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Mind's Eye
09-05-2011, 01:20 PM
Dear Muslim folks;

I was wondering if someone could answer a few questions for me about the Muslim faith;


1. What do Muslims believe about Divine healing.

2. A. Do you believe that Allah ever makes some physically ill to teach them a greater lesson?

2. B. Do you believe that Allah wishes to heal all that are ill or suffering with sickness and disease?

3. What do Muslims think about the practice of magick?

4. What do Muslims think about occult practices and meditation?

5. What do Muslims think about energy healing and such practices?

6. What do Muslims think about meditation/divination practices with runes, tarot cards and the like?

7. What do Muslims think about the New Age movement?

I know I have quite a few questions here... and I thank all for any answers they can give.

Peace

Mind's Eye
09-05-2011, 08:29 PM
Any takers?

Lynn
10-05-2011, 01:15 AM
Dear Muslim folks;

I was wondering if someone could answer a few questions for me about the Muslim faith;


Hello,

I am not Muslim but I have a close friend that is and I ran this by him, GENERAL reply only as like all faiths and beleifs there are a lot of variations to them.


1. What do Muslims believe about Divine healing.

Yes while the word "Devine" might not fit. Its called Barakah

2. A. Do you believe that Allah ever makes some physically ill to teach them a greater lesson?

Like all faiths and beleifs that comes down to at times a "personal" feeling to what faith is to the person. No holy being ever seeks to make some ill, too is that possible ?

2. B. Do you believe that Allah wishes to heal all that are ill or suffering with sickness and disease?

Like all faiths and beleifs healing comes from within. What some see as suffering might just be that lesson needing to be learned.


3. What do Muslims think about the practice of magick?

Magick is a very open ended term. So more definition is needed. To some "Healing" is Magick.


4. What do Muslims think about occult practices and meditation?

Here again "Occult" is a very open ended term. The meditation and prayer is often inter mixed in the use. To some faiths a Prayer is a short peom or blessing said, while other's use it in a longer time frame that could be seen as meditation.




5. What do Muslims think about energy healing and such practices?

As answered above it's called Barakah

6. What do Muslims think about meditation/divination practices with runes, tarot cards and the like?

Again here this is a person to person view not in general to the Muslim faith. The cultural backgrounds and where you live can open you to more practices and interests.


7. What do Muslims think about the New Age movement?

Again here a lot comes down to peronal views, and cultrual surroundings and influences. The term New Age Movement too is very open ended in the contect it can mean.


I know I have quite a few questions here... and I thank all for any answers they can give.

Peace



Like all faiths and religions or beliefs a lot can come down to the House of Faith one attends and from there we as people are with Free Will to make life choices that fit with us as well. Unless you are locked away and only school in the one idea then life is pretty open ended. We are all here to expand and grow on our Spiritual Path in life.



Lynn

jiraiyaNOmonogatari
10-05-2011, 09:05 AM
Lynn,

The information you got is incorrect, could you run this by your friend again?

Mind,

I've replied to your PM. :smile:

Mind's Eye
10-05-2011, 01:44 PM
Lynn,

The information you got is incorrect, could you run this by your friend again?

Mind,

I've replied to your PM. :smile:

Hello jiraiyNOmonogatari;..... AND THANK YOU LYNN for that reply.

I have been researching this topic for a little while in a religion comparison to see if the Muslim faith was more tolerable to certain practices that perhaps the Christians and the Jewish faiths.

What I have found actually concurs with what Lynn has said. There is a passage in the Koran that alludes to Solomon doing magic that was unlike that of the wicked angels.. and also Muslims in Swahili practice certain divination and magical rites that are a part of their culture.

