Robert Adams [Archive] - Spiritual Forums

Tara5

16-07-2019, 06:43 AM

Realize the place that you're in right now, whether you think it’s good or bad, whether you think you're happy or sad, whether you think you're rich, or poor, or sick, or healthy, the place where you're in right now is your right place. That's the beginning. You stop trying to be someone else. You stop trying to change your life. You're in your right place, right now, just the way you are. If you can become happy and peaceful in the place where you are right now, all of a sudden you will find circumstances will change in your favor, and then again you will be in your right place. Whatever change comes along as far as your body-mind is concerned, you are in your right place. The more you can see that, the more you can look at what I just said intellectually, intelligently, the more peaceful you become, the more the karmic patterns begin to break away and you begin to awaken.

It may be gradual at first. You notice that things that used to annoy you, no longer annoy you. You notice that people that you live with, the conflicts you've had, they stop because you've stopped. There's no more trying to get even. There's no more trying to win your point. There's no more trying to find the right book, or the right teacher, or the right anything. You remain centered. You remain free. :hug3:

Robert Adams

God-Like

16-07-2019, 07:55 AM

These are not (his) mere thoughts, these are the teachings of Advaita Vedanta propagated by Sri Shankara and Sri Ramana Maharshi.
Non-reaction means - not acting automatically....and becoming a watcher of your mind, emotions and actions.. :icon_sunny: All I am pointing out is that in order to practice the teachings of others one would have to react to the thought of others .
In these instances it is not an automatic response to one's thoughts arising .
One is purposefully reacting to thoughts in a specific way .
When there are teachings to not react to your thoughts, the actual opposite is occurring isn't it when one complies with another's ways / teachings / practices / thoughts .
Do you see the irony and the contradiction in it all?

x daz x

Miss Hepburn

16-07-2019, 10:55 AM

... these are the teachings of Advaita Vedanta
propagated by Sri Shankara and Sri Ramana Maharshi.Non-reaction means - not acting automatically....
and becoming a watcher of your mind, emotions and actions.. :icon_sunny:
So funny Shankara is on my list to look up...he and Ramana
(who I am VERY familiar with) were mentioned in a 2 hour youtube I have watched many times...
'Buddha at the Gas Pump' is an interview series I listen to a lot...
love having my laptop on my night stand ...click and listen to teachers for hours, ahhhh, heaven.

Daz, don't give the young lady a hard time!!!:tongue:

Keep up the good work,Tara. :icon_thumleft:

Miss Hepburn

16-07-2019, 11:02 AM

Prevent thoughts from arising, stop giving energy to your thoughts and they will fade away.
Knowledge of the Self arises when the mind is absent.
Peace.Well, after 12 years of practicing Thought Control...
I can attest to this being true.
I hardly remember the mischief my thoughts used to do!
In Christian speak...'the devil gets tired of playing with a person that he can't bother'. :tongue:

Just a cute story...I have a gorgeous Ramana book that I pull out on my shelf so I can see his face all the time.
One time I just glanced at his face and suddenly was given another one of my 'moments'...except this
altered state lasted 2 hours of being 'struck' with an awesome realization...my dog even knew, "Um...you're different..."
Whew. I love when that happens. :biggrin:

God-Like

16-07-2019, 11:18 AM

[/COLOR] Daz, don't give the young lady a hard time!!!:tongue:

Lol, Miss H, not so much a hard time but rather to just clarify what constitutes a non reactive thought based upon a thought that one should pay no attention to a thought ..

It might seem like I am picking holes into something for the sake of it, but all one has to do is look at what is suggested and then look at how one REACTS to that suggestion .

If peeps want to pay no attention to their thoughts then they pay attention to the thought of something else lol .. A one pointed focus for instance is to hold your thought upon something else in order for 'other worldly thoughts' to dissipate for use of a better word .

If you relate to what Robert adams suggests in regards to ''Do not even react to your own thoughts'' then surely one should not react to your thoughts in such a way where you focus on something else in order to make them go away lol ..

Don't shoot the messenger :tongue: .. I am just pointing out the irony / contradiction ..

Do you see them? Some peeps don't because they are soooo fixated on the thoughts of other's they get a little lost within them ..

x dazzle x

Miss Hepburn

16-07-2019, 03:29 PM

If you relate to what Robert adams suggests in regards to ''Do not even react to your own thoughts'' then surely one should not react to your thoughts in such a way where you focus on something else in order to make them go away lol ..
Don't shoot the messenger :tongue: .. I am just pointing out the irony / contradiction ..

Do you see them? Some peeps don't because they are soooo fixated on the thoughts of other's they get a little lost within them ..
Gosh, Robert's words seemed so simple and sweet...I was getting lost in his thoughts...
just like you said...a little wonderland of such simplicity and wisdom. :icon_cool:

Tara5

16-07-2019, 05:12 PM

I am just pointing out the irony / contradiction .. I live from my heart space and his teachings touch my heart deeply.....so, i can't find any contradictions in his words..:hug3:
Thanks for sharing your valuable insights with us. I greatly appreciate it. :love10:

Tara5

16-07-2019, 05:22 PM

Just a cute story...I have a gorgeous Ramana book that I pull out on my shelf so I can see his face all the time.
One time I just glanced at his face and suddenly was given another one of my 'moments'...except this
altered state lasted 2 hours of being 'struck' with an awesome realization...my dog even knew, "Um...you're different..."
Whew. I love when that happens. :biggrin:
What an amazing and profoundly beautiful experience :hug3: Master's grace :love2:
I had a vision of Ramana in my dream and since then everything changed. :icon_sunny:

Miss Hepburn

16-07-2019, 05:49 PM

What an amazing and profoundly beautiful experience :hug3: Master's grace :love2:
I had a vision of Ramana in my dream and since then everything changed. :icon_sunny:I know, right!!!? Dreams!!!
I counsel people often...I tell them anything can happen ...one dream can change everything with your mean boss.

Ok u pulled my arm...so this medium woman extraordinaire ...wanted to meet with me to help her with her boss...short version ...
I said, Believe he will change...ANYthing could change him in ONE day, overnight...
as in, a dream, he could see a terrible accident, just anything...but believe.
She is a powerful lady...NEXT morn she is called into his office...he is all smiles praising her...
Wow, on this one! :wink:

Tara5

17-07-2019, 03:32 AM

:happy7:
https://i.postimg.cc/v8SsVr3y/66857610-10214101621404087-6505312111114059776-n.jpg (https://postimages.org/)

Unseeking Seeker

17-07-2019, 04:25 AM

***

Feeling presence of innocence
In fragmented thoughts absence
The flowing rippleless stillness
Of divine entwined being-ness
Transmutation by magnetism
Bridging all illusionary chasms
In being becoming & blossoming
In tandem with divine love pulsating

Within

***

Tara5

17-07-2019, 07:18 AM

Unseeking Seeker

17-07-2019, 07:53 AM

The song of silence! These kinda songs come from the Unknown :hug3:

You wrote it, right? :wav:

***

I did indeed write it even though it was not written by me :smile:

***

God-Like

17-07-2019, 08:35 AM

Gosh, Robert's words seemed so simple and sweet...I was getting lost in his thoughts...
just like you said...a little wonderland of such simplicity and wisdom. :icon_cool: Um, I think I now want to shoot the messenger...

This happens a lot, but it serves it's purpose, just like any teachings really . It doesn't matter if it's biblical teachings or non duality teachings because at some point most will question them when they have specific realizations and then they will see through them for what they are .

While someone has made an attachment to the teachings it's possible to be so entrenched in them they fail to see beyond them .

I am often seen to be the bad guy when I point things out that don't make sense or only make sense from one perspective like when adams speaks about the world being a dream and that I am is not the body and such likes . I could break down the flaws in all of these statements but most don't want to hear what I have to say because it will cause a reaction within them that will result in them questioning their devotion to their teachers .

That is their lesson either way, to be attached to something not yet realized, to blindly believe in another and perhaps live life in denial or try and emulate another's point of view by trying to walk in their shoes .

In one respect it is a very dangerous game holding onto another's perspective and try and make it their own .. I have seen that in effect and it mainly ends in disappointment, but again, that is in part, the lesson .

I was having a chat with someone the other day where niz came up and niz said that there is only how you see things, it is neither right or wrong, it is just a favoured perspective .. So perhaps one should bear that in mind when one believes in the words of another and live their life in reflection of those words ..

Then one will see that their devotion is perhaps misplaced .

I had this the other month where Tolle followers were blinded by his actions and words .. it is common for there are those that are born to follow and those that are born to lead .. Each to their own on that score ..

x daz x

Uday_Advaita

17-07-2019, 08:55 AM

Tara5

17-07-2019, 04:57 PM

While someone has made an attachment to the teachings it's possible to be so entrenched in them they fail to see beyond them .

But, I'm not attached to him or any other master. I have got a great thirst for TRUTH. I have walked down many paths....I began reading Osho (when i was a young girl) then went through J.Krishnamurti, Thich Nhat Hanh, Eckhart Tolle and don't know how many others, attended silent Vipassana meditation retreats...and got more and more disillusioned.. but self-inquiry(atma-vichara) allowed me to go deep inside myself...allowed me to see the Truth..:smile:

I had this the other month where Tolle followers were blinded by his actions and words
x daz x

His actions and words?
There is no ownership of Truth.
Truth is one, paths/teachers are many.. What is Tolle's is everybody's....

Tara5

18-07-2019, 03:57 AM

Once there was a Zen monk who got angry every now and again. He would argue with his fellow monks and was always looking for something wrong to complain and whine about, and always telling others his troubles. A fellow monk told him to go see the roshi and ask for help. The roshi lived two miles down the road. He explained his problem to the roshi, who said, “Take my staff, and hold on to it. Whenever you get angry my staff will remind you to come to me and that will get rid of your anger for you.”

The monk returned to his quarters and soon became very angry at another monk. He looked at the staff, and remembered the roshi, and he jogged the two miles all the way. The roshi asked, “What is wrong?” The monk replied, “I got angry.” The roshi said, “Show me your anger.” But in the jogging the anger went away. He had nothing to show, and said, “I am not angry right now.” The roshi said, “Go back to your quarters, and when you get angry again come and tell me about it.” The next day he got angry again. He ran to the roshi and the same thing happened, his anger disappeared. This went on about twenty-five times.

Finally, the roshi said, “I'll tell you what to do now. When you get back to your quarters take my staff. When you get angry beat the living hell out of your anger with it.” This was so funny to the monk that he became realized. He became enlightened. He realized he would be using the staff to beat himself, and that his real self could never get angry. It was his body that appeared to be angry. He had run back and forth twenty-five times and the answer the roshi gave him made him open his eyes and become enlightened.

So it is with us. Do not look at your problem as a problem. Look at it as a no-thing. It does not exist. If your ego does not exist, if your body does not exist, if your mind does not exist, how can you be angry? Where would it come from? Who gave it birth? This is true of any other problem you believe you have. Just watch it. It will disappear, and you will awaken to your true self.

Robert Adams

God-Like

18-07-2019, 07:27 AM

But, I'm not attached to him or any other master. I have got a great thirst for TRUTH. I have walked down many paths....I began reading Osho (when i was a young girl) then went through J.Krishnamurti, Thich Nhat Hanh, Eckhart Tolle and don't know how many others, attended silent Vipassana meditation retreats...and got more and more disillusioned.. but self-inquiry(atma-vichara) allowed me to go deep inside myself...allowed me to see the Truth..:smile:

His actions and words?
There is no ownership of Truth.
Truth is one, paths/teachers are many.. What is Tolle's is everybody's.... I can understand that certain people at a certain stage have a thirst for TRUTH as you put it . I certainly did and I turned within and spent many years understanding myself, the mind and such likes and realizing the sameness and the differences that relate to them and their absence .

I am glad you have entertained self enquiry and not relied solely on the teachings of others ..
So what truth have you seen? Does this truth mirror what all teachers say or just a few?
Have you realized both sides of the coin for instance?
I mean it is easy to say I am not the body like Adams suggests but another teacher will say you are the body and you are also not the body .
Some teachers, teach one side of the coin because they have only realized one side ..

What then happens is there is resonation had with certain teachers because there is similar realizations had, but it's not the whole story .
What is misleading is when a student / seeker has had no experience for themselves they then believe in a one sided story to be the whole truth .

It can be a form of brainwashing, what is to be taken into consideration also is that many well known teachers have spent many years studying the scriptures and other material which is fine to a degree, but where would they be without them .
What one needs to ask themselves is what is actually realized and what is not .
You will find that there is plenty that is written by teachers that is not realized ..

x daz x

Tara5

18-07-2019, 08:34 AM

So what truth have you seen? Does this truth mirror what all teachers say or just a few?
That I am more than my physical body, my thoughts and my emotions.....I'm absolute freedom beneath the confinement...(not bookish knowledge, but my Truth)

I mean it is easy to say I am not the body like Adams suggests .
When he says, i'm not the body, it means don't Identify with your body...remain a watcher...
You will find that there is plenty that is written by teachers that is not realized
don't know about other teachers but i'm one hundred percent sure that Robert Adams and Sri Ramana Maharshi are gyani (realized beings) :smile:

God-Like

18-07-2019, 08:53 AM

That I am more than my physical body, my thoughts and my emotions.....I'm absolute freedom beneath the confinement...(not bookish knowledge, but my Truth)

When he says, i'm not the body, it means don't Identify with your body...remain a watcher...

don't know about other teachers but i'm one hundred percent sure that Robert Adams and Sri Ramana Maharshi are gyani (realized beings) :smile:

When Adams say's I am not the body, nor this world, nor have I got anything to do with this world or this body is saying I am not the body lol .

Sure we can all try and watch our thoughts and such likes and have an awareness from that perspective, but what does that prove?

All it proves is that our awareness can entertain many vantage points so to speak, it doesn't mean that we are not the body or our thoughts .

Whose body is it? Whose thoughts are whose thoughts?

How can you watch your thoughts and distance oneself from one's thoughts when they are your thoughts .. lol

There are many teachers that try and distance what they are from the mind-body and this is the one sided coin realization I have spoken about .

In regards to spiritual teachers, i am sure there are many that are Self realized . What I said however is that there is plenty that is written by teachers that is not realized ..

This means that a teacher that writes about Consciousness being this and not that, life is but a dream, I am not the body and such likes is not realized . It is a favoured perspective had that mind conjures up in order to make sense of their reality, their truth/s .

Do you understand this?

Do you understand that Self realization does not reveal the inner workings of the universe? Do you understand that Self realization doesn't reveal that life is but a dream .

If you disagree with what I propose then please explain how 'being what you are' beyond the mind reveals anything about self and this world reality ..

This is what I mean when I say that the material in all these books and scriptures were not 'actually' realized .

You could perhaps for arguments sake write about Self realization on a postage stamp .

x daz x

Tara5

18-07-2019, 05:17 PM

How can you watch your thoughts and distance oneself from one's thoughts when they are your thoughts .. lol
something in you- observes your thoughts (and obviously that something is not your thoughts), otherwise, how can you report it ?

Thoughts come, stay and go but it isn't YOU that comes and goes with your thoughts....Something is aware of COMING staying and Going.... Who is he? Because of Self/Consciousness/Awareness thinking is known to be happening. And that Awareness is like empty space or screen upon which everything is seen...coming going everything...Go inwards

Mooji says - 'You want to taste the honey, you don't want to be the honey'. What is this honey? It is the satchidananda state—the perfume of the Self experienced as existence, consciousness and bliss.

Peace

Miss Hepburn

18-07-2019, 10:31 PM

Tara5

19-07-2019, 04:19 AM

There are no problems. They're just experiences. And if you look at the experience in the right way you will transcend that experience and become free of it totally and completely. But if you react in the wrong way to the problem so-called, you may win or find a solution but you will have to go through another problem of a similar state sooner or later. You will have to go through it again and again and again until you transcend it completely by not reacting to it. This is an important point to remember.

Your problem is at a certain level. A certain level of mind. If you believe in your problem, if you're fearful of your problem, if you react to your problem you have not broken out of that level. Even though you may appear to come up with some kind of solution, you are still at that level of consciousness where the problem exists. Therefore you will have to go through it again and again and again. The idea in other words is to rise higher than the problem. To rise higher than the problem. For the problem is below you, beneath you and you are free of it completely.

Robert Adams

God-Like

19-07-2019, 07:00 AM

something in you- observes your thoughts (and obviously that something is not your thoughts), otherwise, how can you report it ?

Thoughts come, stay and go but it isn't YOU that comes and goes with your thoughts....Something is aware of COMING staying and Going.... Who is he? Because of Self/Consciousness/Awareness thinking is known to be happening. And that Awareness is like empty space or screen upon which everything is seen...coming going everything...Go inwards

Mooji says - 'You want to taste the honey, you don't want to be the honey'. What is this honey? It is the satchidananda state—the perfume of the Self experienced as existence, consciousness and bliss.

Peace

The same something in you that observes your thoughts is the same something in you that creates the thoughts .

You can't divide one from the other because there is only what you are .

Try observing your thoughts when what you are is absent from the mind-body .

You won't be able to because what you are of the mind-body is a package deal .

There requires self to witness and observe .

As Ramana put it across Pure awareness becomes self-awareness. When there is a Self, self-awareness is the witness. When there is no self to witness, there is no witnessing either.

Now what you are suggesting here is that you can observe your thoughts in a way where you are not your thoughts .. It is incorrect because like said without self being present there would be no thoughts to watch .. and self is what you are . There is only what you are .. There is no divide .. There is nothing that what you are isn't .

This is two sides of the coin . Saying I am not the world, I have nothing to do with the body is a one sided perspective and it isn't the whole story .

Whose thoughts are they that you are watching?

What else is there present that is not what you are that can conjure up a thought about the weather?

Can you answer me this?

x daz x

God-Like

19-07-2019, 07:14 AM

:sign10: think one more time...we are fearless and badass :tongue: :tongue:

Now looking through my closet for my wrestling costume :icon_eek: :biggrin:

x daz x

Tara5

19-07-2019, 08:15 AM

The same something in you that observes your thoughts is the same something in you that creates the thoughts .

You can't divide one from the other because there is only what you are .

Try observing your thoughts when what you are is absent from the mind-body .

You won't be able to because what you are of the mind-body is a package deal

Yes, there is only ONE, the consciousness. But consciousness creates duality coz consciousness only experience creations in nonduality..that's why it is called Leela, Maya, divine-play, a dream of the Brahman.

And, Consciousness created duality because NOTHING wants to taste SoMETHING, immaterial want to be the material...

A painter paints a painting, is Painter and painting same?

Of course, thoughts originate from the Consciousness but are the thoughts and consciousness the same?

Maybe you are right and maybe i am wrong...and, it's Okay! To each his own!

Tara5

19-07-2019, 08:20 AM

Now looking through my closet for my wrestling costume :icon_eek: :biggrin:

x daz x

But you already are a warrior...see, you are wearing a warbonnet of Native Americans :tongue: :tongue: and it's beautiful...suits you :tongue:

God-Like

19-07-2019, 09:18 AM

Yes, there is only ONE, the consciousness. But consciousness creates duality coz consciousness only experience creations in nonduality..that's why it is called Leela, Maya, divine-play, a dream of the Brahman.

And, Consciousness created duality because NOTHING wants to taste SoMETHING, immaterial want to be the material...

A painter paints a painting, is Painter and painting same?

Of course, thoughts originate from the Consciousness but are the thoughts and consciousness the same?

Maybe you are right and maybe i am wrong...and, it's Okay! To each his own!

If you believe in 'oneness' then the thoughts cannot be associated with anything but the 'one' .

How can the thoughts belong to something other than what you are?

How can there be truth in saying that I have nothing to do with the world or this body .

This actual statement is build upon separation and illusion ..

Can you see that?

x daz x

Miss Hepburn

19-07-2019, 09:25 AM

It's so funny... you have Consciousness and then you have Awareness.
Oh boy...that has been talked about here before.
And I was impressed, Tara, you said Consciousness creates duality.
You don't hear that everyday.
Ya gotta have 'another...something' to be conscious OF! Yes.
Lol!

I have been in the Void....and OH my....there IS NO Other!
I mean when they say Nothing or Nothingness....or a Vacuum...
They aren't a' kiddin' ! There is no up, there is no down....
There is nothing but The One.....and that means you...there is
just One....only....completely....just Awareness...that's It...
and that's you. Whew.

I came outta that place understanding exactly why The Absolute One
created 'Creation' !
Why be alone? One Mind...only One...in a place of no time or space..
oh if everyone could exp this...

There is Nothing but Pure Awareness, period...black...there's no light...
and Mind...that is aware....but there's nothing.

This Awareness....just is....not too hard to talk about. Ha!

As you can see I'm like tripping over myself :tongue:...it's quite ...well, shocking,
a shocking... eye-opening experience.

Unseeking Seeker

19-07-2019, 10:01 AM

Miss Hepburn

19-07-2019, 10:14 AM

The vibrant void of fullness
Not emptiness
Of Absoluteness
Of singular pure awareness

Breathing
Pulsating
With exalted Love of purity
Which here & now too is our divinity
Hmm...not my exp.
No breathing, no pulsating, empty so totally, not vibrant.
Yes, singular Pure Awareness...of nothing, no fullness.

We will have to disagree to disagree on this one...get it... One!:tongue:

Unseeking Seeker

19-07-2019, 10:25 AM

Hmm...not my exp.
No breathing, no pulsating, empty so totally, not vibrant.
Yes, singular Pure Awareness...of nothing, no fullness.

We will have to disagree to disagree on this one...get it... One!:tongue:

***

First time the void of nothingness
wherein one with the That Oneness
we are as (but not The) Absoluteness

Second time the veil lifts to reveal
The Supreme being

Thereafter the void of seeming nothingness
Is known as charged with purity of Love in fullness
Be it beyond form or within form, no coming, no going
There is yet in perfection, being, becoming & blossoming

In a flow unending

***

Tara5

19-07-2019, 05:11 PM

If you believe in 'oneness' then the thoughts cannot be associated with anything but the 'one' .

How can the thoughts belong to something other than what you are?

How can there be truth in saying that I have nothing to do with the world or this body .

This actual statement is build upon separation and illusion ..

Can you see that?

x daz x

I think we are going around in circles - but going nowhere....Let's agree to disagree :love10: :icon_flower:

Tara5

19-07-2019, 05:19 PM

I have been in the Void....and OH my....there IS NO Other!
I mean when they say Nothing or Nothingness....or a Vacuum...
They aren't a' kiddin' ! There is no up, there is no down....
There is nothing but The One.....and that means you...there is
just One....only....completely....just Awareness...that's It...
and that's you. Whew.

I came outta that place understanding exactly why The Absolute One
created 'Creation' !

Oh, that reminds me of a story....

The Play of Energy

Before the Universe was created, it is believed that there was just darkness. That darkness pervaded everywhere. It was the raw energy, an energy with its own consciousness, hence, it is called the cosmic intelligence. The culture named it as ‘Shakti’. Though the Shakti was all-pervading, but it was uncontrolled. Thus, nothing formed out of it and the energy remained raw throughout.

