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seeingstars
28-04-2011, 04:28 PM
Hey everybody. I haven't been around the forums for more than 5 minutes, but I'm here to declare that I will wake up. Enlightenment.

I'm reading Jed Mckenna's book, Spiritual Enlightenment, and in it he explains a process called spritual autolysis, which is basically when you write out all of your beliefs to dismantle them. I will be going into the ones that hit home as quickly as possible and I hope to have the whole thing up here for everyone to see, because I'm an enneagram 5 and I like hiding.

So here we go.


I'm not good enough for my girlfriend. She's a great seller and she's more motivated than me. She's willing to go outside her comfort zone to such a greater degree than I am and she's into guys that are super motivated, and I'm not.



Analysis: ok so this "blog" is a great arguement that I'm willing to go out of my comfort zone. I'm definitely not comfortable playing the way she is, but its not a question of willing, but able. I really don't know what I'm doing. -> is that true? No. I've seen it done. I've done it. I was on a flight to Georgia and I sold a book on a plane. Fernando Flores, an incredible linguist said that Sales is about as close to life as you can get and Jerry Stocking recommends it as preparation for waking up. So I'm going to sell.


I can't believe how scattered my thoughts are, not wonder I'm here. My apologies for such an awful first post. It'll get good. I promise.

seeingstars
28-04-2011, 04:40 PM
Wow, ok I have to post again. I have to justify writing that I don't see myself as a sexual god. Not thinking that I'm the perfect lover violates the rule that girls only like confident guys. Oh not, what am I doing? I'm making it worse. If I don't correct that, than everyone will know that I'm insecure and people (what people am I thinking of?) will write me off as inconsequential.

If people write me off as inconsequential, I'll die. I'll become the unwanted, undesirable. I'll lose all credibility with everyone. I'll never get a job or write a book, or make any money. I won't be succesful! If people find out I doubt myself, they won't want me to be part of anything.


Oh boy....here comes the rabbit hole.



You need to be successful to be happy. If you don't have an extremely attractive wife/girlfriend and a great job, you're wasting your life - you've squandered your life, because your lazy or stupid or some other reason, but the fact is you no longer matter in the grand scheme of things. You're not contributing or assisting.


and deeper....


I have to keep people down. If they're not motivated and working towards something then I need to make sure they know that they're wasting their life. Oh god help me, I've lost my mind.


Well it's obvious that this can go on forever, or until I wake up. and I will

GSX-R girl
28-04-2011, 09:26 PM
Hi Seeingstars welcome to SF :hug2:

I love Jeds' books - I never quite got the concept of autolysis - I am glad

that it is working for you. :smile:

Simon Karlos
28-04-2011, 10:21 PM
Hey everybody. I haven't been around the forums for more than 5 minutes, but I'm here to declare that I will wake up. Enlightenment.

Great to meet you here. :tongue: Deconstructing thoughts is indeed a very powerful process of cutting to the core beliefs behind them, and beyond these, even, to the silent witness of the mind.

Your enlightenment is not future-tense, my friend. It is not something you "attain" or "become," although your declaration "I will wake up" is truly heartfelt and genuine, and in itself is a true sign of your awakening from the dream. It is the "real-time" present reality of your innermost Being to be Aware, Awake.

You would actually "speed up the process" of your awakening (so it would seem) through clearly seeing the fallacy of "I will" and learning to fully embrace the feeling "I AM." (Affirming "I will" keeps one from fully being awake and aware in the Now.) The only true "will" is not something to happen in any future, but the Divine Will, which is ever-present. Enlightenment is recognition of That-Which-You-Already-Are, beyond name and form. Blessings.

seeingstars
05-05-2011, 01:44 PM
Yea Language is tricky for sure. Dave Dobson an old school hypnotists had a model for the brain in which all of the linear auditory files were stored in the left brain and the visual and kinesthetic were stored in the right, and that it's a misfiling or a misdirection and combination of these that keeps us so patterned.

