View Full Version : Freedom from yourself
My own experience is that true freedom lies in being fully aware of yourself as the egoic separate sense of self. When you see this clearly for what it is, then you're home-free.
Here's the quote that stimulated this thread:
How sweet and freeing it feels
to love your own character,
the conditioned ...'me',
even when, especially when
...it is acting out of woundedness, desire
and any form of separation patterning.
A blessed ending
to all things wrong with us.
~ Mags Deane
By: Sangha Heart
oooh, oooh... another great quote:
Jan Brouwer (https://www.facebook.com/jan.brouwer1)
Though we are definitely also a someone, -this very real feeling of I-am-Mary-ness or I-am-John-ness, that we will never lose however hard we'll pray or meditate-, the deepest truth of our life is that we are in fact a nobody. We are a nobody because the deepest level of our being, our Ground, has no specific identity.
i am nobody appearing as somebody
i am the ground appearing as a "something, or a someone"
however personal you want to get :rolleyes:
and our relationships are a natural by-product of our separate appearances... :hug3:
i am nobody appearing as somebody:
How about a nobody and a somebody simultaneously.
Your deepest level of being along with your superficial level of being together as one.
Silver
15-05-2011, 10:21 PM
...My name is Mud???
:wink:
Simon Karlos
15-05-2011, 10:28 PM
How about a nobody and a somebody simultaneously.
Your deepest level of being along with your superficial level of being together as one.
Hi. That would not be "simultaneous." (Only projections can be simultaneous, and the "No-body" is not actually a thing; it is not a projection, being Infinite/Eternal.) The Reality of No-body is timeless, eternal, while the imagined "somebody" is time-bound, illusory. You cannot serve two masters. Eternity, which is Changeless, is always Reality, and anything that appears to move is a projection, the dream.
Eternity is the true Master. When one serves Eternity, it is only then that one has true love and respect for the "somebody." Along the human path, yes, one must first expand their perception of this personal "somebody" before Eternity is realized to be the True IS Reality, but when one does this one is actually serving Eternity.
When one truly serves, one is serving Truth. We can only serve the Non-dual Reality in the apparent "me" and "others," in apparent "somebodies." There is no compromise in the statement, "There is no separation." The superficial doesn't really exist, and cannot touch the "deepest level" of Being. This is why it is called "superficial" to begin with; the very definition essentially means "that which is limited." Limited cannot KNOW Unlimited, my friend. (It takes The One to know The One.) Real and unreal cannot really be joined, because only the Real exists; therefore, there ultimately cannot be an "and" to What Eternally IS.
(When we speak of the illusion, then yes, there can be the apparent experience of both a "deepest level" and a "superficial level," but this is a delusion, a dream, my friend. There are no "levels" to This Which IS.)
So in one sense, din's "I am nobody appearing as somebody" is indeed valid, while ultimately speaking the No-body doesn't actually incarnate nor "appear" as anything, IT-Self being totally beyond all interpretation, concepts, time/space and appearances. "Appearing" is dreaming.
Simon Karlos
16-05-2011, 01:18 AM
"Being" and "Knowing" are synonymous in regards to the above post. One could easily ask, "Who is there to 'be?'" just as the popular Advaita question, "Who is there to 'know?'" Be and Know are One as the Same Reality.
How about a nobody and a somebody simultaneously.
Your deepest level of being along with your superficial level of being together as one.
don't take anything i say as true
because it's never the truth
the truth can't really be spoken of, can't be understood, touched, examined, expressed
It simply Is
deeper levels and superficial levels are just more thoughts arising in It
"Being" and "Knowing" are synonymous in regards to the above post. One could easily ask, "Who is there to 'be?'" just as the popular Advaita question, "Who is there to 'know?'" Be and Know are One as the Same Reality.
Be and Know could also be called presence/awareness, which is simply the aware space that this message is arising in/as, people will spend a lifetime trying to find It, because they think they don't have it or need to find it, but it's the light of their own eyes that they're looking for
Be and Know are One as the Same Reality
which reality?
this one!
the one in which this message and you are apppearing, there is no other, there is not "two" or more realities
heh, heh, couldn't tell that to someone doing LSD :rolleyes:
Hi. That would not be "simultaneous." (Only projections can be simultaneous, and the "No-body" is not actually a thing; it is not a projection, being Infinite/Eternal.) The Reality of No-body is timeless, eternal, while the imagined "somebody" is time-bound, illusory. You cannot serve two masters. Eternity, which is Changeless, is always Reality, and anything that appears to move is a projection, the dream.
