Limitation of Beliefs

[astroboy]

Beware of Beliefs! It is better to reside in the realm of anxiety and not knowing rather than succumb to the slumber of beliefs. Beliefs are merely thoughts and perceptions of other fallible human beings that sound like Truth but under investigation...turn out to be...not. Live your life from your own Truths...through your own experiences...or even blazingly discard all beliefs and become a vessel for true knowledge. Get comfortable saying...I Don't Know...feel how it feels to not have the answers and even better...to not need them. I am doing this in my life now. It is raw and real. You are your own best resource for what to believe and not to believe.

This was taken from another thread. I am posting it here because the poster of the above, windwhistle, inspired me to start this new thread. I have come across many other sources that resonate with this idea.
< video has been deleted >
Regards,

~ astroboy ~

[Miss Hepburn]

Hmm, I couldn't get the youtube to work - would you check it?

[astroboy]

< deleted >

[sound]

Hi astroboy ... I am unable to watch the youtube link until midnight on the 6th June, not because it is 'broken' but because my daughter used all our gigabytes and, as a result, we have been unceremoniously kicked back to dial up speed lol grrr ...

Anyway I will still make comment and suggest that the very belief that beliefs are limiting sort of creates a self fulfilling prophesy in a sense, don't you think?

This was taken from another thread. I am posting it here because the poster of the above, windwhistle, inspired me to start this new thread. I have come across many other sources that resonate with this idea. For example after you've watched the following video, you're welcomed to pour out your views here.

Regards,

~ astroboy ~

[astroboy]

Is it similar to the idea of atheism being a belief system by itself? Are you saying that beliefs are a natural part of human nature?

So here's the question again: Beliefs do help you but there is a limit to that help?

[Miss Hepburn]

[quote=astroboy]Here, Miss Hepburn.
~ (http://www.spiritualforums.com/vb/redir.php?link=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.youtube.com%2Fwatc h%3Fv%3DJ8Nim4D_wQA%26amp%3Bplaynext%3D1%26amp%3Bl ist%3DPL28EF6F4482485F2D)
Ok, I agree with what he said - but this is an X-rated youtube and will be deleted when the Mods wake up.
There are children on this site, that's why.

Maybe you could delete it now, but paraphrase the things he's says?
They were valid - but needn't be said in a Tantric Sex context.
Not here anyway.
:smile:

[sound]

Yes i guess the atheism example does illustrate what i am saying in one sense. I feel that believing is a natural aspect of our 'conscious experience.' In answer to your last question there, i feel that limitations are self imposed ...

[Bluegreen]

Beliefs do help you but there is a limit to that help?


Beliefs can only help so much. Therefore, yes, there is a limit. They can induce the desire to know.

[astroboy]

OK, Thanks for the warning. The video has been deleted.

[astroboy]

Beliefs can only help so much. Therefore, yes, there is a limit. They can induce the desire to know.

I agree with regard to the fact that they can induce the desire to know. Can you kindly provide some points so that I can get a clearer picture about your views?

[Greenslade]

I often wonder how our Spirit feels when we become incarnate. To Spirit, does this human existence feel like having one eye poked out and putting dark sunglasses on, our ears filled with wax so we can't hear much, having nerve endings switched off so we can't feel, a lobotomy that leaves three braincells? Because that is what we base our beliefs on.

Often people are so engrossed in their beliefs that they can't see past them, the 'lock on, lock out' principle. They lock onto their beliefs and lock everything else out. Shame really, because Life is a pretty big tapestry and others' beliefs are a part of that tapestry. But then, is that just my beliefs talking :-)? Or they build sand-bagged entrenchments to take pot-shots at those who don't share their beliefs. If you believe you have all the answers you need, do you stop there? "And the road goes ever on."

Sometimes it's interesting to walk the Path and enjoy the scenery. When you turn that corner there's a different Path and different scenery.

When Life becomes a search for the question and you realise that you already ARE the answer, it takes a curious twist.

[Explorer]

I think that if you keep your beliefs limited to 99.99% or less, you should be ok.
Believe ANYTHING 100% or 0% (no matter true or false) will render your mind stagnant and inflexible.

[Member]

Beliefs can only help so much. Therefore, yes, there is a limit. They can induce the desire to know.
If by flying, or holistic healing and the likes, then I agree with you on belief having limits.

