unoffendable

[Mountain-Goat]

Over the last decade, these are principles I have realised that have developed into a state of being where I am not offended by the negative/abusive/destructive/rude/ignorant/immature/ etc etc etc behavior of others.
Currently, this state of unoffendability runs a tad shy of 24/7.
The only time I am affected by externals is when I experience a particular form of fatigue.
I'm still exploring to determine the source of this issue. I explore with enthusiasm, peace and joy.
These realised principles make up half of my unoffendability. The other half is made of the understanding of myself.

These are not in chronological order.
1: Pet dogs bite.
2: Poison arrows.
3: The attack of the 12 volt man.
4: Round-a-bout rage.
5: Giving and receiving.
6: "Forgive them, they know not what they do."

Please note: These are not truths. I am not proclaiming universal spiritual laws and the like.
I wouldn't know a spiritual law even if someone wacked me over the head with one.
These are my realisations, based upon my observations and experimentations conducted during my life.
If they make sense to you, try them to see if they work for you, or they may reveal new paths for you to explore.
If you do not agree with them, then you do not agree with them.
What has that got to do with the acceptance and application of them in my life? None that I can see.
And if you do not agree with them, don't accept them. It doesn't get any simpler than that
Continue on with your journey. My realisations have no adverse affect on your journey.
Anyways...

1: Pet dogs bite.
Imagine you have a pet dog. This dog has a friendly lovable nature. You've been friends for many years.
But, if he is injured, and you attempt to look at his wound, with the sole intention to help and care for him, he growls and bites you.
Hurting people hurt others.

2: Poison arrows.
A person hurling insults at me is like poison arrows.
Remember the scene from The Fellowship of the Ring where Boromir is hit by those three ginormous arrows.
Being a deeply sensitive type, many words spoken to me felt as painful as Sean Bean brilliantly portrayed.

No shield could withstand these arrows, and once they hit and went deep within, the poison would infect me for days and sometimes weeks or months.
Once the pain subsided, only then could I see to explore the theory of 'hurting people hurt others', and also why I am hurting from these words.

Have you noticed that when you experience a moment of physical pain, you close your eyes - you wince. So too with one's inner sight.
One can have their inner eyes closed for long periods of time depending on two things:
The severity of the pain and the amount of attention one gives to said pain.
Oh, and the belief that there is no cure for this ailment.

I wanted to understand why people do these things, but I realised in order to know, I can't generalise,
I actually have to understand each person within each incident.
I have to see the source of each person's pain, the reason why they are behaving the way they are,
what pain they have that motivates/influences their behavior.

Now, when another fires off poison arrows at me, I do not have to defend, dodge,
disarm or retaliate because, in one sense, I am simply not there.
By the time the arrows hit me, they simply go right through because I am no longer there.
I am inside the other, looking for the source of their pain.

This is not some form of astral travel. This is simply directing my attention, what I choose to focus on.
I can still see the insults, but I am not focused on them. The insult is not important to me, the other's pain is.
The insult is of no import. The other's pain is. It's my goal and I've long gone in search of it.

The arrow came from somewhere, I choose to find out where.
In doing so, the arrow becomes powerless because I have transformed it into a path into the other.
The insult is a doorway into the other's heart.

Haar ! Just saw this. Just like the Improbability Drive on the Heart of Gold when Arthur hits the button
and the two nuclear missles are transformed into a sperm whale and a bowl of petunias !

What I'm specifically looking for is the wound in the other that contains the poison they have attached to their arrows.
The arrow is just the vehicle, the poison is what is important.

One of my fav scenes from The Matrix:
Neo: You mean...I'll be able to dodge bullets?
Morpheus: No. I'm saying that when you are ready, you won't have to.

A month after leaving hospital( 2 years ago), going shopping with my sis, I saw a street preacher. I felt to talk with him.
Intuition wanted to road test the new me...AC 4.0 by my count.
After 10 or so minutes of discussion, he produced his bow.

His insults ranged from how I dressed to how utterly dark my soul was.
I have never seen so many arrows shot in such a short amount of time.
Nowhere near as much as when the army attacked the caligraphy school in Hero, but pretty impressive non the less.

His rage, fear, insecutiy and self condemnation was in full swing and he kept firing off those arrows.
Externally, I'm relaxed, a gentle smile on my dial.
Internally, I'm observing AC 4.0. "Wow...no way...how cool is this !", I remarked in awe.

That particular experience was not for me to understand the preacher. It was for me to observe myself.
To witness the powerful transformation that had taken place during my time in hospital.

3: The attack of the 12 volt man.
Many moons ago I used to hang at Christianforums.com.
During my time there I had deconverted and I would then spend my time in the Apologetics section.
There was this christian, 12voltman, and in one particular thread he stood firm that the first tsunami that hit Indonesia
was because god was punishing the people for their evil ways.
He didn't say it directly. Me and another guy saw what he was inferring and so we confronted him about it.

I'm in Oz and 12voltman is in the US and I could feel his anger buffeting me as if he were standing right in my face yelling.
I've experienced the underlying energy realm many times before,
but I was most fascinated to feel another's energy from so far away.
Two people have just had an argument, you walk into the room and, "you could cut the atmosphere with a knife."
The room is full of emotional energy, discharged by the two arguing.

At this time of my life, I was still processing the marriage breakup and a few other things
and I did not need any more pain thankyou very much.
"No no, thanks for the offer, but I have more than enough to keep me occupied at this time."

Because of this new info that I can be affected by others from so far away, I pondered what to do.
I changed my frequency. Right there and then. And as I did that, the buffeting stopped.
I reasoned that 12voltman's anger was resonating at a certain frequency and all I had to do
was change mine so his waves of anger passed through me instead of buffet me.
(This is also part of the Non Resistance Way in Eastern teachings, but I hadn't come to that path yet.
The way of water - fluid, flexible, can be penetrated but not affected.)

I didn't have to know the exact number of the frequencies, or do any calculations.
I simply declared that I change my frequency so his anger energy passes through me.
I reasoned that my inner intuitive self would do all the necessary calculations.
I declared, my inner self did the calculations, and the buffeting stopped instantly. Boo-yah !
　
4: Round-a-bout rage.
I began to increase my inner peace and understanding as the years rolled along but I found myself
still becoming quite angry when others would cut me off in round-a-bouts.
There were still many other experiences that would upset me, but the round-a-bout ones, comparitively, were quite intense.
"What's going on here?", I enquired, to which I would ponder and explore.

And like all the other realisations, there were two paths to explore. What's my dysfunction,
and what's the other's dysfunction, in the context of the experience/incident?

I was offended because I took it personally. That bloke cut me off !
No, he did not cut me off. He cut another car off. If it wasn't me, it would have been someone else.
It was not a personal attack. He doesn't know me from a bar of soap, how can he attack me personally !
His dysfunction was he was not considerate of others. He was living impersonally.
He was living detached from the reality that there are others just like him in the other cars.
"I am not cutting a person off, it's just a car", would be his thinking.

My fav in round-a-bouts is when another cuts me off and I honk them and they give me the finger.
Haar! They are so contained in their world that when they do something wrong,
they abuse the other for bringing it to their attention.
"Woo, you go grrl !"

5: Giving and receiving.
In order for an insult to have any affect, two things have to happen.
One, a person has to give it, and two, another has to receive it.
Both have to happen. If I don't receive, no amount of giving will produce any hurt in me.
I don't know how it is or was for you, but I lived for many years with receiving set to automatic on.

There were many reasons for this.
: I accepted the info as truth because I did not know myself.
: I had no functioning inner boundaries and everything went in.
: I had next to no self esteem and insults confirmed my lack of self worth.
The bottom line about insults must be I believed them to be true, otherwise I would not receive them, and/or,
the insults were similar to what I already unconsciously thought of myself,
so I accepted them as additions to the list of why I was of little worth.

Tangent: You know what I find illogical about the english language?
Well, plenty, but here's one. Believe and receive. One is "ie" and the other is "ei". RAAR ! ~ laughs~

If someone tries to insult me by telling me I am fat, their insult has no affect because I know I am skinny.
I simply do not accept their opinion, based solely on my self knowledge.
There is no effort to defend myself against this insult, no struggle, no desire to retaliate/hate, etc.
Their insult is null and void because there statement is false data, compared to the data of my self knowledge.

The question then is, why have I taken insult X in? Why have I received it?
My energy and focus is then directed away from defense, feeling hurt, retaliation/hatred, etc, toward self exploration, to gain understanding of myself.

Doing this, I become aware of myself, my feelings, thoughts and actions. Why I do, why I think and why I feel XYZ.
And in doing so, my dysfunctions are revealed and then I can change them. I can begin the healing process.
The insult is not the source of my pain, it was only the trigger, the catalyst, an in-fluence.
The pain manifests because I chose to accept the insult, I took it in, received it and the insult has touched a wound.

Now, if someone calls me an idiot, it has no affect because I know myself.
I know I am imperfect, but I also know I am not an idiot.
Instead of feeling hurt or anger, responding in defense, retaliation or self condemnation,
I joyfully am fascinated as to how they came to their conclusion and I will ask them to share how they did so.
I have a fascination of their perception of reality and I want to understand it and them.

I now know who I am, and if they answer I will get to know who they are too.
In general, people who express via insults won't share this info because that means they have to delve into themselves,
as one reason for insulting others is to avoid oneself.
But, I still ask because I love people. People are my favorite types of people.
　
6: "Forgive them, they know not what they do."
This is the classic statement spoken by Jesus when he was hangin' on the cross
and the multitude were verbally and physically abusing him.
I had read this passage many times during my journey on the christian path,
and I never got the realisation of what he was saying.

I was always inspired by this act of love, but the complete understanding, the intricacies,
the depth of what those words meant, did not penetrate deep enough for me to have a realisation.
His life, his attitude, his energy, his way of being were still in my internal box labeled, 'not possible for me to achieve.'
A glorious ideal, one which I was walking and working toward, but not realistically possible.

I then left the christian path and began walking the Eastern path - Buddha, Zen, Tao, etc.
Seeds sown many moons ago by my fascination, wonder and enjoyment of Astro Boy, Shintaro The Samurai, The Phantom Agents, Kung Fu(David Carradine), Pokemon, Dragonball Z,
Monkey, Akira, Ghost in the Shell, The Ninja Scroll, Once upon a time in China, Crouching Tiger Hidden Dragon, etc.

"Forgive them, they know not what they do."
They know not what they do. Jesus was saying these people were unconscious of what they were doing.
Unaware of their thoughts and motives of why they were abusing him.
Lost, blind. The Eastern equivalents are Unconsciousness, Asleep, Unawareness.

On the surface, they were aware of their actions and feelings within the incident,
but deeper in, were totally unaware of why they were behaving so.
Like stunned cattle. One cow starts running and the rest follow, totally oblivious as to why they are running.
Check out the looks on cows when they have stopped running. They are bewildered.
"Hey, what were we running for, there's no danger anywhere's...what the hel...oh look, grass, nom nom nom."

If a blind person bumped into you, would you be offended?
(In this scenario, you don't have profound pysychological or emotional dysfunctions)
If a blind person bumped into you, would you be offended?
No. Why? Because the person is blind. They do not have the ability to see. This is why they bumped into you.
You are aware their disability is the reason they bumped into you.
They did not bump into you on purpose, it's not a personal attack.
So too with people unconscious of themselves. Their disability is they can't see why they are abusive.

They are doing, behaving, living, without knowing why.
They have a level of awareness of what they are doing, but they don't know why.
They cannot see the dysfunction inside themselves that influences their abusive behavior.
They cannot see that a hurting person will hurt another.
They cannot see that their own hurt is influencing their choice to hurt others.

Jesus forgave them because they had no idea what they were doing.
He called it, being lost or blind.
Lost within their world of self created pain, blind to the fact they are lost within it.
All they see and feel is that people and events are the cause of their pain,
so they lash out at these things, or sometimes, themselves.
They do not see that the souce of their pain are their wounds that they already carry,
and that people and events merely bump into these wounds.

Heal your wounds and no person can hurt you.
In this healed state all you will see is the wound in the other.
Yes, that wound that others keep bumping into is initially created by another hurting you.
Is it? Look carefully, that person did not hurt you, you chose to be hurt.
Yes, there is an intention to hurt you, but at the base level,
self creates the pain via acceptance, by the recieivng of the intended abuse.
All internal wounds are self created, you were simply not aware of it.

That's how one gets off the repetative cycle of being hurt and wounded.
It's not the other, the external incident that creates the wound. It's self created.
And if it's self created, it can be uncreated. It can be healed.
The healing comes via the journey of self exploration.
One begins to understand self, how the dysfuction works and then one is able to
deconstruct the dysfunctional/destructive thinking pattern and construct a functional/productive one.
And in doing so one begins to understand why others behave the way they do.

I am not offended when a blind person bumps into me, nor am I offended
when an internally blind person lashes out at me, fueled by their inner pain.

This journey has been one of a continuous increase in understanding.
Somehow, compassion and love for myself and others has also increased.
Somehow, the increase in understanding releases/removes my dysfunctions/wounds and all I can conclude it that when they are removed, love shines through.
It appears to happen automatically that love shines through.
Ah but, isn't it love/compassion that is the driving force, the motivation to seek understanding in the first place?
Looking at it either way, love seems to be the core of my being, according to my current level of self awareness.

[psychoslice]

Hi Alternate Carpark, this is the best by far of all that I have read of your writings, I know exactly what your saying, thanks for sharing.:hug3:

[Silver]

I barely made it through forgive them, but yeah, it's all good stuff.
I think my new sig should be "forgive me, I'm an old woman."

[Graelwyn]

Fantastic post, I read it all, and it is very much the place I am aiming to reach, for like you I allowed myself to be deeply wounded and affected by the words of others, due to incredible low self esteem, bought about by childhood wounds.

Very useful and helpful post, I applaud you.
I hope I also reach the level you are at, if I am not already there.
I think I have a little way to go still since I have only just begun to work on it consciously, via the same routes actually.

[Wolf63]

Great post, Thanks it all makes sense to me.

[in progress]

Nice stuff!

[sound]

Hi AC
I also enjoyed reading what you shared there.

This statement below was one of several that jumped out at me ...

If someone tries to insult me by telling me I am fat, their insult has no affect because I know I am skinny.

If you are not offended because you are skinny, are you revealing that you would be offended if someone said the same thing and you were clinically overweight? Please know that i am not splitting hairs ... I am truly interested in your response .. i have also found myself moving beyond 'being' offended' a good deal of the time and have indeed pondered whether it is because i am, in part, becoming desensitized, as well as discovering that there is a lot less to be offended about lol :hug3:

[Emmalevine]

Really useful post thanks :smile:

[athribiristan]

sweet. Sounds like you are right on. Thanks for the post

[lanbee]

I agree also. It takes practice but it's so refreshing to "see" when others apparently can't. I am ready for everybody to start waking up. :D

[blackfellawhitefella]

nice read ac

so glad i saved the experience , to start my day with.

i hope tassy is laying it on for you and yours.

blessings






.

[arive nan]

Thank you for posting this AC :)

[Mountain-Goat]

Thread saved for home. will post replies next time I'm online.

In the meantime. Thanks all and look forward to further discussion.

Hey, blackfellawhitefella. You know it ! Taz continues to lay a most sumptuous spread for me daily,
to which feast upon, peacefully, joyfully and with clear and balanced intent.
And I haven't even begun my deep meditative jaunts amongst the natural wonders down here.

I'm so busy. Good old fashioned joy to be alive busy, that I hardly even stop to look at the clouds.
But when I do...my heart just opens up expansively and tears fill my eyes.
All the more sweeter because I then think,
"Oh my gosh, 2 years ago I tried to kill myself. 40+ years of traversing through hell, that nearly killed me, only to emerge in this most beautiful existance."

I'd have to be bonkers to not tearfully appreciate the simple freedom I now have.
Taz roxorz!!!

Speaking of sweet, check out this rainbow (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X81Y5cee9w4) I got on my fone the other day.

[blackfellawhitefella]

wow , that was cool

never seen that before


i think a lot of us went through the ...i wanna get out of this hellhole journey AC

your certainly not the only one

early on i remember a 'spiritualist worker' (easiest way to describe her) saying to me ...commit to the journey gary

'that' thoughting loop , is the trap


hmmmmmm , tough times indeed.

onya bloke :hug2:

[arive nan]

Whoa.. circle rainbow. What does it mean...?

:laughing7:

[Mountain-Goat]

Just a quick hello.
I've come to scottsdale to see a man about a ute.
I saw it yesterday, and the ol' synchro senses were tingling as I gave the ute a quick once over.

Going to take it for a test drive soon and give it a more thorough look see.
Yeah the rainbow ! It was, as you know, far more beautiful in real life.
I watched if for 15 mins or so.

One of the locals said tazzie gets them regularly.
What does it mean?
I do not know if there are any universally accepted meanings to them, but things like this always go deep inside.
Telling me profound things that bypass language and just goes straight to my core.

But hey, I do that with leaves, twigs and all manner of things ~laughs~

[arive nan]

I should have linked this in the last post lol. I was referring to an internet meme.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OQSNhk5ICTI

[Mountain-Goat]

I should have linked this in the last post lol. I was referring to an internet meme.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OQSNhk5ICTI

Internet meme? ~googled~ oh, right.
~laughs~ the mind boggles as to what people might come up with.

Ooh a double bow. Nice ! I saw one a few years ago.
And last year, a horizontal one. It wasn't that long but it was vibrant.
~laughs~ look out we are hijacking the thread.

[Mountain-Goat]

Hi Alternate Carpark, this is the best by far of all that I have read of your writings, I know exactly what your saying, thanks for sharing.
YAY ! Thanks for your thoughts, psychoslice.