Eternity is the true Master. When one serves Eternity, it is only then that one has true love and respect for the "somebody." Along the human path, yes, one must first expand their perception of this personal "somebody" before Eternity is realized to be the True IS Reality, but when one does this one is actually serving Eternity.
When one truly serves, one is serving Truth. We can only serve the Non-dual Reality in the apparent "me" and "others," in apparent "somebodies." There is no compromise in the statement, "There is no separation." The superficial doesn't really exist, and cannot touch the "deepest level" of Being. This is why it is called "superficial" to begin with; the very definition essentially means "that which is limited." Limited cannot KNOW Unlimited, my friend. (It takes The One to know The One.) Real and unreal cannot really be joined, because only the Real exists; therefore, there ultimately cannot be an "and" to What Eternally IS.
(When we speak of the illusion, then yes, there can be the apparent experience of both a "deepest level" and a "superficial level," but this is a delusion, a dream, my friend. There are no "levels" to This Which IS.)
So in one sense, din's "I am nobody appearing as somebody" is indeed valid, while ultimately speaking the No-body doesn't actually incarnate nor "appear" as anything, IT-Self being totally beyond all interpretation, concepts, time/space and appearances. "Appearing" is dreaming.
I'm sure you can see the duality in your own post, in the separation of the somebody and no-body, in the separation of the emptiness from the fullness, it's all just more words and concepts and the thinking perceiving mind will never "get" this, since it's just another appearance in it. And even that's not true because the thinking perceiving mind is just another perception in "this", the awareness/presence here right now.
Simon Karlos
16-05-2011, 04:01 AM
I'm sure you can see the duality in your own post, in the separation of the somebody and no-body, in the separation of the emptiness from the fullness, it's all just more words and concepts and the thinking perceiving mind will never "get" this, since it's just another appearance in it. And even that's not true because the thinking perceiving mind is just another perception in "this", the awareness/presence here right now.
Yes, we know there's always duality in words and concepts. What I actually "see" in my own post is not in the post itself. I, like you, see the meaninglessness of the words and concepts themselves, while intuitively seeing that we're both speaking of--and pointing to--the same Non-dual Truth. I don't really "see" both of anything, nor any such thing as "separation." The second I attempt to separate I am left with no-thing to separate, because I can find no real separation in consciousness, even while using the limitation of words. As far as I am concerned, like you, there's just Is.
Yes, we know there's always duality in words and concepts. What I actually "see" in my own post is not in the post itself. I, like you, see the meaninglessness of the words and concepts themselves, while intuitively seeing that we're both speaking of--and pointing to--the same Non-dual Truth. I don't really "see" both of anything, nor any such thing as "separation." The second I attempt to separate I am left with no-thing to separate, because I can find no real separation in consciousness, even while using the limitation of words. As far as I am concerned, like you, there's just Is.
now you're talking my kind of language! :D
*high five* :tongue:
It takes an unclear mind to see confusion, whereas it takes a clear mind in order to see clarity in the "unclear."
It was a real revelation to me to notice that my mind consisted not just of thought, but of awareness also, and that awareness, that is aware of every thought, has no center, no circumference, no position, no substance, no location, no existence...
it exists by not existing
it simply IS
It's kinda funny really because I see duality as a primal function, and where people seem to equate duality with seperateness it's still very clear that duality is observed (in own words as stated) and despite that observation it is then denied, yet it just keeps on appearing again, as in these words.
Other things are said like 'beyond the mind' which also speaks of the mind and that beyond it (duality).
The questions posed don't seem to be genuine inquiry, they have a strange feel to them, maybe followed by a wink (like 'wink wink nudge nudge say no more'). Statements might have a wink too, so I assume they are addressed to people who are 'in the know'
It'smy social dilema see, I can never ascertain anything so can't really make relevent comment, but duality is right here in front of my face, in these words and yours so I don't pretend it isn't there.
