Is Money the root of all evil...

[nightowl]

...??? All views welcome :smile:


nightowl

[psychoslice]

No of course its not, its the user of the money, guns can't walk up and shot someone either.

[Internal Queries]

1 Timothy 6.10 "For the love of money is a root of all kinds of evil. Some people, eager for money, have wandered from the faith and pierced themselves with many griefs."

money is just a way to conduct commerce so no, money is not the root of all kinds of evil ... but the love of it is.

[ROM]

Money in and of itself is not evil. It's how people go about it that makes it so. And definitely not the root of all evil. A person doesn't rape for money; a person doesn't kill for money; the list goes on.

[MoonDancer]

Nah, you have to look who and why. In this world we need money to stay alive. So the fight for it is comes down to the will to live. Of course than you just have greed. But that's not the money's fault either. After all, its not the money the people really want, its what the money can get them. So don't shoot the messenger ;) If you get down to the root of it, based off the phrase money is the root of all evil, is kinda saying humans are the root of all evil. But hey, we are a nasty species.

[nightowl]

Yes, I agree money in and of itself is not evil. The lack of and pursuit of money I think can be seen as a catalyst of many of the evils in the world.

[Jyotir]

Hi nightowl,

When this topic comes up I invariably refer people to this short essay which is imo excellent.

http://intyoga.online.fr/mothr04.htm

Hope this is useful.

~ J

[Lightspirit]

maybe greed is the root of all evil

[nightowl]

Money in and of itself is not evil. It's how people go about it that makes it so. And definitely not the root of all evil. A person doesn't rape for money; a person doesn't kill for money; the list goes on.

Rom,

You have never heard of someone killing another person for money???:confused:

DevilishAngel,

Yep, I tend to believe that man is the creator of evil. Much of mans history is fraught with the evil and violence over the pursuit of money or some form of it and sometimes it was in the form of resources that man needs to survive.

Jyotir,
Thanks for the link.

Internal Queries,

Thanks for providing us with the actual verse.

[nightowl]

maybe greed is the root of all evil

good point lightworkerAu], you popped in while I was posting :D

[Blaze]

No. But it could be a cause.

[Natalia]

I'm not going to boldly say yes to money being the root of ALL evil but it sure does make some people do crazy stuff for money. The classic old saying 'money talks'

Bright Blessings :color:

[agiosotheos]

As biased as I am against money, no, I have to say that evil predates money.

[God-Like]

If the only currency was carrots - then carrots would/could be blamed for being at the root to of many of our troubles .

What the problem Is perhaps, Is that It will be "whatever" we value or put a value to that Is above something else .

x dazzle x

[LIFE]

I would say misconception is the root of all evil.

[NightSpirit]

...??? All views welcome :smile:


nightowl

Probably because the original quote has been changed over time and therefore, lost its true meaning.......

"For the love of money is the root of all evil: which while some coveted after, they have erred from the faith, and pierced themselves through with many sorrows."

(1 Timothy 6:10 (http://en.wikisource.org/wiki/Bible_(King_James)/1_Timothy#6:10)) KJV (http://en.wikisource.org/wiki/Bible_(King_James)) (The King James Bible)

[NightSpirit]

There are many many famous misquotes these days. To quote a few....

""Houston, we have a problem"

This phrase, supposedly uttered by Apollo 13 (http://www.spiritualforums.com/vb/redir.php?link=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.spiritualforums.co m%2Fwiki%2FApollo_13) commander, Jim Lovell (http://www.spiritualforums.com/vb/redir.php?link=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.spiritualforums.co m%2Fw%2Findex.php%3Ftitle%3DJim_Lovell%26amp%3Bact ion%3Dedit%26amp%3Bredlink%3D1) was, in its original rendering: "Houston, we've had a problem here. We've had a main B bus undervolt"."Hell hath no fury like a woman scorned"

The correct quotation is "Heaven has no rage like love to hatred turned/ Nor hell a fury like a woman scorned." by William Congreve (http://www.spiritualforums.com/vb/redir.php?link=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.spiritualforums.co m%2Fwiki%2FWilliam_Congreve) in The Mourning Bride of 1697.
Do you feel lucky, punk?" - Clint Eastwood (http://www.spiritualforums.com/wiki/Clint_Eastwood) as Harry Callahan in Dirty Harry (http://www.spiritualforums.com/wiki/Dirty_Harry)

Correct quote plus context: "Ah-ah. I know what you're thinking: 'Did he fire six shots, or only five?' Well, to tell you the truth, in all this excitement I kind of lost track myself. But, being as this is a .44 Magnum, the most powerful handgun in the world, and would blow your head clean off, you've got to ask yourself one question: 'Do I feel lucky?' Well, do ya, PUNK?"