Within that play of Shakti, a point came when there was a super-saturation of the energy leading to a massive explosion — which science identifies as the ‘Big Bang’. What happened at that time?

The Controlled Manifestations
The Yogis explained — at the very moment of the massive bang the Shakti (the single conscious energy) manifested into two. One part is the consciousness and the other is the matter. Yes, even the matter, the non-living elements, all came out from the same energy. In this way the uncontrolled Shakti manifested into different creations due to the presence of that control, which the Yogis named as ‘Shiva’. This is why, in the Indian culture, they are revered as a couple. Because, without Shakti, the control (Shiva) is of no significance; and without the Shiva the uncontrolled Shakti cannot be manifested into anything.

This could be understood with an example. Today, we see a thousand electric appliances that are useful to us. They all use the same electricity. But, is the raw electricity of any use to us? No. Only when the raw electric energy (Shakti) is controlled (Shiva), we get the amazing creations that we can use. This concept of Shiva and Shakti is applicable to every aspect of this Universe:hug3: .

iamthat

19-07-2019, 06:08 PM

Oh, that reminds me of a story....

The Play of Energy

Before the Universe was created, it is believed that there was just darkness. That darkness pervaded everywhere. It was the raw energy, an energy with its own consciousness, hence, it is called the cosmic intelligence. The culture named it as ‘Shakti’. Though the Shakti was all-pervading, but it was uncontrolled. Thus, nothing formed out of it and the energy remained raw throughout.

Within that play of Shakti, a point came when there was a super-saturation of the energy leading to a massive explosion — which science identifies as the ‘Big Bang’. What happened at that time?

The Controlled Manifestations
The Yogis explained — at the very moment of the massive bang the Shakti (the single conscious energy) manifested into two. One part is the consciousness and the other is the matter. Yes, even the matter, the non-living elements, all came out from the same energy. In this way the uncontrolled Shakti manifested into different creations due to the presence of that control, which the Yogis named as ‘Shiva’. This is why, in the Indian culture, they are revered as a couple. Because, without Shakti, the control (Shiva) is of no significance; and without the Shiva the uncontrolled Shakti cannot be manifested into anything.

This could be understood with an example. Today, we see a thousand electric appliances that are useful to us. They all use the same electricity. But, is the raw electricity of any use to us? No. Only when the raw electric energy (Shakti) is controlled (Shiva), we get the amazing creations that we can use. This concept of Shiva and Shakti is applicable to every aspect of this Universe:hug3: .

Different people use different terms to describe this. So we could say that the Absolute is beyond even Light and Dark, energy and consciousness. The Absolute manifests as Purusha (Spirit) and Mulaprakriti (primordial Matter). Spirit is considered as the Father principle (Shiva) and Matter is considered as the Mother principle (Shakti). The Father principle provides Purpose, the Mother principle provides Intelligence, and the combination of Spirit and Matter produces Consciousness.

We are all trying to explain the unexplainable.

Peace.

Tara5

20-07-2019, 03:56 AM

Different people use different terms to describe this. So we could say that the Absolute is beyond even Light and Dark, energy and consciousness. The Absolute manifests as Purusha (Spirit) and Mulaprakriti (primordial Matter). Spirit is considered as the Father principle (Shiva) and Matter is considered as the Mother principle (Shakti). The Father principle provides Purpose, the Mother principle provides Intelligence, and the combination of Spirit and Matter produces Consciousness.
In the Bhagvad Gita, Lord Krishna talks about Prakriti and Purusha!

We are all trying to explain the unexplainable.
Peace.

yes, coz language has its own limitations.
And, something that cannot be defined in words - is Self/Consciousness.

Tara5

20-07-2019, 04:04 AM

When you understand what I'm saying intellectually you will begin to leave people alone and shut up. You will not have anything to say because you will begin to see it's fruitless to debate. It's fruitless to argue. It's fruitless to come to any conclusions about anybody or anything. For everything is unfolding as it should. Everything is in its right place no matter how it looks. As we unfold on this path our job is to watch, to look, to see, never to react. Only to be the witness. Having no opinions for or against.

Robert Adams

muffin

21-07-2019, 12:57 AM

If you believe in 'oneness' then the thoughts cannot be associated with anything but the 'one' .
How can the thoughts belong to something other than what you are?
How can there be truth in saying that I have nothing to do with the world or this body .
This actual statement is build upon separation and illusion ..
Can you see that? Good afternoon daz :smile:
Hope your staying out of trouble, well maybe not in this thread :biggrin:
A statement is one thing, doing is another and each holds it's own truth :wink:

Tara5

21-07-2019, 04:45 AM

They are tough because I don't want you to take the words of other's literally or as the whole truth especially when my questions cause concern for what certain teachers say .
I'm not someone who hears other's words and take them as truth.
On the contrary, I'm very sceptical, when it comes to spiritual teachers..
But Ramana and Robert are different...
Their teachings resonate with my TRUTH, and not vice versa.

I would guess that even the teachers would spit out their cornflakes if I counter question their realisations ..
Aren't these statements coming from the ego? #Justasking

Normally I do get avoidance of answering questions or the subject changes or peeps get a little narky and defensive lol .

I appreciate you saying you don't know the answer/s to my questions, it has more to do with that rather than we should agree to disagree .
I don't know EVERYthing - and it's okay!
Inner mysteries are available to Serious-Seekers only, who risk everything for the truth.

I hope it gives you a little food for thought rather than anything else and hopefully you don't put too much faith in what you read even if it touches your heart .. :hug3:
x daz x

I really appreciate the time and effort you have spent to share your insightful comments :hug3: Thank you so much :notworthy:

Tara5

21-07-2019, 05:02 AM

This is something you must remember. When you are perfectly calm, time stops. When there is no time, karma stops, samskaras stop. Everything becomes null and void. For when you are calm you are one with the entire energy of the universe and everything will go well with you.:hug3:

Robert Adams

Tara5

21-07-2019, 05:36 PM

Their teachings however quite possibly are the teachings of other’s infused, Adams sought teachings and understandings from perhaps a dozen other teacher’s / guru’s who were perhaps equally taught by other’s and so forth .. paper .
Agree, Robert met many teachers, Paramahansa Yogananda, Nisargadatta, Ananda Mai Ma, Neem karoli baba and Ramana Maharshi.

Robert devoted himself to teach ramana's teachings back home...

Certain mystical secrets can not be taught publicly,.... a master passes those teachings on to his best disciples....And, the path of the truth is arduous, so, sometimes, a guru is required...

The ego or non ego teachings is another red flag to me at times where teachers that promote non ego attachments don’t normally see their own reflection in their actions ..

ego isn't the bad guy .

x daz x

Yes, the ego is not a bad guy and, neither are you :laughing11: :tongue:

Ok, tell me, what exactly is the ego and why it's not a bad guy?

Miss Hepburn

21-07-2019, 06:22 PM

I didn't know Robert was passed...or anything about him.
A nice website of his quotes. :smile:

https://www.azquotes.com/author/97-Robert_Adams

Tara5

22-07-2019, 03:12 AM

I didn't know Robert was passed...or anything about him.
A nice website of his quotes. :smile:

https://www.azquotes.com/author/97-Robert_Adams

Yes, Robert left the body in 1997...

If you are interested in learning more about his teachings, visit this website for free eBook :icon_study: https://www.holybooks.com/robert-adams-just-the-satsangs/

And, thanks for the link....GREATLY appreciate your efforts! :icon_thumleft: :love10:

Tara5

22-07-2019, 03:21 AM

"Deep down in your heart know that all is well. Understand that the Universe is your friend and can never hurt you. It is the substratum of all existence which is love! When you develop a loving consciousness there can be no problems.

Love takes care of everything. Love is the same as absolute awareness, pure intelligence, or the power of God. When you have enough love inside, there are truly no problems. Problems only arise when you believe you are separate and lacking love." :hug3:

Robert Adams

God-Like

22-07-2019, 08:07 AM

Agree, Robert met many teachers, Paramahansa Yogananda, Nisargadatta, Ananda Mai Ma, Neem karoli baba and Ramana Maharshi.

Robert devoted himself to teach ramana's teachings back home...

Certain mystical secrets can not be taught publicly,.... a master passes those teachings on to his best disciples....And, the path of the truth is arduous, so, sometimes, a guru is required...

Yes, the ego is not a bad guy and, neither are you :laughing11: :tongue:

Ok, tell me, what exactly is the ego and why it's not a bad guy?

So when there is a history of acquired knowledge and teachings of other's and such teachings one holds so dear that they become devoted to spread the word, whose teaching's are whose? Whose direct knowledge is whose?

I am only pointing out that the scriptures were studied by many a master / guru / teacher and trying to illustrate / decipher what is self realized and what is not .

So when anyone becomes devoted to another teacher or guru they need to be clear where their devotion lies .

Even jesus supposedly studied the scriptures prior to teaching other's about the lord .

I am however not implying that learning the teachings of other's is a bad thing for there is nothing wrong with educating oneself .

I am as many have gathered more interested in the origin of the teachings that have been passed down the line .

In regards to the ego as I see it I relate to self awareness as the ego . There cannot be a sense of oneself without it .

I only know this because of there at one point being no sense of myself as many teachers would say when you are dissolved for use of a better word into 'being' for there is no 'you' ..

What has morphed somewhat in regards to ego people seem to only relate to the expression of ego and not ego itself and then associate a particular ego expression as something to get rid of or destroy lol .

It's actually the same ego expression that puts forward the notion that ego is bad or needs to be destroyed lol ..

So in this regard one needs to destroy the expression that emphasises the need to destroy the ego ..

Its a funny old game for sure . So many ironies and contradictions I am afraid to say .

Some people see them, some people don't ..

x daz x

Tara5

22-07-2019, 05:18 PM

So when there is a history of acquired knowledge and teachings of other's and such teachings one holds so dear that they become devoted to spread the word, whose teaching's are whose? Whose direct knowledge is whose?

Robert Adams was a self-realized master like Ramana....Robert was awakened at the age of 14, he was 17 years old when he first met Ramana...He travelled all the way to India to meet with Ramana for confirmation of his experience.

If someone doesn't have experiential glimpses of Truth, they can't understand Advaita Vedanta in principle... :smile: :icon_study:

In regards to the ego as I see it I relate to self awareness as the ego

relate to self awareness as the ego-----What does it mean? :confused1:

There cannot be a sense of oneself without it .

I am afraid I don't agree with you. :nono:

iamthat

22-07-2019, 08:06 PM

Some people study the teachings of others without ever having direct realisation for themselves. They may spread the teachings, acting as a signpost without ever having been to the destination.

Others have direct realisation without any such study. They suddenly find themselves at the destination with no idea how they arrived there. So they say that anyone can do the same thing, but while they can provide descriptions of the destination they cannot offer directions on how to reach there. This is a weakness of some of the current neo-Advaitists - all they can say is do nothing.

Or others may study teachings, have direct realisation and continue studying the teachings of others. If they choose to spread any teachings it is based on their own realisation and the teachings which support what they know to be true. And yet, what worked for them may not work for someone else.

We each travel our own route. For some it may involve years of practices, for others realisation may simply happen out of the blue. We have to assume that such things are not random, and (assuming reincarnation is a fact) realisation comes to those who are ready based on past development.

Regarding the ego, I distinguish between ego as individualised consciousness and ego as identification with the personal self. We may let go of identification with the personal self and know that we are not the doer, but individualised consciousness remains - i.e. we continue to express ourself through a particular vehicle even while knowing the Self to be all things.

Peace.

Unseeking Seeker

23-07-2019, 02:53 AM

***

So many different interpretations of ego! :smile:

All valid from the point of usage by the ego concerned!! :biggrin:

Now that we are on this topic, I may as well join in. Ego, to me is simply the delusional belief that our individuality ... the label we give to ourselves as a separateness in form from all ... is the truth ... disregarding oneness or interconnectedness. The ‘I’ as in I-Me-Myself. Now, even when we theorise through vicarious knowledge that ‘Oh! We are the soul (whatever that means) or there is God (whatever that is) or we are all one (but unable to feel what this means)’, we, wearing the boots of the ego are merely shifting the i-dentity for a ‘feel-good factor’ to another imagined thought construct.

An awakened consciousness is the one which has had a direct experience of a profoundly spiritual nature in an unmistakable way that requires no validation from anyone, wherein there is a direct knowing by connecting and so feeling as in really feeeeeling within, that we are all interconnected and divine love* (* unconditional, non-judgmental, non-calculating, all embracing, incessantly outpouring) is the highest energy ... omnipresent and all embracing. There is then, after such experience/s, a shift in the fulcrum of our consciousness. Our very reflex instinct shifts in thought, word & deed.

The enlightened consciousness is in an unbroken continuum of such divine connectedness. We then recognise ourselves as a vibrational consciousness in temporary occupation of form, with fulcrum of our flowing attention always in absolute formless oneness awareness or we may say, Universal consciousness.

The impact of divine connectedness manifests love as shifting its colourations or manifestations transiting from bubbling joy to ineffable bliss to compassion and then to purity ... purity being total alignment of consciousness whether its attention is at that instant in duality (external) or in non-duality (internal) from an actionable perspective.

Sorry if I’ve momentarily diverted the topic of this beautiful thread. Ah, The ‘I’ surfaces yet again! :smile:

***

Tara5

23-07-2019, 05:22 AM

So they say that anyone can do the same thing, but while they can provide descriptions of the destination they cannot offer directions on how to reach there. This is a weakness of some of the current neo-Advaitists - all they can say is do nothing.

Like J Krishnamurti used to say: there is no need for a master or a technique...but JK himself needed theosophists Annie Besant.

To realize the inner Truth, Sadhana (either this life or past lives) is needed.

We each travel our own route. For some it may involve years of practices, for others realisation may simply happen out of the blue. We have to assume that such things are not random, and (assuming reincarnation is a fact) realisation comes to those who are ready based on past development.

That's my point exactly.:smile:

Regarding the ego, I distinguish between ego as individualised consciousness and ego as identification with the personal self. We may let go of identification with the personal self and know that we are not the doer, but individualised consciousness remains - i.e. we continue to express ourself through a particular vehicle even while knowing the Self to be all things.

Peace.

i agree completely...thanks :smile:

Tara5

23-07-2019, 05:38 AM

***
Now that we are on this topic, I may as well join in.
Come, come, whoever you are. Wanderer, worshiper, lover of leaving. It doesn't matter. Ours is not a caravan of despair. come, even if you have broken your vows a thousand times. Come, yet again , come , come. :biggrin: (Rumi)

Ego, to me is simply the delusional belief that our individuality ... the label we give to ourselves as a separateness in form from all ... is the truth ... disregarding oneness or interconnectedness. The ‘I’ as in I-Me-Myself.
Completely agree :smile:

Sorry if I’ve momentarily diverted the topic of this beautiful thread.
No diversions...only lessons... :smile: This thread belongs to everyone.

Ah, The ‘I’ surfaces yet again! :smile:

***
Ah, language and its limitations. :biggrin:
Thank you for your valuable input...

Tara5

23-07-2019, 05:44 AM

Most of us are not satisﬁed with our lives and we try to improve our lives and what do we do? We try to improve everything external to ourselves, and this can never be done. We try to change our environment, meet certain people, do certain things and we think this will make us happy. But it only lasts for a short time doesn't it? And you're back to what you were before. This world can never make you happy, it's impossible. It may appear to make you happy for a while because you're gaining something that you want. But it will only last a short time. True happiness comes from nothing. When your happiness arises from nothingness then you're really happy, because nothing made you happy and nothing can take it away. If something makes you happy then if something takes it away you will be miserable. But if you learn to achieve happiness from nothing, this is everlasting. It will never leave you because there is nothing to change.:hug3:

Robert Adams

God-Like

23-07-2019, 07:28 AM

Robert Adams was a self-realized master like Ramana....Robert was awakened at the age of 14, he was 17 years old when he first met Ramana...He travelled all the way to India to meet with Ramana for confirmation of his experience.

If someone doesn't have experiential glimpses of Truth, they can't understand Advaita Vedanta in principle... :smile: :icon_study:

relate to self awareness as the ego-----What does it mean? :confused1:

I am afraid I don't agree with you. :nono:

Why would a Self realized master need to understand and study concepts of the mind .

I understand that there at times requires a little confirmation, my mum was my master in my life and she was a guide to my realizations . She didn't study the scriptures and neither have I .

What is there to know post realzation? What is there to learn?

Again, let me say that whose knowledge is whose?

Where has the knowledge come from?

In regards to self awareness as the ego, for examples sake, you observe the candle . You are aware of the candle . You are aware of the candle because you are self aware . You are aware of a candle as a candle and not a lemon because you have already self identified what you relate yourself to being and what the candle is .

This process of self awareness is ego based .

You say that you don't agree with my thoughts in that there cannot be a sense of oneself without it .

Can you give me an example of how you can have a sense of yourself without ego .

x daz x

iamthat

23-07-2019, 07:27 PM

Why would a Self realized master need to understand and study concepts of the mind .

What is there to know post realization? What is there to learn?

x daz x

Maybe it is not about understanding and studying concepts of the mind, but more about understanding the nature of the mind. We all have to deal with our minds, and gradually we discover that the mind is a terrible master but is also a useful servant. Much of our journey is spent learning to use the mind as a tool, just as we use the physical body to function effectively in the world. Then we embark on the difficult process of stopping the incessant mental chatter.

If a Self-realised Master chooses to teach others, then those people will be dealing with their own minds. If the Self-realised Master knows the nature of his/her own mind, then that Master understands the nature of other people's minds.

What is there to learn after realisation? In one sense, nothing. No knowledge can add to the Self. In another sense, everything. Learning about the Creation we live in is a never-ending mental adventure. We each have a mind - let us use it. There is value in developing our capacity for abstract thought, but this is itself a stepping stone towards the development of intuition or direct knowledge.

Peace.

Tara5

24-07-2019, 05:29 AM

Why would a Self realized master need to understand and study concepts of the mind .

I'd like to share with you an incident from Robert Adams's Life : Robert stated, "From the very beginning, as far back as I can remember, when I was in my crib a little man with a gray beard and white hair used to appear before me at the other end of the crib, about two feet tall, and speak gibberish to me."

he had had visions of a white haired, bearded man seated at the foot of his bed, who was about two feet tall, and who used to talk to him in a language which he did not understand. He told his parents but they thought he was playing games. He would later find out that this man was a vision of his future guru Sri Ramana Maharshi.

So, Robert didn't go to Ramana to study the concepts of the mind.

I my mum was my master in my life and she was a guide to my realizations . She didn't study the scriptures and neither have I .

Wow, lucky you!:hug3:
I'm curious to know more about your mom :love10:

What is there to know post realzation? What is there to learn?
Nothing...But, as we know, Maya (illusion) is sometimes more powerful than the Self...Maya constantly pushes us back from progressing spiritually...
So, Sangha or Satsang (The term Satsang is coined from the Sanskrit language, with sat meaning "the absolute truth" and sang meaning " company of seekers or saints...Gathering of the Truth/Oneness) is considered very important - to spend time with a group-of-same is absolutely important to help us ascend and grow

In regards to self awareness as the ego, for examples sake, you observe the candle . You are aware of the candle . You are aware of the candle because you are self aware . You are aware of a candle as a candle and not a lemon because you have already self identified what you relate yourself to being and what the candle is .

This process of self awareness is ego based .

Can i observe the candle without the Me?
Yes!
I can observe the candle without any 'past knowledge'...without Naming it..
watching becomes an ego-based process when we Watch with a Conditioned-Mind....

Can you give me an example of how you can have a sense of yourself without ego .x daz x
I know I Am, without any help of my mind...

Our ego dissolves when we are sleeping, right?

So, who says, i had slept very well last night? Who says it? Who knows it?
Does ego say it? Does ego know it?

Tara5

24-07-2019, 05:42 AM

Maybe it is not about understanding and studying concepts of the mind, but more about understanding the nature of the mind. We all have to deal with our minds,
And the mind is like peeling the Onion...peel off one layer, and there is another underneath, and then another and another...:biggrin:

What is there to learn after realisation? In one sense, nothing. No knowledge can add to the Self. In another sense, everything.
Peace.
That was beautifully said.:smile:

Tara5

24-07-2019, 05:47 AM

There's something within you that knows what to do.
There is a power greater than you that knows how to take care of you without your help.
All you've got to do is to surrender to it.
Surrender your thoughts, your mind, your ego, to the current that knows the way.
It will take care of you.
It will take better care of you than you can ever imagine. :hug3:

Robert Adams

God-Like

24-07-2019, 07:09 AM

I'd like to share with you an incident from Robert Adams's Life : Robert stated, "From the very beginning, as far back as I can remember, when I was in my crib a little man with a gray beard and white hair used to appear before me at the other end of the crib, about two feet tall, and speak gibberish to me."

he had had visions of a white haired, bearded man seated at the foot of his bed, who was about two feet tall, and who used to talk to him in a language which he did not understand. He told his parents but they thought he was playing games. He would later find out that this man was a vision of his future guru Sri Ramana Maharshi.

So, Robert didn't go to Ramana to study the concepts of the mind.

Wow, lucky you!:hug3:
I'm curious to know more about your mom :love10:

Nothing...But, as we know, Maya (illusion) is sometimes more powerful than the Self...Maya constantly pushes us back from progressing spiritually...
So, Sangha or Satsang (The term Satsang is coined from the Sanskrit language, with sat meaning "the absolute truth" and sang meaning " company of seekers or saints...Gathering of the Truth/Oneness) is considered very important - to spend time with a group-of-same is absolutely important to help us ascend and grow

Can i observe the candle without the Me?
Yes!
I can observe the candle without any 'past knowledge'...without Naming it..
watching becomes an ego-based process when we Watch with a Conditioned-Mind....

I know I Am, without any help of my mind...

Our ego dissolves when we are sleeping, right?

So, who says, i had slept very well last night? Who says it? Who knows it?
Does ego say it? Does ego know it?

When Adams went to study and learn from a dozen teachers and he at some point like you said devoted himself to the teachings of ramana . All knowledge / teachings are concepts of the mind . All are concepts trying to explain what self is and what self isn't and what we are in reflection of our mindful reality .

I am happy to speak more about my mum if you have any specific questions . This also relates to the requirement of having certain masters or guru's in one's life . It isn't by chance or by luck that these individuals are within our lives . A lot of guidance goes on behind the scenes by non physical/s .

I am glad you agree there is nothing to learn per se . You mention terms and meanings and teachings that relate to sanskrit language . Again certain folk feel the desire and study all these terminologies and familiarise themselves with buddhist terms, and what samadhi relates to this and what samadhi relates to that . Each to their own on that score but all one is doing is filling their heads with more and more knowledge which is quite ironic when at a certain point, certain spiritual peeps say the more spiritual they are the less they actually know, but there they are filling their minds with more and more conceptual knowledge lol .

I don't need to know or have the desire to study or read other's teachings .

let me ask you again because you haven't answered me as yet .. whose knowledge is it? when teachers study other teachers and study the scriptures whose teachings are whose .

