling the wrath of the gods upon her. She searched wide throughout the village for someone who could tell her how to please the gods. One after another she was denied, until she came upon a man respected in the village that told her what to do. He said to go down to the river and wash, then go back for your children, and drown them. She did what she was told in order to please the river god. A few days later she ran into another Chrisitan missionary. Sometimes we (Christians) arrive late when responding to God's calling. I think that that is our human response, battling between our own will and accepting the purpose God has for us.

Another Missionary was called to go to a foreign land. She arrived late too, there was a ship that was exporting women. The Coast Guard arrived and the ships crew began throwing the women who were in barrels overboard. Most of them died, but there were a few who survived. One woman bitter and frantic later was sat down to talk to the missionary. And couldn't believe that God could let such things happen to her, and asked the Missionary where she was before this all happend. And like the missionary above, she could only saying her sincere apologies for not answering to God's call sooner.

Then there are the others that are not facing such terrible circumstances, to some are providing clean water, by establishing wells in villages without clean water, establishing churches in thier villages. Teaching people by action, not by words alone. They are usually widely accepted, and the church ends up becoming the center of their society.

These are some of the gracious acts I see given by men and women dedicated to God, the teachings of Jesus Christ, and the Churches that stand behind these people, funding them, and providing the resources. The members are donating their hard earned cash, with the mentality that giving back to God is giving what belongs to God.

[Lightspirit]

@Majestic I think god sets things up in weird ways that allow us to intervene in the lives of others in a good way. I have seen it a few times.

Recent story- I was out with my wife on a night out, just the 2 of us. after dinner we walked past the local rsl club so we went in to see the band. while I was in there I thought to myself I'm gonna play those pokies and whatever I win Im gonna give it all to charity.I thought Im gonna do this and see what happens. ( one would expect the machines to empty out shier contents here if God was involved..you would think).

Ok I put 2 bucks in and said god do your stuff. Sure enough lal the lights went off etc and after a minute of carrying on as those things do 90 bucks came out so I pocketed it thinking I would give it to some charity. I was thinking to myself this measly amount isn't gonna change the world like say 12K could. (why didn't God give me that instead to poor people?)

What I didnt know.....

In the background God had a plan..

The next day I went to church and after it there was people outside selling bottles of water for 20 bucks each for charity. Each bottle of water bought would give 4 people fresh drinking water like in Africa or something for the rest of their lives. As it just so happened God set up a way for me to give money to that from what he provided It just so happens I had enough for four. :))) Ok this isn't a story a bout how good I am coz im not! Its just how god works through us. 16 people got fresh water because of provision. I couldn't have bought that then without that provision. ( so many times I have personally seen strangely coincidental things happen.


I was asking God for direction in my life regarding something this week. Yesterday a knock was heard on my door, a girl I used to go to church with an old friend who is now at another church came to visit me. I have not seen her in 3 years. She said she had been praying to God and had a message for me. When she came in and we talked and she told me why she came, to her surprise instead of thinking her nuts I said i been waiting for my answer. She came for the exact thing I was asking for.I wanted some direction in volunteer work which I presently dont do any of.

[Triner]

Jesus words while diectly from him in those quotes, parallels of some ideas are found in the teachings of other enlightened wise teachers.
And people are still fighting. I think they did not listen or are stooopid. A kid can understand it, it takes an adult to question its existence and ignore it.
try doing for a week the principals in the beatitudes and hatch how your life changes.
I understand completely. My questions were somewhat rhetorical. I think Jesus' message is very simple and clear. It's all of the extraneous stuff that's been thrown on top of it to control people through fear that is sad.

[norseman]

" the original Hebrew."
Purely out of curiosity, RabbiO. Is it original or has Hebrew suffered semantic creep over the centuries like all other languages ?
I was thinking about our Lindisfarne Gospels, written in my "patch", and wondering about it's value as more than a historical treasure.

As a strictly non-christian, I have done overnight vigils on Lindisfarne [Holy Isle] . The place crackles with energies and is a very holy place :smile:

Holy Isle http://i282.photobucket.com/albums/kk267/norseman_photo/castles/HolyIsle.jpg

[Miss Hepburn]

Recent story- I was out with my wife on a night out, just the 2 of us....
I relate completely.
:hug2:

(Always thought you were a female, tho.)
:wink:

[Miss Hepburn]

It's all of the extraneous stuff that's been thrown on top of it to control people through fear that is sad.

I know!!! :icon_frown:

[Lightspirit]

I relate completely.
:hug2:

(Always thought you were a female, tho.)
:wink: Lol me a girl!...we are sooo not goin shopping for handbags together and watching a chick flick.

i should change that name of mine but cant think of a good replacement.

[Triner]

i should change that name of mine but cant think of a good replacement.
LightWorkerDudeAu? :D

[Lightspirit]

LightWorkerDudeAu? :DAlways has been a bad choice if name I have a bad habit if I join something I call it the last thing I saw before joining most of the time you don't like them or return to m The name I want is my real name. I hate spending ages dreaming up a name and as soon as you log on what you joined it sucks. My first second life account was called felafel
I gotta make it shorter. Il think of something. Lol heather thought I was a chick in the ESP game too. Gotta fix it