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nightowl
30-03-2011, 08:25 PM
I came across this info while researching the 4 elements in the Bible. I am not a Hebrew scholar:wink: so I am hoping others can help clarify just how accurate this info is, I find it fascinating...

"The Four Elements are considered anti-Christian and Pagan by many Christian sects. This is the basic foundation of all Mysticism including Christian Mysticism. The four elements are Fire, Air, Water and Earth. They have been represented in Christianity from the very beginning in various ways. A very complete study of the Elements is to be found in the work of Franz Bardon. Here are some brief analogies. The four elements are represented by the four letter Hebrew word spelled Iod(fire) He(Air) Vau(Water) He(Earth). These four letters spell IODHEVAUHE - also pronounced Jehovah....The fact that the elements are represented by the name Jehovah (Iod, He, Vau, He) they represent primordial ever-present substances and forces unknown to most but used and implemented by all engaged in the normal activity of everyday life. Their scope is well defined by Franz Bardon. The Holy Father allows us to use this primary life outflow out of His being. "
http://www.amaluxherbal.com/bmysticism/christian_mysticism_and_the_occult.htm

Thank you in advance for your assistance. :hug3:

nightowl

RabbiO
31-03-2011, 02:21 AM
Odd mangling of the English spelling of the Hebrew letters of G-d's name which is not, by the way, pronounced as below.

The information is out there if you want to explore the concept of the 4 elements in Judaism as well as the interrelationship with the concept of the 4 worlds, but I can't give you a short explanation and I don't have the time to give you a long one.

B'shalom,

Peter

I came across this info while researching the 4 elements in the Bible. I am not a Hebrew scholar:wink: so I am hoping others can help clarify just how accurate this info is, I find it fascinating...

"The Four Elements are considered anti-Christian and Pagan by many Christian sects. This is the basic foundation of all Mysticism including Christian Mysticism. The four elements are Fire, Air, Water and Earth. They have been represented in Christianity from the very beginning in various ways. A very complete study of the Elements is to be found in the work of Franz Bardon. Here are some brief analogies. The four elements are represented by the four letter Hebrew word spelled Iod(fire) He(Air) Vau(Water) He(Earth). These four letters spell IODHEVAUHE - also pronounced Jehovah....The fact that the elements are represented by the name Jehovah (Iod, He, Vau, He) they represent primordial ever-present substances and forces unknown to most but used and implemented by all engaged in the normal activity of everyday life. Their scope is well defined by Franz Bardon. The Holy Father allows us to use this primary life outflow out of His being. "
http://www.amaluxherbal.com/bmysticism/christian_mysticism_and_the_occult.htm (http://www.spiritualforums.com/vb/redir.php?link=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.amaluxherbal.com%2 Fbmysticism%2Fchristian_mysticism_and_the_occult.h tm)

Thank you in advance for your assistance. :hug3:

nightowl

nightowl
31-03-2011, 02:32 AM
Thank you RabbiO for taking a look at this post. I will research it as you suggest as the 4 elements in Judaism. I am curious though what is the 4 worlds hmmm will have to look that up as well. :smile:

Honza
13-04-2011, 09:12 PM
I have heard of the relationship between the four elements and Judaism too.

It goes back to the time when I was interested in the Tarot Cards. The four elements feature heavily in those and relate to the four suits of the cards.

Wands = Fire
Cups = Water
Swords = Air
Pentacles = Earth

And also;

Wands = Spirit
Cups = Heart
Swords = Mind
Pentacles = Body

This all ties in with the Tree Of Life and the 10 centres of the Tree (Sephira?) which are represented by the numbers 1-10 in the Tarot Cards.

It is all very interesting, but I doubt it has much to do with mainstream Judaism.

nightowl
14-04-2011, 02:41 AM
I have heard of the relationship between the four elements and Judaism too.

It goes back to the time when I was interested in the Tarot Cards. The four elements feature heavily in those and relate to the four suits of the cards.

Wands = Fire
Cups = Water
Swords = Air
Pentacles = Earth

And also;

Wands = Spirit
Cups = Heart
Swords = Mind
Pentacles = Body

This all ties in with the Tree Of Life and the 10 centres of the Tree (Sephira?) which are represented by the numbers 1-10 in the Tarot Cards.

It is all very interesting, but I doubt it has much to do with mainstream Judaism.