[Mountain-Goat]

I barely made it through forgive them, but yeah, it's all good stuff.
I think my new sig should be "forgive me, I'm an old woman."
But the old woman did make it through the post. You go grrl !

Remember Roy and HG's The Dream during the Sydney Olympics.
They ran a competition for people to submit original songs for the official song for the olympics.
The one which won...haar..the one which won...which one? Who's on first? What's on second?
The one which won, the chorus was "Go you good thing !"
Whatshisface came and sang it on their last show...hmm...the sadie the cleaning lady guy...oh, John Farhnam.

[Mountain-Goat]

Fantastic post, I read it all, and it is very much the place I am aiming to reach, for like you I allowed myself to be deeply wounded and affected by the words of others, due to incredible low self esteem, bought about by childhood wounds.
You are aware you have allowed it so you're well into your journey Graelwyn, to which I surmise you may already know but I mention it because
on my journey there were many times I had no idea if I was making any progress, which is related to how dark each valley was that I was traversing at the time.
Acknowledgement/acceptance, envisioning/pondering and consciously persuing understanding is half the battle won.
I see from your words you do this, so what you seek and more is assured if you continue your journey.

The positives when one has low self esteem, according to what I've seen on my journey are,
no or miniscule arrogance, the only way is up; ie sometimes the only way to go up is to push oneself up from the very bottom,
courage and strong will to have lived within the crushing depths of low self esteem,
an already high level of self awareness, honest self confrontation and evaluation and more...
Very useful and helpful post, I applaud you.
~slightly bows in acknowledgement~
If one person is aided on thier journey by what I have seen on mine, it increases the high value I already have of the hell I walked through, and it's always a joy to walk with fellow travellers.
I hope I also reach the level you are at, if I am not already there.
I think I have a little way to go still since I have only just begun to work on it consciously, via the same routes actually.
"All strong souls first go to hell before they do the healing of the world they came here for. If we are lucky, we return to help those still trapped below." - Clarissa Pinkola Estes

"The basic principle of spiritual life is that our problems become the very place to discover wisdom and love." - Jack Kornfield

"The limiting beliefs and self-doubts that plague most of us are formidable opponents. One of the most effective ways of dealing with these harsh internal messages is to learn to question every single should and limiting belief with the gentle innocence of children." - Maggie Craddock

"The limits you create will be real to you until you learn to step beyond them. Then they will cease to be real. Then, you will look back at the reality you used to inhabit and feel claustrophobic, wondering how you were able to stand its narrow confines." - Paul Ferrini

"If you want to follow me to freedom, be prepared to swim upstream, against the river of conditioning.
Be prepared to grapple continuously with the fierce flow of negative mental currents. In time our strokes will become effortless and our sense of purpose irresistible." - Buddha

"Mindfulness refers to keeping one's consciousness alive to the present reality. It is the miracle by which we master and restore ourselves." - Thich Nhat Hanh

[Mountain-Goat]

Great post, Thanks it all makes sense to me.
Tnx. I'm a huge fan of understanding. With it one is able to progress, change, heal, do all manner of things.

[Mountain-Goat]

Nice stuff!
~smiles and nods~
And by the way, this has been on my mind, for like, ever. And haar at me if I have already mentioned it.
I like your name. in progress - the journey of life is continuous.
A journey of wonder. Of course, going through the dark valleys, initially, are not fun or wonderous.

But when one has made a breakthrough, healed an issue, solved a problem, then one sees how amazingly awesome and beautiful existance is, those mountain top moments.
And then, from the view on top, one sees how profound and beautiful and infinite life is and one sees how much more progress one has yet to accomplish and experience.
And if the potential, the possibilities one sees is anything or more than what one has just experienced,
then the jaw drops and the heart does that indescribable thing that it does so well in situations like these.

[Mountain-Goat]

Hi AC
I also enjoyed reading what you shared there.
This statement below was one of several that jumped out at me ...
If someone tries to insult me by telling me I am fat, their insult has no affect because I know I am skinny.
If you are not offended because you are skinny, are you revealing that you would be offended if someone said the same thing and you were clinically overweight? Please know that i am not splitting hairs ... I am truly interested in your response .. i have also found myself moving beyond 'being' offended' a good deal of the time and have indeed pondered whether it is because i am, in part, becoming desensitized, as well as discovering that there is a lot less to be offended about lol
No no, splitting hairs is acceptable and welcomed, so thankyou sound.
It's exploring, getting into a thing, and I always enjoy and am enthusiastic to do so.
And upon you doing so it has revealed the error of the usage of that as an example.

Let me offer, upon reflection, a better example and answer to your enquiry.
~smiles~ Well I hope it's better. As I observe it, it looks way better.

Bin the overweight part because that is not part of my reality.

I am skinny, always have been. Whilst growing up, I never paid no heed to my physical appearance till my late pre teens and beyond.
I began to feel shame because men are big and strong and musclely, and I was becoming aware that I did not have that.
It's not only girls that have body image issues.

It quickly developed into such deep shame that it was painful to go swimming in public, with family I was ok.
Teens to 20's I would not wear shorts.
It never occured to me to do weights to build my body up.
My life for many years was a self feeding cycle that perpetuated the low self esteem.
Can't build the body up and like myself as that contradicts the worthless belief that was buried deep within.

So, during those years, if someone made fun of my skinny body, it would hurt deep, because it hit the wound, it exposed the shame.
Mid 30's was when I started the serious self exploring, and after many issues were sorted, it dawned on me that I actually like my skinny body.

Now, insults or jokes about it have no affect because I carry no wounds or shame of it.
Now, if someone said I was skinny, with intent to insult, I would simply congratulate them on their powers of observation,
and would then ask do they have issues with skinniness.

Regarding desensitivity.
And, it's been two days since reading your post, and the info from observing this word is still coming in.
Pages and pages. The difficulty is containing all this info in the least amount of words possible or choosing what to share.

Sensitivity is the ability to sense. It's neutral and it's only within the context of situations does the classification of good or bad form.
Put your hand next to fire, sensing informs and you pull away = good.
A person flirts with you, your senses translate the info into arousal, you have sex, this ends your marriage = bad.

Sensitivity is strongly linked with awareness. Awareness is the ability to see and understand. Seeing is a sense.
And this seeing is one's inner sight, one's insight. The sixth sense. The ability to see into a thing.
To get into it. To see beyond the range of the other five senses.
Sensitivity is needed to progress. To sense something is to be aware of it.

Being less sensitive can come from two opposing directions.
If an inner wound has been healed, you no longer feel pain there.
Erecting a defence around the self also produces less pain. Build a solid enough wall and no pain is felt. The thick skinned thing.

However, both ways are not a reduction in sensitivity. In both cases, the sensitivity, the ability to sense, is still the same.
The former produces less sensation because the wound is healed, and the latter produces less because nothing can touch the wound.
The only reason to form a thick skin is to protect self from harm, usually because harm has already been experienced.
The sensations/feelings have reduced but not the ability to sense - one's sensitivity.

There are several pros and cons to both ways, but I look at the end result.
With a wall, pain is reduced quickly, but healing is never achieved, one only thinks all is well.
With the other, it takes a lot longer to reduce the feelings, but eventually one is truly healed.

The dark night of the soul, the walking through the valley of shadow and death scenarios, they are by my experiences,
a person choosing to heal themself instead of hiding behind the safety of the wall.
Once healed, walls are no longer needed. Once healed, externals no longer affect or influence permanent change within.

But in order to take this journey and be successful at it, one must be keenly sensitive to see and feel the wounds that need healing.
But in doing so, it becomes a painful journey.
The wounds have to be touched, explored, gone into, understood. This is a painful process.
But as the journey progresses, the pain reduces as each wound is healed and pain gives way to enthusiasm and joy,
excitement of what will be the next wound to heal.

The more walls that are removed, the more freedom one has.
There is pain behind the wall, but compared to what one sees beyond the wall, the devastation of accumilated wounds, the pain behind the wall is small.
Venturing out beyond the relative comfort can be daunting. I ran back to my safe house many many times on my journey.
But each time I did venture out, I increased in understanding, courage, etc, within each tiny step.
15 years of one step at a time and I have arrived at a place of immense beauty, wonder and freedom.

~smiles~ Went off with the faeries again.
Work out the mechanism of your desensitivity. Look below the feelings, the sensations. Look and you will see.

[Mountain-Goat]

Really useful post thanks
sweet. Sounds like you are right on. Thanks for the post
You're most welcome Starbuck and athribiristan.
Though I have no idea if my observations are right. They make sense, I use them, they work.
That's good enough for me and I remain fluid to change if new info comes to light.

[Mountain-Goat]

I agree also. It takes practice but it's so refreshing to "see" when others apparently can't. I am ready for everybody to start waking up. :D

Everyone can see lanbee. There's just different levels of sight.
It's how a person responds to what they see that determines their progress.

The terms 'blind', 'lost' and 'unconscious' are not absolutes.
There is no way for a person to wake up if they remain in an unconscious state.
In order for a person to awaken, they must have a percentage of awareness to do so.
They must be aware that there is a state beyond the state they are in to be willing to change,
otherwise they would remain asleep.

So, those that are awake or are awakening, shine your light on those still groping around in their dark worlds.
Don't wait, do something about it.

And the best light I have experienced is love. Compassionate understanding.
Shine your light into the world in your day to day activities.
People are watching all the time, looking for some kind of way out of their darkness.

"Be the change you want to see in the world" - The Dalia Lahma

[Mountain-Goat]

wow , that was cool

never seen that before


i think a lot of us went through the ...i wanna get out of this hellhole journey AC

your certainly not the only one

early on i remember a 'spiritualist worker' (easiest way to describe her) saying to me ...commit to the journey gary

'that' thoughting loop , is the trap


hmmmmmm , tough times indeed.

onya bloke :hug2:
I so agree. Just look at all the people in here who are on journeys, the people who have books published sharing their insights from their journeys.

That "commit to the journey", was that a defining moment for you?

[arive nan]

I have taken these principles out for a bit of a spin. For the most part it has been brilliant. I’ll start by saying that. A friend of mine made a statement in our online group that hit a nerve with me. It was said to everyone, but it was an insult that applied to a large number of people including me whether he was thinking of me at the time or not. I felt hurt, because he knows it applies to me for one thing and it was unreasonable for another. He was arguing with someone who had a controversial viewpoint and insulting her profusely and included statements that negatively judged everyone who was not speaking up to throw insults at this girl and everyone who doesn’t speak up to throw insults at people like her in general.

If I were someone who had never been hurt by a person who wanted me to hate and insult the people he hates before I would have had a different perspective. This friend is not someone who would want to be hurtful towards me and he wasn’t very serious about this. But I was quite disturbed. Some very old wounds were irritated and I started to fear that he is like those others who had hurt me in the past, which is what I always wonder when someone does something that reminds me of them. I was angry that he would try to shame people, including me, into throwing profane insults at someone because he felt offended by her. I did speak up to say, without profanity, that they are both being illogical idiots. Then I later told him in private that I don’t share her controversial viewpoint. It took some bravery for me to start that conversation. I was still afraid that this guy would be doing a complete 180 in his behaviour towards me like others in the past have done. I fretted about it, then consulted my cards. Then when we chatted he was acting like his normal self towards me.

I still felt bothered by the whole thing. We became friends because I thought he accepted me the way I am. Now the way I am is not okay because I don’t like to swear at people he doesn’t like and verbally attack them? I was trying to figure out how seriously to take that and feeling confused and hurt. So I tried to apply some of these principles to the situation. Hurting people hurt others. This girl’s own insults weren’t the problem. It was the controversy involving a sensitive topic and her willful ignorance of how her viewpoint is disrespectful towards a large number of grieving people. I won’t go into detail. My friend doesn’t know how personally I take it when someone in any way sounds like they are trying to get me to become a weapon for them. He just knows he wanted more people to join him. He’s not fully aware of what he’s doing or why it is a problem. I could feel a bit less angry and hurt when focusing on that.

Then I tried to deal with my own ancient wounds. I couldn’t get very far with that except to spend some time thinking about the function they serve. I want to never again get close enough to the type of person who would inflict wounds like this on anyone. They have a supernatural quality in mind, like Harry Potter’s scar that throbs with pain when He Who Shall Not be Named is near. My friends actually did avoid saying the name of one of these guys. We’d say You Know Who instead or something. The name was censored on one of their forums. His personality is very much like Voldemort’s, as that character was modeled after the same personality disorder. I want these wounds healed, and my conscious efforts have gone towards this, but part of me is afraid that if they are gone it will be easier for the dark lords of the world to get near me and just inflict me with a new wound. That’s when I wonder if I have to heal this first or if I can become unhurtable first. Thinking about these things could bring me closer to the answer, but I still don’t know.

That’s also when I encounter a problem with the message that people choose to be hurt. It is not freeing for me. I know others find it to be for some reason. But for me it is a roadblock. I wonder “Why would I choose to be hurt? That’s not what I want. What is wrong with me that I would choose that? And why can’t I just stop then? What’s wrong with me that I can’t just stop?” It is the opposite of progress. I didn’t get past this thing that is a road block for me until I examined it enough to decide that it is not true in my opinion and I’m better off not believing it. It’s like saying people choose to fall down when they slip on some ice. Nobody chooses that. They’re not trying to fall down. It happens because they don’t see the ice, or they don’t have enough skill at sliding along without falling, or their shoes don’t have enough traction. It’s not what they are choosing to do. They are trying to stay upright. If they could use a different route with no ice on the path or they were practiced enough to slide along without falling that’s what they would do. But not everyone is able to do that.

Being hurt isn’t what people choose. Nobody would choose that if they were aware that not being hurt is an option and able to make use of that option. When someone tries to hurt another, they aren’t just handing that poison arrow over so that the recipient can plunge it into their own chest. They throw those arrows at a speed faster than would allow most people to get out of the way or catch it in mid-air. The ultimate solution is a matrixesque revelation that there is no arrow and no chest for it to plunge into, which is an enlightenment that few are ever able to achieve. Most people don’t even know that reaching this level of enlightenment is an option for them, and even those that do will not get there overnight. In the meantime, we are not deciding to let those arrows penetrate us. They hit us because we haven’t yet become able to fully prevent this. But if we believe that it is a choice anyway, that can complicate things. It can lead to confusing questions that have no answer because their premise is not entirely sound. I know some people benefit from believing it, but self-blame is an issue for me so it doesn’t work well with that. I might not be the only one like this.

I don’t mean to sound too critical. Really, it’s generally a quite helpful set of principles. I’m just sharing my experiments with them.

[sound]

AC ... thank you for responding with such depth. Lots of things you expressed resonated with me. I understand totally where you are coming from with regards to 'being' thin. I was very thin for 26 yrs ... about 2 yrs ago i regained my 'average' weight for height, and have managed to keep it on, however reading about your past anxieties was like reading my memoirs lol I was always a healthy eater and it bothered me that others would think i was experiencing anorexia. In fact i attended a two day training session based on Eating Disorders as part of my work and I can remember being so conscious of what others in the class thought of me as i did truly look almost as thin as some of the patients in the video we viewed. As it happened, lunch was provided and i 'pigged out' as usual lol ... then i withheld going to the loo afterwards because i thought others would think I was going to 'purge' ... that was several years ago and wouldn't bother me in the slightest now ... i was much less secure in myself at that time.

Desensitized ... not the best choice of word i guess ... I suppose after reflecting on what you have shared, it isn't so much that i don't experience, or indeed try to block that 'sense' of this or that, but rather finding the strength of character to allow all that is "not effective' to flow around me instead of getting sucked into the vortex :D thanks again for your time and energy :hug3:

[blackfellawhitefella]

i would like to say it was a defining moment AC , but i am nothing if not stubborn

being generally across my subject matter ,
i listen to few

and am quite willing to cut off my nose to spite my face in regards to doing things MY way

BUT .... i didn't stare down the oncoming train ,

so ... the journey continues



side note : i am the happiest , most content (also the brokest :smile: )and the most comfortable in my own skin , that i have so far expierienced in this paradigm

imagine if i had of taken the long term solution to the short term problem/s


what a waste of an opportunity



ps ,
thankyou Spirit, for carrying me , when i was unable to carry myself.





.

[blackfellawhitefella]

although

i do need to thank those ,

who reminded me

to not look outside of myself , for Love.








.

[Mountain-Goat]

EDIT: Recent replies are saved for reading at home.

Behind the insults.
These examples are more accusations than insults, but the end result can be the same, being offended. You can feel insulted.

I don't like you.
I'm constantly amazed upon learning the meaning of words.
Like, means similar.
So, when a person says they don't like you, all they are saying is you and they are not the same.
How can you be offended if someone says, "We are not the same."
However...

If they speak the word in a certain tone and inflection, it conveys they are disgusted about an attribute of yours, or all of you.
This way becomes a definate attempt to insult, to state that you, or part of you is of little or no value.
But all they are doing is expressing thier disgust, it's not yours.
No reason to feel what they feel about your attribute or self, unless, you agree with them, if you have self worth issues already.

If you use 'like' as a verb, you get, "I don't prefer you."
This can produce offense because it conjurs up, "What's wrong with me for them to not prefer me?
Am I undesirable, not good enough, are they criticising me, am I not likable?"
But those thoughts are again, generated by self's low self worth, self criticism, because if a person doesn't prefer you,
all they're saying, is they see incompatibilities and they prefer someone who is compatible with their preferences, to which each person is entitled to.
Doesn't mean there's anything wrong with you. Their disgust of you or attribute that they do not prefer, simply reveals their dsyfunctional thinking.
Even in this situation of using 'like' as a verb, it still comes back to similarities.

You think you're so smart.
When someone says to you, "You think you're so smart", who's doing the thinking? They are, not you.
But they are saying it in this way to try to convince you that you are thinking it,
and convince themself that they have not created this conclusion.
They are trying to transform an assumption into a fact.
They are looking at you, and they are thinking and concluding you are being smart.
They think this, not you. Also, they are not asking you, they are stating, proclaiming.
They are trying to convince you, usually by some form of aggression, that their evaluation is the truth about you.
They are avoiding their esteem issues by making you look like the one with the problem.
They do all this unconsciously.
This is hilighted better in this next one.

