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View Full Version : Free will, a blessing or a curse?


peteyzen
23-05-2011, 05:20 PM
Although some may argue the point, I think its fairly evident that we have free will. So my question is this, having free will allows us to act independently, which is great, but it also allows us to behave in ways based on our conditioning and habits, many of which are bad.
Is the spiritual journey ultimately about giving up free will and becoming one with god/everything? If so this presumably means giving up our `individual` free will.
I would love to hear peoples thoughts.
god bless

Sundialed
23-05-2011, 06:09 PM
our free will does many many things for us, lots of good, and bad, but even the bad is holy so no worries. progressive learning and mastering the animal within seems to be a wonderful side effect, if you have what it takes, although all journeys are blessed.

Blaze
24-05-2011, 07:13 AM
Both! As usual!

psychoslice
24-05-2011, 07:24 AM
Well there isn't anyone to give up free will and there isn't anyone to have free will, what you believe to be free will is just a whole big programming and conditioning that you base your free will on. Even if you are living a life as a so called Awakened one, the mind body will still do what it does, any change will just be added programming from the so called experience of Awakening.

TzuJanLi
24-05-2011, 07:54 AM
Greetings..

Well there isn't anyone to give up free will and there isn't anyone to have free will, what you believe to be free will is just a whole big programming and conditioning that you base your free will on. Even if you are living a life as a so called Awakened one, the mind body will still do what it does, any change will just be added programming from the so called experience of Awakening.
You may not care for it, but there are persons, and they enjoy freewill.. they are temporary as physical manifestations, but they do exist and exercise their will on their environment, which exercises back.. and so, they develop a relationship, the individual and its environment, each free to deal with the consequences of its choices, it's plainly obvious..

Story upon story is told about how there's 'no one' that is real.. then, the explanations, the wordplay, the excuses, whatever it takes to convince anyone that what is plainly obvious is not real.. a pointless exercise in futility as if it were actually true, there would be no conversations about it, it would be self-evident.. so, the stories continue..

Be well..

Gem
24-05-2011, 08:16 AM
What happens to be is what is observed to be, so a person is born and a physical interaction between the body and the rest of the universe stimulates sense organs which we become conscious of... but funnily enough, when I stub my toe you have no clue I did that... what does it mean? Nothing! That's just how it is.

psychoslice
24-05-2011, 09:47 AM
Greetings..


You may not care for it, but there are persons, and they enjoy freewill.. they are temporary as physical manifestations, but they do exist and exercise their will on their environment, which exercises back.. and so, they develop a relationship, the individual and its environment, each free to deal with the consequences of its choices, it's plainly obvious..

Story upon story is told about how there's 'no one' that is real.. then, the explanations, the wordplay, the excuses, whatever it takes to convince anyone that what is plainly obvious is not real.. a pointless exercise in futility as if it were actually true, there would be no conversations about it, it would be self-evident.. so, the stories continue..

Be well..
Yes there is so called free will, in that sense, that is in the belief that you are the mind body, and like i said the free will that you believe you have as the mind body is just programming and conditioning. But I have realized that we are not the mind body and I am speaking from there, so take your pick to which you want at the moment your replying or not replying to want I have shared.

peteyzen
25-05-2011, 05:38 PM
but surely in sharing , psycho you are demonstarating free will, a choice to share. And my question is, do you think this ability to act, without constarint, is a good or bad thing?

Jyotir
26-05-2011, 07:18 AM
Hi peteyzen,

Human beings have a limited free will. It is a necessity for physical experience. Blessing or curse depends on what one does with it.

Interestingly, as a result, what we call free-will is often a slavery to ignorance.

What we (as ego identified) are afraid of is surrender to God's Will, because ego views this as sacrificing its freedom.

Yet paradoxically, spiritual Masters who have attained this confluence - surrender to God's Will, describe it as complete and total freedom, yet they also say that consequently they have absolutely no free-will in the 'normal' conception.



~ J

psychoslice
26-05-2011, 07:22 AM
but surely in sharing , psycho you are demonstarating free will, a choice to share. And my question is, do you think this ability to act, without constarint, is a good or bad thing?
No there is no free will in my sharing, it just arises, I didn't plane it it just happened, it also took many years of programming to get me to write this very reply.

Sundialed
26-05-2011, 03:59 PM
Hi peteyzen,

Human beings have a limited free will. It is a necessity for physical experience. Blessing or curse depends on what one does with it.

Interestingly, as a result, what we call free-will is often a slavery to ignorance.

What we (as ego identified) are afraid of is surrender to God's Will, because ego views this as sacrificing its freedom.

Yet paradoxically, spiritual Masters who have attained this confluence - surrender to God's Will, describe it as complete and total freedom, yet they also say that consequently they have absolutely no free-will in the 'normal' conception.



~ J


here is a line from a hip hop song from the arsonists called venom that kind of applies to what you said. good post though, now if only i could heal myself i could spread some white magic over the land!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y3Cj5uCKqj4

IT TENDS TO BURN WHEN YOU'RE TOUCHED BY THE HOLY SPIRIT
PRESENTED WITH THE WORD OF GOD AND YOU DON'T WANNA HEAR IT
YOU CAN'T BE NEAR IT, YOU FEAR IT, IT ALWAYS FOILS YOUR PLANS
YOU DEAL WITH GREED AND ALWAYS FEEDIN' OF THE BLOOD OF MAN

northstar
26-05-2011, 05:09 PM
i'll tackle the second half of the question... (para) does the spiritual quest ultimately give up free will... i have found myself many times asking the question 'what is it you want of me' or 'i turn it over to you... temporarily'...

its more of a give and take for me... here is an example... one of my guides rushed over to me and said 'you are very lucky... they have decided to let you go (with them)'... then a bit later my guardian came to me and said 'you 'can' go (if you choose)... but it may not be quite what you expect'... my answer to them is 'when i get more information, so i can make an informed decision... I will then decide'...

so no... i never give up my free will, except by choice...

northstar
26-05-2011, 05:21 PM
here is a more recent one... but it is not mine... when i release my guides, i release them to follow their own paths... as they are individuals in their own rights... this is not normal... most guides stay with you for life, until you cross over...

so... i am on my third group of guides (teaching goes both ways)... a month passed and my second group... who were being given the teachings of the gods... mostly went on their way... except for one... she saw me struggling with my third group and came to me an said 'i have decided to stay'... giving up her god training, for the moment anyway...

so even in the heavens...

Xan
27-05-2011, 04:48 AM
peteyzen: Although some may argue the point, I think its fairly evident that we have free will.

I agree, peteyzen. Although in the abstract we may theorize there is no free will, in actuality we make choices every day.


Is the spiritual journey ultimately about giving up free will and becoming one with god/everything? If so this presumably means giving up our `individual` free will.

Well if this is what the spiritual journey means, then we would be exercising our individual free will in choosing to give it up. :wink:


As I see it there are 3 levels in regard to free will...

First, we can't actually make free choices as long as we are lead by our conditioning.

When we become aware of how we are merely acting out our programmed identity and habits we can choose differently as our free will becomes active.

Finally, in surrendering into the oneness of our true nature free will once again disappears and we act spontaneously from our true being, without plan or thought (as Psychoslice is describing).


In my view, there is no way we could get free of the delusion that we are merely our conditioned surface, separate identity without the inherent potential of choosing to let it go... free will.


Xan