GentleStrength
16-05-2011, 07:56 AM
Some people enjoy being "nobody" and imagining themselves as nothing. Good for them I say.
I personally enjoy being myself and experiencing the unique expression of reality that is mine. Seems to me to be the whole point of creation but to each their own! :D
Love and Light
psychoslice
16-05-2011, 08:41 AM
Some people enjoy being "nobody" and imagining themselves as nothing. Good for them I say.
I personally enjoy being myself and experiencing the unique expression of reality that is mine. Seems to me to be the whole point of creation but to each their own! :D
Love and Light
Good point, I totally agree with you.
It's kinda funny really because I see duality as a primal function, and where people seem to equate duality with seperateness it's still very clear that duality is observed (in own words as stated) and despite that observation it is then denied, yet it just keeps on appearing again, as in these words.
Other things are said like 'beyond the mind' which also speaks of the mind and that beyond it (duality).
The questions posed don't seem to be genuine inquiry, they have a strange feel to them, maybe followed by a wink (like 'wink wink nudge nudge say no more'). Statements might have a wink too, so I assume they are addressed to people who are 'in the know'
It'smy social dilema see, I can never ascertain anything so can't really make relevent comment, but duality is right here in front of my face, in these words and yours so I don't pretend it isn't there.
I would have to disagree with this, duality is not observed, it's actually inferred, by our perceptions/thoughts/beliefs. At least that's my experience.
It's not what I see that's at fault, it's what my mind does with it.
Some people enjoy being "nobody" and imagining themselves as nothing. Good for them I say.
I personally enjoy being myself and experiencing the unique expression of reality that is mine. Seems to me to be the whole point of creation but to each their own! :D
Love and Light
being a somebody or a nobody is still interpretation by the mind
what i like is to see what my mind is up to, so i can have a good laugh at it :D
BlueSky
16-05-2011, 05:09 PM
Do you have children Din? A wife? If you don't mind me asking.
Do you have parents? Friends?
How do you relate to them? As nobodies? Do you laugh at yourself when you feel love for them and equate that to being "just" a thought?
Do you laugh at feelings? Emotions?
Why do you think the workings of the mind are laughable?
I'm just curious...........
James
Do you have children Din? A wife? If you don't mind me asking.
Do you have parents? Friends?
How do you relate to them? As nobodies? Do you laugh at yourself when you feel love for them and equate that to being "just" a thought?
Do you laugh at feelings? Emotions?
Why do you think the workings of the mind are laughable?
I'm just curious...........
James
because they are what they are
they're all conditioned responses
all part of the story of being "me"
Squatchit
16-05-2011, 08:24 PM
Of nine questions by James, you answered one.
Maybe you saw that one question\answer encompassing the whole post?
I do continue to hark on at you because I think you're onto something. But I can't get it yet. So I poke and prod. Hope you don't mind.
I keep coming back for more of your sarcasm and questions in response to my questions. :rolleyes:
BlueSky
16-05-2011, 08:33 PM
Hopefully tomorrow I will read the rest of the answers but I know better that he is not onto something. In fact he worries me, which is why I suppose i keep coming back.
How bout those answers to the other 8 questions Din...one at a time?
Till tomorrow................see ya
James
I would have to disagree with this, duality is not observed, it's actually inferred, by our perceptions/thoughts/beliefs. At least that's my experience.
It's not what I see that's at fault, it's what my mind does with it.
Er ... I'm sure you said you recognized the duality in what is said earlier.
The difference with me is I just see the duality there and am like 'ok there it is'.
Hopefully tomorrow I will read the rest of the answers but I know better that he is not onto something. In fact he worries me, which is why I suppose i keep coming back.
How bout those answers to the other 8 questions Din...one at a time?
Till tomorrow................see ya
James
Sure WS... some things are laughable, some are funny and others are serious... but I'm just stating the obvious
GentleStrength
17-05-2011, 05:35 AM
being a somebody or a nobody is still interpretation by the mind
what i like is to see what my mind is up to, so i can have a good laugh at it :D
If you wish to call it interpretation by the mind that works well enough for me, I definitely still enjoy the reality that I experience through this interpretation.
I believe a more accurate description is that being a somebody or nobody is a perception through the spirit. Mind is just a portion of this experience. :D
Love and Light
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