You think you're better than me.
Again, who's doing the thinking? They are. Again, spoken to convince you that you are thinking this.
They are looking at you and doing a specific type of evaluation. They are comparing you to themself.
When they do this, they are comparing you to them, and they see, evaluate then conclude that they are less than you.
In order to avoid this painful fact...it's not a real fact, but they believe it is due to their esteem issues...it's a fact to them.
In order to avoid this fact, they switch their focus away from themself onto you.
Then comes the abuse, insults, accusations and judgementalisingismests.
They project their pain onto you via the above expressions. Self loathing is ineffectively dealt with by hating others.
It temporarily covers over it, but it will resurface again and again unless it is properly dealt with.
They do all this unconsciously.

If someone say this to you, or something similar, compassionately offer an alternative.
Insulter: "You think you're better than me."
You: "No, but it appears you're thinking you're less than me. Wanna talk about it?"

Ever been in a heated argument, but later, once the emotions have settled,
you can replay the whole experience and pinpoint places where you should've said this,
shouldn't have said that, or where you fell into emotional mode and rationality exited stage right?
Got caught up in the currents, the whirlwinds, lost your composure, gave way to anger, etc?

Later on, when you have time to observe the incident, then you can see what was happening, see their dysfunctions,
see yours and work out what to change and conclude the way you would have liked to act.
If only you had the same amount of time during the incident. To be able to not be offended within the incident.

Live from your calm unaffected centre, the place where time is eternal, your vision is clear and you can take all the time needed
to see all the things that would normally trigger thoughts, feelings and actions you do not want to do.
From your calm timeless center, the impossible becomes possible, the incurable becomes curable, light increases, darkness recedes
understanding increases, mysteries are revealed, lost becomes found, confusion gives way to clarity, chains dissolve,
tangled messes are straightened and simplified, love enriches every element of your being and radiates out.
Well, that's been my experiences thus far.

I watched a doco about Noam Chomsky. He was in a public debate and his apponent went to town on him.
Noam, in response, was calm, even while he listened to his apponent's attacks against his character.
He effortlessly kept to the issues of the debate and expressed no ill feelings toward his apponent.

Here's another fav Buddha story. It's from the first Eastern book I bought back in 2007.

Gautam Buddha was surrounded by a crowd that was abusing him, using ugly words, obscene words,
because he was against the organised religion of the Hindus and against the Hindu holy scriptures, the Vedas.
He had condemned the priesthood, saying that these were exploiters, parasites. Naturally, the Brahmans were enraged.

This was a Brahman village through which he was passing, and the Brahmans surrounded him and said every kind of bad thing that they could manage.
He listened silently.
His disciples became angry, but because Buddha was present, it was not courteous for them to say anything.
The master was standing so silent, and listening as if these people were saying sweet things.

Finally Buddha said to them, "If the things that you wanted to say to me are finished, I would like to go on to the next village where people are waiting for me.
But if you are not finished, after a few days I will be returning and I will inform you. Then I will have enough time to listen to all that you want to say."

One man said, "Do you think that we are saying something? We are condemning you !
Do you understand or not? Because anybody else would become angry, and you are standing silently..."

The statement that Buddha made to these village people is immensely significant.
He said, "You have come a little too late. If you had come ten years ago when I was insane as you are,
not a single person would have left here alive."

Ten years ago he was a prince, a warrior, one of the best archers of his time, a great swordsman, and those Brahmans...
he could have removed their heads with a single blow, without any difficulty,
because those Brahmans know nothing about swords or arrows or being a warrior.
He would have cut them almost like vegetables.

He said, "You have come too late. Ten years ago if you had come...but now I am no longer insane; I cannot react.
But I would like to ask you one question.
In the last village, people came with sweets, fruits and flowers to receive me;
however, we take food only once a day, and we had already taken our food.
And we don't carry things, so we had to tell them, "You please forgive us, we cannot accept these sweets, fruits and flowers.
We accept your love, but these things you will have to keep."

"I want to ask you", he said to the angry crowd,
"What must they have done with the sweets, fruits and flowers they had brought as presents for us?"

One man said, "What is the mystery in it? They must have distributed them all throughout the village."

Buddha said, "That makes me very sad. What will you do, because I don't accept what you have brought,
in the same way I did not accept the sweets, fruits and flowers that the people brought me in the other village.
If I don't accept your obscenities, your ugly words, your dirty words...if I don't accept them, what can you do?
What are you going to do with all this garbage that you have come with?

You will have to take it back to your homes and give it to your wifes, to your children, to your neighbors.
You will have to distribute it, because I refuse to take it.
And you cannot make me angry unless I accept your humiliation, your insult.
Ten years ago, I was not conscious; if somebody had insulted me, he would have lost his head immediately.
I had no idea that insulting me is his problem, and that I have nothing to do with it. I can simply listen and go on my way."

[numerouno]

Thank you for giving me remembrance of Buddha.

That story changed me also when I first read it.

[Mountain-Goat]

i would like to say it was a defining moment AC , but i am nothing if not stubborn
being generally across my subject matter ,
i listen to few
and am quite willing to cut off my nose to spite my face in regards to doing things MY way
BUT .... i didn't stare down the oncoming train ,
so ... the journey continues
Name three of your positive qualities bfwf.
"Most problems precisely defined are already partially solved." - Harry Lorayne
Seeing and acknowledging what hinders you is part of the journey.
Part of the journey is to shed these things to enable one to go further.
The joyful breakthroughs occur after going through these unpleasant things.
side note : i am the happiest , most content (also the brokest )and the most comfortable in my own skin , that i have so far expierienced in this paradigm
I hear ya !
My inner life blossomed in proportion to the withering of my outer life.
I lost wife, family, home, income, health..accumilating in trying to take my life.
I lost all these things, but gained a deep and rich inner life, which, is now being transposed into my new outer life here in tassie.
imagine if i had of taken the long term solution to the short term problem/s
what a waste of an opportunity
ps ,
thankyou Spirit, for carrying me , when i was unable to carry myself.
　
Not taking any route would be a waste of the opportunity.
The time taken is precisely how long it takes.
I used to look back and think I could have done it quicker.
But it's only looking back through the abilities I have now that says I could have done it quicker.
I did not have these abilities back then. The time taken is irrelivant. The important thing is, is progress being achieved each day?
If I have moved an inch, then that's a successful day.
If I have not moved an inch, but I have realised what is hindering me, gained more understanding of it, then that's a successful day.
If I have given up and am sitting by the path's edge, exhausted and dazed, but I still am able to think of the journey and know that I have overdone it and I need to rest, then that is a successful day.
although
i do need to thank those ,
who reminded me
to not look outside of myself , for Love.
Human existance is most fascinating.

[Mountain-Goat]

AC ... thank you for responding with such depth. Lots of things you expressed resonated with me. I understand totally where you are coming from with regards to 'being' thin. I was very thin for 26 yrs ... about 2 yrs ago i regained my 'average' weight for height, and have managed to keep it on, however reading about your past anxieties was like reading my memoirs lol I was always a healthy eater and it bothered me that others would think i was experiencing anorexia.
Most times, just like as you have said, others were not concerned with my skinniness. It was only me thinking they were. Paranoia.
In fact i attended a two day training session based on Eating Disorders as part of my work and I can remember being so conscious of what others in the class thought of me as i did truly look almost as thin as some of the patients in the video we viewed. As it happened, lunch was provided and i 'pigged out' as usual lol ... then i withheld going to the loo afterwards because i thought others would think I was going to 'purge' ... that was several years ago and wouldn't bother me in the slightest now ... i was much less secure in myself at that time.
Only reply if you feel comfortable doing so sound.
I take it this 'pigging out' was a compensating mechanism, and that doing so caused more negative thoughts of self?
Did you pig out more in public than in private?
What has changed in you that you are now secure in yourself?
Desensitized ... not the best choice of word i guess ... I suppose after reflecting on what you have shared, it isn't so much that i don't experience, or indeed try to block that 'sense' of this or that, but rather finding the strength of character to allow all that is "not effective' to flow around me instead of getting sucked into the vortex thanks again for your time and energy
Ah, but if you didn't use that word, I wouldn't have seen all that new information about it.
You expressing that word inspired me to stop and have a jolly good look at it. It was the correct word to use.

I like this often used analogy regarding being affected by externals. These externals is also one's own emotions and thoughts.
To live from one's center is like being the eye of a cyclone.
All around is turmoil, but in the eye all is calm and silent.

As an introverted type, I would tend to go inside instead of expressing myself outwardly.
I assume introverts find it easier to find their calm center than an extroverted person.
Back in the hell days, going inside was for protection, so I classified being introverted as a weakness.
It wasn't until embarking on the psychology and eastern paths did I see being introverted as a positive quality.
Can't sort out one's issues if one doesn't go inside and have a look.
It is said, change your inner world and your outer world changes.
Your perception and responses to situations changes, not the circumstances.

The marriage was over, my two kids were now living with me. Life was starting to go up. I had just started reading psychology books.
Just started to clean up the inner mess. I ran into the back of another car.
I had no insurance, I was single parenting, money was tight, basically no damage to my car but I figured $2000 - 3000 for repairs of the other.
Ended up being $4000 and it was one of the most joyful experiences of that particular season of my life.

The mother and dawta of the car I smashed into most likely thought I was off my face.
I behaved in this situation as if I had just caught up with old friends I had not seen in a long time.
I was smiling and laughing and full of excitement about the accident.
I cannot recall why I was like this back then, the only thing I can see is I was beginning to gain understanding of self and life.

If a situation causes you to feel anxious, change the situation.
Leave the environment, ask the person to stop doing what they are doing, etc.
This is not always possible, and I was developing a mindset that if I was allowed to behave anyway I choose,
then so too should all others be allowed to behave anyway they choose.
I wasn't aware I could change myself.
I thought for years, that if something upset me, then that is who I am and nothing can be done about it.

But when I started reading pyschology books, coupled with the innate ability to go deep inside myself, I discovered the thinking patterns that caused me to be upset.
I gained understanding of myself, and of human nature.
Oh, I just need to change this thinking pattern that was developed over the years, and I will no longer be affected by the behaviour of another.
Why does this hurt me? I look..oh that's why, I see the process, the beliefs, the mechanism, how one thing leads and connects to another.
Hey, I created that, so that means I can create a better one. I can change.

One of the most important things I have discovered about myself...change is simple.
The hard part is going in to discover what needs changing.
There's complexity in there and it takes a long time to see the entirety of a given problem.
The change however, by the time you have discovered all that, is simple to impliment.
It's as simple as flicking a switch.

With the eye of the cyclone analogy, one doesn't remain safe and isolated from the turmoil.
One is able to be in any experience but remain calm.
One is in it, but not affected by it.

This bible story just come to mind. Shadrack, Mishack and Abenigo. Don't know if the names are spelt correctly.
They were thrown into a furnace, and when their enemy looked in, there were the three of them, with jesus, all dancing and rejoicing.
I used to read this story and marvel at the wonder of this impossibility.
The mind is fascinated, but there's no way this is possible. It's too amazing to be true.
You know what fire feels like. No way can these dudes be dancing around in this furnace and not even their hair was singed.

Such it is when one can be in all manner of situations without being burnt by them.
It looks impossible from the outside, from one's current perception and experiences,
and I can understand another thinking being unoffendable is impossible.
It's not until you experience it for yourself, via change and healing - transformation...until you experience it, it seems impossible.

But the quantum leap from impossible to possible is only a few steps apart.
The trick is how does one experience something one believes is impossible?
Simple, remove the belief and step into the realm beyond the belief.
I shutup now because there is so much more and I could keep writing till the cows came home.

[Mountain-Goat]

I don’t mean to sound too critical. Really, it’s generally a quite helpful set of principles. I’m just sharing my experiments with them.
You don't sound too critical to me. You actually don't sound critical at all.
You have conducted a test, shared your observations and a conclusion or two.

Principles do two things. Projected outwardly, they help one to understand others. Projected inwardly, they help one understand self.
The road tests offer information of both, self and others. What a person does with this information is up to them.


A most wonderful post of a most successful road test, arive nan.
I admire you for testing these principles and appreciate you sharing your indepth findings and thoughts.
I have been getting into your experience and subsequent thoughts of it for over a week now.
I will need another week as I'm still reading, contemplating and writing my response.

[Mountain-Goat]

Thank you for giving me remembrance of Buddha.

That story changed me also when I first read it.
~nods~ though I did not give you anything. You did that.

[sound]

Most times, just like as you have said, others were not concerned with my skinniness. It was only me thinking they were. Paranoia.
Its interesting isn't it ... what occurred for me was that I worried others would attribute my skinniness to illness, possibly mental as well as physical. Because i was aware of the emotional/psychological problems associated with Anorexia Nervosa it bothered me that others would think I was 'suffering' in that way, when in fact i was quite comfortable in my skin and did not have any issues with body image outside of those that most people experience during their teens. I danced (ballet) for many years so that kept the weight down and, as opposing as it was, I also smoked for many years which was obviously a contributing factor ... my metabolism was extremely rapid. I had all sorts of tests done and nothing come of it ...

Only reply if you feel comfortable doing so sound.
I take it this 'pigging out' was a compensating mechanism, and that doing so caused more negative thoughts of self?
Did you pig out more in public than in private?

I feel totally comfortable to respond AC ... thank you for being interested :smile:

I always 'pig' out both when i am at home and out and about :D ... it was a standing joke among my family ... when i would visit my parents my father would say 'I dont get it ... the fridge is empty and yet she turns around sideways and you think she has gone home' hehe ... I have always loved food ... eating out i was probably inclined to eat more because the food is often different and more interesting than what I can be bothered to cook for myself at home most nights ... I think my paranoia came about due to the particular type of (training) session it was and i was noticeably the thinnest person in the room.

What has changed in you that you are now secure in yourself?

That is a very healthy question lol ... what has changed for me is the realization that what others think doesn't change my truth ... also I come to realize that there is a difference between worrying about something and simply thinking about it ... worrying seems to create some sort of eddy or whirlpool of thoughts whereas simply allowing thoughts to come and go seems to lead us into new territory of understanding. I still find myself worrying a little from time to time, however I identify it for what it is sooner rather than later these days ... :hug3:

[blackfellawhitefella]

.your a beautiful energy AC

sleep calls.

on my next visit , i'll respond.

blessings my friend.

[Mountain-Goat]

Page is saved for further reading.
arive nan, I'm halfway through your post, it's going to take a lot longer than first calculated.
Not only have i had a stack of ofline things to attend to lately, I find myself venturing deeper and deeper as I get into your post.

[Mountain-Goat]

Should finish my reply by the end of the week arive, 'bout 80% done.
Hopefully have time to repy to your last post too sound.

Hey bfwf, me likes the beautiful energy thing.
An apt description of what I feel when I look at all the good stuff that has been manifesting in me.

[blackfellawhitefella]

:smile:

there's some things i wanna say , re your questions ... but i had a big 'personal expression' type of convo with daz the other night , and i'm feeling a bit like theres too much of 'my' sh!te around boring people to death

but i will , for the question actually made me stop in my tracks and contemplate.

blessings to you and yours mate.:cool:

[Mountain-Goat]

arive nan. A most wonderful post of a most successful road test. I admire you for testing these principles and appreciate you sharing your indepth findings and thoughts.
I have been getting into your experience and subsequent thoughts of it for over a week now.

Because I live in an unoffendable state, my position is different to some of the thoughts you have derived from your road test.
It may seem my sole purpose is to defend my position, oppose yours, prove you wrong, me right and all manner of disputive advarsarial things.

Ahh, no. I am simply speaking with confidence and enthusiasm developed from many road tests I have conducted over the years.
My motivation is to joyfully speak of this most wonderous state, to show you it's possible and how,
and encourage you to take the required time to go see for yourself as one road test is just the beginning of the self discovery journey.
Hopefully my writing reflects these reasons

Remember, it has been a 10 year journey over many glorious mountain tops and many dark painful valleys for me to go
from a life severely crippled by offendability to an ever expanding life of joy, empowerment, understanding, wonder and love.

It's coming up to 3 years now since my last major paradigm shift, and I still to this day, from time to time, stop doing what I'm doing,
look around at the world and inside myself and joyfully shake my head and utter, "No freakin' way, how awesome is this!"

Like the Mitsubitshi ad from many years ago said, please consider.
Please consider my point of view simply as a different point of view and not that of an opposing advarsarial one.
Not one position is right and the other is wrong, simply two different views.
Not as a challenge to yours, but simply an enthusiastic, "Hey come look at it from over here if you wanna, the view is breathtaking!"


Well arive. It took a while but 'tis finished. Here is my labor of love for you.

Little did I know what you have shared would evoke so much exploration.
Some may, in light of how forums are, complain and moan of the size of my post, and demand I write smaller ones.
I've never been one to follow social norms so I shall offer no apology for writing a huge post.

However, I do offer an apology for how tiny this post is, the incompleteness of it, it's vaguity(haar, a new word) and omissions...many stones were left unturned.
Comparitively speaking, yes, this is a huge post, but comparitively, to what I have left out, these posts are but the tip of an infinite iceburg.


Reply to arive nan: Part 1 of 6.


I have taken these principles out for a bit of a spin. For the most part it has been brilliant. I’ll start by saying that. A friend of mine made a statement in our online group that hit a nerve with me. It was said to everyone, but it was an insult that applied to a large number of people including me whether he was thinking of me at the time or not. I felt hurt, because he knows it applies to me for one thing and it was unreasonable for another. He was arguing with someone who had a controversial viewpoint and insulting her profusely and included statements that negatively judged everyone who was not speaking up to throw insults at this girl and everyone who doesn’t speak up to throw insults at people like her in general.
: It hit a nerve in you. A wound you already carry that he has bumped into.
Consider the difference in pain if he intentionally and unintentionally bumped into you.

