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daddysgirl
22-03-2011, 11:38 PM
I have recently spoken to a vicar whilst arranging a family funeral. As we got talking i mentioned in conversation that i wasvery much into spiritulism/ Mediumship from a young age and had recently had a reading. He told me that in the bible this practice was classed as witchcraft and the church was very against it. I then proceeded to tell him that Jesus died and rose again and also eternal life. He had to think about his answer. Then he told me who the local exorcism preist was for the area where i live. So if they dont tolerate or believe in the subject why do they have a specific preist local for exercisms. And why did Jesus die for us and rise again. Anyone know as im confussed. com :icon_eek:

Sarian
22-03-2011, 11:47 PM
I think really that take this website for example, probably 95 percent of it would be classified as witchcraft and/or demonic according to the bible...

nightowl
23-03-2011, 12:03 AM
hmmmm...In the old testament I believe they were referring to contacting the dead for information, such as divining the future and such. So from a religious stand point they should be seeking God not the dead. Exorcist are mainly used in cases of demonic possession, I think that some may confuse this with being possessed by the spirit of the dead. It could simply be the case of the church separating it from what they believe is God lead spiritualism vs dead lead. If it isn't coming from God than it is of the devil, that kind of thinking is how they justify what they believe. Of course to me the gift of prophesy is pretty much the same thing. Just my opinion and I welcome those who know better to clear up anything I may have gotten wrong. :hug3:

nightowl

Terry
08-05-2011, 07:32 PM
I don't believe in the bible but I do believe in most aspects of Spiritualism including talking to the dead even though I don't have that ability. I, personally, don't think Spiritualism and Christianity are not compatible with one another as both have different beliefs what contradict each other plus I find many aspects of Christianity to be unrealistic and scientifially inaccurate.

Wyrdsmith
08-05-2011, 08:20 PM
An interesting report on an investigation done by the Church of England into Spiritualism in 1937.

www dot cfpf dot org dot uk / articles / religion / cofe_report / cofe_report dot html (my apologies for putting the web address this way - I've not posted enough to be allowed to put url's into my posts ...)

It was suppressed at the time, but later 'leaked' to the Psychic News in the late 1960s.

mac
08-05-2011, 11:28 PM
I have recently spoken to a vicar whilst arranging a family funeral. As we got talking i mentioned in conversation that i wasvery much into spiritulism/ Mediumship from a young age and had recently had a reading. He told me that in the bible this practice was classed as witchcraft and the church was very against it. I then proceeded to tell him that Jesus died and rose again and also eternal life. He had to think about his answer. Then he told me who the local exorcism preist was for the area where i live. So if they dont tolerate or believe in the subject why do they have a specific preist local for exercisms. And why did Jesus die for us and rise again. Anyone know as im confussed. com :icon_eek:

There's a huge amount of ignorance in mainstream churches - priests are just doing their jobs and it's unrealistic to expect much of them in terms of enlightenment about life, death and what follows. Their religions are full of ludicrous stories and belief of what can't be explained is routinely expected. Priests are the last ones to ask about life and death, unless you're prepared to accept mumbo-jumbo.

If you genuinely want to understand about survival beyond death, mediumship et al then there's an abundance of information available.

Modern Spiritualism, or just 'Spiritualism' to use its usual name, has been explaining the issues you're confused about for many decades and its guidance is available for all.

No-one is expected to believe anything as issues are fully explained.

MYFIGO
09-05-2011, 12:17 AM
About two years ago, I began to read the Bible so I would understand and know it better. I felt defenseless when people interpreted to suit themselves. It angered me to see them do that.

By reading it, I not only learned about it, but experienced some lovely spiritual progress. I know that just because someone is Christian or in the ministry, it does not mean they are perfect. They are human just like the rest of us. If we are knowledgeable, perhaps we can kindly and patiently enlighten them.

About a year into my reading of it, one of my friends who is very Christian told me she was afraid the devil was behind the healing I do. I told her to go back and read her Bible again, especially the Books of Mathew, Luke and John.

To her credit, she did and came back and apologized to me.

A couple of months ago, a Christian woman accused me (very sweetly) of saying I was a prophet, all the while holding her Bible. I told her that I was not indeed. I only did what we all can do with Jesus and faith. Rather than just saying memorized prayers, I talk with him face to face.

I then encouraged her to ask herself why she thought she was unworthy of him. We don't need anyone to go to him for us. He is available to us all. I reminded her that he says that if we only had the faith of a mustard seed, we could do all that he can do and more.