Your right Honza I believe it is more tied to Kabbalah with a New Age twist. Thanks for sharing!:smile:

Honza
14-04-2011, 06:01 AM
Your right Honza I believe it is more tied to Kabbalah with a New Age twist. Thanks for sharing!:smile:

Yes exactly. It relates to the Kabbalah. Which many people interpret in their own way regardless.

And why not? :hug3:

nightowl
14-04-2011, 09:14 PM
Yes exactly. It relates to the Kabbalah. Which many people interpret in their own way regardless.

And why not? :hug3:

So Honza have you studied much in Kabbalah? I find some of the reading very insightful. I believe God can speak to me in any way and Kabbalah readings are in the fore front at the moment. I must admit that I am really more interested in the view from Judaism as opposed to New Age...of course it is a wee bit more involved doing it this way but that is how I am being lead at the moment :color:

Honza
15-04-2011, 11:53 PM
I have not studied much Kabbalah at all I'm afraid. I studied the Tarot Cards and the Kabbalah as an offshoot from that.

I don't know much about the teachings in the Torah. Which is where the Kabbalah is taught I believe? But it certainly is a subject which I am interested in.

The Tree Of Life! A great subject. I tend to take teachings from all over the place and interpret them in my own way. Trying not to compromise the orginals.

nightowl
16-04-2011, 12:30 AM
I have not studied much Kabbalah at all I'm afraid. I studied the Tarot Cards and the Kabbalah as an offshoot from that.

I don't know much about the teachings in the Torah. Which is where the Kabbalah is taught I believe? But it certainly is a subject which I am interested in.

The Tree Of Life! A great subject. I tend to take teachings from all over the place and interpret them in my own way. Trying not to compromise the orginals.

Yeah, I feel the same way, I like to try and study from the cultural perspective of the origins as well. I know this is not 100% possible but I do try to respect the cultures from which they came.

Yamah
06-09-2011, 07:33 AM
can't believe nobody answered this post properly... now that I'm back in the forums I will make it my nosey business to do so :P

In Kabbalah, the four elements are 'Esh' meaning Fire, 'Mayim' meaning Water, 'Ruach' meaning Wind (the same word being used for Spirit) and 'Afar' meaning Dust.

The number four has many other correspondences in Judaism. I got the following list from inner.org:

Worlds:

Four elements of the physical world: fire, air, water, and earth.
Solid, liquid, gas, combustion.
Hydrogen, carbon, nitrogen, oxygen.
The four physical forces: gravity, electromagnetic, strong, weak.
Man, animal, vegetable, and inanimate objects.
Four seasons of the year; Four directions.
The four worlds: Atzilut, Beriah, Yetzirah, and Asiyah.

Souls:

Four matriarchs: Sarah, Rebecca, Rachel, and Leah.
Jacob's four wives: Rachel, Leah, Bilhah, and Zilpah.
The four sons and the four cups of wine of the Seder
The four expressions (levels) of redemption.
Four feet of the Divine Throne: Abraham, Isaac, Jacob, and David.
Father, mother, son, daughter: the first commandment of the Torah: "be fruitful and multiply."

Divinity:

Four letters of God's Name.
Four components of the Torah text.
Four basic levels of Torah interpretation.


Any time you find the number 4, in nature or in scripture, a parallel can be made. The archetype of four exists at all levels and is distinguished identically in the context within which it is found. The four elements happen to be the simplest conception of the number four and thus is a good starting point to parallel the rest to... but just know that the four letters of God's name don't correspond to the elements, nor do the four worlds correspond to them... it is that all fours follow the same underlying pattern. It would be more correct, in fact, to say that the four elements correspond to the letters of God's name - because He existed First.

But I digress... the four elements are considered the same way in Judaism as in Alchemy - everything in the world is composed of one or more of each of them. We can see a couple clear examples in the first few chapters of the Torah.

The word 'Shamayim', meaning 'Heavens', is a composite of 'Esh' and 'Mayim'... Fire and Water.

Man was created by 'breathing' into dust; Earth and Air.

It is important to note that Kabbalah is a text-based system and is 100% based on the Torah. Thus, when one is in doubt about the meaning of a certain word one must turn to the Torah for illumination. What I have cited are considered to be two of the primary sources for defining the characteristics of the four elements.

The process for the creation of a Golem, the most commonly cited Kabbalistic ritual, involves the use of all four elements. Other Kabbalistic rituals may involve fewer elements but they always involve at least one.

