Gay friendly religions?

[Lady Scarletmoon]

I'm looking for a belief system that will not consitantly say i'm going to hell because i'm a lesbian....do u know of any?

[Silver]

I read this earlier but couldn't think of one that I know of, but then I just thought have you tried any of the Unitarian churches? I imagine they'd be a good bet.

[clovelly]

I often participate a Hindi group that has a raja yoga meditation for gay people 1 day a week. Maybe there is one near you.

Good luck,
Love & light xxx

[NightSpirit]

I'm looking for a belief system that will not consitantly say i'm going to hell because i'm a lesbian....do u know of any?

LOL..sorry..but isn't that a gay stigma you're carrying? If you weren't gay would it matter anyway? I'd say, just be yourself and like you for who you are and ignore what others think. :smile:

[Lady Scarletmoon]

LOL..sorry..but isn't that a gay stigma you're carrying? If you weren't gay would it matter anyway? I'd say, just be yourself and like you for who you are and ignore what others think. :smile:
you obviously don't know Utah...(where i live currently)try being gay there then tell me that :p

[Shim]

Have you tried entering into a class with an outlook of wanting to learn something new? Or are you wanting to go into a class having them tell you what you already know?

[NightSpirit]

you obviously don't know Utah...(where i live currently)try being gay there then tell me that :p

no i dont know utah. I'm not sure how geography plays a role in it? What choices you make for your own life are your own business and no one else's. If its a gay-bashing place then they are just small-minded people. So can you move?

[Lady Scarletmoon]

Sadly not.... :p i still live with my mom
And more than half the utah population is Mormon, so yes it is a gay bashing state

[Shim]

Ahh and the unitarian church is too a cult. I would recommend walking into any church, that is a denomination of Christianity, and before attending a service seek a meeting with an elder or eg., pastor, and talk about your issues. Let's hold all prejudices aside, and remember that the church is patient while one seeks to find their sexual identity.

[NightSpirit]

Ah..so now i see from your profile you're very young and like most you're age, haven't yet established your feet on the earth or made any final decisions on anything. I'll be betting you will change ideas continually while deciding who you are in the world...gay one minute, straight the next....bi tomorrow and no one next week. Its part of the hormone havoc.

Regardless, whatever choices you decide on in life will never meet everyone's approval, so you will learn over time to toughen your hide and let it all bounce off.

Cheers

[Silver]

I hear what you say about Utah, but in the U.S. surely even in Utah there is a church that accepts those with alternative lifestyle...but shim has a point ~ calling and/or talking to an elder or minister etc. will help narrow the search. If you can't move, what choice do you have?

[Lady Scarletmoon]

Ah..so now i see from your profile you're very young and like most you're age, haven't yet established your feet on the earth or made any final decisions on anything. I'll be betting you will change ideas continually while deciding who you are in the world...gay one minute, straight the next....bi tomorrow and no one next week. Its part of the hormone havoc.

Regardless, whatever choices you decide on in life will never meet everyone's approval, so you will learn over time to toughen your hide and let it all bounce off.

Cheers

hehehe maybe......:(

[Lady Scarletmoon]

Ahh and the unitarian church is too a cult. I would recommend walking into any church, that is a denomination of Christianity, and before attending a service seek a meeting with an elder or eg., pastor, and talk about your issues. Let's hold all prejudices aside, and remember that the church is patient while one seeks to find their sexual identity.
Very true! :D
Do u know any denominations that are good, Shim?

[Shim]

Very true! :D
Do u know any denominations that are good, Shim?

Well, I'll recommend mine, here's a link, use the locator to find a church to one closest to you. I hope there is one. We are denomination free, as we believe that denominations should not separate us and cause a division within the body of Christ. Calvary (http://www.calvarychapel.com/)

[AngelBreeze]

I'm looking for a belief system that will not consitantly say i'm going to hell because i'm a lesbian....do u know of any?

Greetings Lady Scarletmoon,

Because I believe that everybody needs to have a religion or church that they can worship at, and because God calls each person individually to worship in a place where there should be no undue tension or stress, I have researched this matter and have found at least two churches (not just belief systems) out of many more that appear to be accepting of a different orientation or lifestyle.

I have always believed that it is promiscuity that one needs to be especially aware of and avoid no matter what their lifestyle or orientation be it Gay, Straight, Bisexual, TS, etc.

So, if you feel the call to worship God, then who on earth should disallow it! May God Bless You!

Metropolitan Community Church (this church has chapters in most parts of the U.S.A.) http://www.mccsf.org/

This is another church, but different from the above, to consider: http://lifejourneychurch.cc/

Deus tecum and my special wishes for many blessings and a beautiful day!

I Am Sending You Many Hugs With Much Love and Pure Light,
(\o/) AngelBreeze (\o/)

[psychoslice]

Try to steer away from Christianity and you should be right, I don't like organised religion myself so I would recommend something like Buddhism, this probably would suite you more and I believe that you would be much happier for it, good luck.:hug:

[Lady Scarletmoon]

:hug3: thank u all, i've never felt so much spiritual love, maybe it's time to actualy read my Bible :)

[Shim]

:hug3: thank u all, i've never felt so much spiritual love, maybe it's time to actualy read my Bible :)

From cover to cover.... enjoy :D

[white_monarch]

If you're partial to Christianity, then the Episcopal church is open and welcoming to the gay community.

[AngelBreeze]

:hug3: thank u all, i've never felt so much spiritual love, maybe it's time to actualy read my Bible :)

Great thinking, Scarletmoon! May you be blessed for your efforts!

Deus tecum and my special wishes for many blessings and a beautiful day!

I Am Sending You Many Hugs With Much Love and Pure Light,
(\o/) AngelBreeze (\o/)

[theophilus]

I'm looking for a belief system that will not consitantly say i'm going to hell because i'm a lesbian....do u know of any?There are many religions that won't warn you that you are in danger of going to hell, but it wouldn't be accurate to describe any of them as "gay friendly".

One quality of a friend is that he will warn you if you are doing something that will lead to your being harmed and will show you how to escape the consequences of your past actions. In your case, Christianity can do both of those things. If you read the Bible you will learn that the practice of sex between members of the same sex is a sin but that like any other sin it can be forgiven is you will turn from it and put your faith in Jesus Christ. Here are two sites where you can learn more about this subject:

http://www.strengthinweakness.org/ (http://www.spiritualforums.com/vb/redir.php?link=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.strengthinweakness .org%2F)

http://exodusinternational.org/ (http://www.spiritualforums.com/vb/redir.php?link=http%3A%2F%2Fexodusinternational.or g%2F)

[agiosotheos]

I'm looking for a belief system that will not consitantly say i'm going to hell because i'm a lesbian....do u know of any?

That would be the case with most belief systems.

[agiosotheos]

From cover to cover.... enjoy :D

I don't think that's always a great recommendation. The OT can appear quite crazy without the illumination of the Gospels.

[Tink]

In my very humble opinion it shouldn't matter what sexual orientation you are, your beliefs are sacred and belong to you. So therefore you should be able to believe/not believe in any thing you want regardless of what gender you choose to have as your partner :D :hug3:

[Shim]

I don't think that's always a great recommendation. The OT can appear quite crazy without the illumination of the Gospels.

Why do you think that I said from cover to cover? And I would also add that I don't think it is a great recommendation either without the supervision of an elder or pastor, and without the fellowship of other Christians.

[Ciqala]

I agree with Tink exactly.

Well, i know native american belief system, has very respected views on gay people, and all gender related sexualities, and they are seen as two spirited, and are believed for that reason to hold the abilities of spiritual power, and balance of masculine and feminine spirit that which straight people do not have, there are many mechanisms and beliefs around that which are very positive and respected. You can easily become a part of native spirituality if you find the resources, the spiritual part of that culture, is not judgemental upon "must be native race to believe this".
In many ancient cultures in fact that are still alive to this day, those belief systems do not hate on gay people, in fact revere them, you have many options to look for.

In all, when searching for a belief system in general, i would advise to believe in what you believe in your heart. It is fine to want to belong to something ordered - but spirituality in itself, and all belief systems are the same in the end, and intertwined and connected on a whole. You can easily make your own beliefs out of your own beliefs and personal experiences, which is a lot better than following what is preached to you, it is a good thing to resonate with your beliefs.
So research if you may, find the parts that you believe in your heart and go on your spiritual and faith journey from there. You do not necessarily have to belong to a church or organized system, you can easily delve into as many belief systems as you want, attend spiritual groups, meditation groups of all kinds. Just because you have a problem with one part of one that does not include gay people, doesn't mean you can't belong to it, and just exclude that part, faith is what you believe, don't worry what everyone else believes.

[agiosotheos]

Why do you think that I said from cover to cover?

I don't know. That's what I am trying to figure out.

[AngelBreeze]

There are many religions that won't warn you that you are in danger of going to hell, but it wouldn't be accurate to describe any of them as "gay friendly".

One quality of a friend is that he will warn you if you are doing something that will lead to your being harmed and will show you how to escape the consequences of your past actions. In your case, Christianity can do both of those things. If you read the Bible you will learn that the practice of sex between members of the same sex is a sin but that like any other sin it can be forgiven is you will turn from it and put your faith in Jesus Christ. Here are two sites where you can learn more about this subject:

http://www.strengthinweakness.org/ (http://www.spiritualforums.com/vb/redir.php?link=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.strengthinweakness .org%2F)

http://exodusinternational.org/ (http://www.spiritualforums.com/vb/redir.php?link=http%3A%2F%2Fexodusinternational.or g%2F)

Greetings Theophilus,

It is important to note NEW information about the latter organization that you have listed here.

Please visit the following two websites for more on this! And the Rabbi's comments on the second website is real food for thought.

http://pomomusings.com/2007/07/11/former-exodus-international-apologize-for-ministrys-harm/

http://news.change.org/stories/rabbi-says-apple-has-moral-responsibility-to-pull-gay-cure-app?amp

Deus tecum and my special wishes for many blessings and a beautiful day!

I Am Sending You Many Hugs With Much Love and Pure Light,
(\o/) AngelBreeze (\o/)

[Internal Queries]

There are many religions that won't warn you that you are in danger of going to hell, but it wouldn't be accurate to describe any of them as "gay friendly".

One quality of a friend is that he will warn you if you are doing something that will lead to your being harmed and will show you how to escape the consequences of your past actions. In your case, Christianity can do both of those things. If you read the Bible you will learn that the practice of sex between members of the same sex is a sin but that like any other sin it can be forgiven is you will turn from it and put your faith in Jesus Christ. Here are two sites where you can learn more about this subject:

http://www.strengthinweakness.org/ (http://www.spiritualforums.com/vb/redir.php?link=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.strengthinweakness .org%2F)

http://exodusinternational.org/ (http://www.spiritualforums.com/vb/redir.php?link=http%3A%2F%2Fexodusinternational.or g%2F)


sheesh! as if the OP hasn't already heard or read the homophobic edicts of the Bible. obviously she has or she wouldn't be asking where she can go and be accepted for who she is.

[AngelBreeze]

In my very humble opinion it shouldn't matter what sexual orientation you are, your beliefs are sacred and belong to you. So therefore you should be able to believe/not believe in any thing you want regardless of what gender you choose to have as your partner :D :hug3:

Warm greetings, Tink!

Yes! When God calls someone, it is that person's individual right to respond without outside interference from anyone, and I mean anyone. I am curious to know if you have visited the following two sites included in this response. They contain vastly different information that may surprise MANY! They are also not too long to read.

What do you think of THIS latest development if I may ask? Thank you in advance.

http://www.spiritualforums.com/vb/showpost.php?p=184806&postcount=28

Deus tecum and my special wishes for many blessings and a beautiful day! :hug:

I Am Sending You Many Hugs With Much Love and Pure Light,
(\o/) AngelBreeze (\o/)

[daisy]

I'm looking for a belief system that will not consitantly say i'm going to hell because i'm a lesbian....do u know of any?
Why conform to what any religion wants, why not have your own path, it doesn't need a name or a church or 'rules' and also allows you to be you.

[daisy]

Just to add, you don't need to be religious to have or believe in a god:)

[theophilus]

Why conform to what any religion wants, why not have your own path, it doesn't need a name or a church or 'rules' and also allows you to be you.
Just to add, you don't need to be religious to have or believe in a god:)But if there is a God, isn't it essential that we know this and that we know how he wants us to live? If God created us then we belong to him and have a resposibility to follow whatever path he has established for us.

[Internal Queries]

But if there is a God, isn't it essential that we know this and that we know how he wants us to live? If God created us then we belong to him and have a resposibility to follow whatever path he has established for us.


isn't it rather arrogant to assume one can know which of the thousands of human god concepts is the "right" one? or that any of the human concocted deities are accurate portrayals of "God"? and wouldn't individuals have individual paths?

[AngelBreeze]

Greetings ALL,

Since an organization was brought up by Theophilus in relation to what is being discussed here, what I would like to see is your opinion on what the news reports have brought out about the three former leaders (including one co-founder) of Exodus International who according to the reports said the ministry caused Gays and Lesbians harm to include some quite serious health issues.

So, knowing that, from those who worked directly with that organization, I can't imagine anyone suggesting to another, as was apparently done to the original posting party who was asking for a belief system or religion with which to worship that they instead be redirected to this place with what the former leaders have brought out. I believe that to be very insensitive and ill thought out and am concerned in light of what the ex-leaders had to say. Since God created everyone, when God calls them to worship, they should feel free to go to the church of their choice without undue badgering.

There are many people of all ages today, we have learned through the media, who are being badgered in schools, attacked in streets, killed, and some even driven to suicide, as in the younger folks, because of their sexual orientation that my heart goes out to them and one simply cannot continue in the vein of telling them they are not welcomed at home or elsewhere. To those who are particularly impressionable, that could cause some rather tragic consequences if they were to take that kind of opinion seriously. But the biggest factor in this is that there is no place in the Holy Bible that I have found where Jesus Christ specifically targets Gay and Lesbian people and condemns them for their lifestyle. That has weighed much in the way I now view things since it is by the Blood of Jesus that we are Saved. Other passages that attempt to marginalize those of a same-sex lifestyle have also been proven to be speaking about something entirely different and not germane to the subject at hand. And if He, whom The Father has sent to Earth does not condemn these people, who can claim greater authority to do so I would ask.

Again, I will say that when a person is called in their heart to worship God, instead of helping them to find a church where God welcomes ALL, they instead don't mind sending them to a place that tries to change people from a homosexual lifestyle despite what those who formerly led that organization had to say is mind boggling and being that it is a serious issue, I would like to understand why anyone would recommend a place that could be potentially harmful to them according to those who worked there? I would therefore like to ask Theophilus if he was not aware of this and other similar stories that are out in the Internet, media, etc. before posting that link? And if you were, why would you still post it is what I'm trying to understand? The lady who originally posted her message here was apparently only looking for a place to worship and nothing else.

http://pomomusings.com/2007/07/11/former-exodus-international-apologize-for-ministrys-harm/

And then there's the story of the president of Parents, Families and Friends of Lesbians and Gays, who is a Rabbi, being against an app. that could be considered not APP-ropriate for the targeted audience. http://news.change.org/stories/rabbi-says-apple-has-moral-responsibility-to-pull-gay-cure-app?amp

Any opinions on that?