To her credit, she spoke to friends at her church and they encouraged her to develop a friendship with me and she has. She is just lovely. She was only misguided.

mac
09-05-2011, 08:07 AM
About two years ago, I began to read the Bible so I would understand and know it better. I felt defenseless when people interpreted to suit themselves. It angered me to see them do that.

By reading it, I not only learned about it, but experienced some lovely spiritual progress. I know that just because someone is Christian or in the ministry, it does not mean they are perfect. They are human just like the rest of us. If we are knowledgeable, perhaps we can kindly and patiently enlighten them.

About a year into my reading of it, one of my friends who is very Christian told me she was afraid the devil was behind the healing I do. I told her to go back and read her Bible again, especially the Books of Mathew, Luke and John.

To her credit, she did and came back and apologized to me.

A couple of months ago, a Christian woman accused me (very sweetly) of saying I was a prophet, all the while holding her Bible. I told her that I was not indeed. I only did what we all can do with Jesus and faith. Rather than just saying memorized prayers, I talk with him face to face.

I then encouraged her to ask herself why she thought she was unworthy of him. We don't need anyone to go to him for us. He is available to us all. I reminded her that he says that if we only had the faith of a mustard seed, we could do all that he can do and more.

To her credit, she spoke to friends at her church and they encouraged her to develop a friendship with me and she has. She is just lovely. She was only misguided.
A nice account with a positive outcome. :hug3:

I sometimes discuss my own specialism with LDS etc. but I will NEVER allow them to quote from their Bibles. I insist that they explain only using their own words and without the weapons of chapter and verse to beat me into submission. That levels the playing field considerably!

They're then like children who have taken off their swim aids in the pool and thrash around without direction and constantly at risk of slipping beneath the surface of the water....:wink:

Neither do I disclose my own religious persuasion or specialty, responding only to the points they try to make but with which they struggle without the support of their props.

deepsea
28-05-2011, 04:36 PM
Just to butt in here.
I was brought up in the C of E and my father's funeral was taken by a minister of that church.

He kept his eyes fixed on me and looking above me with a smile on his face.
After the funeral he came to chat with hubby and I.
His first question was 'Did we believe that we lived after death'.
Hubby answered 'Yes'.
That minister took us to one side and promptly told me that my father was standing behind me with his hands on my shoulders.

That was a minister of the C of E.
It is surprising how many men of God quietly do keep faith with the spiritualist religion.

Deepsea

Dream Angel
31-05-2011, 10:27 PM
Wow, deepsea, that was very cool for the priest to have told you that !

Dream Angel xx

nsantori
31-05-2011, 10:40 PM
About two years ago, I began to read the Bible so I would understand and know it better. I felt defenseless when people interpreted to suit themselves. It angered me to see them do that.

Since I grew up in a very religious Greek family, I took religion seriously, and I was very involved with church activities. By age 16, I was an atheist, but continued reading as many religious books as I could get my hands on. I realized very early that the majority of the "faithful" never read the Bible. Orthodox or Catholic Christians were unable to read ancient Greek or Latin. They relied on priest who could not read Greek or Latin either. Protestants did not seem to try to find the truth in the Bible. They like their own (incorrect) interpretations.

I recently joined a Methodist church in my small town. My wife is very religious, but falls in the same category I described above. At a Bible study sessions, I brought up the fact that their Bible was misquoting Jesus, in all four Gospels. According to their translations, any time Jesus was asked if he was the King of the Jews, or the son of god, He responds "yes, it is as you say". Anyone who read the original Gospels knows that the quotation is "συ ειπας" That's what YOU say!

How can so many millions of people be misquoting their savior? When I brought the issue up with the pastor, he admitted that he had heard that it was a misquote, but he continued to regard the erroneous version as the correct one, even though many people from the congregation have also heard the correct version.

People who follow the Bible as the correct word of God, are distancing themselves from reality.

thehermit
05-09-2011, 01:23 AM
I don't beleive so. Often times there is a difference between what is said in thebible and what is learned within the church (unfortunately). The bible mentions seven (?) gifts of the spirit, each referring to but not limited to cairaudience, clairvoyance, empathic skills, and the like. Those within the bible have risen people from the dead, prayed to spirits and god and made a certian out come happen.

It's not that these gifts or any gifts are "witchcraft" or "of the deveil" but the bible reocgnizes that everyone can ave gifts, but that if not used purely, then it can become dangerous. The witchcraft it refers to is the dangerousness or dealing with darker entitites.