It was asked above and I will mention in brief... the 'four world' of Kabbalah, more accurately described as 'the four concentric levels of reality', are as follows:
'Atziluth' - The World of Emanations. This is a world that can never be reached, experienced or comprehended by human consciousness. The most accurate analogy that can be given is a world of different 'coloured' 'lights' which are the roots of existence of all things.
'Beriah' - The World of Creation. This is a world at the upper limits of human consciousness, which can be perceived only by those with the highest degree of enlightenment. It is also termed 'The World of Forces' for within it are all the different powers which weave the web of reality.
'Yetzirah' - The World of Formation. This is a world above standard human consciousness but can be accessed by prophets. It is a vast and 'empty' plane where angels and other beings of pure soul reside. This world is acts primarily as a conduit between the Forces and Reality.
'Assiah' - The World of Action. This is a vast world of which physical reality is the Lowest Expression. Only an enlightened mind can perceive the higher reaches of this world. Within Assiah is contained our world, all the laws governing our world (including the concepts of 'time' and 'space' themselves), and quasi-spiritual entities such as Demons.

nightowl
06-09-2011, 06:50 PM
Thanks Yamah, for sharing this info, I love the detail you included in your post.

nightowl

A Glass named Esther
12-09-2011, 11:54 PM
can't believe nobody answered this post properly... now that I'm back in the forums I will make it my nosey business to do so :P


I remember hearing somewhere something like... if you are the one to notice that something needs to be done, then it was meant for you to do ;)

Welcome back Yamah:)

So strange,I haven't been around here for a while myself. Decided to check back in after thinking about you today out of the blue.

-Esther

kimbal
29-09-2011, 09:20 AM
I came across this info while researching the 4 elements in the Bible. I am not a Hebrew scholar:wink: so I am hoping others can help clarify just how accurate this info is, I find it fascinating...

"The Four Elements are considered anti-Christian and Pagan by many Christian sects. This is the basic foundation of all Mysticism including Christian Mysticism. The four elements are Fire, Air, Water and Earth. They have been represented in Christianity from the very beginning in various ways. A very complete study of the Elements is to be found in the work of Franz Bardon. Here are some brief analogies. The four elements are represented by the four letter Hebrew word spelled Iod(fire) He(Air) Vau(Water) He(Earth). These four letters spell IODHEVAUHE - also pronounced Jehovah....The fact that the elements are represented by the name Jehovah (Iod, He, Vau, He) they represent primordial ever-present substances and forces unknown to most but used and implemented by all engaged in the normal activity of everyday life. Their scope is well defined by Franz Bardon. The Holy Father allows us to use this primary life outflow out of His being. "

Thank you in advance for your assistance. :hug3:

nightowl
-------------------------------------
In answer to the above reference - I read it through and basically agree with the body of information presented there in the URL.

I do know that Jehovah was at one time the predeluvian moon god ( though this is disputed by many authorities ) and known as NANNA, or later called Nanna-sin, or simply SIN. He use to present himself on Mount Sinai, or Mt.Sin to Moses.

Now this is where it gets interesting, because Genesis 1:1 uses the word Elohim ( plural ) in the original Hebrew, not God (singular). Elohim is plural for Lords, or gods. The Elohim where the Els, and the Els were an ET stellar race of deities known also as the Elder gods.

If one likes to read the Babylonian Genesis called the - Enuma-Enlish, you will find that the Elder gods were a break away renegade group of deities who stole the tables of destiny from Tiamat. Tiamat was the creator and mother who bore all things. She was the divine serpent.

The owner of these - Tablets of Destiny ( also called the ME ) - could rightfully call themselves the "Supreme Being" if they had possession of the tablets.

This hotly fought issue of stealing these tablets from various gods is discussed in - The story of Zu - as found in the book - Ancient and Near Eastern Texts - by Pritchard (1950).

The tablets had the ability to create life when properly used by the owner. When Nanna ( The Ancient of Days ), stole the tablets he was able to establish himself as the universal ruler calling himself "the God above all gods".

He also derived the name Yahweh (YHWH) from the four quadrants of the tablets making a sacred name or acronym form each of its letters YHWH or Yod-He-Wah-He correlate to the 4 elementals - fire, water, air and earth.

When he appeared to Moses, he kept his original name ( Nanna who had no real power without the tablets ) and former identity a secret.

As time went on, this secret became so distorted that the Jews refused to utter the name based on magical superstition and in so doing people just got into the habit of saying "the Lord" when ever Jehovah ( Yahweh ) was referred to.