Deus tecum and my special wishes for many blessings and a beautiful day!

I Am Sending You Many Hugs With Much Love and Pure Light,
(\o/) AngelBreeze (\o/)

[Mind's Eye]

isn't it rather arrogant to assume one can know which of the thousands of human god concepts is the "right" one? or that any of the human concocted deities are accurate portrayals of "God"? and wouldn't individuals have individual paths?
I would a agree.. By saying we have a "Responsibility" to know how God "Wants us to Live" .. it immediately kicks in the fear and stress factor of another human being. It is a great lead in to tell someone that God considers them a hell bound sinner because of their sexual preference.. and then slowly begin to mold their mind because you have softened their will with feelings of dread.

Then once the virus of religious fear has taken more root within the mind of the individual, they will accept whatever God you are selling... and bingo, you've won another convert for the Kingdom.

How about just presenting your belief in an essay that is not filled with mind bending, will withering key words that work directly on the subconscious... and just let the reader/seeker decide if what you wish to offer resonates with them or not.

[Sungirl]

paganism welcomes anyone... however you are better finding a belief system that sits well with you and just hold the knowing that you are as [insert name of higher power] made you and perfect as you are.

[mac]

I'm looking for a belief system that will not consitantly say i'm going to hell because i'm a lesbian....do u know of any?
Is it only a belief system that you're wanting, a church to attend where being gay is accepted? Is that what you're looking for or is it to understand what life's about, rather than what the church tells you to believe?

As long as you're tied to the Bible teachings of mainstream churches I fear you'll face a constant struggle because of what's written there. When I'm in the USA mainstream religion makes me feel almost like I'm in the Dark Ages.

My own religion pays no heed to either Biblical writings or to the dogma of mainstream churches - but that's in the UK. Homosexuality or lesbianism has no importance in my own because only love counts - and that's not governed by sexual orientation which is purely an issue of our physical dimension.

[Sarian]

I agree with Daisy. Why would you want or need a religion anyway. god is all around you. Don't need to conform to man's sets of rules. the best thing you can do for yourself is free yourself from the shackles of religions. But if you feel the need or desire to fellowship with people, perhaps you should check around. Sometimes i wish I could find a place that just had spiritual people with no religion tied to them, and I did a search on the internet and found a place that looks pretty cool. I never ended up going at all. I think I was afraid I'd just find more religion or rules and regulations again...sigh. Accept yourself, love yourself and I think thinks will all fall into place for you.

[athribiristan]

I'm looking for a belief system that will not consitantly say i'm going to hell because i'm a lesbian....do u know of any?

I heard about this guy who says he is a divine immortal being and that everyone is perfect exactly how they are. You might give that a try.


Oh wait, that was me. Um....yes, I do know of a belief system that fits your requirements. In fact I don't even believe in hell except as a state of mind. Accept your own divinity and you can stop looking for it elsewhere.

[earth2bella]

Yes, I know of one, it's called your own. Nobody can tell you where you are going and for whatever reason. Only you can, if you believe in it. A 'belief' system' can be your own, and not have to be defined by as a government certified religion or 'best-selling' new age philosophy. Listen to your heart :)

I'm looking for a belief system that will not consitantly say i'm going to hell because i'm a lesbian....do u know of any?

[breath]

There are many religions that won't warn you that you are in danger of going to hell, but it wouldn't be accurate to describe any of them as "gay friendly".

One quality of a friend is that he will warn you if you are doing something that will lead to your being harmed and will show you how to escape the consequences of your past actions. In your case, Christianity can do both of those things. If you read the Bible you will learn that the practice of sex between members of the same sex is a sin but that like any other sin it can be forgiven is you will turn from it and put your faith in Jesus Christ. Here are two sites where you can learn more about this subject:



Are you serious?.. lol

Okay, Originally writer of this thread. Stay away from Abrahamic religions. Taoism doesn't give even the slightest **** if your gay/straight/up/down/left/right... Basically the best religions work around the natural events of reality, they don't say some events are wrong and some are right like christianity (the worst religion that has ever existed) tries to. So basically, stay away from abrahamic religions - islam, christianity, catholicism, etc. Stick to vedic type religions, taoism, hinduism, buddhism(where all sexualities including straight are considered to inhibit enlightenment) and Asatru... Pagany religions are probably cool with it too, and probably advise it just to be different from christianity.

[Triner]

Are you serious?.. lol
Unfortunately, I think he is. :icon_frown:

...Pagany religions are probably cool with it too, and probably advise it just to be different from christianity.
Yes, they are. They don't really have view on it. It's "Do as you will, but harm no others". AFAIK, it's nothing to to with being different from Christianity.

[theophilus]

Since God created everyone, when God calls them to worship, they should feel free to go to the church of their choice without undue badgering.Since God created us the has the right to tell us how we should live and how we should worship him. True worship requires that we submit to God's will in all areas of our lives, including our sexual practices.

In discussing homosexuality it is important to recognize the difference between homosexual orientation and homosexual practice. One of the consequences of Adam's disobedience is that the human race has fallen into an imperfect state in which all of us desire things that are against God's will. In some people, this takes the form of being sexually attracted to others of the same sex. Having these desires isn't a sin but a temptation. We must choose whether or not to yield to them.


There are many people of all ages today, we have learned through the media, who are being badgered in schools, attacked in streets, killed, and some even driven to suicide, as in the younger folks, because of their sexual orientation that my heart goes out to them and one simply cannot continue in the vein of telling them they are not welcomed at home or elsewhere. I agree that this sort of thing is wrong and we should do our best to prevent it. But it is irrelevant to the question of whether homosexual practice is wrong.



But the biggest factor in this is that there is no place in the Holy Bible that I have found where Jesus Christ specifically targets Gay and Lesbian people and condemns them for their lifestyle. He never addressed this specific question because he was living in a culture where everyone already knew that a homosexual lifestyle was wrong. But he did teach some things that apply to this subject.And Pharisees came up to him and tested him by asking, “Is it lawful to divorce one's wife for any cause?” He answered, “Have you not read that he who created them from the beginning made them male and female, and said, ‘Therefore a man shall leave his father and his mother and hold fast to his wife, and the two shall become one flesh’?
(Matthew 19:3-5 ESV)


He clearly taught that marriage is a union between a man and a woman. There is one other thing he said that is applicable to this subject:I have not come to call the righteous but sinners to repentance.
(Luke 5:32 ESV)


He came to save all people, including those who are living in homosexual lifestyles, but he came to save them from their sins, not to enable them to continue in them.

I would therefore like to ask Theophilus if he was not aware of this and other similar stories that are out in the Internet, media, etc. before posting that link? And if you were, why would you still post it is what I'm trying to understand? The lady who originally posted her message here was apparently only looking for a place to worship and nothing else. I was aware of the fact that the organization had been the subject of accustions of causing harm but that happens to everyone who tries to uphold God's standards of righteousness. But even if this particular organization is at fault, that doesn't change what the Bible teaches about the subject.

If you object to that site, here are two others where you can find useful information about this subject:

http://narth.com/ (http://www.spiritualforums.com/vb/redir.php?link=http%3A%2F%2Fnarth.com%2F)

http://pfox.org/default.html (http://www.spiritualforums.com/vb/redir.php?link=http%3A%2F%2Fpfox.org%2Fdefault.htm l)

[AngelBreeze]

Since God created us the has the right to tell us how we should live and how we should worship him. True worship requires that we submit to God's will in all areas of our lives, including our sexual practices.

Greetings Theophilus,

Yes, God did create us and we are in agreement with that. And God indeed does issue certain Commandments with which to pattern our life. However, the specific issue of same-sex relationships is not mentioned in His Commandments. His Seventh Commandment, "Thou Shalt Not Commit Adultery." speaks to the unfaithfulness of married people. But I'm sure you are against Gay Marriage therefore, this would not apply to Gays and Lesbians in your opinion I'm sure. The only other Commandment that might possibly speak to sexuality is the Tenth Commandment "Thou Shalt Not Covet Anything That is Thy Neighbors." This could well speak to promiscuity in relation to coveting a neighbor's wife or husband. But again, it could be in regards to promiscuity, not homosexuality.

And while people have God's guidance always on how to live their life and that is very good, He also gave everyone free will choice. That being said, there are consequences to the way life is lived as I have said before. However, as it applies to this particular situation, the SIN is clearly in promiscuity. This is something I have also spoken about previously. The 'Sin' is not in the sexual orientation of a person because it is inherent which is also an embraced belief by the most knowledgeable people with doctorates known today. But indeed Jesus did not abhor this nor did He speak against it perhaps due to the fact that He is the Son of God therefore, knew the origin of this lifestyle and that people cannot help being born the way they are.

In discussing homosexuality it is important to recognize the difference between homosexual orientation and homosexual practice. One of the consequences of Adam's disobedience is that the human race has fallen into an imperfect state in which all of us desire things that are against God's will. In some people, this takes the form of being sexually attracted to others of the same sex. Having these desires isn't a sin but a temptation. We must choose whether or not to yield to them.

Yielding to them involves temptation with regards to promiscuity. However, sexual attraction to other people is also inherent. It has been brought out that humanity is basically bi-sexual, perhaps due to the Adam and Eve and the rib thing. Some may gravitate towards one side while others may polarize themselves into the opposite side, yet many others prefer to stay right in the middle where they are embracing the best of both worlds. This is according to reports and studies that are out. I cannot judge anyone, therefore, whether I believe this to be right or wrong is indifferent because God will judge ALL according to their individual merits. I enter into discussions such as these due to some people's inept attempts to disenfranchise a group of people who were born with a certain genetic structure and characteristic such as to be attracted to those whom some of their peers may not be able to relate to.

AngelBreeze previously commented: "There are many people of all ages today, we have learned through the media, who are being badgered in schools, attacked in streets, killed, and some even driven to suicide, as in the younger folks, because of their sexual orientation that my heart goes out to them and one simply cannot continue in the vein of telling them they are not welcomed at home or elsewhere."

Theophilus responded:

I agree that this sort of thing is wrong and we should do our best to prevent it. But it is irrelevant to the question of whether homosexual practice is wrong.

I don't see how it could come any closer.

He never addressed this specific question because he was living in a culture where everyone already knew that a homosexual lifestyle was wrong. But he did teach some things that apply to this subject.And Pharisees came up to him and tested him by asking, “Is it lawful to divorce one's wife for any cause?” He answered, “Have you not read that he who created them from the beginning made them male and female, and said, ‘Therefore a man shall leave his father and his mother and hold fast to his wife, and the two shall become one flesh’?
(Matthew 19:3-5 ESV)

Yes, Jesus may have indeed said that, however, He was speaking to procreation here. He did not speak to or address those who are born with a same-sex attraction or whether it was specifically right or wrong to practice what their biological needs call for.

He clearly taught that marriage is a union between a man and a woman. There is one other thing he said that is applicable to this subject:I have not come to call the righteous but sinners to repentance.
(Luke 5:32 ESV)

When one is already born with a Heterosexual foundation, yes, that may be applicable that a marriage would be between a man and a woman. In your example, Luke 5:32, the question of Jesus eating with publicans and sinners is brought up. But that is a far cry from trying to denote this passage as addressing any question in regards to homosexuality especially when there were so many other prohibitions in that day and age.


He came to save all people, including those who are living in homosexual lifestyles, but he came to save them from their sins, not to enable them to continue in them.

We see that example in the case of Mary Magdalene who was accused of adultery. He drove seven devils out of her and then told her to "Go and Sin No More." However, that was clearly a case of a woman engaged in adultery, something that can be helped and stopped on its own because it is a clear choice. In the case of homosexual persons, it is not the same in that those who are of a homosexual orientation are more than likely born that way therefore cannot help their inherent drive of affection. The key here is in whether either heterosexual or homosexual people would engage in promiscuity. That is what is truly sinful, not that a person is born homosexual or heterosexual. It is what they do with their bodies in both cases, so let's not just pick and choose one sexual orientation to gleefully stick pins into. And while some men cannot agree on the origins of homosexuality, it is best not to become accusatory in any instance by inferring a downward spiral upon those who may be of that orientation. Therefore, it is best to err on the side of caution and not belittle or try to change those whom God has created, people that they do not fully understand.

Further, in Luke 5:36 (KJV), Jesus speaks "And He spake also a parable unto them, No man putteth a piece of a new garment, upon an old; if otherwise, then both the new maketh a rent, and the piece that was taken out of the new agreeth not with the old."

This has been spoken of as well as applying to trying to change one from one oriented lifestyle into another. The word "rent" means 'to tear'. Therefore, if one was to try to make a heterosexual person into a homosexual, it would not work so well at all (unless they used their free will choice.) Likewise, to try to change a homosexual person into a heterosexual one would make a 'rent' in their composure such as to cause the new (making them into something they are not) to not agree with the old (their inherent orientation.) Therefore, the following passage also seems to apply. "And no man putteth new wine into old bottles; else the new wine will burst the bottles, and be spilled, and the bottle shall perish." -- LUKE 5:37 (KJV) It is thus most difficult to try to "re-mold" a person into something you would like for them to be when they are inherently not born to be that person for it would only serve to " .... burst the bottles," so to speak.

The following is Theophilus' response in reference to dialogue about Exodus International.

I was aware of the fact that the organization had been the subject of accustions of causing harm but that happens to everyone who tries to uphold God's standards of righteousness. But even if this particular organization is at fault, that doesn't change what the Bible teaches about the subject.

Then by that same token you would more than likely be one to uphold the principles of the Westboro Baptist Church it would appear, though that organization has caused much grief and discord due to their extremist views according to many news sources. As to the Bible teaching on this subject, there can be no doubt that God well knows why each person is born the way they are. Be they Straight, Gay, Lesbian, Bisexual, etc. Because none are perfect all are known to sin of that there can be no debate. Yet when man capriciously wishes to capture the moment and condemn those whom God has created by using Biblical passages that are nil-appropriate, they fail in their mission to address the fact that God indeed creates every human being yet gives and allows free will to all. If a person chooses an 'immoral' lifestyle, then we have thousands of people trying to interpret what constitutes as 'immoral'. Regardless, if the person sins by promiscuity, THAT and only that is the real sin by definition.

You can no more tell the bee to make milk than you can tell the cow to make honey. They are not oriented that way and neither will engage well in that activity if they were to be changed to conform to what one would like for them to be.

If you object to that site, here are two others where you can find useful information about this subject:

http://narth.com/ (http://www.spiritualforums.com/vb/redir.php?link=http%3A%2F%2Fnarth.com%2F)

http://pfox.org/default.html (http://www.spiritualforums.com/vb/redir.php?link=http%3A%2F%2Fpfox.org%2Fdefault.htm l)



And I present to you the following website as well for better balance. There were many others with like information but I believe this one sums it up quite succinctly and to the point and the article was written by one who possesses a doctorate. It should be required reading, imho, for anyone who has such questions on the so-called "Gay Lifestyle" that is causing division among their family, friends, or others and may even be driving young children to take their own lives because they feel so inferior and have not been taught the fact that Jesus Loves Them and their life is precious.