I attended a church where many had spiritual gifts, never once was it referred to as witchcraft. In fact, those I met within the church were more spiritually inclinded (recieving visions, seeing spirits, etc.) and could have opened up their own "pyschic" shoppes but instead waited for a movement within their soul and reached out to those who they felt they *needed* to. Like I said, I beleive it's intent as well as what ballpark youre playing in. Just keep in mind, most people are spoonfed beliefs, no matter the religion/political party/race/gender, and that in itself is the true problem.

Side note: As far as those claming that one beleif system is wrong, be weary of that as you yourself (most likely) have no better grasp on reality/truth. The bible differs because of translations and cultural differences within areas. Any time ANYTHING becomes a part of a culture it gets "tweaked" to fit personal agendas/platforms. The Bible is an advocate of havign your OWN relationship with God. An organic and natural progression. Not pray 3 times a day, fear fire and brim stone, and OLY learn and go to the church. When one learns from man, the information is skewed. We often times have the informaiton within ourselves and those who lvoe us to help us learn it. On several occasions I've been led to discuss soemthing I feel Jesus would say, things I felt to be true in my heart that I was hearing from my higher self. Then, after talking to those who were Christian (and not crazy/judgement, i.e "normal"), they were able to tell me the *exact* passage in which I was referring to (depsite me having no real knowledge of the bible). It's not that is it not true, it is that we don't listen. Also, the bible is similar to teachings such as Tao, Quran, Bhagvhadigita (spelling?) and traditional yet accepting beliefs; however, to see this you must get rid of judgements you have of it and stop seeing everything as literal. Read as you would any other religious text and there will be truth. A lot of it. Soemtiems the problem is not other people, the text you read, the insution you attended or the world...soemtimes, the problem is yourself. This is no personal atatck on any one, just ismply what I've learned in life. A chance to become a better person can be seen within everything, everything and everyone is both good and bad. Pick and chose your expriences, to harp on one reflects your own soul... if that makes any sense.

(Short answer:)But bringing it back ontopic, yeah, the bible has been misinterpreted. No, I don't beleive it would all be considered witchcaft.

mac
05-09-2011, 02:59 AM
Wow this thread I'm subscribed to is six months old - ancient and near dead by forum standards.

I'm outa here!

Seperate_Reality
06-09-2011, 02:44 PM
The below link is a very good read on this very topic from The Bible UFO Connection, The Bible and the Paranormal A New Perspective.


"The Bible and Death
Death, as described in the Bible, is virtually unknown to both the Church and the rest of the world. Heaven, Hell, and even the grave are out of the equation in the actual biblical definition. It is surprisingly simple in its presentation, yet incredibly profound in its ramifications on the orthodox view of death. This amazing verse is considered to be the writing of David:
"The days of our years are threescore years and ten; and if by reason of strength they be fourscore years, yet is their strength labour and sorrow; for it is soon cut off, and we fly away." (Psalms 90:10)
A proper modern English translation is: We live 70 years, and if strong, 80 years, yet the only thing to show is toil and vanity, but it ends soon and we fly away. There is no mistranslation in the words fly away; it is taken from the Hebew word `uwph, pronounced oof, which means "to fly".
The Bible is actually saying that after we die we literally leave the body behind and fly. That is not something one is taught in Christianity, or is even touched upon by the pulpit, although it is found in the very Bible Christianity uses for the foundation of its dogma. Yet, it is easily recognized and understood by believers in the paranormal, whose concepts are rejected by the Church, and who generally reject scripture as an authoritative source.
In a statement we have often repeated is found a truth, which is clearly reflected in the concept just presented, yet not considered by either the Church or paranormal researchers. We believe the Bible gives little foundation for Christian practices, beliefs, or doctrines, but it is rich with evidence that gives strong validation to many of those who believe in the paranormal."

http://www.bibleufo.com/articlebiblepara2.htm

abikisses
06-09-2011, 04:36 PM
A group that I used to belong to in the old msn groups called hope from beyond, had a section on biblical proofs which the lady that ran the group, Lily personally wrote.


Bible Verses: 1 Samuel, 9:9-10 Formerly in Israel, when a man went to inquire if God, he said, "Come, let us go to the seer; for he who is now called a prophet was formerly called a seer. And Saul said to his servant, "Well said; come, let us go." So they went to the city where the man of God was.

2 Kings 17:13 Yet the Lord warned Israel and Judah by every prophet and every seer, saying "Turn from your evil ways and keep my commandments and my statutes, in accordance with all the law which I commanded your fathers, and which I sent to you by my servants, the prophets.