This story goes much deeper than what I have covered here - but it gives you and idea of how the name came into being.

Medieval understandings of the use of Jehovah through the early Church are basically correct, but they don't go deep enough into the background and origin of the name.

Regards - Kimbal

nightowl
29-09-2011, 11:05 PM
-------------------------------------
In answer to the above reference - I read it through and basically agree with the body of information presented there in the URL.

I do know that Jehovah was at one time the predeluvian moon god ( though this is disputed by many authorities ) and known as NANNA, or later called Nanna-sin, or simply SIN. He use to present himself on Mount Sinai, or Mt.Sin to Moses.

Now this is where it gets interesting, because Genesis 1:1 uses the word Elohim ( plural ) in the original Hebrew, not God (singular). Elohim is plural for Lords, or gods. The Elohim where the Els, and the Els were an ET stellar race of deities known also as the Elder gods.

If one likes to read the Babylonian Genesis called the - Enuma-Enlish, you will find that the Elder gods were a break away renegade group of deities who stole the tables of destiny from Tiamat. Tiamat was the creator and mother who bore all things. She was the divine serpent.

The owner of these - Tablets of Destiny ( also called the ME ) - could rightfully call themselves the "Supreme Being" if they had possession of the tablets.

This hotly fought issue of stealing these tablets from various gods is discussed in - The story of Zu - as found in the book - Ancient and Near Eastern Texts - by Pritchard (1950).

The tablets had the ability to create life when properly used by the owner. When Nanna ( The Ancient of Days ), stole the tablets he was able to establish himself as the universal ruler calling himself "the God above all gods".

He also derived the name Yahweh (YHWH) from the four quadrants of the tablets making a sacred name or acronym form each of its letters YHWH or Yod-He-Wah-He correlate to the 4 elementals - fire, water, air and earth.

When he appeared to Moses, he kept his original name ( Nanna who had no real power without the tablets ) and former identity a secret.

As time went on, this secret became so distorted that the Jews refused to utter the name based on magical superstition and in so doing people just got into the habit of saying "the Lord" when ever Jehovah ( Yahweh ) was referred to.

This story goes much deeper than what I have covered here - but it gives you and idea of how the name came into being.

Medieval understandings of the use of Jehovah through the early Church are basically correct, but they don't go deep enough into the background and origin of the name.

Regards - Kimbal

Thanks Kimbal,

This is very interesting stuff, I haven't heard of any of this, I will have to go digging around to read more on the things you have shared. :smile:

Yamah
05-10-2011, 10:19 AM
um... Kimbal... you do realize that is all academic nonsense and by no means a traditional interpretation from the people to whom the book was given?

iluvthelight
13-10-2011, 03:45 PM
It takes a lot of reading, separating, and meditation to figure out what is true and what is not. The beauty of Franz Bardon's works on Hermeticism is that the author has personal experience with the information in his books, Initiation into Hermetics, Practice of Magical Evocation, Key to the True Kabbalah. This information can be turned into knowledge by understanding. Bardon builds his platform using the four elements, and sets out the theory before the practice. Hermetics was taught in Egypt by Hermes Trismegistos (one of Bardon's many lives), but was only available to very few. Christianity considers this to be pagan because the church has forfeited truth, which gives one the power to develop spiritually. That's what Franz Bardon's books provide -- the knowledge to develop spiritually without need for any type of organization or church or group. The Kingdom of God is in every person and it's up to the individual to bring that kingdom to light. That's what the Bardon books do.

RabbiO
13-10-2011, 05:57 PM
It takes a lot of reading, separating, and meditation to figure out what is true and what is not. The beauty of Franz Bardon's works on Hermeticism is that the author has personal experience with the information in his books, Initiation into Hermetics, Practice of Magical Evocation, Key to the True Kabbalah. This information can be turned into knowledge by understanding. Bardon builds his platform using the four elements, and sets out the theory before the practice. Hermetics was taught in Egypt by Hermes Trismegistos (one of Bardon's many lives), but was only available to very few. Christianity considers this to be pagan because the church has forfeited truth, which gives one the power to develop spiritually. That's what Franz Bardon's books provide -- the knowledge to develop spiritually without need for any type of organization or church or group. The Kingdom of God is in every person and it's up to the individual to bring that kingdom to light. That's what the Bardon books do.

I guess every thread needs to break for commercials.

B'shalom,

Peter