Other than that, I honestly think belief is limitless.
Well, at least I hope it is. :director2:

[athribiristan]

This was taken from another thread. I am posting it here because the poster of the above, windwhistle, inspired me to start this new thread. I have come across many other sources that resonate with this idea.
< video has been deleted >
Regards,

~ astroboy ~

I think it depends on what you choose to believe. I have always sought out those beliefs which are most empowering and avoided those which are disempowering. Inevitably this means discarding old beliefs as new more empowering ones reveal themselves. The power of belief is the power to create, and while they can become a prison, they can also set us free.

Just remember that CHOOSE what you believe....therein lies both the danger and the power of belief.

[astroboy]

Inevitably this means discarding old beliefs as new more empowering ones reveal themselves. The power of belief is the power to create, and while they can become a prison, they can also set us free.

How can beliefs set you free, athribiristan?

[athribiristan]

How can beliefs set you free, athribiristan?

As I said, it depends on what you choose to believe.

I believe that I am a divine immortal being.

That thought is very empowering. It has freed me from a great many other beliefs that have held me back.

I believe that I am a child of God

His is watching me, guiding me, caring for me, Loving me every moment. I am protected by His grace.

I believe that I have free will

I am the equal of every human. None are above me, none are below me.


These are just a few of the empowering ideas that I have CHOSEN to believe, based simply on the merit that they empower me. It really doesn't matter if any of it is true. Those beliefs give me power over my own life.

[athribiristan]

How can beliefs set you free, athribiristan?

Oh, yeah one other....

I believe that I am free.

[norseman]

"belief" is just another way of saying "I dont know !"

[athribiristan]

"belief" is just another way of saying "I dont know !"

If you say so. Either way beliefs have an effect on us. By making a conscious decision to believe in that which emowers us, we can choose not to be constrained by them.

[Time]

belifs made things such as civil rights movement, science and other things that are so good...

Beliefs also is what hitler/stalin and the like had, as well as holy wars, and hate and everything we generaly cocider bad or harmful...

Beliefs are powerful, and can be used for good and bad, just like a surgeons skills, and demolition skills. Its up to you to choose what you do with them, no one else....

Teach to lead, and tell those who follow you to stopp following, and to lead, so they can teach other followers to lead

[astroboy]

As I said, it depends on what you choose to believe.

I believe that I am a divine immortal being.

That thought is very empowering. It has freed me from a great many other beliefs that have held me back.



Very genuine thoughts, athribiristan.

[astroboy]

Sometimes it's interesting to walk the Path and enjoy the scenery. When you turn that corner there's a different Path and different scenery.

When Life becomes a search for the question and you realize that you already ARE the answer, it takes a curious twist.

Kindly expand on this, Greenslade.

[Internal Queries]

so i'd like to believe in myself, my Self and that my inner experience have validity but i can't ... not really ... not consistantly anyway. though for long moments at a time i believe in what i experience when i "come down" out a trance state i immediately begin to doubt what i've just experienced. at which point i don't trust myself and i'm not sure if The Self exists or whether my inner experiences are anything other than very imaginative self deceptions.

i can't seem to CHOOSE to believe. i can't manufacture "belief" or "faith" like other folks are apparently able to do. though my inner experiences seem quite real in the moment, follow logical patterns and even have some basis in science my doubt persists. it's frustrating because i'd really like to believe. i'd be a happier person if i could.

[astroboy]

so i'd like to believe in myself, my Self and that my inner experience have validity but i can't ... not really ... not consistantly anyway. though for long moments at a time i believe in what i experience when i "come down" out a trance state i immediately begin to doubt what i've just experienced. at which point i don't trust myself and i'm not sure if The Self exists or whether my inner experiences are anything other than very imaginative self deceptions.

i can't seem to CHOOSE to believe. i can't manufacture "belief" or "faith" like other folks are apparently able to do. though my inner experiences seem quite real in the moment, follow logical patterns and even have some basis in science my doubt persists. it's frustrating because i'd really like to believe. i'd be a happier person if i could.

Your spiritual mileage is not usually measurable by your own self. Only when you speak with people around you and get hurt by their negativity will you then understand the space which you have traveled.

[Internal Queries]

Your spiritual mileage is not usually measurable by your own self. Only when you speak with people around you and get hurt by their negativity will you then understand the space which you have traveled.


that seems profound, astroboy but i don't know what you mean.

[astroboy]

that seems profound, astroboy but i don't know what you mean.

It means your subjective experiences are unique to yourself only. However, there are those who have traveled the Path and can tell you that you're doing fine and encourage you to continue even 'further'.

