Aversion to god/christianity

[Sangress]

I was debating whether to put this here, because I thought i would offend people. But I'm not insulting the religion of Christianity or anything related to it, just looking for opinions from people who know more about Christianity than I do.

All my life I've had an aversion to god and anything christian related.

The sight or mention of anything christian related makes my hackles rise every single time, makes my skin crawl, makes me feel so horribly malevolent and irrational, hateful and generally wanting to just laugh in a sneery kind of way.

It really surprises me and nothing else gets that kind of reaction from me. I have no idea of where these emotions come up from, but they are there and they belong to me.

I've tried to research the religion, tried to ask my sister about it, tried to empathize with it and understand and feel something other than these overpowering negative vibes.....but after years of endeavoring against the emotions to find truth it has not changed.

It seems so ridiculous and hypocritical to me that I cannot seem to help but feel this way about Christianity and the beliefs and history involved with it.

I know that this religion has helped people all around the world and shaped our world as we know it. It brings hope to peoples lives and inspires generosity too.

I have no reason not to like Christianity...yet here I am, still feeling utterly hateful of it.

Why and how on earth can I feel this way?

Has anyone come across someone else reacting this way to Christianity?

Can anyone find a reason for this?

I'm at my wits end with trying to understand why I react this way, so hopefully others might be able to help me see a different perspective and help me understand these feelings.

I apologize for offending anyone and have no want for this thread to be come an argument. I have my best intentions in mind.

Thank you

[Murciélago]

I don't like it either. Crosses hurt my eyes (crucifixes less so but still it feels like my eyes are being clawed) I feel the need to sneer and act horrible also. Something I noticed is that the symbols bother me a whole lot more when they are used by/worn/in the home of devot christians. I've also had crosses bared against me so im not exactly nuetral.

A christian would probably say you're possessed by a demon or some nonsense like that.

[Silver]

It's basically gotta be the hypocracy that all of us are witness to in this world. From child-molesting priests and clergy and the gargantuan coverup for since forever, to politicians hiding behind a false belief to garner votes. It's pretty upsetting to 'real' christians or anyone with a sense of what's right and wrong, if you believe in that sort of thing. We all live with it and any thinking person knows it's humanity's cross to bear.

[Shabda]

a past life with negative experiences somehow relating to a christian or christianity??

[Sangress]

I don't like it either. Crosses hurt my eyes (crucifixes less so but still it feels like my eyes are being clawed) I feel the need to sneer and act horrible also.

*grins in relief* It's good to know that I'm not alone in this and that other people experience what I have...or part of what I have at least.

When I'm near christian symbols (even if I can't see it) I get like a twinge behind my eyes that is really painful and I get a pounding migraine that comes in stronger waves the closer I get.

I had an incident involving a cross when I was young, about 10 or 11, when a friend of mine was in intensive care and his mother was praying in the waiting room, clutching a cross.

She offered me the cross and I said no (because even then I hated it) but she insisted because "everyone needs prayer sometimes." So I held it, a little silver cross...nothing special...and after about 20 seconds it heated up and I gave it back to the woman and told her never to put that thing near me again.

I had welts on my hand for 3 days.

I never told anyone about it, was too freaked out at the time since my spiritual experience until then had only comprised of subconscious energetic reading and lots of past life flashbacks.

Nothing like the cross incident has happened again, I've made sure to keep away from it. It sounds surreal, though I do notice stones and crystals heat up occasionally as well...but not to that extent and not in an angry way like that cross did.


A christian would probably say you're possessed by a demon or some nonsense like that.

My sister did exorcisms with her church...etc. Used to call me a demon child but I never listened to her, I just laughed it off.
Never bothered me until much later on like now, when other aspects of who I am make me question whether I am in fact "demonic"....But I want to avoid that sort of thing because the word demon is steeped in so many stereotypes ...etc

It's basically gotta be the hypocracy that all of us are witness to in this world.
I contemplated this on and off for about 3 years and I've decided that that is not the case because I can tell that I am not cross referencing or connecting Christianity to certain people being hypocrites or liars.

People don't need to be christian to lie and pretend to be someone they are not....people who are christian just seem to be more well known since what they do apparently goes against their faith.

I don't automatically hate all Christians because of some kind of reputation the bad ones have gained. I have a couple of good friends who are christian (who find that it is best not to talk about their faith or wear crosses...etc around me from their own experience.)

a past life with negative experiences somehow relating to a christian or christianity??
I've searched through my past lives since I first started getting flashbacks as a child and I can't seem to find any overly obvious forms of maltreatment by christians or on behalf of the christian faith. In fact I always found myself far away from the faith and I can't help but wonder whether it was a deliberate avoidance spanning many lives.

Any other ideas would be appreciated. I'm sure something will click sooner or later.

[ROM]

It seems religion has distorted the truth to such an extent, that it's no longer 'truth'. Maybe this is why you have such a strong aversion towards it. But should you be hating God as well?

[Sangress]

It seems religion has distorted the truth to such an extent, that it's no longer 'truth'. Maybe this is why you have such a strong aversion towards it. But should you be hating God as well?
Perhaps that could be part of it.

I've spoken without thinking before and told a friend who was tying to let me know that god loved me and I remember saying (between the strings of curse words and Latin...) "God loves no one. I HATE god. It's all a lie." for reasons I can't understand.

There are no visible reasons for any of this hatred as far as I can tell. It's just there, always been there. I think it may all be a subconscious thing.

[supernova]

I was debating whether to put this here, because I thought i would offend people. But I'm not insulting the religion of Christianity or anything related to it, just looking for opinions from people who know more about Christianity than I do.

All my life I've had an aversion to god and anything christian related.

The sight or mention of anything christian related makes my hackles rise every single time, makes my skin crawl, makes me feel so horribly malevolent and irrational, hateful and generally wanting to just laugh in a sneery kind of way.

It really surprises me and nothing else gets that kind of reaction from me. I have no idea of where these emotions come up from, but they are there and they belong to me.

I've tried to research the religion, tried to ask my sister about it, tried to empathize with it and understand and feel something other than these overpowering negative vibes.....but after years of endeavoring against the emotions to find truth it has not changed.

It seems so ridiculous and hypocritical to me that I cannot seem to help but feel this way about Christianity and the beliefs and history involved with it.

I know that this religion has helped people all around the world and shaped our world as we know it. It brings hope to peoples lives and inspires generosity too.

I have no reason not to like Christianity...yet here I am, still feeling utterly hateful of it.

Why and how on earth can I feel this way?

Has anyone come across someone else reacting this way to Christianity?

Can anyone find a reason for this?

I'm at my wits end with trying to understand why I react this way, so hopefully others might be able to help me see a different perspective and help me understand these feelings.

I apologize for offending anyone and have no want for this thread to be come an argument. I have my best intentions in mind.

Thank you

You are not alone Sangress. I am parading with you in this campaign. I must say that there are good Christians and good and gracious fathers. But the ugly popes that abuse or molest the innocent and the corruptions at churches and the shaky foundation of this religion infurates me and that makes me averse to all religions.

[yes]

I was debating whether to put this here, because I thought i would offend people. But I'm not insulting the religion of Christianity or anything related to it, just looking for opinions from people who know more about Christianity than I do.

All my life I've had an aversion to god and anything christian related.

The sight or mention of anything christian related makes my hackles rise every single time, makes my skin crawl, makes me feel so horribly malevolent and irrational, hateful and generally wanting to just laugh in a sneery kind of way.

It really surprises me and nothing else gets that kind of reaction from me. I have no idea of where these emotions come up from, but they are there and they belong to me.

I've tried to research the religion, tried to ask my sister about it, tried to empathize with it and understand and feel something other than these overpowering negative vibes.....but after years of endeavoring against the emotions to find truth it has not changed.

It seems so ridiculous and hypocritical to me that I cannot seem to help but feel this way about Christianity and the beliefs and history involved with it.

I know that this religion has helped people all around the world and shaped our world as we know it. It brings hope to peoples lives and inspires generosity too.

I have no reason not to like Christianity...yet here I am, still feeling utterly hateful of it.

Why and how on earth can I feel this way?

Has anyone come across someone else reacting this way to Christianity?

Can anyone find a reason for this?

I'm at my wits end with trying to understand why I react this way, so hopefully others might be able to help me see a different perspective and help me understand these feelings.

I apologize for offending anyone and have no want for this thread to be come an argument. I have my best intentions in mind.

Thank you

Is it because you watched 'The Omen' as a child? :cool:

[Sangress]

You are not alone Sangress. I am parading with you in this campaign. I must say that there are good Christians and good and gracious fathers. But the ugly popes that abuse or molest the innocent and the corruptions at churches and the shaky foundation of this religion infurates me and that makes me averse to all religions. http://www.spiritualforums.com/vb/images/evonature/buttons/quote.gif (http://www.spiritualforums.com/vb/newreply.php?do=newreply&p=172518)

*nods* nice to hear your opinion.

I've learned about many religions and even taken some of their teachings and incorporated them into my life (not without a grain of salt and my own individual alterations of course,) so I am not adverse to religions at all.

Is it because you watched 'The Omen' as a child?

****. I still haven't watched that. Heard about it. *writes it down on my movie list*

[Summerlander]

I was debating whether to put this here, because I thought i would offend people. But I'm not insulting the religion of Christianity or anything related to it, just looking for opinions from people who know more about Christianity than I do.

You wouldn't be insulting them. You'd be attempting to open their eyes. You cannot be condemned for trying to make people see that what they believe in is a lie!! If they expect others to let them believe in what they do and they spread their beliefs to others, then you should be allowed to say that the whole idea sounds ridiculous to you! I'll tell you exactly what makes your blood boil about this religion and no Christian will take offence because, if they call themselves Christians then they should be good, kind and understanding towards you and they will FORGIVE you for having your opinions!

Christians are people who think that without their religion, they'll feel like they don't belong, or that things are gonna go wrong for them because the presence of God is not in their lives. Some have nothing to believe in for themselves so they adopt the beliefs of others. Christianity doesn't help people...people either help themselves (mentally/physically) or they are lucky in life and believe that God had something to do with it.

Some pray and then wonder why things still go wrong (I emphasise that things are wrong because people make them wrong in their minds/events don't suit or upset people) through the course of truly random events or events that really were their doing or they left themselves vulnerable to them while they were too busy relying on miracles and the grace of God. Conveniently, the clergymen will remind them of the story of Jacob, in which his faith is tested when God and the Devil have a bet!

Christianity exploits people through their fears and bias. It is a form of control and a scheme for profit. It provides false hope and the illusion that someone out there, that you can turn to in your moments of despair, already knows everything and can act as a medium for God to be able to forgive you for all your sins. God, of course, is the Santa Claus for adults! If you behave, you'll be rewarded! If you don't, you'll go to hell (no reward, no presents children). Heaven is like Santa's house in the North Pole! And just like children would find it hard to accept that Santa doesn't exist if they've been conditioned to believe...so do adults find it hard (if not harder) to let go of the mass delusion they've been attached to since birth. It's sad really.

The sight or mention of anything christian related makes my hackles rise every single time, makes my skin crawl

Same here!

I know that this religion has helped people all around the world and shaped our world as we know it. It brings hope to peoples lives and inspires generosity too.

Has it? Has it really helped? It brings false hope for sure. And generosity shouldn't be inspired...it should come naturally from within.

I have no reason not to like Christianity...yet here I am, still feeling utterly hateful of it.

I have every reason to dislike Christianity, starting with the fact that they cling onto and worship the symbol depicting a human being who was crucified for his beliefs (if indeed that really took place). That's right, the image of a human being being murdered! Also, let's not forget what they did to heretics...what an example they set!

I apologize for offending anyone and have no want for this thread to be come an argument. I have my best intentions in mind.

Don't apologise for how you feel! That's very honest of you. I hope I've helped you in some way. Perhaps I have reminded you of why you dislike Christianity! LOL!

[Sangress]

ou wouldn't be insulting them. You'd be attempting to open their eyes. You cannot be condemned for trying to make people see that what they believe in is a lie!!
Heh, I find that really ironic because even though I have been known to come out with statements like "god is a lie"...etc I actually have no idea WHY he is apparently a lie. At times like those my logic is separated from my awareness, and my mouth just seems to work on its own!

Somehow I do not see Christianity as being at fault for the actions of people. I can't blame Christianity for the actions of individuals who had (and still have) the freewill to choose what path they will take in their life.

Without Christianity those people would probably act in the same ways, only in a less organized form.

I think that it's very much a part of human nature to be violent and want power and to be morally acceptable, to find something to blame for their troubles, to gain a distraction from the mundane life, to have a need to feel safe and secure even if it means creating something to meet those needs. (Not saying Christianity was just taken out of thin air and created, this is in general.)

People will act this way regardless of which religion they are involved in. Similar "crimes" of humanity can be found all over the world and across all faiths....so hmm. I don't see a direct link between Christianity and human nature, so I don't think that is why I feel such a deep hatred toward Christianity/god/Jesus/faith.

Though, theoretically, I can say that if a religion did happen to represent the less romanticized truth of human nature, then I would most certainly disagree and fight against it.

Perhaps I have reminded you of why you dislike Christianity! LOL!
Heh, that is where I become more confused.

I make no straight judgments on Christianity (please, correct me if I have,) and I can find no reason to hate it, yet I do.

It's all still subconscious and illogical for me! How does THAT happen? Seriously...you'd think something would jump out at me by now and yell "LOOK AT THIS, THIS IS IT. THIS IS THE REASON! YOU AGREE WITH THIS AND ACCEPT IT!" But so far it has not happened.

Don't apologise for how you feel! That's very honest of you.
Why not apologize for convenience and to avoid conflict?

I see it as no sign of weakness or of being capable of undermining the thread in the same way as enabling people to take offense would.

I hope I've helped you in some way.
You have. You've enabled me to order my thoughts more precisely and tick off a few more reasons that do not anger me about Christianity from this ever growing list.

The more christian things that I know I do not feel hateful of, the closer I get to the truth of this mystery of mine.

Thank you for voicing your rather strong opinion. :)

[Light21]

Summerlander I am christian and I forgive you for your beliefs lol. As if beliefs need to be forgiven. You have your opinion like I have mine and I respect you for yours. First things first you are wrong on who was tempted in the Bible it was Job. Yes God wanted to test Jobs faith. In the end though Job stood grounded in it and God rewarded him quite nicely. Not every christian stands on the streets spreading belief. I dont proclaim it widely. If it is brought up I state what I believe in. I think who you really are shines out through actions. Anyone can speak. That is easy. Unfortunately in every religion people scam others by beliefs. Even in a spiritual setting. All the time fake psychics say that they know certain things about you. When all they did was read out your facial reactions to their remarks and questions. Not every christian has killed people. The Catholic church did and still continues to do some horrible things. I havent ever persecuted anyone or killed anyone. I dont cling to and worship the cross. I dont wear one around my neck. I have a small one in my home. I find the cross to be sad I would rather look outside and within myself and see life and know that life is good and that is the goal is eternal life. That is why Jesus died on the cross was to bring eternal life to human kind. For me christianity isnt a religion its who I am. I am not judging your or condeming you for your beliefs. It takes courage no matter what they are to speak out. I am sorry that you have seen such negativity within christians. Not all of us are Bible thumping, preaching, hypocritic freaks. I make mistakes and sin because I am human.

[Summerlander]

@ Sangress:
Why not apologize for convenience and to avoid conflict?

See, that's the difference between you and me. I'm not afraid to speak my mind and how people react is not my responsibility. Read my signature.

@ Light21:

You forgive me? Now that's a good Christian...LOL! Btw, I like your post and I fully respect your beliefs. I like the fact that you didn't let what I said enfuriate you as most Christians that I've met have. Likewise, I don't let the preacher annoy me.

Thanks for correcting me about Job. Also, I'm with you about psychics. So far I haven't seen a convincing one. I've seen cold readers. I haven't seen any psychics. Have you?

There is only one thing that I hope you can clarify for me as a Christian:

That is why Jesus died on the cross was to bring eternal life to human kind.

What about the people who died before Jesus? Also, what makes you so sure that Jesus really existed when it's supposed to have been that long ago?

I make mistakes and sin because I am human.

I wholeheartedly agree with this statement and I admire your honesty. Btw, you are who you are and it is not a crime to be Christian. Not that I have to tell you that...

[Internal Queries]

perhaps Sangress, on some subconscious level, you pick up on the mass consciousness of all those Peoples, entire indigenous tribes, who were driven into extinction by Christianity's merciless march across the globe. the cross and other Christian symbols would be evil to those whose lives and cultures were destroyed in the name of Jesus and there are a lot of them. even if you yourself are not taking Christianity's bloody history into account the human collective remembers and perhaps, just perhaps, reacts through you.

[Miss Hepburn]

a past life with negative experiences somehow relating to a christian or christianity??
I swear we were separated at birth.

To stay on topic though - I think the religion of Christianity is one of the worst things that has happened to them.
A terrible religion/ organization filled with all the things that have already been mentioned above - fear-based, filled
with lies, superstition and the like keeping
people's minds locked and stunted in jugdment of others - basically separation ! The very definition of "sin" apparently from the Greek, right?
Oh, I could go on...

With all that, I adore Jesus and the limited amount we know of him. I gleen more thru A Course In Miracles (ACIM)
and the James E. Padget messages from 1914!
Even Eastern teachers explaining Christ more from P.Yogananda to a bunch of Swami books with deeper insights.

A crucifix - yes, let's peer at the very symbol of the anger and violent ignorance of Man's Mind that kills whatever is different
or challenges ancient belief systems or the politcal norm no matter how gentle or innocent or pure.

And yet, I respect the pure hearts of many Christians that are not aware of their religions hypocrisy.
I used to call myself one.
Their hearts are what count. ( I'm talking about my Christian brothers and sisters that do not judge and
practice kindness and love. Period.)
:smile: Miss Hepburn

[AngelBreeze]

I was debating whether to put this here, because I thought i would offend people. But I'm not insulting the religion of Christianity or anything related to it, just looking for opinions from people who know more about Christianity than I do.

All my life I've had an aversion to god and anything christian related.

The sight or mention of anything christian related makes my hackles rise every single time, makes my skin crawl, makes me feel so horribly malevolent and irrational, hateful and generally wanting to just laugh in a sneery kind of way.

It really surprises me and nothing else gets that kind of reaction from me. I have no idea of where these emotions come up from, but they are there and they belong to me.

I've tried to research the religion, tried to ask my sister about it, tried to empathize with it and understand and feel something other than these overpowering negative vibes.....but after years of endeavoring against the emotions to find truth it has not changed.

It seems so ridiculous and hypocritical to me that I cannot seem to help but feel this way about Christianity and the beliefs and history involved with it.

I know that this religion has helped people all around the world and shaped our world as we know it. It brings hope to peoples lives and inspires generosity too.

I have no reason not to like Christianity...yet here I am, still feeling utterly hateful of it.

Why and how on earth can I feel this way?

Has anyone come across someone else reacting this way to Christianity?

Can anyone find a reason for this?

I'm at my wits end with trying to understand why I react this way, so hopefully others might be able to help me see a different perspective and help me understand these feelings.

I apologize for offending anyone and have no want for this thread to be come an argument. I have my best intentions in mind.

Thank you

Warm greetings Sangress,

What I am hearing you say is that you have never made a good, conscious effort to call upon God to help you with this dilemma you are facing. Have you ever reached out to Him with contrite heart to see why it is that you feel as you do?

I had almost passed over this thread but heard the Lord call me to it and instructed me to reply to you with the following Scriptures that I hope you take to heart.

"Call unto me, and I will answer thee and show thee great and mighty things, which thou knowest not." -- JEREMIAH 33:3 (KJV)

"Seek ye the LORD while He may be found, call ye upon Him while He is near: Let the wicked forsake his way, and the unrighteous man his thoughts: and let him return unto the LORD, and He will have mercy upon you; and to our God, for He will abundantly pardon." -- ISAIAH 55: 6-7 (KJV)

This is a clear and bountiful message to you, Sangress, meant to help you understand that which you do not understand and the Lord has been merciful in this regard to welcome you back home. Quiet your mind and your heart and reach to God and reflect upon these Scriptural words and do not allow the negativity of the adversary's thoughts to interfere with your rightful mission to return to the One who Created you, who gives you your day-to-day life, and who Loves you more than you can possibly know.

Deus tecum and my special wishes for many blessings and a beautiful day!

I Am Sending You Many Hugs With Much Love and Pure Light,
(\o/) AngelBreeze (\o/)

[theophilus]

She offered me the cross and I said no (because even then I hated it) but she insisted because "everyone needs prayer sometimes." So I held it, a little silver cross...nothing special...and after about 20 seconds it heated up and I gave it back to the woman and told her never to put that thing near me again.

I had welts on my hand for 3 days.If I believed in the existence of vampires this would make me think that you are one. :smile:

Perhaps God is planning to use you in some way and Satan is aware of this and trying to prevent this by keeping you from becoming a Christian. In any case he is certainly involved in this in some way.

[norseman]

I dont have a problem with christ [assuming he ever existed]. His philosophy and principles are sound, if a little uninspiring. The BIG problem is christianity - one of the most evil institutions on the planet. I dont have to list christianity's crimes against humanity - that's been done and is clearly evident, From it's very beginnings in the Roman Empire, christianity was an instrument of oppression, a means of population control, of keeping the common people in their place i.e. on their knees. Aristocracy backed by military with a parasitical priesthood preaching that you should accept your short, miserable life because only WE, the priesthood, control access to a better next life.. Christ did not deserve the religion he got. Christ must weep !

[Internal Queries]

If I believed in the existence of vampires this would make me think that you are one. :smile:

Perhaps God is planning to use you in some way and Satan is aware of this and trying to prevent this by keeping you from becoming a Christian. In any case he is certainly involved in this in some way.



or maybe some higher Truth is warning her away from a trap, the concept trap you're (happily) caught in, the concept trap i was (unhappily) caught in, a trap from which i escaped only after years of tedious humbling work in self honesty. wrenching myself free was painful and left scars which are still visible on my psyche but it was totally worth it.

[Miss Hepburn]

If I believed in the existence of vampires this would make me think that you are one. :smile:

I'm not gettin' the smile face after that statement...

[Mind's Eye]

I was raised Christian and followed in the religious path until about the mid 90's.. All seemed pretty calm before then. Most teachers wrote about the power of faith and prayer, healing and being aware of the God inside of us all... It seemed Christianity was evolving and coming into some new frontiers. But then suddenly, everything changed. And it really went hay wire around the year 2000.

Over night everyone's message seemed to change. Everyone was saying that you had to go to church or you were not saved and a rebel. All the good teachers and writers starting forbidding all their readers to engage in any kind entertainment that was not Christian based. Heaven was suddenly very hard to get into and the fear and darkness was everywhere. And money became a big topic as well...give, give, give lots of money to the church or your robbing God of his tithe. Then all of the Christians seemed to act like they were so much better than everyone else..

Needless to say, the drastic change filled me with great uneasiness, anxiety and then anger..... I soon dropped out of the religious world and took a more metaphysical approach to life and followed the direction of my own heart.

As far as I can see Sangress, Christianity continues down that slippery slope and shows no signs of stopping. Maybe you just sensed the under laying negative vibe of the religion ever since you were young.. after all, in years back it was a pretty fear based religion as well. Then it seemed to get a little light... now the darkness rules again.

It's enough to make anyone blister.

[Chrysaetos]

My problem is not with Christianity as a religion itself. To me, it's just another religion with its own cultural, scientifically illiterate, and limited perspective.

I do consider Christian fundamentalists to be a nuisance though. With that, I mean any Christian who makes the absolutist claim, that there is one true way. I don't accept that as I see all religions and paths as fallible and limited, especially those religions that teach us that in this huge universe, God came to a tiny planet, and to a tiny country, to save some talking mammals, because a talking snake made them sin a few thousand years earlier. Hmm ok.

And of course there's all the hypocrisy, foul convert-language talk, the wars, the creationist propaganda on the internet etc.

But out of that, I have not much problem with moderate Christians.

[Shim]

Question: "What is the difference between religion and spirituality?"

Answer: Before we explore the difference between religion and spirituality, we must first define the two terms. Religion can be defined as “belief in God or gods to be worshipped, usually expressed in conduct and ritual” or “any specific system of belief, worship, etc., often involving a code of ethics.” Spirituality can be defined as “the quality or fact of being spiritual, non-physical” or “predominantly spiritual character as shown in thought, life, etc.; spiritual tendency or tone.” To put it briefly, religion is a set of beliefs and rituals that claim to get a person in a right relationship with God, and spirituality is a focus on spiritual things and the spiritual world instead of physical/earthly things.