Please also take good note of the "Links and Resources" at the bottom of the page. Thank you.

http://www.theturning.org/folder/samesex.html


Deus tecum, (\o/) AngelBreeze (\o/)

"Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost: Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and, lo, I am with you alway, even unto the end of the world. Amen."-- MATTHEW 28: 19-20 (KJV)

"Whosoever transgresseth, and abideth not in the doctrine of Christ, hath not God. He that abideth in the doctrine of Christ, he hath both the Father and the Son." -- II JOHN 9 (KJV)

[Triner]

Lady Scarletmoon,
The previous two posts should be indication enough to avoid Christianity. There are many other spiritual paths you can take in which you won't be judged. You'll be loved just for the beautiful person you are. :hug3:

[AngelBreeze]

Lady Scarletmoon,
The previous two posts should be indication enough to avoid Christianity. There are many other spiritual paths you can take in which you won't be judged. You'll be loved just for the beautiful person you are. :hug3:

The previous two posts are from those who believe in the Power of Jesus and Salvation! Yet what you are advising her would never be enough for Lady Scarletmoon's Salvation which I'm sure is very important to her. I'm sure she would rather keep a peaceful mind by knowing that when she leaves this world she will be Saved by Jesus Christ. That is an assurance that no one else can give to her but Jesus. Accept it or not. That's the way it is. And loving her for the beautiful person she is is great, but that is mundane, of this world. How wonderful for her to know that she can be Loved also by God through Jesus Christ and assure her own Salvation by becoming Born Again which assures it unequivocally.

The prayer for Salvation is just below for her consideration and anyone else who would rather be with God when they pass on than believe the stories of those who literally do not care if you are Saved or not. Who would care if Lady Scarletmoon is Saved? Why would they care? What would it matter to them or to you if is she is Saved, for that matter? Tell me. What's it to you? The fact is no one would care, except that individual person who does not want to pass on without God in their life and knowing about Salvation in order to do something about it while they are still here in this world and can. But I DO care about her :hug: and all others and that is why I am taking this time to say these words to those who may not know Jesus Christ. One has to look out for themselves since it appears that there are others who would rather steer a beautiful soul into limbo by not speaking about Salvation to them. You thus have a choice. Believe it and do that which can Save you. Or do not believe it and find out later on how truly important it was while you were on this earth, but by then it will be too late for Salvation. Think about it. Why take chances if you truly love yourself and care enough about your eternal soul and spirit. Yes, that means it is forever that you go either with God by your side or with Him forever missing.

And nothing can be wrong with telling people about this. They all need to know this part as well. It's the Simplest thing one can do for themselves. Very simple to just accept Jesus into your life by saying the prayer below. That's all it takes! How hard can that be? And yet it means the whole difference between your soul being Saved or purposefully retaining it in limbo for eternity. That's why one must seriously think about it.

Thank you, Triner, for bringing that up about our posts. It has allowed me to present the other side to things that are so important for one and their ultimate destiny.



Deus tecum, (\o/) AngelBreeze (\o/)

"Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost: Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and, lo, I am with you alway, even unto the end of the world. Amen."-- MATTHEW 28: 19-20 (KJV)

"Whosoever transgresseth, and abideth not in the doctrine of Christ, hath not God. He that abideth in the doctrine of Christ, he hath both the Father and the Son." -- II JOHN 9 (KJV)

[stepspractice]

The United Church of Chrsit is very LGBT friendly. They are very welcoming and progressive. Its part of their church guidelines.

I worked for an organization that was affiliated with UCC and our staff inservices included education on UCC acceptance of LGBT people as part of our diversity training.

Good luck.

[agiosotheos]

isn't it rather arrogant to assume one can know which of the thousands of human god concepts is the "right" one?

Not necessarily.

or that any of the human concocted deities are accurate portrayals of "God"?

Not necessarily. Not if they were revealed by God.

[agiosotheos]

So, knowing that, from those who worked directly with that organization, I can't imagine anyone suggesting to another, as was apparently done to the original posting party who was asking for a belief system or religion with which to worship that they instead be redirected to this place with what the former leaders have brought out. I believe that to be very insensitive and ill thought out and am concerned in light of what the ex-leaders had to say. Since God created everyone, when God calls them to worship, they should feel free to go to the church of their choice without undue badgering.

There are many people of all ages today, we have learned through the media, who are being badgered in schools, attacked in streets, killed, and some even driven to suicide, as in the younger folks, because of their sexual orientation that my heart goes out to them and one simply cannot continue in the vein of telling them they are not welcomed at home or elsewhere. To those who are particularly impressionable, that could cause some rather tragic consequences if they were to take that kind of opinion seriously. But the biggest factor in this is that there is no place in the Holy Bible that I have found where Jesus Christ specifically targets Gay and Lesbian people and condemns them for their lifestyle. That has weighed much in the way I now view things since it is by the Blood of Jesus that we are Saved. Other passages that attempt to marginalize those of a same-sex lifestyle have also been proven to be speaking about something entirely different and not germane to the subject at hand. And if He, whom The Father has sent to Earth does not condemn these people, who can claim greater authority to do so I would ask.



I agree with you.

[agiosotheos]

I would a agree.. By saying we have a "Responsibility" to know how God "Wants us to Live"

I don't entirely agree. I don't feel entirely comfortable to comment on the nature of theophilus' rhetoric. However, I don't think it's erroneous to say that there is a discriminatory (according to action) manner in which God wants us to live.

[agiosotheos]

Are you serious?.. lol

Okay, Originally writer of this thread. Stay away from Abrahamic religions. Taoism doesn't give even the slightest **** if your gay/straight/up/down/left/right... Basically the best religions work around the natural events of reality, they don't say some events are wrong and some are right like christianity (the worst religion that has ever existed) tries to. So basically, stay away from abrahamic religions - islam, christianity, catholicism, etc. Stick to vedic type religions, taoism, hinduism, buddhism(where all sexualities including straight are considered to inhibit enlightenment) and Asatru... Pagany religions are probably cool with it too, and probably advise it just to be different from christianity.

:rolleyes:

[agiosotheos]

He never addressed this specific question because he was living in a culture where everyone already knew that a homosexual lifestyle was wrong.

Care to back this up?

But he did teach some things that apply to this subject.And Pharisees came up to him and tested him by asking, “Is it lawful to divorce one's wife for any cause?” He answered, “Have you not read that he who created them from the beginning made them male and female, and said, ‘Therefore a man shall leave his father and his mother and hold fast to his wife, and the two shall become one flesh’?
(Matthew 19:3-5 ESV)


He clearly taught that marriage is a union between a man and a woman. There is one other thing he said that is applicable to this subject:[INDENT]I have not come to call the righteous but sinners to repentance.
(Luke 5:32 ESV)


Just because homosexuality was not the original sexual orientation and having a homosexual orientation may be a consequence of the Fall does not clearly imply that God would disapprove of same sex partnership for those who find themselves inheriting a homosexual orientation.

[Sungirl]

the belief that there is a way that "god wants us to live" and whether being gay or living a gay lifestyle is wrong depends on one huge thing.... whether you believe in THAT god.

I realise it is hard for many people who follow or have only ever been exposed to the christian faith don't believe that there is another way, but there is.

To those that are arguing that it is not a sin, remember, that is their faith, leave them to it. If they want to be unhappy and try and change who they are then fine, it is their choice.

Those that want to be true to themselves and not feel bad about who they are... just walk away from christianity, open the box and look outside. There is so much more out there and so many people who will welcome you with open arms and love you for who you really are!!

Don't try to force closed minded people to open up and think differently. They have a right to their beliefs, so long as they don't force them on others.

It is ALL your choice and only your choice.

[Mind's Eye]

I don't entirely agree. I don't feel entirely comfortable to comment on the nature of theophilus' rhetoric. However, I don't think it's erroneous to say that there is a discriminatory (according to action) manner in which God wants us to live.

I meant to say I disagree.... so I agree with you agioshtheos.

[breath]

During my last visit to the world of mystics I came back with this answer for you.

Any religion that requires something of you does not respect your nature.
Any religion that you automatically are because of your way, loves you.

love means to accept the nature of something
if your nature is homosexual, then not only do I passively accept it, but my love for nature has brought my love to you - because you are accepting that homosexuality is your nature. So I active give my encouragement to your homosexuality and I love it.

If those around you do not wish to accept the harmony in which you exist, they do not accept you at all - for every part of us is a part of the whole without which we are no longer the whole. If you accept your nature, you will have the entire power of nature behind you and can cope with any dislike from your family or friends with the ease that a stream copes with a small pebble.

(it will slowly erode the pebble with it's softness and naturally arrising consistency.)

[Internal Queries]

i imagine that humans sexual orientation, like everything else, springs from vibration. i envision human sexuality as a vibrational arch which spans from the uber macho male energy on one end of the spectrum to the fluffy girlie girl energy on the other end. androgeny sits on the absolute apex (neither male nor female) while homosexuality is close to the apex on one side of androgeny or the other, depending on the whether a homosexual person is manifestating masculine or feminine aspects.

i tend to believe we have no choice but to manifest as the vibration that creates us dictates.

[AngelBreeze]

I agree with you.

Thank you, Agiosotheos! I simply cringe every time I hear someone who attempts to marginalize a person whom God has created who is living with something that he or she may not have had any control over at birth . And one never knows if a young person is reading these posts and is impressionable enough to in effect, say 'Well, nobody truly wants or loves me, so this is the last straw, I'm outta here!' and the next thing you hear is that a child was found who committed suicide and either left a note or didn't but people knew it was because they felt so marginalized to the point that they felt there was no longer any hope.

This must not happen! There is always hope! And while some may feel that the jury is still out on this matter of sexual orientation, other learned men, not only from the clergy but from the professions have declared a genetic link to such orientation at birth. Therefore, to continue to treat these people (including adults of course) as second-class citizens appears to be a mean-spirited, Draconian, Victorian way of seeing things. God will be the judge in this and other cases. But an overriding question will be -- What will God do to those who caused the unnecessary deaths and demise of Gay and Lesbian people through their marginalizing efforts? That remains to be seen. But love and compassion should be the order of the day for those who we do not fully understand and until there is clear evidence, they deserve a high degree of support instead. But again, I will say that it is Promiscuity that is the sin for both Straight and Gay lifestyles, not how a person was born or their affectionate orientation.

There can be literally not one more case involving the death or maiming or suicide of a person whom others may not understand. We simply have to PREVENT any further tragedies from occurring due to crimes against sexual orientation. To remain complacent in the face of crime, is a great sin and one that will return to haunt those who are the perpetrators either in this life or in the world of spirit.

Deus tecum, (\o/) AngelBreeze (\o/)

"Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost: Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and, lo, I am with you alway, even unto the end of the world. Amen."-- MATTHEW 28: 19-20 (KJV)

"Whosoever transgresseth, and abideth not in the doctrine of Christ, hath not God. He that abideth in the doctrine of Christ, he hath both the Father and the Son." -- II JOHN 9 (KJV)

[Time]

iF any religion says you are (IE:abonination, unclean, wrong, sinful) for your sexual preference, is, im sorry to say wrong ( at least in that respect).

IF im not mistakin, teh catholic tradition state " man and man", or " man and male" sexual intercourse as " an abomination", to be fair i dont belive it even states anything about lesbians

Even then you shouldnt even have to worry about it, if religions talk about love, respect and uniting people, and togetherness, then why make rules in footnote? IT doesnt make sence.

The best thing for you to do is not worry about any particular tradition. Learn about everything, let the world be your religion, instead of the religion being your world.

[thewordofgod]

I'm looking for a belief system that will not consitantly say i'm going to hell because i'm a lesbian....do u know of any?


Religions of men don't know who God is so don't look for comfort in them. God knows you and all other people will be saved from your flesh when you die so you have nothing to worry about. Just enjoy these last days before the end of this age.

[thewordofgod]

iF any religion says you are (IE:abonination, unclean, wrong, sinful) for your sexual preference, is, im sorry to say wrong ( at least in that respect).

IF im not mistakin, teh catholic tradition state " man and man", or " man and male" sexual intercourse as " an abomination", to be fair i dont belive it even states anything about lesbians

Even then you shouldnt even have to worry about it, if religions talk about love, respect and uniting people, and togetherness, then why make rules in footnote? IT doesnt make sence.

The best thing for you to do is not worry about any particular tradition. Learn about everything, let the world be your religion, instead of the religion being your world.

It would be great if people would admit that God is more important to them than the world but that won't happen during this age. In the next age, every9one of God's people will worship him instead of the world he formed for us.

[theophilus]

There are many other spiritual paths you can take in which you won't be judged.We all face judgment regardless of the path we follow. Hebrews 9:27 says, "It is appointed for man to die once, and after that comes judgment." In the Bible God has revealed the standards by which we will judge us and has showed us how to be ready for the judgment. Here is a way you can find out how well prepared you are:

http://www.spiritualforums.com/vb/showpost.php?p=186160&postcount=1 (http://www.spiritualforums.com/vb/redir.php?link=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.spiritualforums.co m%2Fvb%2Fshowpost.php%3Fp%3D186160%26amp%3Bpostcou nt%3D1)

[breath]

We all face judgment regardless of the path we follow. Hebrews 9:27 says, "It is appointed for man to die once, and after that comes judgment." In the Bible God has revealed the standards by which we will judge us and has showed us how to be ready for the judgment. Here is a way you can find out how well prepared you are:

http://www.spiritualforums.com/vb/showpost.php?p=186160&postcount=1 (http://www.spiritualforums.com/vb/redir.php?link=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.spiritualforums.co m%2Fvb%2Fshowpost.php%3Fp%3D186160%26amp%3Bpostcou nt%3D1)

Hi...

What you've done there is use a passage from something only you believe is true to prove something to people who don't believe it is true. Can you see the problem here?

It's similar to if I said to you. "No, not everyone does get judged because the buddha said we can free ourselves from karma and escape samsara in which god himself resides." Would you then accept it? No, because you don't believe in buddhism. In the same way your christian doctrine means nothing to anyone who doesn't believe in christianity.

[breath]

It would be great if people would admit that God is more important to them than the world but that won't happen during this age. In the next age, every9one of God's people will worship him instead of the world he formed for us.

Narrow minded and unlearned in theology. Don't make a statement based purely on belief, otherwise it's a deliberate flippant falsification by omission of other possibilities. Saying a belief asif it is fact is a sign of disrespect to all other spiritualities because you BELIEVE that your sources are more genuine than others, yet they are oldest and most editted of almost all of them.

You say 'God' asif he belongs to you and your religion. He doesn't.