[athribiristan]

It means your subjective experiences are unique to yourself only. However, there are those who have traveled the Path and can tell you that you're doing fine and encourage you to continue even 'further'.

Agreed. Keep putting one spiritual foot in front of the other. You are even now making a tough transition from knowledge to Faith.

[astroboy]

Agreed. Keep putting one spiritual foot in front of the other. You are even now making a tough transition from knowledge to Faith.

The path gets narrower in a sense, but wider in understanding.

[Internal Queries]

Agreed. Keep putting one spiritual foot in front of the other. You are even now making a tough transition from knowledge to Faith.


well gee ... i hope so but telepathy with other physical human beings seems to be considered a crazy idea, even on this open minded site. so much of my "faith" in the spiritual work i do is dependent on the actuality of the my fellow co-operants.

sheesh! it would have been so much easier if my inner experiences had been restricted to telepathic communication disembodied guides or angels where confirmation of their reality wouldn't feel necessary. faith would be so easy to achieve. but when your inner contacts are apparently also in physical bodies somewhere in the world it throws an extra complication into the works. if what i experience is just my imagination what might be the psychological reason for me to complicate it like that? why didn't i create my inner reality with the fail safe of nonphysicality?

[astroboy]

if what i experience is just my imagination what would be the psychological reason for me to complicate it like that?
Reply With Quote

I'm not qualified to answer this question. Not a psychologist. But however, as a participant, I would like to tell you that you get better at whatever you're doing with practice. If telepathy interests you, then by all means, pursue it. One day you'll be able to open a school and train others in a more professional way. The present trainers could not be full-time in this profession, who knows?

[Greenslade]

Kindly expand on this, Greenslade.

Beliefs are walking a Path, and as your beliefs form from a single, simple seed the Universe puts things in your way to either consolidate or challenge your beliefs - like this forum for example. From that simple seed your belief grows to what it is today. But what do you do with those beliefs? Do you build yourself a sand-bagged entrenchment to defend against all comers, or do you see your beliefs as an ever-changing stream with so many twists and turns? Exclusion or inclusion. Exclude these beliefs, include those. But what if all beliefs are valid, even though they are so diametrically opposed to yours? If there is reason to everything in this Universe, then surely there must be a reason for so many people with their diverse backgrounds having diverse beliefs? Right and wrong - when it comes to beliefs - tend to pale into insignificance and the words 'right' and 'wrong' are replaced by the word 'diverse'. Life and beliefs becomes a tapestry of interwoven threads. Take a different set of beliefs and take a different Path. Exclusion only narrows your perspective, where inclusion expands it and you see a much bigger picture.

Why are we here? To learn our lessons, experience........ pick one of perhaps a dozen reasons. To me, the Universe and everything in it is to answer one of two questions - Who Am I and Who Am I Not? I Am a Spiritual person, I Am Not a Spiritual person. I Am someone who believes in this, I Am Not someone who believes in this. For those who are more self-aware, they are closer to realising this because they have a sense of I Am (as not in an ego-based way). You are the answer - You Are. There comes the question "Why is this happening to me? The answer is already there, it is the reason for your existence.

Now, what's the question?

Douglas Adams was a very clever guy in my opinion, he wrapped up something very wise in comical sci-fi when he wrote the Hitch-Hiker's Guide to the Galaxy. Cutting a long (and very clever) story short, in the book the computer Deep Thought was asked to work out the question of "Life, the Universe and Everything". The answer was 42. He didn't understand the question in the first place.

[Bluegreen]

There are so many forums and even more threads in them that I lost track and only now came across your thread again, astroboy.

You wanted me to explain what I meant when I wrote: "Beliefs can only help so much. Therefore, yes, there is a limit. They can induce the desire to know."

In a simplified way.

There is one central belief, namely, the belief there is a God/the belief there is no God. This by itself is limiting in the sense that it does not tell us anything about why we are here and how we should live nor does it tell us anything about the universe we live in. That is why religions came to be established, I believe. They provided a framework of conduct, of do’s and don’ts and some explanation of the universe whether true or not.

There are people who are content only to believe what their sacred books tell them and to follow the ‘instructions’ of their religions. I feel that to live within such a framework is limiting and stunts growth.

Then there are the curious who are not satisfied simply to believe what books or people say. They use the books as steppingstones to learn more. Those are the people who want to know rather than believe.

The most extreme book I have read to date is The Convoluted Universe Vol. III, by Dolores Cannon.