The most common misconception about religion is that Christianity is just another religion like Islam, Judaism, Hinduism, etc. Sadly, many who claim to be adherents of Christianity do practice Christianity as if it were a religion. To many, Christianity is nothing more than a set of rules and rituals that a person has to observe in order to go to heaven after death. That is not true Christianity. True Christianity is not a religion; rather, it is having a right relationship with God by receiving Jesus Christ as the Savior-Messiah, by grace through faith. Yes, Christianity does have “rituals” to observe (e.g., baptism and communion). Yes, Christianity does have “rules” to follow (e.g., do not murder, love one another, etc.). However, these rituals and rules are not the essence of Christianity. The rituals and rules of Christianity are the result of salvation. When we receive salvation through Jesus Christ, we are baptized as a proclamation of that faith. We observe communion in remembrance of Christ’s sacrifice. We follow a list of do’s and don’ts out of love for God and gratitude for what He has done.

The most common misconception about spirituality is that there are many forms of spirituality, and all are equally valid. Meditating in unusual physical positions, communing with nature, seeking conversation with the spirit world, etc., may seem to be “spiritual,” but they are in fact false spirituality. True spirituality is possessing the Holy Spirit of God as a result of receiving salvation through Jesus Christ. True spirituality is the fruit that the Holy Spirit produces in a person’s life: love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, gentleness, and self-control (Galatians 5:22-23). Spirituality is all about becoming more like God, who is spirit (John 4:24) and having our character conformed to His image (Romans 12:1-2).

What religion and spirituality have in common is that they both can be false methods of having a relationship with God. Religion tends to substitute the heartless observance of rituals for a genuine relationship with God. Spirituality tends to substitute connection with the spirit world for a genuine relationship with God. Both can be, and often are, false paths to God. At the same time, religion can be valuable in the sense that it points to the fact that there is a God and that we are somehow accountable to Him. The only true value of religion is its ability to point out that we have fallen short and are in need of a Savior. Spirituality can be valuable in that it points out that the physical world is not all there is. Human beings are not only material, but also possess a soul-spirit. There is a spiritual world around us of which we should be aware. The true value of spirituality is that it points to the fact that there is something and someone beyond this physical world to which we need to connect.

Jesus Christ is the fulfillment of both religion and spirituality. Jesus is the One to whom we are accountable and to whom true religion points. Jesus is the One to whom we need to connect and the One to whom true spirituality points. Are you interested in discovering true religion and true spirituality? If the answer is yes, please begin your journey on our webpage that describes receiving Jesus Christ as your Personal Savior - http://www.gotquestions.org/personal-Savior.html. --Got Questions (http://www.gotquestions.org/religion-spirituality.html)

[Perspective]

Sangress,
I am currently struggling with an aversion to the Mormon doctrines I was raised with. I think it's kind of like the teenager who's fighting for independence, questioning everything.

The other night I watched, "Truman Show" again. This time, I related to it so much more - especially,
"We accept the reality of the world with which we are presented."
Truman knows things aren't right... but everyone around him is playing their parts... He's determined to find out for himself...

James Fowler presented "stages of faith" -
http://faculty.plts.edu/gpence/html/fowler.htm
I think I keep going back & forth between 4 & 5... I want to get where I can appreciate any & all religion for the spirit inspired.

My problem is not with Christianity as a religion itself. To me, it's just another religion with its own cultural, scientifically illiterate, and limited perspective.

I do consider all Christian fundamentalists to be a nuisance though. With that, I mean any Christian who makes the absolutist claim, that there is one true way. I don't accept that as I see all religions and paths as fallible and limited, especially those religions that teach us that in this huge universe, God came to a tiny planet, and to a tiny country, to save some talking apes, because a talking snake made them sin a few thousand years earlier. Hmm ok.

And of course there's all the hypocrisy, foul convert-language talk, the wars, the creationist propaganda on the internet etc.

But out of that, I have not much problem with moderate Christians. lol, :smile: Chrysaetos... as funny as you put it, I agree!
To consider different perspectives... pros & cons etc... is to come closer to truth...
It's hypocritical for anyone to point the finger at someone or some group for being imperfect or narrow minded - we all are!

[Sangress]

Have you ever reached out to Him with contrite heart to see why it is that you feel as you do?

I have, many times. I've attempted to become a christian many times, but those negative feelings overwhelm me and I become ill.

Last time I prayed I went to hospital soon after, I assume it was coincidence...but some part of me questions it.

If I believed in the existence of vampires this would make me think that you are one.

How do vampires come into this? I wasn't aware of any link between Christ and vampires.

Christ did not deserve the religion he got. Christ must weep !

maybe some higher Truth is warning her away from a trap, the concept trap you're (happily) caught in, the concept trap i was (unhappily) caught in, a trap from which i escaped only after years of tedious humbling work in self honesty. wrenching myself free was painful and left scars which are still visible on my psyche but it was totally worth it. http://www.spiritualforums.com/vb/images/evonature/buttons/quote.gif (http://www.spiritualforums.com/vb/newreply.php?do=newreply&p=172893)

Perhaps the religion and the original events it stems from are completely separate things.

Perhaps God is planning to use you in some way and Satan is aware of this and trying to prevent this by keeping you from becoming a Christian. In any case he is certainly involved in this in some way.

I don't get the hateful feeling from things involving "Satan"...etc. I feel comfortable regarding that. I have been tempted to research it for a while, but due to it's bad reputation I've decided to put it off.

The feeling reminds me a bit of a recognition of sorts. Maybe respect? I'm unsure.

I would think that if good and evil were waring over my head all my life I would surely sense something of it.

[Shim]

How do vampires come into this? I wasn't aware of any link between Christ and vampires.


There are a couple of misinterpreted or twisted scriptures in Genesis that modern day vampires trace back to their origins. Look up Lilith.

[Chrysaetos]

lol, :smile: Chrysaetos... as funny as you put it, I agree!
To consider different perspectives... pros & cons etc... is to come closer to truth...
It's hypocritical for anyone to point the finger at someone or some group for being imperfect or narrow minded - we all are!I guess we're all imperfect according to the common definitions.
And we can't get the full picture, so narrow mindedness is a guarantee for a human being.

That said, it's obvious that some views are more narrow than others.
I find it rather narrow to believe that 'God' has limited 'himself' to one planet, one country, and one incarnation. Perhaps the religion and the original events it stems from are completely separate things. Perhaps? You can bet it is.

The gospels were written down decades after Jesus supposedly lived. People gave their own cultural understandings and interpretations to the story.
It was hearsay written down!

[Shim]

I guess we're all imperfect according to the common definitions.
And we can't get the full picture, so narrow mindedness is a guarantee for a human being.

That said, it's obvious that some views are more narrow than others.
I find it rather narrow to believe that 'God' has limited 'himself' to one planet, one country, and one incarnation. Perhaps? You can bet it is.

The gospels were written down decades after Jesus supposedly lived. People gave their own cultural understandings and interpretations to the story.
It was hearsay written down!

The gospels were written in the lifespans of eyewitness testimony. That is before myth had an opportunity to develop.

[Chrysaetos]

The gospels were written in the lifespans of eyewitness testimony. That is before myth had an opportunity to develop.I'm afraid that is too easy.

Do you know how hard it is to write down a story about someone, or a biography or anything like that?
Think about our time and imagine this year is the first time someone writes about the life of John F. Kennedy.

And no television, internet, or books are available. Just hearsay.

I say good luck.

[Shim]

I'm afraid that is too easy.

Do you know how hard it is to write down a story about someone, or a biography or anything like that?
Think about our time and imagine this year is the first time someone writes about the life of John F. Kennedy.

And no television, internet, or books are available. Just hearsay.

I say good luck.

Luke 1:1-4 reads:

1:1 Since many have undertaken to arrange in proper order an account of the events that have been fulfilled among us, 2 just as from the beginning the eyewitnesses and those becoming ministers of the Word handed down to us, 3 so also it seemed good to me, accurately following and investigating everything from the first, to write to you in order (an account), most excellent Theophilus, 4 so that you may know the certainty of the words (of the gospel) you have been taught.*

Do you know how things were written in the Bible for ease of Memory? Take for example mnemonics, the entire genealogy (Matthew) is written down in such a structure. And not having television, internet, or books available people would be less susceptible to the influence of liars and conspirators (it works for both sides.)

[Perspective]

I guess we're all imperfect according to the common definitions.
And we can't get the full picture, so narrow mindedness is a guarantee for a human being.

That said, it's obvious that some views are more narrow than others.
I find it rather narrow to believe that 'God' has limited 'himself' to one planet, one country, and one incarnation. "Everybody is ignorant, only on different subjects." - Will Rogers

"It's not denial. I'm just selective about the reality I accept." -Bill Waterson

[Shabda]

I guess we're all imperfect according to the common definitions.
And we can't get the full picture, so narrow mindedness is a guarantee for a human being.

That said, it's obvious that some views are more narrow than others.
I find it rather narrow to believe that 'God' has limited 'himself' to one planet, one country, and one incarnation. Perhaps? You can bet it is.

The gospels were written down decades after Jesus supposedly lived. People gave their own cultural understandings and interpretations to the story.
It was hearsay written down!

i agree entirely~! thats a rather egocentric and ethnocentric point of view...

[Sangress]

As far as I can see Sangress, Christianity continues down that slippery slope and shows no signs of stopping. Maybe you just sensed the under laying negative vibe of the religion ever since you were young.. after all, in years back it was a pretty fear based religion as well. Then it seemed to get a little light... now the darkness rules again.



A few days ago my friend and I had a talk about whether it was the affect of the negative vibes of the religion or whether I somehow react to the pain people put into their prayers or whether I "take on" others suffering....etc

But it was soon obvious that it was not the case.

To be painfully honest I LOVE what others percieve to be negative energy. The energy from others pain and suffering and emotions like anger, spite, hatred, jealousy and especially fear feels wonderfull to me and I thrive on it. I feel at ease in all volatile situations, whereas when everyone is being overly loving and calm it makes me restless and want to move, to go elsewhere and find something other than peace.

I even enjoy my own pain (not in a sadistic or masochist way.)

We concluded that wiithout experiencing or witnessing some kind of pain or suffering it feels as though I am disabled or dead...just unnatural for me. Not as it should be.

*Crosses another possibility of the list*

[Sangress]

perhaps Sangress, on some subconscious level, you pick up on the mass consciousness of all those Peoples, entire indigenous tribes, who were driven into extinction by Christianity's merciless march across the globe. the cross and other Christian symbols would be evil to those whose lives and cultures were destroyed in the name of Jesus and there are a lot of them. even if you yourself are not taking Christianity's bloody history into account the human collective remembers and perhaps, just perhaps, reacts through you.


Hmm, I have instinctually followed tribal and shamanistic ways since I was a child, so christianity could well be some affront to my overall character.

But this theory is a bit vague as of yet. I'll look into it further for sure.

[Sangress]

There are a couple of misinterpreted or twisted scriptures in Genesis that modern day vampires trace back to their origins. Look up Lilith.

Hmm, very interesting.

Would anyone be able to find those scriptures more quickly than myself searching all over the internet?

This could be a solid connection.

[Shim]

The mythical figure of Lilith, who was supposedly created before Eve. The legend of Lilith derives from a theory that Genesis has two creation accounts Genesis 1:27 and 2:7,20-22. The two stories allow for two different women. Lilith does not appear in the Bible (apart from a debatable reference comparing her to a screech owl in the Hb text of Isaiah 34:14. Some rabbinic commentators, however, refer to Lilith as the first created woman, who refused to submit to Adam and fled from the garden. Eve was then created to be Adam's helper. After their expulsion from the garden, Adam reunited for a time with Lilith before finally returning to Eve. Lilith bore Adam a number of children, who became the demons of the Bible. According to kabbalistic legend, after Adam's reconciliation with Eve, Lilith took the title Queen of the Demons and became a murderer of infants and young boys, whom she turned into vampires.

[RabbiO]

The mythical figure of Lilith, who was supposedly created before Eve. The legend of Lilith derives from a theory that Genesis has two creation accounts Genesis 1:27 and 2:7,20-22. The two stories allow for two different women. Lilith does not appear in the Bible (apart from a debatable reference comparing her to a screech owl in the Hb text of Isaiah 34:14. Some rabbinic commentators, however, refer to Lilith as the first created woman, who refused to submit to Adam and fled from the garden. Eve was then created to be Adam's helper. After their expulsion from the garden, Adam reunited for a time with Lilith before finally returning to Eve. Lilith bore Adam a number of children, who became the demons of the Bible.

There is no comparison between Lilith and a screech owl in Isaiah. What it says is:
אַךְ-שָׁם הִרְגִּיעָה לִּילִית
Some translators have chosen to translate lee-leet as screech owl, but the truth is we can say for sure what the word means for it is the only the word occurs in Jewish scripture.

We know that there was in the ancient Near East a deity or a demon with a similar name to Lilith and the reference may be to that. The word may well be related to the Hebrew word ly-lah which means night and so it may refer to a night creature or even night monster of some kind.

Lilith as a demon was known in Talmudic times, but the story of her being the first wife of Adam is not seen until sometime around 900 C.E.

B'shalom,

Peter

[Sangress]

Thank you Shim and RabbiO.

a murderer of infants and young boys, whom she turned into vampires

I assume the definition of vampire in that text would be different to your average fictional or legendary romanian counterpart. I can't begin to wonder how all of these associations were made between adam and eve and demons and vampires and owls...it's all a bit vague.

Very interesting though.

[Miss Hepburn]

There is no comparison between Lilith and a screech owl in Isaiah. What it says is:
אַךְ-שָׁם הִרְגִּיעָה לִּילִית
Some translators have chosen to translate lee-leet as screech owl, but the truth is we can say for sure what the word means for it is the only the word occurs in Jewish scripture.

We know that there was in the ancient Near East a deity or a demon with a similar name to Lilith and the reference may be to that. The word may well be related to the Hebrew word ly-lah which means night and so it may refer to a night creature or even night monster of some kind.

Lilith as a demon was known in Talmudic times, but the story of her being the first wife of Adam is not seen until sometime around 900 C.E.

B'shalom,

Peter
Are you showing off, again!!!
:hello:

[Silver]

Are you showing off, again!!!
:hello:

Heh, if you've got it, flaunt it, I say~*

[Sangress]

Heh, if you've got it, flaunt it, I say~*
Haha, I second that.

I was talking again last night with a friend and I started talking about some odd things that I was even surprised at. I was in a bit of a trance-like state at the time (not deliberately) so the memory is a bit hazy.

Here's a bit of what I remember saying....it's all very weird...

---------------------------------------------------------------------

You cannot know love if you do not know great suffering.

Suffering is the catalyst for growth and health, for understanding and knowledge.

And God seeks to take away this suffering and render his followers blind and lost and unable to progress without being under his sway of power.

People are captive animals within his embrace and many follow his example of disrespecting and rejecting all they dislike, and rejecting everything that reminds them of what they dislike.

God offers others redemption and forgives those who forgive themselves and others.

He rejects all who openly state that they cannot follow his way and who see no need to forgive anyone for anything, because they accept everyone for who they are...not what they have done.

There is no place in gods arms for things like me, who are the embodiments of all he dislikes.

I am equal to god and all that lives, and he holds no power over me.

However, this does not mean that I do not seek a relationship with him because I respect him for who he is, not what he and his followers do.

------------------------------------------------------------------------

I understand a lot of that, but I don't see how those conclusions formed or why.

I may have touched on the reasons behind it all, but I don't even understand the information that came out of my mouth.

Does it make sense to any of you?

Ugh, so complicated.

[nightowl]

Sangress,
I have been lurking on this thread ever since you started it, it certainly is interesting. I am a little confused and it my be me but can you clarify something for me? Do you believe in God, it sounds as though you do...if so
it would seem that you believe God is the God of the Bible? The Christian God? Why do you believe this?

[LadyVirgoxoxo]

The only Christian explanation for what you are feeling is that you are possessed by an evil force, it doesn't have to be a demon, but something evil resides within you. I'm not saying that you do, but have you ever had a cross put on you or holy water thrown at you, or anything like that? Anything Christian on you? If you have, please tell me what it was like for you and your reaction.

[Sangress]

Sangress,
I have been lurking on this thread ever since you started it, it certainly is interesting. I am a little confused and it my be me but can you clarify something for me? Do you believe in God, it sounds as though you do...if so
it would seem that you believe God is the God of the Bible? The Christian God? Why do you believe this?
To be honest I don't know if I believe or not. Undecided.

I assume I only spoke that way because I was interacting with someone who believed in the god of the bible, the christian god...

I always come out with things that I don't understand if I open up to someone about god...etc. It's probably the main reason why I don't understand why I dislike the religion, because I speak of things I don't think I know...or remember.

The only Christian explanation for what you are feeling is that you are possessed by an evil force, it doesn't have to be a demon, but something evil resides within you. I'm not saying that you do, but have you ever had a cross put on you or holy water thrown at you, or anything like that? Anything Christian on you? If you have, please tell me what it was like for you and your reaction.
Cross = pain and gross.

Holy water....not sure. I know I was never christened or baptized like my sister and other members of my family. Not sure why, probably because I spent the first two years of my life in hospital (birth complications) so everyone most likely had more important things to see to and faith was never a large priority.

I have an intense fear of all water.

Last time I was taken to church was as a child, perhaps 5 or 6 years old...maybe less... I don't remember it. I was told by the boyfriend of my sister that an exorcism was performed (he did not mention on whom though..and seemed very nervous about it, wouldn't look me in the eyes.) I think it was just a rumor.

Hmm what else....oh, I had to go to a camp funded by the church, it was a school thing when I was 14 or so, and we had to pray and stuff (they weren't actually real prayers, they were just stylized modern rhymes thanking god for food ....etc.) I never did it and was in a foul mood the entire time, got pretty sick too and got better once I stopped eating whatever they called food. (Lol.)

At the camp I had an elderly man try to talk to me about god and when I said that I dislike god and asked whether he had a problem with it, he said that he knew "it" and quoted something which I didn't bother listing to and he did the hand-gesture cross thing and rushed away.

I was pretty confused about it and he seemed a bit insane to me...so I ignored it.

We went to another camp funded by the same church when I was 15 and I spent the time bush-walking with a teacher I quite liked (who I talked into coming with me,) while everyone else was doing activities that somehow involved Christianity and eating. I was quite happy to be away from it all.

Oh, I also remember that I saw a nun once (on the street randomly,) with those red (or whatever colour they were) beads clacking around. I couldn't stand the sound they made when she moved.

There is actually a church up the road from me, I walk past it every day and end up on the opposite side of the road to it. I've tried to go in there once, but I just couldn't do it...I wanted to but when I got close I just felt horrible. It was almost like I was being smothered, I just had to get away from it.

I was put into the choir at school since I apparently have a "angelic" voice *rolls eyes* and the first song i was meant to learn was about..you guessed it...god and faith. I never performed it and skipped every session I had.

I have had Christianity around me most of my life since my sister and my mothers side of the family are roman catholic, christian and whatever else to do with god. I have no idea why I have always been so intolerant to it because you'd think I'd be used to it by now, but my aversion just seems to get worse the longer I'm witnessing or involved with it all.


Also, something interesting.

My favorite band put out a new album recently and I was surprised when I hated their songs and couldn't listen to them. They made me angry and I loathed the band in no time.

Obviously, not knowing why I hated the band made me look up their lyrics yesterday.

Every new song has christian references sneakily tucked into them. No wonder.

[LadyVirgoxoxo]

Wow that's really strange. Christianity is a religion all about love, I know that may be hard to believe, so it's strange you dislike it so greatly. Do you feel love for others?
But yeah you honestly should get that checked out. was the exorcism conducted on you? And may I ask what your religious/spiritual beliefs are?
I'm sorry if you feel like I'm insulting you, I'm really not, I'm just trying to figure this out.

[Sangress]

Do you feel love for others?
Yes, I have a partner (twin-flame/soulmate) and cannot imagine life without him. I feel love toward nature as well.

was the exorcism conducted on you?
As I stated in the previous post, I was not told who it was conducted on. (I am unable to ask him now because he is and never will be a part of my life again.)

And may I ask what your religious/spiritual beliefs are?
My beliefs are difficult to explain because I rarely come to many conclusions on anything. I prefer to leave situations and ideas/concepts open to change and alterations. Nothing is fixed.

Most of my "practices" have shamanistic and native origins (or seem too) and also involve an awareness of the physical world through the metaphysical world (the two, physical and spiritual, are one and the same to me.)

I believe everything and everyone is equal and hold great respect for all in existence and treat nature especially as a sacred and precious thing.

I value sheer honesty and seek to get to the bare and simple truth in all areas of my own and others existence.

I also hold a belief that I utilize the energy of nature, the elements and other living beings to maintain appropriate health (specifically spiritual, mental and physical health) because I myself do not create enough (if any) energy to naturally sustain myself.

I also hold a firm belief in the afterlife, past lives and reincarnation.

I put survival as my main priority and will harm others (or steal...etc) when necessary to protect myself or ensure my own survival.

I have no specific morality between what I recognize as "right or wrong," but instead I find it more natural for me to accept everything as it is and for what it is without passing many judgments....you might say I observe rather than witness.

Nothing other than that specifically revolves around myself or my own perceptions, opinions or beliefs.

I'm sorry if you feel like I'm insulting you, I'm really not, I'm just trying to figure this out.
It takes only three specific things to insult me, and what you have mentioned is not one of them. I'm not easily angered.

Christianity is a religion all about love, I know that may be hard to believe, so it's strange you dislike it so greatly.
I understand that and agree that it is certainly strange.

But yeah you honestly should get that checked out.
Which is exactly what I am doing (or attempting to do) here and now.

[LadyVirgoxoxo]

Your sister is very religious?

[Amilius777]

its like Star Wars lol.

The Force (Church/Christ) is suppose to flow through peaceful loving Jedi (Saints and true followers) Instead the Force (Church/Christ) is under the control and power of the Sith (The Vatican)

I mean come on! Pope Benedict became Pope in April 2005! Revenge of the Sith came out May 2005! Pope Benedict looks like Emperor Palpatine! Does God need to show anymore signs to you guys???!!!! :D

We just have to wait for the Second Coming of Jesus, so when he comes back He picks up the Papacy and hurls it down a mine shaft to save his sheep! Hehhehehehehhe

[Sangress]

*
Your sister is very religious?

Yes. Though her faith has become stronger since members of her church stopped providing her with heroin. So now she is fanatical. Though that could be the bipolar coming into play.

[Shim]

*
Your sister is very religious?

Yes. Though her faith has become stronger since members of her church stopped providing her with heroin. So now she is fanatical. Though that could be the bipolar coming into play.


There were members in our church who use to come into the congregation high. It took a few years for them to develop a Christian conscious, but they did quit. I find it interesting too that among non Christians who attempt to quit smoking cigarettes (600% more addictive then heroin) there's a one percent success rate, but amongst Christians in the church there's a 40% success rate. I wonder whether our Church elders had known about their habits (our church runs a half way house) thinking they did though all I wondered about was where there honor had been. To defile the house of the Lord.....

[pre-dawn]

I find it interesting too that among non Christians who attempt to quit smoking cigarettes (600% more addictive then heroin) there's a one percent success rate, but amongst Christians in the church there's a 40% success rate
Easy, social support, social interaction, the embarrassment factor, and finding strength in places where others don't.

[LadyVirgoxoxo]

Sangress, maybe youshould ask your sister about it and see what she thinks? Or her pastor. Btw, is your username an actual word? Because I saw someone else have a username like yours.

[Sangress]

To be clear, by "providing" I meant that members of the church had ceased supplying her with the illegal drug, not that they helped her stop her addiction (they were actually enabling her need for the drug.)

unfortunately, I refuse to be in contact with my sister as she is very abusive toward me. Iwould ask her pastor, but I do not think I am ready to walk into a church again.

Also, my name is not a word, but is part of a number of words which I associate myself with. (sanguine & mistress are the main words.)

[Sangress]

Heh, today I was wandering around town looking for jewlery and found myself autimatially avoiding certain parts of the shops or feeling ill/nervious in certain areas.

I forced myself to go look at a few peices of jewlery that looked quite nice that I suddenly felt resentment for.

Yeh, turns out that shops are selling jewlery with crosses hidden amongst other trinkets on the same chain now, its like the new style apparently......I can't seem to get away from it can I?