I'd extrapolate on that and say that it's our internal dialogue that pulls us from the present.

I understand the "I will" needing to be reworked, I notice that I LOVE the concept of "I will" thought, it fills me with self importance. To some degree it's not a claim of the future but a report on the current state of my will. Tricky no? I project momentarily to others something that has nothing to do with what will actually happen in an attempt to garner some approval. Pathetic? Yes. Deep inside I'd like for everyone to like me. I'm an enneagram 5 and the thought of disapproval/disappointment pushed my fear buttons!

If Language is your thing, Jerry Stocking just put up a youtube video on language. I can't post a link to another site yet but his channel is prcourse and the video title is action language.

But onto beliefs,

Sorry so much of this is about my girlfriend, but I have a tremendous amount of hooks when it comes to women.

She talked with someone else today, a mutual friend and business associate of mine. If she talks to him, because he's fun tall and does the same work we do, she's going to feel attraction to him, if she feels attraction to him than she won't associate me with being the object of her desire, and she will no longer want me.

Has anybody been in this same loop? Where you feel as if the minute you lose your partner's attention that you've lost them forever? Or if they're attracted to someone else it means they don't really like you? The whole thing feels like a defense mechanism to isolate me and keep me safe, but who know?

A new line of thought? If she's attracted to someone else then her sexual energy is flowing, if her sexual energy is flowing, she'll want me more, if she wants me more, I'll have more fun with her. That seems true too. A little pathetic because I can't drag her back to my cave and have my way with her, but I imagine that it's time for me to drop the faux-macho **.

After all, it's just a story.

athribiristan
05-05-2011, 02:36 PM
Hey everybody. I haven't been around the forums for more than 5 minutes, but I'm here to declare that I will wake up. Enlightenment.

I'm reading Jed Mckenna's book, Spiritual Enlightenment, and in it he explains a process called spritual autolysis, which is basically when you write out all of your beliefs to dismantle them. I will be going into the ones that hit home as quickly as possible and I hope to have the whole thing up here for everyone to see, because I'm an enneagram 5 and I like hiding.

So here we go.


I'm not good enough for my girlfriend. She's a great seller and she's more motivated than me. She's willing to go outside her comfort zone to such a greater degree than I am and she's into guys that are super motivated, and I'm not.

What exactly makes one human more 'good' than any other?

This is a lie you tell yourself, based on a decision you made about yourself. Learn to accept that we each have somthing beautiful to offer the world and that we show that beauty in different ways.

Analysis: ok so this "blog" is a great arguement that I'm willing to go out of my comfort zone. I'm definitely not comfortable playing the way she is, but its not a question of willing, but able. I really don't know what I'm doing. -> is that true? No. I've seen it done. I've done it. I was on a flight to Georgia and I sold a book on a plane. Fernando Flores, an incredible linguist said that Sales is about as close to life as you can get and Jerry Stocking recommends it as preparation for waking up. So I'm going to sell.

Selling had nothing to do with my awakening. I don't like selling, and I'm glad I never put such limiting thoughts upon myself as the quotes you mentioned above. Enlightenment is about following your own path, not that of others.

I can't believe how scattered my thoughts are, not wonder I'm here. My apologies for such an awful first post. It'll get good. I promise.

Nothing wrong with scattered thoughts. In fact, many of my greatest epiphanies came during just such times.

Love is accepting what is, and forgiving what was. Love yourself.

seeingstars
08-05-2011, 05:35 AM
What makes one human more good than another is their social value. If we're at a party and you are more social and easy going than me, if you treat people better and have a better job that you love because you love it and not because of the money and because you have passion you have a lot of money. If you really love the people in your life and they love you because you're so great, than you are a better person than I am. These are the things I want for myself and since you can do them and I can't you are obviously better than me.

My pattern is to dig in here. I'm arguementative at the moment. I'm fighting for what I think is right. How could I not?