[Triner]

We all face judgment regardless of the path we follow. Hebrews 9:27 says, "It is appointed for man to die once, and after that comes judgment." In the Bible God has revealed the standards by which we will judge us and has showed us how to be ready for the judgment. Here is a way you can find out how well prepared you are:

http://www.spiritualforums.com/vb/showpost.php?p=186160&postcount=1

What you've done there is use a passage from something only you believe is true to prove something to people who don't believe it is true. Can you see the problem here?

It's similar to if I said to you. "No, not everyone does get judged because the buddha said we can free ourselves from karma and escape samsara in which god himself resides." Would you then accept it? No, because you don't believe in buddhism. In the same way your christian doctrine means nothing to anyone who doesn't believe in christianity.

'Tis true. But circular logic usually doesn't matter when it comes to absolute belief.

Funny thing is, I've read the Bible. I think there are some great messages in it and I think Jesus gave us a wonderful message. I just don't believe it's the "Word of God". All of the "God we should fear", "vengeful God", "judgemental God", "God will send you to Hell" messages were just made up to try to keep us in fear and under the Church's thumb. Jesus gave us the "Big Two" and dat's cool.

[Verunia]

Identity is so important today, we're always scrambling to call ourselves something based on our beliefs and our feelings... You like what you like, and I do believe we have choice in what we wish to do.. Just do what you wish to do and you'll find your way. If people are uncomfortable with your actions and beliefs, then they are uncomfortable or unhappy with theirs as well. I see it in almost every holy roller or religious crazy I meet. And I've been on the other end, judging people- it was one of the most insecure times of my short life so far, and it's not as easy as it looks. Those people are suffering too, in a different way.

[AngelBreeze]

Warm greetings!

The discussion seems to be getting off-topic here. But I wanted to let you know that just today while I was at a store, I was reading in the newspaper about a study that is out concerning the suicide rates of gay teens who are more apt to commit suicide in parts of communities that are predominately conservative and with a political philosophy! How about that.

Apparently, where there is no support for Gay rights, kids often attempt to commit suicide at a greater rate. Only one state was in this study. The report cited a twenty percent rate of suicides among same-sex attracted teens vs. a four percent among the heterosexual ones. That is entirely too many losing their lives! Entirely too many! That should immediately bring up a red flag that something is drastically wrong as there should be No Suicides at all because of this matter concerning same-sex orientation.

These are significant findings and appear in a Pediatrics on-line journal. I can't immediately recall the full name, however. But, imho,this can only support the fact that discrimination against youth, as well as others, due to sexual orientation (the topic of this thread) is causing some very serious problems that need to be immediately addressed in this country, not just in one state, but in all the rest.

It is unthinkable that pressure placed on these students due to who they are and how they may have been born would ultimately drive them to their demise. How truly sad to know that they could have had a good future and become fine productive citizens of this country with much to contribute to society but instead, because of the prejudiced, narrow-minded thinking on the part of some, but thankfully and certainly by not all Christians or those of other religions by any means, would cause them to take this ultimate fatal action.

Again, this penchant for speaking derogatorily against these folks must be STOPPED IMMEDIATELY! Look what is happening! Take A Good Hard Look if you're still not convinced! Each life is precious because God created it and it should matter even to those who still believe they are living back in the days of 'The Inquisition' to Cease Their Taunting, Rejection, Humiliation, and Excoriation of those children as well as all others whom God loves. No words are adequate enough to express such disdain for those who would purposely drive a fine human being to commit such a tragedy! It is simply beyond comprehension!

Deus tecum, (\o/) AngelBreeze (\o/)

"Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost: Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and, lo, I am with you alway, even unto the end of the world. Amen."-- MATTHEW 28: 19-20 (KJV)

"Whosoever transgresseth, and abideth not in the doctrine of Christ, hath not God. He that abideth in the doctrine of Christ, he hath both the Father and the Son." -- II JOHN 9 (KJV)

[Shim]

Warm greetings!

The discussion seems to be getting off-topic here. But I wanted to let you know that just today while I was at a store, I was reading in the newspaper about a study that is out concerning the suicide rates of gay teens who are more apt to commit suicide in parts of communities that are predominately conservative and with a political philosophy! How about that.

Apparently, where there is no support for Gay rights, kids often attempt to commit suicide at a greater rate. Only one state was in this study. The report cited a twenty percent rate of suicides among same-sex attracted teens vs. a four percent among the heterosexual ones. That is entirely too many losing their lives! Entirely too many! That should immediately bring up a red flag that something is drastically wrong as there should be No Suicides at all because of this matter concerning same-sex orientation.

These are significant findings and appear in a Pediatrics on-line journal. I can't immediately recall the full name, however. But, imho,this can only support the fact that discrimination against youth, as well as others, due to sexual orientation (the topic of this thread) is causing some very serious problems that need to be immediately addressed in this country, not just in one state, but in all the rest.

It is unthinkable that pressure placed on these students due to who they are and how they may have been born would ultimately drive them to their demise. How truly sad to know that they could have had a good future and become fine productive citizens of this country with much to contribute to society but instead, because of the prejudiced, narrow-minded thinking on the part of some, but thankfully and certainly by not all Christians or those of other religions by any means, would cause them to take this ultimate fatal action.

Again, this penchant for speaking derogatorily against these folks must be STOPPED IMMEDIATELY! Look what is happening! Take A Good Hard Look if you're still not convinced! Each life is precious because God created it and it should matter even to those who still believe they are living back in the days of 'The Inquisition' to Cease Their Taunting, Rejection, Humiliation, and Excoriation of those children as well as all others whom God loves. No words are adequate enough to express such disdain for those who would purposely drive a fine human being to commit such a tragedy! It is simply beyond comprehension!

Deus tecum, (\o/) AngelBreeze (\o/)

"Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost: Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and, lo, I am with you alway, even unto the end of the world. Amen."-- MATTHEW 28: 19-20 (KJV)

"Whosoever transgresseth, and abideth not in the doctrine of Christ, hath not God. He that abideth in the doctrine of Christ, he hath both the Father and the Son." -- II JOHN 9 (KJV)

Back up there Angelbreeze, according to how they were born? According to an article published in 1969 by John Hopkins University, gender is like language, as long as there are no "kinky" gene or hormone predispositions, gender role identity is said to be "learned." Genetics ordains only that language can develop, not whether it will be Arabic or English.

Now, I'm not taking sides or suggesting things like this are right! (http://www.landoverbaptist.org/2010/october/gayteens.html) But I am interested in whether or not there are scientific facts to suggest that this article published in 1969 are no longer true. I realize too that back in the 60's homosexuality was once looked to be a mental illness.

[Triner]

Back up there Angelbreeze, according to how they were born? According to an article published in 1969 by John Hopkins University, gender is like language, as long as there are no "kinky" gene or hormone predispositions, gender role identity is said to be "learned." Genetics ordains only that language can develop, not whether it will be Arabic or English.

Now, I'm not taking sides or suggesting things like this are right! (http://www.landoverbaptist.org/2010/october/gayteens.html) But I am interested in whether or not there are scientific facts to suggest that this article published in 1969 are no longer true. I realize too that back in the 60's homosexuality was once looked to be a mental illness.

Shim, there have been loads of scientific studies on the subject. Nothing has been "proven" either way. They've found both genetic, hormonal, in-utero, and environmental factors affecting it. Google it. You'll find loads of info on more recent studies.

[Shim]

Shim, there have been loads of scientific studies on the subject. Nothing has been "proven" either way. They've found both genetic, hormonal, in-utero, and environmental factors affecting it. Google it. You'll find loads of info on more recent studies.

Thanks Triner, you have confirmed what I already know. I don't have enough interest or time to pursue the subject. I'm just used to the argument surfacing in various forums, and was wondering if someone else had something I hadn't already heard.

[AngelBreeze]

Back up there Angelbreeze, according to how they were born? According to an article published in 1969 by John Hopkins University, gender is like language, as long as there are no "kinky" gene or hormone predispositions, gender role identity is said to be "learned." Genetics ordains only that language can develop, not whether it will be Arabic or English.

Now, I'm not taking sides or suggesting things like this are right! (http://www.landoverbaptist.org/2010/october/gayteens.html) But I am interested in whether or not there are scientific facts to suggest that this article published in 1969 are no longer true. I realize too that back in the 60's homosexuality was once looked to be a mental illness.

Then you'd better start reading the following articles, Shim! They are real Eye-Openers!

http://psychology.ucdavis.edu/rainbow/html/hooker2.html
(Scroll down to "1991 Award Citation" and start reading there and on down about this lady with a Ph.D. who showed the world what was what.

This website contains excellent references that every "Inquisition follower" should read! http://www.sagepub.com/books/Book3006

This should be Required Reading. Read it ALL. It is not long but very educational!: http://www.soulforce.org/article/643

Deus tecum, (\o/) AngelBreeze (\o/)

"Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost: Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and, lo, I am with you alway, even unto the end of the world. Amen."-- MATTHEW 28: 19-20 (KJV)

"Whosoever transgresseth, and abideth not in the doctrine of Christ, hath not God. He that abideth in the doctrine of Christ, he hath both the Father and the Son." -- II JOHN 9 (KJV)

[Sungirl]

Just a thought..... so much of who we are is not based on something that can be found scientifically... our sprituality is a pertinant example. I could no more be christian with as much faith as I follow my own path, any more that I could choose a different sexual orientation.

Whether it can be found by scientists or not does not make it something that you can change by choice.

So much of what we talk about on these forums cannot be proven by scientist why should we rely on them now?

[theophilus]

Hi...

What you've done there is use a passage from something only you believe is true to prove something to people who don't believe it is true. Can you see the problem here?

It's similar to if I said to you. "No, not everyone does get judged because the buddha said we can free ourselves from karma and escape samsara in which god himself resides." Would you then accept it? No, because you don't believe in buddhism. In the same way your christian doctrine means nothing to anyone who doesn't believe in christianity.I am aware of the fact that many people don't believe in Christianity but the truth of falsity of a belief exists independently of whether or not anyone believes it. I have a responsibility to tell people the truth whether or not they believe it.

[LightFilledHeart]

I happen to be straight and not a great fan of religion per se. I am very spiritually oriented and have strong beliefs I hold dear, but I don't involve myself in religions, which are human constructs having little or nothing to do with true spiritual wisdom. Having said that, I would also say this.. if I WERE to be of a mind to join any religion, it could ONLY be one that was inclusive, NOT exclusive, since I firmly believe in Divine Oneness. So any religion that was NOT "gay friendly" would not be one I would give a moment's consideration to. If they don't recognize all beings as being part of God (and an individual expression of same!), they are not possessed of high truth.

[Internal Queries]

I am aware of the fact that many people don't believe in Christianity but the truth of falsity of a belief exists independently of whether or not anyone believes it. I have a responsibility to tell people the truth whether or not they believe it.


all you do is tell people YOUR VERSION of "Truth". that's all you can do. that's all any of us can do.

[theophilus]

Again, this penchant for speaking derogatorily against these folks must be STOPPED IMMEDIATELY! Look what is happening! Take A Good Hard Look if you're still not convinced! Each life is precious because God created it and it should matter even to those who still believe they are living back in the days of 'The Inquisition' to Cease Their Taunting, Rejection, Humiliation, and Excoriation of those children as well as all others whom God loves. No words are adequate enough to express such disdain for those who would purposely drive a fine human being to commit such a tragedy! It is simply beyond comprehension!There are two ways of hurting someone; doing something that will hurt him and failing to warn him if he is doing something dangerous. You have been talking about doing actions which cause physical or emotional harm to gays and I agree with you that this sort of thing is wrong and we must do what we can to stop it. But what about the second way? As I have pointed out in earlier post God has forbidden sexual activity between members of the same sex and will punish those who disobey him. Anyone who cares about gays must warn them of this.





Here is one more thing the Bible says on this subject:Or do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived: neither the sexually immoral, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor men who practice homosexuality, nor thieves, nor the greedy, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor swindlers will inherit the kingdom of God. And such were some of you. But you were washed, you were sanctified, you were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ and by the Spirit of our God.
(1 Corinthians 6:9-11 ESV)




This tells two things about homosexual activity: It is a sin which will keep people out of the kingdom of God, and it can be forgiven just as any other sin can. Jesus said it won't profit someone to gain the whole world and lose his own soul. What good would it do for a gay person to be accepted and free of persecution in this life if at the end he is condemned by God for his sin.http://psychology.ucdavis.edu/rainbow/html/hooker2.html (http://www.spiritualforums.com/vb/redir.php?link=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.spiritualforums.co m%2Fvb%2Fredir.php%3Flink%3Dhttp%253A%252F%252Fpsy chology.ucdavis.edu%252Frainbow%252Fhtml%252Fhooke r2.html)
(Scroll down to "1991 Award Citation" and start reading there and on down about this lady with a Ph.D. who showed the world what was what.

This website contains excellent references that every "Inquisition follower" should read! http://www.sagepub.com/books/Book3006 (http://www.spiritualforums.com/vb/redir.php?link=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.spiritualforums.co m%2Fvb%2Fredir.php%3Flink%3Dhttp%253A%252F%252Fwww .sagepub.com%252Fbooks%252FBook3006)

This should be Required Reading. Read it ALL. It is not long but very educational!: http://www.soulforce.org/article/643 (http://www.spiritualforums.com/vb/redir.php?link=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.spiritualforums.co m%2Fvb%2Fredir.php%3Flink%3Dhttp%253A%252F%252Fwww .soulforce.org%252Farticle%252F643)

These links are about sexual orientation. The Bible's commands prohibit homosexual practice. These are two completely different things. A person can't help it if he is sexually attracted to others of the same sex. He can control whether or not he acts on this attraction. Homosexual orientation is a temptation which must be resisted if you want to obey God but it isn't a sin. It is yielding to the temptation that is a sin.

[Internal Queries]

There are two ways of hurting someone; doing something that will hurt him and failing to warn him if he is doing something dangerous. You have been talking about doing actions which cause physical or emotional harm to gays and I agree with you that this sort of thing is wrong and we must do what we can to stop it. But what about the second way? As I have pointed out in earlier post God has forbidden sexual activity between members of the same sex and will punish those who disobey him. Anyone who cares about gays must warn them of this.


Here is one more thing the Bible says on this subject:Or do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived: neither the sexually immoral, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor men who practice homosexuality, nor thieves, nor the greedy, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor swindlers will inherit the kingdom of God. And such were some of you. But you were washed, you were sanctified, you were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ and by the Spirit of our God.
(1 Corinthians 6:9-11 ESV)

This tells two things about homosexual activity: It is a sin which will keep people out of the kingdom of God, and it can be forgiven just as any other sin can. Jesus said it won't profit someone to gain the whole world and lose his own soul. What good would it do for a gay person to be accepted and free of persecution in this life if at the end he is condemned by God for his sin.


fortunately for gay folks the god those Bronze Age goatherders concocted out of their fear and predjudice isn't an accurate portrayal of Infinite Love.