When forum members speak like guru's and are well versed in sanskrit, whose knowledge do they recite?

It's like chinese whispers passing down knowledge from someone standing to their left lol .

What is the origin of such knowledge?

The first ever self realized dude that managed to get ink to paper?

How do you know that you are observing the candle without you being present?

Our ego doesn't dissolve when you are asleep . What you are never sleeps .

You are consciously aware at all times you just don't remember it .

There is only what you are so the sense of that say's you have had a good or bad sleep .

The sense of self in reflection of what sleep is and what good and bad implies is ego related .

Like said the ego is a sense of your self, self identified . You can't identify with sleep if you don't identity with self because sleep would mean nothing to no-one .

x daz x

iamthat

24-07-2019, 08:13 PM

You mention terms and meanings and teachings that relate to sanskrit language . Again certain folk feel the desire and study all these terminologies and familiarise themselves with buddhist terms, and what samadhi relates to this and what samadhi relates to that . Each to their own on that score but all one is doing is filling their heads with more and more knowledge which is quite ironic when at a certain point, certain spiritual peeps say the more spiritual they are the less they actually know, but there they are filling their minds with more and more conceptual knowledge lol .

I don't need to know or have the desire to study or read other's teachings .

let me ask you again because you haven't answered me as yet .. whose knowledge is it? when teachers study other teachers and study the scriptures whose teachings are whose .

When forum members speak like guru's and are well versed in sanskrit, whose knowledge do they recite?

It's like chinese whispers passing down knowledge from someone standing to their left lol .

What is the origin of such knowledge?

I cannot speak for anyone else but I find the Sanskrit terms useful. There is usually no simple equivalent in English which conveys the same meaning. But my knowledge is limited to the more familiar Sanskrit terms.

You may not feel any desire to read the teachings of others, and that is fine. I happen to enjoy reading such teachings (but not all teachings - for example, I find J. Krishnamurti very dry and unreadable). Each to their own.

I don't understand your question about whose knowledge it is. There is a body of knowledge going way back. We can point to this teacher or that text, but such knowledge was taught orally long before any of it was written down. This body of knowledge is useful as a spiritual philosophy, but the philosophy comes alive through our own realisations.

For example, we can read countless texts on Advaita, but Advaita takes on practical meaning through the words of teachers such as Ramana Maharshi or Nisargadatta. It then becomes a living reality through our own realisations. We may then read the teachings and they reflect our own experience.

Peace.

God-Like

25-07-2019, 06:43 AM

I cannot speak for anyone else but I find the Sanskrit terms useful. There is usually no simple equivalent in English which conveys the same meaning. But my knowledge is limited to the more familiar Sanskrit terms.

You may not feel any desire to read the teachings of others, and that is fine. I happen to enjoy reading such teachings (but not all teachings - for example, I find J. Krishnamurti very dry and unreadable). Each to their own.

I don't understand your question about whose knowledge it is. There is a body of knowledge going way back. We can point to this teacher or that text, but such knowledge was taught orally long before any of it was written down. This body of knowledge is useful as a spiritual philosophy, but the philosophy comes alive through our own realisations.

For example, we can read countless texts on Advaita, but Advaita takes on practical meaning through the words of teachers such as Ramana Maharshi or Nisargadatta. It then becomes a living reality through our own realisations. We may then read the teachings and they reflect our own experience.

Peace.

Sure, knowledge is useful, sanskrit meanings are, even instructions on how to build an ikea wardrobe is useful .

I am more leaning towards teachers that teach who have attained a wealth of knowledge by the hands of other's .

And these other's have the teaching's of other's and so forth .

All good on that score, I am not knocking learning and teaching, I was trying to illustrate however that it's easy to fall in love and become devoted because of what someone say's .. even when the knowledge is second or third hand to infinity .

If we perhaps speak on behalf on engineers, bridge builders, car engine designers then there is a sign of the times that is involved in regards to authenticity .

No one can 200 years later say that they have now designed the first bridge or car engine but spiritual types can attain knowledge and speak as if it is their way of life .

Any forum member can write a book using all the data from all the posts .. One can speak about unconditional love and one can talk about non duality and be seen by other's to be some super duper guru type without even having looked at oneself in reflection of what the teachings refer too .

I am not negating Adams realization or anyones just to be clear, I was more so trying to establish that learning concepts from a dozen teachers is what has happened in his case .

What would self realized individuals talk about if there was no scriptures to fall back on .. I said to Tara what could be said about the realization of Self itself could be written on paper the size of a postage stamp . Declaring that reality is a dream and such likes is a conclusion of the mind, so then you have someone read that and believe that and be influenced by that in equal measure to their devotion of the teacher. It can be a dangerous game .

All you have to do is say to certain teacher's 'did you realize that'?

Then watch the reply ..

In regards to your enquiry into what does my question mean regarding whose knowledge is it you have illustrated my point in meaning .

Scripture's written from way back and before that teachings through word of mouth . All second, third hand knowledge to infinity .

Living reality through our own realizations in reflections of other teachings is what exactly?

What I mean, is some might say that they have nothing to do with this world or the body like Adams has pointed out .

This is not realized . This is a conclusion of the mind, so all that happens is peeps can resonate by means of coming to the same conclusion .

Then you have to see if these conclusions are met by how they live their life . It goes way deep . Peeps that say they have nothing to do with this world and with the body carry on as if they have . They even teach other's this lol to what means? to other's that have nothing to do with this world or the body?.

x daz x

Tara5

25-07-2019, 06:52 AM

When Adams went to study and learn from a dozen teachers

Robert Adams NEVER went to study and learn from a dozen teachers..
He was a self-realized jnani.

Sufi saint Rumi had once famously said: “Sit with lovers and choose their state. Do not stay long with those who are not living in the heart.”

So, he was sitting with lovers....they were like birds of a feather flocking together. :wink:

All knowledge / teachings are concepts of the mind .

Yes, all knowledge is mental...concepts of the mind....because knowledge is borrowed...but not WISDOM (knowing)...

knowledge is not the same as wisdom.

Wisdom is inner-flowering, wisdom comes when we go beyond the mind...

Ramana based his teaching on his own direct realization

I am happy to speak more about my mum if you have any specific questions .

I want to know everything about this divine Being :love4: ...but it's a public forum...so, i'm a bit confused...:confused:

It isn't by chance or by luck that these individuals are within our lives . A lot of guidance goes on behind the scenes by non physical/s .

We carefully choose our parents/family before we are born to master certain life lessons...

I don't need to know or have the desire to study or read other's teachings .

There is no OTHER...there is only THAT

I'm a passionate reader...I grew up in a book-filed home, so, reading comes as naturally to me as breathing....

let me ask you again because you haven't answered me as yet .. whose knowledge is it? when teachers study other teachers and study the scriptures whose teachings are whose

When forum members speak like guru's and are well versed in sanskrit, whose knowledge do they recite?

It's like chinese whispers passing down knowledge from someone standing to their left lol .

What is the origin of such knowledge?

The first ever self realized dude that managed to get ink to paper?

You are confused between knowledge and wisdom...

How do you know that you are observing the candle without you being present?

"You being present" means what?

Witnessing happens spontaneously and effortlessly, without naming or labelling (neutral witnessing)

I without the i'm.....is ever-present...

Our ego doesn't dissolve when you are asleep . What you are never sleeps .

Our ego doesn't dissolve when you are asleep . What you are never sleeps .

You are consciously aware at all times you just don't remember it .

There is only what you are so the sense of that say's you have had a good or bad sleep .

The sense of self in reflection of what sleep is and what good and bad implies is ego related .

Like said the ego is a sense of your self, self identified . You can't identify with sleep if you don't identity with self because sleep would mean nothing to no-one .

x daz x

wrong perception of ego....
if you don't want to read Ramana and Robert...read/listen to Rupert Spira.....just a suggestion. Take it or leave it :wink:

Tara5

25-07-2019, 06:59 AM

I cannot speak for anyone else but I find the Sanskrit terms useful. There is usually no simple equivalent in English which conveys the same meaning. But my knowledge is limited to the more familiar Sanskrit terms.

I studied Sanskrit at school but I've forgotten most of it now.
Sanskrit is the language of the Vedas, the most ancient sacred hindu scripts.

You may not feel any desire to read the teachings of others, and that is fine. I happen to enjoy reading such teachings (but not all teachings - for example, I find J. Krishnamurti very dry and unreadable). Each to their own.

J.krishnamurti is dry as a desert...but the desert has its own beauty....I've spent a lot of time reading JK's work...his teachings left an imprint on me.

For example, we can read countless texts on Advaita, but Advaita takes on practical meaning through the words of teachers such as Ramana Maharshi or Nisargadatta. It then becomes a living reality through our own realisations. We may then read the teachings and they reflect our own experience. Peace.

:thumbsup:

God-Like

25-07-2019, 07:20 AM

Robert Adams NEVER went to study and learn from a dozen teachers..
He was a self-realized jnani.

Sufi saint Rumi had once famously said: “Sit with lovers and choose their state. Do not stay long with those who are not living in the heart.”

So, he was sitting with lovers....they were like birds of a feather flocking together. :wink:

Yes, all knowledge is mental...concepts of the mind....because knowledge is borrowed...but not WISDOM (knowing)...

knowledge is not the same as wisdom.

Wisdom is inner-flowering, wisdom comes when we go beyond the mind...

Ramana based his teaching on his own direct realization
:

J. Goldsmith was his first mentor . You don't have a mentor and not learn anything from them ..

You don't become a devotee of Ramana and not learn anything .

I could go on and on with the list of other teachers .

By his own admission Adams say's there was no such thing as a new teaching. This knowledge could be found in the Upanishads, the Vedas and other Hindu scriptures .

Why didn't all this knowledge come to Adams during his realization episode .

Why is there the reason to have confirmation by reading all these scriptures .

The reason is because there is no knowledge that pertains to concepts of the mind that is of the realization itself .

So when Adams says he has nothing to do with this world or this body, is that wisdom or mental knowledge .

Lets take this step by step and then I will address your other thoughts / comments .

x daz x

ajay00

25-07-2019, 02:52 PM

Can i observe the candle without the Me?
Yes!
I can observe the candle without any 'past knowledge'...without Naming it..
watching becomes an ego-based process when we Watch with a Conditioned-Mind....

Yes, all knowledge is mental...concepts of the mind....because knowledge is borrowed...but not WISDOM (knowing)...

knowledge is not the same as wisdom.

Wisdom is inner-flowering, wisdom comes when we go beyond the mind...

Thoughts come, stay and go but it isn't YOU that comes and goes with your thoughts....Something is aware of COMING staying and Going.... Who is he? Because of Self/Consciousness/Awareness thinking is known to be happening. And that Awareness is like empty space or screen upon which everything is seen...coming going everything...Go inwards

Great observations , Tara. Found it insightful. :icon_thumright:

Thanks also for this highly informative thread of yours. Robert Adams is indeed a great master in his own right. :smile:

Miss Hepburn

25-07-2019, 11:26 PM

J. Goldsmith was his first mentor . You don't have a mentor and not learn anything from them ..

You don't become a devotee of Ramana and not learn anything .

I could go on and on with the list of other teachers .

By his own admission Adams say's there was no such thing as a new teaching.

This knowledge could be found in the Upanishads, the Vedas and other Hindu scriptures.

Why didn't all this knowledge come to Adams during his realization episode .Why is there the reason to have confirmation by reading all these scriptures .
The reason is because there is no knowledge that pertains to concepts of the mind that is of the realization itself.

So when Adams says he has nothing to do with this world or this body, is that wisdom or mental knowledge.
Lets take this step by step and then I will address your other thoughts / comments .What exactly is the point you want to get to, daz?
I don't understand the need, almost like a grilling, that you're doing to sweet Tara.
And why do you put a space before each of your periods? :tongue:
Of course, you could then ask me.. 'Why do you feel a need to correct them all, Miss H"..I stopped, btw. :biggrin: LOL

I love Joel S. Goldsmith!

Tara5

26-07-2019, 05:16 AM

J. Goldsmith was his first mentor . You don't have a mentor and not learn anything from them ..
At the age of 14, Robert had a deep experience of One-Ness. And...
At the age of 16, Robert met Joel. Goldsmith.
So,
Robert had a direct experience of ONENESS much before meeting Goldsmith...
J Goldsmith helped Robert to understand Robert's experience better....Awakening is not always Bliss...it's a painful and complex process...And, he was too young to understand that, merely 14 years old.... In fact, J.Goldsmith advised him to see Yogananda Paramhamsa...And, later Yogananda realized that Robert had his own path and sent him to India to meet Ramana...
By his own admission Adams say's there was no such thing as a new teaching. This knowledge could be found in the Upanishads, the Vedas and other Hindu scriptures .
he is absolutely right....Advaita philosophy is taught by the Vedas, the most ancient scriptures of India.
Teaching/philosophy is not new...
But, the self-realisation comes through our own personal experiences, thus, always NEW....Awakening is not something one can learn from others...

So when Adams says he has nothing to do with this world or this body, is that wisdom or mental knowledge .
I think you know my answer :mad:

Lets take this step by step and then I will address your other thoughts / comments .
x daz x
Anytime :icon_evil:

Tara5

26-07-2019, 05:22 AM

Great observations , Tara. Found it insightful. :icon_thumright:

Thanks also for this highly informative thread of yours. Robert Adams is indeed a great master in his own right. :smile:

Thanks, Ajay. I am glad you found it informative. :hug3:

Tara5

26-07-2019, 05:27 AM

What exactly is the point you want to get to, daz?
I don't understand the need, almost like a grilling, that you're doing to sweet Tara.
Maybe, Daz is exercising his spiritual muscles. :wink: :D

I love Joel S. Goldsmith!

:hug3: Thank you for all the support and love!:hug3:

God-Like

26-07-2019, 06:56 AM

What exactly is the point you want to get to, daz?
I don't understand the need, almost like a grilling, that you're doing to sweet Tara.
And why do you put a space before each of your periods? :tongue:
Of course, you could then ask me.. 'Why do you feel a need to correct them all, Miss H"..I stopped, btw. :biggrin: LOL

I love Joel S. Goldsmith!

I am pointing out the differences between realization and man made concepts and conclusions .

I am pointing out the dangers of reaching out to the public as teachers proclaiming not to have anything to do with the world and the body just as an example .

Teaching of no self, non attachment, non duality, no ego is rife but much of the time under scrutiny nothing much add's up .

There is a lot about my energy that I haven't shared in regards to seeing through what's being said and what's being actually lived on a deeper level .

I will leave it that .

So what you may see as grilling Tara, I am simply asking questions that will cause her to contemplate what is being taught in reflection to her own answers to my questions .

Some don't want to see what they have surmised from contemplation because they have been influenced by other's to such an extent that they would rather follow what other's say instead .

Now what I am getting at, is the knowledge attained, the concepts attained that have been written down and followed .

It doesn't matter if it is the vedas or the bible .

Lets get to the heart of the matter . What is realized and what isn't .

All these teachers that state this and that about reality being this or that way isn't realized .

Peeps are walking around following teachers believing what is said is the Truth about reality .

Let me repeat what niz said, There is no right or wrong, there is just a favoured perspective .

So if you understand this one aspect, what does it mean for someone to say I have nothing to do with the world or the body?

What does it mean when a peep has a realization that isn't understood to then search for answers and to then after being educated by what is written by other's to then say how reality is in reflection of what they are ..

One minute one has no idea then after being educated by what many other's say then all of a sudden they can teach what they know lol ,

Well it isn't what they know directly is it . It's just conforming to what is concluded by other's.

Lets get to the heart of what I am suggesting here .

x daz x

God-Like

26-07-2019, 06:59 AM

At the age of 14, Robert had a deep experience of One-Ness. And...
At the age of 16, Robert met Joel. Goldsmith.
So,
Robert had a direct experience of ONENESS much before meeting Goldsmith...
J Goldsmith helped Robert to understand Robert's experience better....Awakening is not always Bliss...it's a painful and complex process...And, he was too young to understand that, merely 14 years old.... In fact, J.Goldsmith advised him to see Yogananda Paramhamsa...And, later Yogananda realized that Robert had his own path and sent him to India to meet Ramana...

he is absolutely right....Advaita philosophy is taught by the Vedas, the most ancient scriptures of India.
Teaching/philosophy is not new...
But, the self-realisation comes through our own personal experiences, thus, always NEW....Awakening is not something one can learn from others...

I think you know my answer :mad:

Anytime :icon_evil:

You don't need a mentor unless you need mentoring .

I am not disputing Adams realizations .

The fact is that he didn't understand what transpired so then he sought understandings from other's .

These so called other's have their own understandings, many that were also educated via their teachers and via the knowledge of the scriptures .

So we now have a Self realized individual that has a headful of concepts that have been passed down the line .

We now have an individual that is devoted to the teachings of another, so much so that he wants to spread the word of them .

Now this is showing you that there is a belief in what another say's and that is okay, I believed what my mum said to me even though she didn't speak too much about it because there were no fancy concepts to speak of . There was living life by example .

Sure there was the understanding / concept that what we are is everything and certain experiences are temporary, but hardcore twisted understanding can reflect upon everything being illusory or no-one is here and I have nothing to do with this world blah, blah, blah .. is all on a secondary level of mindful conclusions .

I am not sure if you know this or not or if you care or not either way .

In regards to scriptures, my point is that what peeps recite is what is written down in the scriptures .

It's like church folk reciting the bible isn't it . You have millions of peeps singing from the same hymn sheet because of what is written in front of them .

It's a conforming of beliefs that become engrained within the minds of followers .

If Adams is speaking wisdom and not mental knowledge then how did he attain the knowings when prior to meeting these other teachers he had no idea .

Perhaps there is wisdom in such words written, perhaps what is wise is in the eyes of the beholder, but nevertheless his understandings of reality came about through learning what other's have said about the matter .

And these peeps have the understandings because of what their mentors and gurus have said and so forth .

This is why I have asked about the origin of the teachings .

x daz x

muffin

26-07-2019, 08:25 AM

God-Like

26-07-2019, 09:12 AM

Good afternoon daz :smile:

I know what your aiming at and at the same time I see where the others are coming from.

Unsure if your going to meet in the middle on this, we'll see.

I've bitten my tongue more than once in this thread, but thats nothing unusually :biggrin:

Just out of curiosity what do you class a guru to be ?

Hey, Muffin Man ..

I am glad you see what I am aiming at, it really is straightforward as I see it .

It's all about the nature of realization compared with written word conclusions, passed down in such a way where what is written in scriptures and doctrines are to be taken as being gospel without questioning there origins .

I am not poo pooing wise words, or teachers to be clear I am just trying to emphasise that even texts and quotes and cute poetical spiritual proses that warms one's heart doesn't necessarily reflect anything more than resonation . Resonating with other's or what is written in scriptures doesn't make it true .

There are so many teachings that reflect self and our reality, many agree and many disagree, so many perspectives had based upon realization itself and what it actually means and refers too .

You would generally have only agreement in regards to the realization itself in that it is beyond words so to speak and there is what you are present even though self is absent, mind is absent .

Disagreements manifest and arise when what is beyond words is put into words and realities are explained and created, self no longer is even when there is self awareness lol, ego is supposedly dissolved while brushing teeth and cashing cheques .. cause and effect, individuality, illusions, dimensions are all up for speculation and up for debate .

If the one shoe size fits all then why are there folks with sore feet and blisters .

In regards to what I class a guru to be is someone that lives by example, one that practices what they preach, one that guides you to find out for yourself about what you are .

If you don't understand something about yourself there is no real harm in looking for help and guidance for there is a good reason for why teachers exist .

x daz x

muffin

26-07-2019, 10:28 AM

Hey, Muffin Man ..

I am glad you see what I am aiming at, it really is straightforward as I see it .

It's all about the nature of realization compared with written word conclusions, passed down in such a way where what is written in scriptures and doctrines are to be taken as being gospel without questioning there origins .
Yes things do resonate to us thru scriptures, doctrines, poetry, music and life, for me daz theres heaps of different ways, all sign posts in there own way and they are just that.

Taking something from what Tara5 said, "is like peeling the Onion...peel off one layer, and there is another underneath, and then another and another.."

Each layer has it's own meaning, I think this comes down to where you are in yourself or how far you are along the path.

I don't think you will really know what they saying till you get there yourself.

Quote,"In regards to what I class a guru to be is someone that lives by example, one that practices what they preach, one that guides you to find out for yourself about what you are .

The only part I agree with you is this,"one that guides you to find out for yourself about what you are", but I don't see this as a person/human to many hangups. :wink:

God-Like

26-07-2019, 11:04 AM

Yes things do resonate to us thru scriptures, doctrines, poetry, music and life, for me daz theres heaps of different ways, all sign posts in there own way and they are just that.

Taking something from what Tara5 said, "is like peeling the Onion...peel off one layer, and there is another underneath, and then another and another.."
Yes, the onion's layers is a good analogy and I have used it myself. This is what I was suggesting to Tara earlier in regards to a one sided coin type of realization .

One can swear blindly that I AM not the body, then another layer is peeled back or another layer of understanding and integration is attained where one now say's I AM not the body and I AM also the body.

Each layer or level of integration and understanding had reflects upon oneself, how one perceives oneself and all things.

I am sure that there are Self realized folk out there that have realizations and carry on as they once did, that is why there is the saying of chop wood carry water .

One doesn't have to attain the knowledge of the vedas under their bonnet, one doesn't have to attain a concept that life is illusory or there is no-one here per se .

They carry on with life, living life with love in their hearts, treating other's as they would like to be treated and so forth .

No need to study anything, no need to read scriptures, bibles, no need to spread the word of other teachers and such likes ..

Just emphasising this point for simplicities sake if nothing else .

This is the guru living life by example ...

x daz x

muffin

26-07-2019, 11:33 AM

Yes, the onion's layers is a good analogy and I have used it myself. This is what I was suggesting to Tara earlier in regards to a one sided coin type of realization .
Agree with what saying :smile:

The only time you can say, I am not the body is when it's time to move on.

Finding whats beyond that, just like the surprise of opening ones Christmas present one last time :wink:

Good night daz, sleep well and sweet dreams when you get there.

Tara5

27-07-2019, 06:44 AM

I am not disputing Adams realizations .
Oh, really? :confused:
The fact is that he didn't understand what transpired so then he sought understandings from other's .

These so called other's have their own understandings, many that were also educated via their teachers and via the knowledge of the scriptures .

So we now have a Self realized individual that has a headful of concepts that have been passed down the line .
Let's say, you are just in the middle of a nice, romantic dream...when suddenly your alarm goes off....Now, you're awake....you wake up in a confused state...disoriented...not knowing, where you are, who you are....

The same happens, when we wake up out of the Illusion (dream)....take a while to sink in.
We now have an individual that is devoted to the teachings of another, so much so that he wants to spread the word of them .
It is called LOVE.
Now this is showing you that there is a belief in what another say's and that is okay, I believed what my mum said to me even though she didn't speak too much about it because there were no fancy concepts to speak of . There was living life by example .
Would love to know more about her teachings/spiritual path/journey....if you don't mind. :love10:
Sure there was the understanding / concept that what we are is everything and certain experiences are temporary, but hardcore twisted understanding can reflect upon everything being illusory or no-one is here and I have nothing to do with this world blah, blah, blah .. is all on a secondary level of mindful conclusions .
I've nothing is do with this world, is not a concept or mindful conclusions...it's a KNOWING...