[mattie]

Your having an innate aversion to christianity may be related to experiences you had in what we call past lives. As we expand our consciousness it isn’t unusual to become more aware of these. We can have strong feelings about things we can’t account for logically. It may be that you are at a level where you just can’t abide the concepts of this religion even if you can’t identify exactly why. Many have had these same exact feelings.

Any religion that teaches that we are innately damaged (sinful) is NOT enlightened. That we inept spiritually, needing others (Jesus, God) to rescue us is NOT empowering. Both of these concepts are the basis of this religion. Both of these concepts are very damaging to our spiritual development.

Interesting books on examining this religion are Bishop Spong’s ‘Jesus For The Non-Religious.’ Spong is a proponent of his religion, but believes it must change to survive. Freke & Gandy’s ‘The Jesus Mysteries’ is also informative in analyzing the bible.

Many have had serious questions about this religion for quite some time, including, as Spong points out, serious biblical scholars. Christian biblical scholars have brought up many issues for decades that are entirely different from what is discussed in what one might call retail religion.

Don’t feel obligated to be OK w/ this or anything else just because others are.
⇒⇒⇒ TRUST your gut reaction. ↵↵↵

Many are moving away from organized religion of all types. Some organized religions may have more right than others, but none of them really get it right for many reasons. There are major flaws in all of the organized religions. This moving away from organized religion has nothing to do w/ being spiritual, however. A recent BBC article discussed how organized religion is becoming increasingly passé.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-12811197

[LadyVirgoxoxo]

Who says what path is right, enlightened, or empowering? I believe this is subjective for everyone and is why many people choose their certain religious/spiritual path. Thus, imho, I believe every religion/spirituality helps us to get closer to God. All rivers lead to one ocean.

[Shim]

Who says what path is right, enlightened, or empowering? I believe this is subjective for everyone and is why many people choose their certain religious/spiritual path. Thus, imho, I believe every religion/spirituality helps us to get closer to God. All rivers lead to one ocean.

Seems to be quite selective. Do you feel the same way about morality LadyVirgoxoxo?

[Shim]

To be clear, by "providing" I meant that members of the church had ceased supplying her with the illegal drug, not that they helped her stop her addiction (they were actually enabling her need for the drug.)

unfortunately, I refuse to be in contact with my sister as she is very abusive toward me. Iwould ask her pastor, but I do not think I am ready to walk into a church again.

Also, my name is not a word, but is part of a number of words which I associate myself with. (sanguine & mistress are the main words.)

Yea, the above would demand that you put your self aside and do the right thing. If a "church" is supplying an illegal narcotic then you should do something if you know about it. Whether contacting the civil authorities or stomping into that church for whatever reason, that is, take some action based on the testimony of a heroin addict. Good luck.

[Guthee]

I get a similar reaction (more at the idea of male god (and the over the top believers) then the religion itself). The cross does not bother me, I think of it as a stolen pagan symbol.

But I was forced into it when I was young, and the majority of the christens I have known have harmed me or those I know in some form. Nothing like being told your horrible and dirty when your a little innocent girl. Not fun being told that I was going to go to hell unless I did x, y and z, and stopped doing a, b, and c.
That and the whole pagan theft and death thing.

Those are my reasons for my feelings at least.

I agree with silvergirl on this one :)

[Shim]

I get a similar reaction (more at the idea of male god (and the over the top believers) then the religion itself). The cross does not bother me, I think of it as a stolen pagan symbol.

But I was forced into it when I was young, and the majority of the christens I have known have harmed me or those I know in some form. Nothing like being told your horrible and dirty when your a little innocent girl. Not fun being told that I was going to go to hell unless I did x, y and z, and stopped doing a, b, and c.
That and the whole pagan theft and death thing.

Those are my reasons for my feelings at least.

I agree with silvergirl on this one :)

Did you feel the same way about your parents when they wouldn't let you eat all the candy during Halloween and Easter? Did you throw a tantrum and yell this isn't fair and stomp out of the living room in your tiny little diaper?

My daughter who is a few years younger than you has demonstrated the opposite outcome. She's informed and educated in scripture and understands what it means to have a sin nature.

[Sangress]

Guthee, thank you for offering your opinion

Mattie, I actually do not have a problem with organised religion at all. I have studies buddhism, islam, native american, aboriginal and ancient religions such as old paganism/witchcraft, mayan and aztec....and of course christianity.

Organised religion is not bad or good, it is what it is and I can find no personal fault with any of it.

As I think I have stated previously, I have searched through my past lives (from 12000 BCE to the 1900's) and found that I have been distant from any christian related religion.

I think past life experiences can be ruled out with this one, as I have been unable to find any experience at all regarding this particular religion.

Shim, this narcotic situation was years ago while I was still a child, so as an adult it is not my responsibility to take action at this time.

The church itself was and is not corrupt, only a minor group of church goers are/were and they are who my sister unfortunately became associated with at the time.

I've mused for a long time about whether my feelings for the church are intertwined with my feelings for my sister and, since I have always seen her and her religion as being separate things...and also accepted that her personal situation and state of mental health was more of a key factor in her behaviour than religion has been.

I can't seem to find any personal points of reference in this life (though there should be many) that explain this hatred and aversion to christianity in all its forms.

I can't seem to find any points of reference in previous lives either and it seems this feeling, for as far back as I can remember, has always been present.

Surely, this has to be instinctual then?

[Shim]

Guthee, thank you for offering your opinion

Mattie, I actually do not have a problem with organised religion at all. I have studies buddhism, islam, native american, aboriginal and ancient religions such as old paganism/witchcraft, mayan and aztec....and of course christianity.

Organised religion is not bad or good, it is what it is and I can find no personal fault with any of it.

As I think I have stated previously, I have searched through my past lives (from 12000 BCE to the 1900's) and found that I have been distant from any christian related religion.

I think past life experiences can be ruled out with this one, as I have been unable to find any experience at all regarding this particular religion.

Shim, this narcotic situation was years ago while I was still a child, so as an adult it is not my responsibility to take action at this time.

The church itself was and is not corrupt, only a minor group of church goers are/were and they are who my sister unfortunately became associated with at the time.

I've mused for a long time about whether my feelings for the church are intertwined with my feelings for my sister and, since I have always seen her and her religion as being separate things...and also accepted that her personal situation and state of mental health was more of a key factor in her behaviour than religion has.

I can't seem to find any personal points of reference in this life (though there should be many) that explain this hatred and aversion to christianity in all its forms.

I can't seem to find any points of reference in previous lives either and it seems this feeling, for as far back as I can remember, has always been present.

Surely, this has to be instinctual then?

Yes Bi-polar people are known to say and do things that involve reckless behavior. When manic, they don't think right especially when off their medication or the mixing of illegal narcotics with their medications. It even can be misdiagnosed as being demonic.

[OmniRedVT]

Sangress
I argue not.An answer to your post though. It's the demon obviously within you.If you want it out either cast it out yourself or find someone sincere and legit who can help you.Renounce satan and you'll ultimitely be rid of it.God bless no kidding.There've been some clever posts recently which is a usual anti Christ Lenten occurance yet last year someone utilized their notoriety for unprecedented blasphemy and that individual is perpetuating his attempts.Ask one of the search webs the story of June 14th.last year at a Monroe Ohio church called solid Rock Church and you'll find it potentially easier to renounce .Not that myself and fellow heterosexuals aren't solid.Take care and God bless the blessed!Asbolutely no twisted parallels!
Absolutely straight forward!Gary V. Giardina!This sent before 4:21 P.M. April 3rd.2011.Can you stop the resolute blasphemy?

[Triner]

Who says what path is right, enlightened, or empowering? I believe this is subjective for everyone and is why many people choose their certain religious/spiritual path. Thus, imho, I believe every religion/spirituality helps us to get closer to God. All rivers lead to one ocean.

Absolutely! 110% agree. Too much strife in the world is caused by those who think their way is THE ONLY way.

[LadyVirgoxoxo]

Seems to be quite selective. Do you feel the same way about morality LadyVirgoxoxo?

I would say I do.

Guthee, I have heard many Christian elements actually being pagan elements but I never knew the cross was one. Could you elaborate please?

[Shim]

I would say I do.

Guthee, I have heard many Christian elements actually being pagan elements but I never knew the cross was one. Could you elaborate please?

It could be said too that many pagans who converted to Christianity brought about with them parts of their religion, not fully converting. Paganism is considered to be a corruption of an earlier pure religion.

[LadyVirgoxoxo]

Is it really? What religion is this? I thought Paganism was the oldest "religion"?

[Shim]

Is it really? What religion is this? I thought Paganism was the oldest "religion"?

Pretty nice article. The Uniqueness of Israels Religion (http://www.religiousverse.com/forum/10-apologetics-and-theology/234-the-uniqueness-of-israels-religion) And after having read many debates it seems that many base things on pagan beliefs that occurred after the date that most make their case. I think it is embarrassing for many to get caught in an argument over pagan beliefs, when things are written after the fact.

[Triner]

Pretty nice article. The Uniqueness of Israels Religion (http://www.religiousverse.com/forum/10-apologetics-and-theology/234-the-uniqueness-of-israels-religion) And after having read many debates it seems that many base things on pagan beliefs that occurred after the date that most make their case. I think it is embarrassing for many to get caught in an argument over pagan beliefs, when things are written after the fact.

Are there any articles that don't use the Bible to prove itself?

[Sangress]

Sangress
I argue not.An answer to your post though. It's the demon obviously within you.If you want it out either cast it out yourself or find someone sincere and legit who can help you.Renounce satan and you'll ultimitely be rid of it

I would ask you for more details about this, but I have had someone "remove" a "demon" from me before....when in reality she just dragged me out of my body, in the same way people do during an assisted astral projection. I've had people on the street tell me I am possessed as well.

To be honest, I would certainly know if a malvolent spirit was housing in my mind/body/spirit (as I have willingly and unwillingly housed spirits before) and I would also know if I was being controlled or influenced by any kind of "dark" force.

I am relatively experienced with spirits and energy of all kinds, so I think I can certainly rule out demonic possession.

Your input to this topic is appreciated, OmniRedVT.

[Shim]

I would ask you for more details about this, but I have had someone "remove" a "demon" from me before....when in reality she just dragged me out of my body, in the same way people do during an assisted astral projection. I've had people on the street tell me I am possessed as well.

To be honest, I would certainly know if a malvolent spirit was housing in me (as I have housed spirits before) and I would also know if I was being controlled by any kind of "dark" force.

I am experienced with spirits, so I think I can certainly rule out demonic possession.

Your input to this topic is appreciated, OmniRedVT.

Just don't ever let anyone place their hands on your head and pray for you Sangress.

[Sangress]

Just don't ever let anyone place their hands on your head and pray for you Sangress.

Why is that?

Most people pass out when they put their hand on my forehead....so I would not allow people to do so anyway. heh.

[Shim]

There have been numerous occasions just within a small circle of churches where a person has gone mad or has been immediately hospitalized. Some I have witnessed. What was transferred or by any other reason I don't know. All I do know is after having witnessed it I would not let anyone place their hands on my head or my child. Priest or not.

[Sangress]

*Nods* I'll heed that warning.

I only let my partner make a connection to me through my mind, everyone else will get a very painful backlash of energy. Natural psychic defence systems are so convenient. :)

Not so convenient when someone tests your temperature with the back of their hand and then falls unconscious. Lol.

[Shim]

Reminds me of Matthew 19:13... but I don't know why they rebuked them.

[Sangress]

Reminds me of Matthew 19:13... but I don't know why they rebuked them.


Explanation?


I'm leaning further toward a natural aversion to christiantiy, something instinctual that just tweaks at my "fight or flight" response and unnerves me.

Maybe I'm naturally not someone who is "meant" to be affiliated with the christian faith or anything to do with it?

Perhaps I'm simply not capable of that kind of thinking, behaviour, affiliation, connection.....etc?

Or maybe I'm even on the other side of the fence with the anti-christ and I don't even know it? (Oh the irony of that one)

As usual, more questions than answers.

[AngelBreeze]

Why is that?

Most people pass out when they put their hand on my forehead....so I would not allow people to do so anyway. heh.

Greetings Sangress,

I have been reading this thread and wanted to say that the laying-on of hands is a Biblical reality and Christian rite. There are usually no problems when done except perhaps with those whose faith is weak. When their faith is weak, the opposing forces may be able to overtake them in some manner such as what you describe. But when done properly by those with Strong Christian Faith and Belief in Jesus Christ it should become a practice conducive to sound Christian principles. The Power of Christ Can Cast Out Demons and Truly Move Mountains!

Deus tecum and my special wishes for many blessings and a beautiful day!

I Am Sending You Many Hugs With Much Love and Pure Light,
(\o/) AngelBreeze (\o/)

[Sangress]

I have been reading this thread and wanted to say that the laying-on of hands is a Biblical reality and Christian rite. There are usually no problems when done except perhaps with those whose faith is weak. When their faith is weak, the opposing forces may be able to overtake them in some manner such as what you describe

So your saying that if someone isnt "good/faithful/strong" enough to do the laying of the hands thing, they will essentially pass out....etc?

Strange thing with me is that people don't need to be christian or be doing anything spiritual to pass out regardless. I'm positive its me, not them.

[Shim]

Laying on of hands (http://www.gotquestions.org/laying-on-of-hands.html)

Good article, and I wasn't saying for the record that I wouldn't ever let anyone pray for me and lay hands on me such as hand to hand while facing each other as many chaplains have. Just on the head...

[AngelBreeze]

So your saying that if someone isnt "good/faithful/strong" enough to do the laying of the hands thing, they will essentially pass out....etc?

Strange thing with me is that people don't need to be christian or be doing anything spiritual to pass out regardless. I'm positive its me, not them.

Greetings Sangress,

Essentially, I am saying that when incorporating the spiritual services of one who is a Christian, if their faith is not strong enough when dealing with adverse conditions such as yours, things could happen. Exactly what I don't know other than they might not be successful in their undertaking. Therefore, a Christian person needs to well prepare for such a venture beforehand to know that their Faith is strong with their Belief in Jesus Christ so as to avoid any possible mishap.

Of course I cannot speak for a non-Christian and how they might go about it but not believing in the Power of God to heal such a dilemma could seriously undermine their efforts. Now about the people who pass out when they touch your head or forehead, how many times has this happened and what exactly where they doing? What did they say they felt, saw, or heard just before they passed out? Were they Christian or Atheist or do you know? And what do YOU feel when a person is about to pass out? Is there anything you will share about that to better understand what is happening? Thanks.

Deus tecum and my special wishes for many blessings and a beautiful day!

I Am Sending You Many Hugs With Much Love and Pure Light,
(\o/) AngelBreeze (\o/)

[Sangress]

how many times has this happened and what exactly where they doing? What did they say they felt, saw, or heard just before they passed out? Were they Christian or Atheist or do you know? And what do YOU feel when a person is about to pass out? Is there anything you will share about that to better understand what is happening? [/B]]

This has happened at least a doesen times during things as simple as someone (school nurse) putting their hand on my forehead to check my temperature (she almost fainted and then went to get a glass of water, she was pretty shakey,) two psychics who were "connecting" to me (one was religious and she woke up crying and told me to take my money back and leave, the other non-religious one said that she may have been trying too hard to connect to me, and asked whether I was unwilling to go through with the psychic reading) another was a doctor holding my head still (I was 7, getting 24 stitches in my chin) and I remember he crashed into something and was out cold, my dog dropped on the spot when she touched her nose to my forehead and when she came back she would cower away from me, this behaviour lasted for days...but she eventually came to trust me again.

That's all I can pick off the top of my head. I know the doctor and the psychic were religious because they both wore crosses. Not sure about the rest. (Of course my dog was not religious. lol)

The longest someone has passed out, that I can remember, would be about 30 minutes.

What do I feel when a person passes out...hmm....usually I get a jolt right before they fall or stumble, then a pleasureable warmth spreading through my body that makes it hard to feel especially concerned for the other person. After that I either feel like laughing at them (I never do, though I want to) or I just feel angry for no reason, like its some kind of affront to me that they loose consciousness.

Though, this entire passing out thing can happen in two ways. I can put my hand on their head and they will pass out. Same result.

One person passed out once (after I deliberately put my hand on his forehead,) someone who I disliked intensly at that time, and he appeared to seizure on the ground, but I later found out that he was mentally ill (delusional schitzophrenic) and unstable...so I was able to assume that part was not my doing.

He woke up with (apparently) no memory of who I was, which was convenient at the time since he'd just confessed to wanting to kill me because i was apparently "dangerious" and a "monster."

I had done nothing wrong by him in the 8 years I had known him.

I've also tested out this "skill/occurance" on my boyfriend with his permission, same result every time. He just looses consciousness.

[Mind's Eye]

Heh, today I was wandering around town looking for jewlery and found myself autimatially avoiding certain parts of the shops or feeling ill/nervious in certain areas.

I forced myself to go look at a few peices of jewlery that looked quite nice that I suddenly felt resentment for.

Yeh, turns out that shops are selling jewlery with crosses hidden amongst other trinkets on the same chain now, its like the new style apparently......I can't seem to get away from it can I?

If Christian symbols repulse, burn and make you feel nervous... then perhaps there is something within you that is not as it should be. You boast of being an energy taker and such, (no insult intended my friend) yet symbols of the Christ buckle your knees?

If your stories have any validity, (no insult intended again) then I would re-evaluate my spiritual energies and perhaps realize that something greater and more light filled, (and I'm talking symbols and what they stand for, not religion and its dogmas) is master over you and the universe is showing you that what you believe to be power crumbles and faints in the presence of the power of light and love.

Know this as a truth... darkness is weak, though appealing to some. And that is why I said in the past that if I were able to touch you, nothing would happen... I fear not the dark.

[AngelBreeze]

This has happened at least a doesen times during things as simple as someone (school nurse) putting their hand on my forehead to check my temperature (she almost fainted and then went to get a glass of water, she was pretty shakey,) two psychics who were "connecting" to me (one was religious and she woke up crying and told me to take my money back and leave, the other non-religious one said that she may have been trying too hard to connect to me, and asked whether I was unwilling to go through with the psychic reading) another was a doctor holding my head still (I was 7, getting 24 stitches in my chin) and I remember he crashed into something and was out cold, my dog dropped on the spot when she touched her nose to my forehead and when she came back she would cower away from me, this behaviour lasted for days...but she eventually came to trust me again.

That's all I can pick off the top of my head. I know the doctor and the psychic were religious because they both wore crosses. Not sure about the rest. (Of course my dog was not religious. lol)

The longest someone has passed out, that I can remember, would be about 30 minutes.

What do I feel when a person passes out...hmm....usually I get a jolt right before they fall or stumble, then a pleasureable warmth spreading through my body that makes it hard to feel especially concerned for the other person. After that I either feel like laughing at them (I never do, though I want to) or I just feel angry for no reason, like its some kind of affront to me that they loose consciousness.

Though, this entire passing out thing can happen in two ways. I can put my hand on their head and they will pass out. Same result.

One person passed out once (after I deliberately put my hand on his forehead,) someone who I disliked intensly at that time, and he appeared to seizure on the ground, but I later found out that he was mentally ill (delusional schitzophrenic) and unstable...so I was able to assume that part was not my doing.

He woke up with (apparently) no memory of who I was, which was convenient at the time since he'd just confessed to wanting to kill me because i was apparently "dangerious" and a "monster."

I had done nothing wrong by him in the 8 years I had known him.

I've also tested out this "skill/occurance" on my boyfriend with his permission, same result every time. He just looses consciousness.

Greetings Sangress,

(If you do respond, it may make it easier for you to just respond right under my questions. Thank you.)

First of all, thank you for your previous response. Assuming that all you are saying is correct, there has to be something behind it and I'm sure you realize that as well. There are things to say about this but better to simply ask you a few questions starting with if you have ever gone to a priest or higher church official (say a bishop) before? If what you say about your background with being touched is as it is then if you considered going to a priest or other you would need to first advise them of what you are saying here in the forum so that they could better prepare to consider if they would see you.

Have you been to any other health care professional after the one you say you saw at age seven? If so, did they comment on this concern?

By the way, the doctor at age seven that you saw, after he crashed into something and was out cold, did he comment on that or make any association back to you? I know you were fairly young but at age seven one can usually remember and start to understand things a little better and surely one of your parents took you there who might have surely commented on it. Did you ever see him again?

Have people touched you in another place other than your forehead, say your arm, shoulder, face, etc. and if so, does that cause any kind of reaction in them?

Also, is your avatar a picture of yourself, perchance?

Of course I am not a medical doctor thus cannot legally diagnose, advise, etc. on anything like this and am certainly not attempting to do so now as I'm speaking only on a spiritual level but you do realize that this is not common in people don't you? I mean to say that people do not have such an effect on others as you are describing. And the fact that you felt like laughing or being angry at people whom you say reacted as they did to you is also not something that is at all commonly encountered. Do your parents or others have any thoughts on this and what it could be related to?

Let me ask you a few more questions if it is alright with you.
Have you ever worn a cross with Jesus Christ on it that has been blessed by a priest or have you been touched by one? If so, what was the effect it had on you?

Have you ever experienced Holy Water from a Catholic church on your forehead or other part of your body? Bear in mind that no one has to actually touch your forehead to deliver the holy water as there is an instrument priests use to disperse holy water that can travel at a distance. If you have experienced this, what effect did it have on you?

Have you ever been told to pray a Holy prayer such as one from the Holy Bible in the Name of Jesus? If not and you were to be asked to do that, what would be your reply? Realizing that you are not a Believer or a Christian, would you try to do it even as mere curiosity or would you not consider it?

Do you practice any religion or belief system that you would wish to speak about?

Has anyone ever prayed over you in a church setting or other religious building? And would you be opposed to people praying for you there or elsewhere over this concern?

Your story is very intriguing and that is why I felt the need to ask you all of these questions and I hope you don't mind. However, you are free to answer only those you feel comfortable with. Finally, does it disturb you in anyway my asking you these questions and would you rather I not continue to ask them?

Deus tecum and my special wishes for many blessings and a beautiful day!

I Am Sending You Many Hugs With Much Love and Pure Light,
(\o/) AngelBreeze (\o/)

[Miss Hepburn]

Can't wait to see the answers - hope they are in a
different color under each question....wow, this is fascinating.

[LadyVirgoxoxo]

Indeed this is!

[HBuck72]

I think many people have an aversion to Christianity, because of negative experiences with the followers of Christianity. Not that the religion itself is wrong, bad, evil, or base, but that some of its adherents can be very abrasive, because they themselves do not understand the teachings of love and compassion that Jesus Christ exhibited and taught.

[Sangress]

If Christian symbols repulse, burn and make you feel nervous... then perhaps there is something within you that is not as it should be. You boast of being an energy taker and such, (no insult intended my friend) yet symbols of the Christ buckle your knees?

Being an energy taker does not mean I am any stronger or more resiliant than anyone else, quite the opposite in a lot of ways actually. I do not consider taking energy to be unnatural for me, it is how I naturally am and always have been.

If your stories have any validity, (no insult intended again) then I would re-evaluate my spiritual energies and perhaps realize that something greater and more light filled, (and I'm talking symbols and what they stand for, not religion and its dogmas) is master over you and the universe is showing you that what you believe to be power crumbles and faints in the presence of the power of light and love.

I do not consider any religion or person or action to be "light" or "dark."I also do not believe in or adhere to the concept of power (which is simply comparing something as being greater or more superior to something else.) I consider EVERYTHING to be equal. So I can safely say that this does not stem from any of those concepts or perceptions.

Know this as a truth... darkness is weak, though appealing to some. And that is why I said in the past that if I were able to touch you, nothing would happen... I fear not the dark.

There is no darkness, or light in my eyes. I accept everything as it is an choose not to struggle with concepts like this because if I were to do that it would create nothing but pointless inner and external conflict. I am no more fearfull or dark or light than you are.

Thank you for offering your opinion.

[Sangress]

Greetings Sangress,

(If you do respond, it may make it easier for you to just respond right under my questions. Thank you.)

Sorry for the late reply, I've been having computer issues, so I'm typing on my laptop which happens to change the size and font constantly. Lol.

First of all, thank you for your previous response. Assuming that all you are saying is correct, there has to be something behind it and I'm sure you realize that as well. There are things to say about this but better to simply ask you a few questions starting with if you have ever gone to a priest or higher church official (say a bishop) before?

I have not seen a bishop before, a priest yes...though I don't remember it because I was a small child at the time.

If what you say about your background with being touched is as it is then if you considered going to a priest or other you would need to first advise them of what you are saying here in the forum so that they could better prepare to consider if they would see you.

I have considered it before, though my fear...etc seems to get the best of me before I can walk into a place like that and come into contact with someone like that.