[jazz]

been reading with interest and also distaste ,,,,now hold on ,especially u INTERNET Q,,,,its people like you who really make me sick ,,,im not gonna rant and rave cus as a 53 lesbian im tired ov trying to teach ignorant people especially christians about homosexuality and stuff ,,,if u where in my church u would get ur *** kicked for being so verbal about ur views ,,,that aint to say that there are not any homophobic people in my spiritulist church but if they aired there views they would be asked to leave im sure and if they were not them i would resign from the committe ,,,, im OUT in my church tho i dont advertise my lesbianism im sure its common knowledge and i have not faced any problems at all ,,,in fact after my 1st few weeks there i spoke to committee members and asked them if they were cool ,i needed to know as i wanted to to a very active member for hebden bridge church so b4 i got too involved i wanted to up front and honest ,,tho if i was straight i would not have had to do this ,,,so let our young lesbian sista be welcomed and give her encouragement to who ever she choses to to get spiritual guidence from eh ,,, im sure theres other gay and lesbians who could also give her guidence on her path so come out and speak up . love lite and rainbows jazz

[Internal Queries]

"Internet Q"? is your rant directed at me, jazz? if so ... why?

[jazz]

yep ,,,read bk wot u said mate then ask me again eh ,,,,

[Internal Queries]

yep ,,,read bk wot u said mate then ask me again eh ,,,,


um jazz? i think you've got me mixed up with someOne else. i'm not in anyway, shape or form anti-gay. i lived in Key West for 15 years and most of my friends were gay guys. i used to help my more feminine friends with their hair and make-up. **sigh** often they were prettier than me. lol

[Verunia]

"Internet Q"?

Bahahaa... I love it :D

[AngelBreeze]

There are two ways of hurting someone; doing something that will hurt him and failing to warn him if he is doing something dangerous. You have been talking about doing actions which cause physical or emotional harm to gays and I agree with you that this sort of thing is wrong and we must do what we can to stop it.

The question is: Are You doing what you can to try to stop it? Because if you are, I have not heard you mention one (1) thing to try to prohibit the crimes committed against people of a same-sex orientation. How about it, theo? Will you openly include words, right here as well as in other places, to tell the Heterosexual community to Stop attacking Gays and Lesbians for who they are? What I can't understand is why people would prefer to continue with their penchant in attacking others, instead of putting their money where their mouth is.

But what about the second way? As I have pointed out in earlier post God has forbidden sexual activity between members of the same sex and will punish those who disobey him. Anyone who cares about gays must warn them of this.

First of all, after seeing people of all age groups being marginalized due to their sexual orientation by what some may think is an effort to try to "save" them, I started doing extensive research on this subject of same-sex orientation and strongly feel no one should have to suffer any further attacks because of what is inherent in their body's composition. Someone needs to speak up for them, just as Whites took up the fight for Blacks in Selma when Blacks were fighting for equality, and do the homework in order to show others that the self-proclaimed "far righters" are really way off-base on this one.

Theo, in saying God will punish those who disobey Him, Are you also warning every merchant and other people, in no uncertain terms, that they should not work on the Sabbath because it is prohibited in Exodus 35:2 and the punishment for that is DEATH? And further, on cold Sabbaths, do you allow yourself and your family to freeze in the Winter and actively encourage others to bravely endure the cold because it is prohibited to build a fire in your home, as Exodus 35:3 commands?

And do you eat any kind of shellfish knowing it is an abomination according to Leviticus 11:10, and are you also loudly proclaiming to others who do that that they are committing an abominable act? And have you taken your megaphone to chant against it at the major fish food restaurants?

And if you know of anyone who wears glasses and approaches the altar of God, are you strongly warning them against that because it is against Leviticus 21:20?

And theophilus, have you taken to reminding florists, garden shops, and horticulturists to stop planting two different kinds of plants in the same field because Leviticus 19:19 forbids it? And are you wearing clothes or have you ever worn any that are made from two different materials? If you are, too bad because you have just committed a grave sin against God and need to ask for His forgiveness.

And theophilus, unless your hair has grown all the way down to your feet you have probably had at least one haircut in your life. But did you know that you are in violation of Leviticus 19:27 by having your hair cut? Yes. It's true. And Leviticus 19:28 warns against anyone placing a tattoo on their body. Surely, that can be your next project, to target all those who are wearing tattoos and remind them they have sinned and may be punished severely for that sin.

Another good project for you would be to stop prostitution since Leviticus 19:29 commands "Do not prostitute thy daughter, to cause her to be a w***e; less the land fall to w****dom, and the land become full of wickedness." You could do a great service to the community with just this one, Theo. You might even win the Best Citizen's Award. Seriously speaking!

And theophilus, realizing that you must have heard about people who sleep with their in-laws, have you taken up a crusade against these *Sinners* yet, as Leviticus 20:14 encourages you to do? If you haven't approached any of these other groups, then how can you be targeting only one group of people by saying that God will punish only Gays who engage in same sex activities and speaking only to that in each and every one of your posts! Don't you know that is very selective of you when there are a host of other groups, as mentioned, whom you could truly be helping to avoid the grievous SINS they are committing against God.

Here is one more thing the Bible says on this subject:Or do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived: neither the sexually immoral, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor men who practice homosexuality, nor thieves, nor the greedy, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor swindlers will inherit the kingdom of God. And such were some of you. But you were washed, you were sanctified, you were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ and by the Spirit of our God.
(1 Corinthians 6:9-11 ESV)

Theophilus, don't you know that 1 Corinthians 6:9-11 is making reference to male prostitutes, coming from the word that Paul concocted? That being the word "arsenokoitai", a word that even Biblical scholars have had difficulties interpreting what it means. You should know that it would be a far cry trying to assign that title to every Gay male now wouldn't it, to say nothing about showing great disrespect for Gay males who are not male prostitutes but fine members of their community.

This tells two things about homosexual activity: It is a sin which will keep people out of the kingdom of God, and it can be forgiven just as any other sin can. Jesus said it won't profit someone to gain the whole world and lose his own soul. What good would it do for a gay person to be accepted and free of persecution in this life if at the end he is condemned by God for his sin.

It would appear to be hard for a person to be forgiven for something that is inherent within them from the time of their birth.There are many known cases of the very young who were already identifying with a same-gender disposition. Do you or others want PROOF of this? If so, just say the word. That should show you and others that being of a same-gender orientation sure appears to be inherent at birth.

And please! I want certainly for no one to take offense, but how about those people of one sex who strongly resemble members of the Opposite sex and have since a very young age? How can you say they were not born that way? That is something they cannot change, therefore lending credence to the fact that it was/is in their genes to be the way they are just as with same-sex orientation.

These links are about sexual orientation. The Bible's commands prohibit homosexual practice. These are two completely different things. A person can't help it if he is sexually attracted to others of the same sex. He can control whether or not he acts on this attraction. Homosexual orientation is a temptation which must be resisted if you want to obey God but it isn't a sin. It is yielding to the temptation that is a sin.

So that is basically what I have been saying about those who are of BOTH sexual orientations. Those who are homosexual cannot help attract or be attracted by members of their own sex, and those who are heterosexual cannot likewise help being attracted to or by members of the opposite sex. But if what you say is true, they both Can CONTROL the urge on whether or not they act on this attraction, which would mean that even Straight people should definitely not pursue going out with members of the opposite sex because there are God's laws against sexual behavior outside of marriage which, at some point, could become a real possibility! Therefore, why succumb to that kind of temptation. We can surely be in agreement on this. And how many people, Theophilus, do you honestly believe, whether Christian or not, are going to adhere to that command once their hormones start raging during the biological process of their basic intimacy needs? Let's get an honest answer. How many from BOTH sexual orientations?

Deus tecum, (\o/) AngelBreeze (\o/)

"Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost: Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and, lo, I am with you alway, even unto the end of the world. Amen."-- MATTHEW 28: 19-20 (KJV)

"Whosoever transgresseth, and abideth not in the doctrine of Christ, hath not God. He that abideth in the doctrine of Christ, he hath both the Father and the Son." -- II JOHN 9 (KJV)
If you can prove to me that heterosexuals are not going to engage in premarital sex whatsoever, even though it's in their hormones to do so, then I can certainly begin to entertain the thought that homosexuals should likewise do so. But again, try explaining that to the Straight person's hormones as well as to the Gay or Lesbian's or even the priests we hear so much about. And let's see what kind of answer you get.

[bill]

Hi Lady, I am a Science of Mind Minister. IF you do not know about this philosophy google it. If you would like e-mail me and I will help. Remember you are perfect just the way you are. we are all a part of God. There are no mistakes....Blessings

[jazz]

INTERNET Q ,,,, MASSIVE APPOLIGIES TO U MATE ... it was aimed at THEOPHILUS ,, so very very sorry for not gettinng bck sooner been busy and not bin on line ..love ur make up parties tho x love lite and rainbows jazz b

[3dnow]

I'm looking for a belief system that will not consitantly say i'm going to hell because i'm a lesbian....do u know of any?

Why do you need a belief system you are yourself god having a human experience.

(and there is no friendly religion as far as I know)

3dnow

[A Glass named Esther]

I'm looking for a belief system that will not consitantly say i'm going to hell because i'm a lesbian....do u know of any?
"Hell" is a like a spiritual washing machine. Cleans up our souls so that we can return to heaven completely pure. Process might be extremely unpleasant but it's really easy to get dirty down here.

According to the Torah, there are 7 (broad) ways that a non-jew can connect to G-d. Marriage of a man and woman is one of them. There are still 6 other connections to work on. You don't need a religion to work on these connections.

-esther

[A Glass named Esther]

Remember you are perfect just the way you are. we are all a part of God. There are no mistakes....Blessings
Yes we are all part of G-d and G-d doesn't make any mistakes.

We are not all perfect the way we are. If we were all perfect, there would be world peace. We are on a journey of learning and self improvement.

-esther

[John32241]

I'm looking for a belief system that will not consitantly say i'm going to hell because i'm a lesbian....do u know of any?

I would suggest the Kryon material. Here is a link to 5 channeled messages that present the principal teachings.
http://www.kryon.com/k_25b.html

I have read the bible and belonged to a bible study group. Most of what I experienced were religion based perceptions. For truly empowering belief systems, you need spiritual information that is not religiously(dogma) based.

Best Wishes!!
John

[mattie]

... have you tried any of the Unitarian churches? ...

Even in my area, the VERY religiously conservative US Bible Belt (Louisiana) the Unitarian Church is openly same sex friendly.

[Prokopton]

I'm looking for a belief system that will not consitantly say i'm going to hell because i'm a lesbian....do u know of any?

Well if it's a belief system you want, you can try anything you like -- a belief system is different from a religion in that it can be entirely experience-based, personal, non-tribal.

But if you want an actual religion try the modern neopaganisms such as Wicca, they seem very gay-friendly as well as xdress-friendly, kink-friendly and generally non-going-to-hell based. :)

[mattie]

you obviously don't know Utah...(where i live currently)...

I can appreciate living in an area that is very religiously conservative. I'm in NW Louisiana where conservative Southern Baptists are the predominate religion.

I'm not into any organized religion, so I'm not pushing this as it is my favorite. The following link is for the Unitarian Church of Salt Lake City.

http://www.slcuu.org/

[mattie]

I'm looking for a belief system that will not consitantly say i'm going to hell because i'm a lesbian....

Firmly toss out any belief system that tells you are going to hell for anything. Of course, this means most of the organized religions. Not sure how the Unitarians view the Heaven/Hell business.

The concept of hell was successfully used by organized religion to scare their followers for centuries & keep them in line. Those who are energetically savvy know fear of anything is sufficient to keep our frequency very low.

Having same sex orientation is OK. Any authentic spiritual belief will recognize this. Listen to your gut instinct & promptly reject teachings you’re not OK w/.

Former Episcopalian Bishop John Shelby Spong discusses how organized religion MUST drop this & other hate-based nonsense from their beliefs if they are to survive. From his site:
‘For those seeking to experience Christianity in a new and vibrant way, Bishop John Shelby Spong offers fresh spiritual ideas. Over the past four decades, he has become one of the definitive voices for progressive Christianity.’

http://johnshelbyspong.com/

Explore these links:
http://www.google.com/search?client=safari&rls=en&q=utah+lesbian+community&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8
http://www.metroweekly.com/community/directory/?type=5
http://www.google.com/search?client=safari&rls=en&q=religious+lesbians&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8

[mattie]

no i dont know utah. I'm not sure how geography plays a role in it?

Utah is ground central for the very conservative Mormon religion.

[mattie]

isn't it rather arrogant to assume one can know which of the thousands of human god concepts is the "right" one? ...

NO.

For many centuries organized religion has tried to inculcate us w/ the idea that we are incompetent spiritually. We are more than competent to make these assessments.

[Gem]

Have you heard the Buddhist speech 'God is a Lesbian'.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JeBHm_hyOFs

[Perspective]

I can't help but wonder if the day will soon come if we'll be asking,
"Are there any religions that honor how we came into existence....the union between a man & a woman?"

LadyScarlet,
I don't believe in traditional "religious hell."
I believe we create our own thoughts, feelings & inner world & similarly - afterlife.
We don't go, but we grow to heaven (or hell).

I go to a church (to support my husband & kids) that believes many things I don't... but I go for the sense of community & love.
If you can find a place with people who've learned to love, that's most important.
There will always be people who hypocritically judge you for one thing or another... but I just focus on the good & what you have in common.
Don't make your sexual preference the focus - but rather, your spirituality.

[Bluegreen]

I'm looking for a belief system that will not consitantly say i'm going to hell because i'm a lesbian....do u know of any?

It seems to me that people form their own belief systems. Some do it staying within their religion, others by looking at all belief systems, including religious ones, and taking from them all that resonates with them.

What you need, and probably what you are looking for, are people who are not judgmental.

You will not go to hell because you are a lesbian because it is no sin to be one.

[LightFilledHeart]

Everyone is entitled to their opinion. What is arrogant is to assume you know the ultimate and only truth for EVERYONE. We can each determine that for ourselves :)

[LightFilledHeart]

Don't make your sexual preference the focus - but rather, your spirituality.

I would agree with that. Unfortunately, in this bigotted world where everyone thinks they have the one and only ultimate truth and anyone who disagrees with that truth is simply wrong, that can be easier said than done.

I personally happen to be heterosexual. I didn't choose it, I was born that way. It has never been an issue for me what another's sexuality is. That's his or her private business. As far as I'm concerned, what two consenting adults do in the privacy of their own bedroom is nobody's business but their own. And love is love, regardless of whether it's directed towards the opposite sex or a same sex partner. We should honor love in all its healthy forms and expressions and learn tolerance for that which is different or not the same perspective as our own.

God is Divine Oneness. It's all inclusive. God doesn't distinguish between hetero and homo-sexual love. God simply values LOVE!

[Medium_Laura]

I'm looking for a belief system that will not consitantly say i'm going to hell because i'm a lesbian....do u know of any?


Wicca :)

:hug:

[Rivendoah]

I got to the third page of this topic and have heard more homophobic responses than I can stomach... OMG!