What I have found, the information seems to say that the Muslim Faith is much like Christianity; in that what was once tolerated, practiced or permitted has changed with the times and leadership.

jiraiyNOmonogatari, since you are a young man who is studying for mid terms, perhaps what you perceive as incorrect from Lynn's post is because you are coming up in the modern interpretation of the Muslim Faith? I am certainly not knocking your knowledge and wisdom... But to compare how religions change with time, we will look at Christianity where casting lots was a common and accepted practice at one time... and now it is considered to be of the devil. And that is just one example of how practices and belief systems change.

Religions are hard to keep up with and I think that's why many shy away from them. The powers that be change the rules at will and before too long the religion itself is a ghost of what it once was. Not to mention how those changes always seem to dictate that individuals not be their authentic selves in this life.

Just my opinion there guys..... thanks for the replies and perhaps we can keep the dialogue going if you wish.

Blessings

jiraiyaNOmonogatari
10-05-2011, 02:56 PM
Can you please direct me to the passage you mentioned about Solomon?

Mind's Eye
10-05-2011, 04:42 PM
Can you please direct me to the passage you mentioned about Solomon?

I will find it and post it asap.

jiraiyaNOmonogatari
10-05-2011, 04:43 PM
thank you. :smile:

Mind's Eye
10-05-2011, 04:48 PM
Here is an article that i came across about Muslims and magic.. It has the Solomon verse in the article as well.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:GooferMan/Muslim_Magic (http://www.spiritualforums.com/vb/redir.php?link=http%3A%2F%2Fen.wikipedia.org%2Fwik i%2FUser%3AGooferMan%2FMuslim_Magic)

I found it quite interesting.

jiraiyaNOmonogatari
10-05-2011, 07:48 PM
I can see how you've come to such conclusions, but there is a misunderstanding here, I can't explain more now but I will soon, sorry.

Mind's Eye
11-05-2011, 01:30 AM
I will await the reply.

jiraiyaNOmonogatari
20-05-2011, 01:45 PM
hi Mind,

I hope I didn't keep you waiting long. The writer of the link you sent me seems to have some knowledge about Arabic language, I am Egyptian so my first language is Arabic.
I sometimes contemplate about the meaning of some verses, try to understand them by myself, but I do not assert anything through my interpretation, because there are references for Quran interpretation.
That is why misinterpreting verses from the Quran is common when one tries to do that themselves.

Why the Quran needs interpretation is because
the syntax and rhyme of the verses in it is extraordinary, it exceeds all Arabic poetry, there is a saying: "The meaning is in the belly of the poet." it refers to how difficult it is sometimes to understand poetry, much more understand what exceeds it.

There are four references for Quran interpretation.
1- Al-Galalyn.
2- Al-Tabry.
3- Ebn-Katheer.
4- Al-qortuby.

Now regarding the passage about the Prophet Solomon, this is the interpretation from Al-Galalyn abbreviated cuz it would take to much to translate it all. :smile:

102. (http://www.spiritualforums.com/vb/redir.php?link=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.spiritualforums.co m%2Fvb%2Fredir.php%3Flink%3Dhttp%253A%252F%252Fwww .spiritualforums.com%252Fvb%252Fredir.php%253Flink %253Dhttp%25253A%25252F%25252Fwww.spiritualforums. com%25252Fvb%25252Fredir.php%25253Flink%25253Dhttp %2525253A%2525252F%2525252Fwww.spiritualforums.com %2525252Fvb%2525252Fredir.php%2525253Flink%2525253 Dhttp%252525253A%252525252F%252525252Fwww.spiritua lforums.com%252525252Fvb%252525252Fredir.php%25252 5253Flink%252525253Dhttp%25252525253A%25252525252F %25252525252Fwww.spiritualforums.com%25252525252Fv b%25252525252F)They followed what the Shayātīn (devils) gave out (falsely of magic) in the lifetime of Sulaimān (Solomon). Sulaimān did not disbelieve, but the Shayātīn (devils) disbelieved, teaching men magic and such things that came down at Babylon to the two angels, Hārūt and Mārūt, but neither of these two (angels) taught anyone (such things) till they had said, "We are only for trial, so disbelieve not (by learning this magic from us)." And from these (angels) people learn that by which they can separate between a man and his wife, but they could not thus harm anyone except by Allāh’s Leave. And they learn that which harms them and profits them not. And indeed they knew that the buyers of it (magic) would have no share in the Hereafter. And how bad indeed was that for which they sold their ownselves, if they but knew.