When i say, i've nothing to do with this body means...i have dropped my attachments...I no longer get identified with this body...

It's like church folk reciting the bible isn't it . You have millions of peeps singing from the same hymn sheet because of what is written in front of them
Direct experiencing is different from reciting the bible etc...

It's a conforming of beliefs that become engrained within the minds of followers .

If Adams is speaking wisdom and not mental knowledge then how did he attain the knowings when prior to meeting these other teachers he had no idea .

Perhaps there is wisdom in such words written, perhaps what is wise is in the eyes of the beholder, but nevertheless his understandings of reality came about through learning what other's have said about the matter .

And these peeps have the understandings because of what their mentors and gurus have said and so forth .

This is why I have asked about the origin of the teachings .
x daz x
I've already answered these questions......:wink:

Tara5

27-07-2019, 06:46 AM

Yes things do resonate to us thru scriptures, doctrines, poetry, music and life, for me daz theres heaps of different ways, all sign posts in there own way and they are just that.

:icon_thumright: :icon_thumright:

Tara5

27-07-2019, 06:47 AM

The best thing you can do is not react to anything, but to act from your heart with love, compassion, peace, and let the chips fall where they may.

As you begin not to react to conditions, you find that your thoughts become weaker and weaker. Your mind, which is merely a bundle of thoughts, wants you to react. The greater the reaction, the stronger the mind. And the stronger the mind, the greater the maya. You get pulled into the game.

When you stop reacting, the mind doesn't like that. Therefore it will bring up all kinds of things. It'll show you all kinds of pictures, make you feel all kinds of negative conditions, so that you will want to react. You therefore have to watch yourself, pay attention to yourself, watch how you react to conditions, watch the nature of your mind.:hug3:

Robert Adams

God-Like

27-07-2019, 09:23 AM

Oh, really? :confused:

Let's say, you are just in the middle of a nice, romantic dream...when suddenly your alarm goes off....Now, you're awake....you wake up in a confused state...disoriented...not knowing, where you are, who you are....

The same happens, when we wake up out of the Illusion (dream)....take a while to sink in.

It is called LOVE.

Would love to know more about her teachings/spiritual path/journey....if you don't mind. :love10:

I've nothing is do with this world, is not a concept or mindful conclusions...it's a KNOWING...

When i say, i've nothing to do with this body means...i have dropped my attachments...I no longer get identified with this body...

Direct experiencing is different from reciting the bible etc...

I've already answered these questions......:wink:

I have said many times that I am not disputing Adams realisation . What I am disputing is what is reflected in what has been taught by other’s in order for Adams to understand what he initially didn’t.

You are not grasping what I am saying in regards to conclusions made post-realisation. You say that ‘I have nothing to do with this world’ is a knowing, but this knowing is not realised it is a conclusion.

What would you say to someone who has realized what they are who say’s that I am not the world and I am the world .

By your understanding this would equally be a knowing but it would be an incorrect knowing based upon your belief in what Adams has said.

I promise you there is the understanding had that I am both the world and not the world .

You are believing in just one side of the coin like said .

If you believe that you have nothing to do with the world then what is the world? What is the world that is not what you are?

In regards to LOVE in reference to Adams devotion of Ramana’s teachings, you can call it what you like, it doesn’t however alter the fact that he believes in Ramana’s teachings and he believes that what he say’s is true . He never had these understandings prior to learning his teachings.

So again let me say that certain teachers that teach, teach from the knowledge attained by other’s and teach through studying the scriptures..

You say direct experiencing is different from reciting the bible etc... but you don't directly experience that I am not the world.

You seem to be confused in what constitutes direct experience and what you conclude.

You don't directly experience that you have nothing to do with the world. You realise that what you are exists beyond the world.

You don't seem to see the difference in what I am pointing at.

The conclusion that I have nothing to do with the world is just a mindful conclusion and not a direct experience.

Do you understand?

x daz x

Tara5

27-07-2019, 12:37 PM

I have said many times that I am not disputing Adams realisation . What I am disputing is what is reflected in what has been taught by other’s in order for Adams to understand what he initially didn’t.
No, i don't....coz, you're speaking from your mind (intellect) and i'm speaking from my heart (trust/surrender)....we are speaking totally different languages...And, it's Okay....:wink:

Unseeking Seeker

27-07-2019, 12:52 PM

"Do not look for signs.
Do not look for experiences.
Do not be so complicated.
Become like a child.
See everything with awe." ~ Robert Adams

Miss Hepburn

27-07-2019, 02:44 PM

"Do not look for signs.
Do not look for experiences.
Do not be so complicated.
Become like a child.
See everything with awe." ~ Robert Adams I mean, you could take that ...wonder off...and never read another thing! :tongue:

Miss Hepburn

27-07-2019, 02:50 PM

I am pointing out the differences between realization and man made concepts and conclusions .

I am pointing out the dangers of reaching out to the public as teachers proclaiming not
to have anything to do with the world and the body just as an example .
Ooooo, the (((dangers))).:icon_eek:

Sorry, I will leave you to it, you are on a mission...it's not mine....so...
whatever floats your boat, daz...enjoy.
......................last thing:
"I have said many times that I am not disputing Adams realisation .
What I am disputing is what is reflected in what has been taught by other’s
in order for Adams to understand what he initially didn’t."-daz

Ya know. I have had Divine experiences (for exactly this yr, ha! 5 decades...damn, 6 decades, forgot 2 as
a little kid)...''Visitations'' ... from God, the Father, my Father.
THEN! uh-oh, here it comes ...
I started listening to Christian stuff...and Shazam! I changed that to
'the Holy Spirit'....I understood my own exp differently because of what others exp'd.
It was the Holy Spirit and if I had never heard this word from someone else ....
I also would not have known to call it 'Grace'.
Those darn Christian teachers they deepened my understanding!!!:tongue:

Unseeking Seeker

27-07-2019, 03:09 PM

***

The fragmented mind
Cannot find
The whole
The soul
The essence
Of divine presence
The fragrance
Of innocence
Or dance
In an ecstatic trance
Of joy
Without egoic ploy

a poem by ... who knows ... who cares ... as long as we choose to pair :hug3:

***

muffin

28-07-2019, 12:19 AM

I've nothing is do with this world, is not a concept or mindful conclusions...it's a KNOWING...

When i say, i've nothing to do with this body means...i have dropped my attachments...I no longer get identified with this body...

Good afternoon Tara5 :smile:

Body and Attachments, are two different things.

The body doesn't want for anything

So where does attachments lie.

Got to careful on these boards, you'll be pulled up on the smallest of things :wink:

Tara5

28-07-2019, 05:25 AM

"Do not look for signs.
Do not look for experiences.
Do not be so complicated.
Become like a child.
See everything with awe." ~ Robert Adams

:hug3: :hug3:

Tara5

28-07-2019, 05:30 AM

in order for Adams to understand what he initially didn’t."-daz

Ya know. I have had Divine experiences (for exactly this yr, ha! 5 decades...damn, 6 decades, forgot 2 as
a little kid)...''Visitations'' ... from God, the Father, my Father.
THEN! uh-oh, here it comes ...
I started listening to Christian stuff...and Shazam! I changed that to
'the Holy Spirit'....I understood my own exp differently because of what others exp'd.
It was the Holy Spirit and if I had never heard this word from someone else ....
I also would not have known to call it 'Grace'.
Those darn Christian teachers they deepened my understanding!!!:tongue:

Exactly! I was so flabbergasted to speak when I first got the glimpses of truth, and it lasted a year.....In order to have a better understanding of Myself, i started reading Ramana, Robert Adams, Papaji, Gangaji etc... :smile:

Tara5

28-07-2019, 05:33 AM

Tara5

28-07-2019, 05:40 AM

Good afternoon Tara5 :smile:

Body and Attachments, are two different things.

The body doesn't want for anything

So where does attachments lie.

Good morning Muffin....:smile:
Of course, the body and Attachments, are two different things.

The body is a form, ever-changing.
And attachment is ownership.:smile:

Got to careful on these boards, you'll be pulled up on the smallest of things :wink:
:thumbsup:

Tara5

28-07-2019, 05:41 AM

Everything that you feel, hear, touch, smell and taste is maya.
Everything is maya, the grand illusion.
Most of us really do not understand what maya really is.
My trying to explain maya is maya.
Everything that your eyes behold,
that you believe is so important, is maya.
Everything that you hear,
Everything that you read,
Everything that you try to do to better yourself,
It’s all maya.

The water in the mirage, that is maya,
something that appears to be real,
but upon your investigation you find it’s not.
The whole world is like that.
The whole universe is like that.
Do not be fooled again.
Do not take anything seriously.
Turn within, do not react.

The turmoil, the chaos that appears to be in this world,
is not the truth. It is not Reality.
It is something that comes and goes.
This too shall pass.
But your center is God, Consciousness,
Absolute Reality, Brahman.
Those are all synonymous.
That is the Peace that exists.

Robert Adams

God-Like

28-07-2019, 10:09 AM

No, i don't....coz, you're speaking from your mind (intellect) and i'm speaking from my heart (trust/surrender)....we are speaking totally different languages...And, it's Okay....:wink:

.

You can’t come from the heart and surrender and conclude that you have nothing to do with the world or the body . You are mixing up the two aspects .

Your right in that we are speaking in different languages, I don't even think a translator will help . :D

x daz x

God-Like

28-07-2019, 10:11 AM

Ooooo, the (((dangers))).:icon_eek:

Sorry, I will leave you to it, you are on a mission...it's not mine....so...
whatever floats your boat, daz...enjoy.
......................last thing:
"I have said many times that I am not disputing Adams realisation .
What I am disputing is what is reflected in what has been taught by other’s
in order for Adams to understand what he initially didn’t."-daz

Ya know. I have had Divine experiences (for exactly this yr, ha! 5 decades...damn, 6 decades, forgot 2 as
a little kid)...''Visitations'' ... from God, the Father, my Father.
THEN! uh-oh, here it comes ...
I started listening to Christian stuff...and Shazam! I changed that to
'the Holy Spirit'....I understood my own exp differently because of what others exp'd.
It was the Holy Spirit and if I had never heard this word from someone else ....
I also would not have known to call it 'Grace'.
Those darn Christian teachers they deepened my understanding!!!:tongue:

Well If you want to call pointing out the differences between the realisation itself and conclusions made via the mind post-realisation a mission then so be it . You could however just see my questions for what they are .

If I was asking for answers that refer to apples and pears then I am sure there would be a more willingness to indulge in answering, but due to the nature of my question, one wouldn’t want to step on any of their masters toes, now would they .. lol . :biggrin:

It’s very common to see those that hold someone so dear to them will not see any fault in them .

It's another form of attachment . One needs to try and let that go . :tongue:

x daz x

God-Like

28-07-2019, 10:17 AM

Good afternoon Tara5 :smile:

Body and Attachments, are two different things.

The body doesn't want for anything

So where does attachments lie.

Got to careful on these boards, you'll be pulled up on the smallest of things :wink:

Brushing one's teeth in the morning is an attachment, it is an action that derives through ego identification .

Watch out for those teachers that have white teeth and healthy gums :D

Then you will see what teachers are self identified with the body and the world and those that are not . :D

*shakes head sadly at the stupidity of it all*

x daz x

Tara5

29-07-2019, 03:44 AM

You can’t come from the heart and surrender and conclude that you have nothing to do with the world or the body . You are mixing up the two aspects .
Not the physical heart (organ), but the spiritual heart - hridaya(Center of being).

Your right in that we are speaking in different languages, I don't even think a translator will help . :D
x daz x
So, what's the solution, then? :wink:

Tara5

29-07-2019, 03:48 AM

It’s very common to see those that hold someone so dear to them will not see any fault in them .

It's another form of attachment . One needs to try and let that go . :tongue:

x daz x

This is one of my favourite stories.

MIRACLE OF TRUST

In Tibet, there is a beautiful story about Marpa. It may not be factual, but it is tremendously significant.
I don’t care much about facts. My emphasis is on the significance and the truth, which is a totally different thing.
Marpa heard about a master. He was searching and he went to the master, he surrendered to the master, he trusted totally. And he asked the master, “What am I supposed to do now?”
The master said, “Once you have surrendered to me, you are not supposed to do anything. Just believe in me. My name is the only secret mantra for you. Whenever you are in difficulty, just remember my name and everything will be all right.”
Marpa touched his feet. And he tried it immediately — he was such a simple man. He walked on the river. Other disciples who had been with the master for years could not believe it — he was walking on the water!
They reported to the master that, “That man, you have not understood him. He is no ordinary man, he is walking on water!”
The master said, “What?”
They all ran towards the river and Marpa was walking on the water, singing songs, dancing. When he came to the shore, the master asked, “What is the secret?”
He said, “What is the secret? It is the same secret that you have given to me — your name. I remembered you. I said, `Master, allow me to walk on water’ and it happened.”
The master could not believe that his name…. He himself could not walk on water. But perhaps… he had never tried.
But it would be better to check a few more things before he tries. So he said to Marpa, “Can you jump from that hill?”
Marpa said, “Whatever you say.” He went up on the hill and jumped, and they were all standing in the valley waiting — just pieces of Marpa will be there! Even if they can find pieces of him, that will be enough — the hill was very high.
But Marpa came down smiling, sitting in a lotus posture. He came just under a tree in the valley, and sat down. They all surrounded him. They looked at him — not even a scratch.
The master said, “This is something. You used my name?”
He said, “It was your name.”
The master said, “This is enough, now I am going to try,” and the first step in the water, he sank.
Marpa could not believe it when he sank. His disciples jumped in and somehow pulled him out. He was half dead. The water was taken out of his lungs… somehow he survived.
And Marpa said, “What is the matter?”
The master said, “You just forgive me. I am no master, I am just a pretender.”
But Marpa said, “If you are a pretender, then how did your name work?”
The pretender said, “My name has not worked. It is your trust. It does not matter who you trust — it is the trust, the love, the totality of it. I don’t trust myself. I don’t trust anybody. I cheat everybody — how can I trust? And I am always afraid to be cheated by others, because I am cheating others. Trust is impossible for me. You are an innocent man, you trusted me. It is because of your trust that the miracles have happened.”
Whether the story is true or not does not matter.
One thing is certain, that your misery is caused by your mistakes and your bliss is caused by your trust, by your love.

Osho

Tara5

29-07-2019, 03:51 AM

Brushing one's teeth in the morning is an attachment, it is an action that derives through ego identification .

Watch out for those teachers that have white teeth and healthy gums :D

Then you will see what teachers are self identified with the body and the world and those that are not . :D
Do you have white teeth and healthy gums? :tongue:

*shakes head sadly at the stupidity of it all*
x daz x
Aww.....So Cute :tongue: :D

Tara5

29-07-2019, 03:53 AM

Allow your mind to say and think the way it will, only don’t identify with it. Allow your body to do what it must, but do not react to it. Everything will happen of its own accord. When you allow your mind to think of its own accord, the thoughts begin to dissipate, and soon you have empty mind. Empty mind is consciousness, realization. That’s all you have to do - have empty mind. But as long as you believe, ‘I am the doer’, and you force yourself to have an empty mind, you never will, because the forcing makes the mind stronger. Rather, observe your thoughts, watch the mind thinking, and leave it alone. Do not identify with your thoughts, or with your body, for in reality there is no body and there are no thoughts, for there is only the Self, and you are that. :hug3:

Robert Adams

God-Like

29-07-2019, 07:07 AM

Not the physical heart (organ), but the spiritual heart - hridaya(Center of being).

So, what's the solution, then? :wink:

Yep, I know that you were not inferring the physical heart .

What I am saying is that concluding that I am has nothing to do with the body is a mental / intellectual exercise it's not something realized .

You are mixing up the head and the heart because you want it to fit in with your paradigm and with your portrayal of Adams.

Do you understand that coming to conclusions about reality and about oneself requires mental / intellectual relations, even if one recites poetry or declares all is Love?

In regards to both of us singing from a different hymn sheet, we will probably both run out of hymns shortly lol .

I am not sure that there has been any headway while you continue to see through rose coloured spectacles.

You seem to think that you can have nothing to do with this body or this world, be unattached, unconditioned and function without entertaining any form of self identity.

This is so way off base it's borderline bonkers .. :)

I have tried to explain the differences between mindful conclusions and realizations, direct knowings and realizations but no-one wants to admit to them.

This is because of the devotion and peeps only want to see what their beliefs allow. It is very difficult to let these restraints go because it in a way shapes their reality.

My mums fella's mum (bit of a tongue twister I know) preached the bible to him and his bro and sister all his life, made him go to sunday school, join a church choir and she made his life a living hell.

60 years later she saw through the bible and gave the church up. She never said sorry to her children for what she put them through.

I have seen what false beliefs do to people and it never ends well, the greater you hold on to false concepts the greater the disappointment.

x dazzle x

God-Like

29-07-2019, 07:08 AM

Do you have white teeth and healthy gums? :tongue:

Aww.....So Cute :tongue: :D

Many spiritual teachings regard the body as a temple . There is unity in all aspects of self on a mind-body-spirit-soul level / experience.

I am a healer at heart and I work on many others and I work on myself .

I do so because I understand the relationship between what I am and the mind-body-spirit-soul experience .

Now if you supposedly believe that you have nothing to do with the body then you would not do anything bodily related .

Can you tell me that Adams went about his business in regards to life experience unkept and naked and didn't eat or drink?

He was married and had two children, how can a non self identified individual that has nothing to do with the body and the world entertain a marriage lol .

Do you understand the nature of self identification in order to function in this world?

Do you know that in order to identify with your own children and wife you need to identify with yourself.

To suggest that you have nothing to do with this world or this body but still groom the body, get married, have sex, have children, drink beer and eat pizza then there is a serious level of confusion and denial present .

It's no good talking about the absence of self identity while engaging in it .

To even relate to having no self identity is a form of self identity. Can you see this. Can you see why it's bonkers.. Can you see that at a point believing these types of concepts will do more harm than good.

At a point all christians will put down the bible.

x dazzler x

Unseeking Seeker

29-07-2019, 03:54 PM

"The only burden you have ever had is your mind." ~ Robert Adams

Unseeking Seeker

29-07-2019, 03:55 PM

"The only way you will ever awaken is through silence, not through analyzation of facts. Not by sorting out good and bad, but through simple silence, letting go. Letting go of all thoughts, all the hurts, all the dogmas and concepts. Letting go of these things daily." ~ Robert Adams

Unseeking Seeker

29-07-2019, 04:23 PM

YOU ARE THE SILENCE. THE SILENCE OF THE HEART.

Always ask yourself, ‘Why am I here?’ It is always good to ask yourself this. I don’t mean, why are you in the universe? Why are you here in this room, in this class, at ‘satsang’?
What do you want? What are you looking for?

You Are Spirit

Remember, if you are looking for any-thing, you are here for the wrong reason. For there is nothing that I can give you really, that you haven’t already got. There is absolutely I can do for you for I am not the doer. Neither are you.

You are already fulfilled. Everything I have is yours. There is absolutely nothing lacking in you. You are Spirit. You are not the body that appears to be a body. You are Spirit. Something absolutely different than what you can ever imagine. Everything that you can ever imagine, that you want to be, YOU ALREADY ARE.

You are the Imperishable SELF that has always been, that you always will be. Beyond birth, beyond death, beyond experiences, beyond doubts, beyond opinions. Beyond whatever it is your body is going through, whatever thoughts your mind thinks. YOU are beyond that.

You are the Silence. The Silence of the Heart. Know your SELF. Whenever you think of yourself, think of your-self as the SELF. Not the I Thought. Not the personal self, but as the Supreme Energy. Sat Chit Ananda. Nirvana. You are That. If you really believed you are That, you would be in total peace. There would be no- thing in this world that can ever disturb you. You would have no doubts. You would have Unalloyed Happiness, total joy. It would make no difference what your body is going through, or what thoughts come into your mind. Or what people are doing, or are not doing, who is right, who is wrong, who is enlightened, who is not. You would never think of things like this.

When you think you are human, you have duality to contend with. Right and wrong, healthy or sick, rich or poor, happy or sad, and the rest of it. But, when you have transcended this, you see yourself in a completely different light.

YOU Are the Light That Shineth in the Darkness

You see your SELF as the light. The Light that Shineth in the darkness. The Eternal Glow that can never diminish. Omnipresence, All Pervading. YOU are that One. YOU have always been that One. You are not what you think you are when you are sad. When you are angry. When you are upset. This is a lie. There is something within you that knows the Truth. That is the Truth. You are That.

Source: 'Silence of the Heart'
Robert Adams

Unseeking Seeker

29-07-2019, 04:39 PM

You are realization itself. It is your real nature.

The reason I’m sharing these five steps with you is because the five steps are part of the personal self.

The ego, the I-thought, the five steps are involved in them.

When we work on the five steps in the relative world we become ourselves, awakened and free.

The first step is: Prayer and devotion.
The second step is: Effortless No-Thought State.
The third step is: Division of Light and Sound.
The fourth step is: The Void, and,
The fifth step is: Bliss.

We’ll begin with the first step.

In the beginning when one first starts out on the path and even when one is on the path for quite a while, prayer and meditation or prayer and devotion are very important.

You become devoted to God who is within you and you pray to God within yourself.

You must therefore begin to totally surrender, give up everything to God, forget about your troubles, forget about the world, just give it up.

~Robert Adams – T98: The Five Steps To Self Realization

ImthatIm

29-07-2019, 06:58 PM

Just thought I would add a link to a series of satsangs of Robert Adams
if anyone is interested in it.(Over 3.5 thousand pages)

https://www.academia.edu/7410648/Robert_Adams_Transcripts

[Five steps to Self realization] starts on page 1799 not 1762 like the table of contents says.

Unseeking Seeker

30-07-2019, 03:32 AM

Tara5

30-07-2019, 07:14 AM

Tara5

30-07-2019, 07:24 AM

Tara5

30-07-2019, 07:26 AM

You must therefore begin to totally surrender, give up everything to God, forget about your troubles, forget about the world, just give it up.

~Robert Adams – T98: The Five Steps To Self Realization

:hug3: :hug3:

Tara5

30-07-2019, 07:27 AM

Tara5

30-07-2019, 07:29 AM

“You look at the movie and you see all kinds of dastardly things going on. But then you catch yourself and you say, "It's only a movie! It's not the truth." And so it is with life. You observe everything that's going on in life, you watch, you look, you see. Yet you never react. You're never for or against. You understand, and this makes you free.” :love4:

Robert Adams, Silence Of The Heart

God-Like

30-07-2019, 08:15 AM

[QUOTE=God-Like]
What I am saying is that concluding that I am has nothing to do with the body is a mental / intellectual exercise it's not something realized .

