How do we know that NDE are real and not brain fighting for survival (DMT) ?

[EdmundJohnstone]

Hey,

While I was surfing the web I encountered an article stating that "A DMT trip 'feels like dying' - and scientists now agree" (see BBC for source) . Stating that basically NDEs are brain hallucinations as it is trying to survive and is lacking oxygen. People who experienced DMT claimed similar feelings to NDEs such as "My body just didn't seem relevant any more" or that a Christian might see Jesus that says it is not their time, based on the subconscious, an atheist might not experience anything, and a person who misses his or her family might see some of them also based on the subconscious as it was induced. Seems that scientists are now skeptic about NDEs and Raymond Moody's work since they found this DMT effect.

This made me wonder, are NDEs really a byproduct of DMT ( N,N-Dimethyltryptamine, chemical in brain) kicking in as the brain is desperate for survival? What do you think? Are DMT and NDE related? How can we know that NDEs are real and not hallucinations of the brain, in the sense that they can prove an afterlife, another dimension, and not just a byproduct of DMT?

[Native spirit]

Well I know that was is being said is a load of rubbish. I have had three NDE and each time I was met by someone twice by my guide once by my grandmother.and was told it was not my time and that I had to go back,
plus I am a medium and I speak to spirit and have validated to others what their loved ones have said including having NDE.
that is my opinion.


Namaste

[NoOne]

Dmt is called the spirit molecule for a reason, because that is exactly what it is. It is what enables us to connect to higher realities and have experiences like Clairvoyance, Telepathy, Remote Viewing and communication with higher-dimensional beings. Like I said before, there is connecting tissue between NDEs, OBEs and Lucid Dreams. It is DMT.

This mysterious molecule has a physical aspect to it, but its spiritual aspect is more mysterious still. It is what pours into the brain as liquid light when one experiences a Kundalini Awakening for instance. Ancient Indians called it Soma or Amrita. The Ancient Greeks knew it as Nectar or Ambrosia. It is the food of the gods, which sustains their shining light-bodies. There are many stories in ancient myth about the gods trying to obtain this mysterious substance, such as the Churning of the Milk Ocean.

I don’t want to go too deep into the physics of Soma, suffice to say, it does not fall into the spectrum of the universe visible to us, or any of the four states of matter currently known to science. It constitutes a fifth state of matter, similar to plasma (it is hot, liquid and coherent light), which is higher-dimensional and falls into the spectrum of Dark Matter/Energy, or in other words the 95 percent of the universe that remains completely invisible to us. Dark is a misnomer, because it is actually incredibly bright and luminous.

I would say that this actually proves that Soma/DMT is much more than a physical molecule, it is what connects us to the beyond, therefore its presence in NDE-s is not only what you would expect to happen, it actually confirms its interdimensional nature. Materialist scientists are completely stumped when they stumble upon higher-dimensional phenomena, because they don’t yet have the tools to observe, let alone understand these higher realms. I personally like to stick to my own observations, we all have the senses to perceive higher dimensions, therefore we should use them and leave scientists stuck in 3-D gross matter behind. We can do so much better than them, because we don’t shut ourselves off from perceiving higher dimensions.

[iamthat]

Seems that scientists are now skeptic about NDEs and Raymond Moody's work since they found this DMT effect.

The scientific approach tends to consider the universe and the human body as physical phenomena, and they do not accept the idea of subtle bodies or other dimensions. By this model, consciousness, personality, the mind and thinking are all somehow produced by the brain. When the brain stops working then consciousness, personality, etc also cease. Therefore the only explanation they can offer for OBEs and NDEs is that these experiences are all produced within the brain. Hence the idea that NDEs are brain hallucinations as it fights to survive.

Susan Blackmore is typical of this approach, as she tries to explain consciousness and all out of body experiences in terms of brain activity. She may be highly praised by some, but her ideas are very limited.

Dr Eben Alexander is a brain surgeon who used to dismiss accounts of NDEs by his patients, thinking that although they might feel real, such experiences were last-ditch fantasies produced by the dying brain. Then he had a brain illness which meant that he was in a coma in intensive care and his brain stopped functioning for seven days. During this time he had all sorts of out-of-body experiences, meeting a guide and visiting other dimensions. When he suddenly recovered he tried to tell his colleagues about his experiences, only to be dismissed just as he had previously dismissed his own patients' accounts.

So I pay little attention to the beliefs of science. Their theories are just beliefs, and scientists tend to interpret the facts to fit their theories. Until eventually some fact turns up which cannot be explained, and then they have three options:

they may dismiss these new facts as being impossible,
or they may come up with a ludicrous explanation which allows them to keep their theories unchanged,
or they may finally adjust their theories to accommodate such new information.


Peace.

[Lynn]

Hello

I have a much different NDE experience and I have met others that have had similar to mine. Where its not a life and death fight, its not a case where your on the operating table fighting for life or sick and fighting for life. You do not know that there is a struggle at all.

