Believing, Seeking & Faith

[Uday_Advaita]

Believing, Seeking & Faith

Ripley’s Believe it or Not – was a regular feature appearing in the 60’s in some magazines telling some incredulous stories and unexplained phenomenon. I used to be fascinated to read and ask - Could it be True?

In our day to day interactions, quite often we say – I believe, .. I believe,…. which generally means - I think I know…. or I almost know, but not very sure …..

How does the process of believing happens?

Most people tend to believe hearsay reports, rumors, sensational news items etc. The process of accepting something as true is based on preconceived notions, or the authenticity of the source of information or something they really want to believe.

From spiritual point of view beliefs are a very sacred part of individual persona. These are formed, entirely based on one’s life experiences and the demographics.

Whenever you say – “I believe….”
You are effectively saying that “I do not know…. but I presume, that something to be true……”
Admitting something that you do not know is a great possibility for knowing….
However, the appended presumption immediately reduces the potential of knowing the truth about - that something - dramatically.

The questions that come to my mind are

Are “Believing” and “Seeking” mutually exclusive??

Does believing in something precludes discovering the truth?

Could a Believer simultaneously be a Seeker?

Wouldn’t be conflict among diverse streams of beliefs inevitable?

What is Faith? Is it synonymous with Belief?

When I contemplate on the above, my understanding is: There ought be large number of believers than seekers in this world for the simple reason that in day to day life, believing happens more frequently than seeking. When true seeking happens, the beliefs hitherto held, get abandoned at a place where the seeker is unlikely to revisit ever.

Whereas True Faith is Surrender – It just cannot be equated with Belief

No one can choose the path, a seeker is likely to take. If the seeker emerges on the path of selfless action (Nishkam Karmayog), all his/her actions will gradually tend to happen without the slightest expectation of anything in return.

If the seeker emerges on the path of Devotion / Faith (Bhaktiyog), he/she will have left all the beliefs behind and true Faith will lead to complete Acceptance where the self-seeking Ego will gradually diminish enabling the seeker to unite with…. Him.

If the seeker emerges on the path of Knowledge (Gyanyog), he/she will be guided by a deep thirst for the quest of “Who I am”, looking deeply inward into his heart for the answers - the Final Truth - “Thou art That”

All paths finally have to converge to the ultimate understanding…..
“Tat Tvam Asi”

Namaskar

[Unseeking Seeker]

***

The burning yearning
For the connecting
Preceded by at least a glimpse
Or clarity from voice of conscience
... so the seeking being desire for connecting
To the source Divine Love outpouring

Then necessarily the seeking
Should be without anticipating
Since anticipating
Or visualising or blindly believing
Is limiting
No anticipating, no clinging, no stagnating

We then be free flowing
Just being

***

[iamthat]

Interesting questions.

Presumably the seeker is simultaneously a believer because the seeker believes that there is something to be sought.

Where people have different streams of belief then conflict can arise - just look at the varying opinions on this forum. Many people are very attached to their beliefs, and they confuse what they believe with what they actually know. The spiritual journey is often a process of unlearning our beliefs and realising how little we know.

Does believing in something preclude discovering the truth? There are those who insist that seeking gets in the way of finding. Their argument is that the seeker has some future goal of attainment, and so they miss the present moment which is when finding happens. Or they say that the seeker gets fixated on particular practices which they do in order to attain something, whereas they should let go of all practices and simply be present with what is.

I think that all finders go through the stages of believing and seeking to reach the point where they let go of believing and seeking and they then surrender to the present moment. But believing and seeking are necessary steps on the way.

Peace.

[janielee]

It's said: "Seek and ye shall find"

Nothing about imagine you've found it so sit on your butt and do nothing.

JL

[Uday_Advaita]

Interesting questions.

Presumably the seeker is simultaneously a believer because the seeker believes that there is something to be sought.

Where people have different streams of belief then conflict can arise - just look at the varying opinions on this forum. Many people are very attached to their beliefs, and they confuse what they believe with what they actually know. The spiritual journey is often a process of unlearning our beliefs and realising how little we know.

Does believing in something preclude discovering the truth? There are those who insist that seeking gets in the way of finding. Their argument is that the seeker has some future goal of attainment, and so they miss the present moment which is when finding happens. Or they say that the seeker gets fixated on particular practices which they do in order to attain something, whereas they should let go of all practices and simply be present with what is.

I think that all finders go through the stages of believing and seeking to reach the point where they let go of believing and seeking and they then surrender to the present moment. But believing and seeking are necessary steps on the way.

Peace.

Beautifully put. Thanks for your excellent contribution.
Namaskar

[Shivani Devi]

Belief has everything to do with accepting one's own conditioning and indoctrination unquestioningly.

Every day I am given insights into how the world we think we know and live in is totally illusory...it is all Maya.

Today, I was out at the mall, buying medicine for my dyspepsia.

As I walked in, I noticed a temporary stall set up by a charitable organisation, selling painted rocks to raise money for the awareness for ovarian cancer.

I walked in further and noticed another stall...A similar stall selling pink ribbons and pink cut out dolls to raise money for the awareness for breast cancer.