Dear... god loves and accepts you fully no matter your sexual orientation... any one that says otherwise is caught up in a belief system that is DEAD WRONG! Be yourself and when you are old enough, either get the heck out of Utah or join a group that fights against the unjust... in accurate... and homophobic people who would say that being gay and loving another women is wrong... they are wrong... and when we all reach heaven we will laugh at the foolish notion they they now embrace...

They no not what they do....

[moke64916]

Choose as you wish. I'd search within to find that answer. Do you need to search? Or is it something you already have?

[Lazarus72]

I came across the following extract a while back whilst mooching through some Buddhist stuff.

"Homosexuality is not an illness or abnormality. It is about as common as left-handedness and homosexuality deserves to be regarded just as natural and unthreatening as left-handedness is today. (Remember there was a time when left-handed students were punished.)" - Buddhanet


Those Folks are not only the most pro-tollerance I've come across, but They apparently also have a doctrine to effect the end of All forms of suffering. :smile:

[LightFilledHeart]

I came across the following extract a while back whilst mooching through some Buddhist stuff.

"Homosexuality is not an illness or abnormality. It is about as common as left-handedness and homosexuality deserves to be regarded just as natural and unthreatening as left-handedness is today. (Remember there was a time when left-handed students were punished.)" - Buddhanet


These Guys are not only the most pro-tollerance I've come across, but They also have a doctrine to effect the end of All forms of suffering. :smile:

Lazarus, beautiful!!! It rings true to me :D

[LightFilledHeart]

Wicca :)

:hug:

YES! And just about any other metaphysically oriented belief system! :D

[Lazarus72]

Lazarus, beautiful!!! It rings true to me :D

Thankyou LFH, You have just made Me smile bigtime.

Feeling the love and the tollerance.

:hug3: :smile: :hug3:

[Medium_Laura]

"Homosexuality is not an illness or abnormality. It is about as common as left-handedness and homosexuality deserves to be regarded just as natural and unthreatening as left-handedness is today. (Remember there was a time when left-handed students were punished.)" - Buddhanet
:
What a great statement ! ;) I remember my father telling me that very thing. He was hit for writing with his left hand. They (teachers) viewed it as "abnormal". I hope we are more evolved than that now. We can only hope that very soon, homosexuality will be viewed as you quoted above. :)

[Lazarus72]

What a great statement ! ;) I remember my father telling me that very thing. He was hit for writing with his left hand. They (teachers) viewed it as "abnormal". I hope we are more evolved than that now. We can only hope that very soon, homosexuality will be viewed as you quoted above. :)

Yeah I thought it was a great perspective when I came across it, thanks ML.

I was gonna mention about how recent the 'left handed nonsense' patterns of thinking were about, I knew it was recent, but wasn't sure how recent !!

That info about your dad adds to the perspective I feel.

I think there's been a fair bit of positive shifting of attitudes in recent times, and like You I hope for more in the near future. :smile:


(edit - upon reflection, I can use this additional information you supplied as a reason to afford a degree of tollerance..... to the intollerant.... :smile: :smile: )

[Medium_Laura]

He was born in 1933 so that gives you a bit of perspective :)

[Skins_Princess]

Well Wicca's usually gay friendly and the neo-pagan community in general tends to be very open toward gay lifestyles.

[LightFilledHeart]

Yes, wicca is very tolerent of differences. With a creed of
"And it harm none, do as you will...", how could it NOT be? :smile:

[moke64916]

Lazarus, beautiful!!! It rings true to me :D
The religion I most relate to if I were religious would be Buddhism. It relates to my spirituality. What's the difference? I know that Buddhists don't just "Believe", they "experience it". Belief is one thing but to experience it is another. What's the difference between Buddhism and Spirituality?

[stepspractice]

The New Message from God is also a gay/lesbian friendly religion. There is spiritual doctrine that speaks directly to this.

[theophilus]

I'm looking for a belief system that will not consitantly say i'm going to hell because i'm a lesbian....do u know of any?Perhaps you can find your answer here:

http://www.spiritualforums.com/vb/showpost.php?p=248592&postcount=1 (http://www.spiritualforums.com/vb/redir.php?link=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.spiritualforums.co m%2Fvb%2Fshowpost.php%3Fp%3D248592%26amp%3Bpostcou nt%3D1)

[chakragal]

The UU is the main too that I can think of that are gay friendly, though there is no formal "belief" system. There are some Christian churches that are open and affirming, like ones under the "progressive Christianity" structure. Example: Cathedral of Hope Salt Lake City is affirming and welcoming. Google The Center for Progressive Christianity (I can't post links yet).
So if Christianity is an option-there you go.

[Rivendoah]

For any Gay or Lesbian Christians out there please go to this site... don't be swayed by any misinterpretations of the bible that try to tell you that abstinence is an answer or denial of your natural feelings is wrong... that is just personal bias... wrong... wrong... wrong... god would never want that for us... he made just as we are and god wants us to accept who and what he made of us... we should find joy in who we are...

Here is great quote below... from the web site.

http://christiangays.com/

"As society is learning to accept gays based on basic human rights, this website supports homosexuality as an orientation based on Scripture alone.

It is our belief that the Original Scriptures, when understood in the correct context and culture of their time, make no mention of homosexuality. References to same-sex acts were with regard to rape, domination, idol worship, purity laws for the priests, etc. We condemn these acts as well, but recognize that they do not relate in any way to a loving, monogamous relationship between two people of the same sex.

Gays suffer much rejection. Gay Christians suffer especially so, wanting so much to be a part of the church they love, and yet being rejected just for who they are. Jesus always reached out to those who were rejected. Jesus reaches out to we gays today to tell us that we are loved, just as we were created!"

[avenger]

Gay friendly denominations:

United Church of Christ - http://www.ucc.org/ (Track record for liberal activism. When Anne Rice left the Catholic Church again over homosexuality, they sent her a letter asking her for fellowship because they accepted gays.)

Unitarian Universalist Associations - http://www.uua.org/ (Pretty much ideal for a gay person of any religious persuasion.)

Unity Church - http://unity.org/ (I plan on attending one of these congregations. Looks to be ideal for the gay Christian.)

Evangelical Lutheran Church of America - http://www.elca.org/ (Very upper class crowd here, from my experience. Upper class means better educated and more temperate when it comes to social issues. Though missional, they're still pretty apolitical for the most part. Members tend to be democrats.)



Other (not necessarily total tolerance, but moderate enough you can attend, be openly gay, and not get canned):

http://www.umc.org/ - United Methodist Church (very neutral atmosphere. some people will be very liberal, some people will be quite conservative. loving community overall.)

http://www.abc-usa.org/ - American Baptist Churches (MLK's denomination. known for it's political liberalism.)

http://www.disciples.org/ - Christian Church / Disciples of Christ (never been to one of these, but a friend of mine says its very moderate to liberal)



Churches to stay away from:

Roman Catholic Church - No explanation.

Eastern Orthodox - I assume they take the same stance as the Western church.

Plymouth Brethren - Expect to get canned.

Any Presbyterian Church - Expect to get canned.

Any Pentecostal Church (Assembly of God, Church of God, etc.) - Expect to get canned.

Non-denominational evangelical churches - Expect to get canned.

Episcopal Church in America - Used to be moderate, now they've gotten tight about homosexuality.

Lutheran Church - Missouri Synod - Very conservative twin of ELCA.

Calvary Chapel - Super conservative. Expect to get canned.

Evangelical Free Church - Expect to get canned.

Southern Baptist Convention - Yeah. You already know.

[theophilus]

he made just as we are and god wants us to accept who and what he made of us... we should find joy in who we are...The problem with this belief is that the human race is no longer in the condition in which God created it. God created the first humans with the ability to live forever. They sinned and as a result death entered the world. The fact that some people are gay doesn't prove that that is what God intended for us. This is a much better site for gay Christians because it recognizes the authority of the Bible and doesn't try to interpret it to fit some preconceived ideas.

http://truefreedomtrust.co.uk/faq (http://www.spiritualforums.com/vb/redir.php?link=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.spiritualforums.co m%2Fvb%2Fredir.php%3Flink%3Dhttp%253A%252F%252Ftru efreedomtrust.co.uk%252Ffaq)

Here is what it says about being gay:

If God made me this way, surely it must be right to express my sexuality (http://www.spiritualforums.com/vb/redir.php?link=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.spiritualforums.co m%2Fvb%2Fredir.php%3Flink%3Dhttp%253A%252F%252Ftru efreedomtrust.co.uk%252Fnode%252F320)
Sexuality development is a complex process, different for each person and involving several factors, including possibly some genetic predispositions. Being born or not born with attractions does not determine the right to act on them.

Why does God allow people to have gay feelings? (http://www.spiritualforums.com/vb/redir.php?link=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.spiritualforums.co m%2Fvb%2Fredir.php%3Flink%3Dhttp%253A%252F%252Ftru efreedomtrust.co.uk%252Fnode%252F280)
We're living in a fallen world, and every one of us is born into this world with an imperfect sinful nature. Whilst it's true that God has 'knit me together in my mother's womb' (Psalm 139:13 (http://www.spiritualforums.com/vb/redir.php?link=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.spiritualforums.co m%2Fvb%2Fredir.php%3Flink%3Dhttp%253A%252F%252Fbib lia.com%252Fbible%252Fesv%252FPsalm%252520139.13)) , the Psalmist also makes it clear that 'surely I was sinful at birth, sinful from the time my mother conceived me' (Psalm 51:5 (http://www.spiritualforums.com/vb/redir.php?link=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.spiritualforums.co m%2Fvb%2Fredir.php%3Flink%3Dhttp%253A%252F%252Fbib lia.com%252Fbible%252Fesv%252FPsalm%25252051.5)). An inevitable consequence of living in a fallen world with a sinful nature is that we will all desire and long for things, which are clearly prohibited by God in the Bible. Some people will struggle with anger, others with envy, still others with hatred, bitterness, jealousy, slander, or a desire to steal, or commit adultery, or to rebel against their parents. Most people will struggle to one degree or another with lust; for the majority it will be lust over people of the opposite sex, but for some it will be lust over people of the same sex - the Bible simply calls it lust.
The gospel of Jesus Christ redeems (rescues) us from the power and consequences of our sinful natures and begins to transform us, so that increasingly, step by step, we desire and are empowered to live lives which conform to God's pattern for living in the Bible. It's worth noting that very often 'gay feelings' are actually masking a legitimate, unfulfilled need for a right kind of same-sex intimacy, affection, affirmation and acceptance.

[Rivendoah]

The above information is a good reason not to trust how many have interpreted the bible... they want everyone to believe that how they have interpreted the bible is the the ONLY way to interpret the bible... I believe they are wrong... and if you are gay or coming out as a gay christian don't let these people put you back in the closet... the want us to see ourselves as sinners because we have found love in the arms of a person of the same sex... they want to keep us oppressed by trying to tell us that what they believe is the word of god... this is simply an attempt try to interpret the bible to fit some their own preconceived ideas and person bias.

This is all based upon what I believe is a wrong headed interpretation of cherry-picked quotes from the bible... it is all built on a house of cards... that is what i think...

Don't let them try and tell you that what you feel is wrong... god is with us on this... hold strong against the oppression of love...

Here is some interesting reading about how much the bible can and has been twisted...

Here a quote that says it all in my opinion.

"For Fundamentalists the Biblical word is clear and absolute, it is a reality in itself and its meaning is unchanging. It is not relative to the understanding of those who hear it in its varying cultural and historical context. As a result is does not really require interpretation. In a sense fundamentalism is not another kind of interpretation, but a denial of the need and legitimacy of interpretation. It presupposes that the Biblical word can be immediately grasped by all. Unwittingly of course the fundamentalist does interpret, such is the nature of reading and communication. Without realizing it, the fundamentalist equates 'the Word of God' with his or her interpretation of it, and absolutism that for all. In the Catholic Church we have only ever claimed that one person is infallible. In fundamentalist Churches, everyone is infallible".

Now... the thing to remember is that no one has the answer... no one the absolute truth... that rests in the heart... not in a book... we each must chart our own path to heaven and anyone who stands in your path waving a flag of absolutes should be gently pushed aside... they know not what they do...

http://www.christendom-awake.org/pages/hemer/bibletruth.htm

http://www.evilbible.com/

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/world/europe/article574768.ece

[Time]

The problem with this belief is that the human race is no longer in the condition in which God created it. God created the first humans with the ability to live forever. They sinned and as a result death entered the world

Nononono theo, god didnt get angry enough to wipe off the planet untill his "sons" mated with human females. The paragraph after that, god goes all freaky, and decides he was wrong and wipes out everything, cept one guy and his family. So it was HIS children, and inevitably him that caused our down fall in the christian context, NOT nessacarily us, especialy when you reaslize in the context of the bible, god made us, which means he decides as well, which negates any "perfect" or "omni anything" we think god has

[mahakali]

you dont need to lable yourself, all religons are following traditions created by man. in your heart you know the truth. maybe buddhism is good but there are sects that are not so open but again this is traditions, never said by buddha himself

[Lex]

:hug3: thank u all, i've never felt so much spiritual love, maybe it's time to actualy read my Bible :)

Dear Lady Scarletmoon -

WHAT?

You started this thread looking for help in finding a religion that would not discriminate against you for being gay...and now, "it's time to actually read my Bible"? That's the first and (perhaps) only book you should avoid at all costs! Oh, and the religion spawned by that book - Christianity? Oh, my, definitely not gay friendly.

Why do you need a church, anyway? Someone suggested Buddhism, an excellent choice because it's not an organized religion; it's a way of life very close to that taught by Jesus (if he actually existed, but if not, the words put into his mouth in the New Testament) and many others besides Buddha.

All of the major organized religions (monotheistic) worship an old guy, with a gray beard and otherwise human-like appearance who is omniscient. Unbelievable and proven incorrect many times over. Avoid them is my advice.

Spirituality is the better way to go...no churches, but many experienced and knowledge "leaders" of various levels that can help you to lead a richer, more ethical and meaningful life.

Sorry...no intent to be aggressive...just trying to be helpful....;o)

[Time]

You shouldnt condemn the bible. I dont agree with what people do with it, but the book itlsef isnt harmful untill we make it harmful, and it isnt good untill we make it good.

If you read the bible, there are a fwe things you need to understand.

The OT is generaly the jewish books, namley the torah.
The OT was written over a thousand years, by 4 distinct "writers ", who had an army of scibes.
The NT was written over about a thosuand years, the books in the bible are generaly 3500 - 2000 years old.
The OT, in which the NT wouldnt be around with out, was strictly based ont he jewish people trying to seperate themselves from opperssion. They were taken slaves by babylon, assyria, and rome, and many others at that time. All they wanted to do was be different, hence the one god, when everyone else had multiple.IT is written in a jewish context for jewish people.
The NT is generaly the same

Now, generaly speaking, most, if not all the storie sint he bible are taken from other traditions. Im not talking stolen for fun, I mean assimilated into their own due to time, trade routs and spreading out. IT was never meant to be read literal, or read as a historical document, but as a cultural book, for jewish people

[theophilus]

Now... the thing to remember is that no one has the answer... no one the absolute truth How do you know no one has the absolute truth? You couldn't know that unless you have absolute knowledge of the truth, so you are in fact doing exactly what you are condemning others for doing.