I was 21 years old and I was doing something dark and was given a lesson. I fell face first down 18 stairs landing on the cement slab on the shattering all my teeth. I remember screaming out to call an ambulance (this was at my best friends house they drove me to the hospital and left me at the door). What I yelled out I later learned was "I will not die".

I was given a choice in that experience to change the path that I was on, to stop in the darkness I was playing in to be given a firm choice in coming back to life. I had to change the path, to use whom and what I was to help others. It was clear if I did not change my path, the next time I would die.

It was over a year in recovery so I did change my ways. I have often looked back on that day, and I truly feel it was a lesson event. Not one where you see the Light and Tunnel and talk with God. More this was a true lesson, where I had a choice to make, I remember the conversation with someone but not sure their role.

I know for sure that it was not imagination as I am well aware of my abilities in the Paranormal Realms and Astral Worlds.

Lynn

Lynn

[Saved65]

My brain was not starved for oxygen since I had a fully functional cardio respiratory system. My NDE/STE I suspect happened prior to me regaining full consciousness and manifested soon thereafter.

[desert rat]

I dont think you can be 100 % on any thing . A number of people think we are just code on a computer , a v.r. universe , Tom Campbell for one( my big T.O.E.) . Both Moody and Sam Parnia did N.D.E. studies . Our discussion of Parnia on astral pulse .
http://www.astralpulse.com/forums/welcome_to_out_of_body_experiences/sam_parnia_on_the_aware_study-t43307.0.html

[EdmundJohnstone]

I dont think you can be 100 % on any thing . A number of people think we are just code on a computer , a v.r. universe , Tom Campbell for one( my big T.O.E.) . Both Moody and Sam Parnia did N.D.E. studies . Our discussion of Parnia on astral pulse .



So if we just code on a computer, what happens with us after we die?

[Saved65]

I read Dr Alexander's book after my NDE/STE to try and determine what happened to me. We had much in common with regards to feelings, needs and desires after our experiences. Then I read Dr. Santori's book on The Transformative Power of Near Death Experiences. It reinforced those same feelings.

[Still_Waters]

During my NDE during which I emerged symptom-free from a 3-day "irreversible coma", I experienced some of the admittedly subjective stuff that has been alluded to in prior posts.

However, during my NDE, I was able to see my brother and sister down the hallway and could accurately describe what they were wearing despite the fact that they never entered the room where I lay "dying".

How is that "remote viewing" verifiable objective experience addressed in the DMT theory ?

[Tobi]

Hey,

While I was surfing the web I encountered an article stating that "A DMT trip 'feels like dying' - and scientists now agree" (see BBC for source) . Stating that basically NDEs are brain hallucinations as it is trying to survive and is lacking oxygen. People who experienced DMT claimed similar feelings to NDEs such as "My body just didn't seem relevant any more" or that a Christian might see Jesus that says it is not their time, based on the subconscious, an atheist might not experience anything, and a person who misses his or her family might see some of them also based on the subconscious as it was induced. Seems that scientists are now skeptic about NDEs and Raymond Moody's work since they found this DMT effect.

This made me wonder, are NDEs really a byproduct of DMT ( N,N-Dimethyltryptamine, chemical in brain) kicking in as the brain is desperate for survival? What do you think? Are DMT and NDE related? How can we know that NDEs are real and not hallucinations of the brain, in the sense that they can prove an afterlife, another dimension, and not just a byproduct of DMT?

That's exactly what I used to think it was.

But, if these experiences were DMT hallucinations, then why do they usually follow certain patterns?
If, for instance, other drug-induced hallucinations are examined for content, we'd find that they contain just about anything and everything imaginable, and don't follow any particular "shape" or pattern.

Okay, that possibly could be explained by the increasing attenton NDEs have received, particularly over the last few years.
It could be said that there is a certain subconscious programming going on, as people hear these accounts and could replicate them...

But how do some of the experiences report observation of certain life events, which are completely outside of the ability for normal auditory/visual perception?

For example, there have been cases of people in NDEs who report an out-of-body experience, and an ability to see who and what is in the next room, or in a room further down the corridor....through a wall or multiple walls! And report what they overheard them talk about. And what they reported has been verified.

What about the woman who had an NDE after a heart attack, and saw an abandoned sneaker which was lodged high up on a ledge of the hospital building, not visible from any vantage point she could have reached in her condition? After she mentioned seeing it during her out-of-body /near death incident, staff went to check, and sure enough, there was the sneaker.

A pure hallucination could not come up with results like that, surely?

[Saved65]

What each person experiences can be uniquely different. I'm interested in how others feel and if they have changed days or longer afterward. From what I have read and listened to there seems to be unified thoughts and feelings that those who have had an NDE/STE portray and communicate to others.

[desert rat]

So if we just code on a computer, what happens with us after we die?