It's not a fear of the person themselves, or the place...its just those emotions and reactions that just "happens" to me. If I were to meet a bishop or a priest, it would have to be well away from the church and I think I'd insult them deeply when I ask them to remove their cross and not say any prayers so that I can hopefully tell them exactly what happens when I'm around these things.

Even then, whose to say the person themselves might unnerve me even when they are not standing in the position of a member of a church....it could well be a soul deep thing.


There is at least 12 different churches that I know of in this town alone, so I would also be unsure of which to pick since they all have the same uncomfortable vibe to me.

So, in short - yes I would consider doing it, but whether I am able to get it done, or figure out how to get it done...is another matter entierly.

Have you been to any other health care professional after the one you say you saw at age seven? If so, did they comment on this concern?

No.

By the way, the doctor at age seven that you saw, after he crashed into something and was out cold, did he comment on that or make any association back to you?

I don't remember much of that time, neither of my parents were there (my father was the one who deliberately inflicted the injury and he refused to stay in the room, and refused to call my mother as well) so from what I remember I was essentially rushed to emergency, had my jaw stitched shut and then was dragged back out of there before anyone could question anything.

I know you were fairly young but at age seven one can usually remember and start to understand things a little better and surely one of your parents took you there who might have surely commented on it. Did you ever see him again?

I do not know the name of the man, I barely remember his face (he had a surgical mask and hat-thing on) and if I have seen him since, he did not recodnise me in the slightest.

Have people touched you in another place other than your forehead, say your arm, shoulder, face, etc. and if so, does that cause any kind of reaction in them?

My neck and the palm of my hand has given the same affect once or twice on my partner, though it isn't a common or reliable thing.


Also, is your avatar a picture of yourself, perchance?

It is not me, but now that I consider it, it looks quite similar to me. Lol. (Perhaps a bit more femenine and some black hair showing and it's almost a spitting image.)

Of course I am not a medical doctor thus cannot legally diagnose, advise, etc. on anything like this and am certainly not attempting to do so now as I'm speaking only on a spiritual level but you do realize that this is not common in people don't you?

I never really took the time to think twice about it. It's just yet another of those things that just "happen" in my life. It's normal to me at least.

But yes, I got the impression that it isn't a common occurance for many people....well....no one I know at least.

I mean to say that people do not have such an effect on others as you are describing. And the fact that you felt like laughing or being angry at people whom you say reacted as they did to you is also not something that is at all commonly encountered.

*Nods* Haven't thought of it like that before.

Do your parents or others have any thoughts on this and what it could be related to?

My friends generally make the excuse of "but, your just weird!" for a lot of things I do (I assume it basically means that its abnormal, but they expect it from me after knowing me for a while.)

My science teacher insists that I have a lot of static and kinetic energy and thinks I should take up "bending spoons" because she would be interested to see what would happen (being serious...not in a joking way.)

My mother enjoys ignoring every odd thing she sees, likes to make me seem more "normal" and cover up anything that happens in front of her (and others.) Denial is one of her "assets" it seems.

My sister, of course, insists on demons or nephilim or bad spirits or angels....etc. But her opinion is obviously completely unreliable.

Let me ask you a few more questions if it is alright with you.

Perfectly fine with me.

Have you ever worn a cross with Jesus Christ on it that has been blessed by a priest or have you been touched by one? If so, what was the effect it had on you?

No one has ever gotten me to wear a cross. My sister attempted to slip one over my head while I was sleeping once, I woke up and threw it out the window on impulse.

I can barely be near crosses or even hold them, so chances are something worse would happen if I were to wear one.

Either way I don't wish to find out regardless of who gave it to me. A cross is a cross regardless of where its from or how its made. (No offense intended to anyone...thats just my honest thoughts on the matter.)

Have you ever experienced Holy Water from a Catholic church on your forehead or other part of your body?

No, not at all. I dislike water...well, fear it actually.

Unless I truly need to touch it or drink it...etc. I simply don't make contact with it.

Bear in mind that no one has to actually touch your forehead to deliver the holy water as there is an instrument priests use to disperse holy water that can travel at a distance. If you have experienced this, what effect did it have on you?

I don't think I have experienced this. I think I may have seen it before....and if the image/memory is correct, I certainly kept my distance.

Have you ever been told to pray a Holy prayer such as one from the Holy Bible in the Name of Jesus?

Tried to once. I think I got through a few words then choked on my own spit. I remember coughing at least (this was at the christian camp thing, when an elderly man wanted me to repeat something from a book. I assume now it was the bible.) My throat went raw and I lost my voice for two days. I assumed I was just getting the flu though, because around that time of year there were harsh westerly winds.

I have trouble reading prayers too because I get a headache when I try repeating the words I read in my mind. I tend to give up after my thoughts get jumbled and foggy.

If not and you were to be asked to do that, what would be your reply?

Regardless of whether I have tried before, I'd try again regardless. Words can't hurt too much.

Realizing that you are not a Believer or a Christian, would you try to do it even as mere curiosity or would you not consider it?

*points to answer above* Pretty much the same answer.

Do you practice any religion or belief system that you would wish to speak about?

I don't practice any specific religion, but I do have a couple of types of animals who I am connected to in ways that are similar to American Indian Totem animals...so I suppose that is some form of religious practice/belief that I am influenced by.

Has anyone ever prayed over you in a church setting or other religious building?

A woman from the community church up the road from me came out of it and had a chat to me a few days ago. She essentially attempted to convert me because they needed some "nice, intelligent and independant women" in the church.

I walked to the steps with her and then stopped and let her know that I wouldn't go much further for personal reasons and looked her directly in the eyes and attempted to let her get the gist that I really didn't want to be there. (I have no idea of why I assumed a glance could show her....I suppose I just expect people to "know" if I want them to.)

She got all flustered then and backed away and did the whole "cross" hand gesture put her hand on my shoulder (I had a jacket on, so I didn't need to move back in case she passed out. I've figured out only skin to skin does that.)

And she nodded to me, said she understood that I had such "great responsibility" on me and then opened her mouth and said a prayer to me.

My ears started ringing loudly, I got a headache and didn't catch much of what she said. I just nodded and left and she waved and said I was welcome to come back any time.

Not sure what to think of it. Almost forgot about the entire thing to be honest, my mind always wipes things like that clean until I have to think on it.

And would you be opposed to people praying for you there or elsewhere over this concern?

I don't know to be honest.

I mean, I suppose if they want to they can...but if it's going to give me a headache and make my ears ring so loudly that I can barely hear for an hour....then I'm not sure whether it's the best thing to do, or whether it will give me any answers.

So, I am open to the possibility as long as it doesn't hurt me...etc.

I'm not sure why they would pray over this concern. i agree that it's not a pleasant thing, but I am more interested in figuring out why it is there so I can understand myself more deeply...rather than having others pray to....get rid of it?

Ah, that is what I should be asking. Why would they pray for/over this? What is there to pray for (not sure of the specifics of it all?)

Your story is very intriguing and that is why I felt the need to ask you all of these questions and I hope you don't mind. However, you are free to answer only those you feel comfortable with.

I have nothing to hide, so I've answered all of them (I think..if I've missed one let me know because that wouldn't have been intentional.)

Also, why does it intrigue you? I thought I was the only one interested.

Finally, does it disturb you in anyway my asking you these questions and would you rather I not continue to ask them?

The only thing that seemed to disturb me a little was writing about wearing a cross, and the holy water. It surprised me that the recount of the thing at the church wasn't as difficult to write about as I thought it would be.

At the time it left me a bit shakey, maybe even shocked...and I had to go and lie down after because I was just exhausted...but writing about it and remembering it is actually quite easy.

Deus tecum and my special wishes for many blessings and a beautiful day!

Right back at you. (I recodnise the first part as latin, can't figure out what it means though...so depending on what it means...maybe right back at you. lol.)

[Sangress]

I think many people have an aversion to Christianity, because of negative experiences with the followers of Christianity. Not that the religion itself is wrong, bad, evil, or base, but that some of its adherents can be very abrasive, because they themselves do not understand the teachings of love and compassion that Jesus Christ exhibited and taught.


*Nods* I agree with that.

If I fell into any of those catagories all of these confusing reactions and emotions would be more well understood by now.

(Not to say that I understand the teachings themselves in the context of being involved in them. I know christianity mostly through observations and factual information and by comparing my non-religious experiences to the teachings of Jesus Christ...etc.....so that is very different compared to being a true part of it all.)

[ZeroPointField]

Hey, Sangress. I didn't even read any of the other replies on this, so I'm sorry if I repeat, but wanted to throw in a few thoughts. You know from past discussions that I could make this into a gigantic essay, but I'm way tired so I'm just gonna throw in a few discombobulated thoughts.

For those others of you reading this, my comments are not at all "blanket statements" about any aspect of Christians or Christianity. I'm just referring to the bits and pieces and groups and events, etc. that I don't like.

Although maybe my feelings aren't/weren't as extreme as yours(though possibly close many years ago), I've definitely felt the same way. I don't feel nearly the same way I used to, but to explain the whole thing right now would take forever.

One concept in Christianity that has always really bothered me is the idea of "worship". I won't even try to explain my definition of "God" right now, but I do believe in something. But what I believe in, AND even more importantly to this discussion, what most Christianity describes God to be(which is what's so hypocritical to me) is a God that would want absolutely nothing to do with "worship". Bowing heads, kneeling, and all the other jazz relating to the concept of worship just seems absolutely ridiculous to me.

Even the idea of disrespecting God or Jesus in certain ways Christians consider disrespect, I personally think is a bit ridiculous to worry about. If God, or Jesus, exists the way Christianity explains him/them, then I don't think they would care in the slightest if someone used a bad word with their name, or even much worse things.

All of this with the worship and respect seems to me more the way a dictator or emperor would expect to be treated, but doesn't go at all with this idea of a wonderful, all-loving, forgiving, compassionate God the way Christians describe(unless it doesn't support their purposes at the time, in which case he becomes the big, wrathful scary guy all the sudden as if he's bipolar).

This brings up another thought - all the absolute hypocrisy that is involved. Christianity has a ton of hypocrisy involved with it for many, many years, and hypocrisy turns my stomach in any circumstances.

Also, although you mentioned that there have been some absolutely wonderful things done in the name of Christianity, the name and ideals of Christianity have been used to commit some of most horrendous moral crimes in history.

There's a lot of good sides to it too, as you already said you recognize, and for all those probably foaming at the mouth right now about my comments, I'm mentioning that I see these too.

I'll stop here, but I could go on. There are PLENTY of reasons why it might be reasonable for you to feel this way. I would say on the other side of it though, that after a long time of feeling a similar way myself, I've come to change my feelings quite a bit by putting aside a TON of the standard definitions and interpretations of Christianity and coming to understand things in a way that makes much more sense to me. I still don't consider myself a Christian, but I've come to understand the ideas in it in a different way.

Yeah, yeah...not short like I said as usual, but for me, this is short.

[Sangress]

Hey, Sangress. I didn't even read any of the other replies on this, so I'm sorry if I repeat, but wanted to throw in a few thoughts. You know from past discussions that I could make this into a gigantic essay, but I'm way tired so I'm just gonna throw in a few discombobulated thoughts.

For those others of you reading this, my comments are not at all "blanket statements" about any aspect of Christians or Christianity. I'm just referring to the bits and pieces and groups and events, etc. that I don't like.

Although maybe my feelings aren't/weren't as extreme as yours(though possibly close many years ago), I've definitely felt the same way. I don't feel nearly the same way I used to, but to explain the whole thing right now would take forever.

One concept in Christianity that has always really bothered me is the idea of "worship". I won't even try to explain my definition of "God" right now, but I do believe in something. But what I believe in, AND even more importantly to this discussion, what most Christianity describes God to be(which is what's so hypocritical to me) is a God that would want absolutely nothing to do with "worship". Bowing heads, kneeling, and all the other jazz relating to the concept of worship just seems absolutely ridiculous to me.

Even the idea of disrespecting God or Jesus in certain ways Christians consider disrespect, I personally think is a bit ridiculous to worry about. If God, or Jesus, exists the way Christianity explains him/them, then I don't think they would care in the slightest if someone used a bad word with their name, or even much worse things.

All of this with the worship and respect seems to me more the way a dictator or emperor would expect to be treated, but doesn't go at all with this idea of a wonderful, all-loving, forgiving, compassionate God the way Christians describe(unless it doesn't support their purposes at the time, in which case he becomes the big, wrathful scary guy all the sudden as if he's bipolar).

This brings up another thought - all the absolute hypocrisy that is involved. Christianity has a ton of hypocrisy involved with it for many, many years, and hypocrisy turns my stomach in any circumstances.

Also, although you mentioned that there have been some absolutely wonderful things done in the name of Christianity, the name and ideals of Christianity have been used to commit some of most horrendous moral crimes in history.

There's a lot of good sides to it too, as you already said you recognize, and for all those probably foaming at the mouth right now about my comments, I'm mentioning that I see these too.

I'll stop here, but I could go on. There are PLENTY of reasons why it might be reasonable for you to feel this way. I would say on the other side of it though, that after a long time of feeling a similar way myself, I've come to change my feelings quite a bit by putting aside a TON of the standard definitions and interpretations of Christianity and coming to understand things in a way that makes much more sense to me. I still don't consider myself a Christian, but I've come to understand the ideas in it in a different way.

Yeah, yeah...not short like I said as usual, but for me, this is short.


Firstly, thanks for offering your opinion.

Secondly, I partly connected to what you said about worship and not offending God. (Partly = not in a direct way since this kind of thing encompases all religions.)

Since I see everything as being equal, I am practically incapable of (or feel like I am incapable of) worshipping or sort of debasing myself in any way by seeing or treating myself as a lesser being than anyone or any thing.

I am fine with respecting another person as an equal by showing my gratitude through recognition of who they are and what they do....but I won't see myself as lesser than them, or as needing to withold anything from them so as not to offend them.

I feel that trying not to offend another person is essentially showing that I am submissive, disloyal and dishonest toward them, that they can control my actions simply by becoming displeased with me...and therefore falsly make me be a "lesser" person than they are.

In my opinion, disrespecting a person is simply not treating them as an equal, as you would expect to be treated.

I do not expect anyone to avoid things so as not to offend me. I would much prefer they be honest and comfortable and open in everything they do and say around me.

Basically, I wan't people to be their natural selves and withold nothing of themselves if they are in my presence.

So, in a way, the way I personally opperate may be vastly different to people of the christian faith, who look up to and idolise God and Jesus...etc.

But having said that, I could easily be part of the christian faith and treat God as my equal simply by being myself in his/her presence.....which is something I suppose I am already doing....which doesn;t seem to be working for me at all! Hah.

But yeh...from the last comment you can see how I agree with you on that one, but how it doesn't affect my current situation...

(Not sure if that made sense)

Also, good job on not writing an entire novel. :p.

(That was his version of short, believe it or not.)

[Sangress]

I'm thinking of maybe researching anti-christ religions to see whether I can get any answers there.

But I wonder whether it isn't a wise thing to do...

I mean, it would be exactly like all my other research of religions, gather facts, a few interviews, understand the meanings behind their beliefs, research texts, ethics and traditions/ceremonies/celebrations. And if I really wanted to I could delve into their historical records (or look through past life memories to see what I can gain from personal experience.)

But I wonder whether I'd be more inclined to agree with anti-christian people and concepts...which is something I don't want because I would like to remain completely open and neutural in all of this.

Then again, perhaps in communities like that there is a larger chance of meeting someone with the same issue as myself in regards to the christian religion...and therefore hopefully learning further about why I am the way I am.

*Sigh* Decisions, decisions.

Theres also the question of whether I force myself to go and meet a priest or someone of a higher status within a church to see what they will say (this would be before I look into the anti-christ, if I look into it.)

Does anyone have any opinion/advice on these ideas?

[Shabda]

I'm thinking of maybe researching anti-christ religions to see whether I can get any answers there.

But I wonder whether it isn't a wise thing to do...

I mean, it would be exactly like all my other research of religions, gather facts, a few interviews, understand the meanings behind their beliefs, research texts, ethics and traditions/ceremonies/celebrations. And if I really wanted to I could delve into their historical records (or look through past life memories to see what I can gain from personal experience.)

But I wonder whether I'd be more inclined to agree with anti-christian people and concepts...which is something I don't want because I would like to remain completely open and neutural in all of this.

Then again, perhaps in communities like that there is a larger chance of meeting someone with the same issue as myself in regards to the christian religion...and therefore hopefully learning further about why I am the way I am.

*Sigh* Decisions, decisions.

Theres also the question of whether I force myself to go and meet a priest or someone of a higher status within a church to see what they will say (this would be before I look into the anti-christ, if I look into it.)

Does anyone have any opinion/advice on these ideas? it sort of depends on your own view of the whole of things...to research unchristian paths and religions is only viewed as taking a side of things if one is a christian, otherwise it can only be viewed as a more wholisitic take on things, refusing to be judged by christian standards...i myself at one point in time researched satanism, merely out of curiosity, i found that it didnt appeal to me any more than christianity did, but i think thew most important aspect of it was that i bothered to look at all, i wasnt afraid, and didnt fear any repercussions, and there were none, other than my own education about such matters...if you care to find a truth that may be even beyond your own point of view, study ALL of them without hindrance or preconceived notions, and if i may make a suggestion, notice what is most similar amongst the many paths, and then also notice what does and doesnt match what you yourself experience in physical life, as well as the inner worlds, at the very least, you will have begun a more completely knowledgeable way of looking at things, of attempting to view the whole...your own view of It will be completely different than all others in any case, but just the same, you may be surprised to find some similarities that you didnt expect to find and also,this shows true out of the box learning...not settling for what some paths may have spoken out for or against, but looking with an open heart, with your own eye...im not sure there is really any other way than personal observation and experience, but do the search yourself, you may find something i hadnt noticed before, and you may teach me, i am very willing to learn, eternally a student...

[ZeroPointField]

Hey, a quick thing...I think you should research whatever you want. You're smart enough to keep an open mind. *However*, I think something that might help you more than anything at this point would be to look into some of the non-"Christian", although not "anti", ideas about Christ and Christianity and God. I particularly mean older texts that are considered esoteric/occult/mystical texts.

Look into Theosophy, maybe Rosicrucianism, Anthroposophy, and probably some others I'm not thinking of now. Look at the OLDER stuff. It gets very technical and rather scientific even, and has some views and explanations about Christ, Christianity, God, religion, etc. that are sooooooo far off of most anything you've read that it may give you some new perspective. Depending on the author, some decide to use weird symbolism or dramatics, but some are very scientific, and it can be hard to know what they really mean if you haven't read some foundational stuff in these philosophies first, but I think that would help you get some very unique perspectives. I can give you some more specific authors, books to look into later. I've gotta run out to dinner now.

[Shabda]

Hey, a quick thing...I think you should research whatever you want. You're smart enough to keep an open mind. *However*, I think something that might help you more than anything at this point would be to look into some of the non-"Christian", although not "anti", ideas about Christ and Christianity and God. I particularly mean older texts that are considered esoteric/occult/mystical texts.

Look into Theosophy, maybe Rosicrucianism, Anthroposophy, and probably some others I'm not thinking of now. Look at the OLDER stuff. It gets very technical and rather scientific even, and has some views and explanations about Christ, Christianity, God, religion, etc. that are sooooooo far off of most anything you've read that it may give you some new perspective. Depending on the author, some decide to use weird symbolism or dramatics, but some are very scientific, and it can be hard to know what they really mean if you haven't read some foundational stuff in these philosophies first, but I think that would help you get some very unique perspectives. I can give you some more specific authors, books to look into later. I've gotta run out to dinner now.
that is a VERY good point, as far as christianity is concerned, it's likely a great idea to read some of those apocryphal texts that were left out of the bible...here are some links...
http://www.gnosis.org/naghamm/tripart.htm

http://www.essene.com/GospelOfPeace/peace4.html

[ZeroPointField]

Ride hasn't got here yet. Just for the sake of clarity, the links just provided by Shabda are not the same as the texts In was referring to. I'm sure they have some great stuff too, but I'm not familiar with them specifically and wanted to let you know it's not the same as the stuff I mentioned.

[Shabda]

yes, no rosicrucian or theosophy texts there...

[Sangress]

Thank you everyone. I'll look all of this up when I can. (My laptop blocks a lot of sites because it is from the government, so I'll have to look at the links at the local library.)

[ZeroPointField]

damn government...

[Shabda]

damn government...
satanic basturds

[Miss Hepburn]

http://www.gnosis.org/naghamm/tripart.htm (http://www.spiritualforums.com/vb/redir.php?link=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.spiritualforums.co m%2Fvb%2Fredir.php%3Flink%3Dhttp%253A%252F%252Fwww .spiritualforums.com%252Fvb%252Fredir.php%253Flink %253Dhttp%25253A%25252F%25252Fwww.spiritualforums. com%25252Fvb%25252Fredir.php%25253Flink%25253Dhttp %2525253A%2525252F%2525252Fwww.gnosis.org%2525252F naghamm%2525252Ftripart.htm)



Wow:
Not one of the names which are conceived or spoken,
seen or grasped - not one of them applies to him, even though they are exceedingly glorious, magnifying and honored.
However, it is possible to utter these names for his glory and honor, in accordance with the capacity of each of those who give him glory.
Yet as for him, in his own existence, being and form, it is impossible for mind to conceive him, nor can any speech convey him,
nor can any eye see him, nor can any body grasp him, because of his inscrutable greatness, and his incomprehensible depth,
and his immeasurable height, and his illimitable will.

This is the nature of the unbegotten one,
which does not touch anything else; nor is it joined (to anything) in the manner of something which is limited.
Rather, he possesses this constitution, without having a face or a form, things which are understood through perception,
whence also comes (the epithet) "the incomprehensible.
If he is incomprehensible, then it follows that he is unknowable,
that he is the one who is inconceivable by any thought,
invisible by any thing, ineffable by any word, untouchable by any hand.

He alone is the one who knows himself as he is, along with his form and his greatness and his magnitude.
And since he has the ability to conceive of himself, to see himself, to name himself, to comprehend himself, he alone
is the one who is his own mind, his own eye, his own mouth, his own form, and he is what he thinks, what he sees, what
he speaks, what he grasps, himself, the
one who is inconceivable, ineffable,
incomprehensible, immutable, while
sustaining, joyous, true, delightful, and
restful is that which he conceives, that
which he sees, that about which he speaks,
that which he has as thought. He transcends all wisdom,
and is above all intellect, and is above all glory,
and is above all beauty, and all sweetness,
and all greatness, and any depth and any height.

[Sangress]

Wow:
Not one of the names which are conceived or spoken,
seen or grasped - not one of them applies to him, even though they are exceedingly glorious, magnifying and honored.
However, it is possible to utter these names for his glory and honor, in accordance with the capacity of each of those who give him glory.
Yet as for him, in his own existence, being and form, it is impossible for mind to conceive him, nor can any speech convey him,
nor can any eye see him, nor can any body grasp him, because of his inscrutable greatness, and his incomprehensible depth,
and his immeasurable height, and his illimitable will.

This is the nature of the unbegotten one,
which does not touch anything else; nor is it joined (to anything) in the manner of something which is limited.
Rather, he possesses this constitution, without having a face or a form, things which are understood through perception,
whence also comes (the epithet) "the incomprehensible.
If he is incomprehensible, then it follows that he is unknowable,
that he is the one who is inconceivable by any thought,
invisible by any thing, ineffable by any word, untouchable by any hand.

He alone is the one who knows himself as he is, along with his form and his greatness and his magnitude.
And since he has the ability to conceive of himself, to see himself, to name himself, to comprehend himself, he alone
is the one who is his own mind, his own eye, his own mouth, his own form, and he is what he thinks, what he sees, what
he speaks, what he grasps, himself, the
one who is inconceivable, ineffable,
incomprehensible, immutable, while
sustaining, joyous, true, delightful, and
restful is that which he conceives, that
which he sees, that about which he speaks,
that which he has as thought. He transcends all wisdom,
and is above all intellect, and is above all glory,
and is above all beauty, and all sweetness,
and all greatness, and any depth and any height.

To me, all of that pretty much said three things -

1. god is superior to everything
2. nothing can understand who or what god is
3. god knows everything

Anyone get much else from that?

[Shim]

To me, all of that pretty much said three things -

1. god is superior to everything
2. nothing can understand who or what god is
3. god knows everything

Anyone get much else from that?


This is the nature of the unbegotten one,
which does not touch anything else; nor is it joined (to anything) in the manner of something which is limited.

[Shim]

Deleted....