[Rivendoah]

How do you know no one has the absolute truth? You couldn't know that unless you have absolute knowledge of the truth, so you are in fact doing exactly what you are condemning others for doing.

It's on old trick in debating to twist around a statement in reverse... but in this case it doesn't hold any water... especially Holy Water! lol...

Seriously theophilis... no one has the answers... we have faith... belief... but nothing more than that... I think accepting that fact opens all kinds of doors spiritually... it is much harder to grow in knowledge and truth if one stays in a locked room...

"For Fundamentalists the Biblical word is clear and absolute, it is a reality in itself and its meaning is unchanging. It is not relative to the understanding of those who hear it in its varying cultural and historical context. As a result is does not really require interpretation. In a sense fundamentalism is not another kind of interpretation, but a denial of the need and legitimacy of interpretation. It presupposes that the Biblical word can be immediately grasped by all. Unwittingly of course the fundamentalist does interpret, such is the nature of reading and communication. Without realizing it, the fundamentalist equates 'the Word of God' with his or her interpretation of it, and absolutism that for all. In the Catholic Church we have only ever claimed that one person is infallible. In fundamentalist Churches, everyone is infallible."

[theophilus]

You started this thread looking for help in finding a religion that would not discriminate against you for being gay...and now, "it's time to actually read my Bible"? That's the first and (perhaps) only book you should avoid at all costs! Oh, and the religion spawned by that book - Christianity? Oh, my, definitely not gay friendly.Here is something written by someone who is gay and is also a Christian.When I began to wrestle with my homosexuality in a serious way, I was a Christian and a committed church member. The first people with whom I wanted to talk about my experience of same-sex desires were the pastors and elders at my church. Compassionate and understanding people that they were, these leaders looked for books and resources to help me grapple with what I was facing.


http://engagingchurchblog.com/2010/09/07/washed-and-waiting-author-wesley-hill-blogs-on-christian-faithfulness-and-homosexuality/ (http://www.spiritualforums.com/vb/redir.php?link=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.spiritualforums.co m%2Fvb%2Fredir.php%3Flink%3Dhttp%253A%252F%252Feng agingchurchblog.com%252F2010%252F09%252F07%252Fwas hed-and-waiting-author-wesley-hill-blogs-on-christian-faithfulness-and-homosexuality%252F)

He seems to have found Christianity to be gay friendly.

[Time]

Here is something written by someone who is gay and is also a Christian.
When I began to wrestle with my homosexuality in a serious way, I was a Christian and a committed church member. The first people with whom I wanted to talk about my experience of same-sex desires were the pastors and elders at my church. Compassionate and understanding people that they were, these leaders looked for books and resources to help me grapple with what I was facing

We both know what he told him. The whole " its s sin but we can "fix" you bit, jesus forgives those who sin blah blah.... Theres nothing to fix except 2000 year old preconceptions about something you fear, and dont understand. The bible evens tates that the rules are MEANT to change with time. Something almost no chruch goer knows.

Here is an example of what conditioning can do..... And, it isnt graphic, its not an easy read.

http://healthland.time.com/2011/06/08/the-sissy-boy-experiment-why-gender-related-cases-call-for-scientists-humility/

[Rivendoah]

He seems to have found Christianity to be gay friendly.

That depends on the type of christians one associates with... many are very accepting of gays and lesbians and have no problem with us... accept us fully as we are and lovingly too... that is what a REAL christian should do... however, there are many christians who try to control or change the behavior of gays and lesbians... who try to make something dirty out of something that is loving, natural and god given... these people try to tell gays and lesbians that the feelings of love they share and that sharing sexual pleasures with the one you love is sinful... this is not only wrong, but that is the truly sinful behavior in my mind... these people are not real christians... in that they do not follow the Real Christ... that is what I believe...

[Rivendoah]

For openly Gay Christians searching for a Christian Church should look into Metropolitan Community Church or MCC... a wonder place of love and inclusion for all types of people... this is a church that is growing... unlike many Christian Church's who's congregations are dwindling... I think the reasons are obvious...

http://mccchurch.org/

http://mccchurch.org/overview/

Here is some on info on the Church...

"New to MCC?

Welcome to MCC! MCC is a global Christian church of loving, affirming and welcoming communities of faith. We are “Tearing Down Walls” of oppression and injustice in your community and around the world. Because we are a people of the Good News, we are working with our Divine Creator to “Build Up Hope” among our siblings worldwide.

We are a people of hope. We are a people of faith.

We welcome you on this lifelong journey and mission!

What are Local MCC’s Like?Our churches are located in over 40 countries on 6 continents and are made up of congregants from many different walks of life. Because of this, we have a fellowship of churches that celebrate diversity both within their local congregations and among our global community.

Every church is influenced by the congregation members involved. Every church is influenced by the congregation members involved. The people sitting near you during worship services may come from a different religious tradition than you do. Still, we all worship together and celebrate the diversity God creates in us.

As a global church, we share the foundational calling (mission) for a specific and intentional outreach to/with homosexual, bisexual, and transgender people. Our churches actively minister in their communities to and with LGBT (lesbian, gay, bisexual, transgender) people.

We are a church that believes in the priesthood of all believers. That means, in a nutshell, that when you walk into the church and become an MCC member, you become a messenger the God loves all of God’s children and celebrates our created sexualities, our diversities and our individual uniqueness.

All persons has value and worth and are uniquely gifted to share the Good News with others. It takes the whole body, clergy and laity, to live out the Good News!

Will I be welcome?

Yes, absolutely. No matter your religious background (or lack thereof), your race, gender identity, sexual orientation, family makeup, disability…anything – you are welcome in MCC."

[Lex]

You shouldnt condemn the bible. I dont agree with what people do with it, but the book itlsef isnt harmful untill we make it harmful, and it isnt good untill we make it good.

If you read the bible, there are a fwe things you need to understand.

The OT is generaly the jewish books, namley the torah.
The OT was written over a thousand years, by 4 distinct "writers ", who had an army of scibes.
The NT was written over about a thosuand years, the books in the bible are generaly 3500 - 2000 years old.
The OT, in which the NT wouldnt be around with out, was strictly based ont he jewish people trying to seperate themselves from opperssion. They were taken slaves by babylon, assyria, and rome, and many others at that time. All they wanted to do was be different, hence the one god, when everyone else had multiple.IT is written in a jewish context for jewish people.
The NT is generaly the same

Now, generaly speaking, most, if not all the storie sint he bible are taken from other traditions. Im not talking stolen for fun, I mean assimilated into their own due to time, trade routs and spreading out. IT was never meant to be read literal, or read as a historical document, but as a cultural book, for jewish people

Time I don't wish to get into a long discussion or argument about the Bible. But here are a few facts, reference above post.

- I don't remember the exact number but only about 2/3 of the OT books are in the Torah.
- Judean scribes began writing the OT around 700 BCE - almost 1500 years after the "facts" of Abraham, Moses, Isaac and Joshua without written record of any kind. Their purpose was two-fold. One - develop a history for the Jews/Israelites and two - to set the foundations for monotheistic religion without getting their more powerful and pagan neighbors in an uproar and wiping them all out. They completed their work in about 20 years.
- The first known gospels were written between 70 and 100 CE. In 325 CE the Council of Nicea determined which books would be included in the New Testament and everything that was Gnostic in nature was left out and even destroyed wherever it was found.
- Yes, the OT was written in order to separate the Jews from others, but the "others" were their own kind - Canaanites. The Israelites were a sub-set of the Canaanites. Aside from the writing their own history and developing the one-god religion, they also set themselves apart from the kinfolk by refusing to eat pork and shaving their beards.
- There was no exodus of millions of Israelite slaves from Egypt. The Egyptians kept detailed accounts of their history and this isn't in there. It's inconceivable that such a large resurrection would not be mentioned in any of those records.
- The timelines of Abraham, Moses, Isaac and Joshua also do not match any of these records or any other known historical records of the time. In fact, there are no records of any kind that prove the existence of any of these "great Jewish leaders".
- Right - they wanted to be different and the OT, one god and other things is how they went about setting themselves apart.
- Right - without the OT there would be no NT because one of the books in the OT talks about the coming of the Messiah (definition of the term Messiah is arguable). The Messiah thing came about several times, in different societies for thousands of years before the OT was written and guess what....everyone of them had the Messiah being born to a virgin mother, the son of god with twelve disciples. Hmmm?

Bottom line the Bible is an interesting book, written in modern language in thriller format it would be an international bestseller...of fiction. I condemn the book because of the literalists who claim it to be the word of god and thereby subordinate the free will of millions of people through fear...fear of a wrathful god and the invention of a place called hell. The Bible is used solely to control people and that's what I find offensive about it; especially as it truly is - The Greatest Lie Ever Told (an excellent book by that name, written by WH Uffington).

[Lex]

It's on old trick in debating to twist around a statement in reverse... but in this case it doesn't hold any water... especially Holy Water! lol...

Seriously theophilis... no one has the answers... we have faith... belief... but nothing more than that... I think accepting that fact opens all kinds of doors spiritually... it is much harder to grow in knowledge and truth if one stays in a locked room...

"For Fundamentalists the Biblical word is clear and absolute, it is a reality in itself and its meaning is unchanging. It is not relative to the understanding of those who hear it in its varying cultural and historical context. As a result is does not really require interpretation. In a sense fundamentalism is not another kind of interpretation, but a denial of the need and legitimacy of interpretation. It presupposes that the Biblical word can be immediately grasped by all. Unwittingly of course the fundamentalist does interpret, such is the nature of reading and communication. Without realizing it, the fundamentalist equates 'the Word of God' with his or her interpretation of it, and absolutism that for all. In the Catholic Church we have only ever claimed that one person is infallible. In fundamentalist Churches, everyone is infallible."

Great post Rivendoah! ;o)

[Time]

I did say " generaly" the torah :P

And I agree with you, dont think I dont..... well except abou the cannanites.... LOL the isrealites were basicaly cannanites..... They wanted to be seperate from the opressers, liek i stated babylonians and the like.......

But, i do agree with you, i just cant condemn a book that isnt harmful in itself, a book cant cause harm only through us can it

[Lex]

I did say " generaly" the torah :P

And I agree with you, dont think I dont..... well except abou the cannanites.... LOL the isrealites were basicaly cannanites..... They wanted to be seperate from the opressers, liek i stated babylonians and the like.......

But, i do agree with you, i just cant condemn a book that isnt harmful in itself, a book cant cause harm only through us can it

True...condemning a book - a thing - is kind of silly, I guess. Glad to see we've agreed to amiably agree...;o). Thanks!

http://thesecondadvent.com/

[chakragal]

[QUOTE=Rivendoah]



Here a quote that says it all in my opinion.

"For Fundamentalists the Biblical word is clear and absolute, it is a reality in itself and its meaning is unchanging. It is not relative to the understanding of those who hear it in its varying cultural and historical context. As a result is does not really require interpretation. In a sense fundamentalism is not another kind of interpretation, but a denial of the need and legitimacy of interpretation. It presupposes that the Biblical word can be immediately grasped by all. Unwittingly of course the fundamentalist does interpret, such is the nature of reading and communication. Without realizing it, the fundamentalist equates 'the Word of God' with his or her interpretation of it, and absolutism that for all. In the Catholic Church we have only ever claimed that one person is infallible. In fundamentalist Churches, everyone is infallible".

AMEN! Love it. And the cherry-picking convenient picks are there too. I know a non-denominational couple whose church is fundamentalist and just may as well align with the Southern Baptists. They believe oh yes, the man is the head of the household, but the wife works full-time and I believe makes just as much, if not more money than her husband and has a higher education, (college vs. the husband's high school diploma) works a professional job where she has to make authoritative decisions. Yet on Sundays, at church, she will meekly sit there as the female secondary role. What a contradiction. Again, MAN wrote the Bible. In the New Testament, the whole "I do not permit women to teach" (1 Timothy 2:12), uhm, who is I?? It doesn't say "God". I don't need "Timothy" ordering my life.

[avenger]

[QUOTE=Rivendoah]


What a contradiction. Again, MAN wrote the Bible. In the New Testament, the whole "I do not permit women to teach" (1 Timothy 2:12), uhm, who is I?? It doesn't say "God". I don't need "Timothy" ordering my life.

Exactly. 'I' just means the author of the First Epistle to Timothy. But Christians operate on a weird hermeneutic that says anytime a text in the Bible says 'I', it's God speaking through the man like a ventriloquist. There is no good or responsible reason to read the Bible like this, yet they do anyway.

I respect the vision of Bible Christianity, but they fall WAY short on the actual reading and applying it part.

Feel free to tell "Paul" to shove it if he says something absurd. He's only a man, not God, nor is he a dummy used in the infallible ventriloquism of God.

The Bible has so much to teach us. But like any other book, you are responsible for holding to the good and disposing of the bad using your intellect and intuition.

[chakragal]

Well said Avenger!! And actually, I probably should have said I don't need "Paul" ordering my life, as I think he may have been the author, and I guess the recipient was Timothy. (LOL, I'm not a Bible scholar-did some studying of it, but not in an academic or fundamentalist sense). My issue with the New Testament is sometimes everything BUT the four gospels. As for the OT, there are many beautiful psalms, proverbs, etc, and I appreciate quite some of the precepts, as long as it is not putting anyone down, or into a secondary role. Same as the nice words in the NT that aren't the gospels, such as in 1 Corinthians 13: 4-7 about love is patient, love is kind. Definite good precept to live by. But another example of fundamentalists not even listening to their own Bible is when some of them (not all) haughtily and HATEFULLY condemn people. I'd like to say, excuse, me love is KIND and you're supposed to LOVE, so why not act like the Jesus you say you worship!!

[gatesofgrace]

LadyScarletmoon,

Are you still looking for an answer to your question? It doesn't appear you have replied to the latter pages of posts. I believe i can offer an insight. The truth is all denominations fall short in their attempts to understand the divine aspirations in same-sex relations. Yet, just as all are welcomed to attend and while all are knowingly flawed, same-sex orientation should likewise not be a catalyst for divisiveness. Sadly, such things are seldom realized and understood.

[Sentientno1]

The Uniterian Universalist church has a welcoming policy re gays. Gays are regarded as equal in all church business and activities.
i belonged to one church for 2 years before realising 2 of the main people involved were a female couple with an adopted daughter.

[Time]

There was an article about some branch of christianity church who is accepting openly gay ministers and priests......

[Lex]

I hate to say it. I'm not usually quite so cynical, but I think a large part of recent "attitude" changes within the church hierarchies is likely due more to a shortage of priests and ministers than anything else. I read recently that the Catholic church, in particular, is closing many of their churches. Why? The number one reason - lack of priests. The number two reason - the churches aren't making a profit. I kid you not.