Consider the different thoughts and feelings you would have if someone tripped you and you fell and hurt yourself:
if that person tripped you on purpose, or they simply misjudged their step and tripped you accidently,
or they were in a joyful silly moment and were careless, or they were playing a practical joke, or they tripped and stumbled thus tripping you, or they were deeply worried about some issue they were having and were oblivious to their surroundings...

If your thoughts and feelings of each variation of the same incident is different, then this shows that your response to life is subject to external circumstances.

But it's not the circumstances that dictate what thoughts, feelings and actions you will have.
It's your evaluation of the circumstances that create all those. How you interpret and label each thing.
And if you are the walking wounded, the wounds will influence your evaluations.

: The insult...the friendly dog bites.
From what you have shared of the actual incident, I'd say this guy has a lot of inner conflict, turmoil and pain.
What impact upon his life has another's viewpoint? None.
Why then, the torrent of abuse toward someone, and others? Hurting people hurt others.
The girl with the controversial viewpoint, in offering it, had bumped into your friend's wound(s), his pain erupted and was translated into abuse of others.

: Re: you felt hurt because he knows it applies to you. Not defending him, just hilighting this principle.

When a person is upset, lost control because they are in a tumultuous sea of emotions,
they forget all manner of things and it's not until the storm has subsided that they remember.
For you, being in a calm rational state, you can see what's going on, you know he knows it applies to you,
but he, in an unrational state, can actually lose sight of these things.

Inner pain, like physical pain, can make one close ones eyes to things. Temporary blindness, forgetfullness, etc.
Maybe within the incident he knew/remembered it applied to you and maybe he didn't. The only way to be sure is to ask him.
To bring it to his attention. To discuss it. Otherwise it will remain speculation.

Going into a rage:
The very reason one goes into a rage is because all rationality, respect, politeness, etc is switched off and the volcano that has been bubbling away for most of their life, erupts.
To go into a rage, one has to leave a state of calmness.

Volcanoes vent to release pressure. People with a lot of issues need to vent when the pain accumilates to an unbearable level.
What do you do when you cut your finger? You say, "ouch". You express the pain you feel. You vent.
What purpose does it serve you to say "ouch" when you have cut yourself?
Understand that and you will have more understanding why others yell and scream.

Your friend, the volcano, has a lot of pain to express.
In no way am I saying his method of expressing his pain was beneficial to himself or others, afterall,
his method has now triggered pain in others. I'm just sharing maybe why he was abusive.

And when the volcano erupts, it's just like 'round a bout rage'...no reason to take it personally.
The volcano is erupting because it needs to vent, not because it wants to hurt anyone.
When in a rage, a person becomes somewhat unconscious of their surroundings, who they may hurt.
All they see is they are in pain and they need to vent.

How conscious a person is of their actions and the consequences of their actions is unique to each person.
This is why it's important to ask and find out exactly why a person has done or thought so and so.
In this way, you're not basing your conclusions from past experiences.

Two people can produce the same actions and words, yet have completely different reasons and motivations for doing so.
"Don't judge a book by it's cover", translates into don't judge a person by their actions or words.
Deeper inside this person, beyond the surface abusive insultive behavior lies the real reason they are being rude.

Yes, no reason to take it personally. However, it's the wounds one already has that bypass that reasoning.
The triggering of the hurt, being bumped into, can manifest such strong emotion in the blink of an eye,
that it swamps all rational thought that is saying there is no reason to take it personally.

This 'being disproportionally swamped by a torrent of thought and emotion mechanism', in relation to tiny incidents
is what I have discovered within myself as I explored the workings of the depression I used to be afflicted with.

I have the boxed set of The Lord of the Rings.
I actually watch the making of the movies more than the movies.

In the first movie, there is the scene of the original battle of the humans and elves against the armies of Mordor.
In the wide shots, all of the soldiers of both sides are all computer generated.
The program that makes up these soldiers is called Massive - because the armies are so massive and most importantly,
each soldier has it's own unique fighting characteristics.

In the doco, there's a guy in front of a computer and he's showing one pre rendered soldier in a virtual flat landscape.
This soldier can walk and do most movements a human can do, so by the time it's rendered in the movie, it looks like a real person.
Each soldier is preprogramed to fight an enemy soldier so that when the fight scenes are being developed,
the soldiers fight automatically and the programers can focus on the million other aspects of creating the fight scenes they have to do.

Left alone, the soldier, preprogramed to fight, just stands there, but when an enemy soldier is introduced and the enemy soldier hits him, he hits back.
This then causes the enemy to hit back and this then causes the soldier to again hit back.
This 'you hit me so I will hit you' loop will continue till one of the soldiers is dead.

Human minds are similar to these virtual soldiers.
In the context of verbal fights, if one is hurt by another, the common response is either one hurts back or one hurts themself via self abasement.
The loop is created and perpetuated by being hurt. If one did not feel hurt, one would not respond.
No pain, the loop is broken.
Accept the insult, the intent to hurt, and you will hurt, the wound will be created.
Do not accept the insult, the intent to hurt, and you will not feel hurt, the wound will not be created.

This is why I was so amazed when the street preacher was hurling all that abuse at me.
It had no affect on me whatsoever. And with the loop broken, instead of feeling pain, anger, hatred, you name it...
instead of all those, I simply had compassion on this man for all the pain he was carrying.

Just like the virtual soldier, a person has programs upside their head that control their behavior, responses, feelings, etc.
Wounds are simply programs made up of and or created and perpetuated by, thoughts, beliefs, perceptions of one's experiences.
Change or remove the program and the wound heals.

Once the wound is healed, no amount of insults directed at you will produce any pain in that area again.
And because you no longer are focused on your own pain, you can then focus on the other's pain and offer assistance to help them heal their pain,
and before you can say, "Bob's your uncle", the world is awash with peace, love, unity.
( Haar...I so don't understand how people have come up with these weird time related sayings: "Bob's your uncle" ; "When the cows come home" ; When the fat lady sings" ; etc.)

The mind is full of programs but a person is not the sum of all these programs. The person is the programer of themself.
This is one of the biggies that I realised in 2009 after I found myself cured of depression.
My 40+ years of hellish depression was created and perpetuated by the programs(beliefs, thoughts, etc) I wasn't aware I was choosing to have in my head, with a strong emphasis on "I wasn't aware".

To have and to hold till death do us part.
How easily people divorce themselves from their husbands and wives, but how difficult it seems to divorce oneself from oneself.
To remove and let go of beliefs and thoughts that adversely affect one's quality of life.

By removing and/or changing these programs, I no longer have depression. I am healed of that illness.
Same with being hurt by others. I have removed or changed the programs that created and perpetuated my wounds.
No more wounds = all healed = unoffendability.
And in that state, compassion and understanding for the "abusive" people has clear passage through me where once wounds resided.

[tragblack]

Volcanoes vent to release pressure. People with a lot of issues need to vent when the pain accumilates to an unbearable level. What do you do when you cut your finger? You say, "ouch". You express the pain you feel. You vent. What purpose does it serve you to say "ouch" when you have cut yourself? Understand that and you will have more understanding why others yell and scream.

This is why Wilhelm Reich prescribed frequent masturbation.

Yes, no reason to take it personally. However, it's the wounds one already has that bypass that reasoning. The triggering of the hurt, being bumped into, can manifest such strong emotion in the blink of an eye, that it swamps all rational thought that is saying there is no reason to take it personally.

Your reasoning sounds a bit like The Four Agreements.

( Haar...I so don't understand how people have come up with these weird time related sayings: "Bob's your uncle" ; "When the cows come home" ; When the fat lady sings" ; etc.)

Usually, they have derived from more literal translations over time.

[Mountain-Goat]

Reply to arive nan: Part 2 of 6

If I were someone who had never been hurt by a person who wanted me to hate and insult the people he hates before I would have had a different perspective.
This friend is not someone who would want to be hurtful towards me and he wasn’t very serious about this. But I was quite disturbed.
Some very old wounds were irritated and I started to fear that he is like those others who had hurt me in the past, which is what I always wonder when someone does something that reminds me of them.
I was angry that he would try to shame people, including me, into throwing profane insults at someone because he felt offended by her.
I did speak up to say, without profanity, that they are both being illogical idiots. Then I later told him in private that I don’t share her controversial viewpoint. It took some bravery for me to start that conversation.
I was still afraid that this guy would be doing a complete 180 in his behaviour towards me like others in the past have done. I fretted about it, then consulted my cards.
Then when we chatted he was acting like his normal self towards me.
Then when we chatted he was acting like his normal self towards me.
Your friend, his volcano had done venting and he returned to his normal calm state.
This is the whole theme behind The Hulk.
Mild mannered person becomes angry and turns into a monster who goes on a rampage, goes into a rage.
When the venting is done, person returns to being mild mannered.
The Hulk's problem is he was deeply infected with Gamma rays. In the real world, people are deeply infected with wounds.
I was still afraid that this guy would be doing a complete 180 in his behaviour towards me like others in the past have done. I fretted about it, then consulted my cards.
You have created, from your past experiences, a conditioned response, an automatic response of fear whenever you experience similar events.
You had no knowledge of how he would behave, but you responded as if you did. See the repetative cycle, the loop of fear and pain?
This friend is not someone who would want to be hurtful towards me and he wasn’t very serious about this. But I was quite disturbed.
Some very old wounds were irritated and I started to fear that he is like those others who had hurt me in the past, which is what I always wonder when someone does something that reminds me of them.
Your level of disturbance, your pain, was more than that incident warranted, according to your own evaluation. It was disproportionate.
And as you are already aware, as you have shared, it's because of the wounds you already carry.

I had found within myself that when I used to experience a mildly uncomfortable incident...
at such blistering speeds as to give the impression that it happens instantly,
I was searching my memory banks of my whole 40+ years, finding similar experiences,
accessing the painful feelings and thoughts, fears etc, associated with these past similar experiences,
adding them all up and attaching it to the current mild incident.
Hence the feelings and thoughts I was having for this current mild incident was way out of proportion.

The "making a mountain out of a mole hill" concept.
Such is the power of the mind. Imagine when one has regained control of this power.

As my self awareness grew, I could begin to see these processes taking place instead of not being aware of them.
Ah, that's why my feelings are out of proportion. That makes sense. I see the connections now. I see the logic. I have gained understanding of myself.
I began choosing to not attach the past with the present. I still freely access the past for evaluation purposes, but I have stopped the attachment process.
Coupled with that, I have removed the pain from all past experiences, one by one...healed the wounds.
If I were someone who had never been hurt by a person who wanted me to hate and insult the people he hates before I would have had a different perspective.
You acknowledge past hurts influences your current perception. Hurts of the past = wounds of today.(if one has created and kept the injury)
If only...yes, if only we could go back and not have been hurt.
I so hear ya arive. I spend many many years wishing many things didn't happen.
Of course, a futile exercise, but it's a most wonderful desire, to be pain free. It's just a bit misdirected in it's execution.

It's impossible to go back into the past and change circumstances thus removing the pain from one's present life.
However, one doesn't have to go back into the past to remove one's present pain.
The past was the incident, the past was when you felt the pain, the incident is long gone but you still feel the pain today...why?
Because there is now a wound, and everytime you remember the past incident, whether through reminising
or a present incident triggers the memory, the pain manifests.

The wound has been bumped into, touched, triggered.
This pain is present because the wound is still there.
At this moment, now, the present, this is when and where the wound can be healed.
Going back into the past helps one understand how the wound was created, but the healing is done to the present wound.

If these wounds are not bumped into, they are next to unnoticed. To be precise, there are various levels of awareness of the pain.
Sometimes a person lives with constant but tolerable pain, so much so is the consistency that they don't even classify this pain as pain, they may classify it as a personality trait.

Another may have a coping mechanism that buries the pain so deep that it's not felt at all.
The pain may not be felt, but the wound is there, as potent as the day it was first made and all it needs is a little bump and, ouchies !
There may be an awareness of them, but hey, they aren't producing life affecting pain at the moment so why be concerned about them.

Regardless of the differing levels of awareness of pain, there is still a wound.
The pain is not the problem, the wound is. The pain is simply one's own warning system that alerts oneself that there is a problem that needs fixing.

Pain is one's friend. Granted, it's not an enjoyable friend...and that's a big "granted",
but if it were enjoyable you would not change what needs changing.
If it were enjoyable you would welcome and want more of whatever it is pain was alerting you to.
And there is already a system in place that does that, it's called pleasure.

Without the benefits of pain, one would die earlier than usual, or suffer longer.
If you cut yourself, but felt no pain, you could bleed to death.
If you ate a burrito and you did not feel stomach pains and vomit, you could die of food poisoning.
Inner pain works exactly the same way.
And I speak of my own experiences, for many years I avoided my inner pain like the plague.

Pain: Hey, houston, we have a probl...
You: ARGH, GO AWAY !!!
Pain: No seriously, you need to fix this thing.
You: Not listening, not listening, there's nothing wrong with me, I'm fine.
Pain: Look, see over here, a wound, you just need to...
You: Go away you're upsetting me!
Pain: Hey, I'm just the messenger, trying to alert you to a problem that needs fixing so you can have a better life,
a problem that you have the innate ability to fix...I'll be back..and I'll keep coming back till you fix it.

Pain is one's own life preserving warning system. And the reason why it's painful is to get your undivided attention.
It's in your face for a reason. It's because what it's alerting you to is important, and if not sorted it will produce dire consequences later on in your life.
or perpetuate the dire situation you are already suffering in.

Physical pain is dealt with fairly proactively, inner pain however, is shunned from.
Instead of classifying pain as an enemy, treat it a close and loving friend.
Oh, hello pain, what's that, I have a problem with people who cut me off at round a bouts...quick, to the bat cave!
X amount of time later...Woo, sorted, and I feel more alive, thanks for the headsup, pain.
Just doin' my job AC, just doin' my job.

"Mindfulness refers to keeping one's consciousness alive to the present reality. It is the miracle by which we master and restore ourselves." - Thich Nhat Hanh

Restoration work is to make repairs to that which is damaged, to return it to it's original undamaged state.
If you break a bone, you are now in a damaged state.
The body, an aspect of the self, and a wonderous reflection of the inner self, repairs the damage and restores the bone back to it's undamaged state.
No need to wish the break never happened, go back in time to avoid the incident.

The bone, several weeks of restoration work and it's is as if it was never broken.
Your life is no longer influenced, affected by the broken bone because the bone is completely healed, restored to it's original condition.

Soul restoration is somewhat similar but one needs to be conscious and aware, acknowledging what's damaged(the wounds),
and through understanding, one changes or removes things till the original state is restored.

What is a person's original undamaged state? The person discovers this within the restoration journey.

To master oneself, is to go from being influenced and thus controled/manipulated by externals,
to a state of being in total self control where one consciously chooses one's thoughts, feelings and actions independently of externals.

Externals being situations and other people, and to a deeper degree, one's own thoughts and feelings distorted by wounds.
Healing one's wounds is part of this self mastery.
I was angry that he would try to shame people, including me, into throwing profane insults at someone because he felt offended by her.
I did speak up to say, without profanity, that they are both being illogical idiots. Then I later told him in private that I don’t share her controversial viewpoint. It took some bravery for me to start that conversation.
I understand your reaction arive, but look at what you have said about him, "he felt offended by her."
If you are angry because he has offended you, equally, shouldn't you be angry with her for offending him?
What if you were the type of person who could be insultive toward others...in your anger,
could you not also insult back because you were offended?
You can see the "you hit me so I will hit you" loop.

Why were you offended? You state one reason is because of your wounds being bumped into by his words.
Isn't it the same for him, his wounds were bumped into from what she said.
If he had no wounds, he would not have lashed out at her because you did say that if you had no wounds
your perception of the whole incident would have been different.

In this light, leave these type of thoughts for a moment, "who started all this?", "who's to blame?", "who's the baddie?", "who's at fault"
and look at it from this point of view...
Who has wounds that need healing? Everyone.
Oh, that's why people are nasty, they're in pain, just like me, but they express it outwardly far more than I would, it's expressed differently.
If you did not have your wounds, and anger did not manifest, can you imagine what different thoughts and actions you would have/take?

We are all struggling in the same quagmire trying to get free, and sometimes people step on each other to try to free themselves, some more than others.
One planet, one people, all screaming out in various ways, "Help, how do I get out of this hell I am in?!"

I admire the courage you have to confront your fears and go beyond your safe zone arive.
It's one of the vital attributes one needs to self heal because in order to heal one's wounds,
one needs to constantly leave one's safe zone and go into the dark painful areas of one's psyche.
I perceive from what you have shared in your post, that you harbour a decent amount of fear of these types of situations and you have suffered much pain from them.
So I say again, I admire your willingness to confront these areas, as facing a fear is one of the biggies in life.

I have two fav experiences of facing fear.

Fear incident 1:

1997ish. I was in the middle of my 7year grieving process of my wife leaving.
Just began reading psych books. I was still in a lot of pain and turmoil but was making headway.
One day I come home from work, my estranged wife had parked her car in my driveway, I was incensed by her familiarity with me considering she now has a boyfriend.
Add to this, the boyfriend was under the bonnet of her car, trying to start it.
Not a pleasant sight to come home to after a long day at work.

I get out of the car, my then wife acts as if this scenario is quite normal and there is no reason for me to be emotional about it,
after all she's happy she left me and has a boyfriend, so I should be happy too.

As I walk toward the front door, taking some of my work stuff inside, I notice her boyfriend has a friend with him...the human aircraft carrier.
This guy is ginormous, and the look on his face shows he knows how big he is and enjoys the power he has and is looking for any opportunity to express this power.