Here's a belief, no one will forgive me if I get mad at them. What if I hate you? I hate people and still want them to like me. I need them to. I don't like that I hate them, but I do. They're coarse, insensitive, indifferent. They hardly consider the repercussions of their actions. I hate them. I hate them. I hate them. I hate them.

A temper tantrum is swelling inside of me, and this is where I'm letting it out, on a forum on the internet. This truly is a new low.

Have you ever just wanted a straight answer from someone who knew what they were talking about? Maybe I was just raised in the 90's and the aftertaste of Nirvana and Nine Inch Nails has left me skeptical and paranoid. Maybe I smoked too much in high school and college. Maybe I should have gotten a 9-5 job instead of spending 3 years holed up in my parents house searching for a passion and wasting YEARS. Maybe I should just sack up and get on with it. Maybe there's no answers here.

Maybe my yearning is just a total waste of time and I'm missing out on the things that make life worthwhile. Maybe it has nothing to do with spirituality or God. Maybe it has nothing do do with God. Maybe it has nothing to do with God.

Things that I like : Girls, Food, Exercise, Learning, Building

If I can fit as much of this into my life as possible, I can some day look back and say I fit as much of this stuff into my life as possible. And there will be a short sweet moment when I realize that I did what I set out to do, and I'll think boy I did what I said I'd do, I could have done something else, but I chose to do what I did.

Why am I so self absorbed? Did I not get enough attention when I was a kid? Too much attention maybe? Am I going to regret posting this? Why am I asking so many questions all of a sudden? Everything has become a question suddenly. Why? Why do people hurt eachother? Why? Why aren't I like everyone else? Why don't I feel for other people?

Why am I about to walk 100 yards to a pond, strip naked and dip when it's so cold outside?

Why do I look for answers outside of me? Why do I trust people to not respond with some trite remark that seems to indicate that they've drank too much of the kool aid.

Love yourself man! Dude I would. I do. I just get ****ed sometimes. Really ****ed at myself. I hate that you have feelings. Not you, me I guess. Why do I have feelings?

Ok, you can forget all the other questions and ramblings, because they were really just about this one question which I'm really curious about, why do we have feelings?

seeingstars
08-05-2011, 05:36 AM
oh blah di oh blah da life goes on ba da da da life goes on

athribiristan
08-05-2011, 03:40 PM
What makes one human more good than another is their social value. If we're at a party and you are more social and easy going than me, if you treat people better and have a better job that you love because you love it and not because of the money and because you have passion you have a lot of money. If you really love the people in your life and they love you because you're so great, than you are a better person than I am. These are the things I want for myself and since you can do them and I can't you are obviously better than me.

Again, this is a lie. There are many things I would like to achieve that I do not. The truth is I'm unemployed living in a run down trailer with my wife and kids and dogs, I can barely afford to put food on the table and my phone is due for shut off in a few days. I lost my house right after I lost my job and I only have a roof over my head because someone found it in their heart to give me a free place to stay. But truly, none of that matters. I am a divine immortal being, who happens to be transitioning to a point where I don't use money any more. What seems like a miserable situation to most people I choose to see as a blessing. What exactly is it that I'm doing better than you??? Simply, I have a better attitude. Nothing more.

My pattern is to dig in here. I'm arguementative at the moment. I'm fighting for what I think is right. How could I not?

That's a natural tendancy. We base our lives on what we think is right. When that is challenged it disrupts our entire sense of self.

Here's a belief, no one will forgive me if I get mad at them. What if I hate you? I hate people and still want them to like me. I need them to. I don't like that I hate them, but I do. They're coarse, insensitive, indifferent. They hardly consider the repercussions of their actions. I hate them. I hate them. I hate them. I hate them.

NO! You hate yourself.

A temper tantrum is swelling inside of me, and this is where I'm letting it out, on a forum on the internet. This truly is a new low.

I disagree. Learning to express yourself is very important. This is perhaps the optimal place to come an do it. There are many loving, supporting people here that will help you.