-They Followed What the devils gave out: at that time Solomon used to go after the Jinn who use magic, he gathered their books in a box and buried it under his thrown, and no Jinn could draw near it for they would get burned.
When Solomon died a Jinn came in the image of a man and said to the people: Do you wish me to guid you to a great treasure? they said: yes! he said: then dig under the chair. And he went with them to show them its place, then he stepped back, they said: come. he said: no, but here I am amongst you, and if you didn't find it, kill me. So they dug and found the books, and when they got the books out he said: Solomon seized men, Jinn, and birds with this magic. Then he left, and it spread amongst the people that Solomon was a wizard.
(Narrated by Mosa from Al-sadi)

The Prophet Mohamed was talking about Solomon, some people argued with him that Solomon was a wizard, thus this this verse was revealed to relieve these claims from Solomon.

Also the verse does not mention 2 kinds of magic, it clearly states that all the magic they taught was harmful, also you said that some Muslims practice magic...of course some do, but that doesn't make it less forbidden, right?.... oh! and on another note the Quran is the basic rule, in it are many of the laws applied in a Muslim country, so for someone to come up with something new, it will need to concur with/go through several stages to be accepted, and with a certain order, Quran, Sunnah, saying of the companions...etc etc etc, so changing laws in Islam is very difficult, for
example; no muslim can state that magic is kosher unless he proves his claim from the Quran, or the Sunnah, and as this verse explains, magic is forbidden...thus one will not find a contradicting ruling in any reference, and if the are, we take what the Quran says cuz it is the first on the scale or references.(too much details...sorry about that)

He also talks about "Barakah", frankly this is my first time hearing about stuff like this, it doesn't work like that, that's really silly.
I really hope the next time you check info about Islam, you'd find some real references, that guy speaks from his view not the Islamic view, also the Islamic view doesn't necessarily mean a Muslim's view( just FYI).


Hope this helps. :smile:

I'll be happy to answer any of your questions.

silence
23-05-2011, 10:12 PM
hi

well what lynn's friend said was so general and it reflects his background, maybe that is why jiraiyaNOmonogatari thought it is wrong :)

any way, my dear mind's eye,
i hope you will find the truth you are looking for, and I am happy to help you find it in the way you are comfortable with. be sure i won't enforce you to believe in my religion, i'm here to guide only :)

first of all what i could conclude from your posts above is that you are searching for the path of truth through the three holy religions: Judaism, Christianity, and Islam.
Islam is the sum of all the previous religions that is why you will find some similarities between those three religions

jiraiyaNOmonogatari gave a very great, detailed and clarified answer to your question about prophet Solomon. but to give you a more simple answer, Allah gave each prophet miracles. Solomon asked Allah for power and greatness that Allah never gave and will never ever give to any man on earth, and Allah did answer his prayers. So his ability to control genies is not magic, it is a gift from Allah.

Mind's eye if you still wants answers for your former questions just let me know :)

7luminaries
24-05-2011, 06:23 PM
Salaam and Shalom...

I think it would be better, with all due respect, to say that Islam is its own summary of the previous monothestic traditions. But not their summary ;)

Respecting that Muslims may feel this is so, and the others will not agree, but that each person's and each tradition is deserving of its own place and its own standing, equal in the eyes of God and therefore unquestionably it must be so in the eyes of man and woman.

Upon this recognition of the equality of all humankind rests the recognition of the equality of all beliefs in and paths to God/One/All.

And upon recognition of both of the above rests the spiritual fate of humankind.