I make a few trips back and forth to the car, containing my emotions, not because of the presence of the aircraft carrier, but as an introvert, it's the natural way I process.
My wife is all smiles and wants to chat like we are still happily married, I mildly lash out in an inexperienced attempt to convey to her how insensitive and idiotic her happy behavior is toward me considering the situation of our broken relationship.

Then, the sun disappeared. The aircraft carrier, who was one second in my driveway, was now standing on the road next to my car, inches from my face.
I enjoy shade on a hot day just as much as anyone, but I was not enjoying the reason why I found myself in shade at this particular time.

This guy, I thought was big when I saw him over at the other car, but standing right in front of me, the sun totally blocked out...oh my!
What did he do next? He introduced himself and put out his hand for me to shake.
Uh oh...brain failing to comprehend the situation...does not compute...why does he want to introduce himself after I lashed out at my wife?

Apparently he likes to meet the person he's going to kill, some sort of politeness or moral code human aircraft carriers have...who can say.
Anyways...he's pleasant enough, but after the intro, then he begins his warm up procedure before unleashing his guns.
Guns being those massive tree size things hanging loosely on either side of his body, the ones with sledgehammers attached to the ends.

He started defending my wife because of my outburst...he didn't see her as my wife, he saw her as his best friend's girlfriend, that's why he defended her.
So, he begins his verbal provocation, as apparently, another code of conduct of human aircraft carriers is, he will only kill a guy who threatens him.
At the moment he's only in defense mode, he can't go into attack mode unless he himself is being attacked.

I did not know this at the time. I only figured out all this stuff much later...while washing my underpants.
Was I in fear? ~gulp~ Oh yeah, immense fear as soon as the sun disappeared. I was packin' it non stop.
I had lived with many fears for most of my life, physical violence was one of the big ones.

So, I'm ignoring his provocations for various functional and dysfunctional reasons.
Each time I come back outside to collect more stuff from my car, he ups his intensity which, in turn, increases my fear.
He now is beginning to physically stand in my path from car to house, he so wants me to give him the go ahead to kill me.

I'm inside, my heart is pounding, I think...if I stay inside, I'm safe, I don't need to collect my stuff, I can do that later after they have fixed the wife's car and they have left.
But then I also notice the thoughts of...if I stay inside I am running away like I always have, I will be adding to the cowardice that I do not like of myself.
(I have never had any desire to be violent toward another, but in doing so I developed a mindset that I wasn't allowed to defend myself, hence the tumor of cowardice)

Yes, I won't get hurt, but how much inner damage is cowardice doing to me?
This was the first time I was totally conscious of deciding to face a fear.
The feelings of fear was so intense that it was physically hurting me, but deeper in I could see the empowerment, joy and freedom that awaited me if I chose to be brave and face this fear.

I went back outside, and I continued to remain outside till all my work had been done and I was satisfied I had faced my fear enough to break it.
That was a most remarkable day. Absolutely, one of the scariest of my life, but also one of the most enriching.

Fear incident 2:

2008. I'm at the psych ward. A couple of days after my suicide attempt.
I'm still in a somewhat dazed and shocked state, wondering how I came to be in the psych ward.
I was conscious of the decision to admit myself in as a patient, but I was unclear as to the steps that occured for me to actually be here.

I couldn't see the logical steps of events, decisions and thoughts that led me to being here. I could only see some of them, thus things didn't add up.
So, for those few days, I calmly explored inside, looking for these connections, the missing links.
Just like the brilliant Talking Heads song, "This is not by beautiful wife? This is not my beautiful house? How did I get here?"

And then I saw it and began laughing at how powerful yet simple this thing was that lead me to the wonderful experience I was beginning to have at the psych ward.
A light bulb moment, a revelation, a realisation. I verbalised it in my mind.

"The only way to overcome the fear of asking for help, is to ask for help."

I looked at it and verbalised it again, and looked at it again...yep, the logic is sound.
Not only was the logic sound, but the understanding of how to remove all fear from my life was shining brightly before me,
and the key to removing that vast complicated and painful mess was one...one uncomplicated process.

I tip my hat at you arive, for being brave.

In regards to people behaving illogically:
For many years, especially during my late pre teen and teen years, most of reality did not make sense to me.
I spent a good deal of my life trying to figure out if everyone else was insane or I was.
Made all the more difficult as you can see by me thinking I might be the one that was insane. How can an insane person work anything out.

Why did he do this to me, why did she say that to me, what were the guys on the Enola Gay thinking during their mission, why do I feel so ill around pretty girls, why does mum answer my enquiries with, "Because a bee isn't a wasp!"?
What is this mental asylum I find myself in? If I am in a mental asylum, this means I am insane, or I'm visiting, or I work here, I just don't know...I can't figure it out.

Many many moons later I have come up with these set of rules regarding mysteries, unknowns, weird stuff, things that don't make sense, illogical things.

1: Everything has a logic process to it. No exceptions.
No matter how illogical something appears, look into it and you will see the logical process, the mechanisms that drives it.

2: If I can't see the logic, it's not because there is no underlying logic to it, it's because I cannot see the logic.

3: I cannot see the logic for these reasons.
It is either hidden from my sight or, my current level of sight is not capable of seeing what is directly infront of me.

On my journey so far, it has always been my level of sight that is the reason why I could not see the logic of a thing.
My current state of unoffendability is attributed to the increase of my sight.

This type of sight is generally referred to as Insight - in-sight, the ability to see in, in to a thing, see beyond the surface.
A light bulb moment, a revelation, a realisation, to me, is simply when one can see the logic of a thing.
Oh, now I see, now I understand. This happens because of this connecting to that and it produces XYZ.
This understanding, this comprehension, is this inner sight, this Insight.
Now I see why I get upset at round a bouts, now I see why pretty girls make my heart go boom boom.

Enlightenment, this thing that has been put, by many, way too high on a pedestal, so high that only a few can reach it,
this Enlightenment is merely a continuous accumilation of light bulb moments.
The more light bulbs, the more illumination, the more one is en-lightened.
Enlightenment is simply illuminating more of self, becoming more self aware.
And you become more self aware by going inside and having a look.
Anyone can be enlightened, Enlightenment however...I have no idea what this lofty thing is that others speak of.

Am I unoffendable because I have obtained Enlightenment through some mystical spiritual practice? No.
I am unoffendable because I have spent years exploring the depths of my being, those dark painful no go zones,
gaining understanding of the mechanisms that produced specific feelings, thoughts and behaviors,
realising I had created them and thus realising I can change them.

Healing is manifested through change. Change - to go from one state to another. In order to heal, one has to change something.

The very act of me going into myself brings light to those dark areas.
This act of illumination produces the condition to see more, which produces understanding, which then enables me to heal that which is wounded,
enables me to change the process/mechanisms that are the foundation/source of my wound, my pain, my imbalance, my dysfunction, my disease, my insanity, my illogical behavior.

"Mindfulness refers to keeping one's consciousness alive to the present reality. It is the miracle by which we master and restore ourselves." - Thich Nhat Hanh

[Mountain-Goat]

Reply to arive nan: Part 3 of 6.

I still felt bothered by the whole thing. We became friends because I thought he accepted me the way I am.
Now the way I am is not okay because I don’t like to swear at people he doesn’t like and verbally attack them?
I was trying to figure out how seriously to take that and feeling confused and hurt.
So I tried to apply some of these principles to the situation. Hurting people hurt others.
This girl’s own insults weren’t the problem. It was the controversy involving a sensitive topic and her willful ignorance of how her viewpoint is disrespectful towards a large number of grieving people. I won’t go into detail.
My friend doesn’t know how personally I take it when someone in any way sounds like they are trying to get me to become a weapon for them.
He just knows he wanted more people to join him. He’s not fully aware of what he’s doing or why it is a problem. I could feel a bit less angry and hurt when focusing on that.
I still felt bothered by the whole thing. We became friends because I thought he accepted me the way I am.
Now the way I am is not okay because I don’t like to swear at people he doesn’t like and verbally attack them?
And what is your answer to your question arive?
I was trying to figure out how seriously to take that and feeling confused and hurt.
So I tried to apply some of these principles to the situation. Hurting people hurt others.
I am a but unclear as to what you are expressing here.

Are you saying you were trying to figure out how seriously to take it and also how much you were going to feel confused and hurt or,
are you saying, within your confusion and hurt, you were trying to figure out how serious to take it?
I'm leaning toward the latter but I'm not quite sure, hence the enquiry.

All principles do is give one a path to explore. You may find the answer on that path and you may not.
Principles aren't the answer, they are the means to which an answer is found. Principles are tools for exploring.
Applying one or several principles, produces information. This information may be the answer you seek, or it may be another path to explore ie:
you discover another aspect of the problem, which, if you are still in explore mode, will produce another question, another path.

What a person does with information is up to them. What a person chooses to label each bit of info as, determines the future paths they will take.
Principles, being a part of life, are all interconnected. I doubt there is one path or one bit of info that answers all questions.
Step back and you would see that all these paths connect with each other to make one whole.

Life...it's the ultimate Cluedo. And the answer for each inner problem I've had has been, it was me, with my mind, in my life.

Sometimes many questions need answering, via long explorative journeys on many paths till the source is found.
And until the source is found and dealt with, the problem will continue.
It took me 7 years to find the source of my depression, and upon finding the source, thus finally seeing the whole mechanism of depression,
I was able to turn that machine off, dismantle it and throw the whole thing out 'cus it was taking up valuable space in my head.
This girl’s own insults weren’t the problem. It was the controversy involving a sensitive topic and her willful ignorance of how her viewpoint is disrespectful towards a large number of grieving people. I won’t go into detail.
:If you are saying the girl's insults weren't the cause of other's being hurt, what is the cause of you being hurt by your friend's insult?

: Ah, why is a topic classified as sensitive? People can be sensitive - the ability to sense; but not a topic.
So, is a topic classified/labeled as sensitive because people are sensitive about it?
I think so, because if no one was sensitive about it, it would not be classified/labeled as a sensitive topic.
The spotlight comes back on the person, not the circumstance/incident/topic.
If people were not offended by another's viewpoint, there would be no controversy.

Again, I am not condoning her behavior, especially since I was not there to see the whole thing.
This topic is about being unoffendable and questioning/enquiring/exploring why another's viewpoint creates pain in oneself is part of that self discovery journey.
If she were here, I would ask her questions too.

I will look at the incident two ways: 1: she was aware she was being disrespectful, and 2: she was not aware she was being disrespectful.

:she was not aware:

My x wife's son, with whom I am good friends with, he's as crazy as a fruit bat, but underneath is this remarkable young man.
Imbued with insight and intelligence way beyond his years. Look out planet earth when he finds the way out of his quagmire. His craziness is Asperger's, or so the experts label it.

Just like Sheldon from the very funny Big Bang Theory, this boy will speak whatever is on his mind and has no understanding of how it will affect others.
If you're wearing a shirt that he thinks is ugly, he will tell you. He's not trying to be rude, he's simply stating what he sees.
To him, "Your shirt is ugly" is the same as stating, "Your shirt is blue."
If you become upset, he will stand there scratching his head wondering why.
It is beyond his comprehension to link the two things together.

That's an extreme example of not being aware, though at a lower level, it's possible that the girl, via upbringing, culture, perception, beliefs, etc, does not see her statements as disrespectful. She's simply stating an opinion.
After seeing how upset people are, she may think or say, "Why are you getting so worked up about it?"
Of course, if someone explains to her how it can be received as being disrespectful, and she continues to speak the same way, well that's a whole bunch of other paths to explore.

You said she was willfully ignorant that her remarks were disrespectful.
Ignorant - lacking information or knowledge.
If she is ignorant that her remarks are disrespectful, then that's the same as being blind and bumping into others. She doesn't know.

But you said, "willfully". I can't see that it's possible to willfully not know something.
If you know something, then you know it. If you don't know something, then you don't know it.
But to choose to not know something you do know...

Ah...if you said she was willfully ignoring she was being disrespectful, then that's different.
Ignore - refuse to acknowledge.
She is choosing to not acknowledge she is being disrespectful, which usually means the intent is to upset others.

Anyways...in this scenario, her intent is not to be disrespectful. She is simply offering her opinion.
She has no ill intent toward others.
So...in this scenario, if a person becomes upset, they alone are the creators of their feelings.
They have chosen to become upset through evaluation of either or both, the reason she is offering her opinion and the information presented.

So, has she made anyone upset, or has each person chosen to be upset by how they perceive the experience?
My current perception is each person chooses how they are going to feel.

Yes, externals have a part to play because we live in an interactive environment.
Externals influence our behavior, but the externals can only offer information.
A person chooses to be influenced by externals.
A person may intend to inflict hurt in another, but there is no pain unless the person, the receiver, chooses to be hurt by being in-fluenced by it.

Two people are looking at a picture. One likes it , the other does not.
The picture, the external, is not influencing each person to like or dislike. There is no intent coming from the picture.
Each person is evaluating the external and choosing to like or dislike.
If you like something, those thoughts will produce pleasant feelings. If you dislike something, those thoughts will produce unpleasant feelings.
All thoughts and feelings are self created via the interaction with an event, looking at a picture.

Two people go to a comedy club, one laughs at the comedian's routine, the other does not.
Each person is evaluating the external and choosing to like or dislike.
This time, the external(the comedian)has intent to make others laugh. The comedian is trying to influence you to laugh.
He cannot influence, he can only try to, intend to. He can only offer, give...not force it into you, not inflict.

But one person is still not laughing. The comedian's intent, his power to influence, has no affect on the non laughing person.
Each person, once again, is evaluating the external and choosing to like or dislike, laugh or not laugh.
The comedian has not made you laugh, you have chosen to laugh according to your evaluation of the experience.
You have allowed yourself to be influenced. You have allowed something in, you have been in-fluenced.
You have accepted, taken in, agreed with, received.

So, has she made anyone upset, or has each person chosen to be upset by how they perceive the experience?
Sort out one's own self created issue of being offended, heal that, then go back and experience her and one will see her differently.
Remove the wounds that cloud one's perception and one will see the world differently.

Experience a rude person without the perception they are rude and what will one percieve? Logic states one will not see a rude person.
What will one see? A person in pain, who expresses that pain by trying to inflict pain onto others.
They are trying to remove the pain from inside themself by outward projection. But pain is not the source, the wound is.
Why is the person classified as rude? Because one feels hurt.
Can you see the loop?
　
: she was aware:

In this scenario, she was fully aware that her motive was to hurt others. Her intent was to inflict hurt, to be controversial, stir people up.
Intent - An anticipated outcome that is intended or that guides your planned actions.
She spoke in a particular way, anticipating others would become upset.
Her desire was to upset others, so she spoke in a particular way.

In the context of physical assaults, if a person intends to punch you in the face, if you do not defend or get out of the way, you will be hit in the face.
If you do nothing about thier intent, you will be hit.
A person enforces their intention(plan/desire) with action, engaging some force/energy to the intent.
In relation to the 'giving and receiving principle', the choice to receive or not is made void.
If a person is giving you a punch and you do nothing about it, you will automatically receive a punch.

However, in the context of verbal assaults(eg:insults), the realm of language, of words...it's a realm of information transference/emission, not kinetic energy.
Yes there is some other form of energy emitted with thoughts and words, as shown by Dr. Emotos work with water, but I want to leave that out just for a sec.

All intent can do is empower the insulter to carry out their intention, their plan, their desire, which is to emit words with a desired, not guaranteed, desired outcome of inflicting pain.
That's all intent can do in the context of verbal asaults, throw words at you.

In this information realm, the receiving part of the 'giving and receiving principle' can now come into play.
The intent(desired outcome) of the insulter cannot inflict any pain in you...unless you choose to receive it.
They can hurl a truckload of insults(words) at you, but if you do not receive them, they have no affect on you.
Then why do you receive them and become hurt by them?
Well, that's the million dollar question that can only be answered by doing some deep soul searching.

In regards to thought/emotional energy attached to words.
If an insulter hates you, that hate will be attached to the words and you will feel that hate.
I think this has a part to play in why one is hurt by another's words.
They are still two separate things though because I can affectionately say, "You're an idiot", because I like the silly thing you just said,
and I can angrily say, "You're an idiot", because you bent my Spongebob Squarepants paper bin.

The intent can be seen as the thought/emotional energy attached to words, it's the motive, the driving force/energy that propels words toward another.
Still, the same principle can also be applied to the emotional/thought energy attached to and/or enforcing the words...don't receive it and it won't affect you.

Consider this. The insulter is full of hate, and they emit this hate.
That's their hate, they are the one that is burdened with it. They are the one that is suffering under the heavy yoke of hate, not you.
Which is more beneficial to all, receiving it and being offended by their hate, or not accepting it, and upon seeing the source of all their hate, helping them to remove their burden?

But, before you go off to heal the world, heal thyself first.

Many moons ago, during the christian season of my journey, I read a book, can't recall name, author or topic.
In it was a story of a missionary who went to africa or somewheres, and there was an infectious disease epidemic in a village.
This disease always resulted in painful death within a few days and there was no cure. The best he could do was tend to them and make their last days as comfortable and painless as possible.
A mother teresa type person and scenario, and this particular missionary, his beliefs did not include supernatural healing.

The doctors came one day and were shocked that he was living amongst these infected villagers, but were more astounded upon learning that he had been in close contact with the villagers for weeks.
He should have died a long time ago. They conducted some tests and found, using a microscope, that the disease instantly dies upon contact with his blood.
He was impervious to the disease, which enabled him to help others, to the best of his abilities that his beliefs allowed.

You can't help others if you end up being adversely affected by the ones you are trying to help.
Heal yourself and then you will have the understanding and unrestricted ability to help others.