Have you ever just wanted a straight answer from someone who knew what they were talking about? Maybe I was just raised in the 90's and the aftertaste of Nirvana and Nine Inch Nails has left me skeptical and paranoid. Maybe I smoked too much in high school and college. Maybe I should have gotten a 9-5 job instead of spending 3 years holed up in my parents house searching for a passion and wasting YEARS. Maybe I should just sack up and get on with it. Maybe there's no answers here.

Maybe my yearning is just a total waste of time and I'm missing out on the things that make life worthwhile. Maybe it has nothing to do with spirituality or God. Maybe it has nothing do do with God. Maybe it has nothing to do with God.

Things that I like : Girls, Food, Exercise, Learning, Building

If I can fit as much of this into my life as possible, I can some day look back and say I fit as much of this stuff into my life as possible. And there will be a short sweet moment when I realize that I did what I set out to do, and I'll think boy I did what I said I'd do, I could have done something else, but I chose to do what I did.

Why am I so self absorbed? Did I not get enough attention when I was a kid? Too much attention maybe? Am I going to regret posting this? Why am I asking so many questions all of a sudden? Everything has become a question suddenly. Why? Why do people hurt eachother? Why? Why aren't I like everyone else? Why don't I feel for other people?

Why am I about to walk 100 yards to a pond, strip naked and dip when it's so cold outside?

Why do I look for answers outside of me? Why do I trust people to not respond with some trite remark that seems to indicate that they've drank too much of the kool aid.

Love yourself man! Dude I would. I do. I just get ****ed sometimes. Really ****ed at myself. I hate that you have feelings. Not you, me I guess. Why do I have feelings?

Ok, you can forget all the other questions and ramblings, because they were really just about this one question which I'm really curious about, why do we have feelings?

Our feelings are like another sense. They tell us things about what is happening aroung us. Just like any other sense, too much input gets overwhelming. We can close our eyes and plug our ears but turning a blind eye to our feelings takes a little more practice. I've seen what happens when we turn them off completely and it isn't pretty, just be glad for them and try not to get swept up.

seeingstars
15-05-2011, 02:08 PM
Wow, I don't even want to read that last post. My girlfriend just left after staying for a week and I had a real breakthrough. We were working with a teacher of ours and he guided us in using our attention to open more deeply to each other and our emotions. As I explored my heart, I found an abundance of emotion. I was sitting there crying and feeling so deeply. My attention which is normally so internal (think introvert) was jumping out to her and it was as if I could really see her for the first time. I experienced rage and hurt and deep upset along with joy and pride. This last week I experienced such a deep love for her and just as it was almost too good, she had to leave. I will tell you that spiritual practice has deepened our relationship to an extreme degree and I feel as if I'm about to lose everything I've thought myself to be.

Truly terrifying, but how do you say no to love like this?

Here's a sick though I keep having. I'll be happy when I'm with her. True? Does anyone else have this thought?

unus supra
15-05-2011, 04:01 PM
keep going brother!! dont stop!!

seeingstars
16-05-2011, 01:23 PM
Since my girlfriend left, I've begun putting massive amounts of pressure on myself to excel in work and growth. We're both on a process of waking up and look to the relationship to expand our perceptions of whats possible.

One of the ways we do this is by implementing the Q-Squared model from Jerry Stocking (I'll be talking about him a lot, his relationship stuff is really good). Q-Squared is Quantity and Quality, and one person has to hold each for the relationship to work.

The person who hold QUANTITY takes the position, this relationship HAS ALREADY lasted forever. When a person hold quantity, the relationship is perfect and anything that happens is evidence for that.

The person who holds QUALITY is constantly evaluating the relationship. They are constantly asking themselves "Is this good enough?".

The person who holds QUALITY is the one who decides how often you talk, meet, have sex. They are the one that pushes for a DEEPER QUALITY of relationship. While the partner who holds QUANTITY simultaneously maintains that the relationship has already lasted forever and so provides the space for the partner who holds QUALITY to push the boundaries of the relating.