You are mixing up the head and the heart because you want it to fit in with your paradigm and with your portrayal of Adams.

Do you understand that coming to conclusions about reality and about oneself requires mental / intellectual relations, even if one recites poetry or declares all is Love?

Our mind is finite...it either exists in the past or in the future...Now you tell me, can a limited mind understand Limitless...?

No, the mind can't understand this phenomenon...mind evaporates that time

In regards to both of us singing from a different hymn sheet, we will probably both run out of hymns shortly lol .

In that case, sing from the same ( same means non-duality) hymn sheet, and the Truth will set you free :wink:

I am not sure that there has been any headway while you continue to see through rose coloured spectacles.

I don't wear rose-tinted-glasses....i see the Truth without the barrier of the Rose-coloured-Spectacles, just as it is....

You seem to think that you can have nothing to do with this body or this world, be unattached, unconditioned and function without entertaining any form of self identity.

This is so way off base it's borderline bonkers .. :)

Of course, I know this is my-body.....Have a profound respect for this body...I honor her, I listen to her, I LOVE this body....But, i don't IDENTIFY with this body...

And, there is a huge difference between LOVE and just being ATTACHED....

I have tried to explain the differences between mindful conclusions and realizations, direct knowings and realizations but no-one wants to admit to them.

This is because of the devotion and peeps only want to see what their beliefs allow. It is very difficult to let these restraints go because it in a way shapes their reality.

There is Nothing Wrong with Devotion....There are four main paths to salvation : Bhakti Yoga (devotion/love) is one of the only and easiest yogic paths to enlightenment.
My mums fella's mum (bit of a tongue twister I know) preached the bible to him and his bro and sister all his life, made him go to sunday school, join a church choir and she made his life a living hell.

60 years later she saw through the bible and gave the church up. She never said sorry to her children for what she put them through.

I have seen what false beliefs do to people and it never ends well, the greater you hold on to false concepts the greater the disappointment.
x dazzle

Believing is not Trusting...Trust is not Faith...Trust is inner-flowering..
I trust Ramana/Robert (unconditionally)...Coz I trust my Knowing :smile: ...

Your not really addressing my line of thought/s lol . I say that there requires mental / intellectual relations in order to conclude that you have nothing to do with the body or this world and you reply with what you have . You speak about the mind existing in the past or the future and what is limited and unlimited . All your doing is concluding more and more stuff that is mentally and intellectually infused in order to somehow wriggle out of the mental and intellectual reasoning that you have and Adams has demonstrated.

This is how conversations go in these instances because one becomes blinded by there beliefs so they make up more and more stuff in order to try and make their beliefs fit in with reality as it is or as they say it is. It is like the flat earther's trying to make fit their belief in that the earth is flat.

Your not admitting to yourself or to me that your conclusions are mind based, fused with mental and intellectual reasonings.

What you are speaking about is not realized is it . What is realized, is not anything that relates to time, space and the infinite, the mind-body or this world.

Until you admit that or try and understand that, then you are seeing through the rose tinted blinkers I spoke about yesterday..

You mentioned earlier about Adams teachings that touch your heart in reflection of truth, but many people's hearts are touched watching a sad movie, doesn't make what is happening true tho ..

It makes no sense to me for you to say that you know it's your body but you don't identify with your body . How can you know it's your body if you don't identify with it. How can you have nothing to do with the body and yet have profound respect for it . None of it makes any sense to me . All this confusion built upon a belief that has been concocted in mind that the intellect has made some kind of sense of ..

x daz x

God-Like

30-07-2019, 08:17 AM

[QUOTE=God-Like]Many spiritual teachings regard the body as a temple . There is unity in all aspects of self on a mind-body-spirit-soul level / experience.

Even, i treat my body as a sacred temple...BUT

I am a healer at heart and I work on many others and I work on myself .

What kinda work? Chakra healing?

I do so because I understand the relationship between what I am and the mind-body-spirit-soul experience .

Now if you supposedly believe that you have nothing to do with the body then you would not do anything bodily related .

Can you tell me that Adams went about his business in regards to life experience unkept and naked and didn't eat or drink?

He was married and had two children, how can a non self identified individual that has nothing to do with the body and the world entertain a marriage lol .

Maybe, you don't know...but the body has its destiny to fulfil(karma)...Bhagavan Ramana has said, Everything is predetermined....

Your questions, my answers...
My questions, your answers....everything is predetermined..Everything...period!

Do you understand the nature of self identification in order to function in this world?

Do you know that in order to identify with your own children and wife you need to identify with yourself.

Not necessarily...ever watched actors playing the multiple roles in the same play or movie?

We are all actors, life is a drama...and we are playing our multiple roles...The script is pre-written.

To suggest that you have nothing to do with this world or this body but still groom the body, get married, have sex, have children, drink beer and eat pizza then there is a serious level of confusion and denial present .

It's no good talking about the absence of self identity while engaging in it .

When they say, they have nothing to do with this world...it simply means....the WATCHER has become stronger...

Again, you can't treat your body like a temple while having nothing to do with it . It makes no sense at all .

You are welcome to explain how it is so.

My healing work involves many aspects, many energies, guides that work in specific fields.

It really depends on the situation at hand.

In regards to karma I have an understanding of it in relation to our experiences, but karma doesn't explain away that if you believe you have nothing to do with this world or the body then why would you get married and have children.

Again your reply in regards to karma doesn't address my line of thought/s regarding Adams actions in life. It's like you are brushing what I am saying under the carpet .

Adams brushing teeth, putting on a clean shirt and tie for his wedding involves him self identifying himself in reflection of his wife and what marriage means, and what personal love means to him. You can't have all these reflections and knowings while in the same breath saying he has got nothing to do with any of it . It's all ego / self related through identification.

Nothing you have said or implied refutes this at all. Your putting on the blinkers again ..

In regards to the actors analogy, again, what you are saying doesn't address my line of thought. What you said doesn't negate the fact that you need to self identify in order to get married lol . I think you think we are just preprogrammed robots lol

When you say the watcher becomes stronger that is just creating a divide between what you are as the watcher and the world. Why would anyone want to put distance between one aspect of what you are and another. That doesn't reflect union at all. It reflects separation on some level.

The witness only exists because self does . When self is no more there is no more witnessing. When people try and prise apart the witness from the world they are trying to outbox their shadow. It's futile to do this. It's a dog chasing there tail.

x daz x

muffin

30-07-2019, 08:56 AM

muffin

30-07-2019, 09:38 AM

Somethings always stay with us.

I can never take someone happiness away, to prove a point

Have fun daz and remember patience is a virtue :wink:

God-Like

30-07-2019, 09:49 AM

Somethings always stay with us.

I can never take someone happiness away, to prove a point

Have fun daz and remember patience is a virtue :wink:

It's a difficult one isn't it, depending on how one looks at it .

If you are a teacher and you write books in order to spread the world and educate the masses then you hold in your hands a great responsibility.

There are many vulnerable people out there in the big wide world that are suffering and utterly lost unto themselves.

Now as said before, peeps can resonate with what these teacher/guru's say and they can take that onboard and start to think they have nothing to do with this world or the body even thought there is an obvious attachment / union with their awareness of such on an emotional / mental / spiritual level.

Now one can question their own awareness based upon what another teacher has said and brainwash you into thinking that no-one is here and what is here is just an illusion or what you are is nothing more than a projected predetermined robot in disguise.

Now what is for better or worse, believing that you are an illusory predetermined robot in disguise or questioning the nature of that conclusion.

Would one be happier for believing that they are figments of ones imagination for example or would one be happier knowing that they truly exist as an individual that is real and that which is not separate from all that is and that there is no need to distance themselves from anything ..

x daz x

muffin

30-07-2019, 10:39 AM

It's a difficult one isn't it, depending on how one looks at it .

If you are a teacher and you write books in order to spread the world and educate the masses then you hold in your hands a great responsibility.

There are many vulnerable people out there in the big wide world that are suffering and utterly lost unto themselves.

Now as said before, peeps can resonate with what these teacher/guru's say and they can take that onboard and start to think they have nothing to do with this world or the body even thought there is an obvious attachment / union with their awareness of such on an emotional / mental / spiritual level.

Now one can question their own awareness based upon what another teacher has said and brainwash you into thinking that no-one is here and what is here is just an illusion or what you are is nothing more than a projected predetermined robot in disguise.

Now what is for better or worse, believing that you are an illusory predetermined robot in disguise or questioning the nature of that conclusion.

Would one be happier for believing that they are figments of ones imagination for example or would one be happier knowing that they truly exist as an individual that is real and that which is not separate from all that is and that there is no need to distance themselves from anything ..

x daz x

Good afternoon daz :smile:

If I was a teacher there would be no theory, you would be out in the thick of it learning it for yourself. The only reason I could think of for been there is to pick you up and dust you off if you fell down, ready for the next round.

Strange that was my parents down to a tee, always there at the bottom of the hill, dust muffin off so he could get in to more trouble :biggrin:

The thing is I've never look at books/teachers for help, only to see where they are, call it a gauge to go by.

Thats how they done things not saying it right or wrong, I know it's not for me I'm not going to live my life thru them, I have my own life to live and my answers lie within.

Thats why I said teachers have to many hang ups, words are easy, actions are another and pure intent is a totally different ball game,
.
Don't ask me about the last part it just pop in

God-Like

30-07-2019, 12:28 PM

Good afternoon daz :smile:

If I was a teacher there would be no theory, you would be out in the thick of it learning it for yourself. The only reason I could think of for been there is to pick you up and dust you off if you fell down, ready for the next round.

Strange that was my parents down to a tee, always there at the bottom of the hill, dust muffin off so he could get in to more trouble :biggrin:

The thing is I've never look at books/teachers for help, only to see where they are, call it a gauge to go by.

Thats how they done things not saying it right or wrong, I know it's not for me I'm not going to live my life thru them, I have my own life to live and my answers lie within.

Thats why I said teachers have to many hang ups, words are easy, actions are another and pure intent is a totally different ball game,
.
Don't ask me about the last part it just pop in

Sure I can res with all of that .

It is in one respect all about living life and seeing for oneself how one's actions reflect upon themselves and other's.

Simply watch and observe how things unfold and how one learns through experience ..

This is part of the parcel of evolving spiritually so to speak .

Seeing how being selfless and being selfish reflects in how we feel within etc ..

My mum as said to Tara. lived by example, lived true to herself and was Self realized .

Her wisdom about life was in abundance with very few words said .

Everything always reflected back to self and that in itself is pure gold .

There was no talk of no-one is here or this world is an illusion or there is some witness that has nothing to do with the mind-body.

There was a deep sense of love for all things but it didn't mean that she became a pushover or suffer fools gladly.

So many unusual concepts nowadays floating about regarding bliss bunny teachers who speak about reality in a certain way but don't actually seem to live life that way .

The hang ups that you mention are the contradictions and the things that don't seem to add up in my eyes regarding what other's at times say .

It's ever so convenient for there to be nothing relating to what you are of the body and the world but carry on regardless as if there is ..

This is one of the biggest walk, talk issues that I see that is plain as it is day .

I have heard a manner of all answers in response to this, the most popular is that we might as well enjoy life even if it's not real ..

That's just a self preference that derives through ego, something that is concluded via an identity of self, something that such folks deny having lol .

All one needs to do is question the teachings and have an understanding of self and no self, mind and no mind and Self realization.

Easier said than done lol, but what does a peep do when they become influenced prior to finding it all out for themselves ..

I suppose there will only be suffering had within delusion, a bit like the swan being told it was an ugly duck before it realized for himself that he was indeed a swan .

x dazzle x

ajay00

30-07-2019, 01:00 PM

Unseeking Seeker

30-07-2019, 04:12 PM

***

June 27, 1991 Satsang Robert Adams

For a Jnani who has realized the identity of his inner being with the infinite Brahman.

There is no rebirth, no migration, not even liberation. For he is already liberated.
He is firmly established in an experience of absolute existence, knowledge, bliss, the sat-chit-ananda atman.

The continued existence of the world and of his own body appears to the Jnani only as an illusion. The appearance of which he cannot remove, but which cannot further deceive him until the time when after the decease of the body he wanders not forth but remains where he is and what he is and eternally was.

The first principle of all beings and things. The original eternal pure free Brahman. While living and even when the body falls dead the Jnani rests in his own essential nature. His own swarupa that is all full, all pure, timeless, consciousness and bliss.

The following assertions made by a Jnani constitute his own deepest convictions and experience.

I am infinite, imperishable, self-luminous, self-existent,
I am beginning-less, endless, decay-less, birthless, deathless. Never was I born, I am ever free, perfect, independent, I alone am.
I pervade the entire universe. I am all permeating and interpenetrating. I am supreme peace and freedom absolute.

A Jnani lives forever.
He has attained life everlasting.
Cravings torture him not.
Sins stain him not.
Birth and death touch him not.
He is free from all cravings and longings.
He ever rests in his own sat-chit-ananda swarupa.
He sees the one infinite Self in all and all in the infinite Self which is his being.
He remains forever as the infinite Self of consciousness and delight.

***

Tara5

31-07-2019, 04:48 AM

Your not really addressing my line of thought/s lol . I say that there requires mental / intellectual relations in order to conclude that you have nothing to do with the body or this world
Please don't dodge the question
Okay, I'll say it again.

Can a finite mind understand an infinite Consciousness?

If yes, then how?
If not, then why?

His marriage, sex, personal love questions can wait...Right?

Tara5

31-07-2019, 04:50 AM

This is such an insightful saying of Robert Adams. Thank you for this. :smile:
Regarding reactivity , I have created a similar thread in this regard...
http://www.spiritualforums.com/vb/showthread.php?t=63983 Thanks, dear Ajay :hug3:

Tara5

31-07-2019, 04:56 AM

Play the game with yourself.
Whenever you think of another person, whenever you think of a problem, whenever you think of a beautiful sunset, catch yourself.
Ask yourself,

To whom has this come?
It has come to me.
I perceive it.
Before you ask, ‘Who am I?

Remember to realize that you are not the ‘I’.
The ‘I’ that perceives is not you.
In other words, What you must do from now on is, when you refer to ‘I’, you’re not talking about yourself. :hug3:

Robert Adams

God-Like

31-07-2019, 07:36 AM

Please don't dodge the question
Okay, I'll say it again.

Can a finite mind understand an infinite Consciousness?

If yes, then how?
If not, then why?

His marriage, sex, personal love questions can wait...Right?

Your question as already explained just illustrates more and more mental and intellectual relations and conclusions .

In the same way that an individual that has limited awareness cannot be aware of all that is, just the same as an ice cube cannot maintain it's crystalised structure in a hot oven.

Getting married through being self identified happens just as the ice that melts happens.

It's a matter of fact isn't it .

Why dress it up in a way where it is believed not to happen just because there is something concluded in mind that gives one the impression of the opposite happening. How is it concluded? This is what I have consistently mentioned.

You see you are using the finite mind and the infinite in such a way where it is perhaps impossible to understand the reality as we see it but equally so Adams is coming from a finite mind perspective also.

So how can there be any truth in that the mind-body-world reality has nothing to do with him because like said, all it is, is a mindful conclusion and it isn't realized.

All that you are doing is using such premises against your own beliefs.

It would be beneficial if you could speak about what you think Self realization refers too and what you think some finite mindful conclusion refers too.

At present as I see it, all your doing is passing off what I see as mindfulness as a realization of Truth when it isn't .

This is why it doesn't add up because peoples actions don't match their conclusions, because if you realized you was a swan you wouldn't behave like a duck if you get my meaning.

Now what I am seeing is people running around getting married and such likes, self identifying within the process of life while proclaiming to be free of identity ..

It doesn't work and you haven't said anything to refute what I have said . You either don't understand the process of self and no self, identity and no identity or you are just ignoring what you actually believe so it fits in with what other teachers are saying.

What would be beneficial also is to share with us your understanding of self identity and how you can function and get married and have children and brush your teeth without having this sense of oneself identified . All this jazz is based upon conditioning to certain degrees and you can't be conditioned without a sense of self identity. Like already explained, even to identify that one has no self identity is actually self identifying. This is why it's bonkers!!

Perhaps when one is devoted they can't see why it is or how it is so ..

x daz x

ajay00

31-07-2019, 08:19 AM

Like already explained, even to identify that one has no self identity is actually self identifying.

That is a mental identification, that involves the process of thought.

Awareness or no-mind has no identification because the process of thought is not involved. There is only the Self or Being.

God-Like

31-07-2019, 08:56 AM

That is a mental identification, that involves the process of thought.

Yes, just as your reply is a mental thought process also.

Awareness or no-mind has no identification because the process of thought is not involved. There is only the Self or Being.

No mind has no identification associated to anyone or anything I would agree with but we are speaking about Adams of the mind here and not beyond mind or no mind as you put it.

We are speaking about a man that marries his wife, and identifies with her and his children, a man that identifies with all the other teachers, mentors and guru's that he has studied and befriended.

There is no point speaking about beyond mind or no mind in these instances because all these experiences that Adams has and you and I have are of the mind .

This is where I think peeps get confused because there is the beingness of beyond mind so as soon as one is aware of the mind-body-world they think it is illusory or not real or dream like and no-one is actually here. This is just the mind trying to make sense of what is beyond sense.

As stated to Tara, to think that there is no-one here of the mind that has got nothing to do with the mind-body-world-reality is a conclusion made. It is not some Truthful Realization.

One can conclude post-realization that what they are is both of this world and beyond, because the is only what you are, that being another conclusion.

The realisation as already said doesn't reveal anything about the texts and dogma written in the bible or the scriptures .

x daz x

ajay00

31-07-2019, 09:16 AM

No mind has no identification associated to anyone or anything I would agree with but we are speaking about Adams of the mind here and not beyond mind or no mind as you put it.

Adams here is also speaking of Awareness or no-mind or witnessing, which is all one and the same.

The mind is but thoughts and the emotions they generate, which has a beginning and an end, and are different from the Self or Awareness or pure consciousness.

Awareness is the background for all of our experiences, and yet in our ordinary day-to-day lives, it is often obscured by habituated thoughts and emotions. Most teaching and meditation practices are designed to cut through this habituated seeing into the Background of Awareness which is our innate nature and which is, in and of itself, Clear Seeing. -- Metta Zetty

We are speaking about a man that marries his wife, and identifies with her and his children, a man that identifies with all the other teachers, mentors and guru's that he has studied and befriended.

There is no point speaking about beyond mind or no mind in these instances because all these experiences that Adams has and you and I have are of the mind .

As stated earlier, Adams is talking about the Self-awareness or pure consciousness, and not the mind.

Consciousness minus conceptualization is the eternal Brahman the absolute; consciousness plus conceptualization is thought. -- Yoga Vasistha

Thinking and consciousness are not synonymous. Thinking is only a small aspect of consciousness. Thought cannot exist without consciousness, but consciousness does not need thought. -- Eckhart Tolle

This is where I think peeps get confused because there is the beingness of beyond mind so as soon as one is aware of the mind-body-world they think it is illusory or not real or dream like and no-one is actually here. This is just the mind trying to make sense of what is beyond sense.

This is just mental entanglement and confusion.

The aware or one centred in Being, is content with Being and does not tie itself in knots with thinking or what their mind is producing.

Your true nature is awareness and not what your mind is producing. - Burt Harding

As stated to Tara, to think that there is no-one here of the mind that has got nothing to do with the mind-body-world-reality is a conclusion made. It is not some Truthful Realization.

Leave the mind and focus on no-mind. But you are unable to do so, because of lack of understanding of meditation and its practice. Hence the incessant focus on mental gymnastics, which are infinite in its courses of thought and leads nowhere.

The Self can be experienced and understood only in thoughtless awareness.

One can conclude post-realization realize that what they are is both of this world and beyond, because the is only what you are, that being another conclusion.

Realisation is the conclusion. There is no post-realization, which actually means that the egoic mind is still in control, and creating its own conditioned opinions incessantly.

The realisation as already said doesn't reveal anything about the texts and dogma written in the bible or the scriptures .

It is the realized who make the scriptures, so that the unrealized can transcend the mind to the Self or Awareness intuitively and easily.

Other than that, there is no other purpose for it.

Zen actually exhorts advanced practicioners to burn the scriptures so as to divorce all mental attachments to the scriptures and live them in mindful practice instead.

Phaelyn

31-07-2019, 09:29 AM

Can i observe the candle without the Me?
Yes!
I can observe the candle without any 'past knowledge'...without Naming it..
watching becomes an ego-based process when we Watch with a Conditioned-Mind.... That reminds me of the Yogananda chant... who is in my temple. All the doors do open themselves; All the lights do light themselves. Darkness like a dark bird flies away, oh, flies away.

God-Like

31-07-2019, 10:09 AM

Adams here is also speaking of Awareness or no-mind or witnessing, which is all one and the same.

The mind is but thoughts and the emotions they generate, which has a beginning and an end, and are different from the Self or Awareness or pure consciousness.

It's not the same. Witnessing is self related. This is why beyond self there is no witness.

For some reason you guys want to prise apart the witness from self. You can't do that.

The witness is not something that can exist beyond self.

I could quote you something that Ramana say's that will emphasise what I am saying, then you could quote another teacher and another teacher.

What does this tell you?

All you are doing is emphasising my point and all you are doing is conceptualising more and more intellectual stuff . You speak about Self and thoughtless awareness on one hand and yet you are quoting many teachers again, bringing more and more knowledge to the table. Everything on the table that you present are mindful conclusions made.

You can agree with me on this or not, but there are no thoughts about the world or self in thoughtless awareness, so all you have to do, is do the math.

What comes about via a thoughtful conclusion about Self that is beyond thought is a conclusion made that derives through making sense of that which is beyond sense.

There is no point addressing your other thought's because all I would be doing is countering your thoughts or the thoughts of the other teachers you are quoting by concluding more and more stuff .

I am not so much here to debate more and more stuff, I am here to illustrate the nature of the mindfulness that reflect all these conclusions .

Tara and myself are speaking about experiencing life and making sense of the physical reality as we see it, it's not about no mind, thoughtless awareness.

I am not getting drawn into that aspect because it doesn't relate to what we are talking about, they are completely different aspects ..

I don't know why you are even bringing it up, it has no relevance.

x daz x

ajay00

31-07-2019, 11:01 AM

It's not the same. Witnessing is self related. This is why beyond self there is no witness.
There is a higher Self and smaller self in nondualistic and advaitan philosophy.
The Self corresponds to awareness while the smaller self corresponds to ego or mind.
Witnessing can be said to be Self related thus, not self or ego-related.
I could quote you something that Ramana say's that will emphasise what I am saying, then you could quote another teacher and another teacher. Do quote then !
I am interested in any of these master's sayings that corresponds to your thought process ! But it is highly unlikely.

What comes about via a thoughtful conclusion about Self that is beyond thought is a conclusion made that derives through making sense of that which is beyond sense. Lol...
If you are truly anchored in the Self, you will be content with it due to its peaceful state , rather than complicating the nature of the Self (which is simplicity embodied) with all such mental gymnastics and contortions.