I dont believe this teory , but Tom Campbells idea goes some thing like , the code is reused in a new body .

p.s. This is our discussion on a.p. I have watched a few of his vidoes on you tube , he rambles on and is hard to follow .
http://www.astralpulse.com/forums/welcome_to_astral_chat/tom_campbell_afterlife_thoughts_psychic_mediums-t47612.0.html

[Orchid_Goddess]

I have had an NDE. It was a suicide attempt that I was brought back from many years ago. I am certain that I died because of what transpired, what I was told by those who sent me back. They were NOT happy with me, and I was NOT happy to go back. In fact they forced me back to my very vocal upset. I was extremely angry during my experience, and I was told that it wasn’t my time and I was going back. I woke extremely angry. In my experiences there was a sort of vortex of light that I went through, much like a tunnel and it was FAST.

[TheGlow]

During my NDE during which I emerged symptom-free from a 3-day "irreversible coma", I experienced some of the admittedly subjective stuff that has been alluded to in prior posts.

However, during my NDE, I was able to see my brother and sister down the hallway and could accurately describe what they were wearing despite the fact that they never entered the room where I lay "dying".

How is that "remote viewing" verifiable objective experience addressed in the DMT theory ?
I read a book about NDE and that seems to be pretty common.
Heck after my NDE I could see like a tv screen flashes of the future so if after a nde we can see future, then during one I am sure we can travel without the body.

A good book Opening Heavens Door

[Found Goat]

The feeling of happiness is not the result of a positive effect on one’s spirit from an exterior source but rather caused by something physical, be it chemical, a neurotransmitter, or whatever. Can’t sleep? It mustn’t be stress-induced, but rather not enough melatonin in one’s cranial noodle. Hear unseen voices? Must be schizophrenia. And so it goes. If one inhabits a strictly mechanistic world, as most scientists do, the brain and the body, with its fibers and nerves and neurological components, must account for everything that happens to a person concerning that which isn’t caused by an outside source.

Can DMT, a chemical that exists naturally inside the human body and in most plants, cause one to envision NDE-like phenomena, such as the Life Review? It has been reported to, whereas others see this as an instance of science mistaking cause for effect.

When sleepers are hooked up to machines that study brain activity while they slumber, is it the brain activity that is causing the person to sleep or the act of sleep creating the effects on the monitor?

Materialist-minded scientists will attempt any theory that’ll try and restrict human consciousness to organic gray matter. That is only to be expected of them.

DMT within the brain or spinal column, as some researchers have speculated, may also be the cause for some people encountering elves or Reptilians, for example, which is a way of maybe saying that our bodies were created to naturally experience paranormal happenings via a biochemical process or catalyst into the unknown and otherworldly dimensions.

Researcher Dr. Rick Strassman refers to DMT as the “spirit molecule” and his book delves into the theme of DMT and his 1990 study and findings into this matter. His book discusses DMT’s possible connection to NDEs and his view that science ought to be studying the spiritual aspects of life. DMT and its relation to the paranormal is also discussed at some length in Daniel Pinchbeck’s “2001: The Return To Quetzalcoatl,” another excellent read.

[edithaint]

"Of course it is happening inside your head, but why on earth should that mean that it is not real?"

-- Professor Albus Dumbledore

[Found Goat]

DMT and its relation to the paranormal is also discussed at some length in Daniel Pinchbeck’s “2001: The Return To Quetzalcoatl,” another excellent read.

Correcting typo: The book is titled "2012: The Return Of Quetzalcoatl," by Daniel Pinchbeck.

[Miss Hepburn]

Sure, there is a chemical reaction in the brain having a NDE....
many think all Divine or cosmic experiences happen in some sort of vacuum...But, of course,
things are released in the brain.
Makes the experience no less 'what it is'...whatever it is.

Endorphins are released in the brain when you fall in love, too...everhad that happen?
Oh my gosh..you are floating , over the moon, not your normal self.
because these endorphins are present are we not in love...?:wink:
"Oh, it's just endorphins...so it can't be love."

See what I mean...comparisons, I think, help understand better. :smile:





'Opening Heaven's Door', eh? Thanks

[edithaint]

Sure, there is a chemical reaction in the brain having a NDE....
many think all Divine or cosmic experiences happen in some sort of vacuum...But, of course,
things are released in the brain.
Makes the experience no less 'what it is'...whatever it is.

Endorphins are released in the brain when you fall in love, too...everhad that happen?
Oh my gosh..you are floating , over the moon, not your normal self.
because these endorphins are present are we not in love...?:wink:
"Oh, it's just endorphins...so it can't be love."

See what I mean...comparisons, I think, help understand better. :smile:





'Opening Heaven's Door', eh? Thanks

Exactly! :) Like when I say "this animal is my friend", and someone responds with "oh they're just 'conditioned' to like you because you're nice to them"....But of course! Yes, that's "all" friendship is, being conditioned to like each other! That isn't really ALL though!