[Sangress]

Hmm, it seems too vague (and very precise) for my liking.

I wan't to ask "how can god exist if nothing understands it and it is not connected to anything to give any proof to its existance....etc" but it's pointless to debate about it because no one knows any of the answers....unless they are god. :P

*Goes off to study the roots and beginnings of christianity*

I'll let you all know about my findings when I feel like I have some form of an understanding of it all.

[yinepu]

I was debating whether to put this here, because I thought i would offend people. But I'm not insulting the religion of Christianity or anything related to it, just looking for opinions from people who know more about Christianity than I do.

All my life I've had an aversion to god and anything christian related.

The sight or mention of anything christian related makes my hackles rise every single time, makes my skin crawl, makes me feel so horribly malevolent and irrational, hateful and generally wanting to just laugh in a sneery kind of way.

It really surprises me and nothing else gets that kind of reaction from me. I have no idea of where these emotions come up from, but they are there and they belong to me.

I've tried to research the religion, tried to ask my sister about it, tried to empathize with it and understand and feel something other than these overpowering negative vibes.....but after years of endeavoring against the emotions to find truth it has not changed.

It seems so ridiculous and hypocritical to me that I cannot seem to help but feel this way about Christianity and the beliefs and history involved with it.

I know that this religion has helped people all around the world and shaped our world as we know it. It brings hope to peoples lives and inspires generosity too.

I have no reason not to like Christianity...yet here I am, still feeling utterly hateful of it.

Why and how on earth can I feel this way?

Has anyone come across someone else reacting this way to Christianity?

Can anyone find a reason for this?

I'm at my wits end with trying to understand why I react this way, so hopefully others might be able to help me see a different perspective and help me understand these feelings.

I apologize for offending anyone and have no want for this thread to be come an argument. I have my best intentions in mind.

Thank you


HI Sangress , i stole this from Miss Hepburns thread, Im reading it at moment , it might help you to make sense of your aversion.

Im the same as you and this confirms to me why i have an aversion to religions. Yinepu





"Oh, a priest that passes over and details his experience for months - in many books.

http://anthony3741.tripod.com/

Miss Hepburn"

[Miss Hepburn]

I hope I'm not spilling the beans - the book isn't a movie or anything - but let me say
- in Book 2 'More in the Unseen World' - that is when the priest finally talks about man made orthodoxy.
I remember copying paragraphs and sending them to friends ---he was so articulate
and right on about the dastardliness sp?
of religions and spells out so many things they have 100% wrong, thus,
screwing with man's spirit and happiness here!!!

Anyone with any heart or intuition or discernment can tell
what he is saying is true.

What a masterpiece of information these books are.
Again, if someone wants them in pdf form I'll send them out to you - I feel I possess gold having them.

:smile: Miss Hepburn

[Sangress]

I've only read a few paragraphs from the book in that link and I find it very interesting and informative.

The pdf version(s) would be nice.

[AngelBreeze]

Hmm, it seems too vague (and very precise) for my liking.

I wan't to ask "how can god exist if nothing understands it and it is not connected to anything to give any proof to its existance....etc" but it's pointless to debate about it because no one knows any of the answers....unless they are god. :P

Greetings, Sangress!

In answer to your question, they do not have to be God to understand certain aspects of His Divine nature. God incidentally, is a "He" according to the Holy Bible and Jesus Christ. You see, leading theologians and others who study the mysteries of spiritual life have informed us that God has existed all of the "time." Even before "time" as we know it. That is, He is Alpha and Omega. Both the beginning and the end, which will of course never come for God. But the term is used to illustrate that if there was ever an end to anything, God would be in control of it.

To further try to understand God's existence in the most simplistic way possible, one has to imagine a dimension where only True Love and True Light exists. Nothing mundane, as we know it here. Absolutely nothing that would separate from God and His true nature. Where His angels dwell and serve Him non-endingly and sing songs of praise to Him continuously since time immemorial. We cannot even imagine such a place of such magnificent beauty since we have not ever been there and could not be there because when a person passes from this dimension into the world of spirit, they more than likely end up in the Third Dimension of Spirit. It is somewhat similar to this world except that there is no illness, no need to eat, no need to sleep, no need to work, no arguments, no discord, no need for cars really. It is a spiritually mental world where things just happen by pure thought. If someone there wishes to go to some other place they have to but think of the place and in that instant, that we would consider the blink of an eye, they would be there. All communication in the world of spirit also occurs through pure telepathy, by the way.

But man is still not pure enough to go to a place of Complete Purity like the "Seventh Heaven" where God is said to exist. They could not even approach its outer dimensions since to be able to accept or survive in a certain surrounding or dimension would require one to be just like that surrounding or dimension. And no one is thus pure enough to be exactly where God is to be able to see Him. Yet we know He exists by what we see in our surroundings that no man could have ever created, starting with our very life. It is like knowing there is air in our atmosphere but not being able to see it. We don't have to see air to know it's there. The same with God. To get a small glimpse of what it could be like to enter into a place where you are not acclimated to, picture what would happen if you were to enter into the coldest spot in the North Pole with just a plain pair of pants and shirt (an unprepared state of being.) You would freeze in almost an instant and expire. You might now begin to get an idea of just how spiritually PURE one has to be in order to be in the highest dimensions of God in the process of trying to ascertain if He exists, though I have already made a good analogy as to that. If we were to dare attempt to enter with just our spiritual body after spending a few thousand years in one of the lower spiritual dimensions, we could not pass to it because we would be stopped immediately, frozen on our path as in Antarctica, due to our vibrations not being clean and pure enough to enter any higher than where we would be.

It is also said that it would take man trillions of our earth years or more of continuous spiritual lessons, cleansing, and purity to even be close enough to the Seventh Heaven and still not be able to fully attain it. And although we are eternal beings, who once we leave this physical dimension called earth (that is at Number 1 of 10, with 10 being the highest dimension,) we will enter into the higher dimensions of God's Light. Yes, when we're spiritually ready, we will slowly gravitate to each subsequent level as we show our purity, light, kindness, compassion, and love. That is the only way to ascend higher. That is why it takes some people almost an eternity to reach that state of purity to ascend any higher than where they were sent originally after physical dis-connection. Others in a continuous state of grace, like saintly people, will be able to ascend quicker. But to those who are not ready, they simply could not withstand the extreme loving vibrations and the higher, finer light with their spiritual body just coming from the earth plane. Therefore, they could not enter any higher than their appointed place after ceasing their physical existence on this plane.

If you follow what I am saying here, you will begin to get the picture in answer to your question. No one has seen God except His Son Jesus and God's angels, and of course, Lucifer, who was once one of God's angels in Heaven but we all know the rest of that story.

In sum, to be able to see God would mean that you would have to be an equal to God because of His tremendous spiritual vibration which is trillions and trillions and beyond times higher than any man could ever possibly imagine. That is why it is so hard to see God even when in spirit. But fortunately, His Son Jesus Christ is sent to be closer to us when we pass on. And of course, we know that God is with us even here on earth even though we do not see Him. That is because God can do that at His will but we cannot do likewise. And we have a great spiritual connection that He gave to us which is a mental as well as spiritual one whereby we can call out to God and pray to Him and He will listen to our prayers and respond according to His will.

*Goes off to study the roots and beginnings of christianity*

I'll let you all know about my findings when I feel like I have some form of an understanding of it all.

Deus tecum, (\o/) AngelBreeze (\o/)

"Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost: Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and, lo, I am with you alway, even unto the end of the world. Amen."-- MATTHEW 28: 19-20 (KJV)

"Whosoever transgresseth, and abideth not in the doctrine of Christ, hath not God. He that abideth in the doctrine of Christ, he hath both the Father and the Son." -- II JOHN 9 (KJV)

[Sangress]

Thank you for offering your opinion, angelBreeze.

[AngelBreeze]

Thank you for offering your opinion, angelBreeze.

You're most welcome, Sangress! I hope you consider it good food for thought!

Deus tecum, (\o/) AngelBreeze (\o/)

"Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost: Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and, lo, I am with you alway, even unto the end of the world. Amen."-- MATTHEW 28: 19-20 (KJV)

"Whosoever transgresseth, and abideth not in the doctrine of Christ, hath not God. He that abideth in the doctrine of Christ, he hath both the Father and the Son." -- II JOHN 9 (KJV)

[Miss Hepburn]

I've only read a few paragraphs from the book in that link and I find it very interesting and informative.

The pdf version(s) would be nice.
My pleasure.

You can pm me your email address if you'd like and I'll get them right out to you probably in the form of an attachment is how I've done it before...then you 'Save as' ---- and you'll have it in your Documents.
That's how I got the 4-5 books of the Padgett Messages from Divine Love. :)

[Celeste]

Maybe it has something to do with Christianity being forced on one. Some Christians believe in this, and for some of us it is a turnoff. Forgive me for saying the words, and I don't want to insult anyone. Jesus freaks.

[Light21]

Celeste I am a Jesus Freak no I dont throw my beliefs down someones throat. I havent been on here in a while nor have I read every update on this thread.
Sangress take a look around. A simple look with an open mind without thoughts. Do this in nature. Realize how small you are compared to the ocean, a tree, mountain, etc. Then look at how humanity has tried so hard to create these things themselves and have failed miserably. We can create artificial versions. That alone varifies my belief in God and his son Jesus. Maybe you are trying to hard to understand things. I will never ever understand every little detail of the Bible I dont care too. All I know is that there is a God he has a son named Jesus and I love them both very much as they love me. I am loved even when I am not loving, when I am angry and hateful, sad and depressed without seeing hope in my life. Many people that have gone through my life have never stuck with me through the bad moments. God is always there and always pulls me out. I dont understand things like how a drunk driver that hit my husband and I got away with it while we are slowly going into debt over it. She is getting away with it in this world. It isnt my place to understand situations like that. It simply is. What good would understanding do in my life? Would it solve anything? Would it create proper justice? No. God understands what the court system and insurance companies are thinking. God understands the bigger picture because he knows the minds and hearts of those involved. I know that for sure. I Have finally forgiven the drunk driver because of realizing this. Understanding why things like this happen in life are not going to solve your problems. Including understanding why others have hurt you. What you learn from the rough stuff is what matters and if you come out of it stronger or weaker. Just dont let the darkness of what others have done to you and thrown in your face affect you anymore. Get over the abusive things. Move past it. Realize that its your past it isnt your future. Unless you want to abuse yourself. I spent my entire life abuseing myself then blameing it on others. Was it fair what others ? No. I cant ever control what someone does to me or what happens but I can control MY ACTIONS and MY THOUGHTS towards myself and others no matter what. I hope this helps in some way.

[Light21]

was it fair what others did..sorry i left out did towards the end.

[unus supra]

im not Christian, i dont have any belief system.....but i will say this

if any of us respond so strongly to something, and thats me as well. be it a spoken word from a friend or an enemy, a knife or a leaf. whatever it may be.

Books could be written as to why Christianity is the guiding light of this world, and we would be in dire straights without it.
Books could be written as to why Christianity is the path of suffering and hipocracy, and we must ban it.

and they would both be right in a number of ways, and wrong in a number of ways. thus we would have a stalemate.

And it doesnt matter either way.

What does this mean? Because you can apply this to every other conflicting belief system that exists.
Look closely because this is the same dynamics at play between the dominant political parities that are shaping the USA and leading it absolutely nowhere real quick. And this will influence the entire world.

no reasoning will lead to an effective solution, so what does this mean?

it means we have personal work we need to engage in. No "thing" should bother us so much. Especially not a sound (God) or combination of sounds..

this is not an insult

[Miss Hepburn]

if any of us respond so strongly to something, and thats me as well. be it a spoken word from a friend or an enemy, a knife or a leaf. whatever it may be...
it means we have personal work we need to engage in.

No "thing" should bother us so much.

That is the major thing I brought out of all my relationships and therapy.
I say this to my hot headed friends alot --- I used to be one...hot-headed.
It did take me a looong time to get it, though - gosh, I was all immature and self-righteous!!! LOL!!!!

Now if I even feel the slightest rise in me from anything (a bad waitress or difference of opinion) I look at ME.
It hardly happens anymore though.
I'm Miss Cool as a cucumber.
:cool:

Or maybe I'm just so self-centered I just don't care what others do or think.
Shrug. See, I don't even care if I know what it is.
Ahh, the freedom, by His Grace.
:D

[Sangress]

Sangress take a look around. A simple look with an open mind without thoughts. Do this in nature. Realize how small you are compared to the ocean, a tree, mountain, etc. Then look at how humanity has tried so hard to create these things themselves and have failed miserably. We can create artificial versions. That alone varifies my belief in God and his son Jesus. Maybe you are trying to hard to understand things. I will never ever understand every little detail of the Bible I dont care too. All I know is that there is a God he has a son named Jesus and I love them both very much as they love me. I am loved even when I am not loving, when I am angry and hateful, sad and depressed without seeing hope in my life. Many people that have gone through my life have never stuck with me through the bad moments. God is always there and always pulls me out. I dont understand things like how a drunk driver that hit my husband and I got away with it while we are slowly going into debt over it. She is getting away with it in this world. It isnt my place to understand situations like that. It simply is. What good would understanding do in my life? Would it solve anything? Would it create proper justice? No. God understands what the court system and insurance companies are thinking. God understands the bigger picture because he knows the minds and hearts of those involved. I know that for sure. I Have finally forgiven the drunk driver because of realizing this. Understanding why things like this happen in life are not going to solve your problems. Including understanding why others have hurt you. What you learn from the rough stuff is what matters and if you come out of it stronger or weaker. Just dont let the darkness of what others have done to you and thrown in your face affect you anymore. Get over the abusive things. Move past it. Realize that its your past it isnt your future. Unless you want to abuse yourself. I spent my entire life abuseing myself then blameing it on others. Was it fair what others ? No. I cant ever control what someone does to me or what happens but I can control MY ACTIONS and MY THOUGHTS towards myself and others no matter what. I hope this helps in some way.
Light, I didn't know you still checked in here. :) (I know this person personally.) Your reply was a surprise to me.

At this point, my reasoning for wanting to understand these reactions I have is because I believe my answer will help me get to know myself better.

If I react to something, then I'll find the source of it, learn from it and then move past it until I feel that I must take a look at it again...that is just how I opperate.

I am not attempting to blame anything on god or a religion and I'm not attempting to pick at it as though it is a problem...and in affect blow it out of proportion by focusing on it, I'm attempting to understand my own reaction to it...that is all.

I don't expect any kind of closure or justification or excuse for my thoughts or actions to come out of my search for answers (because I don't want any of those things,) but I do expect to understand what is happening more than I already do and then use that knowledge in a productive way for both myself and others.

it means we have personal work we need to engage in. No "thing" should bother us so much. Especially not a sound (God) or combination of sounds..
I agree with you and personal work is what I am engaging in.


I've meditated a lot lately and searched deeper than usual and I'm almost positive these reactions and emotions arise from my subconscious and my instincts..and then affect my conscious mind and actions.

I think that maybe the root of this may be that I might be reacting to a type of energy produced by the concepts/thoughts/practices...etc of christianity that causes these strong emotions.

Another thought tied to the first is that I have always been close to and part of the energies of the earth and living things and spirits alike, and that perhaps there is a separation between all of these aspects within christianity...and perhaps I am also subconsciously picking up on that and reacting accordingly.

Those two lines of thought are what have stood out to me the most, but I have yet to narrow it all down and define it.

I have the feeling that I would probably need to sit in a church while I meditate to observe the energetic and emotional changes from a nutural perspective if I truly want to be sure of myself. Or better yet, astral project into a church...which seems an easier and less jarring notion for me.

[Light21]

I stop in occasionally. I have been crazy busy and going to bed early now so I have no longer been on at the same time as you :( Rob is officially done going out to sea now and we visit CO in less then 3 weeks! Okay back to topic. I like your plan to sit in a church astrally first =good idea. Then slowly work yourself physically into church. Going in both times when its bascally empty is a good idea. That way you dont have to worry about judgemental people.

[grue21]

Ever heared the saying - 'The Truth hurts?'

I know allot of people so called athieists who feel as you do about christianity. On probing the reason that they feel this way is not because they think that christianity is a sham or silly. Its because deep down they accept that God is real and that Jesus is His Son. The anger and malevolence is an irrational psycological response to a truth they can neither change or remove. therefore they go all out to justify (to themselves mostly) that God isnt real and Christianity is hypocrisy etc etc.

The core belief of Christianity is this - We have become separated from God, however God, because He loves us and cares for us imensly has made a Way for us to have friendship and felowship with Him once more - Jesus is that Way, all we have to do is just believe in Him and on Him.

Im not into crosses or anything else that stinks of religion, to be honest i hate religion! for me my faith is a love relationship with my heavenly Father. I just try to walk closer with Him each day, read about Him in the Bible and meet up with likeminded people at church. By doing this i recive all of His blessings and good things in my life. I have an amazing friend and Father who cares about me.

I dont do or believe all of this out of fear, but out of Love, because love is at the heart of God.

I hope this give you food for thought,
Paul...

[Sangress]

Thank you paul.

I projected into the church this morning (happy easter) and figured out a lot.

Apparently everyone there has white and gold frequencies of energy all through them. I can handle white though its kind of tiring....but never gold.

Probably explains the aversion and the hatred....etc which could stem out of the frustraition of being unable to get close to people like that, or perhaps its just because I sense that energy or the people themselves as a threat.

Point is, I've narrowed it down to an energetic occurence which I know affects all parts of me directly.

Now all I need to know are what emotions come from that interaction of energy and when and why.

Then I can work on getting around those reactions, or at least weakening them or putting them off until I'm in the right situation to feel them.

[Triner]

Sangress, I'm glad to hear you're getting it sorted out.

If those people's colors are white and gold, what is/are your color(s)?

[Sangress]

My energy reflects the colours, metallic purple and red and satin blue and green.

But most of it is just black and absorbs energy and reflects no colour at all.

My energy just doesn't mix well with frequencies that reflect white and gold...could go so far to say I'm allergic to them. lol. Both those frequencies are like nails down a chalkboard to me and they disorientate me and give me migrains and make me ill...though gold on the more severe side of things because I can't actually metaphysically "touch" it...whereas I can blend white energy with other kinds to dilute it because I can touch it...etc.

I can't believe I didn't figure this out sooner, because I already knew which energies unbalanced me and made me ill....etc, but it seems I got caught up in the religion itself, rather than what was happening beneath it on a metaphysical level.

[Lightspirit]

I was debating whether to put this here, because I thought i would offend people. But I'm not insulting the religion of Christianity or anything related to it, just looking for opinions from people who know more about Christianity than I do.

All my life I've had an aversion to god and anything christian related.

The sight or mention of anything christian related makes my hackles rise every single time, makes my skin crawl, makes me feel so horribly malevolent and irrational, hateful and generally wanting to just laugh in a sneery kind of way.

It really surprises me and nothing else gets that kind of reaction from me. I have no idea of where these emotions come up from, but they are there and they belong to me.

I've tried to research the religion, tried to ask my sister about it, tried to empathize with it and understand and feel something other than these overpowering negative vibes.....but after years of endeavoring against the emotions to find truth it has not changed.

It seems so ridiculous and hypocritical to me that I cannot seem to help but feel this way about Christianity and the beliefs and history involved with it.

I know that this religion has helped people all around the world and shaped our world as we know it. It brings hope to peoples lives and inspires generosity too.

I have no reason not to like Christianity...yet here I am, still feeling utterly hateful of it.

Why and how on earth can I feel this way?

Has anyone come across someone else reacting this way to Christianity?

Can anyone find a reason for this?

I'm at my wits end with trying to understand why I react this way, so hopefully others might be able to help me see a different perspective and help me understand these feelings.

I apologize for offending anyone and have no want for this thread to be come an argument. I have my best intentions in mind.


Thank you Sangress as soon as I read your post one thing came to mind for you. One thing can cause that.

we are living in a world where there is spiritual stuff around us in us and around us., both good and bad.

I rarely say this ever unless i really think it could be true but from what you have said you may have demonic spirits around you. they are real things i have seen them. if you have one of those around you the thought of anything christian wil make you feel ill inside. That is actually how you tell.
do you find you get cranky easily?
Is your life deteriorating rather than improving?

look up demonic oppression signs in google and see if anything speaks to you.
It is REALLY rare i would think this, but for you it is a prevailing thought.

let me know if you think it is and il tel you more.
cheers
lw

[Sangress]

Sangress as soon as I read your post one thing came to mind for you. One thing can cause that.

we are living in a world where there is spiritual stuff around us in us and around us., both good and bad.

I rarely say this ever unless i really think it could be true but from what you have said you may have demonic spirits around you. they are real things i have seen them. if you have one of those around you the thought of anything christian wil make you feel ill inside. That is actually how you tell.
do you find you get cranky easily?
Is your life deteriorating rather than improving?

look up demonic oppression signs in google and see if anything speaks to you.
It is REALLY rare i would think this, but for you it is a prevailing thought.

let me know if you think it is and il tel you more.
chers
lw
No, I doubt I have demonic spirits around me. Spirits tend not to like me at all, so they wont hang about unless they want something from me. If they did hang about I'd sooner tell them to go away than invite them closer. I enjoy my privacy and am quite solitary, spiritually speaking.

But regardless of what I think, I'd like to learn more because many people have said that about me, so it's a point of interest for me nonetheless.

[Lightspirit]

No, I doubt I have demonic spirits around me. Spirits tend not to like me at all, so they wont hang about unless they want something from me. If they did hang about I'd sooner tell them to go away than invite them closer. I enjoy my privacy and am quite solitary, spiritually speaking.

But regardless of what I think, I'd like to learn more because many people have said that about me, so it's a point of interest for me nonetheless.
i didn't drop this in because i wanted to ask you first. Look at this and see if anything speaks to you!

http://fspp.net/warn%20poss.htm


http://hannahscupboard.com/ST-oppression.html

[Sangress]

I can tick off a lot of the boxes in the first article, 30 at least.

Though all of that can be explained for various mundane and spiritual reasons in my life, so I know it is no demon.

I think if there was a demon I would certainly know about it and I'd probably befriend it as I do with everything else.

To be honest I'm having trouble reading the second article with all the quotes....etc. It's scrambling my thoughts a little.

Why is demon possession seen as such a bad thing? Why are demons seen as being bad?

I've practiced possession myself since I was a child, it's just like any other metaphysical or psychic skill, so I'm not sure how it would suddenly become evil or bad when a spirit does it (even if the spirit happens to misbehave.) Most people never remember being possessed unless they are tormented in the process (which in any situation I would think is pretty memorable) so I don't really think it harms the person unless they are actually mistreated in some way...

[Triner]

My energy reflects the colours, metallic purple and red and satin blue and green.

But most of it is just black and absorbs energy and reflects no colour at all.

My energy just doesn't mix well with frequencies that reflect white and gold...could go so far to say I'm allergic to them. lol. Both those frequencies are like nails down a chalkboard to me and they disorientate me and give me migrains and make me ill...though gold on the more severe side of things because I can't actually metaphysically "touch" it...whereas I can blend white energy with other kinds to dilute it because I can touch it...etc.

I can't believe I didn't figure this out sooner, because I already knew which energies unbalanced me and made me ill....etc, but it seems I got caught up in the religion itself, rather than what was happening beneath it on a metaphysical level.

That's an interesting combination of colors. Though I do note that you have all of the primary colors with you in various combinations, they're just separated in a very interesting and different way.

Makes me wonder what affect energy work would have on you. Would you want to try to change it?

[Sangress]

Makes me wonder what affect energy work would have on you. Would you want to try to change it?
I can blend my energy with most others and consume most other energies as well, so in a way I can change it at will and become part of other energies already....but my energy always revertes back to its natural state after I've finished any energy work of my own.

I've had others try some energy work on me, but I just suck up anything they offer rather than having it affect me directly, lol. A few of my friends have tried things, just for fun, and been dissapointed.

[Triner]

I can blend my energy with most others and consume most other energies as well, so in a way I can change it at will and become part of other energies already....but my energy always revertes back to its natural state after I've finished any energy work of my own.

I've had others try some energy work on me, but I just suck up anything they offer rather than having it affect me directly, lol. A few of my friends have tried things, just for fun, and been dissapointed.

It's good that you've recognized all this. Do you know what it is about white and gold that causes the reaction in you? What do those colors represent?

[Triner]

Some of what you've said made me think of a quote from Gandhi..

"I like your Christ, I do not like your Christians. Your Christians are so unlike your Christ"

For you, it almost seems as though it's the people that cause the reaction... just a thought.

[Sangress]

It's good that you've recognized all this. Do you know what it is about white and gold that causes the reaction in you? What do those colors represent?