[psychoslice]

The best things in life are free but you can leave them to the birds and bee's, give me money, that's what I want, yea.:headbang:

[LIFE]

Probably because the original quote has been changed over time and therefore, lost its true meaning.......

"For the love of money is the root of all evil: which while some coveted after, they have erred from the faith, and pierced themselves through with many sorrows."


If the "love of money" (greed) was truly the root of all evil, that would beg the question: what has led the person to develop such greed? There is a step prior to the "love of money" that drives its development, so that cannot be the actual root.

If one were socially/culturally conditioned to believe that money (i.e., material wealth in any form) was the single loftiest and most rewarding and fulfilling aim to which a person could aspire --and that the most important, worthy, deserving, talented, powerful, and creative people were those that possessed the most of it-- then a palpable "love" (unmitigated, unquenchable desire) for money would quite naturally ensue.

In this way, one can see that what we would call "love of money" is necessarily preceded by a fundamental misconstruing of humanity's relationship to money/wealth/materialism born of social or cultural conditioning. All of which, mind you, is born out of even deeper, more fundamental misconceptions (too involved to get into here), but misconceptions all the same.

[NightSpirit]

If the "love of money" (greed) was truly the root of all evil, that would beg the question: what has led the person to develop such greed? There is a step prior to the "love of money" that drives its development, so that cannot be the actual root.

If one were socially/culturally conditioned to believe that money (i.e., material wealth in any form) was the single loftiest and most rewarding and fulfilling aim to which a person could aspire --and that the most important, worthy, deserving, talented, powerful, and creative people were those that possessed the most of it-- then a palpable "love" (unmitigated, unquenchable desire) for money would quite naturally ensue.

In this way, one can see that what we would call "love of money" is necessarily preceded by a fundamental misconstruing of humanity's relationship to money/wealth/materialism born of social or cultural conditioning. All of which, mind you, is born out of even deeper, more fundamental misconceptions (too involved to get into here), but misconceptions all the same.

I'm hearing yer LIFE :smile:

[3dnow]

I would say distorting the reality is the root of all evil.

3dnow

[Bluegreen]

...??? All views welcome :smile:
nightowl

Money in itself is not the root of evil of course. Like everything it can be used for good and evil.

Money should be a symbol of how many you can protect.
[...]
Fat on the belly and money in the bank are manifestations of the same ineptitude in the employment of energy (by savings account I mean money not doing or even earning anything--'sock under the bed.')

Do not fear food. Do not fear money. But do most rightly fear the capacity not to make full and immediate use of the energies which are immediately available--i.e. instead of gaining an extra pound ask 'Whose suitcase can I lift?' When you gain an extra dollar ask 'Who needs it to help him see the direction in which to grow?'
[...]
Their wealth ... will be a burden to them unless they decide to employ their potential energy in a creative manner...such persons might have used to their benefit the aphorism 'those who pay death duties have failed in their life duties.'-- Joan Grant

Joan Grant believed that there should always be an energy exchange.

[Scibat]

I think money and/or power can lead to evil actions. Simply because with either the "rules" don't apply as much to the wealthy and powerful. From politicians to celebrities to religions figures, excesses of money and power lead many astray.

So I don't think money is the root of all evil, I think the ability of money to bypass a lot of the rules of law and society can lead to evil deeds.

[nightowl]

I really appreciate everyone's input on this thread.:hug3: The general consensus seems to be that money itself and the pursuit of money, may not be evil but it is the intentions behind the pursuit that can produces evil.

So here is another question; How does one place a value on something? I have often wondered how it is determined that something like a baseball card could be worth like $5000 dollars or one piece of sushi costing $500 dollars...open thought feel free to elaborate...:smile:

[Scibat]

I really appreciate everyone's input on this thread.:hug3: The general consensus seems to be that money itself and the pursuit of money, may not be evil but it is the intentions behind the pursuit that can produces evil.