My immediate thought (as a woman)? What about the MEN?

Men also get breast cancer and although it is rare, if I was a man with breast cancer, I would ask for a blue ribbon or a blue doll..it is only right!

What about all the cancers men get? Why are there no stalls raising awareness for prostate cancer? testicular cancer? Why the hell are "women's issues" and "women's health" more important in a society where everybody is supposed to be equal? I just cannot understand this.

Then, I became aware that all of this is an example of "reverse sexism" which has been terribly overdone and sold to a brainwashed society who is totally incapable of having the same thoughts about all of this as I do.

Then I realise that all this is giving me yet another example as to how everything in the world is Maya (illusion) anyway...so I should just let all these thoughts go and not worry about it because I can see the truth and others just cannot.

[Miss Hepburn]

There is a lot of action in what appears as sitting on your butt doing nothing.
:smile:

[Shivani Devi]

What I think is that "belief" is a word used by OTHERS in regards to what it is that you know.

[utopiandreamchild]

Believing, Seeking & Faith

Ripley’s Believe it or Not – was a regular feature appearing in the 60’s in some magazines telling some incredulous stories and unexplained phenomenon. I used to be fascinated to read and ask - Could it be True?

In our day to day interactions, quite often we say – I believe, .. I believe,…. which generally means - I think I know…. or I almost know, but not very sure …..

How does the process of believing happens?

Most people tend to believe hearsay reports, rumors, sensational news items etc. The process of accepting something as true is based on preconceived notions, or the authenticity of the source of information or something they really want to believe.

From spiritual point of view beliefs are a very sacred part of individual persona. These are formed, entirely based on one’s life experiences and the demographics.

Whenever you say – “I believe….”
You are effectively saying that “I do not know…. but I presume, that something to be true……”
Admitting something that you do not know is a great possibility for knowing….
However, the appended presumption immediately reduces the potential of knowing the truth about - that something - dramatically.

The questions that come to my mind are

Are “Believing” and “Seeking” mutually exclusive??

Does believing in something precludes discovering the truth?

Could a Believer simultaneously be a Seeker?

Wouldn’t be conflict among diverse streams of beliefs inevitable?

What is Faith? Is it synonymous with Belief?

When I contemplate on the above, my understanding is: There ought be large number of believers than seekers in this world for the simple reason that in day to day life, believing happens more frequently than seeking. When true seeking happens, the beliefs hitherto held, get abandoned at a place where the seeker is unlikely to revisit ever.

Whereas True Faith is Surrender – It just cannot be equated with Belief

No one can choose the path, a seeker is likely to take. If the seeker emerges on the path of selfless action (Nishkam Karmayog), all his/her actions will gradually tend to happen without the slightest expectation of anything in return.

If the seeker emerges on the path of Devotion / Faith (Bhaktiyog), he/she will have left all the beliefs behind and true Faith will lead to complete Acceptance where the self-seeking Ego will gradually diminish enabling the seeker to unite with…. Him.

If the seeker emerges on the path of Knowledge (Gyanyog), he/she will be guided by a deep thirst for the quest of “Who I am”, looking deeply inward into his heart for the answers - the Final Truth - “Thou art That”

All paths finally have to converge to the ultimate understanding…..
“Tat Tvam Asi”

Namaskar

I think one thing that Is more important than faith of belief is love. You have to love with all your heart the things you believe or have faith in. Therefore love is the prime motive for you to act out in faith or belief. I think it's easier just to love what interests you the rest just seem to fall into place. Amen

[Uday_Advaita]

I think one thing that Is more important than faith of belief is love. You have to love with all your heart the things you believe or have faith in. Therefore love is the prime motive for you to act out in faith or belief. I think it's easier just to love what interests you the rest just seem to fall into place. Amen

My teacher defined LOVE as - Doing something for the "Other" without having the slightest expectation of anything in return.
He always stressed on personal non-doership
This kind of love can happen only when the separation between a me and the other disappears.
My understanding is that: For a seeker- Love, Compassion and Humility happens when the self dissolves, It cannot be brought about,
Namaskar

[janielee]

Love is, if I had to guess, genuinely knowing that there is no “other”

[weareunity]

Hi janielee

If your guess comes close--as I also believe--, then love may be imagined as some characteristic of oneness, like oneness in action, the language of oneness, the communication of oneness---words fail me. The being ness of oneness. Make
any sense to you or anyone else?
petex

[utopiandreamchild]

My teacher defined LOVE as - Doing something for the "Other" without having the slightest expectation of anything in return.
He always stressed on personal non-doership
This kind of love can happen only when the separation between a me and the other disappears.
My understanding is that: For a seeker- Love, Compassion and Humility happens when the self dissolves, It cannot be brought about,
Namaskar

That's a love for being a servant of/to others. Thats the kind of love that is, which your teacher forgot to inform you of. Love for self is all important you must love yourself just as much as you love others. Equality is also all important. Love and equality = enlightenment. You should only get involved with things that you love with all your heart. The rest is meaningless. Only love has meaning. Amen

[Moondance]

Believing, Seeking & Faith
Ripley’s Believe it or Not – was a regular feature appearing in the 60’s in some magazines telling some incredulous stories and unexplained phenomenon. I used to be fascinated to read and ask - Could it be True?