"What is going on inside him, that he chooses to insult me?", is a damn fine question and important to find an answer to.
"What is going on inside me, that I feel insulted?", is a far more important question to find an answer to.
The second question does not diminish the importance of the first, it's just the second question is more important.

In order to be able to get close enough to the other to find an answer to the first question, the second question must be answered first.
How can you fight the good fight against rudeness if you can be wounded by rudeness?
How can you help remove rudeness from a person's character if you can't get near rudeness?
How can you get close to another if you are repelled by them?
How can you love another when you are angry with them?
How can you love immensely when your heart is wounded?
Heal your soul and you will be able to love the unlovable, because that's what the unlovable need.
This is what the world needs. To heal the world, start with self.

"I searched endlessly for someone wonderful who would step out of the darkness and change my life. It never crossed my mind that that person could be me." - Anna Quindlen

" 'Be the change you want to see in the world.' That is the motto that fills our hearts.
We know it is the only way real transformation takes place. We know that quietly and humbly we have the power of all the oceans combined.
Our work is slow and meticulous. Like the formation of mountains. It is not even visible at first glance
And yet with it entire tectonic plates shall be moved in the centuries to come.
Love is the new religion of the 21st century. You don't have to be a highly educated person, or have any exceptional knowledge to understand it.
It comes from the intelligence of the heart, embedded in the timeless evolutionary pulse of all human beings.
Be the change you want to see in the world. Nobody else can do it for you." - Brian Piergrossi

"As human beings, our greatness lies not so much in being able to remake the world - that is the myth of the atomic age - but in being able to remake ourselves." - Gandhi
My friend doesn’t know how personally I take it when someone in any way sounds like they are trying to get me to become a weapon for them.
From what you have shared arive, I understand it is difficult for you to share these types of things with him.
And I know all too well how it feels to be in that position. I lived most of my life unable to express myself. Haar, you wouldn't think it considering how easily I share now.

I went through a particular difficult phase where the inability to speak manifested into my physical being and I couldn't move.
In a situation where the inner issues would arise, I would go into statue mode. Literally frozen with fear.
I wasn't aware it was fear at the time. It was just a weird sensation/experience.
It didn't feel like the fear I was so accustomed to, but, upon much exploring, it was fear.

But if he doesn't know of your wounds, he can bump into them unintentionally, and if he develops a pattern, the bumping can increase.
Unless you share you' are hurting, a person may not be aware you are hurting.
Unless you define a boundary or preference, others will unintentionally violate those boundaries or preferences because they do not know of their existence.

The level of openess you have with another is proportional to your trust of that person.
Openess is the ability to receive, and part of openess is, Vulnerability - susceptible to attack.
Is it? Or is vulnerability a state where a person has lost the ability to not receive that which is harmful.
The filter of choosing what to receive and reject has been damaged so all things are received.
Receiving is not the problem, it's what one chooses to receive, to take in, that's the problem.

Back to trust. Wounds affect that level. If one has been hurt before, trust in others diminishes. Fear increases.
The pain of the past(current wounds), affects one's present thoughts, feelings, decision, actions by affecting one's perception of what one experiences in the present.

If you share, that him doing X will create hurt in you, he may avoid doing X or will do X more.
According to your past experiences, most people, after you have shared, had chosen to do X more to you, or you have never shared with any others in the past experiences.
There is no way to truley know if this current person will do X more or less to you until you share the info with him.
But evaluating past experiences shows all/most others did do X more.
But that is not proof that this person will do the same. Fear says he will, so you keep quiet about it.

But if he doesn't know, he may unintentionally do X more, unaware it is causing hurt in you.
You are stuck between a rock and a hard place.
If you say something, he may do X more, if you say nothing, he may do X more(unintentionally)

The questions are then, What is causing you to be stuck? How to get out of this position?
Heal the wounds that are associated with your past experiences.
This way, any new action from the current person, intentional or not, will not hurt you.
You are no longer stuck. The loop is broken, you are free.
This freedom doesn't stop a person doing X to you. It stops you feeling hurt when they do X.
You are then free to share and ask they stop doing X because there is no more fear of being hurt, and you are free to not feel hurt if they choose to continue doing X.
He just knows he wanted more people to join him. He’s not fully aware of what he’s doing or why it is a problem. I could feel a bit less angry and hurt when focusing on that.
But does he know why he wanted more people to join him?
I reason that if he knew that, he would not want others to join him because he would not be insultive in the first place. He would not be hurt by her words.
Understanding why a person does something has produced less hurt and anger in you.
Understanding the other is part of the process. You have solved part of the problem.
The other part is why you are choosing to feel hurt. The other part is understanding yourself.

[tragblack]

Physical pain is dealt with fairly proactively, inner pain however, is shunned from.

I work in reverse!

[Mountain-Goat]

Reply to arive nan: Part 4 of 6.

Then I tried to deal with my own ancient wounds. I couldn’t get very far with that except to spend some time thinking about the function they serve.
I want to never again get close enough to the type of person who would inflict wounds like this on anyone. They have a supernatural quality in mind, like Harry Potter’s scar that throbs with pain when He Who Shall Not be Named is near. My friends actually did avoid saying the name of one of these guys. We’d say You Know Who instead or something. The name was censored on one of their forums. His personality is very much like Voldemort’s, as that character was modeled after the same personality disorder.
I want these wounds healed, and my conscious efforts have gone towards this, but part of me is afraid that if they are gone it will be easier for the dark lords of the world to get near me and just inflict me with a new wound.
That’s when I wonder if I have to heal this first or if I can become unhurtable first. Thinking about these things could bring me closer to the answer, but I still don’t know.
Then I tried to deal with my own ancient wounds. I couldn’t get very far with that except to spend some time thinking about the function they serve.
I am very interested to know what you have discovered on your journey into understanding your wounds.
Please share if you feel comfortable to do so.

Interesting you describe them as ancient. Consider the amount of time and effort archeologists undertake when exploring ancient things.
The precision, the delicacy, discovering tiny pieces and spending a long time to put together the puzzle, patience, endurance, digging for days with no pieces uncovered, etc.
Some problems, when explored, researched, theorised and experiemented with, can be solved in minutes, some, take years.

The bottom line is always, do you want this problem solved? If yes, then the amount of time and effort is irrelivant.

From the day I was aware of the problem or the symptoms of the problem, to the day of being totally healed:
(Some of these times are long because although I had awareness of a problem, I did nothing about it.
Most times, not doing anything about it was a symptom of the problem I was trying to solve, or it was another problem that was hindering my progress.
Sometimes, it just takes time for the medicine to do it's work.)

Depression - 7 years.
The grieving process of my wife leaving me - 7 years.
Offendability - 10 years.
Low self esteem/no self worth/self hatred/suicidal tendencies - 40 years.
Rejection issues - 6 months.
Allowing others to treat me like a doormat - the time it took me to read the book on the subject.
Profoundly knowing what am I here for - 10 years.
A multitude of fears and insecurities - anywhere from the time it took to read the book on the subject to 1-2 years.
Anxiety - 2 years.
Imbalance - 3 years.
Who am I? - 25 years and counting...

Those are the hilights.

The solving of each problem has always been via an exploration into myself.
Doy ! Of course it is. To solve an inner problem one has to go inside to see what's actually wrong, to see what needs removing or changing.
But what I didn't know till after many of my deep see dives, was that the ability to solve the problem was also inside me.
Yes, information from external sources is helpful, a support, an aid, a guide. Books, people, therapies, practices, principles, ideas, etc.
But the actual healing work is done by oneself. One applies what one has learnt, understood, accepted as true and beneficial to solving the problem.

"It is you who must make the effort. The masters only point the way." - Buddha.

The effort to self heal can be long, arduous, painful and disheartening. But I speak from experience, keep going and you will heal. The impossible is possible.

At the start of the journey, it looks impossible. Then why proceed? Because the part of you that is not wounded, the part that has clear vision, can see it's possible.
Faith, trust in oneself, in one's intuitive self, the part of you that sees clearly of all that there is.
Physical eyes and intellectual eyes can see many things, but they cannot see all.
One's inner eyes however, can see everything, but one has been using one's physical and mental eyes for so long that one is convinced that is all there is.

An illness is a well state that has changed into an unwell state. The well state has been disturbed, is dis-eased, out of balance, there is disunity.
Your whole state, your oneness state has been fragmented. The more fragments, the more it looks impossible.
How easy is a 100 piece puzzle when beginning to solve it compared to a 10 000 piece puzzle.

Every problem has a solution. Look into a problem and you will see the solution.
A problem exists because the thing has some element that is broken, or out of balance, disunity, etc.
Originally, the thing was not broken, it was whole, functioning properly...then something broke. Fix the broken part and the thing is restored to it's original state.

I spent many years believing/perceiving my broken state was my original state.
But the day I went beyond those beliefs and perceptions and ventured off into the unknown, gained understanding, and fixed something...yeah baby !

On my journey, the more I healed, the easier it became to heal the next problem.
Like all new things one learns to do, it's difficult at first but it becomes easier the more one does it.
I gained confidence in my abilities, my understanding, my theories, I gained trust in my inner knowing.

The hard part is exploring and testing when there are no immediate results, no feedback from your efforts, or the result is different from your expectations.
But I have learnt that every bit of information gleaned from every step taken is of value.
Even taking 2 steps back via fear, mistake, defeat, uncertainty, etc, offers vital information.

The healing journey is not a sprint race, it's an endurance race and the slower you go, the more is revealed because the healing work is achieved within the journey, within the explorations.
Like the broken bone that heals within each hour of each day till the healing is complete, inner healing is achieved within each step one takes.
Thinking about the problem is one step of healing, going to the bookstore to find a book is another step of healing, etc.
All the steps add up to the completion of the healing. So unless you take that first step into unchartered waters, and all the other steps required, you will never arrive at your destination.
And it has to be into unchartered waters. It's a logical conclusion that what you already know has not fixed the problem. You have to go into new territory.

Time:
When my wife left me, I looked into the future, all I could see was blackness and pain that went on forever.
How long is this journey going to be, I can see no light at the end of this tunnel.
7 years later, looking back from a position of light and joy, it's as if she left me yesterday.
Ever notice when you go on a physical journey, expecially if it's the first time you have taken this journey, that it seems to take a long time to arrive at the destination, but when you take the return trip, it seems to go much quicker?

So it is with inner journeys. It takes forever to get there, but once there and you look back, there is no time distance between where you were and where you are.
It's in those realisations that time is irrelivant, that empowers you to take more journeys.

It's taken me near half my physical life(if I live to 100) to heal, and while I was healing I was disappointed, upset, complaining, etc that I had to waste my life sorting out all that instead of enjoying life.
Now however, I couldn't think of a better way to have spent my life. I'm healed !
A very successful and productive life. If I were to die today, I would die content that I lived a marvelous, wonderous, beautiful and adventurous life.
I want to never again get close enough to the type of person who would inflict wounds like this on anyone. They have a supernatural quality in mind, like Harry Potter’s scar that throbs with pain when He Who Shall Not be Named is near. My friends actually did avoid saying the name of one of these guys. We’d say You Know Who instead or something. The name was censored on one of their forums. His personality is very much like Voldemort’s, as that character was modeled after the same personality disorder.
I want these wounds healed, and my conscious efforts have gone towards this, but part of me is afraid that if they are gone it will be easier for the dark lords of the world to get near me and just inflict me with a new wound.
I have not watched any HP movies, except for a couple of minutes of the first one, but I figure the concept you speak of is similar to when Froddo's dagger wound pained him greatly whenever black riders were close.
If they would shriek, his pain would increase exponentially.

The only knowledge I have of the supernatural realm, apart from movies, comes from christianity.

Jesus was walking with his disciples somewheres. A naked man runs up and falls before his feet in a "please help me" posture.
This man is known to the villagers. He lives like a wild animal, hangs around the cemetary. Groups of men have tried to restrain him, but he beats them all up.

He's called Legion because he has a legion of demons inside him, hence his strength and inhuman lifestyle.
Legion is a roman army term of that time, it means 3000-6000 soldiers.

What always fascinated me about this story was the fact that 3000+ demons were inside him, yet they had no power to stop him going up to Jesus for help.
The demons spoke and begged Jesus not to cast them out of the man.
He cast them out, the man was free and boy did he jump around with joy.
Why did the demons have no control, no power over this man. There were 3000+ of them in him!
The demons saw Jesus coming from miles away, and they knew he could evict them with a wiggle of his pinkie.
Why did they not simply make the man avoid Jesus.

Answer: Another entity only has as much power over you as you allow it.

My current understanding of vampires is they cannot enter your home unless you invite them in.
Demons cannot invade and take over...you have to recieve them, allow them in, usually you are tricked into doing this, then they come in and take over.
Jesus himself said that he stands at your door(of your heart) and knocks, if you invite him in, he enters, if you do not invite, he leaves.

Fear however, opens a door. It is said, "What you fear will come upon you."

Bullies operate under this principle, whether it's one person or a country against another country.
They have power over you because you fear the consequences if you do not do as they say.
The intent of the bully is to have power over you, not to hurt you.
If the intent of a bully is to hurt, they would simply hurt you.
What they want is to avoid their lack of self control by controling others.
They feel insecure and weak so they compensate by gaining power over others.
They maintain this power by threating pain.
But the bully does not actually increase in power, the bully is still the same weak person
The victim relinquishes their own power, giving the impression that the bully has increased in power.

Behind fear is this.
If a person says they have power over you, and you believe them, they will.
Not because they do have power over you, but because you accept they do, you allow them.
Their power over you is because you gave up your power.

The placebo effect.
Give a person a tablet made out of sugar, tell them it's medicine that will cure their illness.
If they are totally convinced this tablet will do as they say, they will heal.
Such is the power of one's thoughts.

What was this power that the naked man had that was more powerful than 3000+ demons combined?
I'd say the power to choose. Will power.
And with will power, the impossible becomes possible.

When the human aircraft carrier wanted to kill me, what power did I have to go outside and face my fear? I simply chose to.

The power contained with a person is infinite. This power is engaged via choice.
What blocks this power is one's beliefs/wounds/concepts/theories...how one percieves life.

"I have no power against this person because I have created a believe I don't."
This belief is created by my interpretation of my experiences, influenced by my pains, my fears, my self doubts, my insecurities, my low self esteem, etc.

High school was one of the most hellish seasons of my life.
I was psychologically bullied nearly every day. The build up of anxiety as I waited for the bus to arrive was excruciatingly painful.
My silent screams were a continuous, "How do I get out of this hell? What is this madness?"

But boy, did I grow some awesome inner qualities, did I see the real world beyond the pain.
Haar, too bad I did not know I was developing all these powerful things, that I was not aware of these things at the time.
I would not realise these things till many years later. But looking back, that's where it happens.

The very things you are looking for, is in the very things you think it is not in.

Healing, is found in the wound.
Healing is not the wound, it is found in it.
The journey into the wound reveals the process one needs to do in order to heal.

The solution to a problem is found within the problem.
Look into the problem and you will see the solution.

The power to heal a wound, the ability to solve a problem is contained within self.
This is done via understanding.
Understand how the problem is created and you will understand how to create the solution.
Understand how a wound was created and you will understand how to heal it.
That’s when I wonder if I have to heal this first or if I can become unhurtable first. Thinking about these things could bring me closer to the answer, but I still don’t know.
Within the journey toward healing a wound, one gains understanding in how to be unwoundable.
It's not which one comes first. They are inseparable. They are two sides to one coin.
To learn, see, understand how to be unwoundable, shows you how to heal all current wounds.
To learn, see, understand how to heal one wound, shows you how to stop any more wounds forming.
To understand why I was offended(wound, pain), enables me to be unoffendable(woundless, painless)
This enabling is done through conscious choosing to change my perception of myself based on the new understanding of myself, which is gained by self awareness.

"If you want to follow me to freedom, be prepared to swim upstream, against the river of conditioning.
Be prepared to grapple continuously with the fierce flow of negative mental currents.
In time our strokes will become effortless and our sense of purpose irresistible." - Buddha

"We are what we think. All that we are arises with our thoughts. With our thoughts we make our world." - Buddha

Man, I love hangin' with Buddha !

[Mountain-Goat]

Reply to arive nan: Part 5 of 6.

That’s also when I encounter a problem with the message that people choose to be hurt. It is not freeing for me.
I know others find it to be for some reason. But for me it is a roadblock.
I wonder "Why would I choose to be hurt? That’s not what I want. What is wrong with me that I would choose that? And why can’t I just stop then? What’s wrong with me that I can’t just stop?" It is the opposite of progress.
I didn’t get past this thing that is a road block for me until I examined it enough to decide that it is not true in my opinion and I’m better off not believing it.
It’s like saying people choose to fall down when they slip on some ice. Nobody chooses that. They’re not trying to fall down. It happens because they don’t see the ice, or they don’t have enough skill at sliding along without falling, or their shoes don’t have enough traction. It’s not what they are choosing to do. They are trying to stay upright. If they could use a different route with no ice on the path or they were practiced enough to slide along without falling that’s what they would do. But not everyone is able to do that.
That’s also when I encounter a problem with the message that people choose to be hurt. It is not freeing for me.

It's not freeing for anyone arive...choosing to be hurt. That is not self love...that is self hate...that is regarding oneself to be of little or no value.
But, seeing and understanding the beliefs, thought patterns, wounds that cause one to choose to be hurt...that's the first step toward healing.
A problem cannot be solved if one doesn't acknowledge it's existence.
I know others find it to be for some reason. But for me it is a roadblock.

Have you pondered why another finds it freeing and why you do not?
Have you pondered that the concept is neither a roadblock or a stepping stone toward healing,
but that the concept is merely information and it is each person who labels it according to their own reasonings?
Have you pondered why one person sees/accepts it as a step toward freedom and another, a roadblock?
Why have you chosen to label it a roadblock?
If you have chosen to label it a roadblock, is the concept itself the roadblock, or have you created a roadblock out of the concept?
If you have created the roadblock, what is down that path that you do not wish to encounter?
I wonder "Why would I choose to be hurt? That’s not what I want. What is wrong with me that I would choose that? And why can’t I just stop then? What’s wrong with me that I can’t just stop?" It is the opposite of progress.