Laying on of Hands (Reiki):

This is the ancient ability God gave those who are devoted to Him with the ability to transfer Cosmic Wholeness of Spirit incased in God's Own Hands and then allowed to flow down into the body of the "conduit" the healer who thereby places out his or her hands to direct the current of Blessed Energy into the body of the recipient. Healing of the body and the spirit are displayed in these passages:

Mark 5:21-24 - And when Jesus had crossed again in the boat to the other side, a great crowd gathered about him; and he was beside the sea. Then came one of the rulers of the synagogue, Jairus by name; and seeing him, he fell at his feet, and besought him, saying "My little daughter is at the point of death. Come and lay your hands on her, so that she may be made well, and live. And he went with him.

Acts 4:29 -And now Lord, look upon their threats, and grant to they servants to speak thy word with all boldness, while thou stretchest out thy hand to heal, and signs and wonders are performed through the name of thy holy servant, Jesus. And when they had prayed, the place in which they were gathered together was shaken; and they were all filled with the Holy Spirit and spoke the word of God with boldness.

Acts 8:18-19 - Now when the apostles at Jerusalem heard that Samaria had received the word of God, they sent to them Peter and John who came down --and prayed for them that they might receive the Holy Spirit; for it had not yet fallen on any of them, but they had only been baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus. Then they laid their hands on them and they received the Holy Spirit

Acts 28:8 - It happened that the father of Publius lay sick with fever and dysentery; and Paul visited him and prayed, and putting his hands upon him healed him.

1st Timothy 4:14 - Do not neglect the gift you have, which was given you by prophetic utterance when the elders laid their hands upon you.


Gifts of the Spirit: I Corinthians Chapter 12:1-11

St. Paul discussed at length much about gifts of the spirit:

"Now concerning spiritual gifts, brethren, I do not want you to be uninformed. You know that when you were heathen, you were led astray to dumb idols, however, you may have been moved. Therefore I want you to understand that no one speaking by the Spirit of God ever says "Jesus be cursed!" and no one can say "Jesus is Lord" except by the Holy Spirit . Now there are varieties of gifts, but the same Spirit, and there are varieties of service, but the same Lord; and there are varieties of working, but it is the same God who inspires them all in every one. To each is given the manifestation of the Spirit for the common good. To one is given through the Spirit the utterance of wisdom, and to another the utterance of knowledge according to the same Spirit, to another faith by the same Spirit, to another gifts of healing by the one Spirit, to another the working of miracles, to another prophecy, to another the ability to distinguish between spirits, to another various kinds of tongues, to another the interpretation of tongues. All these are inspired by one and the same Spirit, who apportions to each one individually as he wills."

I Corin. 12:27-30 - Now you are the body of Christ and individually members of it. And God has appointed in the church first apostles, second prophets, third teachers, then workers of miracles, then healers, helpers, administrators, speakers in various kinds of tongues. Are all apostles? Are all teachers? Do all work miracles? Do all possess gifts of healing? Do all speak with tongues? Do all interpret? But earnestly desire the higher gifts. And I will show you a still more excellent way.

Heb. 2:3-4 - It was declared at first by the Lord, and it was attested to us by those who heard him, while God also bore witness by signs and wonders and various miracles and by gifts of the Holy Spirit distributed according to his own will.

Divine Guidance, Channeling, Prophesying, and Speaking in Tongues:

Genesis 44:5 - Is it not from this that my lord drinks, and by this that he divines?

Genesis 44:14 When Judah and his brothers came to Joseph's house, he was still there; and they fell before him to the ground. Joseph said to them, "What deed is this that you have done? Do you not know that a man such as I can indeed divine?"

Exodus 7:1 - "And the Lord said to Moses, "See, I make you as God to Pharaoh; and Aaron your brother shall be your prophet. You shall speak all that I command you; and Aaron your brother shall tell Pharaoh to let the people of Israel go out of his land".

Isaiah 50:4 The Lord God has given me the tongue of those who are taught, that I may know how to sustain with a word him that is weary. Morning by morning he wakens, he wakens my ear to hear as those who are taught.

Matthew 10:19 "When they deliver you up, do not be anxious how you are to speak or what you are to say; for what you are to say will be given you in that hour, for it will not be you who speak, but the Spirit of your Father speaking through you."

Mark 13:11 "And when they bring you to trial and deliver you up, do not be anxious beforehand what you are to say; but say whatever is given you in that hour, for it is not you who speak, but the Holy Spirit".

So much is written in 1 Corinthians Chapters 12 through 14 about Gifts of the Spirit that I would recommend reading it fully. Here is a sampling of some of the passages about these gifts in particular:

1 Corinthians Chapter 12:10 To another the working of miracles; to another prophecy, to another the ability to distinguish between spirits, to another various kinds of tongues, to another the interpretation of tongues. All these are inspired by one and the same Spirit, who apportions to each one individually as he wills.