So here is another question; How does one place a value on something? I have often wondered how it is determined that something like a baseball card could be worth like $5000 dollars or one piece of sushi costing $500 dollars...open thought feel free to elaborate...:smile:

Funny this should come up now.

It really comes down to what the market will bear, or what you think you can get a person to pay. Rarity, exclusivity, exoticism these all increase the perceived value of something.

But sometimes, its just how much you think you can get out of someone that sets the price, and sadly there are a lot of people out there willing to throw away money on extremely frivolous things, just to say they have one, of they have it first. (I don't mean this in any sort of way, just some people are stupid with their money and will throw it away on expensive, pointless items.)

The reason for my saying that it's funny that this is coming up now, is that I have a story about the value of some things:

I play an online game. In this game you can buy virtual currency with real money, then exchange that currency for in game (virtual) items. The game is a shooter, you run around with guns shooting at your opponents and scoring for kills. You start wth a basic gun, and can earn new guns by playing the game (but it takes a while), or you can buy some of this virtual currency to get a better one right away. In either case the guns are leased, for X amount of time, then you must renew the lease or lose the weapon.

Yesterday the company released the first permanent weapon for the game, it is only available via the virtual currency I mentioned earlier (which you have to buy with real money). The price of the weapon in real money (once converted from virtual currency) is $60 US. Now let me reiterate, that's $60 real dollars for a bunch of pixels in a game.

On the game's forums there was something of an outcry when this price was announced. One of the game company's representatives, came into the forum, and defended the pricing stating that the company's revenue from the game had doubled overnight because of this weapon being sold, and that many people had purchased it.

That is the part that dumbfounded me, people bought it, and are still buying it. Not because its the greatest weapon in the game, but because it just came out, it's the only permanent weapon of any kind and they wanted to have it first.

Sorry for the long and rambling story but I just had to share that. :glasses3:

[Chrysaetos]

There is no root of all evil. We call things evil because we don't like to be in pain, to die, or suffer. Evil is such an absolutist term. I think it's easier to think in terms like 'fruitful' and 'fruitless' (to an individual) ?

If there was no money, people would still have a primary need for food and shelter, and secondary needs like car, computer, chairs etc.
Removing money isn't going to remove the needs of the people.

[Bluegreen]

So here is another question; How does one place a value on something? I have often wondered how it is determined that something like a baseball card could be worth like $5000 dollars or one piece of sushi costing $500 dollars...open thought feel free to elaborate...


Isn't it the degree of desire which places a value on something?

[NightSpirit]

There is no root of all evil. We call things evil because we don't like to be in pain, to die, or suffer. Evil is such an absolutist term. I think it's easier to think in terms like 'fruitful' and 'fruitless' (to an individual) ?

If there was no money, people would still have a primary need for food and shelter, and secondary needs like car, computer, chairs etc.
Removing money isn't going to remove the needs of the people.

Oh you played that up well with the added evil looking character in your avatar to :D

[NightSpirit]

Funny this should come up now.

It really comes down to what the market will bear, or what you think you can get a person to pay. Rarity, exclusivity, exoticism these all increase the perceived value of something.

But sometimes, its just how much you think you can get out of someone that sets the price, and sadly there are a lot of people out there willing to throw away money on extremely frivolous things, just to say they have one, of they have it first. (I don't mean this in any sort of way, just some people are stupid with their money and will throw it away on expensive, pointless items.)

The reason for my saying that it's funny that this is coming up now, is that I have a story about the value of some things:

I play an online game. In this game you can buy virtual currency with real money, then exchange that currency for in game (virtual) items. The game is a shooter, you run around with guns shooting at your opponents and scoring for kills. You start wth a basic gun, and can earn new guns by playing the game (but it takes a while), or you can buy some of this virtual currency to get a better one right away. In either case the guns are leased, for X amount of time, then you must renew the lease or lose the weapon.

Yesterday the company released the first permanent weapon for the game, it is only available via the virtual currency I mentioned earlier (which you have to buy with real money). The price of the weapon in real money (once converted from virtual currency) is $60 US. Now let me reiterate, that's $60 real dollars for a bunch of pixels in a game.

On the game's forums there was something of an outcry when this price was announced. One of the game company's representatives, came into the forum, and defended the pricing stating that the company's revenue from the game had doubled overnight because of this weapon being sold, and that many people had purchased it.