The questions you have asked are self confronting questions. Being confronted is never enjoyable because the only time one is being confronted is when things are not ok.
A problem/wound is being addressed and that will mainfest pain.
Tending to the problem/wound means you have to be in close proximity to it, touch it, go into it, do things to it, interact with it...it's going to hurt.
A problem needs addressing, something is not right and it needs fixing. But how joyful once the problem is fixed.

You say it's the opposite of progress. I say unanswering a question is the opposite of progress.
If the question is answered, you have gained knowledge/understanding, you have made progress.
If the answer to that question has not solved the problem, progress has still been made because you can now eliminate that as the cause of the problem.
But if the question is never answered, that unknown could very well be the cause of the problem, or be the missing link that leads to the solution.

You have ancient wounds. You know, or at least you consider they do, these wounds affect your current perception. You desire to be healed.
Is it possible that these wounds might have something to do with your labeling the concept as a roadblock?
And if it is possible, isn't it in your best interests to seek answers to the uncomfortable questions?

To self heal is to go beyond the inbuilt self preservation program of 'run toward pleasure, run from pain.'
It's the same as facing a fear. In order to remove fear, one must face it.
To heal a wound, one must face the pain that is emanating from the wound, go beyond it and go into the wound to see how it works, see what needs fixing.
Repair the wound, thus removing the pain and there will be pleasure. Run from the pain and the pain will persist.

Don't have to run to or from anything ever again. Simply make continuous progress and face whatever comes upon your path.
There's a reason why these things are on your path...you are walking toward them. They don't come to you, you are going toward them.
And you will continue to go toward them till you have fixed it. You want your ancient wounds healed...so you choose to face them till they are.

If you are driving down a road and you come up to a roadblock sign that another has placed there,
you acknowledge they have put this here to tell you there is hazard somewhere further in and it's not safe to go there.
You do not know what the hazard is but you know it has the potential to end your life or do some serious damage to you.
But what life threatening things exist within yourself that would cause you to not venture down paths of self exploration?
I can think of none, but there are two other types of things that cause one to avoid these paths...fear and pain.
I didn’t get past this thing that is a road block for me until I examined it enough to decide that it is not true in my opinion and I’m better off not believing it.
When you say you are better off, do you mean your ancient wounds are more healed, or do you mean you are experiencing less pain by not venturing down that path?
Relief from pain does not necessarily mean the wound/problem is getting better.
If a person has a fear of heights, avoiding heights reduces the fear but it does not solve the problem.
It’s like saying people choose to fall down when they slip on some ice. Nobody chooses that. They’re not trying to fall down. It happens because they don’t see the ice, or they don’t have enough skill at sliding along without falling, or their shoes don’t have enough traction. It’s not what they are choosing to do. They are trying to stay upright. If they could use a different route with no ice on the path or they were practiced enough to slide along without falling that’s what they would do. But not everyone is able to do that.
I agree. The person is not choosing to fall down. That is not their intent.
You are describing and accident. Something unexpected has happened, something other than what they expected to happen.
But, if they are willing to explore the experience and figure out why they fell, what was the cause of their falling,
they can freely change what needs changing, thus reduce the likelyhood of future falls.
The problem and subsequent pain is because they fell. If nothing changes, the problem and pain will continue.

Change and the problem and pain will cease. What needs to change?
: Change the externals, the circumstances. Remove all ice from their path. What if they need to travel over many miles of icey surfaces.
: Restrict one's movements. Do not go outside. Not much of a life, staying inside all winter, every year.

How about changing what they are responsible for.
: Look where they are going. Increase their sight, their awareness.
: Learn the skill of walking on ice.
: Wear grippier shoes.
They may have not chosen to fall, but through a series of choices taken before the ice slipping experience, they have fallen.

In the interactive reality we live in, there are two parts to all experiences.
The person, and the environment the person is in.
The person has to evaluate themself and the environment to decide the best course of action.

It's raining. You can't change the weather, but you can change self and choose to wear a raincoat.
A raincoat is magical. A raincoat turns the impossible into the possible.
Ever been in heavy rain wearing a raincoat.
It's such an amazing feeling to be bombarded by heavy rain but not get wet.
The power of the storm is ineffective against a very thin sheet of plastic.

How did you perform this feat of powerful magic?
By understanding that rain wets you and plastic is waterproof.
There's the giving and receiving principle again.
Rain: Hey, take that human!
You: No thanks.

If it's raining and you go outside without a raincoat, who chose to get wet?
It's the same answer for who chooses to feels hurt when another tries to insult.
Yes, the person does not intentionally choose to be hurt.
It's not a conscious choice. But through a series of thoughts and evaluations of the environment(the insulter) and self, and comparisons with past experiences,
self decides to accept the insult and then the pain is produced.
Poison has no affect on you until to ingest it.
All of this happens without the person being aware these processes have taken place.

It all happens at such a blistering speed that it appears to happen instantly.
You hear the insult, and instantly, the pain is felt.
But as self awareness, mindfullness, insight into the mechanisms of one's psyche increases...all these processes are revealed.
Then comes the, "Oh, now I see, oh wow, it's so simple, I just have to change one thought and the problem is solved."

Why do you take the insult in? I don't know. Only you can know by going inside yourself and having a look.
I have looked within myself and discovered and fixed all of the problems I am currently aware of.
Why am I confident the issue is the person chooses to be hurt?

Two people are being insulted by the same person.
The person is telling each of them they are the ugliest people he has ever seen.
One person is not affected and the other is in tears.
One person is accepting this information, the other is not.
That is the only difference.

The insulter is offering the same information.
Each person is hearing the same information.
Why is one person accepting it and the other not?
Accepting something requires a person to choose to do so.

The principle of giving and receiving is never even pondered when good things are offered.
If someone offers a nice gift, there is acceptance. Giving and receiving is taking place.
In the moment, there is no awareness that one has chosen to receive. The focus is on the giver and the gift, with a slight awareness that giving is being done.

Observe yourself when someone gives you something nice.
Are you aware of any thoughts like, "Look at me, I am receiving", "They are offering, I now choose to receive."
The focus is always on the act of giving, never the act of receiving.
Try eating a hamburger without the ability or act of receiving. In order to receive food, you gotta open your mouth.
The process of receiving is there and operating continuously, one is simply not conscious of it, not aware of it.

Why do you choose to receive the insult? Look inside and you will see because it can be one of many reasons.
I have found out why I received insults, but that doesn't mean it will be the same reason for others.

[Mountain-Goat]

Reply to arive nan: Part 6 of 6. YAY !!!

Being hurt isn’t what people choose. Nobody would choose that if they were aware that not being hurt is an option and able to make use of that option. When someone tries to hurt another, they aren’t just handing that poison arrow over so that the recipient can plunge it into their own chest. They throw those arrows at a speed faster than would allow most people to get out of the way or catch it in mid-air. The ultimate solution is a matrixesque revelation that there is no arrow and no chest for it to plunge into, which is an enlightenment that few are ever able to achieve. Most people don’t even know that reaching this level of enlightenment is an option for them, and even those that do will not get there overnight. In the meantime, we are not deciding to let those arrows penetrate us. They hit us because we haven’t yet become able to fully prevent this. But if we believe that it is a choice anyway, that can complicate things. It can lead to confusing questions that have no answer because their premise is not entirely sound. I know some people benefit from believing it, but self-blame is an issue for me so it doesn’t work well with that. I might not be the only one like this.
Being hurt isn’t what people choose.
Or... they are not aware they are choosing to, as you have stated here...
Nobody would choose that if they were aware that not being hurt is an option and able to make use of that option.
This is the foundation of it all...not being self aware.
Like I said in the my OP, I had receiving set to automatic on. I wasn't aware I had it set to auto on.

I was aware that the other's intention was to inflict pain. I was aware I felt pain when another insulted me.
I concluded the other had the ability/power to inflict pain into me, and reasoned there was something wrong with me that I was affected so easily.
I judged myself as being a wimp, or weak, a sook. I self condemned.
I was not aware I was making these calculations. All I was aware of was the result, the judgement.
I was not aware I was accepting the insult and using it in my calculations. I was not aware I had the ability to reject the insult.

Specifically, it's not that receiving is set to auto on. It's that the filter that allows good in and keeping bad out, was malfunctioning.
This filter is the ability to choose what to allow and what to disallow.
It's the self condemning that causes the filter to malfunction. The negative beliefs one creates of self.
Eg: I do not value myself so of course I will take this insult in, it confirms my low value belief.

It is said by many that a person has most of their core beliefs established by the time they are 7 years old.
You can imagine how inaccurate a belief is that is created by a mind that is only 1-7 years old.
And each person will create unique beliefs related to their level of reasoning, social upbringing, family environment, experiences, what they learn, what others teach them.

ie: "I don't like you" can be translated into the belief of, I am unlikeable, without being aware the belief has been created.
If this belief is never challenged, all future "I don't like you"s reinforces the "I am unlikeable" belief.

The doormat mentality: The belief can be, my value as a person is achieved by helping others.
If I refuse to help others, my value decreases, I am selfish, uncaring.

Before I turned 7, I was already profoundly hating myself and constantly wished I was dead. I was fairly messed up at such an early age.
I do not know if this is normal for that age. My family environment was dysfunctional but not that much to develop such a mess so early.

Not being hurt is an option.

Go repeatedly touch a cactus. You won't. You'll touch it once, then you won't again because you will choose to not be hurt again.
What causes you to not touch the cactus again? You have thought, worked out, concluded...you understand the cause and affect,
the process that results in pain.
You have worked out what to change so you will no longer feel pain.

A friend steals from you all the time. Ask them to stop. If they refuse, stop being friends with them. No more pain.

All external problems are fixed by first internally understanding how the problem is formed then how to fix it.
You choose to change the way you do something. You are changing your thinking, you are choosing to do things differently, which translates into changing your external actions.

Change your inner world and your outer world changes.

You fix an internal problem the same way.
An internal problem is exactly the same as an external problem except, there is nothing to change externally.
There is no need to change anything externally because the mechanism that allows the pain to manifest is not external.
The inner mechanism that allows the pain to manifest is dysfunctionally choosing to accept the insult. One is simply not aware one is doing this.

You choose to touch the cactus, pain results.
You choose to not touch the cactus, pain ceases.
You have all the power you need to accomplish this.

You choose to let the insult touch you, pain results.
You choose to not let the insult touch you, pain ceases.
You have all the power you need to accomplish this.

Again, the question, why am I allowing the insult to touch me?
You have beliefs of self that say you have to accept.
You are not aware of them, but they are there influencing your thinking processes that determine your decisions and affects your perception of reality.

But if you do not accept that this theory is possible, you will not explore to find the answer to, "Why am I allowing insults to touch me?"
But, imagine if this theory is true. Imagine that all you have to do is remove a few beliefs and thinking patterns and like magic,
you are no longer offendable.
Too good to be true! Impossible! Can't be that simple!

The solution of removing some beliefs, changing some thinking patterns...is pure simplicity.
The complicated, difficult, painful part of the healing journey is the exploration to find these beliefs and thinking patterns,
to become aware of them, to see them, to understand how they function, how they affect you.

You have to leave your current beliefs and perceptions, the familiar, the safe, the known, your current truths,
and you have to venture out into unchartered seas, the unknown, the uncertainty, the unfamilar.
You have to leave your current life behind to find this new life you have envisioned and longed for.

It's obvious it's not on the shore where you currently are, you have to travel to new lands.
And leaving a life behind to create a new one in an unknown land is most unsettling.
It takes courage, commitment, perseverance, self trust, etc.
All these things are already inside, they manifest within the journey.
Fear and doubt will make many claims about the journey, but you have already seen one speck of light.
"Hurting people hurt others" reduced your pain. Is that not sign enough to keep exploring.

That is how is was for me. I would heal one tiny wound, resolve one confusion, fix one tiny problem,
and that inspired and empowered me to continue further into the unknown.
When someone tries to hurt another, they aren’t just handing that poison arrow over so that the recipient can plunge it into their own chest. They throw those arrows at a speed faster than would allow most people to get out of the way or catch it in mid-air.
I agree with you that it happens at speeds beyond one's current ability. The solution is to increase one's abilities or slow time down.
These are two sides of the same coin though.

Time is a funny thing. It's not absolute.
A simple observation: When you are happy, time goes quickly, when sad, time goes slow.
Time varies according to one's perception.
The external realm we live in is subject to time. Our inner world however, is timeless.
Internally, one can observe the past, the present and the future all at the same time. There is no distance between them.
This is the realm of the infinite, eternity, timelessness.

Our physical self lives in time, out inner self lives in eternity, timelessness.
Awareness, mindfullness, brings this timelessness into our time reality.

After Morpheus described the superhuman abilities of the Agents and the laws of the Matrix and how humans can have the same ability as the Agents,
Neo asks, "You mean I can dodge bullets?" to which Morpheus uttered, " No, I am saying that when you are ready, you won't have to."

When you can merge your two existences together, you will have all the time in the world to see and understand whatever you are focused on.

When you drive past a thing at 100 mph, you cannot know the thing, all you can see is a blur rushing past your range of vision.
You have an awareness that there is a thing there, but you have no indepth understanding of it.
You can make assumptions, inaccurate conclusions, ideas, beliefs about it, but you will not truely know it.

Stop however, and you will gain understanding of the thing because you have time to observe, explore, experiment, test.
You will know the thing because you have stopped to take x amount of time to know.
Knowing self is the foundation that must be established in order to understand anything else.

I dodge insults because I understand myself and what the insult is.
I do not accept/receive the insult because what he is saying is untrue, vitally importantly, in contrast to what I know of myself,
and I see the insult as an expression of their own pain.
There is nothing to dodge, not because the insult is not real, but because I am not affected by them.
Their intent may be to hurt, it may be an arrow to them, but to me it is not an arrow.
I haven't changed reality. I have changed my perception of it. I have changed myself.

"We are what we think. All that we are arises with our thoughts. With our thoughts we make our world." - Buddha

I have changed my wounded world to a healed world.
The ultimate solution is a matrixesque revelation that there is no arrow and no chest for it to plunge into, which is an enlightenment that few are ever able to achieve.
Kid: Do not try and bend the spoon...that's impossible. Instead, only try to realise the truth.
Neo: What truth?
Kid: There is no spoon.
Neo: There is no spoon?
Kid: Then you will see that it is not the spoon that bends, it is only yourself.
Notice how the kid says, there is no spoon, but then says it's not the spoon that bends?
Why does he contradict himself: there is no spoon but there is a spoon that doesn't bend?
There is an arrow, and their is a chest. You bend(change)yourself so the arrow has no affect on your chest.
You don't change reality, but you change your reality/your world, by changing your perception of it.
I don't feel insulted when another insults me because to me, they are not insulting me.

My perception and his perception are different. But I see both perceptions.
I see his perception that he is producing an insult, but that is his perception, not mine.
My perception is he is expressing his pain and what has his pain got to do with my state of being.? None.

This is not some level of mystical Enlightenment that only a few can achieve.
This is plain and simple, getting your hands dirty, knuckling down and doing the hard yards of learning, experimenting/testing, exploring ideas, evaluating all the information that reality presents.
Taking the time, allocating time to observe and figure a thing out.

I do not have a super intellect. My IQ scores are always around the high 90's, which is average or just below or above average if memory serves me correct.
This tells me that if I can achieve the things I have achieved within my long self discovery journey, anyone can.
Most people don’t even know that reaching this level of enlightenment is an option for them, and even those that do will not get there overnight.
Completely healed of depression - 7 years.
Unoffendable - 10 years.
No, it's not achieved overnight. But it's achievable in a lifetime.
I however, do not call this ability, Enlightenment, because of the misconceptions of the term.
I'm just a guy who decided to have a long and hard look inside to try and figure things out.
I had no expectations of what I was going to achieve. I wasn't even aware of many of my problems when I began the journey.
Eg: I was basically born with depression, but I was not aware of this illness till 7 years ago.
In the meantime, we are not deciding to let those arrows penetrate us. They hit us because we haven’t yet become able to fully prevent this.
Then go inside and gain understanding of why you can't prevent this.
Go look and you may discover there is a dysfunctional thought pattern or belief that allows the arrows to penetrate.
I say "may" because I do not know if others have this inside them. I have discovered I did have dysfunctioning thoughts and beliefs.
I saw them, I gained understanding of the whys, hows and whens of their creation, I removed them, I am healed.

It was not fun looking for them. It was painful to see them. But what joy realising that if I created them, then I have the creative power to remove them, to change.
But if we believe that it is a choice anyway, that can complicate things. It can lead to confusing questions that have no answer because their premise is not entirely sound.
All questions have answers. Some answers take a long time to find.
Becoming more complicated can mean you are discovering more of the problem.
If complexity arises, slow down, tackle one thing at a time. Break the complex down into managable modules of simplicity.
One step at a time and the goal will be reached.
I know some people benefit from believing it, but self-blame is an issue for me so it doesn’t work well with that. I might not be the only one like this.
Ah...blame. Yes arive. The first thing one usually encounters within these explorations is, blame.
A companion of mine for many years.

Blame is not interested in a solution. Blame is an accusation. An expression of the hurt, the shame, guilt, embarrassment, etc.
Blame says, "It's your fault !" But blame stops there. There is no attempt to recify a problem.
Can you see the perpetual loop of suffering and wounds created by self blame?

Dispense with blame. Go beyond it, toward the solution.
Seek understanding of the problem thus understanding of the solution.
Do not seek who or what to blame. Blame is a dead end, unproductive.