My girlfriend and I have stopped doing this to some degree. I've taken on an anti-QUANTITY, which is basically thinking that this can't last. And she's taken on an anti-QUALITY, which is whatever happens is okay.

What happens, I think, is that we let our rules hold QUALITY, which is as long as this other person doesn't do something (cheat/lie/hurt me) then I won't leave them (until I get bored).

QUANTITY then gets held by our imaginations - the passive hope that this will last forever, without taking responsibility for it. I'm exaggerating our passivity here, because I think any passivity can potentially become a pattern and I really don't want to let this devolve.

I'd be happy to answer any questions on QUANTITY and QUALITY. I think they have some very nice parallels to the active and passive principles in Hinduism, and YIN-YANG, and probably lots more.

seeingstars
19-05-2011, 10:36 PM
I've been exploring some deeper parts of me and I'm finding that I'm not necessarily happy deep down, in fact emotionally it's turbulent, but it seems like it's just part of the deal of being human.

I'm scared of so many things. Most of the time I can't feel the fear, but I can tell it's there by all the things I don't do. In the past I would push myself to face it, today I'm just curious if it's necessary, and if everyone has it.

athribiristan
20-05-2011, 12:04 AM
Wow, I don't even want to read that last post. My girlfriend just left after staying for a week and I had a real breakthrough. We were working with a teacher of ours and he guided us in using our attention to open more deeply to each other and our emotions. As I explored my heart, I found an abundance of emotion. I was sitting there crying and feeling so deeply. My attention which is normally so internal (think introvert) was jumping out to her and it was as if I could really see her for the first time. I experienced rage and hurt and deep upset along with joy and pride. This last week I experienced such a deep love for her and just as it was almost too good, she had to leave. I will tell you that spiritual practice has deepened our relationship to an extreme degree and I feel as if I'm about to lose everything I've thought myself to be.

Truly terrifying, but how do you say no to love like this?

Here's a sick though I keep having. I'll be happy when I'm with her. True? Does anyone else have this thought?

That may be true, but you can be happy no matter your circumstances or your company. Sounds like you had a wonderful experience. I hope you are feeling better.

seeingstars
20-05-2011, 02:49 PM
I've been exploring some deeper parts of me and I'm finding that I'm not necessarily happy deep down, in fact emotionally it's turbulent, but it seems like it's just part of the deal of being human.

I'm scared of so many things. Most of the time I can't feel the fear, but I can tell it's there by all the things I don't do. In the past I would push myself to face it, today I'm just curious if it's necessary, and if everyone has it.

gentledove
20-05-2011, 04:04 PM
You need to be successful to be happy. If you don't have an extremely attractive wife/girlfriend and a great job, you're wasting your life - you've squandered your life, because your lazy or stupid or some other reason, but the fact is you no longer matter in the grand scheme of things. You're not contributing or assisting.



Since you are observing yourself so carefully, perhaps you can now see that these are values that have been programmed into you and others around you...nothing more. You are a powerful spiritual being with the ability to make choices. You can accept this or you can dismiss it.

If you accept it, you may be relegating yourself to a life of feeling harshly judged by yourself and in addition will feel obligated to judge others based on these criteria.

By the way...I'm not judging you. I've been through the same process. I believed a woman had to be gorgeous and attractive to men to be worth anything. This was the natural outcome of the fact that no one had actually ever recognized or rewarded me for any other quality. I spent so much energy trying to be something other than hideous in this looks=worth competition. I've dismissed these judgments as both arbitrary and dangerous given the number of women who feel worthless, develop eating disorders, and lack all self-assurance based on their body image.

I now know I'm not a body. I'm aware that my worth is intrinsic, was always there and can never be lost. This has helped me have a deep and abiding security and has also freed me from judging others harshly based on superficial criteria.

So you see, I have a choice...you have a choice.