Just a small but important clarification.
Salaam and Shalom,
7L

silence
24-05-2011, 08:39 PM
7L
you are absolutley right
sorry for the mistaken expression I used :)

Mind's Eye
24-05-2011, 11:05 PM
hi

well what lynn's friend said was so general and it reflects his background, maybe that is why jiraiyaNOmonogatari thought it is wrong :)

any way, my dear mind's eye,
i hope you will find the truth you are looking for, and I am happy to help you find it in the way you are comfortable with. be sure i won't enforce you to believe in my religion, i'm here to guide only :)

first of all what i could conclude from your posts above is that you are searching for the path of truth through the three holy religions: Judaism, Christianity, and Islam.
Islam is the sum of all the previous religions that is why you will find some similarities between those three religions

jiraiyaNOmonogatari gave a very great, detailed and clarified answer to your question about prophet Solomon. but to give you a more simple answer, Allah gave each prophet miracles. Solomon asked Allah for power and greatness that Allah never gave and will never ever give to any man on earth, and Allah did answer his prayers. So his ability to control genies is not magic, it is a gift from Allah.

Mind's eye if you still wants answers for your former questions just let me know :)

Thank you for the invite, however I am on my spiritual path and really would not consider any of the three Middle Eastern religions because of the restrictivness of expression and individual belief. No offence of course, I just find these religions to express the tribal mentality of the time and to me it is very violent, judgemental and restrictive. If God or Allah were truly this way, then it seems that He is a mortal man because of his anger, wrath, jealousy and favoritism of certain tribes or peoples.... It just doesn't ressonate with me. I also do not believe in devils or hell... what God would actually create such things? Again, it just does not ressonate with me.

I was browsing through the koran and found some verses that made me take a second look... I did a bit of research online and found some interesting articles.. I thought for a minute that perhaps Islam was more open minded than the other two religions of the Jews and Christians... But I do suppose that I was mistaken by that notion... again, no offence. I am just not interested in religions that depend upon other men to dictate it to me... I like having a mind that I can use and make choices with, I'm not so thrilled at the prospect of putting it in a box... I did that with Christianity for a time, and boy was that no fun.

Thanks again for the invite though. We can continue to converse if you like however. .... I appreciate everyone's help here..

Peace

jiraiyaNOmonogatari
24-05-2011, 11:34 PM
Thank you for the invite, however I am on my spiritual path and really would not consider any of the three Middle Eastern religions because of the restrictivness of expression and individual belief. No offence of course, I just find these religions to express the tribal mentality of the time and to me it is very violent, judgemental and restrictive. If God or Allah were truly this way, then it seems that He is a mortal man because of his anger, wrath, jealousy and favoritism of certain tribes or peoples.... It just doesn't ressonate with me. I also do not believe in devils or hell... what God would actually create such things? Again, it just does not ressonate with me.

I was browsing through the koran and found some verses that made me take a second look... I did a bit of research online and found some interesting articles.. I thought for a minute that perhaps Islam was more open minded than the other two religions of the Jews and Christians... But I do suppose that I was mistaken by that notion... again, no offence. I am just not interested in religions that depend upon other men to dictate it to me... I like having a mind that I can use and make choices with, I'm not so thrilled at the prospect of putting it in a box... I did that with Christianity for a time, and boy was that no fun.

Thanks again for the invite though. We can continue to converse if you like however. .... I appreciate everyone's help here..

Peace


It's interesting that you'd say that, if you don't mind, can you explain more?

thelastman
25-05-2011, 05:39 AM
Regarding divine healing, you might be interested in this book:

Healing with the Medicine of the Prophet by Imam Ibn Qayyim Al-Jauziyah.

This is about tib-e-nabwi meaning (system of) medicine of the Prophet.

jiraiyaNOmonogatari
25-05-2011, 10:51 AM
Regarding divine healing, you might be interested in this book:

Healing with the Medicine of the Prophet by Imam Ibn Qayyim Al-Jauziyah.