The mind, is usually the culprit, which complicates the whole thing due to its own inherent complexity, and does so with everything else.

God-Like

31-07-2019, 11:39 AM

There is a higher Self and smaller self in nondualistic and advaitan philosophy.

The Self corresponds to awareness while the smaller self corresponds to ego or mind.

Witnessing can be said to be Self related thus, not self or ego-related.

Do quote then !

I am interested in any of these master's sayings that corresponds to your thought process ! But it is highly unlikely.

Lol...

If you are truly anchored in the Self, you will be content with it due to its peaceful state , rather than complicating the nature of the Self (which is simplicity embodied) with all such mental gymnastics and contortions.

The mind, is usually the culprit, which complicates the whole thing due to its own inherent complexity, and does so with everything else.

The quote

The witness is not the person. The person comes into being when there is a basis for it, an organism, and a body. In it, the Absolute is reflected as awareness. Pure awareness becomes self-awareness. When there is a Self, self-awareness is the witness. When there is no self to witness, there is no witnessing either. It is very simple; it is the presence of the person that complicates. See that there is no such thing as a permanently separate person and all becomes clear. Awareness, mind, matter are of one reality in its two aspects as immovable and movable and three attributes of inertia, energy and harmony. Awareness becomes consciousness when it has an object. The object changes all the time. In consciousness there is movement; awareness by itself is motionless and timeless, here and now.

You see awareness becomes consciousness when there is an object. The object in this instance is the mind-body-self-persona . self awareness is the witness. When there is no self to witness there is no witnessing either.

So what is happening here is that we have Adams and such likes who try and prise apart the witness from the self while still witnessing lol.

There is only witnessing happening while there is self, while awareness becomes consciousness in the presence of a mind-body-object.

While there is self awareness, self awareness is the witness .

You can't divide or separate the witness from the self aware experience of the mind-body-world.

Again let me reiterate my thoughts about how you perceive Self for all you are doing is stating more and more conclusions about that which is beyond conclusion.

Please tell me how you have derived at your conclusions of Self that is beyond thought. You spoke about thoughtless awareness, so i am genuinely interested in how you have concluded what you have. I don't want to hear what other teachers have said, I want to understand how you yourself personally have come to your conclusions about that which is beyond words and thoughts in reflection of this world / reality.

What realization did you have that brought about all your knowledge?

x daz x

ajay00

31-07-2019, 12:49 PM

The quote
The witness is not the person. The person comes into being when there is a basis for it, an organism, and a body. In it, the Absolute is reflected as awareness. Pure awareness becomes self-awareness. When there is a Self, self-awareness is the witness. When there is no self to witness, there is no witnessing either. It is very simple; it is the presence of the person that complicates. See that there is no such thing as a permanently separate person and all becomes clear. Awareness, mind, matter are of one reality in its two aspects as immovable and movable and three attributes of inertia, energy and harmony. Awareness becomes consciousness when it has an object. The object changes all the time. In consciousness there is movement; awareness by itself is motionless and timeless, here and now. This is a statement of Nisargadatta Maharaj whom you had been criticizing in the Hinduism forums. Now you are quoting him. Very well...:D
You see awareness becomes consciousness when there is an object. The object in this instance is the mind-body-self-persona . self awareness is the witness. When there is no self to witness there is no witnessing either.
Here awareness is the Self, while consciousness with an object is the ego or false self, created by identification with the external object through attachment or desire in the form of craving or aversion.
Nisargadatta is actually differentiating between Self/awareness/ pure consciousness and ordinary human consciousness or self which is defiled by desires in the form of cravings and aversions.
The witness is not the person. The person comes into being when there is a basis for it, an organism, and a body. In it, the Absolute is reflected as awareness. Pure awareness becomes self-awareness. When there is a Self, self-awareness is the witness. When there is no self to witness, there is no witnessing either. It is very simple; it is the presence of the person that complicates.
So what is happening here is that we have Adams and such likes who try and prise apart the witness from the self while still witnessing lol. What actually we have here is a misinterpretation of Nisargadatta's teaching.

Niz himself states, "The witness is not the person. The person comes into being when there is a basis for it, an organism, and a body." He is referring to the witness as the conscious entity and not the mind-body complex.

The Self and Awareness and the Witness are all one and the same, though the Witness is used in association or reference with the mind-body complex, as it is the witnessing of various thoughts and emotions in the mind-body dispassionately, that breaks the compulsive identification with the mind and body, and brings a distance between them.

ajay00

31-07-2019, 12:55 PM

God-like, I appreciate your interest and knowledge in nonduality, but I would ask you to put it in fruitful practice rather than indulge in mere futile intellectual debates which goes nowhere.

Practice of awareness/mindfulness brings great good at all levels, and you will find a sort of immunity from negative energies and entities too.

Practice of it in the midst of nature or in the beach, can also help resolve past traumatic experiences and brings healing along with joy and peace in the long run.

As the saying goes, 'An ounce of practice is worth more than tonnes of theory.'

God-Like

31-07-2019, 01:14 PM

This is a statement of Nisargadatta Maharaj whom you had been criticizing in the Hinduism forums. Now you are quoting him. Very well...:D
Here awareness is the Self, while consciousness with an object is the ego or false self, created by identification with the external object through attachment or desire in the form of craving or aversion.

Nisargadatta is actually differentiating between Self/awareness/ pure consciousness and ordinary human consciousness or self which is defiled by desires in the form of cravings and aversions.
What actually we have here is a misinterpretation of Nisargadatta's teaching.

Niz himself states, "The witness is not the person. The person comes into being when there is a basis for it, an organism, and a body." He is referring to the witness as the conscious entity and not the mind-body complex.

The Self and Awareness and the Witness are all one and the same, though the Witness is used in association or reference with the mind-body complex, as it is the witnessing of various thoughts and emotions in the mind-body dispassionately, that breaks the compulsive identification with the mind and body, and brings a distance between them.
Yes I am actually aware that it is a niz quote, the quote was listed as a Ramana link from where I copied it, I have quoted this before under Ramana's name so didn't want to confuse matters, it's not really important who said what.

In regards to criticizing niz, I am allowed to agree with certain aspects of his teachings and not other's . It's that simple and straightforward, I probably would agree with some of what Adams is saying in parts also, all I did was pick out something that Tara posted and took it form there.

Niz doesn't refer self in this quote as being false at all and doesn't mention cravings or desires .
He speaks about the relationship between awareness becoming consciousness in the presence of an object.
He speaks about while there is self awareness, self awareness is the witness.
So you can't be the witness itself of life experience that is not of self .
self awareness is the witness. so how can the awareness of self be not of the self.
self only is, because of the union / fusion of the aware / consciousness of an mind-body referred to as self.
When there is no self awareness there is no witnessing. It is there in black and white.
This means that the witness exists for as long as self does. You can't have self awareness without self.

You haven't answered me in regards to your realizations had that reflect your own conclusions.

I mentioned niz's quote because I have a similar understanding based upon what I concluded about self and no self, mind and no mind.
We can agree to disagree on what niz actually mean't by that quote that is not a problem, I am more interested where the information comes from. Which is the whole point in me speaking with Tara.

All you keep doing is speaking about how things are without saying how you have realized that or concluded that for yourself.
You haven't addressed this as yet .

x daz x

ajay00

31-07-2019, 02:41 PM

Yes I am actually aware that it is a niz quote, the quote was listed as a Ramana link from where I copied it, I have quoted this before under Ramana's name so didn't want to confuse matters, it's not really important who said what. Well, I am glad that you respect Niz enough now to quote him and not just criticize him . :wink:

In regards to criticizing niz, I am allowed to agree with certain aspects of his teachings and not other's . It's that simple and straightforward, I probably would agree with some of what Adams is saying in parts also, all I did was pick out something that Tara posted and took it form there. You seem to do it with Eckhart Tolle as well. Do you think there is a hidden pattern in all this !
Niz doesn't refer self in this quote as being false at all and doesn't mention cravings or desires .
Thatj's becoz u don't know nondualist philosophy well.

The smaller self is the ego and mind as distinguished from the higher Self or Awareness or pure consciousness.
You have just misinterpreted and misunderstood the whole thing, as usual. :wink:

ajay00

31-07-2019, 02:44 PM

You engaged with me so I replied to you and asked you questions relating to the origin of your realizations / conclusions to which you haven't answered .
When peeps don't actually answer me, then futile intellectual debates as you put it go nowhere fast.
Our conversations always reflect this somewhat.
I ask you about how information that is of the mind comes via thoughtless awareness and you don't answer .
All you do is refer to more conclusions .
This is your doing .
x daz x The nondualist philosophy is very simple and it is something to be practiced and not merely intellectually debated upon, which is ridiculous.

It is like having a treasure map and holding neverending debates and discussions on it for years instead of finding the treasure, while others get their hands on it. :cool:

Phaelyn

04-08-2019, 05:40 PM

Niz himself states, "The witness is not the person.

The nondualist philosophy is very simple and it is something to be practiced

Since you can only live/be it and there is no way to write or speak about it, that does make it very simple.

ajay00

05-08-2019, 02:41 AM

Since you can only live/be it and there is no way to write or speak about it, that does make it very simple.

Well stated. :smile:

Nondualist philosophy is practically manifest in mindful living or present moment awareness which brings in nondual perception.

It is the simplest thing, but made complicated by the complex mind and intellect trying to project and impose its conditioned views or likes and dislikes on existence. Instead of enjoying a flower's natural beauty, one would be analytically and verbally dissecting it into its components out of past habit.

https://janfrazierteachings.com/being-conscious/

Alex***

05-08-2019, 03:15 AM

Realization cannot be intellectualized; it can only be encountered in Silence.

Shivani Devi

07-08-2019, 01:13 PM

Please excuse my interjection here...too many posts to quote, so I shall just reply generally.

I have read through this thread, have never heard of Robert Adams, may look him up at a later time and I thank Tara for her recommendations.

I just posted to say that I don't consider Ajay's remarks to be derogatory or insulting to anyone.

As an old-school, traditional Advaita Vedantin according to Shankaracharya, I can fully see his point here.

For any discussion involving an "observer" and a "Self" and trying to use Dualistic terms to describe Non-Duality, the fact remains...we can introspect enough to answer the fundamental question "Who am I?" only to come up with "I am the Observer" or "I am the Self" or "I am That", or "I am Oneness" which only gives rise to another question "okay then, so what is this Observer/Self/That/Oneness which you are then? Not only that, what is it that realises it as being such? please explain this to me" and, of course, nobody can... probably because there is "nobody here" TO explain it...so who is writing all this stuff then? Neti Neti...

This is why the whole experience of Non Duality is just that...an experience, in which there is no "experience-er" and nothing to be experienced because existence is absolute, so how can anybody just "be" that?

If we are going into the whole Non-Dual philosophy, no association exists between "this thing" and "another thing" because the moment awareness is brought into the equation, Non-Duality just becomes Duality again.

This is by no means a detraction from the topic, nor meant as an insult...it is not to be taken personally by anyone...which seems to be just the thing for a discussion on Non-Duality isn't it?

Unseeking Seeker

07-08-2019, 05:26 PM

***

Hi Shivani!

As many of us on SF have been so blessed to experience oneness and the vibrant void of nothingness (fullness) and beyond and yet back to duality ... well we have already discussed this on other threads (the oneness enigma + kundalini & chakras) I hold the view that both duality as well as non-duality are valid. Valid simply because that is how it is!

Obliquely referring to my post http://www.spiritualforums.com/vb/showpost.php?p=1839827&postcount=58 I’d say based on subsequent reinforcing insights that Hiranyagarbha .... the cosmic womb of singularity is within our head region ... it seems the pituitary gland has something to do with this ... the One splits into two as Shiva & Shakti ... the two unite to fuse as one ... it is an unending pulse.

The limited mind relying upon fragmented thought obviously cannot comprehend this. Moreover, there is nothing to be analysed. We either know it by direct experience or we don’t. Eventually all will.

Yet there is no finality in any such affirmation we may make since new revelations manifest ‘higher’ truths. However, so far, there has been no contradiction to progressions of unfoldments in as radical contradictions.

It would appear that the ‘descent’ into duality, apart from enabling experiencing the ecstatic endless pulse of union & separation & back to union ad infinitum, enables us as a dissolved yet distinct consciousness to operate as absolute awareness in domains of higher vibrational frequency. This is merely a hunch.

Hmmm ... why not just relax and enjoy the ride?

****

Shivani Devi

08-08-2019, 12:05 AM

Quite simply, my friend.

If I were just to "relax and enjoy the ride", I would no longer be able to post on Spiritual Forums.

Unseeking Seeker

08-08-2019, 01:37 AM

“The one Self, the only Self, the absolute reality, consciousness, that self is active within you. When I say, "Active within you," I mean there is no real you the way you ap- pear. There is only the Self appearing as you. In other words there is not the body and you, there is no body. There is only you, the one. If we appear to see bodies, this is like a dream, hallucination. They seem real enough and we react to them, but if we can hold onto the first premise that there is only one Self and I am that, then you'll be careful what you say to another person.”
Robert Adams

Unseeking Seeker

08-08-2019, 01:40 AM

“By inquiring, "To whom does this come? Who sees these things? Where do these things come from? Where does everything come from? Where do I come from? Where does the sky come from? Where do the trees come from?”

If you do this often enough, you will be taking a step backward from this creation. You will become the screen, the screen of life, on which these images project themselves. But you always remember that you are the screen and you're not the images. You will be able to observe the images and smile. You'll see all the images fighting with each other, shooting each other, killing each other, being happy sometimes, being sad sometimes, going through all kinds of experiences. But you will smile and you will not identify with these things anymore. You have risen. You have risen to that place where there is only the screen.

The screen in this instance is boundless space. Boundless space when you look all around you, you see air. It's nice to see the air, and you say this in the air. But it goes fur- ther than air, it's boundless space. Boundless space is the screen of life, consciousness. And everything that you see with your eyes or with your senses is a superimposition on boundless space.”

Robert Adams

Shivani Devi

08-08-2019, 01:46 AM

There's something within you that knows what to do. There is a power greater than you that knows how to take care of you without your help. All you've got to do is to surrender to it. Surrender your thoughts, your mind, your ego, to the current that knows the way. It will take care of you. It will take better care of you than you can ever imagine.

Robert Adams

Unseeking Seeker

09-08-2019, 04:08 AM

***

“But do not mistake this with the body. I am not saying that the body is God. I'm saying that you are God. But I see you as consciousness. I see you as absolute reality, as pure awareness. That is God. If you identify your body with God you're making a big mistake. Therefore when I tell you, "You are God" I am referring to your Self. Not your ego, not your mind and not your body. And when I refer to the term God, or consciousness, or absolute reality, I am referring to omnipresence. So when I say, "I am consciousness" I am not referring to Robert.
I am referring to I-am omnipresence, which includes the whole universe, do you follow that? Everything is consciousness, nothing is left out.”

Robert Adams

Unseeking Seeker

09-08-2019, 11:24 AM

***

“You will soon come to the conclusion that you are infinite space. And instead of observing objects in the world. You will observe the space that the objects seem to be glued onto.

Only the space is real. The space never changes and everything else does. Therefore how can anything that changes be real?“

Robert Adams

***

Unseeking Seeker

12-08-2019, 02:23 PM

***

“Now there's no answer to "Who am I?" When you get to the answer there will be emptiness, a void. You will be of the unborn. But it is not a void like you think. It is not emptiness like you think. For want of a better word you can call it godliness, nirvana, sat- chit-ananda, bliss consciousness, absolute reality.”

Robert Adams

***

Unseeking Seeker

12-08-2019, 03:54 PM

From the book ‘Just the Satsangs’ by Robert Adams downloadable from holybooks.com

Unseeking Seeker

13-08-2019, 05:00 AM

***

“I-am is another word for God, the first name of God. Another word for consciousness, omnipresence is I-am. I feel that I-am not the body nor the mind. I am absolute awareness. I am ultimate oneness. I-am infinite intelligence, nirvana, emptiness, I-am that I-am. I am sat-chit-ananda. I am parabrahman. I was never born and I can never die. I Am That I Am.”

Robert Adams

***

Unseeking Seeker

14-08-2019, 03:08 AM

***

“The first step in spiritual awakening is to realize you're divinely ignorant, and that's not an insult.

The only way to begin to transcend this is to admit to yourself, "I am divinely ignorant and I really do no know what anything is. I really know nothing. I don't know what anything is."

Robert Adams

***

Miss Hepburn

14-08-2019, 04:30 AM

I'm picking up a few things that sound very much like ACIM.
A Course In Miracles.

Unseeking Seeker

14-08-2019, 05:38 AM

Phaelyn

14-08-2019, 09:33 AM

***

“Who am I? I am none other than the Self. Who is the Self? I Am. Who is I Am? Absolute awareness. Who is absolute awareness? None other than the Self. How do I know the Self? Through silence. How do I achieve silence? By knowing the Self. Again, how do I know the Self? By denying everything else and abiding in reality. How do I abide in reality? By keeping still. as a body. And I never had a body as it were. This appearance of body is an optical illusion. I am beyond body, be- yond appearance, beyond thoughts, beyond words. I am the imperishable Self, I am that I am. I am sat-chit-ananda - being, knowledge and bliss. Not now, but every moment of my life, even when I'm not aware of it. Even when my feelings are hurt. Even when I feel depressed. I am still sat-chit- ananda always, in every situation in every condition.”

Robert Adams

***

I would say that a little different.

Who am I? I am none other than the Self. Who is the Self? I Am. Who is I Am? Awareness. Who is awareness? Me. How do I know me? By withdrawing my attention and energy from things that are not me. How do I achieve silence? By not identifying with noise. Again, how do I know the Self? By neither denying nor asserting the mental world and abiding in reality as it is before mind interprets and transforms it. How do I abide in reality? By maintaining awake-ness and awareness of what I am as this body and it's mind lives it's life. For now, I have a body and it's mind. This is no illusion. The illusion is to think of myself AS the body, the appearance, the thoughts and words. I am the imperishable Self, I am that I am. I am sat-chit-ananda - being, knowledge and aware intelligence. Not now, but every moment of my life, even when I'm not aware of myself and am fully focused on what I am not. Even when my feelings are hurt. Even when I feel depressed. I am still sat-chit- ananda always, in every situation in every condition.

Unseeking Seeker

14-08-2019, 12:36 PM

@ Phaelyn ... was that Robert Adams nodding in approval or a trick of our mind? :D

***

“... because your true nature is happiness, your true nature is bliss. When you get rid of the other stuff your true nature shines forth effortlessly.

That's why we call this the pathless path, because there's really no path. There's only a quietness of the mind, following the I to the source. Then all of a sudden you become omnipresence, you become omniscience, you become omnipotence. Then you can say, "I am That I am," but there will be nobody left to say anything really. You will just bask in the sunshine of your love, of your happiness, of your bliss.“

Robert Adams

***

Unseeking Seeker

14-08-2019, 04:57 PM

***

More from Robert Adams ‘Just the Satsangs’

“Ultimate reality, pure intelligence, emptiness, space — that is reality. It is like a gigantic screen that takes up the entire universe. That screen is consciousness, and all the worlds, the planets, the suns, people, are all images on the screen. If the screen weren't there, there could be no images. Therefore, you cannot say that the images are real. They're only real as long as the screen persists. But if the screen is taken away there's no place to show the images. In the same way, your true nature is consciousness, pure consciousness. Your body is superimposed on consciousness. You have made the mistake of identifying yourself with the body and mind. Therefore, the body and mind seems to control your life. But as soon as you switch identities, as soon as you begin to identify with consciousness, everything changes for you. You become happy, peaceful, joyous, blissful. It happens by itself. All you've got to do is to switch identities, identify with reality.”

***

Miss Hepburn

14-08-2019, 06:04 PM

“Ultimate reality, pure intelligence, emptiness, space — that is reality. It is like a gigantic screen that takes up the entire universe. That screen is consciousness, and all the worlds, the planets, the suns, people, are all images on the screen.

If the screen weren't there, there could be no images.
Therefore, you cannot say that the images are real. They're only real as long as the screen persists. But if the screen is taken away there's no place to show the images. In the same way, your true nature is consciousness, pure consciousness.

Your body is superimposed on consciousness.
You have made the mistake of identifying yourself with the body and mind. Therefore, the body and mind seems to control your life.
But as soon as you switch identities, as soon as you begin to identify with consciousness, everything changes for you.
You become happy, peaceful, joyous, blissful. It happens by itself. All you've got to do is to switch identities, identify with reality.”Wow, what a great way to describe it!

Tara5

15-08-2019, 07:20 AM

Watch yourself become depressed.
Watch yourself become angry.
Do not deny it, but observe it.
And if you observe yourself correctly in that calm way, you can ask yourself,
"Who becomes angry?
Who is feeling depressed?"
And follow it through.
Do this over and over and over again, as many times as you have to.:hug3:

Robert Adams

Tara5

15-08-2019, 07:28 AM

Your Self is like the screen.
It is never affected by problems of any kind or any sort.
The problems come upon the screen,
they come and they go,
but you remain the Self forever.
You never change.

How do you begin to become this way?
Every time you think you have a problem you must ask yourself,
"To whom does the problem come?
After all, I am not the doer.
I am not the body. I am not the mind.
So to whom does the problem come?"

And of course the answer will be, "To me.
I feel this problem.
The problem comes to me."
You hold onto the me,
you abide in the me and you go deeper, and deeper, and deeper within yourself, abiding in the I-consciousness.

As you keep doing this everyday,
every time a problem appears,
the day will finally come soon when you transcend your sense of I.
You totally transcend it.
The sense of I disappears and you will become pure consciousness.
That's it. :hug3:

Robert Adams

Tara5

15-08-2019, 01:56 PM

How do you react to life? When a person displeases you, what do you do? Curse him or her, become angry or violent? How do you handle it? How do you react? Be honest with yourself. It’s the only way. Start from where you are. No human being is perfect. We all make mistakes. Do not feel sorry for yourself, but start from where you are. Where are you? You are consciousness. This is your true nature. Learn to love everything. Learn to see only the good. Realise there’s a reason for everything. If a person displeases you, simply look the other way and forget it. Learn to stop your mind from thinking. You do this by immediately catching yourself when you react to a condition, and enquiring within yourself, ‘Who is becoming angry? Who feels out of sorts?’ ‘I do. “I”.’

Realise you’re dealing with the personal ‘I’, and that all the anger, all the frustration, all the karma, all the samskaras are all attached to that personal ‘I’. Consequently, when you get rid of the personal ‘I’, everything else will go with it. So, don’t try to solve your problems. Do not try to become a better person. Do not try to run away from your life. Simply see who it is who is running, who it is who needs to be a better person. Who has all these problems? ‘I’, ‘I’, always ‘I’. Hold onto that ‘I’ with all of your might, but do not concentrate on the ‘I’. You concentrate on the source of it, which is consciousness, God. :hug3:

Robert Adams

Phaelyn

15-08-2019, 06:14 PM

You can only know by finding out what it is not. Robert Adams

Tara5

16-08-2019, 03:58 AM

Tara5

16-08-2019, 04:03 AM

Removing the ‘I’

The time has to come in your life when you begin to understand that I has never existed and I will never exist. This is the reason we practice atma-vichara, self-inquiry. This is the only reason we practice this because the more you practice this the more you will not get caught up in the I.