That is the part that dumbfounded me, people bought it, and are still buying it. Not because its the greatest weapon in the game, but because it just came out, it's the only permanent weapon of any kind and they wanted to have it first.

Sorry for the long and rambling story but I just had to share that. :glasses3:

Unbelievable!!!!

[NightSpirit]

I really appreciate everyone's input on this thread.:hug3: The general consensus seems to be that money itself and the pursuit of money, may not be evil but it is the intentions behind the pursuit that can produces evil.

So here is another question; How does one place a value on something? I have often wondered how it is determined that something like a baseball card could be worth like $5000 dollars or one piece of sushi costing $500 dollars...open thought feel free to elaborate...:smile:

Humans see value in everything. We're raised that way. Society has deemed it so. And value is not always money-oriented either. Even here in SF, our members see value in spiritual growth and the like.

On the positive side, we understand the value in water, food and oxygen, among others.

[ete233]

I believe its the LOVE of/for money that is the root of all evil..

[MoonDancer]

Well if everyone wants the same thing and there only so many they are going to fight over it. We use to trade back in the day, but if we all have access to something we could "Trade" of equal value that we all have access to things seem more fair. So, obviously the higher its desire then more people are willing to pay for it. Of course now a days the corporations behind all this just put the prices at the highest believable price so they get more money.

[Thinker108]

I am too late to answer this,Sorry.
No it is not
attachment with money is the evil.
I will explore more in the next post…
Thinker

[Thrare]

Given that evil predates money, absolutely not.

[Greenslade]

Money is nothing more than something we've invented and given power to.

[zipzip]

I also don't agree money is the root of all evil. Unfortunately, we need money to live in our society.

I would say greed is more evil. But truly, what are people greedy for? Money or possessions. lol. You need money to buy your possessions. Goes around and 'round.

But like Scibat was mentioning, we are the silly ones who will pay outrageous amounts of money for something. I was at the mall a few months ago and saw this huge line up close to closing time. These people would have to stay all night in the mall. Why? To be the first to buy some new cell phone that was coming out.

But as for placing value on something, I guess whoever has the most money can place value on it.

zipzip

[Eudaimonist]

...??? All views welcome :smile:

Personally, I think that money, as a medium of exchange, is far better than the barter system, and as such money has led to a great deal of prosperity and self-actualization in the world, and is therefore the root of quite a bit of good, if not all good.

The "love of money" may be the root of some evil if this refers to a willingness to value money over wisdom and virtue. But I believe that one can value money in harmony with wisdom and virtue (for instance treating it as a means and not a goal-in-itself) and so it's not intrinsically bad to desire money.


eudaimonia,

Mark

[perfectstranger]

It's what you make of money. As a business student, we view money as capital. And that means its a tool. It's a tool to make more money.

Rich people don't necessarily flaunt their money and they drive modest cars. And that is because the real money makers are simply talented people. They use their capital wisely, make more capital and contribute to society. Its the people that idiolize money that make it "evil". Its the people that view money as a God and will do anything for it. Than their true evil comes out.

Unfortunate too, because in modern north america, if you pursue money you are perceived as evil/careless/brash or "you don't know what you want".

Oh well, some of us will have it and use it wisely, others will always want it and act irrationally.

[Chrysaetos]

It's what you make of money. As a business student, we view money as capital. And that means its a tool. It's a tool to make more money.

Rich people don't necessarily flaunt their money and they drive modest cars. And that is because the real money makers are simply talented people. They use their capital wisely, make more capital and contribute to society. Its the people that idiolize money that make it "evil". Its the people that view money as a God and will do anything for it. Than their true evil comes out.

Unfortunate too, because in modern north america, if you pursue money you are perceived as evil/careless/brash or "you don't know what you want".

Oh well, some of us will have it and use it wisely, others will always want it and act irrationally.I agree wholeheartedly.

I think it is cultural. We have movies and books that often speak about the heroes who are saving the poor and shouting at the rich. We have Jesus and we have Robin Hood..

Remove money and people will still compete (or fight) over resources. So what is the root anyway? :tongue:

[mattie]

It’s the ➜➜➜ LOVE ↵↵↵ of money that is the problem. Money is a neutral mechanism. It when we get into greed that money is an issue.