1 Corinthians 13:1 - If I speak in the tongues of men and of angels, but have not love, I am a noisy gong or a clanging cymbal. And if I have prophetic powers, and understand all mysteries, and all knowledge, and if I have all faith, so as to remove mountains, but have not love, I am nothing.

1 Corinthians Chapter 14:1 - Make love your aim, and earnestly desire the spiritual gifts, especially that you may prophesy. For one who speaks in a tongue speaks not to men, but to God; for no one understands him, but he utters mysteries in the Spirit. On the other hand, he who prophesies speaks to men for their upbuilding and encouragement and consolation. He who speaks in a tongue edifies himself, but he who prophesies edifies the church. Now I want you all to speak in tongues, but even more to prophesy. He who prophesies is greater than he who speaks in tongues, unless some one interprets, so that the church may be edified. Therefore, he who speaks in a tongue should pray for the power to interpret. For if I pray in a tongue, my spirit prays but my mind is unfruitful. What am I to do? I will pray with the spirit and I will pray wit the mind also; I will sing with the spirit and I will sing with the mind also.
1 Corinthians Chapter 14:37 - If any one thinks that he is a prophet or spiritual, he should acknowledge that what I am writing to you is a command of the Lord. If anyone does not recognize this, he is not recognized. So my brethren, earnestly desire to prophesy, and do not forbid speaking in tongues, but all things should be done decently and in order.

The Book of Revelation to John which is one entire prophecy. In this book it starts out with the first chapter saying in Verse 3 "Blessed is he who reads aloud the words of the prophecy, and blessed are those who hear, and who keep what is written therein; for the time is near."

Visions:

Genesis 15:1 - After these things the word of the Lord came to Abram in a vision, "Fear not, Abram, I am your shield; your reward shall be very great."

2 Chronicles 9:29 - Now the rest of the acts of Solomon, from first to last, are they not written in the history of Nathan the prophet, and in the prophecy of Ahijah, the Shilonite, and in the visions of Iddo the seer concerning Jeroboam the son of Nebat?

Joel 2:28 - And it shall come to pass afterward, that I will pour out my spirit on all flesh; your sons and your daughters shall prophesy; your old men shall dream dreams, and your young men shall see visions.

Habakkuk 2:2-3 - And the Lord answered me; "Write the vision; make it plain upon tablets, so he may run who reads it. For still the vision awaits its time; it hastens to the end--it will not lie.

Daniel 8:26 - The vision of the evenings and the mornings which has been told is true; but seal up the vision, for it pertains to many days hence."

Luke 24:22 - Moreover, some women of our company amazed us. They were at the tomb early in the morning and did not find his body; and they came back saying that they had even seen a vision of angels, who said that he was alive.

Acts 11:4 - But Peter began and explained to them in order: "I was in the city of Joppa praying; and in a trance I saw a vision, something descending, like a great sheet, let down from heaven by four corners; and it came down to me. Looking at it closely I observed animals and beasts of prey and reptiles and birds of the air.

Acts 16:9 - And a vision appeared to Paul in the night: a man of Macedonia was standing beseeching him and saying, "Come over to Macedonia and help us." And when he had seen the vision, immediately we sought to go on into Macedonia, concluding that God had called us to preach the gospel to them. Astral Travel:
Paul was recounting his out-of-body experience as he referred to himself as "this man".
2 Corinthians 12:1 - I must boast; there is nothing to be gained by it, but I will go on to visions and revelations of the Lord. I know a man in Christ who fourteen years ago was caught up to the third heaven--whether in the body or out of the body I do not know, God knows. And I know that this man was caught up into Paradise--whether in the body or out of the body, I do not know, God knows--and he heard things that cannot be told, which man may not utter. On behalf of this man I will boast, but on my own behalf I will not boast, except of my weaknesses.

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abikisses
06-09-2011, 04:43 PM
So show that to your priest and smoke it... ;o)

Serenity Bear
07-09-2011, 02:11 PM
Some Jehovah witnesses tried this on with me, so I studied some of the new testement for any spiritualistic wording and found it on vertially every page.

Iv also shown our 7 Principles to a lay Vicar and he said it was very close to his own beliefs. Some awful women then insulted me saying I was being guided away from the right pathway, I put on my spiritual head and told her to go look at her self (she was ex-druggie) before she spouted at me, and that I had more spirituality in my little finger then she had in her own body. They were attending a Psychic fair at the time - oh duh!