Now you know that the only thing you have to do is to remove the I from your life and you will be totally liberated. Try tomorrow not saying “I” for the whole day. See if you can do this. Most of you will not be able to have a conversation. You will have absolutely nothing to say and that will be wonderful. It would be the best thing you've ever done. To shut up.

For you have been talking all of your life and where has it gotten you? Since you were born you've been talking, talking, talking, talking, talking and where has it gotten you? This is why you hear about some Sages who are totally silent and never say a word. For the voice has been given to the I. It is the I who talks. It is the I who has a chip on it's shoulder and always has something to say. The voice box is connected to the I. But if you practice not saying I, removing the I you'll have very little to say and everything will take care of itself.

This is why self-inquiry works so wonderfully and why we should all practice it. The best time to practice it is when the I overwhelms you. When you start to say all kinds of things to yourself like, "I feel rotten today. I feel bad. I feel this. I feel that." Catch your- self and inquire, "Who am I?" That is what you must do. What you are really asking is, "Where does this I come from? Who am I? Who am I?" Never answer that question. For it'll be your ego answering. The ego, the I, the mind are synonymous. They're all the same. If there is no I there will be no mind, no ego. So the practice is to remove the I, to eliminate the I. At the same time we're killing the ego and the mind.

So every time the I shows it's head you inquire, "Who am I? Where did you come from I? What gave you birth? From where did you originate?" You have to talk to yourself this way but not loud. Somebody hears you, you'll be sent to the funny farm. Keep this to yourself. But do it! "Who am I?" The mind will start thinking again. Thoughts will come, "What am I doing this for? I must be crazy?" You're back to I again.

If you can only catch yourself this will be a great start and it will take you further. Catch yourself when you say, "I." Keep catching yourself always. "Who am I? Who is this I?" That is all you have to do. Is search for the I, the source of the I. And you search for the source by inquiring, "Who am I?" That is how you search for the source of I. When the source reveals itself to you there will be total liberation. For the I will be gone.

And so to be liberated you simply have to get rid of the I. But the good news about this thing is as you practice this it has positive results in your life, in your personal life. As I mentioned earlier you will find that you're becoming more peaceful. The things that used to disturb you will stop disturbing you. You will develop power within yourself. You will feel happy and good. This is a side effect of practicing self-inquiry.

Robert Adams

Tara5

16-08-2019, 04:17 AM

My friends, your true nature is like the screen. You are not the image that appears to go through different trials and tribulations, or appears to be enjoying life to the utmost.
They're both impostors. You are like the screen. There never really was an image. The image appeared for a time. It appeared. It appeared due to the fact that if you try to grab the image on the screen, what would you grab? The screen.
That's why it is an appearance.

It is hard to believe that your life, what appears right now, is unreal, simply be-cause you have identified with it strongly. This is what is called maya, the grand illusion.
You have strongly identified with your appearance of life, and you are reacting accordingly. Every time you react you are accruing karma. Accruing karma simply means the image is continuing again and again, the ego becoming stronger and stronger. And even when you leave this body, it continues into another body. There's no end.

You go through many cycles, some good, some bad. You have all kinds of experi-ences. But until you realize that you are not the experiencer and there's no experience, you will go through the cycles of karma again, again, again, ad infinitum, no end. It is only when you get tired of playing the game called maya, playing a part called leela, that you decide to find the answer to your existence. You have to go through the game over and over again, and finally begin to search.

You become a seeker. You begin to read spiritual philosophy. You may find a
teacher and you're on the path. Depending on what you do, this determines where you go from there. When you come to a meeting like this, when you attend a satsang like this, you can rest assured that you have done spiritual work in a previous life. You deserve to be here to understand the reality, to understand how to transcend the mind, the ego, the personal self.

As you begin to practice self-inquiry, witnessing, the I am meditation, things begin to happen. You're searching for self-realization, whereas all this time, self-realization has been exactly where you are. You have always been that, yet you believe you've got to search, you've got to read books, deep philosophies, when all you had to do was to wake up. All you had to do was awaken, just as when you awaken in the morning from your dream, you awaken. It's the same thing now.
You simply have to awaken.
Yet what is keeping you from awakening? Your attitudes. You are attached to your emotions and you are seeing things in your life that either appear wrong or either appear right. As long as you have a concept of right or wrong, you can never transcend your body and become free.

Some people ask, "But things are right and wrong in this world. I have to take a stand." My question to those people are always the same. "To whom is there right and wrong? Who feels right and who feels wrong?" Only the ego. In reality there's no right and there's no wrong. There are just experiences of a dream unfolding. Yet the dream doesn't exist. It never did. The world, as it appears right now, does not exist. It never did. The way you believe you are, does not exist. It never did.

There is only one and you are that. There never were others. There's only the one.
Yet most of you cannot feel this. You're so identified with maya that the world of appearances cause you to feel emotional. You therefore have to work on yourself. You have to do something to yourself, to help you become free. If you leave yourself alone, and you do nothing, you'll go through life, after life, after life, on various planets. You'll have various bodies, female, male, maybe other bodies. It will never end for you.

Therefore you begin to question your existence. That is the first step. You question your existence. You question your existence by inquiring,
"Who am I?
Where did I come from?
What is my real nature?":hug3:

Robert Adams

Miss Hepburn

16-08-2019, 09:46 PM

“We have names for everything.
What if we forgot about those names?
And we stopped seeing things as something?

What if we just observed things, watched things, without giving them a name, without coming to a conclusion?
What do you think would happen?
You would transcend everything.”:hug3:
Robert AdamsThat is one of the first practices In the Workbook of 'A Course of Miracles'.
By the 28th day my mind had made a 'shift' to see things differently.

Unseeking Seeker

17-08-2019, 04:26 AM

***

“I am sitting here telling you that your life is like a dream and not to worry, not to fear. But to be still and know that I am God. To understand that you are consciousness. That you are pure awareness. That you are absolute reality, that you are parabrahman, that you are sat-chit-ananda, but you don't believe me. You think you're mortal. You identify with your body consciousness. You identify with events in this world.”

Robert Adams

***

Unseeking Seeker

17-08-2019, 04:32 AM

***

“Everything else about you is preordained. Everything else about you is prarabdhic karma. Even when I lift my hand like this, it's karmic. But what have I got to do with my hand? I am not my hand, I am not my body, I am not my mind, I-am that I-am. Absolute awareness, pure intelligence, absolute reality, parabrahman, nirvana. I am spaceless, I am birthless, I am deathless. Water cannot drown me and fire cannot burn me. That is my true nature. Find your true nature my friends and you'll always be happy. Om shanti.”

Robert Adams

***

Tara5

17-08-2019, 06:15 AM

https://i.postimg.cc/9FsJVHP0/ramana.jpg (https://postimg.cc/hfb9bw5R)

Tara5

17-08-2019, 06:19 AM

"This Universe, my friends,
is an optical illusion." :hug3:

Robert Adams

Unseeking Seeker

17-08-2019, 10:05 AM

***

“Do not accept your feelings. Do not accept your thoughts. Do not watch yourself feeling miserable, and you do nothing about it or you can become the witness to it. That will help too. But it's better to ask, "Why am I feeling miserable?" and realize that you said why am ‘I’ feeling miserable, ‘I.’ I'm identifying with my body as ‘I.’ Again a mistake. The ‘I’ in itself is pure harmony, joy, happiness. But when you identify the ‘I’ with your body-mind, it becomes the personal I which doesn't even exist. But you're making it exist. You're identifying with it. Why do you want to identify with your personal I? Your personal I never existed. Why have you befriended it? Why do you keep giving it power? Why do you make it grow?”

Robert Adams

***

Unseeking Seeker

17-08-2019, 01:31 PM

***

“What is the Self?

The Self is your real nature, that's what you are. The Self is consciousness.

What is consciousness?

Consciousness is the power that is conscious of itself. It is self-contained, it is omnipresent. When you speak of love, of peace, of God, of joy, of happiness, of bliss, you're speaking of consciousness. These words are just other words for consciousness. Consciousness is you. The Self, consciousness, they're all synonymous. They all pertain to you.

Leave the world alone, go within your Self and there you will find happiness, joy and peace.“

Robert Adams

***

Tara5

18-08-2019, 04:11 AM

Everything takes care of itself in due time. You have nothing to fear and you have nothing to fight. You have to learn to have faith in the powers that be. Those powers are within yourself. You are they. They are not external to you. As most of you know by now, the only thing that's external to you is your mind. Your mind has created your world, the world that you believe in. The things that you see in this world, the things that you feel, your frustrations, your happiness, your joys, your miseries, whatever you think is real for you, you have created yourself. Otherwise, where would it come from?:hug3:

Robert Adams

Tara5

18-08-2019, 04:13 AM

You do not train your mind, you untrain your mind.

You untrain your mind by just observing your own thoughts, by watching yourself think, by not reacting to your thoughts, not reacting to what happens in your world. As you do this you begin to dissolve. You find peace. You find peace. You become free. You become love. You no longer talk too much. You no longer try to evaluate the world or your position. You no longer find fault anywhere. You become your own experience. You have expanded. You used to be concerned with yourself as a body, with your health, concerned with your affairs. But now even though you are involved in the world, you are not of the world. The world has no pull on you. The world cannot show you anything. It cannot do anything to you. The world is the same as your body. You are not the body, you are not the world, you are not your mind. You are something completely different. That something different is ineffable.:hug3:

Robert Adams

Joe Mc

18-08-2019, 09:04 AM

I enjoyed reading your Thread Tara.

I noticed the rain was falling when i looked out the window. It has cleared now .. the day was more overcast than yesterday so I experienced it by accepting that it made my energy feel a little bit heavier or something like that. Thing was, for once I didn't want it to be sunny, I didn't need it to be sunny either, it's sunny now :) at the moment of writing this. I've experienced some of that in my life, fighting with things like the weather lol...not knowing why your fighting ... so was a nice insight to accept it as it is and as they say in other circles work with it just as it is...

I like that teachings from Robert Adams thanks for posting them.

Actually i have to end this brief observation on a Song, it came through my mind ...its a song by JJ Cale ..The song is called The Breeze

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DPnDRarsCKo

So in the song the lyrics say, " If there ain't no change in the Weather, there ain't no change in me " ..lol now there is what Daz might call Irony ?

Thanks Joe

Tara5

19-08-2019, 03:43 AM

I enjoyed reading your Thread Tara.
Thanks :hug3: I noticed the rain was falling when i looked out the window. It has cleared now .. the day was more overcast than yesterday so I experienced it by accepting that it made my energy feel a little bit heavier or something like that. Thing was, for once I didn't want it to be sunny, I didn't need it to be sunny either, it's sunny now :) at the moment of writing this. I've experienced some of that in my life, fighting with things like the weather lol...not knowing why your fighting ... so was a nice insight to accept it as it is and as they say in other circles work with it just as it is...
I like that teachings from Robert Adams thanks for posting them. All is well and everything is unfolding as it should...Actually i have to end this brief observation on a Song, it came through my mind ...its a song by JJ Cale ..The song is called The Breeze

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DPnDRarsCKo

So in the song the lyrics say, " If there ain't no change in the Weather, there ain't no change in me " .
Thanks Joe I ain't got me nobody
I ain't carrying me no load :smile:
Thanks, Joe

Tara5

19-08-2019, 03:48 AM

Even if you hate someone, if you hate someone or something with a passion, that's attachment. You will come back to this earth, or to another planet similar to this earth, again, and again, and again, and you will meet this person that you hate so much under different circumstances again, and again, and again. One time he may be your daughter, he may be your mother, he may be your husband, he may be your wife. But that person that you despise so much will meet you again, and again, and do things to you in order to upset you. And you will hate again, and again. You will never be free until you understand.

The understanding is to turn within, to forget about the person, but to see your own reality, to trace the I-thought to the source. After all it is the I-thought that hates and loves, that has attachment to person, place or thing. When the I-thought is transcended, only the Self remains. Then your karma is finished, your body is finished, your world is finished, your God is finished, and your home free. But as long as you allow a person, place or thing, and it may be your own body that you're attached to, your own mind, that's person, place or thing also, as long as you feel deeply those things, you will never become free until you let it go.

You have to reconcile yourself with the whole universe, the mineral kingdom, the vegetable kingdom, the animal kingdom, the human kingdom. When you have become friends with the entire universe, you will not have to do atma-vichara. You will not have to trace the I, or worry about the I. Just the reconciliation with the universe will free you. After all, when you love everything, unqualified, what else can you do? There's nothing else. The total love of the whole universe kills the ego. For it is the ego that plays the other games with you, that makes you love someone special or hate someone special, that makes you despise certain animals and eat them, that makes you think poison ivy is worse than a rose, that causes you to qualify life. A Sage sees everything as equal. No thing is worse or better than any other thing. And just by hearing this, allowing it to go into your heart, feeling it, will lead you to an awakening.:hug3:

Robert Adams

Unseeking Seeker

20-08-2019, 02:28 AM

***

“Where do these thoughts come from? They come from me. From my past, from previous lives. I think these thoughts. Everything is my fault. Everything comes out of me. So who is me? Where did me come from? How did it get born? Does it really exist?" And you go deeper and deeper, inquiring where the me came from. Who gave it birth?

As you follow the me, one day something will happen. There may seem to be an explosion of light and everything will be burnt out. All your karma. All the samskaras. Everything that has ever disturbed you will be gone and you will be free. And you will realize that all is well and everything is unfolding as it should. And there are no problems.”

Robert Adams

***

Unseeking Seeker

20-08-2019, 02:34 AM

***

“ ... then the word "self-realized," what does that mean? It simply means your natural state. It is not something you become. It is something you are. You wish to experience your natural state. What you want to do therefore is to awaken to your natural state, what you are now, but you've covered it up with the personal I. As long as you keep talking about, "I am this," and, "I am that," and, "I need to be self-realized," or, "I need to awaken," or, "I need to do anything," it will never happen.”

Robert Adams

***

Tara5

20-08-2019, 03:56 AM

Joe Mc

20-08-2019, 06:14 AM

Tara5

21-08-2019, 03:46 AM

Don't take anything personally. Nothing others do is because of you.
What others say and do is a projection of their own reality, their own dream.
When you are immune to the opinions and actions of others, you will not be
a victim of needless suffering.:hug3:

Robert Adams.

Tara5

21-08-2019, 03:47 AM

Your so-called enemy is really your best friend. The person you don't get along with
is doing you a favor, for he or she is teaching you not to react.
-Robert

(https://postimages.org/)

Tara5

21-08-2019, 04:09 AM

Maharshi’s ‘Arunachala’

It happened, Maharshi Raman was dying. On Thursday April 13th, a doctor brought Maharshi a palliative to relieve the congestion in the lungs, but he refused it. “It is not necessary, everything will come right within two days,” he said. And after two days he died.

At about sunset, Maharshi told the attendants to sit him up. They knew already that every movement, every touch, was painful, but he told them not to worry about that. He was suffering from cancer – he had a throat cancer, very painful. Even to drink water was impossible, to eat anything was impossible, to move his head was impossible. Even to say a few words was very difficult.

He sat with one of the attendants supporting his head. A doctor began to give him oxygen, but with a wave of his right hand, he motioned him away.

Unexpectedly, a group of devotees sitting on the verandah outside the hall began singing ‘Arunachala-Siva’ – a bhajan that Maharshi liked very much. He liked that spot, Arunachala, very much; the hill he used to live upon – that hill is called ‘Arunachala’. And the bhajan was a praise, a praise for the hill.

On hearing it, Maharshi’s eyes opened and shone. He gave a brief smile of indescribable tenderness. From the outer edges of his eyes tears of bliss rolled down.

Somebody asked him, “Maharshi, are you really leaving us?”

It was hard for him to say, but still he uttered these few words: “They say that I am dying – but I am not going away. Where could I go? I am always here.”

One more breath, and no more. There was no struggle, no spasm, no other sign of death: only that the next breath did not come.

What he says is of immense significance – “Where could I go? I am always here.'” There is nowhere to go. This is the only existence there is, this is the only dance there is – where can one go? Life comes and goes, death comes and goes – but where can ONE go? You were there before life. :hug3:

Unseeking Seeker

21-08-2019, 05:19 AM

***

“The last step before awakening is when you no longer react to life and you begin to feel harmony, everywhere, under all conditions, under all circumstances. And then you awaken. But if you are feeling distraught and angry and upset and you are practicing to awaken you will never awaken. As long as you have those feelings. Those feelings have to go first. You have to harmonize yourself with the universe. You have to reconcile yourself to the whole universe, starting with the mineral kingdom, the vegetable kingdom, the animal kingdom and the human kingdom. You have to develop a feelings of love and compassion towards everything.

In other words, devotion leads to Jnana. So the person who is not a devotee to life, a person who has no compassion and no love can never awaken, it’s impossible. It’s a prerequisite to awakening. And you have to develop these traits by yourself. Nobody can bring them to you.”

Robert Adams

***

Unseeking Seeker

21-08-2019, 05:33 AM

***

“I'm experiencing the void. I'm experiencing emptiness, so I must be self- realized?"

On the contrary, as long as there is somebody to experience the void they can never become self-realized. The experiencer has to go. Nobody is left to tell about it. You have to go beyond the void. And what happens when you get beyond the void? You become your Self. You become your Self just the way you are, your natural Self. Words cannot explain.”

Robert Adams

Hush! Silence please

***

Joe Mc

21-08-2019, 08:52 AM

I was trying to learn a little bit of Jazz theory this morning, trying being the word lol..anyways I was also glancing over some of Robert Adams teachings here and kinda had a synthetic moment if you will. As Robert says, if you are feeling angry and upset and non harmonising with the universe then its going to be impossible to awaken as such,( forgive my paraphrasing as i still dont know how to copy and paste lol) So i was figuring that he is speaking about holding on to these things and i had a woww moment that it's like that in jazz and all music, that there is dissonance and the dissonance,call it resistance or anger or whatever is there but there is always a way out ....
There is always a "Secret Chord" another phrase from the Master Leonard Cohen. There is always the possibility of surrender and resolution and acceptance of our so called enemies as I think Robert Adams is pointing out.

This is a really strong part of his teaching for me that ive picked up from this thread. Accept your enemies and the rancour of this world ..see it for what it is and resolve it if you will. Be with the dissonance and then move into that " Secret Chord." :)

Tara5

22-08-2019, 05:00 AM

https://i.postimg.cc/8CfFt5qT/rp.jpg (https://postimages.org/)

Tara5

23-08-2019, 03:58 AM

Just as a screen is intimately one with all images
and, at the same time, free of them,
so our true nature of luminous, empty Knowing is
one with all experiences
and yet, at the same time,
inherently free of them.:hug3:

Rupert Spira

Unseeking Seeker

23-08-2019, 05:33 AM

Tara5

24-08-2019, 03:53 AM

Thanks for the link.... Rupert is one of my favourite teachers in Advaita Vedanta :smile:

Tara5

24-08-2019, 03:54 AM

Remember that story about the fellow who wanted to become a Zen Buddhist monk. So he flew to Japan and he had an interview with the head Roshi. And the Roshi gave him instructions and accepted him and he said, "By the way, there is one thing I forgot to tell you. We have a vow of silence here. You can only speak three words every ten years." So he said, "Okay" and he went to his quarters.

Ten years passed. And he had an interview with the Roshi. And the Roshi said, "Do you have anything to say?" And he said, "The food sucks!" And he went back to his quarters.

Ten more years passed. He had an interview with the Roshi. The Roshi said, "Do you have anything to say?" And he said, "The bed's hard!" And he went back to his quarters.

Ten more years passed. He had an interview with the Roshi and the Roshi said, "Have you got anything to say?" He said, "Yes I quit!" And the Roshi said, "I can't blame you, you've been *****ing ever since you got here.":hug3:

Robert Adams

Tara5

27-08-2019, 04:20 AM

Ah, wow...screen, so much on it...yet free of it all.
This is quite the image and explanation!!!!

Btw, the youtube of Rupert's, I Am - a poem?
I found a transcript of it easily and copied it to a file so I can always see it.
Wow. And thank you!~!!~!

:hug3: :hug3: :hug3:

Tara5

27-08-2019, 04:24 AM

https://i.postimg.cc/ZRBPKWMF/lll.jpg (https://postimages.org/)

Tara5

28-08-2019, 05:50 AM

Joe Mc

29-08-2019, 06:34 AM

One birth is given by your parents, another birth you have to manage by yourself. The second birth is the birth which matters. The first birth is going to end in death. The second birth is the beginning of eternity: no death, no end, no beginning.:hug3:

Osho

Profound ! :) Also made me think about the first birth and how it can show us glimpses at least of the that second birth that Osho speaks about when we consider universal compassion and the turning towards the other and towards the 'enemy'. This morning listening to the Dalai Lama speak about mother's milk and how it is a great symbol of compassion, the bond between the child and the mother. :smile: :smile: :smile:

Unseeking Seeker

29-08-2019, 09:39 AM

***

“So you ask yourself the question, "What is this I? Where did it come from? Who am I?" If you are sincere you will follow the I to its source, which is the Self. The I, or the personality, will therefore dissolve into the Self. This is called awakening. People give names to this, it's called moksha, liberation, self-realization, reality. People attach all kinds of names to it. All you’ve really done is to become yourself, that's all. There is nothing mysterious about it. You do not have to repeat sacred mantras or go to certain schools of ancient philosophy. Everything you're looking for is within yourself.”

Robert Adams

***

Miss Hepburn

29-08-2019, 03:39 PM

Lemme say, I got the book 'Silence of the Heart' ...
I may be on Robert's 2nd or 3rd Sat sang...I am blown away...
just 'how' he says things. Thank you Tara, cuz I had never heard of him.
SO funny how these amazing people can be right here in America
with small groups and no big hoopla. Quiet and humble.
What a lucky guy to have spent so much time in India with these saints, yogis. Wow.
But his story at 14 yrs old..wow...just goes to show me that we carry over karmic blessings
from past lives of study, worship, meditation, sitting at the feet of Masters.
(Thank God!!!!) Cuz, I have so many blessings that far surpass the work I've done in THIS life, LOL!!!!:biggrin:

Last year, I just looked at a photo of Ramana and suddenly was sent into an altered state of a big realization....
even my German Shep acted differently around me for 2 hours (more respect, ha! :tongue:)...my aura had SO changed.
I was not the same me my doggy knew...hahaha...I was in what I call,
''the stunned stage''.