In our day to day interactions, quite often we say – I believe, .. I believe,…. which generally means - I think I know…. or I almost know, but not very sure …..

How does the process of believing happens?

Most people tend to believe hearsay reports, rumors, sensational news items etc. The process of accepting something as true is based on preconceived notions, or the authenticity of the source of information or something they really want to believe.

From spiritual point of view beliefs are a very sacred part of individual persona. These are formed, entirely based on one’s life experiences and the demographics.

Whenever you say – “I believe….”
You are effectively saying that “I do not know…. but I presume, that something to be true……”
Admitting something that you do not know is a great possibility for knowing….
However, the appended presumption immediately reduces the potential of knowing the truth about - that something - dramatically.

The questions that come to my mind are

Are “Believing” and “Seeking” mutually exclusive??

Does believing in something precludes discovering the truth?

Could a Believer simultaneously be a Seeker?

Wouldn’t be conflict among diverse streams of beliefs inevitable?

What is Faith? Is it synonymous with Belief?

When I contemplate on the above, my understanding is: There ought be large number of believers than seekers in this world for the simple reason that in day to day life, believing happens more frequently than seeking. When true seeking happens, the beliefs hitherto held, get abandoned at a place where the seeker is unlikely to revisit ever.

Whereas True Faith is Surrender – It just cannot be equated with Belief

No one can choose the path, a seeker is likely to take. If the seeker emerges on the path of selfless action (Nishkam Karmayog), all his/her actions will gradually tend to happen without the slightest expectation of anything in return.

If the seeker emerges on the path of Devotion / Faith (Bhaktiyog), he/she will have left all the beliefs behind and true Faith will lead to complete Acceptance where the self-seeking Ego will gradually diminish enabling the seeker to unite with…. Him.

If the seeker emerges on the path of Knowledge (Gyanyog), he/she will be guided by a deep thirst for the quest of “Who I am”, looking deeply inward into his heart for the answers - the Final Truth - “Thou art That”

All paths finally have to converge to the ultimate understanding…..
“Tat Tvam Asi”

Namaskar

Good questions, Uday.

Nonduality (small ’n’) in the purest sense of the term refers to the felt-sense gnosis of not-two. The sense that Reality is of ‘one taste’ - all manifestation and phenomena are the expression/movement/modulation of a singular principle. It’s a felt-sense of present immediacy (THIS) where the past and future (and the distortions in perception that they give rise to) are seen to be unreal. This ‘clear seeing’ could be said to be antithetical to the fog of belief and ideology (and other ‘religious’ overlays.)

At the very start of the journey perhaps a certain amount of faith and belief necessary in order to be motivated along the path. But it’s my understanding that real motivation comes from a deep sense of lack, confusion and existential dissatisfaction. In fact it’s the very inability/unwillingness to settle - including settling for second hand beliefs - that makes one a truth seeker in the first place.

[Uday_Advaita]

Good questions, Uday.

Nonduality (small ’n’) in the purest sense of the term refers to the felt-sense gnosis of not-two. The sense that Reality is of ‘one taste’ - all manifestation and phenomena are the expression/movement/modulation of a singular principle. It’s a felt-sense of present immediacy (THIS) where the past and future (and the distortions in perception that they give rise to) are seen to be unreal. This ‘clear seeing’ could be said to be antithetical to the fog of belief and ideology (and other ‘religious’ overlays.)

At the very start of the journey perhaps a certain amount of faith and belief necessary in order to be motivated along the path. But it’s my understanding that real motivation comes from a deep sense of lack, confusion and existential dissatisfaction. In fact it’s the very inability/unwillingness to settle - including settling for second hand beliefs - that makes one a truth seeker in the first place.

Very well said Moondance. Thanks for your insightful inputs.
My motivation came from my first love “Physics”. When I started seeking answers from the scientific thought, I became restless and kept researching on the latest advances in particle physics, cosmology, quantum electrodynamics and even genetics. To my utter dismay I found that the cutting edge theories proposed were well disguised speculations to somehow find a fit with the observed phenomenon.

I also found that the topnotch scientists too made references to ancient wisdom and sought parallels to the concept of non-duality (More particularly Advaita) and hinted that the ultimate truth is reachable through internal (as the sages did) rather than external enquiries (the hallmark of science),

This led me to look inward. That is how seeking happened. Life as it happens is without any purpose and beyond any personal doership of a me or the other.
Namaskar

[janielee]

Hi janielee

If your guess comes close--as I also believe--, then love may be imagined as some characteristic of oneness, like oneness in action, the language of oneness, the communication of oneness---words fail me. The being ness of oneness. Make
any sense to you or anyone else?
petex

Hi petex

Sorry I missed your post earlier.

Oneness is peace and it is in that peace that the oneness is evident. Practices such as yoga, meditation and prayer all help us manifest oneness. And yes I believe the ultimate expression is love but not the love that is romanticised or considered love by society. It is almost unspeakable, cannot be described really.

In silence it arises in talk, it expresses for he or she that is true.

Namaste,

J