This is about tib-e-nabwi meaning (system of) medicine of the Prophet.

Tib-e-nabawi is divine healing? more like divine knowledge rather than healing...

thelastman
26-05-2011, 07:51 AM
I think it deals with healing. Unfortunately most of the literature related to it is not in English (such as the book "Tib e nabvi: khajur aur shahd se ilaj" meaning treatments in tib-e-nabwi (based on) honey and dates). Also someone did inform me some years ago of a technique to cure stomach ulcer using tib-e-nabwi but he informed me verbally and I have forgotten about it now.

jiraiyaNOmonogatari
26-05-2011, 10:05 AM
I understand, but is that what Mind meant by divine healing?
I think "divine healing" implies something abnormal/supernatural.

Mind's Eye
26-05-2011, 01:08 PM
I understand, but is that what Mind meant by divine healing?
I think "divine healing" implies something abnormal/supernatural.

Yes, Divine healing is when God heals the person through prayer, laying on of hands. meditation etc.

I never understood any religion that teaches that God will make peope sick to test their faith or teach them a lesson.

If human men seek to heal others, why would it be God's will to make people sick... or not his will to heal them? Are we to say that mere man is more compassionate than God? Many religions fall into the ditch with this topic.

thelastman
27-05-2011, 05:49 AM
It is God from whom all bad or good come. The Quran says, "If some good befalls them, they say, This is from God, and if ill befalls them, they say, This is from you. Tell them, All is from God. -4:78"

But this idea of something being good or bad is iteslf based on our understanding which in many cases is limited.

Many times what we feel is suffering is our ignorance of its total ramifications. The Sufi saint Rumi writes about it thus (translated by Ibrahim gamard):

Look at a pea in the pot, how it is leaping upward since
becoming helpless from the fire.

(At) the time of boiling, the pea rises up to the top of the pot
every moment, bringing forth a hundred laments,

Saying, "Why are you killing me with fire? Since you bought
(me), why are you throwing me upside-down?"

The lady of the house keeps stirring with the ladle, saying, "No!
Boil willingly, and don't jump (away) from the fire maker!

"I'm not boiling (you) because you are hated by me, but so that
you may obtain (a delicious) taste and savor,

"(And) so that you may become food and (then) combine with the
vital spirit. This (difficult) trial isn't because of contempt toward
you.

"You were green and fresh, drinking water in the garden.
That sipping of water was for the sake of this fire."

(The reason) for that (is) because His Mercy has preceded (His)
Severity, so that, by means of Mercy, (the pea) may become
worthy of being tried.

His Mercy has (always) had precedence over (His) Severity so
that the assets of existence may be gained.

Because flesh doesn't grow without delicious savor, (and) if it
doesn't grow, what can love for the Beloved melt (away)?

(And) if, because of that urgency, (your flesh) finds (such)
severities so that you (have to) make a sacrifice of those assets (of
existence),

Again, the Grace (of God) will come in order to apologize for
(Severity), saying, "(Now) you have washed [yourself clean of the
body] and have jumped out of the river (of suffering)."

(The lady) says, "O pea, you grazed in the springtime. (And now)
suffering has become your guest, (so) keep him well--

"So that (your) guest may go back (home) expressing gratitude
and may talk about your preferential (hospitality) in the presence
of the King.

"(And) so that, instead of blessings, the Giver of Blessings may
come to you-- (and then) all blessings will bear envy toward you.

"I am (like) Abraham, and you are (like my) son in front of the
knife: lay (down your) head. 'Truly, I see (in a vision) that I
should sacrifice you.'

"Lay (your) head in the presence of (my) severity, (with
your) heart firm and tranquil, so that I may cut your throat like
(that of) Ishmael.

"I will (then) cut (off your) head, but this head is a head which is
free from becoming cut or killed.