Well, from what I've learned, energy vibrates and that vibration reflects light, and that light is often a colour. So, the colours pretty much allow a person to define what type of energy they are seeing.

I know that white and gold energy cannot by manipulated/changed directly and both frequencies are really high pitched and very complex compared to most others.

Straight up, I know that the white frequency is composed of every frequancy in existance blended together (including gold.)

But as far as gold is concerned, I know it is in the sun, in the metal gold, and linked directly to the energy of christianity/god/holy spirit.....etc.

I can handle white energy to a certain degree, but I have to separate it into all of its raw componants and types of energy if I want to make use of it at all....which is more effort than the energy is worth.

Gold, cant handle it at all, even the sound of its vibe and the sight of it is jarring to me.

so, yeh....at this point that is all I know.

(as a side note - I've found 3 other people who have the same issue as myself and who have also connected it to gold and white energy long before I have. They know little more than I do.)

[Sangress]

http://www.spiritualforums.com/vb/image.php?u=6131&dateline=1302393817 (http://www.spiritualforums.com/vb/member.php?u=6131) Some of what you've said made me think of a quote from Gandhi..

"I like your Christ, I do not like your Christians. Your Christians are so unlike your Christ"

For you, it almost seems as though it's the people that cause the reaction... just a thought.


It's a nice thought, but I'm pretty sure it goes deeper since I've met spirits and places which give me the same reaction. If it was just people I'd say that I don't like their hypocracy, their personalities, their religion.......etc...when really I just react badly to certain thing and have all the respect in the world for everyone involved.

[Triner]

Well, from what I've learned, energy vibrates and that vibration reflects light, and that light is often a colour. So, the colours pretty much allow a person to define what type of energy they are seeing.

I know that white and gold energy cannot by manipulated/changed directly and both frequencies are really high pitched and very complex compared to most others.

Straight up, I know that the white frequency is composed of every frequancy in existance blended together (including gold.)

But as far as gold is concerned, I know it is in the sun, in the metal gold, and linked directly to the energy of christianity/god/holy spirit.....etc.

I can handle white energy to a certain degree, but I have to separate it into all of its raw componants and types of energy if I want to make use of it at all....which is more effort than the energy is worth.

Gold, cant handle it at all, even the sound of its vibe and the sight of it is jarring to me.

so, yeh....at this point that is all I know.

(as a side note - I've found 3 other people who have the same issue as myself and who have also connected it to gold and white energy long before I have. They know little more than I do.)

It good you know this. Must be a bit of a pain having to stay away from certain people.. Out of curiousity, how did you determine what your colors are?

[Sangress]

Out of curiousity, how did you determine what your colors are?
I and other people looked at my aura first and confirmed what I already saw, and then I looked at myself in astral and studied the phantom limbs I've got down here in the physical...and it all matches and never seems to change regardless of whether i try to change it or not.....so in the end I've accepted it all as my natural colouring.

So its really just observing yourself and having it confirmed by others and gathering evidence in various ways over a long period of time that works.

It good you know this. Must be a bit of a pain having to stay away from certain people..
They tend to avoid me autimatically unless they have no common sense or arent in touch with their intuition, so I dont make much of an effort because I'm lazy. But jewlers and churches are things I tend to avoid...not the other way around.

[New Rage Guru]

It seems religion has distorted the truth to such an extent, that it's no longer 'truth'. Maybe this is why you have such a strong aversion towards it. But should you be hating God as well?

I hate "God"

Well the use of god as a means to describing the indescribable. God is the masculine of the goddess. If you have one without the other you create imbalance. Whoa Hay...Look at our "God Fearing World." Makes sense to me, it's man stuffed!
Peace Yo.

[Triner]

Sangress, thanks for sharing. I found the whole discussion very cool

Personally, if we ever should meet, I look forward to the day.

[Sangress]

Sangress, thanks for sharing. I found the whole discussion very cool

Personally, if we ever should meet, I look forward to the day.
I'm glad the discussion actually did something for someone other than me and yes, I look forward to a time when we meet in this life or the next.

But, this thread isn't over yet. :p

I still have to understand gold energy and figure out why it is connected to christianity at all and why it has all the charicteristics it has and, more importantly, why its so painfull and damaging to me (and some others.)

[Triner]

But, this thread isn't over yet. :p

Dohh, of course :icon_geek: my bad.

I still have to understand gold energy and figure out why it is connected to christianity at all and why it has all the charicteristics it has and, more importantly, why its so painfull and damaging to me (and some others.)

Ah yes, gold light. Hmm, first thing that comes to mind is that it's the color of the 8th Chakra (called the "soul star" chakra amongst other names). It's the energy center of Divine love, the connection with the divine. It's supposed to be about 2 feet about the crown chakra.

So it makes me wonder if yours is perhaps counter-rotating...

[Sangress]

Ah yes, gold light. Hmm, first thing that comes to mind is that it's the color of the 8th Chakra (called the "soul star" chakra amongst other names). It's the energy center of Divine love, the connection with the divine. It's supposed to be about 2 feet about the crown chakra.

So it makes me wonder if yours is perhaps counter-rotating...
My energy system is odd, so I wouldn't be surprised if I don't have one at all since I don't actually have chakras in the litteral sense.

I want to say that my energy system just might be on a completely different frequency to gold, so that when it comes in contact with gold energy it cant blend with my own energy and I can't consume it or change the energy itself either....it'd probably disrupt the rate my energy vibrates at too, which could cause gold to be especially destructive to myself, but not others...so pretty much gold could be the complete opposite of what I'm made of, so I'm not capable of adjusting to its affects like other people do.

But since I don't know where gold comes from, what componants its made from and its characteristics....and probably wont know myself because I cant handle the stuff....its all really blind guesses at this point.

[Triner]

My energy system is odd, so I wouldn't be surprised if I don't have one at all since I don't actually have chakras in the litteral sense.

I want to say that my energy system just might be on a completely different frequency to gold, so that when it comes in contact with gold energy it cant blend with my own energy and I can't consume it or change the energy itself either....it'd probably disrupt the rate my energy vibrates at too, which could cause gold to be especially destructive to myself, but not others...so pretty much gold could be the complete opposite of what I'm made of, so I'm not capable of adjusting to its affects like other people do.

But since I don't know where gold comes from, what componants its made from and its characteristics....and probably wont know myself because I cant handle the stuff....its all really blind guesses at this point.

When you say "what components it's made of" what exactly do you mean. What would be some of the components of some colors you're familiar with?

[Sangress]

When you say "what components it's made of" what exactly do you mean. What would be some of the components of some colors you're familiar with?

Componants are basically the behaviour, affect, flexibility, vibration, density, temperature and origin of a type of energy.

So, for example...

I know that purple energy has a density that is heavier than most colours, low fast and smooth vibration, but the tone of its vibration can be altered to a medium/almost high frequency temporarily (the fast vibration allows it.)
Blue strengthens it, red weakens it and yellow has to be watered down and refined in order to blend with it. Puple has a medium lasting rate, but depending on circumstances it won't dissipate/break appart/loose momentum at all for however long conditions don't change. Purple is usually made up of several colors together all in varying frequencies, and if one colour is removed the componants of the energy shift so the vibration and the colour would be altered and other componants would be altered. Purple isn't a "sensitive" energy, it isn't affected by most energies other than itself and will overcome other frequencies.

To be blunt, I don't know what gold is made up of. I know it has a high, fast and perhaps be extreemly raw with refined componants (as in colours/energies that are not altered at all) due to the strength behind it (or it could just seem overbearing because I cant handle it.) It doesn't seem to dissipate and gold energies seem to be attracted to one another in the same way black energies gather to one another.

So, yeh, in comparison to what i know about purple and other colours, the properties of gold are vague and involve a lot of guessing because I can't pull appart the energy myself and see what its made of.

[The Lost Seafarer]

This has been quite an interesting thread! And I respect and thank you for sharing your thoughts, Sangress :smile:
Most of what you've said, I agree with.
Although I don't feel any positivity towards Christianity, I don't harbor any great negative emotions, nothing that makes me feel physically repulsed.
The hold religion has had over people over the years does bother me. I think it's tragic, really.

But the bottom line for me is that if people want to have faith in their lives, then that is perfectly fine. I have no problem with it, why should I?
Of course, if anyone tries to indoctrinate me, I'll tell them where to go :smile:
To each their own!

I know allot of people so called athieists who feel as you do about christianity. On probing the reason that they feel this way is not because they think that christianity is a sham or silly. Its because deep down they accept that God is real and that Jesus is His Son. The anger and malevolence is an irrational psycological response to a truth they can neither change or remove. therefore they go all out to justify (to themselves mostly) that God isnt real and Christianity is hypocrisy etc etc.

You should never talk on behalf of other people.
Really, it's not a kind nor sound thing to do.
You saying that people who do not believe in God are just living in denial is exactly the same as me saying you too are living in denial. That Christians are clinging on to a faith that does not exist because they are scared, they are scared that without it there life has no purpose nor meaning. That there's not even the slightest possibility that we could just be here... just because! We cannot even begin to comprehend the universe and it's workings.

But really, what does it matter?
We should just be enjoying life for what it is! :smile:

[Triner]

Componants are basically the behaviour, affect, flexibility, vibration, density, temperature and origin of a type of energy.

So, for example...

I know that purple energy has a density that is heavier than most colours, low fast and smooth vibration, but the tone of its vibration can be altered to a medium/almost high frequency temporarily (the fast vibration allows it.)
Blue strengthens it, red weakens it and yellow has to be watered down and refined in order to blend with it. Puple has a medium lasting rate, but depending on circumstances it won't dissipate/break appart/loose momentum at all for however long conditions don't change. Purple is usually made up of several colors together all in varying frequencies, and if one colour is removed the componants of the energy shift so the vibration and the colour would be altered and other componants would be altered. Purple isn't a "sensitive" energy, it isn't affected by most energies other than itself and will overcome other frequencies.

To be blunt, I don't know what gold is made up of. I know it has a high, fast and perhaps be extreemly raw with refined componants (as in colours/energies that are not altered at all) due to the strength behind it (or it could just seem overbearing because I cant handle it.) It doesn't seem to dissipate and gold energies seem to be attracted to one another in the same way black energies gather to one another.

So, yeh, in comparison to what i know about purple and other colours, the properties of gold are vague and involve a lot of guessing because I can't pull appart the energy myself and see what its made of.

Would it help if you had someone with gold in their aura who would let you, for lack of a better phrase, "mess with" their aura to help yourself figure it out? Or have you already tried that?

[New Rage Guru]

We cannot even begin to comprehend the universe and it's workings.

But really, what does it matter?
We should just be enjoying life for what it is! :smile:[/QUOTE]

Cheers to that :icon_lol:

[SunMist]

Guess I'll add my two cents. Sangress I've known a couple of people who feel as you do. Who have an aversive reaction to Christianity, churches, any trappings of Christianity. It seems to go beyond being upset about actual crimes committed in the name of the religion to something deeper. I will say that I believe two of those people were psyvamps - one conscious the other not. I know that would interest you as you identify that way also. I think that God as nature and as seen in the natural world is more accessible to all. But the way Christianity represents God disallows many who might still want a relationship and so on a basic level they may just feel shut out. And that would tend to **** one off I'd think!

It might be worth exploring your aversion though - like go to an empty church with nobody around to bug you or observe you and just see - what happens when you go in and just sit down. I read this thread a while ago so you might've already covered it but if not, really dig in and see where the feelings come from - there's got to be a reason. If there were no reason, it's just an empty building with some pretty windows.

ETA: just reading backwards in the thread now, what's your take on the other colors of light like red, blue, orange, green, yellow? And is yellow different from gold? what about silver light?

[Sangress]

Would it help if you had someone with gold in their aura who would let you, for lack of a better phrase, "mess with" their aura to help yourself figure it out? Or have you already tried that?

Well, if someone has a gold aura that means they have gold energy, which I can't touch without getting ill and experiencing a lot of pain...so even if I could do it, I wouldn't try it.

Thank you for the thought though.

I will say that I believe two of those people were psyvamps - one conscious the other not.

The other three I found were psyvamps as well. Seems to be a bit more than a coincidence.

I'll answer at length later on when I have some more time.

[Triner]

Well, if someone has a gold aura that means they have gold energy, which I can't touch without getting ill and experiencing a lot of pain...so even if I could do it, I wouldn't try it.


Cool.. I wish I could offer the info you're looking for. But I dunno 1/100th of what you know about the colors.:binkybaby: Do you offer lessons? :director2: I'd love to be able to view colors as you do.

I've yet to find a person with whom I can't get along. So if I happen upon someone in my journey who knows about gold light, I'll let you know what I find out.

[Sangress]

Cool.. I wish I could offer the info you're looking for. But I dunno 1/100th of what you know about the colors.:binkybaby: Do you offer lessons? :director2: I'd love to be able to view colors as you do.

I've yet to find a person with whom I can't get along. So if I happen upon someone in my journey who knows about gold light, I'll let you know what I find out.
I don't "offer" lessons, so to speak, mostly because of the responsibility and effort and general assumption that I know enough of what I'm talking about (which I don't have half the time) which people seem to assume are involved in lessons.

But I'm always willing to help or teach anyone who want's to know or learn something from me in a way that isn't a formal studant/teacher agreement, more like sharing and learning from one another instead.

If you ever catch word about gold light/energy then I'd appreciate word of it, thanks.

I'm planning to make a page of definitions of what I know about energy (and the frequencies and colours...etc) for another thread, so I may as well link it here when I get to doing it. But it won't be saying how I've learned my stuff because that would take a long time to write out (and I'm lazy and mysterious like that. ;p)...so thats better left for a Private Message or Chat.

[SunMist]

The other three I found were psyvamps as well. Seems to be a bit more than a coincidence.

Interesting indeed! What do you think is going on there? Is it all about the gold/white energy being unpleasant or maybe also a deep sense of rejection of or by this version of God? I hope I don't offend anyone with that, but I do believe each religion represents a version of God, a way of thinking about things, but that the true reality is beyond representation. And I wouldn't think that any being should be denied (or deny themselves) that connection if they want it.

[Sangress]

Interesting indeed! What do you think is going on there? Is it all about the gold/white energy being unpleasant or maybe also a deep sense of rejection of or by this version of God? I hope I don't offend anyone with that, but I do believe each religion represents a version of God, a way of thinking about things, but that the true reality is beyond representation. And I wouldn't think that any being should be denied (or deny themselves) that connection if they want it.
Hmm, well, from a personal veiwpoint of who/what I am, spiritually speaking, I have a theory about that which I'll write here.

I know that I don't have chakras to create energy for me, but instead have channels for energy to flow through and metaphysical "organs" that pull in energy from outside, break it down into its various raw componants, and then transmute/change it into something I can take strength and nourishment from.

Essentially I just consume energy the same way people consume food and also the way people breathe in air.

Now, if we were to look at gold energy as the collective consciousness of every person connected to a christian related religion in this state of existance....then we can safely say that this energy is immense and part of every being that is connected to it and also that this energy has been growing for a long time (because prayer...etc would add to it) and the core of it remains relatively unchanged because it is part of a religion which, fundamentally, has remined unchanged for generations.

Perhaps this energy became autonomious and gained the consciousness of everyone connected to it...so it would be able to respond to peoples wishes even though it is not essentially a spirit itself...sort of like a humongious metaphysical computer program subconsciously created by a mass of people to respond to their needs and wants...to comfort them and help them...etc.


Now, since when I interact with energy I inevitably soak up or pull some of it into myself, then would it be so far fetched to say that people and spirits like myself cannot consume and alter gold energy into a form that is compatible to their needs and their very essence?

And if it cannot by "digested" or consumed...is it fair to say that this energy could pass through my own (and others) systems unchanged and effectively damage me/them in the same way poison would a physical body?

And also, since many people are very connected to the metaphysical world, would it be even more far fetched to say that this metaphysical damage could manifest its physically (thereby causing actually physical injury or pain or an instinctual emotional/flight or fight reaction?)

This is probably a bad example but.....If someone drank alcohole and the liver (or whatever) didn't at least hold some of the alcohole and change it before it entered the blood stream...they would be poisoned instantly and remain that way for a long time until somehow it is flushed out of their system...assuming they survived long enough in the first place to have that kind of help offered to them.

I've been contemplating that this might be the same scenario, only metaphysical.

Does this make any sense to anyone? Does it sound viable?

[unus supra]

I think it does make sense. whether i agree or not, truth is i just dont know,
it certainly sounds reasonable. Its definitely not beyond the scope of possibility.

[Triner]

Hmm, well, from a personal veiwpoint of who/what I am, spiritually speaking, I have a theory about that which I'll write here.

I know that I don't have chakras to create energy for me, but instead have channels for energy to flow through and metaphysical "organs" that pull in energy from outside, break it down into its various raw componants, and then transmute/change it into something I can take strength and nourishment from.

Essentially I just consume energy the same way people consume food and also the way people breathe in air.


Chakras are just one way of describing and visualizing the flow of energy that is in all humans. They don't create energy. Nor do the consume it. In Celticism, there are only three "Cauldrons", the belly, the heart, and the head. They describe the energy flowing in the human energy field.

I've never heard of organs that 'consume' energy though.


Now, if we were to look at gold energy as the collective consciousness of every person connected to a christian related religion in this state of existance....then we can safely say that this energy is immense and part of every being that is connected to it and also that this energy has been growing for a long time (because prayer...etc would add to it) and the core of it remains relatively unchanged because it is part of a religion which, fundamentally, has remined unchanged for generations.

Perhaps this energy became autonomious and gained the consciousness of everyone connected to it...so it would be able to respond to peoples wishes even though it is not essentially a spirit itself...sort of like a humongious metaphysical computer program subconsciously created by a mass of people to respond to their needs and wants...to comfort them and help them...etc.

Now, since when I interact with energy I inevitably soak up or pull some of it into myself, then would it be so far fetched to say that people and spirits like myself cannot consume and alter gold energy into a form that is compatible to their needs and their very essence?

And if it cannot by "digested" or consumed...is it fair to say that this energy could pass through my own (and others) systems unchanged and effectively damage me/them in the same way poison would a physical body?

And also, since many people are very connected to the metaphysical world, would it be even more far fetched to say that this metaphysical damage could manifest its physically (thereby causing actually physical injury or pain or an instinctual emotional/flight or fight reaction?)

This is probably a bad example but.....If someone drank alcohole and the liver (or whatever) didn't at least hold some of the alcohole and change it before it entered the blood stream...they would be poisoned instantly and remain that way for a long time until somehow it is flushed out of their system...assuming they survived long enough in the first place to have that kind of help offered to them.

I've been contemplating that this might be the same scenario, only metaphysical.

Does this make any sense to anyone? Does it sound viable?

I'm not sure. Here's a another thought. This is just a theory, so I'm not saying this is how it is...

The whole 'consuming' of energy doesn't sound right. That sounds to much like a succubus or a dementor. I think that it's changing the vibration of the energy that flows through you to something that 'fits' you. Sometimes the changing of the energy (white) takes the form to you of breaking it down. Many types of energy you can change or "transmute" into that which fits your energy. By changing it, it then fits better into your energy and can merge with it.

Gold energy, however, is just something that you can't affect. And worse than that, it corrupts your energy and makes you feel bad.

So it's sort of what you were saying...

[Sangress]

The whole 'consuming' of energy doesn't sound right. That sounds to much like a succubus or a dementor. I think that it's changing the vibration of the energy that flows through you to something that 'fits' you.
I know consuming energy sounds wrong, but I've personally found no other way to describe it adequately. If I was simply changing the energy available as it flows through me, then people wouldn't pass out/fall asleep/feel ill when I "consume" a large amount of their energy fast enough for them to be unable to replace what is lost quickly enough.

Moreso, if I did not actively "consume" energy then I get ill and pass out myself, so even if there is energy naturally flowing through me I've found that that alone isn't nearly enough to keep me upright when I haven't got any reserves of energy that has been stored for use while I'm not actively taking/consuming anything.

Also, if I were using the energy as it is by simply changing it, then all of the energy would be used...whereas with me the parts I don't "need" get discarded and the parts I do get used...it's ridiculiously similar to the normal physical digestive process when I think about it.

I've been likened to a succubus by a lot of people actually, but most of them had no idea what they were talking about...its really just like the demon thing.

If its unusual and people don't think it is "meant" to be that way, then it's autimatically seen as inhuman or something equally bizzar.

But yes, you've got the general gist of what I was on about.

[New Rage Guru]

Wow...it worked with me Sangress; you have sucked the energy out of me!!! Your post is a fake post an excuse for everyone to focus on your intent. Your questions asked at the beginning reflect nothing of its innocence in the post that follows reflecting a being crying out for love.
Well Sangress;
I Love You.

[Sangress]

Wow...it worked with me Sangress; you have sucked the energy out of me!!! Your post is a fake post an excuse for everyone to focus on your intent. Your questions asked at the beginning reflect nothing of its innocence in the post that follows reflecting a being crying out for love.
Well Sangress;
I Love You.
I would highly enjoy it if you took your sarcastic judgemental attitude and assumptions elsewhere and actually try to help another person with an open heart and without a shred of selfish or bitter intent for at least half a moment.

People like you are what make people like me want to shake your hand and congratulate you for voicing your illogical opinion at the wrong time and in the wrong place with full knowledge of the fact that your not contributing to the subject at all.

Have a nice day and I love you also with the same alternate motive you pose to myself.

Sorry to everyone else for that interruption.

[SunMist]

A few thoughts popping up for me here not all of which are connected...

The gold light theory - well it's possible, I mean logically it makes sense and only you know or a qualified energy handling expert would know what's happening in your system. Still, my gut tells me that the gold light is not poison to you but it is transformative, but this may not be something you want at this time so you feel unwell as it begins to change whatever it might change.

Another thought I had goes back to the spleen chakra thread. I looked up the role the spleen plays in Traditional Chinese Medicine and it play a valuable role in pulling the chi out what a person eats and drinks and distributing that throughout the energy channels. You might find a lot of value in seeing a skilled TCM person to analyze how your body's subtle channels are operating and perhaps try acupuncture.

[Sangress]

A few thoughts popping up for me here not all of which are connected...

The gold light theory - well it's possible, I mean logically it makes sense and only you know or a qualified energy handling expert would know what's happening in your system. Still, my gut tells me that the gold light is not poison to you but it is transformative, but this may not be something you want at this time so you feel unwell as it begins to change whatever it might change.

That could well be a possibility as well. I might not need that kind of energy at this point in time.

This is all theoretical at the moment until I can figure out a way to somehow observe what happens and keep a level head if I interact with the stuff. I need a spiritual biochemical suit. lol.

Another thought I had goes back to the spleen chakra thread. I looked up the role the spleen plays in Traditional Chinese Medicine and it play a valuable role in pulling the chi out what a person eats and drinks and distributing that throughout the energy channels. You might find a lot of value in seeing a skilled TCM person to analyze how your body's subtle channels are operating and perhaps try acupuncture.

I would certainly do that if I had the money and the resources where I live.

Last time I had anyone do anything relating to chi was about 4 years ago, he was trying to do the pendulum thing and ended up asking me if I'd almost died recently...which I hadn't and then he gave me my money back and said that I'd need something more than what he can offer..but what "more" could be he didn't know.

Such a vague man...

[New Rage Guru]

I would highly enjoy it if you took your sarcastic judgemental attitude and assumptions elsewhere and actually try to help another person with an open heart and without a shred of selfish or bitter intent for at least half a moment.

People like you are what make people like me want to shake your hand and congratulate you for voicing your illogical opinion at the wrong time and in the wrong place with full knowledge of the fact that your not contributing to the subject at all.

Have a nice day and I love you also with the same alternate motive you pose to myself.

Sorry to everyone else for that interruption.

Wow..Dude, touched a button...Sorry to all who are part of the Sangress show. I'm pretty light of heart and my posts should be taken with a half smile but the truth is man, I thought this was a discussion dealing with aversion to god/Christianity. Maybe I should start a new post called "Those with an aversion to god/Christianity/new age goop." I have a strong belief in the equality of every being on the planet and that if we are cut open we look like everyone else. As spirit...we are one.
Peace Yo.
Oh… And man god’s suck! My aversion to Christianity.

[Sangress]

Wow..Dude, touched a button...Sorry to all who are part of the Sangress show. I'm pretty light of heart and my posts should be taken with a half smile but the truth is man, I thought this was a discussion dealing with aversion to god/Christianity. Maybe I should start a new post called "Those with an aversion to aversion to god/Christianity/new age goop." I have a strong belief in the equality of every being on the planet and that if we are cut open we look like everyone else. As spirit...we are one.
Oh… And man god’s suck! My aversion to Christianity.
Why so surprised? Of course you 'hit a button,' you personally attacked me (rather than offering an opinion about an aversion to christianity) and I responded to it.