[astroboy]

The most extreme book I have read to date is The Convoluted Universe Vol. III, by Dolores Cannon.
Here's the pdf version of this book:
http://flavian.ro/engleza/Dolores%20Cannon%20-%206%20Convoluted%20Universe%20III.pdf

[Bluegreen]

Thanks, astroboy. Is there somewhere I can download vols I and II? (Yep, I am greedy.:D )

[astroboy]

Thanks, astroboy. Is there somewhere I can download vols I and II?

I couldn't find the two earlier volumes, Bluegreen.

[Bluegreen]

I couldn't find the two earlier volumes, Bluegreen.

Thank you for the trouble you took, Astroboy.

[Topology]

Since people like to claim their beliefs as truth and are willing to kill each other over differing beliefs, I began to ask the question: Is it possible to believe nothing?

And the answer is yes. Yes it is.

Now before anyone comes at me at says "that's impossible". Let me illustrate. When you are in the direct experience of something, you do not believe what you see, you KNOW what you see. When I am looking at an orange I can see the orange skin and I feel compelled to call the experience 'orange' since that was the term I learned for it. Now remove the orange from my experience. Ask me again what the color is of that fruit, I will say its orange because that is what I remember it being. The memory was grounded in experience. As more time passes between the actual experience and now, the memory fades into a weak belief.

What I have found is that what most people call beliefs, or their faiths, is that they believe in something which they've never experienced directly, such as events which were presumed to occur in the past. I don't have any of those kinds of beliefs. I try to operate as belief free as possible because what I have found is that when people have beliefs they are cut off from the truth of their experience.

Beliefs are frequently tied to false identities. Because people rely on their peer group for their own identity, they will adopt the belief of their peers in order to keep fitting in. If someone experiences a change in their belief, the peer group can begin to shun and persecute the person. When someone moves from having a faith/belief to not having one, there is an identity crisis because it feels like you don't know who you are without the belief.

I decided to see how much could be done without belief, and I've discovered that one does not really need any kind of belief to get by in the world or to enjoy a fulfilling spirituality. One can admit "I don't know" and simply enjoy and cherish the experience of being alive.

[astroboy]

Because people rely on their peer group for their own identity, they will adopt the belief of their peers in order to keep fitting in. If someone experiences a change in their belief, the peer group can begin to shun and persecute the person.
Topology,
That's a good one.

[Miss Hepburn]

Topology,

Excellent...

:smile:

[Seperate_Reality]

This is what I believe, look, evaluate-test, conclude, decide, what is true for you or what is not true for you. Be careful what you agree with, without doing the above.
Logic is exactly the same as "reason". How does your ability to reason, go wrong? Why aren't people more reasonable? They accept "illogical data" or "false-information", then they try to reason with that illogical data or false-information. The answer is almost guaranteed to be illogical, isn't it?
It is not going to make sense to someone that knows. It usually doesn't make sense even to the person either, and they become confused. They can't think with the false information they accepted. If the goal is to know the truth, then the "individual" is the one that will know it. Not a group, not a science paper, not a book, but an individual will know it.

[astroboy]

They accept "illogical data" or "false-information", then they try to reason with that illogical data or false-information. The answer is almost guaranteed to be illogical, isn't it?

Please expand on this, friend!

[Seperate_Reality]

"Please expand on this, friend!"

Let's say when you were a kid, you heard your Father tell someone, that blond haired women are dumb. You agreed with this, "thinking", Father is really smart and so believe what he says. One day as you get older you meet a very smart blond haired woman and now become confused, because you took in, agreed with, and have been operating off of this false-information from your Father. An intelligent person can now look at, and evaluate this new information, conclude and decide, that not all blond haired women are dumb...

[astroboy]

An intelligent person can now look at, and evaluate this new information, conclude and decide, that not all blond haired women are dumb...
Reply With Quote

Blonde women are smarter than the other women.

[A. Consumer]

"Your perception determines your reality." ---The Prophet of Life

[Gem]

I wouldn't say belief means limitation... but belief surounds 'I'... so self esteem and worthiness are fundemental to belief and lives are effected thus, but also, although everyone has these beliefs in some manner of positivity or negativity and both, the understanding exists that the beliefs are 'what I think' and are not true, which allows an opening for possibility.

[Miss Hepburn]

"Your perception determines your reality." ---The Prophet of LifeYou know there are alot of truths out there, but this one seems to be so important - in my life.
My perceptions are pretty right on and everything seems to always fall into place.
I love my perspective.
:wink:

[Miss Hepburn]

Blonde women are smarter than the other women.
They have to be to find a good salon for the color treatments.