Unseeking Seeker

29-08-2019, 03:49 PM

[COLOR=Black]Last year, I just looked at a photo of Ramana and suddenly was sent into an altered state of a big realization....
even my German Shep acted differently around me for 2 hours (more respect, ha! :tongue:)...my aura had SO changed.
I was not the same me my doggy knew...hahaha...I was in what I call,
''the stunned stage''. Wow to that! :hug3:

Miss Hepburn

02-09-2019, 02:35 PM

Robert:
You are consciousness. You have always existed.
Identify with your existence

Unseeking Seeker

02-09-2019, 03:59 PM

Robert:
You are consciousness. You have always existed.
Identify with your existence If I may elaborate ...”identify with your existence from the fulcrum of consciousness ... as in the Absolute I AM awareness”

Unseeking Seeker

03-09-2019, 03:42 AM

***

“How do we get closer to this genuine spiritual self? By manifesting love and compassion. Why? Because love and compassion are far more than the abstractions many of us believe them to be. They are real. They are concrete. And they make up the very fabric of the spiritual realm.

In order to return to that realm, we must once again become like that realm, even while we are stuck in, and plodding through, this one.

One of the biggest mistakes people make when they think about God is to imagine God as impersonal. Yes, God is behind the numbers, the perfection of the universe that science measures and struggles to understand. But—again, paradoxically—Om is “human” as well—evenmore human than you and I are. Om understands and sympathizes with our human situation more profoundly and personally than we can even imagine because Om knows what we have forgotten, and understands the terrible burden it is to live with amnesia of the Divine for even a moment.”

Eben Alexander

(Just had a word with Robert ... he approves that this be posted!)

***

Unseeking Seeker

03-09-2019, 12:00 PM

“When I say that you merge into your consciousness I do not mean that there is consciousness and there is you. What I mean is you really awaken to your Self. You awaken to your true nature. There is not a consciousness hiding somewhere and you have to go and find it. Consciousness is you. Simply stop thinking. Quiet your mind and you will begin to shine. Do not plan for things. Forget about goals. Forget about desires. Simply work on quieting your mind. And as you unfold you will find that things are getting better for you. Life appears brighter, more harmonious, more loving. It happens by itself. You merely have to slow down your thoughts.”

Robert Adams

Unseeking Seeker

03-09-2019, 12:04 PM

***

“Remember when I say you I'm referring to consciousness which is omnipresence. Therefore you have become the Self of the universe. Everything that's transpiring is transpiring within yourself, and you watch, you observe, like you watch a movie. The movie has a beginning, a middle, and an end, then you go home. So you've expanded your awareness and you realize that the world has a beginning, a middle and an end, and it's gone. You are simultaneously the world and you are consciousness. You become free.”

Robert Adams

***

Miss Hepburn

04-09-2019, 11:50 PM

Eben Alexander
(Just had a word with Robert ... he approves that this be posted!)
***Funny to see his name. Last week I listened to his youtube, over an hour lecture on 'things'...nothing like his book.
Good stuff!!

Unseeking Seeker

05-09-2019, 01:20 PM

***

“The choice therefore is yours. Whom shall I follow this day, God or mammon. God of course is consciousness. Mammon is the world. That's the only freedom you've got, to make a choice whom you will follow. If you turn within yourself and realize your identity you'll be safe. If you weep with the world, you will continue to weep. It will never end.

So you begin in the morning, and you try to remember during the day, "I am not the body, I am not my experience, I am consciousness, expressing as pure awareness. I am bliss." And as soon as a situation befalls you that you don't like, you ask yourself, "To whom does this come? To me? Who's me? I am. Where did the I come from? What is the I? Who am I?" And you abide in the I, following it to its source. Its source of course is the statement that you just made to yourself, prior to that. "I am consciousness, expressing as pure awareness, resulting in bliss." That is the source. In that source there is no personal I. In that source there's nothing happening. In that source all is well and everything is unfolding as it should. That source is you, and you are the universe.”

Robert Adams

***

Unseeking Seeker

06-09-2019, 07:38 AM

***

“There are two ways to be fooled. One is to believe what isn’t true; the other is to refuse to believe what is true.”
—SØREN KIERKEGAARD

***

Miss Hepburn

06-09-2019, 10:05 PM

"When you are without thoughts, when you are without needs, wants,
without desires, then you are God. You are the Universe.
You are Divine Love. You are Beautiful."
Robert

davidsun

10-09-2019, 11:32 PM

Under stage hypnotism: people do funny things as the video shows.
But some people are serious, frantic, etc. while under hypnosis.
Some people claim we are ALL under one form of hypnosis or another.
A tantalizing question is "How can we tell if we are under hypnosis?" which can be
answered if we notice that we have some beliefs that do not make any sense.
Yah ... the operative clause being "if we notice" - first, however, the thought that one just might be 'under' hypnosis has to 'occur' - that is the thrust of my post. My question is, "Do you get it, no bigger than anyone else, BigJ dude?"

Unseeking Seeker

11-09-2019, 02:06 AM

***

“Truth, reality, rests within you. There's no problem on earth that enough truth cannot solve. By truth I mean understanding your reality. Understanding who you really are. It makes no difference what the situation may appear to be. It makes no difference what's going on in the world or in your life. If you would only turn within yourself, everything would be resolved, everything. It begins by first resolving yourself, and then the world follows suit.

This is the only way, for remember, the world is only an extension of yourself. What you see within yourself, what you feel within yourself, you see and feel in the world. This is why all the great Masters and Sages have told us to, "Seek ye first the kingdom of God and it's righteousness, and everything else will be added unto you."

In other words, find out the truth about yourself.”

Robert Adams

***

Unseeking Seeker

11-09-2019, 02:10 AM

***

“What is God? God is consciousness. What is consciousness? Something that is conscious of itself as pure awareness. And all of that is not someplace outside of yourself. It is you. You are that. The whole universe is yourself. The whole universe is happiness, joy, love, peace. But you will never see that in the world until you see it within yourself. You must consequently practice seeing yourself as a loving person, as a kind person, as a joyous person. And then you will drop the person, and you will see yourself as omnipresence, omniscience, omnipotence.

You are the power. There is no other power but you. Many of you, most of your lives, have been dwelling on occult powers, trying to find the golden fleece, so-to-speak, outside of yourself. It has never been outside of yourself.”

Robert Adams

***

Unseeking Seeker

11-09-2019, 02:15 AM

***

“The reason that I can say truly to you that the world is not real, it's like a bubble, like a dream, that disharmony is not real, that your body is not real, is because somehow I have been able to see the fourth state, and experienced the fourth state, beyond waking, dreaming and sleeping. And that fourth state is the reality, whereas everything else appears to be reality. Therefore the world appears real, your body appears real, but you are not that. You are beyond that. Yet if you have not experienced this state of consciousness, you can never really know that it exists.

I'm speaking to you of a state of perfect peace and harmony, a state of absolute goodness, of nirvana, of sat-chit-ananda. This is a true state.”

Robert Adams

***

Unseeking Seeker

11-09-2019, 02:45 AM

***

Exiting merely believing
Conjectural thoughts limiting
Begin becoming, blossoming

***

Miss Hepburn

11-09-2019, 02:51 PM

"Experience now. If you're really not thinking and you are experiencing now, you're in Bliss.
Now is Reality. Now is ultimate Oneness. Now is Liberation."

-Robert

Unseeking Seeker

14-09-2019, 06:57 AM

***

“Be true to yourself. Learn to love yourself, to be yourself. Always understand and know that you are not what you appear to be, that you are sat-chit-ananda. You are ultimate oneness. You are pure awareness. You are Parabrahman. That is your true nature. Attend to that nature. See it. Feel it. Worship it. Become it, and you will be free.”

Robert Adams

***

Miss Hepburn

14-09-2019, 03:00 PM

“Be true to yourself. Learn to love yourself, to be yourself.
Always understand and know that
-you are not what you appear to be, that
-you are sat-chit-ananda. are ultimate oneness.
-You are pure awareness.
-You are Parabrahman. That is your true nature.
Attend to that nature. See it. Feel it. Worship it.
Become it, and you will be free.”
Robert Adams
I was playing with colors...:smile:

Unseeking Seeker

15-09-2019, 03:24 AM

In the here & now, the first shift within is to use thought as a mere instrument by employing it as of need and then resting it. Mostly resting it. To get to what is beyond the playground of the mind we need to transcend it by cessation of thought by effortless disassociation.

Robert and scores of others who have actually seen in a pure awareness thought rested state are their direct insights, which they wish to share. Now, looking at these insights from the mind-body construct, we can either accept or reject it. Either way, we would not know it unless we experience the reality directly, since it lies in a beyond mind state ... let us call it intellect or pure awareness or any other symbol we wish to assign to it.

Insights offered are directional indicators offering inspiration to those so seeking to overcome fear, doubt, resistance & hesitation created by the ego i-dentity.

Almost all of us have had some level of inner awakening during meditation or lucid dreaming, kundalini rising or simply Divine grace descending upon us. What has brought about this shift? Certainly not narrow fragmented thought limited to experience and memory.

Now, if I were to affirm that yes, bliss in permanence is our true state of being, would you, without attempting to employ thought, consider it as a provisional hypothesis worthy of exploration? What then would be the method of the search if it is to be without using the instrument of thought?

As in a Bruce Lee movie ...’don’t think! Feel!’ And it may be apt to elaborate that the feel must be as in feeeeeeel. Within.

The reason why a person who insists on using thought alone gets into a kind of impasse with the listener who is centred at the heart is obvious. One is speculating and the other becoming. In silence.

In actual truth, it may be said that all inner realisations are an open secret, in that, even if expressed through words, cannot convey the fragrance, the taste, the elixir of magnetism as neither can we express Love in its beauteous hues of colourations encompassing our entire being in an unending renewal.

***

Miss Hepburn

15-09-2019, 02:38 PM

"How can you believe that you have to let go
of something that never existed?"
~Robert

:tongue: :happy6: :icon_joker:

Unseeking Seeker

15-09-2019, 03:03 PM

***

“Now somebody tells you, "Well in the Upanishads and the Vedas it says, I am Brahman." So they are saying that they are Brahman. No, they are not. Now get this and remember it all the time. They are saying, "I am is Brahman." They're not saying, "I the personal I is Brahman," or "consciousness." They are stating their true confession that I-am Is Brahman. I-am is consciousness not you. You don't exist. But I-am, Brahman, consciousness, pure awareness, bliss are all synonymous, they happen at the same time.”

Robert Adams

***

Unseeking Seeker

15-09-2019, 03:25 PM

***

“So the reason we come to satsang is to understand that there is no body, there is no mind, there is only the Self. The Self cannot be explained by words, can only be experienced as pure being. And that being is consciousness, that consciousness is pure awareness which is absolute reality and results in bliss.”

Robert Adams

***

Miss Hepburn

15-09-2019, 04:02 PM

*snip*...They are saying, "I am is Brahman." They're not saying, "I the personal I is Brahman," or "consciousness."
They are stating their true confession that I-am Is Brahman. I-am is consciousness not you.
You don't exist.
But I-am, Brahman, consciousness, pure awareness, bliss are all synonymous, they happen at the same time.”Robert Adams
Also, interesting...Christ could have said, meant and it was taken wrong or it was written incorrectly "I-AM is the Way."
Not, "I am the Way..." Ha!:biggrin:

Unseeking Seeker

15-09-2019, 04:35 PM

Also, interesting...Christ could have said, meant and it was taken wrong or it was written incorrectly "I-AM is the Way."
Not, "I am the Way..." Ha!:biggrin:

***

Yes, clearly ‘I’ refers to ‘I AM’ since the ‘i’ as in ego i-dentity is delusion. This is brought out several times by Baird Spalding in his series ‘Life & teachings of the masters of the far east’

***

guthrio

15-09-2019, 04:50 PM

I'm dedicating this thread to Robert Adams (neo-Advaita teacher).

Will share some of the core teachings of Sri Robert Adams here :hug3:

Change no one.
Change nothing.
React to no one, react to nothing.
Do not live in the past and do not worry about the future.
Stay in the eternal now, where all is well.

After all you are me and I am you.
There's no difference.
Do not react to the world.
Do not even react to your own body.
Do not even react to your own thoughts.
Learn to become the witness.
Learn to be quiet. :toothy4:

Robert Adams

Tara 5,

...a strange thought just occurred to me upon reading the quote provided above and throughout this thread dedicated to Robert Adams.

To whom would a neo-Advaita teacher be addressing these comments, except to him/herself....

Whose teachings would a neo-Advaita teacher be quoting, except from him/herself....

What name would a neo-Advaita teacher call him/herself....

To Whom, From Whom, or For Whom is the designation "Sri" even given to be utilized...

...if the I AM THAT IS cannot be so addressed or so quoted or so named or so designated in the Eternal Now that always is.

If "After all you are me and I am you" and "There's no difference", then....

WHO IS IT being told to do the things you've quoted above?

guthrio

15-09-2019, 06:36 PM

All I am pointing out is that in order to practice the teachings of others one would have to react to the thought of others .

In these instances it is not an automatic response to one's thoughts arising .

One is purposefully reacting to thoughts in a specific way .

When there are teachings to not react to your thoughts, the actual opposite is occurring isn't it when one complies with another's ways / teachings / practices / thoughts .

Do you see the irony and the contradiction in it all?

x daz x

God-like,

...so well said!

guthrio

15-09-2019, 11:27 PM

***

Yes, clearly ‘I’ refers to ‘I AM’ since the ‘i’ as in ego i-dentity is delusion. This is brought out several times by Baird Spalding in his series ‘Life & teachings of the masters of the far east’

***

Unseeking Seeker,

... Yes I agree. After my first encounter with Baird Spalding's books over 30 years ago, I have understood that this is the true meaning of Jesus's words as He intended.

I AM is the Way, the Truth, and the Life.

Reference: http://www.spiritualforums.com/vb/showpost.php?p=902772&postcount=8

Joe Mc

16-09-2019, 07:13 AM

Within You is the Light of a Thousand Suns. Within You is unimaginable Beauty.

Robert Adams

Miss Hepburn

16-09-2019, 11:59 AM

Within You is the Light of a Thousand Suns. Within You is unimaginable Beauty.

Robert AdamsYup, been there, seen It ! :smile:

Except I would say 'almost' unimaginable beauty.

Unseeking Seeker

16-09-2019, 02:16 PM

Yup, been there, seen It ! :smile:
Except I would say 'almost' unimaginable beauty. Ah! The penny drops! Thanks a billion for the inspiring reassurance :smile:

Miss Hepburn

16-09-2019, 06:03 PM

"Unbelievable and unimaginable" are no-nos in my vocabulary. :wink:

ajay00

17-09-2019, 05:27 AM

The self-aware or mindful can think at will and switch off at will if problems present themselves or if planning or creative thinking is required. Their minds being fresh and rested, can perform optimally and creatively when needed.

They are not however caught in incessant thinking and emoting out of habit, and consequently living in their own mental and psychological worlds divorced from the living reality around them.

People suffering from neuroses and psychosis are such people who are living in their own mental worlds at extreme levels to the point that they are out of sync with reality. I remember reading about a mass shooter who disliked being out in the sunlight and preferred to sleep during daytime so as to gamble at night. He seemed to be living unconsciously in his own psychological world divorced from the existential reality around him.

Nature can assist in healing, but even nature can be helpless if one in its midst is still involved in incessant thinking and emoting unconsciously, and thereby missing the tranquility and peace of nature around him.

Unseeking Seeker

17-09-2019, 05:14 PM

***

“what do you personally think you are? The first mistake you make is to believe that you are the personal I. Identification with the body. That's your first mistake. The second mistake is that your mind identifies with the world. And the third mistake is that your mind and body reacts to your environment.”

Robert Adams

***

Unseeking Seeker

17-09-2019, 05:17 PM

***

“You've appeared different so you cannot be the body that seems to appear one way at one time and different ways at different times. Am I my mind, how can I be my mind. My mind is only a conglomeration of thoughts, thoughts of the past and thoughts of the future. So I cannot be my mind. Therefore what am I?

If you ask sincerely something will tell you within yourself that if you get to the source of the I, all your problems will be over. So you start thinking about the source. As you think about the source you think of nothing because the source of the I is no thing. And you begin to see that the I that has been confronting you all of these years has to have a source and the source is no thing. If the source is no thing how can there be an I?

Now you begin to wake up and you laugh at yourself. You finally realize, "I don't exist, I never have existed, I don't exist as consciousness, I don't exist as pure awareness, I just don't exist. But the source is omnipresence, is ultimate oneness."

Then you can say, "I am the source." Because at that time you will realize when you say, "I am," you are not referring to your body any more you are not referring to your mind. You are referring to God, to pure awareness, to consciousness, to absolute reality. At that state you don't even think of those words. For as I mentioned before those words only exist in time and in space. And in your realization you understand that there is no time and no space. So there are no words, there is only the source and you become free and liberated.”

Robert Adams

***

Unseeking Seeker

18-09-2019, 02:59 AM

***

The way in known but for some of us there is hesitation
Fearful trepidation
But it’s alright! No one is judging
Divine Love understands, being all embracing

Living in delusion and for eons before our ego we did fawn
Now asked that all thought be stopped and ferality sawn
The dread of shedding identity
Good to talk about socially but to walk the steps in reality?

No!? Perhaps dear friends in that case it is not yet our time
Let us indulge in illusion awhile longer until we hear the chime

Within

***

davidsun

18-09-2019, 01:51 PM

No!? Perhaps dear friends in that case it is not yet our time
Let us indulge in illusion awhile longer until we hear the chime

Within

***
There's an old 'army' joke about a fella who, while in marching formation during boot camp, would always 'break ranks' and run over to where he saw a piece of paper and pick it up, look closely at it, and volubly declare, "That's not it!"

He kept on doing this even though the drill sergeant tried to break him of his isolence by assigning him to hours of KP (peeling potatoes, washing dishes, etc.) and latrine cleaning duty every time.

Finally, the powers that be gave up, brought him up for Court Martial, told him he was crazy, and gave dishonorably discharged him.

As he was handed his discharge papers, he looked them over closely, and loudly declared "That's IT!"

---

Here's to 'hearing' that 'chime'! :biggrin:

What one does with one's consequent 'freedom' is one's soul's next 'calling' (to 'listen' for and 'hear') methinks? :smile:

Unseeking Seeker

18-09-2019, 02:09 PM

@ davidsun ... hahaha :smile:
Have a good day!

Miss Hepburn

18-09-2019, 03:29 PM

You have to have an attitude, "I know nothing. You are everything."
This kind of an attitude will set you free.

-Robert

Unseeking Seeker

18-09-2019, 05:04 PM

***

“Why go after the fleeting things that change and disappear. Forget about trying to win the lottery. Forget about who's hurt you. Forget about your sins of omission and commission. Let go of everything. Be yourself. Do not react to the world. Do not even react to your own body. Do not even react to your own thoughts. Learn to become the witness. Learn to be quiet.”

Robert Adams

***

Unseeking Seeker

18-09-2019, 05:09 PM

***

“Keep your mind on your heart center. Practice self-inquiry. Become the witness to all of your movements and to all situations. Do not react to anything. Watch. Behold how the world keeps changing day after day after day. Realize that you are not the world. You are watching the world, but you have really nothing to do with the world. You are consciousness, you are the Self, this is your true nature. Identify always with the pure Self.”

Robert Adams

***

Miss Hepburn

19-09-2019, 11:14 AM

Always spend time by yourself, sitting alone in Silence, being quiet.
Be still and know that I am God.
~ Robert

Unseeking Seeker

19-09-2019, 01:52 PM

***

“There's only one I actually, and that I is consciousness. When you follow the personal I to the source, it turns into the universal I, which is consciousness. Begin to catch yourself. Begin to realize your divine nature. And you do this by keeping quiet. The fastest way to realization is to keep silent. Yet you have to know why you are keeping silent. This is why you can't tell this to the average person. If a person has no inkling of Advaita Vedanta, you cannot say keep silent. For to them it means just to be quiet. They don't realize it means to go deep, deep, deep, deep within, to that place where absolute reality lives, and that's the silence.

Actually the human body cannot keep silent. There's something else that enters the silence. It has nothing to do with your humanity. It's only after years perhaps of meditation in previous lives, that you can be mature enough to really know what this path is all about.”

Robert Adams

***

Unseeking Seeker

19-09-2019, 02:01 PM

***

“... you finally realize it's this personal I that's been giving the trouble. That's an advanced state, but that's also a lie, due to the fact the personal I never existed. But you don't know that. Because you think the personal I exists, you have to use self-inquiry to lead you to the place where you realize the personal I does not exist. It never has, and it never will.“

Robert Adams

***

Miss Hepburn

19-09-2019, 04:47 PM

Feel the Presence yourself, feel the happiness and joy that you really are.
Feel the Presence, the Presence of Consciousness, the Presence of Pure Awareness.
When you begin to think about it-you spoil it.
~Robert

( I swear I opened the book and this is what came up first..hahaha):biggrin:
I also took my coins into the bank...I said lemme guess first ...I said $152...
It was $152.37. Bazinga.

Unseeking Seeker

19-09-2019, 05:18 PM

Unseeking Seeker

19-09-2019, 05:24 PM

***

“... what I'm talking about you're really space. You are not the body because the space between the atoms is larger, more than the atoms themselves. And the space becomes expanded taking up all of space. What is behind space? What causes space? What is the substratum of the space? You are, your real nature, absolute reality. So you see you are not what you appear to be. By trying to improve something that does not exist brings upon itself suffering. For you are identifying with the appearance rather than with the reality. As long as you identify with the appearance you go through all sorts of living conditions, all sorts of experiences. And you try to improve your living condition, as it were.”

Robert Adams

***

Unseeking Seeker

19-09-2019, 05:27 PM

***

“The whole universe is superimposed on consciousness. When you change identities and identify with consciousness everything disappears. Yet you continue experiencing not as an ego but as the Self. And what do you experience? Pure awareness. You are aware of the truth, the reality. Your body will continue its sojourn through the world doing what- ever it came here for, but you will not be your body.

Again this is paradoxical for you appear to be your body but you are not your body. You become a living embodiment of pure happiness, total joy and bliss. The world can no longer fool you or disturb you. You have a feeling of deep immortality. You know without words that nobody dies because nobody was born. You understand and realize without words that there is no causation for the universe. Nothing ever brought it into life. It has no cause.”

Robert Adams

***

Unseeking Seeker

19-09-2019, 05:32 PM

***

“... it begins as soon as you wake up in the morning. Try your best to see the fourth state of consciousness beyond waking, sleeping and dreaming. The fourth state is between sleeping and awakening. Try to catch yourself there.

People tell me they try and just can't. If you keep trying you will. That place where there is no thoughts. A place where there is no thinking of any kind. That still place, that is bliss consciousness. Before the I comes out and starts to do it's dirty work. Just before the I wakes up ask yourself, "Where did the I come from? What was its source? Who am I?" And the last thing before you fall asleep, same situation. When all thoughts stop and you are about to sleep, catch yourself in that state and ask, "Where did the I go? The I seems to be disappearing as I fall asleep. Where is it gone? What is its source?" And yet as you sleep as you dream as you awake there appears to be another I that is the observer of you sleep- ing, awake and dreaming. That is the real I, that is consciousness.

Actually there is only one I but as long as you identify with the body it appears to be a personal I. As you begin to become aware of the higher I the personal I simply disappears, for it never really existed. And the large I comes into play, which is pure awareness.”

Robert Adams

***