During my latest trip to Rome, I visited St Peter's. I stood in a very long line for the chance to ride an elevator 3/4 way up to the top of the basilica and then, to walk 340 very narrow, very steep steps to actually walk around the top of the dome and look down on the backs of the 12 apostle saints statues. Judging by the number of people and the cost for this privilege, I estimated the Catholic church took in between 900 thousand and 1 million Euro...daily -
seven days a week!

Inside you can light a prayer candle in any of the several chapels. That costs 20 cents to turn on an electric candle that burns for about 10 minutes.

My point? Hmmm, I guess I got a little off track. My point...the decision to hire gay ministers and priests in not so much due to a change in dogma or policy; rather, it is an act of expediency and marketing.

[Student4Life1975]

I'm looking for a belief system that will not consitantly say i'm going to hell because i'm a lesbian....do u know of any?
buddism?

i'm not sure. but if there isnt one, then its not worth pursuing anyways...

[jojo50]

I'm looking for a belief system that will not consitantly say i'm going to hell because i'm a lesbian....do u know of any?

there's NO "hellfire" many don't understand what Jesus really mean here,(Matt.25:41-Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels), (if hell suppose to be a place where demons reside, and wicked dead are tortured. then why did Jesus say an everlasting fire would be waiting for them? how can fire destroy demons,if the ALREADY live there,waiting to "burn us with fire?

and notice this...(Jonah 2:1,2- Then Jonah prayed unto the LORD his God out of the fish's belly,And said, I cried by reason of mine affliction unto the LORD, and he heard me; out of the belly of hell cried I, and thou heardest my voice.( was Jonah being tortured by demons?, was there fire in the fish belly?…no!). and (Psa.16:8-11- shows David ,(a faithful man) ,talking about God not leaving his soul in hell, not even to see corruption, (decaying). Notice David saying… “my flesh also shall rest in hope“ (if the false teachings of hell was a place demons torture the wicked and sinners, why would David say “his flesh shall rest? Hell wouldn‘t be in a place of resting).

it's a false teaching, Because Jesus means total destruction, since fire totally destroys things)!

i don't mean to be offenseive,but ANY..who has a place of worship for those living the lifestyle. are NOT ministers of Jehovah God,and most definately NOT followers of Jesus. to focus on Jesus for a bit,(because many are taught Jesus is the Father). he would NOT go against what his Father wants. if his Father is against the lifestyle,so will Jesus be. therefore Jesus would NOT choose any to teach it's ok. because he and is Father is of one,(John 10:30 I and my Father are one). meaning not that they are the same being,as many are taught).

true ministers of God,though they would teach AL men,they WON'T go against God's word. and Jehovah,his son Jesus, and ALL Heavenly beings feels this way...(Levi.Levi.-18:22 Thou shalt not lie with mankind, as with womankind: it is abomination. 18:23 Neither shalt thou lie with any beast to defile thyself therewith: neither shall any woman stand before a beast to lie down thereto: it is confusion).

this isn't to say God doesn't love us, but many refuse to live the way God says we should. many of us don't want to follow the truth,not to mention even learn it, (Pro.1:28-31 ,Then shall they call upon me, but I will not answer; they shall seek me early, but they shall not find me: For that they hated knowledge, and did not choose the fear of the LORD: They would none of my counsel: they despised all my reproof. Therefore shall they eat of the fruit of their own way, and be filled with their own devices). so for the many who say,"god answers every prayer" no he doesn't, because many either don't want to serve him,or serve him right!


still he wants us to change the way we onced lived,our wordly ways...
(1).1John 2:15,16- Love not the world, neither the things that are in the world. If any man love the world, the love of the Father is not in him. For all that is in the world, the lust of the flesh, and the lust of the eyes, and the pride of life, is not of the Father, but is of the world.

(2).Rom.12:2 And be not conformed to this world: but be ye transformed by the renewing of your mind, that ye may prove what is that good, and acceptable, and perfect, will of God,(Christians must change their worldly ways).

(3).1Pet.1:14 As obedient children, not fashioning yourselves according to the former lusts in your ignorance.(servants of Jehovah shouldn’t do the things they once did that goes against God).

yet many will see these words,(not even mine), and try to ignore them but trying to made them mean something else. these are the ones who will lose their lives,but NOT go to a hellfire. God loves ALL of us,even those who don't either love him,or believe in him. but he's NOT one to play with,(Gal.6:7 -Be not deceived; God is not mocked: for whatsoever a man soweth, that shall he also reap).

many wants to live their life the way they choose,yet say i follow Jesus. believing in Jesus, alone isn't going to save anyone. this includes all of us who say we follow Jesus. we must live in accordance to Jesus Father's will,
(Matt.7:21 Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven). so those who tell you,you're going to a false hell/hellfire. really need to go place themselves in check. because many who say "lord, lord" are some of the biggest fornicators and adulterers. sitting in their place of worship yelling " hallelujah", not believing they're on that same road to destruction.

if you want to follow Jesus, truely, you have to do research on how God feel concerning your lifestyle. Learn what Jesus said concerning his Father's words. then you have to figure out,if you're more important than Jesus and his Father Jehovah God. if you're honest with yourself,you'll know what road to travel. if you choose the latter, then as the scriptues above shows. you HAVE to change your old ways. i wish you the best, peace :smile:

[astralsuzy]

I have not read the other responses. I have not heard of any friendly gay religions. I have no time for religions that discriminate against people. I believe God does not discriminate against people who are gay or are different in any way. I stay away from religions that put fear into people and if they do not accept you for what you are. What sort of religion is that? You are better off without it. You do not need that rubbish.

[Pernix]

Pandeism :hug3: :hug3: :hug3: .. btw I am a Pandeist and would welcome you with open arms with Peace, Love and Joy

look up the Padeism on the Youtube and select Padeism it explains it quite well

[Samana]

I've never seen any discrimination against gays in offline Buddhist groups.


:icon_flower:

[truther]

THE AGAPE CENTER IS VERY GAY FRIENDLY! :wink:

[indiesongwriter]

There are a lot of UCC churches (United Church of Christ) that are open and accepting. Also, the Quakers and the Unitarians are often very progressive. There is actually a website called gaychurch.org that lists all the lgbtq friendly churches that they know of across the world. Here is the link with ones in Utah: http://www.gaychurch.org/Find_a_Church/united_states/us_utah.htm . As far as the other major world religions go, I'm not sure of there stances. I read Hinduism actually does not have a concept of sexual orientation and the Vedas promote same sex relations as healthy. However, due to British colonial laws homosexualiyt was outlawed in INdia until very recently and some factions of Hindus are homophobic now while others are open and affirming.

[A. Consumer]

This may not be a religion but in his book Revelations of 2012 The Prophet of Life writes that all people have "Determining Factors" things like size, shape, skin color and sexual orientation which they are born with and have no control over and that people are not judged by their determining factors. He also writes that gay people are incrrectly made to suffer because they are different and that "The Lord loves all people equally whether they are male, female or transgender and that while many people would condem them for being gay, bi-sexual or transgender, The Lord does not. I hope this is helpful.

[Chalk1990]

You don't need to be apart of a religion to feel accepted. Just have faith, and trust God, don't be deceived by what religions say about being homosexual, and how it will bring consequences. God is the creator of all things, and therefore he is the creator of our sexual desires. Also, there is homosexuality in the animal kingdom too, but no animal is judging another for how they act, why should we? Why would God punish us for being who he made us to be?

You can create your own belief system, just like I did. I incorporate different ideas from different belief systems into my own spirituality. No human has power over me, only God does, and since God loves everyone, and everything, what I believe in doesn't matter.

[HabitAnimal]

I'm looking for a belief system that will not consitantly say i'm going to hell because i'm a lesbian....do u know of any?
This was a question asked on "Yahoo Answers" some time ago.


United Church of Christ

Metropolitan Community Churches

Unitarian Universalist Association of Congregations (Aka UU Church)

Religious Society of Friends (Quakers)

Reform and Reconstructionist Judaism

Buddhism

Neo-Pagan groups are usually very accepting of gays.
Dianic Wicca is constructed to revere the Goddess alone and very often features entire covens comprised of Lesbians, so as to empower female energy and overcome any and all sex discrimination and oppression through community, rituals and rite.

Also, remember you can always find what tenets of a/any religion(s) that speak to your inner spirit and blend them into a faith you can hold dear.

Personally, I think if there was a higher power, a supreme (to humans) being, it would be impossible for our limited intellect to comprehend it's awesomeness. Much like a gnat trying to speak English so we could understand.
Ergo, I feel if there is a Deity it is incumbent upon that supremacy to believe in us.

So find your truth, I say, and don't live by other peoples philosophies that deem to speak for a god we could never understand as anything but our self, using nothing more than our imagination.

If you want to see goddess, look in the mirror. If you need a church, look around. Earth be it. If you need ritual, honor every moment of your one and only life.

Because you shall never be here again and there will never ever be another like you, even if you're a twin.

And if you need prayer, dream big. If you want answers to those, strive to make dreams into a reality. Seeking the best for yourself because you know you're worth nothing less.

And if you need to be saved, start by standing on your own two feet , be responsible for your life, give generously, love deeply, laugh heartily, weep sincerely, dance brilliantly, and live as if this moment may be your last. Because it just may be. And in the end, when the whisper of final darkness calls your name home, don't look back with any regrets because it's way too late for those to matter. Instead, feel who you are and know you lived you, sincerely while everything you did, good or bad, made you who you are and shall be remembered as, when you close your eyes forever.

Remember, there's a difference between religion and spirituality. :wink:

:hug: Many blessings as you seek to find on your journey.

[Wildfire1992]

LOL..sorry..but isn't that a gay stigma you're carrying? If you weren't gay would it matter anyway? I'd say, just be yourself and like you for who you are and ignore what others think. :smile:

I would have to agree.

I'm lesbian myself and I live in a small southeren town so I know what your going though. Just hang in there hun:hug2:

[MMM]

spiritualism
spiritist
anybody mention those?

[Bluegreen]

I am aware of the fact that many people don't believe in Christianity but the truth of falsity of a belief exists independently of whether or not anyone believes it. I have a responsibility to tell people the truth whether or not they believe it.

Theophilus, what arrogance.
Not in a million years would I dare say that I know the truth.

[LadyTerra]

You must seek--go on your own personal journey--until you find the belief system that is accepting of and speaks to you.

I know that the way I see it--as a legally ordained Pagan Minister--you have both the Goddess and the God within you--which (actually) places you closer to Them than I could ever be--both genetically and spiritually speaking.

I was raised Anglican/Catholic and searched for many years--before I finally relized that I was not a "Christian".

Peace and Love on the path of your choice...

Blessed be...

[Charlies Angel]

I'm looking for a belief system that will not consitantly say i'm going to hell because i'm a lesbian....do u know of any?


I found that I didn't really fit in with Christianity, especially not orthodox Christianity because of the harsh views on matters such as sexuality. I share some of the ideals and beliefs of Christianity, I was raised Church Of England, protestant. But I guess I was too questioning and there was a lot I didn't believe or feel was right.

If Jesus is all loving, why does is the religion (in general) homophobic? If God made us in his image, why are only heterosexuals "normal". Why is it considered blasphemous to even ask that and all that that would imply?

I have my roots in Christianity, but I disagree strongly in the way the orthodox church tries to control peoples lives and sexuality. It's one thing to have a strong moral code and another entirely to try to make someone something they are not. Does God not want us to be happy? Would the almighty being want you to suffer by trying to appeal to a hetero normative society in a sham marriage to a man?

I strongly believe that as long as we love it doesn't matter who we love. Don't you ever accept anyone telling you that you will go to Hell for being true to yourself. Unfortunately, there are countless lost souls who can't move on because on Earth they were told they'd go to Hell. Who are we as mortal humans to judge another person and tell them they are going to Hell?

[Vaughn]

Belonged to Unitarian, they only had about six clubs for gays, lesbian, bisexual and transgender, and regularly sponsored both legislative support, walked in marches...other than that not very supportive ... just kidding. lol

Swedenborg Assembly is pretty damm open too.

[kinneretov]

the belief system doesnt distinguish between lasbien or stright people.
it suppose to recieve everyone equally.

[geri]

Try religious science. Here is a web site you can look at: creativelivingfellowship.com This one is in Arizona. They will not judge you! Your friend, Geri

[Yassi]

if one doesn't like the existing religions s/he can creat her/his own one. :smile:

[mailey1974]

To be honest most religions are anti homo.But really you do not need religion nor church.Most religions is a waste of time.

[baro-san]

if one doesn't like the existing religions s/he can create her/his own one. :smile:My thoughts exactly! :smile:

You shouldn't ask them to change as you don't want them to ask you to change!

[markings]

You must simply look for progressive or liberal 'sects' of Christian Churches. Even in Islam there is now a liberal mosque in Berlin and soon in London, iirc.

[baro-san]

"progressive" ... another hijacked word

[Ariaecheflame]

In Christian churches - I believe that the Uniting church has leanings towards acceptance of many groups of people which many other churches reject and or condemn. Unfortunately though a lot of churches are still seriously behind the ball - stuck in old and tired beliefs. Even the liberal churches can be a bit of a snore fest when it comes to being relevant in a modern world.

Have you done a google search as well? Many cities (depending on where you live) will list LGBTI/ queer friendly organisations.

You could also start your own - a member of my local LGBTI community approached spiritual businesses and liberal church organisations to put out feelers and has now started up a queer friendly church - it is more a safe place for spiritual discussion.

I hope that you find an inclusive spiritual community which resonates with you.

[Volaju]

Shinto. Though there are very few followers of the belief at this point.

[Gem]

I'm looking for a belief system that will not consitantly say i'm going to hell because i'm a lesbian....do u know of any?
I think you'll find that people who aren;t conforming to the male/female ciz straight gender paradigm will always be classed as 'abnormal' in some way because culture as a whole is predominantly concerned with its continuation through the generations - which means culture rests on a sexually reproductive imperative.

Hence when a child is born the first words applied to the subject is 'it's a boy' or 'it's a girl' (even peoples' names are gender appropriate), and sex is then institutionally organised starting with the birth certificate. In this way culture is predicated on a binary discourse about sex.

The next thing to consider is how 'normalcy' is required to maintain social order, and from this biological imperative the social organisation of gender roles begins in earliest childhood with colour associations, and play things, and later on, sexuality is organised through institutions like marriage and family structure so that physical reproduction can be socially organised in order to maintain the reproduction of culture - which is wholly reliant on the social order predicated mostly by sexual/gender norms.

When people deviate as homsexuals, transgenders and so forth, the most fundamental social norms are undermined, so it is perceived masculinity and femininity genders are undermined, that 'boy' and 'girl' are meaningless, which in turn threatens the most fundamental basis of the civilisation we call 'culture'.

Luckily, norms change over time, but it takes a while for people in society to view sex and gender in a new way. Many still insist on the dual sex paradigm, and therefore the distinct gender binary, not because it is true per-se, but because it threatens their identity as masculine and feminine, which of course they defend quite aggressively. In reality there are different ways to understand sex and gender, but ultimately, culture and society depend on the reproductive imperative and will probably always favour and advantage those who conform to binary gender norms.