If we both have a strong belief in equality then I wonder why you decided to openly insult me.

If you have nothing nice or constructive or even honest or logical to say, then don't bother saying it at all.

Peace Yo.
If thats an apology then its accepted, if it's not directed at me then you must be confused and if thats your version of saying goodbye then I'd be happy to show you the door.

[Triner]

I know consuming energy sounds wrong, but I've personally found no other way to describe it adequately. ...
But yes, you've got the general gist of what I was on about.

Gotcha. I know what you mean. I don't think it's a succubus-type thing.

[Summerlander]

Succubus? What the hell are you talking about? Demons don't exist and there is nothing out there draining your energy. Nothing.

[Triner]

Succubus? What the hell are you talking about? Demons don't exist and there is nothing out there draining your energy. Nothing.
It was a metaphor. Sangress understood and that's who I was talking to.

[Triner]

...
Moreso, if I did not actively "consume" energy then I get ill and pass out myself, so even if there is energy naturally flowing through me I've found that that alone isn't nearly enough to keep me upright when I haven't got any reserves of energy that has been stored for use while I'm not actively taking/consuming anything.

Also, if I were using the energy as it is by simply changing it, then all of the energy would be used...whereas with me the parts I don't "need" get discarded and the parts I do get used...it's ridiculiously similar to the normal physical digestive process when I think about it.
...

This brought up sometihng in my mind last night... I wonder if there is someone corded to you who is pulling your energy away. Someone who has hurt you, or is otherwise attached to you... parent, sibling, friend, relative, whatever. If someone is drawing your energy away, then you'll constantly need to replenish it.

[Sangress]

This brought up sometihng in my mind last night... I wonder if there is someone corded to you who is pulling your energy away. Someone who has hurt you, or is otherwise attached to you... parent, sibling, friend, relative, whatever. If someone is drawing your energy away, then you'll constantly need to replenish it
Already checked that.

My energy systems been working this way since loong before this life, before I even got a body actually.

I just consider it an inability to create enough energy coupled with a quick energetic metabolism and a bunch of adaptions that have either come from, or with those charicteristics. *Shrugs*

It probably seems negative, but it has it's perks if I'm not being lazy or neglectful of myself.



I wonder what the root of christianity is and how it came to be. Are there any rumours as to who its founder was or where (on earth) it originated?

[aser's homie]

Winners take risks (like mamals). We are mamals. Religion is made up of mamals :smile:

God to me is beautiful, not limited to the likes of a well fed pilgrim's thoughts or what that mamal thinks taeboo is these days as compared as half a century ago.

Imagine if Religion was all that clean cut, that would take bigger brains than these mamals have. Not mortals, mamals.

It's like this, either you feed the mamal at the zoo or not. like going to church or not? I think.. Maybe you'll perfect this theory with age... I notice.

Yea they're old and powerful in this world, but you didn't see God approve of anything, much rather you and I know it's God being put words in his divine mouth.


God is just resting praying for rain. I pray for rain. Just kiddin.

[Triner]

Already checked that.

My energy systems been working this way since loong before this life, before I even got a body actually.


Ah OK :smile: You're way ahead of me.


I just consider it an inability to create enough energy coupled with a quick energetic metabolism and a bunch of adaptions that have either come from, or with those charicteristics. *Shrugs*

It probably seems negative, but it has it's perks if I'm not being lazy or neglectful of myself.

Not negative, just different.


I wonder what the root of christianity is and how it came to be. Are there any rumours as to who its founder was or where (on earth) it originated?

Well, of course, there's the obvious answer of Christ. From him sprouted numerous groups and sects if "Christians".

But, from what I gather, it seems that it's the more Bible-based structured religion that you'd be interested in. From what I understand, the bible was assembled over the course of around 100 years by a group of church elders. I'm sure you could Google the history of it. Is that the sort of "origination" you were talking about?

[Sangress]

Apparently christianity began in jerusalem along with jesus christ....etc.

I was asking those questions previously because I keep waiting for an older more ancient religion to be connected to it, but theres no evidence of that anywhere.

It just looks like christianity sprang up out of nowhere and yelled "surprise!" when jesus was born....etc.

You'd think it would have had deeper roots than a single man...O_o

Logically speaking there "should" be more to it than that.

[New Rage Guru]

If thats an apology then its accepted, if it's not directed at me then you must be confused and if thats your version of saying goodbye then I'd be happy to show you the door.

What bugged me about your original post is that you seem to be a bit thick. You ask what could possibly be wrong with a nice religion like Christianity when if anyone looked briefly at Christianity because they had an aversion to it would find that basically Christianity is flawed. It uses ancient believes in man gods, virgin births and rising from the dead deities with these silly little beliefs driving marauding armies throughout the world to slaughter millions…all in the name of Christianity.
Most (No) catholic gold is on the walls at the churches…it’s hidden in vaults and used to trade on the stock exchange. Most crucifixes are dainty and if gold coating is setting you off... you in deep do-do man.
Chakras are connected with ancient mythology and used in things like acupuncture and reflexology, both of which have worked wonders on me pushing my belief into this area further.
If you think that mayhap your chakra’s a different; good for you. But an aversion to white/light/divinity is fear talk aligning with a negative affirmation in my books for something that might just not exist drawing to you any miserable amounts of crud!
Also I think you are not thick; but someone quit intelligent.
I didn’t think I needed to apologise!

[ZeroPointField]

What bugged me about your original post is that you seem to be a bit thick. You ask what could possibly be wrong with a nice religion like Christianity when if anyone looked briefly at Christianity because they had an aversion to it would find that basically Christianity is flawed. It uses ancient believes in man gods, virgin births and rising from the dead deities with these silly little beliefs driving marauding armies throughout the world to slaughter millions…all in the name of Christianity.
Most (No) catholic gold is on the walls at the churches…it’s hidden in vaults and used to trade on the stock exchange. Most crucifixes are dainty and if gold coating is setting you off... you in deep do-do man.
Chakras are connected with ancient mythology and used in things like acupuncture and reflexology, both of which have worked wonders on me pushing my belief into this area further.
If you think that mayhap your chakra’s a different; good for you. But an aversion to white/light/divinity is fear talk aligning with a negative affirmation in my books for something that might just not exist drawing to you any miserable amounts of crud!
Also I think you are not thick; but someone quit intelligent.
I didn’t think I needed to apologise!

New Age Guru, I ignored your first strange and seemingly rude post, but I'm gonna have to jump in here.

First, your messages don't make a lot of sense. I can somewhat grasp(I think) some of the points you're trying to make, but could you put a little more time and effort into the grammatical aspects of your posts? Use some proper punctuation, spelling, paragraphs, etc. It's difficult to even tell what you're trying to say half the time.

Sangress is one of the most intelligent, open-minded, and well-spoken members on this board. Her original post was not "thick" in the slightest. It was an open, honest, intelligent question she posed in order to understand something about herself...something which a lot of people would not be mature enough to do, perceptive enough to even be aware of, or open enough to want to understand.

I'm not even going to get further into the first part of your post about your opinions of Christianity itself. I doubt I would understand your response.

Catholic gold and the stock exchange? Crucifixes are "dainty"? Huh??

Unless you're working with someone who has a very eclectic, non-traditional background and some extensive research into energetic anatomy, chakras have little to no connection with either acupuncture or reflexology.

As for the rest... well... I think I'm just speechless. What in the world are you talking about?

[Triner]

Apparently christianity began in jerusalem along with jesus christ....etc.

I was asking those questions previously because I keep waiting for an older more ancient religion to be connected to it, but theres no evidence of that anywhere.

It just looks like christianity sprang up out of nowhere and yelled "surprise!" when jesus was born....etc.

You'd think it would have had deeper roots than a single man...O_o

Logically speaking there "should" be more to it than that.

Ah, I see where you're going. Yes, I think there's a lot from which Christianity is derived. There's the obvious connection to Judaism, which is very old. Personally, I think Jesus travelled East to study with people there too. And there's some connection to Egyptian religion as well.

[Summerlander]

What bugged me about your original post is that you seem to be a bit thick. You ask what could possibly be wrong with a nice religion like Christianity when if anyone looked briefly at Christianity because they had an aversion to it would find that basically Christianity is flawed. It uses ancient believes in man gods, virgin births and rising from the dead deities with these silly little beliefs driving marauding armies throughout the world to slaughter millions…all in the name of Christianity.
Most (No) catholic gold is on the walls at the churches…it’s hidden in vaults and used to trade on the stock exchange. Most crucifixes are dainty and if gold coating is setting you off... you in deep do-do man.
Chakras are connected with ancient mythology and used in things like acupuncture and reflexology, both of which have worked wonders on me pushing my belief into this area further.
If you think that mayhap your chakra’s a different; good for you. But an aversion to white/light/divinity is fear talk aligning with a negative affirmation in my books for something that might just not exist drawing to you any miserable amounts of crud!
Also I think you are not thick; but someone quit intelligent.
I didn’t think I needed to apologise!

:D

I like you. You speak a lot of sense and I don't find you rude at all.:hug3:

[Sangress]

What bugged me about your original post is that you seem to be a bit thick. You ask what could possibly be wrong with a nice religion like Christianity when if anyone looked briefly at Christianity because they had an aversion to it would find that basically Christianity is flawed. It uses ancient believes in man gods, virgin births and rising from the dead deities with these silly little beliefs driving marauding armies throughout the world to slaughter millions…all in the name of Christianity.
Most (No) catholic gold is on the walls at the churches…it’s hidden in vaults and used to trade on the stock exchange. Most crucifixes are dainty and if gold coating is setting you off... you in deep do-do man.
Chakras are connected with ancient mythology and used in things like acupuncture and reflexology, both of which have worked wonders on me pushing my belief into this area further.
If you think that mayhap your chakra’s a different; good for you. But an aversion to white/light/divinity is fear talk aligning with a negative affirmation in my books for something that might just not exist drawing to you any miserable amounts of crud!
Also I think you are not thick; but someone quit intelligent.
I didn’t think I needed to apologise!

Ok, so your allowed to make false judgements of another persons posts because you think the answer to the question posed is obvious or simply because the way a person has worded their concernes is inadequate for your own standards, then as a response you pose a personal attack on that person, then take no responsibilty for your own behaviour after causing offence and THEN you try to rectify it all by being a hypacrite and claiming that you don't think someone is thick even though they "seem" thick?

You could have easily said 'I don't agree or believe in anything you say about yourself, so I think the reason for your aversion is not spiritual at all but mundane and to do with the fact that christianity is flawed and has nothing to do with chakras or energy at all' and I would have accepted your opinion without a fuss.

But when you bring sarcasm and insults into the picture I don't feel like being walked upon.

I don't think I'll bother even replying to you again because any kind of exchange is obviously pointless when you seem to be set on insulting me further and writing in circles until your main point is completely lost in the judgemental comments slipped in between it.


On another note, near the end of this year I will be researching christianity in school, so hopefully then I will be able to look back further than jesus to the religions cultural roots and perhaps previous religions that could have contributed to it (judaism/egyptian)....etc.

I certainly look forward to it because I will be able to compare the various energies of connected religions and hopefully ascertain whether my reaction goes beyond christianity itself.

[KandG]

There are so many possibilities for aversion to Christianity that it is completely mind boggling. Without knowing you it's hard to say, though you described the situation quite well. You are not alone, and many people feel the same way.

Christianity has been absolutely hijacked, first by the Romans, then by the Catholics, and most recently by the religious right.

The fact is that no one, except possibly Mary Magdalene ever really understood Jesus. The Disciples were often perplexed by his sayings, and his actions. They recorded his sayings but most of it went right over their heads. Unfortunately all we have is what they recorded of him. From that and the Gnostic Gospels, and the history of Christianity we can easily see that no church practices correctly. Defining what is correct is a lot harder.

One thing is for sure, Jesus didn't like the cross either. It hurt, and he asked if it were possible to avoid it. Someone once told me that wearing a cross is a bit like wearing an electric chair, or a hangman's noose, and IMO even though I am a Christian (not to be confused with those other guys... Catholics, and Republicans LOL) I can't understand why we adopted that thing as his symbol.

The Cathars (Christian group in the 1400's) didn't like the cross, and said their persecutors the Catholics were really anti-Christ, and used the cross and Crusifix to gloat over their victory over Jesus. The Cathars were all burned alive by the Catholics for their beliefs, and though many were tortured none of them recanted. Even today many churches do not have crosses, and feel they are not the proper symbol. Many prefer the dove as the correct symbol.

My view of Jesus' message is that he was a populist, interested in helping the poor and downtrodden. Further he was an peaceful anarchist, who sought to undermine the religious and governmental system. Most of his words towards the religious establishment were full of contempt. He was also a teacher of spiritual mysteries, a practitioner of miracles which would be more typical of a Magickian, than a preacher.

It is so unfair that the Jesus who fought the pharisees, threw the money changers out of the temple, and pointed out the errors of the religious order of the day, now has a huge following of modern day pharisees who have turned the work of this revolutionary into an institution much like the one he disliked.

That part of Christianity sickens me too... and I am greatly disappointed, because every time someone rises up to point out the real Jesus, and try to practice what he preached, some established religion or government crushes them utterly.

[Solace733]

Sangress, I just wanted to say that i respect the fact that you are brave enough to put yourself completely out there even in the midst of ridicule and do so in an articulate and calm manner. People could learn from the way you handle situations. :wink:

[Sangress]

KandG, I haven't heard of jesus..etc described in the way you portreyed him. Thank you for sharing your perspective on things. The information about the cross is particularly interesting to me. Do you know any historical documents that could shed more light on what you have said about the cross?

Solace733, thank you, I've never had anyone commend me on that.

Dealing with ridicule and putting oneself out there over the internet seems easy to do (for me at least.) I bet everyone could do it if they really felt they needed or wanted to.

But, mirroring that kind of "calm and articulate manner" in true life is certainly more difficult and something I do kind of do feel a little bit proud of.

Not that I don't clearly have a breaking point where I can and probably will loose my head, but it just takes far too much effort to get me that frustraited....so people tend to give up waay before that. :P

[New Rage Guru]

Well, from what I've learned, energy vibrates and that vibration reflects light, and that light is often a colour. So, the colours pretty much allow a person to define what type of energy they are seeing.

I know that white and gold energy cannot by manipulated/changed directly and both frequencies are really high pitched and very complex compared to most others.

Straight up, I know that the white frequency is composed of every frequancy in existance blended together (including gold.)

But as far as gold is concerned, I know it is in the sun, in the metal gold, and linked directly to the energy of christianity/god/holy spirit.....etc.

I can handle white energy to a certain degree, but I have to separate it into all of its raw componants and types of energy if I want to make use of it at all....which is more effort than the energy is worth.

Gold, cant handle it at all, even the sound of its vibe and the sight of it is jarring to me.

so, yeh....at this point that is all I know.

(as a side note - I've found 3 other people who have the same issue as myself and who have also connected it to gold and white energy long before I have. They know little more than I do.)

How is someone supposed to answer a question like “Has anyone come across someone else reacting this way to Christianity/ Aversion to god. Can anyone find a reason for this? I'm at my wits end with trying to understand why I react this way, so hopefully others might be able to help me see a different perspective and help me understand these feelings. “

When they are then confronted by this stuff… No one I know has ever had this stuff happen and how could one guess where you would be going with this???

I have read some of your past post from different threads and I’m actually intrigued by you more than irritated. I think it would be great to have a post that’s called “Let’s dissect Sangress.” You up for it.

[New Rage Guru]

New Age Guru, What in the world are you talking about?


ZeroPointField :New Age Guru, I ignored your first strange and seemingly rude post, but I'm gonna have to jump in here.
NRG: Jump in ZPF

ZPF: First, your messages don't make a lot of sense. I can somewhat grasp(I think) some of the points you're trying to make,

NRG: Doubt it. I’m talking normal earth stuff from as scientific an approach as you can have dealing with this stuff.
ZPF: but could you put a little more time and effort into the grammatical aspects of your posts? Use some proper punctuation, spelling, paragraphs, etc. It's difficult to even tell what you're trying to say half the time.
NRG: What are you a flippin’ teacher! You don’t like what I write anyway!

ZPF: Sangress is one of the most intelligent, open-minded, and well-spoken members on this board. Her original post was not "thick" in the slightest. It was an open, honest, intelligent question she posed in order to understand something about herself...something which a lot of people would not be mature enough to do, perceptive enough to even be aware of, or open enough to want to understand.
NRG: Yeah well I have posted to Sangress regarding my thoughts to “her” post’s. I intentional rounded out my remark about her being thick with a comment dealing with the fact that she seemed quit intelligent…if not a bit weird.

ZPF: I'm not even going to get further into the first part of your post about your opinions of Christianity itself. I doubt I would understand your response.
NRG: Doubt you would care!

ZPF: Catholic gold and the stock exchange? Crucifixes are "dainty"? Huh??

NRG: (Sorry Sangress but your friend needs some explanations) So Sangress say’s: “My energy just doesn't mix well with frequencies that reflect white and gold...could go so far to say I'm allergic to them. lol. Both those frequencies are like nails down a chalkboard to me and they disorientate me and give me migrains and make me ill...though gold on the more severe side of things because I can't actually metaphysically "touch" it...whereas I can blend white energy with other kinds to dilute it because I can touch it...etc.”
I foolishly thought she was talking about “Gold” the metal. I now understand that this convo’ is way over my head and beyond my belief capabilities. I reasoned that gold from Christians necklaces and from (non-existant) gold stuff in the church was freaking her out.

ZPF: Unless you're working with someone who has a very eclectic, non-traditional background and some extensive research into energetic anatomy, chakras have little to no connection with either acupuncture or reflexology.
NRG: http://www.americanacupuncture.com/energy_movement.htm quote: We also get energy from the sun, breathing oxygen, vibrations from the ears, sight, and the nose. Our chakras and acupuncture points serve as antennas.
http://www.universalreflex.com/article.php/20050718170440517
The seven major chakras located in the body each work with a specific endocrine gland. Treating the chakras is extremely important when treating any hormonal imbalances or endocrine gland problems.

A Chakra is a spinning vortex of activity crated by the presence of consciousness within the physical body. These vortices exist within what is called the subtle anatomy of the body – a hidden field of energy that carries your emotions, habits and history of all that has happened to you.

As the feet are a mirror image of the whole body, combining Reflexology and chakras allows for easy balancing of the chakras. This is an ideal way of adding an extra level of harmony and healing when working with your Reflexology clients.
As for me I learnt about them in my Yoga Practice and that there are 7 energy centers called "Chakras" and they parallel the spine. Each chakra has certain qualities, colours and associations. And there are yoga postures that help us get this energy in balance.

ZPF: As for the rest... well... I think I'm just speechless. What in the world are you talking about?
NRG: (Sorry Sangress…more of your quotes from this post) And this makes sense to you… Now I see the rift!‼
Sangress quotes I don’t understand.
My energy system is odd, so I wouldn't be surprised if I don't have one at all since I don't actually have chakras in the litteral sense.

My energy reflects the colours, metallic purple and red and satin blue and green.
But most of it is just black and absorbs energy and reflects no colour at all.

My energy just doesn't mix well with frequencies that reflect white and gold...could go so far to say I'm allergic to them. Both those frequencies are like nails down a chalkboard to me and they disorientate me and give me migrains and make me ill...though gold on the more severe side of things because I can't actually metaphysically "touch" it...whereas I can blend white energy with other kinds to dilute it because I can touch it...etc.

I want to say that my energy system just might be on a completely different frequency to gold, so that when it comes in contact with gold energy it cant blend with my own energy and I can't consume it or change the energy itself either....it'd probably disrupt the rate my energy vibrates at too, which could cause gold to be especially destructive to myself, but not others...so pretty much gold could be the complete opposite of what I'm made of, so I'm not capable of adjusting to its affects like other people do.

I've been likened to a succubus by a lot of people actually, but most of them had no idea what they were talking about...its really just like the demon thing.

Good on you for sticking up for your mate. Takes all kinds mate…even me. Are most people on this chat forum hyper sensitive to criticism?

[New Rage Guru]

:D

I like you. You speak a lot of sense and I don't find you rude at all.:hug3:

Thaks summerlander...I always attract evil clowns.

[Miss Hepburn]

KandG, I haven't heard of jesus..etc described in the way you portrayed him.

Solace733, thank you, I've never had anyone commend me on that.


Yes, thank you KandG, excellent post and Solace.
:hug: Miss Hepburn

[KandG]

I base my beliefs mostly on an objective reading of the Gospel, but I also have read the history of the churches and the Gnostic texts. In general I feel that there were cover-ups about the true nature of Jesus Christ, not so much by direct lie but by omission, and by a gentle twisting of emphasis on some things and off of others.
Jesus was born poor or lower middle, though he did have a great family tree. Jesus deliberately sought out the poor, befriended women, healed the sick, raised the dead and taught his disciples and 120 other people to do the same. He also turned water into wine, multiplied food.
He welcomed poor people, women and children, and he taught them with great patience but as one of my pastor friends recently pointed out, “every time he addresses the Pharasees in the bible Jesus says go, basically go away and learn, I won’t teach you. He always gave them an earful so to speak. A list of things they were doing wrong, but his attitude was that they had all the books and they should know better than to be such jerks. He railed against them for foreclosing on widow’s houses, not practicing what they preach and lording it over other people. He repeatedly called them hypocrites.
I especially like this verse from Matt 23
13 “Woe to you, teachers of the law and Pharisees, you hypocrites! You shut the door of the kingdom of heaven in people’s faces. You yourselves do not enter, nor will you let those enter who are trying to. [14] [b]
15 “Woe to you, teachers of the law and Pharisees, you hypocrites! You travel over land and sea to win a single convert, and when you have succeeded, you make them twice as much a child of hell as you are.
Jesus used the powers of heaven, and perhaps some Magick to do what he did, and he taught that anyone could do it, yet… well results are at best mixed within the modern church. I’ve seen more miracles than most people, but learning to do it is very hard, and I have gathered that some bit of knowledge may be missing. I’ve looked for that knowledge long and hard. As nearly as I can figure one of the secrets is believing it will happen… without question, and Jesus walked on water, the way most people walk across a floor, because he was convinced he could. He said that’s all there was to it.

Here are some references.
Christians who didn’t like the cross, there may be others, but this covers some of the cases anyway.
Mormons and 19th century Christians did not like the cross – The Cross has been viewed as Catholic only in the past, and that mostly during their persecution, torture and execution of other sects of Christians. http://www.mormontimes.com/article/5418/Sunstone-speaker-attempts-to-explain-LDS-aversion-to-cross

Cathars – These are a group of Christians who didn’t like the cross and saw it as a symbol of Christ’s torture. This whole site is cool. I was a Cathar in a past life.
http://www.cathar.info/1201_beliefs.htm
http://www.worldcat.org/wcpa/servlet/DCARead?standardNo=0802713505&standardNoType=1&excerpt=true (specific beliefs about the cross by Cathars)

Gnostics – The earliest Christians chose the sign of the fish, not the sign of the cross. The Gnostic Gospels have a different flavor than the Canonized Gospels Here is a resource on all the works of theirs we have. I think you’d find them interesting. The Catholics burned them and their books but this library was hidden and saved. Every Gnostic work ever discovered is accessible on this site. http://www.gnosis.org/naghamm/nhl.html

The Cross
Bible References
Jesus prayed three times that if there was any other way, he’d prefer not to be crucified, but that he would be submissive to God’s will on the matter.
Matt 26: 36-45 http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?s

earch=Matthew+26&version=NIV
The Crucifixion (Jesus was executed as ordered by the established Religion)
Matt 27 http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Matthew+27&version=NIV

Against the Established Order of Religion
The book of Matt has a whole chapter devoted to Jesus preaching against the Pharisees. If you read this you will find that there are many people like this today in business, in politics and in church.
Matt 23 http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Matthew%2023&version=AMP

[New Rage Guru]

Cool post K&G.

[windwhistle]

I always saw myself as an open-minded spiritual person. I have always felt uncomfortable in church. I was raised Episcopalean but all I remember was my frantic Mother dressing all five of us up in the latest Sak's dresses so she could show us off to her wealthy friends.