"But your submission is the intended goal of the Eternal. O
Muslim, seeking surrender (is what) is needed from you.

"O pea, keep boiling during (this) trial, so that neither existence
nor self may remain to you.

"Although you were laughing in that (worldly) garden, you are
(actually) the rose of the garden of the spirit (and its) eye.

"If you became separated from the garden of water and clay
(and) you have become a morsel (of food), you have entered into
(the bodies of) the living ones.

"Become food, (bodily) strength, and thoughts! (Before) you were
milky sap; (now) become a lion (hunting) in the thickets!

"By God, at first you grew from His Attributes; (now) go back
into His Attributes (with) quick agility!

"You came from clouds, the sun, and the heavens (and) then you
became Attributes and you went (back) up into the heavens.

"You came in the form of rain and sunlight. You will go (back)
into the Attributes of the All-Good.

"You were part of the sun, clouds, and stars. (Now) you will
have become soul, actions, words, and thoughts."

The existence of animals is due to the death of plants. (Therefore),
it was right (to say), "Kill me, my trustworthy companions!"

Because so much is won by us after the checkmate. (Therefore), it
was right (to say), "Truly, in my being killed is (my real) life."

(Your) acts, speech, and sincerity became the food of the angel, so
that by (means of) these he ascended toward the heavens,

In the same way, (when) that meal became the food for man, it
went upward from being a plant and became animate.

As for these words, an ample explanation will be spoken
(about) in another place

jiraiyaNOmonogatari
27-05-2011, 12:26 PM
It is God from whom all bad or good come. The Quran says, "If some good befalls them, they say, This is from God, and if ill befalls them, they say, This is from you. Tell them, All is from God. -4:78"

But this idea of something being good or bad is iteslf based on our understanding which in many cases is limited.

Many times what we feel is suffering is our ignorance of its total ramifications. The Sufi saint Rumi writes about it thus (translated by Ibrahim gamard):
You need to do better than that, I'm not convinced. :sad3:

Mind's Eye
27-05-2011, 12:36 PM
It is God from whom all bad or good come. The Quran says, "If some good befalls them, they say, This is from God, and if ill befalls them, they say, This is from you. Tell them, All is from God. -4:78"

But this idea of something being good or bad is iteslf based on our understanding which in many cases is limited.

Many times what we feel is suffering is our ignorance of its total ramifications. The Sufi saint Rumi writes about it thus (translated by Ibrahim gamard):

There are all kinds of neat little religious sayings and examples of why both Good and bad come from God.. and why God causes suffering to test man.... I don't buy any of them.

thelastman
27-05-2011, 05:21 PM
I honestly believe that it is rarely that someone is convinced of these things by theological statements. My aim was not to convince you but only to state a position I hold. I think if you arent convinced, no problem, you neednt bother. One should seek spiritual growth in whatever manner seems appropriate to himself/herself, as knowledge increases one finds newer ways to look at his previous ideas.

Peace.

Mind's Eye
27-05-2011, 07:51 PM
I honestly believe that it is rarely that someone is convinced of these things by theological statements. My aim was not to convince you but only to state a position I hold. I think if you arent convinced, no problem, you neednt bother. One should seek spiritual growth in whatever manner seems appropriate to himself/herself, as knowledge increases one finds newer ways to look at his previous ideas.

Peace.

I agree with that statement... and thanks for clarifying your position.

When I was a very young child, I had ideas about God and the universe. Very deep thoughts for a child indeed. Then when I got older and had religion thrust upon me, I was told all of my ideas were sinful and evil... I was then taught the exact opposite of what I felt in my heart as a boy.

One of the things I was taught was that God makes people sick for some reason or another. I never believed that as a child.... and over the years as I got back to the roots of who I really am, I just cannot buy into the idea that God causes his children to suffer and have illness.... It just does not ressonate for me at all.

Just sharing my thoughts here....

Thanks again.