You can look at your prior choices (as you're doing) without judgment. This will give you the greatest power to see clearly whether you want to hold onto those beliefs or replace them.

What you're doing is called a life review and it's a very powerful technique for moving past past conditioning into your own healthier truth. It takes a lot of courage, (yay for you!) so ya...I think your higher self is calling you to move out of the "comfort zone". You're listening to your higher self...this is a very admirable quality.

Sundialed
21-05-2011, 08:17 AM
waking up? hmm tough one, where to start... how about what should we do about all of the children that die from starvation everyday? is this the way it is or can something be done? why help them? you/we are them... do you love yourself? for all of the good and bad of you?

seeingstars
22-05-2011, 01:42 AM
Since you are observing yourself so carefully, perhaps you can now see that these are values that have been programmed into you and others around you...nothing more. You are a powerful spiritual being with the ability to make choices. You can accept this or you can dismiss it.

If you accept it, you may be relegating yourself to a life of feeling harshly judged by yourself and in addition will feel obligated to judge others based on these criteria.

By the way...I'm not judging you. I've been through the same process. I believed a woman had to be gorgeous and attractive to men to be worth anything. This was the natural outcome of the fact that no one had actually ever recognized or rewarded me for any other quality. I spent so much energy trying to be something other than hideous in this looks=worth competition. I've dismissed these judgments as both arbitrary and dangerous given the number of women who feel worthless, develop eating disorders, and lack all self-assurance based on their body image.

I now know I'm not a body. I'm aware that my worth is intrinsic, was always there and can never be lost. This has helped me have a deep and abiding security and has also freed me from judging others harshly based on superficial criteria.

So you see, I have a choice...you have a choice.

You can look at your prior choices (as you're doing) without judgment. This will give you the greatest power to see clearly whether you want to hold onto those beliefs or replace them.

What you're doing is called a life review and it's a very powerful technique for moving past past conditioning into your own healthier truth. It takes a lot of courage, (yay for you!) so ya...I think your higher self is calling you to move out of the "comfort zone". You're listening to your higher self...this is a very admirable quality.

What a touching response. I am not worthy! I agree that the values most of us have adopted sound awful on paper. The part of this that is often overlooked is the uncertainty that arises as we discover that the beliefs that we've leaned on are not fundamentally true. There is a space/time in between beliefs that I think we experience the void of possibilities and our full humanity. What do you think?

gentledove
22-05-2011, 06:21 PM
What a touching response. I am not worthy! I agree that the values most of us have adopted sound awful on paper. The part of this that is often overlooked is the uncertainty that arises as we discover that the beliefs that we've leaned on are not fundamentally true. There is a space/time in between beliefs that I think we experience the void of possibilities and our full humanity. What do you think?

I think this is very insightful and very true. Once you observe how shallow some of these externally conditioned values really are, they begin to lose their "life or death" power. If you haven't replaced them with other values more meaningful to your authentic self yet, there can be a void for a time. I wouldn't judge that, I would just calmly wonder. Experiencing our humanity/humility is a very deeply blessed place to be. :hug3:

seeingstars
25-05-2011, 07:36 PM
A big part of waking up seems to be stretching. Putting ones self in new and exciting possibly unnerving situations. Challenging beliefs in daily acts and risking losing what you believe. So I personally believe that no one will respond here, I request that 5 people respond with anything at all.

Awakening
25-05-2011, 07:56 PM
Five responses?

Isn't it nice to awaken to a different mindset?

Blessings....

Sundialed
26-05-2011, 04:12 PM
A big part of waking up seems to be stretching. Putting ones self in new and exciting possibly unnerving situations. Challenging beliefs in daily acts and risking losing what you believe. So I personally believe that no one will respond here, I request that 5 people respond with anything at all.

challenging your beliefs is one of the reasons why you are here, you have been and will be put through situations that challenge your beliefs for a long time, the more challenged they are, and if they hold, the stronger they become. it's good to be challenged and to remain open to other ideas, heck i know nothing! now there's a knowing