But a friend of mine told me the other day that I should open up to new things and I didn't like this...because it was the truth. So I sat down to watch t.v.which I never do. And there was Jesus on the Discovery Channel. I made myself watch it. It was factual. There were archeologists, scientists and historians re-creating the 'real Jesus.' This Jesus on t.v.had dark hair and brown eyes which makes a lot more sense to me than the blue-eyed, skinny one they always depict. And this Jesus was a rebel, and he was outspoken and he wanted to change the Roman oppression on the Jews. And he cared nothing for money...his parents were shepherds. He was poor and young and hell bent on changing his world. I came away feeling like he was a pretty hip, tuned in individual and I admired his courage start a movement.

Then I decided to pray to him. Boy, was I embarrassing myself here. Even to say his name in my head felt awkward...but I opened my mind a little and let him in. I fell asleep shortly thereafter. And I had a dream...a deeply spiritual dream about my step-daughter. I knew I was to take action immediately after the dream and call her. It was her birthday and I had been resisting this relationship as my husband, ( her Father,) had been the victim of her Mother's thievery. Anyway...long story...we hadn't tales in two years.

But all I felt inside myself was this outpouring of unconditional love towards her. I got goosebumbs all over and my hair stood on end. I heard Jesus tell me there wasn't much time. I wondered if I was about to die or something. But it was 6pm west coast time and she lives on the east coast. So I called. And her love and gratitude poured from her as I told her how much I loved her. We talked and truly connected. She was so happy to get that call. The feeling I got back was almost euphoric.

So I don't know a lot about Jesus. But I now know Jesus. He was/is all about the love and peace and healing. He works fast. He's way tuned in. He's an incredibly powerful force.

Will I go to church now. No. I still loathe church. Will I read the bible? Nope. Will I convert to Christianity. nope. And the real Jesus could care less about all that stuff. It's us human's with all our little plans and designs that have twisted his message from what it originally was...that of unconditional love and
forgiveness.

He was an enlightened being just like Buddha, Lao-tzu and so many others. I don't want to learn about him because I want to keep my new understanding of him unsullied.

Anyway if you can cut through your upbringing and all the **...there is a real strong powerful spirit who wants to help. Wish I hadn't waited so long. Jesus was a hippy just like me!

[SunMist]

Windwhistle, awesome post. This is how I develop my own understanding of Jesus and many other divine beings. I trust what I feel when I contact them directly. I think when people let other people tell them who Jesus (or any other divine rep) is they miss out on a personal knowing. And really in the realm of the spiritual that's all that matters. I don't care for churches with people in them - I find it overwhelming just as I find going to the mall overwhelming. But I do like empty churches for thinking or praying.

One thing I did find puzzling about Sangress' seeing all the people at the Easter service with this gold light is that not all people are equally spiritual. Some are genuine, but some just go to church to make a show and polish their image. Sangress did you see variation in the energies of the people or were they all gold and glowy?

[theophilus]

And the real Jesus could care less about all that stuff.But how do you know the Jesus you are in contact with is the real Jesus? Jesus said,For false christs and false prophets will arise and perform signs and wonders, to lead astray, if possible, the elect.
Mark 13:22 ESV

The Bible contains the only written record we have about what he did and said while he was on earth so it is the only way we can distinguish between the real Jesus and imposters. A false Jesus would certainly try to make you feel happy about communicating with him but our feelings don't always reflect reality. A person who is under the influence of alcohol or some other drug can feel happy even while his body is being destroyed. Isn't it possible that a person under the influence of a deceiving spirit could be made to feel great happiness and joy even while his soul is being destroyed?

[KandG]

Windwhistle, that was a beautiful post, and as someone who has sought out Jesus all my life, that certainly sounds like him. It is so cool that you called your step daughter, and you guys are on the same page.

Theophilis, Just Curious, but why on earth would you think that this isn't a real experience? I mean I know we, as experienced spiritual practitioners do have to worry about being tricked about certain things. We must be cautious, but WE have the assurance that "My sheep know my voice." The bible clearly states that if you seek Jesus you will find him.
Matt 7
7 “Ask and it will be given to you; seek and you will find; knock and the door will be opened to you. 8 For everyone who asks receives; the one who seeks finds; and to the one who knocks, the door will be opened.
9 “Which of you, if your son asks for bread, will give him a stone? 10 Or if he asks for a fish, will give him a snake? 11 If you, then, though you are evil, know how to give good gifts to your children, how much more will your Father in heaven give good gifts to those who ask him! 12 So in everything, do to others what you would have them do to you, for this sums up the Law and the Prophets.

With an inexperienced first time seeker? God would not allow it. Besides Jesus stands at the very door of our heart, always knocking. Why would he let some false Jesus slip in before him? Jesus is always ready to give answer. Those of us who have to worry about false Jesus's in our head are the ones who already know the truth but allow our own desires to lead us astray.

As for the Bible, there are also the Gnostic Gospels, just as authentic... and I am sure that eventually Windwhistle will get curious enough to read something eventually. As for Church, well that's sometimes a good place, and sometimes not. It depends on the Church. A lot of people get hurt there, and that is a place where people can be introduced to someone else's false Christ. People are sometimes most lead astray in the pew. If you decide to go to church, choose one with a food pantry or soup kitchen and a prison ministry, or a drug ministry. Pick one that lays hands on the sick and has healings. You will know them by their fruits, and if they are doing nothing but sitting around making up impossible rules, and being sour all the time, then it isn't a real church. Real churches have outreaches to the poor and the sick.

[theophilus]

Theophilis, Just Curious, but why on earth would you think that this isn't a real experience?I believe it was a real experience. But what was its source? The Bible say, "Do not believe every spirit, but test the spirits to see whether they are from God."

With an inexperienced first time seeker? God would not allow it. Besides Jesus stands at the very door of our heart, always knocking. Why would he let some false Jesus slip in before him?But how do you know the false Jesus did slip in ahead of the real one? In the first paragraph of her post she said she went to church as a child so she at least had the opportunity to learn about the real Jesus.

[windwhistle]

Theophilus,
Try praying to someone out of your 'box,' like I did! See what happens and let me know. This could be Bhudda, Lao-Tzu, the Goddess, any divine spirit as long as it is a faith unknown to you. You will be amazed if you are sincere and open. I know it will feel awkward...but that's growth baby! Jesus wants us to be free from fear. With love, there is no fear.

P.s. Jesus intuited this message to you from me because I asked him to!

[windwhistle]

I Know it was Jesus because my heart said so!!! Get out of your mind and into your heart!!! Wheeeee.......!

[New Rage Guru]

Anyway if you can cut through your upbringing and all the **...there is a real strong powerful spirit who wants to help. Wish I hadn't waited so long. Jesus was a hippy just like me!

Great post.:smile:


Growing up my Dad hated religion and drew to him many memorable encounters with folk who wanted to convert him. I didn't agree with my dad much but I did grow to resent religion. After my Saturn return stage I found myself open to religions but mostly was drawn to reading and studying the bible with a friend of mine.

We both agreed that the bible is not history; it has links but so does any good story. It was not factual because of its contradictory nature. We both understood that "God" was not a man.

But we were starting to understand how it worked on an inner level.

Praying to Jesus is impossible for me. I do believe in a "Christ" energy/consciousness however. This energy guides me towards the higher good. It has helped me understand the biblical "father" and has taught me to love the "Lord"

I believe we are all an aspect of the divine, each of us as important as the next, and we can all know Christ consciousness...Whatever we call it.

So to me; knowing Jesus helped me know Christ...

That's his job I guess.

[Light21]

Sangress...
I thought of something. The cross and many religious artifacts represent pain. Jesus obviously suffered through them and then people often throw their pain into the artifacts. Kind of like how crystals are used as a place to store energy. Same concept I think just different religions.
So what if your adversion is the pain behind it? Because it hurts you directly. I dont know why I didnt think of this sooner. I have always had a hard time understanding why the cross is displayed so much shouldnt we have an open tomb to look at to represent his resurrection? Something happy? I like the dove symbol also. I am Catholic..well sorta..not sure what religion I am I guess other then Christian. I have a hard time in most Catholic churches. The catholic school thing I was forced into was horrible. Then most churches seem rather stuck up and a priest sins...and according to the church I have to confess my sins to this sinner priest and that is the only way to access God for sins to be forgiven? Someone correct me if I am wrong. What if I was living in the woods and no priest was around. Would I never be forgiven then? It doesnt add up!!!!!!!!!
Sorry I kinda took this off topic.

[NightSpirit]

I love the idea of 'god' but not the christian idea of a finite god sitting 'up' there somewhere dispensing reward and punishment. I just can't deal with that idea. I refuse to adopt the idea that i'm born a sinner and remain so all my life....like being thrown into an oven but forever being burnt alive. Not my idea of a gracious, loving god.

Having said that, I feel maybe that's why many folks are now being turned off by the christian god and all it represents. You simply cannot win their arguments...doesn't matter what you say...their answer is "That's the devil speaking".

So perhaps this is why (if for no other reason) you cannot swallow it?

God to me is Omnipresent...of no form....of no race, religion, gender...not separate from me or above me. I AM...........

[Prokopton]

This is such an interesting thread to me!

I had a similar dislike of Christianity. It turned out to be quite complex in my case, but not insurmountably so. Some of the issues were my own problems with authority and freedom of thought, others were to do with Christian doctrines which I couldn't believe, etc. etc.

As it turned out, actual Christianity didn't bother me nearly so much as the cultural assumption that Christianity and Spirituality were the same thing. Since then I've learned a great deal about Christianity and my attitude towards it has softened considerably, but it was an interesting set of lessons and one many people are going through I think at this time. I'd like to thank all the people who contributed to this thread, it's a kind of snapshot of an interesting cultural moment.

[Sangress]

I've been absent for a while, just got back to this post.

I've been researching islam and am beginning to research judaism which are both closely connected to christianity.

So far there are no alarm bells ringing in my head with either of them, so still my "religious issues" sit with christianity itself.

I'll read over everything I've missed and reply to as much as I can when I can.

[Bluegreen]

The thread is quite interesting.

How do vampires come into this? I wasn't aware of any link between Christ and vampires.
Legend, if legend it is, has it that when vampires are touched by a cross which they fear, it leaves blisters on their skin. Legend also says that garlic is a protection against vampires.

Does your partner have any white or gold in his aura?

Have you ever tried hypnotism to find the reason for why you are as you are? It is said that through hypnosis it is possible to access the 'core you' that knows more than the persona does.

Have you looked for a way to protect yourself? New Agers, for example, advocate protecting yourself with white light which is no option for you.

I gather that reading about Christianity, God, etc. does not pose a problem.

And also, since many people are very connected to the metaphysical world, would it be even more far fetched to say that this metaphysical damage could manifest its physically (thereby causing actually physical injury or pain or an instinctual emotional/flight or fight reaction?)
I would say 'yes.' Before something manifests in the physical (body), it was first 'created' so to speak in other realms, our other 'layers.' My grandmother once dreamed she was bitten by a snake and woke up to find two puncture marks like a snake bite on her arm. Hypnotic suggestion can produce blisters for example.

In one of Dolores Cannon's books (I believe it was Between Life and Death), a hypnotized subject described how he was shown people as a living multi-coloured tapestry. Among all the coloured threads were black threads. It was explained to him that the black threads did not represent anything negative but people who were walking a different path. Your story reminded me of this passage.

Do you love? I think you do. If so, what do you feel when it is said that God is Love. All religions, belief systems, say this. Logically (logically to me) this means that when you love you express God.

[Sangress]

I'll answer all the posts I've missed in order. Just letting you all know just to make sure I'm not ignoring you.

How is someone supposed to answer a question like “Has anyone come across someone else reacting this way to Christianity/ Aversion to god. Can anyone find a reason for this? I'm at my wits end with trying to understand why I react this way, so hopefully others might be able to help me see a different perspective and help me understand these feelings.
New Rage Guru

They are “supposed” to answer in whatever way they see fit. No answer is any more or less correct than the next unless its attributed to my personal situation…in which case it would be a case of eliminating ideas that don‘t seem to “fit“ and gaining insight in other areas.



When they are then confronted by this stuff… No one I know has ever had this stuff happen and how could one guess where you would be going with this???
I did not know where I would be going with this in the first place, so I do not expect anyone to know the answers straight up. But different opinions and experiences shared from others is always a help in some way because it’s a different perspective and very thought provoking.

I have read some of your past post from different threads and I’m actually intrigued by you more than irritated. I think it would be great to have a post that’s called “Let’s dissect Sangress.” You up for it.
Hmm, not sure if I should take that as a compliment. I think being irritating to others would be far more fun *evil grin.* And hmm….I am drawn to your suggestion (if you are actually serious about it) and a bit dubious as to why I interest anyone. I’d say that I’m open to a “lets dissect Sangress” thread as long as at heart it is good natured (not one of those "I will prove you wrong/ridicule you/be ridiculious...kinds of things) and as long as I don’t get automatically dubbed as being egotistical/self centered when I keep talking about…well…myself. Lol.

I foolishly thought she was talking about “Gold” the metal. I now understand that this convo’ is way over my head and beyond my belief capabilities. I reasoned that gold from Christians necklaces and from (non-existant) gold stuff in the church was freaking her out.

I was actually talking about both the metal and the energy because both seem to be connected in some way (as is the sun too.) So you got it…sort of….

Sangress quotes I don’t understand.
I don't know how much clearer I can make myself and you seem uninterested in understanding any of what I wrote, so I won't bother clarifying unless I know its worth my time.

Are most people on this chat forum hyper sensitive to criticism?
Umm...Yes? I can't speak for everyone (or anyone for that matter.)

[Sangress]

KandG, thats a good post/artical you wrote above there. You even took the time to put sources in. Thank you.

Windwhistle, thank you for sharing your story.

One thing I did find puzzling about Sangress' seeing all the people at the Easter service with this gold light is that not all people are equally spiritual. Some are genuine, but some just go to church to make a show and polish their image. Sangress did you see variation in the energies of the people or were they all gold and glowy?
Sunmist

I saw a lot of variation in their own energy, auras...etc just the same as any living thing. But the gold energy was all exactly the same, same frequency and strength. It has been a while since that time, so my memory isn't too up to scratch, but I do remember that the amount of that energy within them did vary quite a lot, but because of how...well...bright and overpowering it was I didn't get the best view and didn't stay there for half as long as I could have.

I might take another look when I am able to to double check.

Thank you for getting me to pay attention to all of that.

[Bluegreen]

Another try.

First of all, your thread is intriguing rather than interesting. It is intriguing because what you are telling is totally new to me.

Quote:
Originally Posted by SangressHow do vampires come into this? I wasn't aware of any link between Christ and vampires.

Legend, if legend it is, has it that when vampires are touched by a cross, which they fear, it leaves blisters on their skin. Legend also says that garlic is a protection against vampires.I added this bit because Theopholis apparently said this because you mentioned your hand being blistered by a cross.

Does your partner have any white or gold in his aura? Perhaps too personal a question.

Have you ever tried hypnotism to find the reason for why you are as you are? It is said that through hypnosis it is possible to access the 'core you' that knows more than the persona does.

What I meant is not the regular kind of hypnotism. What I was thinking of was the hypnotism practised by Dolores Cannon who says she induces a somnambulistic state in her subjects. Once they are in this state, she communicates with an entity that appears to be the same no matter who or where in the world her subject is.

Is there a way in which you can protect yourself?

[Sangress]

I thought of something. The cross and many religious artifacts represent pain. Jesus obviously suffered through them and then people often throw their pain into the artifacts. Kind of like how crystals are used as a place to store energy. Same concept I think just different religions.
So what if your adversion is the pain behind it? Because it hurts you directly.

I cant say yes or no to that. But I do happen to enjoy other peoples pain (sadistic I know) or more specifically the energy produced from that....so theoretically I should like the cross if peoples pain and negativity is being concentrated on it. But yeh, still leaving that open to exploration.

I refuse to adopt the idea that i'm born a sinner and remain so all my life....like being thrown into an oven but forever being burnt alive. Not my idea of a gracious, loving god.

Having said that, I feel maybe that's why many folks are now being turned off by the christian god and all it represents. You simply cannot win their arguments...doesn't matter what you say...their answer is "That's the devil speaking".

So perhaps this is why (if for no other reason) you cannot swallow it?

It's a long shot, but thats still a possibility.


Does your partner have any white or gold in his aura?

No he doesn't, he is similar to myself...but without the overly exaggerated/intense/ridiculious reactions.

Have you ever tried hypnotism to find the reason for why you are as you are? It is said that through hypnosis it is possible to access the 'core you' that knows more than the persona does.

What I meant is not the regular kind of hypnotism. What I was thinking of was the hypnotism practised by Dolores Cannon who says she induces a somnambulistic state in her subjects. Once they are in this state, she communicates with an entity that appears to be the same no matter who or where in the world her subject is.

No, I have never approached hypnotism before because I honestly do not trust it for some reason.

Is there a way in which you can protect yourself?

From the affects of the energy and the religion in general? Not that I know of. As far as potential threats go, spiritually speaking, if I can't drain the energy out of it, and if I can't throw a psychic attack at it and if it trumps my defences....then I'm vulnerable.

Legend, if legend it is, has it that when vampires are touched by a cross, which they fear, it leaves blisters on their skin. Legend also says that garlic is a protection against vampires.
I added this bit because Theopholis apparently said this because you mentioned your hand being blistered by a cross.

I find that information interesting. I treat legends and myths as what they are until I gather any evidence linking them to my own personal experience....and that is actually evidence right there...so hmm. I'd have to think on that for a while before even approaching the conclusions I could get out of that information.

(Also, sorry for the delay in replies. Been busy. If I've missed anything please say so.)

[Miss Hepburn]

Sangress, hi...

For some reason I think you would enjoy reading about Spinoza - so many people have never heard of him - and he is such an important person in history...quoted by Einstein - early thoughts used by Freud,
tell me what you think perusing this...
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Baruch_Spinoza (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Baruch_Spinoza)

:smile: Miss Hepburn

[Bluegreen]

Sangress, hi...

For some reason I think you would enjoy reading about Spinoza - so many people have never heard of him - and he is such an important person in history...quoted by Einstein - early thoughts used by Freud,
tell me what you think perusing this...
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Baruch_Spinoza (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Baruch_Spinoza)

:smile: Miss Hepburn

:D Coincidence? Only this week I was reading some Spinoza. Curious.

[Miss Hepburn]

:D Coincidence? Only this week I was reading some Spinoza. Curious.
I'm so glad.

[Bluegreen]

Quote:
Is there a way in which you can protect yourself?


From the affects of the energy and the religion in general? Not that I know of. As far as potential threats go, spiritually speaking, if I can't drain the energy out of it, and if I can't throw a psychic attack at it and if it trumps my defences....then I'm vulnerable.

In a way you have to do battle to protect yourself.

I wonder whether it is a matter of the frequencies of vibration. For example, anger, violence, etc. are raw energies having a low frequency, I guess. You thrive on those. Higher vibrations could therefore be 'deadly'.

I find that information interesting. I treat legends and myths as what they are until I gather any evidence linking them to my own personal experience....and that is actually evidence right there...so hmm. I'd have to think on that for a while before even approaching the conclusions I could get out of that information.

Haven't you ever seen a movie about vampires? Here is a link about vampires:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vampire

About the gold light in churches. I once read how someone was observing a group of people that were with a guru. He observed this light which surrounded the guru and thought it belonged to the guru until the guru left the group and he discovered that the light was the love felt for the guru by the people he was with.

(Also, sorry for the delay in replies. Been busy. If I've missed anything please say so.)
You haven't. Thanks.

[Sangress]

Sangress, hi...

For some reason I think you would enjoy reading about Spinoza - so many people have never heard of him - and he is such an important person in history...quoted by Einstein - early thoughts used by Freud,
tell me what you think perusing this...
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Baruch_Spinoza (http://www.spiritualforums.com/vb/redir.php?link=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.spiritualforums.co m%2Fvb%2Fredir.php%3Flink%3Dhttp%253A%252F%252Fwww .spiritualforums.com%252Fvb%252Fredir.php%253Flink %253Dhttp%25253A%25252F%25252Fen.wikipedia.org%252 52Fwiki%25252FBaruch_Spinoza)
Interesting, he and I seem to have a bit in common. I'll be doing more extensive research on him for sure.

In a way you have to do battle to protect yourself.

Yeh, its always been like that. I assume its just the predatory way of being. Fighting to rights for ones own "territory,"challenging others who are a threat before they get the upper hand.

I also think that, since I generally don't have energy to spare....attacking is probably easier than defending because the latter option takes more effort and energy to maintain...whereas the former takes a few moments.

So, naturally I'm probably in conflict with a lot of things because its just "easier" for me to fight.

It's all speculation though, I'm as much of a stranger to myself as you are to me.

I wonder whether it is a matter of the frequencies of vibration. For example, anger, violence, etc. are raw energies having a low frequency, I guess. You thrive on those. Higher vibrations could therefore be 'deadly'.
Hmm. Thats a possibility.

I was going to say that I can blend and match myself to most energies, but later in my development I've come to find its the other way around. Energies blend well with me and match my frequency.

Haven't you ever seen a movie about vampires?
Other than twilight (which I will never watch again if my life depended on it :P) and some cheap horrors? No.

I've heavily researched historical information and recounts about all things vampire related, but I've never been game enough to get involved in the pop culture....etc side of it all because, to be honest I just consider the majority of it to be (excuse the bluntness) a complete load of bullsh*t with absolutely no ties to reality what-so-ever.

I was aware or rumanian traditions with garlic and thyme being used to ward off vamps, beheading corpses and putting blessed rocks in the mouths of their deceased relatives after death, as well as occasionally putting coins on the deads eyes so as not to allow them to open again...and other things used in the middle ages to ward of or deter (or kill) vampires.

But I've honestly never heard of a link between christinaity/the cross and vampires in general...so this is news to me.

On a normal basis I would think that perhaps someone who was christian decided vampires were "of the devil" or unholy and said they'd be burned by a cross to back up their assumptions, or maybe it was a ploy to convert people by getting them to wear the cross for "protection."

But my personal experience has thrown that logic out the window, so I'll just be confused until I get to the bottom of that.

About the gold light in churches. I once read how someone was observing a group of people that were with a guru. He observed this light which surrounded the guru and thought it belonged to the guru until the guru left the group and he discovered that the light was the love felt for the guru by the people he was with.
I've observed similar things to that. I like to call it the "attention Wh*re affect" because if a bunch of people focus on the same thing in the same way (similar emotions inspired at the same time) then their energy tends to congregate around the person (or object)...its like they turn the point of focus into a magnet.

I use that affect to my advantage all the time. Comes in handy when you want to give people a particular impression or want to make them "blind" to what is underneath their energy.

[SunMist]

Sangress, I just had a thought have you explored this issue with the aversion to Christian stuff / gold light etc. on any psychic vampire forums? Maybe there might be some folks there with the same type of problem?

About the Easter service, that's interesting about the gold light being the same even though the individual auras were different - maybe what you were seeing was the collective energy of their faith. And each individual might be contributing a different amount but it all formed one big batch of similar type energy?

[Sangress]

Sangress, I just had a thought have you explored this issue with the aversion to Christian stuff / gold light etc. on any psychic vampire forums? Maybe there might be some folks there with the same type of problem

I already personally know three others who have the same issue (and I don't know too many other people like me, so its either a freak coincidence or its not so uncommon after all) and I've contemplated asking around. But I try to stay far away from the entire vamp community (including websites) because there are a lot of misled people in those places, and I tend to attract way too much attention because I have a bit of a reputation.

Also, considering most of the residents in places like that are 14 year olds who cant spell for the life of them who want to be "turned"....I prefer to watch and listen rather than actually actively participate so that I don't end up tearing my hair out in frustraition.

In the meantime I'll probably quietly ask around and go looking for comments that others have made that could link up to this and maybe inquire further.


About the Easter service, that's interesting about the gold light being the same even though the individual auras were different - maybe what you were seeing was the collective energy of their faith. And each individual might be contributing a different amount but it all formed one big batch of similar type energy?
http://www.spiritualforums.com/vb/images/evonature/buttons/quote.gif (http://www.spiritualforums.com/vb/newreply.php?do=newreply&p=241175)

I was thinking something along those lines as well.

Maybe theres a collective "christian/god" consciousness and energy that people happen to add to or maybe tap into during prayer or simply when they feel they are "in the presence of god" or maybe they are always connected to it/creating it on some level?

[Perspective]

I know several people who get nautious at the thought of going to church.
IMO, They don't have an aversion to true Christian or Divine beliefs, but rather an aversion to the traditionally fear & shame-based teachings.
I feel similarly, yet I've agreed with DH to attend, so my sanity saver is redefining gospel terms.