Like I said. It was not fun to realise, to be confronted with the knowledge that I was the cause of my suffering.
But beyond the pain was the information that showed me how I was doing this via dysfunctioning thoughts and beliefs. These were my wounds.
Seeing how I was hurting myself still had pain connected to it because it showed how messed up I was.
Again, go beyond that and oh glory..." Oh...I created this mess, so I can uncreate it."
That's when the joy dispersed all the pain.
"What am I waiting for, get to work and fix all those things that I unconsciously created." And I did.
One step at a time, day by day the joy increased, the pain decreased.

My healing of depression was a most painful journey into myself.
It was a complex problem that had vines intertwining all areas of my life and these vines were strangling the very life out of me.
Before I became aware I had this illness, I had, for several years, already embarked on my self discovery journey.

I would discover and fix an issue and obtain more freedom, but every year I would come crashing down.
I would make progress and feel utterly free, then snap, back to where I was, in pain, confusion, disheartened as I struggled to get out of the quagmire.

10 years, and each year, no matter how much progress I made, I found myself still deeply stuck in the quagmire.
Within that timeframe I found out I had depression. So I learnt about it, incorporated this new knowledge into my experiments on myself.
Still I came crashing down each year. ARGH!!!

My dawta had a virus in her puta many years ago.
I'm fairly skilled in building, maintaining and repairing putas.
I spend 2 hours painstakingly cleaning her puta.
I used all the latest programs to eliminate this virus.
I also manually and methodically went through the registry and other system areas to remove anything associated with this virus.
I found numerous things the anti virus programs did not find.
I checked and double checked.

Satisfied, I rebooted the system and lo and behold, the virus was back in all it's insideous glory.
No way ! I just spent hours removing every speck of virus out of the system.
I did the same thing again, but increased my efforts, triple checking all the things I knew and looking in places I had not looked before.

I rebooted again, and once again, the virus was back as if I had not done one thing to it.
This was a mystery to me. How could this thing still be alive when I killed every part of it.
There is nothing left of this virus to rebuild itself. How is it doing it?

Why, after all my efforts am I right back where I started?

The answer was simple. I had not found the source of the virus.
I had found the symptoms, but not the source.
The symptoms looks like the source, but they were not.
The virus was designed in such a clever way that it makes you think you have removed the source.
The real source, the part that reinstalled the virus, was hidden. It hid itself from detection.
But if offered a fake source for me to discover, making me think I had removed the source.

2009, after 7 years of exploring my depression, I saw the source of this illness.
This illness that had destroyed much of my life, that continued to rob me of it.
That kept me in darkness with storm clouds above that went on forever giving the appearance that this will never cease.

The source was one simple belief.

I looked at it and compared the simplicity of this belief with the complexity of the mess I had inside me.
"No way, how can this simple thing create such a complex mess", I reasoned.
I spent 4 hours checking the equations of my life with this new information and lo and behold, the math added up.
This was the source, the real source.

To see the real source of the hell I was in, to see the powersource of the illness, you can imagine what was going through my mind.
I enquired of myself, "You mean, all I have to do is turn this belief off, and depression will no longer exist?"
I checked the math again and again. It was correct.
All those years of exploring, of observing and gaining understanding, insight, has brought me to this defining moment.

"No way, it can't be that simple", I would joyfully exclaim.
"Yes way", I would joyfully reply.

My experiences thus far have revealed that no matter how complex, powerful, overwhelming a problem appears, is, or feels..the source is always simple, the solution is always simple.

I considered this thing for three days.
I had experiences like this before, thinking I had found the source, only to be utterly disappointed to discover it was not the solution.
On the third day, I gingerly turned the belief off, not knowing what was going to happen.
I was cured from that moment. No amazing feelings, flashes of light, seeing god or angels.
Just an acknowledgement of the purpose of the long journey that brought me to this moment,
a knowing I was cured and a profound gratitude and love of the effort it took for me to get to this point.

An illness that they say is incurable. I don't think so !

Here's a clue regarding perception:
If you believe it's incurable, you won't look for a cure.
If you believe something is impossible, you won't try to achieve it.
If you believe you will never be free from whatever binds you, you won't look for the chains that bind you.
If you believe you have no power in your life, you won't use it.

The key that got me started on my cure of depression was this tiny piece of information.
I had chemical imbalance depression and this is what the experts say:
A lack of a certain chemical in my brain creates the over abundance of negative thoughts, which is depression.
There is no cure for this chemical deficiency. They have no idea how any of this works.

If I believed this claim, I would be resigned to always having the illness.
A couple of days after being told this information, I was pondering it and I saw something.
Hang on a mo..their conclusion is wrong.
Chemicals cannot produce a negative thought.
Thoughts are neutral. It is I who label thoughts, positive or negative.
They have it the wrong way around.
Chemicals do not produce my thoughts. My choosing to have the negative thoughts produces the chemical deficiency.

And so the journey began, and 7 years later, my theory was confirmed. Totally healed.
The impossible, curing an incurable illness was made possible simply by changing my perception.

[Mountain-Goat]

:smile:

there's some things i wanna say , re your questions ... but i had a big 'personal expression' type of convo with daz the other night , and i'm feeling a bit like theres too much of 'my' sh!te around boring people to death

but i will , for the question actually made me stop in my tracks and contemplate.

blessings to you and yours mate.:cool:
Spider senses were telling me they might, but did not know how much.
Whenever you're ready bfwf is absolutely fine with me.
If and when you do share, looking forward to hearing it all.

[Mountain-Goat]

Sound. Not forgotten. Will read and reply asap.

[arive nan]

Thank you for the labor of love AC :). I am working on reading through it <3

[Mountain-Goat]

Its interesting isn't it ... what occurred for me was that I worried others would attribute my skinniness to illness, possibly mental as well as physical. Because i was aware of the emotional/psychological problems associated with Anorexia Nervosa it bothered me that others would think I was 'suffering' in that way, when in fact i was quite comfortable in my skin and did not have any issues with body image outside of those that most people experience during their teens. I danced (ballet) for many years so that kept the weight down and, as opposing as it was, I also smoked for many years which was obviously a contributing factor ... my metabolism was extremely rapid. I had all sorts of tests done and nothing come of it ...
I like your "what occured to me...". You had a moment of self realisation, or a realisation of somethng in your life.

I had an incident, in my 20's.
Just began driving off to work. Doing 60klm in the 60 zone.
One of the fun driving games I would play at that time would be to change to the designated speedlimit right at the sign. A game of precision.
I was coming up to an 80 sign. I continued to drive at 60 k, but as soon as I reached the 80 sign, I quickly sped up to 80.
Just as I looked up from the dash, a car was in the process of overtaking me as it finished getting in front of me.

I thought nothing of it, but then the guy gave me the finger.
Huh? Why is this guy givng me the finger? I don't know him, so it's not a friend mucking about. I kept to my side of the road.
Why is he pinged off at me?

Ohh...he must have just begun to overtake at the same time I quickly sped up.
This guy is assuming I sped up on purpose to thwart his desire to get in front.
I wanted the opportunity to face this accusation and clear my name.
I did not want this person to retain the incorrect thought/belief that I was a jerk.
I did not get that opportunity, and so I had to deal with thoughts and feelings that there is a guy out there that thinks I am a jerk.
I knew I wasn't a jerk(in that situation). I did not see he was behind me when I sped up, but I was still worried about what he thought, and I could do nothing about it.

In your situation, or similar situations, there is an opportunity to clear the matter up...discussion can be had.
You: "Do you think I have Anorexia Nervosa?"
You may get anywhere from an open and honest discussion to a beeping sound coming from the other as they back away.
( I must admit, the beeping sound of people backing away is most fun to observe)

But what is most common in my interactions with people thus far, is many people do not go to the stage of communication.
Instead, one assumes and then base their judgements/conclusions/beliefs, thus their perception and responses to life, on that information.
This is fertile soil for paranoia to grow. "What are they thinking of me" is thought, because that's what we humans do.
We think, so we assume others are thinking of us, observing, evaluating, concluding.

But there is something else that humans can do. We can ask what another is thinking.
Instead of assuming all manner of things, we can actually know. Bye bye paranoia.
Understanding why self does not ask, or why self does not answer(avoids the question, or gives un untruthful answer) is vital to creating a healthy inner life.
I feel totally comfortable to respond AC ... thank you for being interested
I always 'pig' out both when i am at home and out and about ... it was a standing joke among my family ... when i would visit my parents my father would say 'I dont get it ... the fridge is empty and yet she turns around sideways and you think she has gone home' hehe ... I have always loved food ... eating out i was probably inclined to eat more because the food is often different and more interesting than what I can be bothered to cook for myself at home most nights ... I think my paranoia came about due to the particular type of (training) session it was and i was noticeably the thinnest person in the room.
I can picture the scene of your father saying that like it's from a feel good light hearted comedy of life and love.
Reading that line again and again still brings a smile to my face. A magical moment.

Re: the situation at the training session.
It reminds me of a concept in the context of a phase of homophobia that was in the world.
Many in the gay community used this, not all of them, but enough to grab my attention.
If a straight guy says anything negative about being gay,
the gay guy would say, "This is proof that deep down you are gay but are repressing it.", or some sort of variation of that.
The old, 'denying something is proof you are guilty' thing.

This dsyfunctional way of thinking was brilliantly portrayed in The Life of Brian.

A crowd was growing in confidence that he was the messiah. He knew he wasn't and shared this info with them.
A don't recall exactly how the scene went, but there was a lengthy exchange of words where Brian would either deny he was the Messiah or give reason why he wasn't.
The crowd, upon each utterance from Brian, simply became more convinced he was the Messiah.

Brian was becoming more and more frustrated at the illogical thinking of the crowd.
He yelled at them in exasperation, "Look, I am not the messiah !"
To which the clincher for the crowd was spoken by a woman, "Only the true Messiah denies his divinity!"

~laughs~ Poor ol' Brian, now lost in the madness of the moment, thinks and says,
"What? Well what kind of chance does that give me(to prove my innocence of the claim)? Alright.. I am the Messiah !"
~laughs~ Python are so insightful... as most comedians are.

I envision you're at the training session and you calmly inform the group that in case anyone was wondering, you are not anorexic, you simply have a much slender body that the average.
To which some would confront you of your denial issues and that they truely care and want to help you.

Maybe this is also a reason why people are closed off from each other and do not openly share.
What is the point of saying anything or discussing an issue when others can't hear you over the sound of their own conclusions of you.
But if open discussion does not happen, there will be false beliefs created, of self and others.
And who is the most important person one can have an open discussion with?
That is a very healthy question lol ... what has changed for me is the realization that what others think doesn't change my truth ... also I come to realize that there is a difference between worrying about something and simply thinking about it ... worrying seems to create some sort of eddy or whirlpool of thoughts whereas simply allowing thoughts to come and go seems to lead us into new territory of understanding. I still find myself worrying a little from time to time, however I identify it for what it is sooner rather than later these days ...
Ourself.
~standing ovation~ Bravo, Sound...bravo !

[sound]

AC you are a legend ... you take so much time with people ... like others have expressed ... i will take time to read, reflect and respond ... thank you kindly :hug3:

[Mountain-Goat]

Thank you for the labor of love AC :). I am working on reading through it <3
You're most welcome arive.
Please note you are under no obligation to respond to all or anything I have written.
Just knowing you have read all of it is satisfaction enough for me.

[Mountain-Goat]

AC you are a legend ... you take so much time with people ... like others have expressed ... i will take time to read, reflect and respond ... thank you kindly :hug3:
Over the course of my life, especially these last 3 years, it has come to my attention that people are extremely valuable and worth my time.
One of the profound wonders and joys of life is to hang out with others.
Why, because people are so beautiful and amazing !

[Mountain-Goat]

~laughs~ Then he shares a story about hangin' out with a dog.
But, fear not, it is relevant to hangin' with people.
I actually forgot to post this last time I was on.



Bobby
Bobby is my mum's dog, whom I affectionately call Little Biscuit Barrel because his body shape is as if he swallowed a barrel.
Both mum's dogs have come from Animal Rescue and both have deep inner wounds.
Maggie has issues as well, but I'll focus on Bobby.

From day one, Bobby would not come near me. If I was in a room, he would not enter it.
If he was in the room and I entered, in a frightened state, he would instantly run away.
If he couldn't get around me, he would cower, and his amount of recoil would be in proportion to my distance from him.

Mum relayed the story of how Bobby's previous owner, a male, would beat him daily.

You know the look of a person eyes when they are crying or have been crying?
This is the constant look in Bobby's eyes. This is what I see when I look into his eyes, profound constant inner crying.

Each day I would speak lovingly to both dogs.
It took a week for Maggie to feel comfortable enough for me to pat her. This allowed Bobby to let me get closer to him.
But the look of terror in his body language and in his eyes as I gently put my hand toward him conveyed to me how deep his wounds are.
I knew this was going to be a long road of recovery for him.
Patience and understanding, adjusting myself to his pace but also daily taking the initiative of building a relationship.

I've been living with my mum for 5 months now and last week was the first time Bobby came up to me for a hello and a pat.
He still gingerly avoids me when we are outside. I suspect outside is where he received most of his beatings.
A month ago, he would run away from me outside, now, he still has some fear if he's having a bad day.
Some days he gingerly avoids me or is wary of me, and some days I see a glimmer of happiness as I bend down to pat him.
I must still maintain a calm and quiet posture around him.

During these 5 months of effort it would be easy to become frustrated at Bobby's attitude toward my expressions of love for him,
especially if I compared his progress against Maggie's.
If I came into mum's room, Bobby would try to bite me.
As Maggie and I got closer, she would enjoy more rough play and again, bobby would try to bite me.
I could give Bobby a nice rub inside the house, yet the very next second, outside, he would avoid me.
All that effort with little reward.

Being unoffendable removes all those unproductive thoughts and feelings and enables me to joyfully, calmly and patiently continue my task of healing.
Bobby is self healing, but I am creating an environment conducive of healing. Such is the power of unoffendability.

My brother, in contrast, simply reacts to Bobby's attitude/behavior.
Bobby avoids all males, so my brother, taking it personally, feels rejected or whatever he's thinking/feeling and concludes Bobby is not worth knowing/liking.
"If Bobby was this instead of that, then I would like him, If Bobby didn't make me mad, I would like him more, he would be a good dog." type thinking.

Just like the profound line from What The Bleep, "If thoughts can do that to water, imagine what our thoughts can do to us."...
If being unoffendable can help heal a dog, imagine what being unoffendable can do for another person's healing.
Then, take that one more step...imagine what being unoffended of oneself will do for one's own healing.

Can you see the connection of being unoffended and unconditionally loving something/someone?

[sound]

I like your "what occurred to me...". You had a moment of self realization, or a realization of something in your life.

True … sometimes realization can occur, however, the solution (to a perceived 'problem') may not always appear on the horizon at the same time. That can mean experiencing a certain level of anxiety until one can let go of old beliefs which don’t align with new understandings. Accompanying dialogue may go something like ...' I know it isn't helping me but i just cant seem to stop myself' ...

I can relate in regards to your speed limit story. I used to experience incredibly high levels of fear around being misunderstood or misinterpreted. I worried about how that caused people to see me in a light which I, myself found to be ‘oppositional’ I suppose, is the word I am looking for. We are unusual creatures aren’t we … I have realized though, through experience, (in relation to myself of course), that often times light will be shed 'through' our thoughts and indeed increase our understandings because of that, without needing to actualize those situations etc. does that make sense AC? Lots of running commentary (of mind) in the process of course … and it is almost as if we ‘live our thoughts’ sometimes in a subconscious effort to self preserve lol that scenario obviously works on the premise of ‘less (actualized)pain, more gain lol that paragraph turned into a rant of sorts didn’t it … you (silently) give folk permission to explore stuff which may, at first, seem significantly insignificant … that is your gift in a sense I reckon Mr AC

In your situation, or similar situations, there is an opportunity to clear the matter up...discussion can be had.
You: "Do you think I have Anorexia Nervosa?"
You may get anywhere from an open and honest discussion to a beeping sound coming from the other as they back away.
(I must admit, the beeping sound of people backing away is most fun to observe)

Most definitely and, in recent times, I have found the confidence to address ‘pending’ issues (non related to the thinness thing) in exactly that manner … I tend to use a little humor to support what it is I am attempting to extrapolate lol

[But] what is most common in my interactions with people thus far, is many people do not go to the stage of communication.
Instead, one assumes and then base their judgments/conclusions/beliefs, thus their perception and responses to life, on that information.
This is fertile soil for paranoia to grow. "What are they thinking of me" is thought, because that's what we humans do.
We think, so we assume others are thinking of us, observing, evaluating, concluding.
But there is something else that humans can do. We can ask what another is thinking.
Instead of assuming all manner of things, we can actually know. Bye bye paranoia.

Yes … and even when an honest answer is not forthcoming, chances are it will encourage self reflection at some point … from both perspectives of course …

I can picture the scene of your father saying that like it's from a feel good light hearted comedy of life and love.
Reading that line again and again still brings a smile to my face. A magical moment.

I find myself smiling too when I think about it many years down the track,however it used to annoy me no end back then … I used to think ‘I don’t make the same old joke about your bloody boisterous and outspoken manner being felt for days after you do actually do go home’ hahaha .. I loved him dearly though ... he was fun and spontaneous and rugged and loved playing the devils advocate ... another thing he drummed into us ... he always used to tell us "Don't think yourself any better, but certainly don't think yourself any worse' :)

Re: the situation at the training session.
It reminds me of a concept in the context of a phase of homophobia that was in the world.
Many in the gay community used this, not all of them, but enough to grab my attention.
If a straight guy says anything negative about being gay,
the gay guy would say, "This is proof that deep down you are gay but are repressing it.", or some sort of variation of that.
The old, 'denying something is proof you are guilty' thing.

Great example … and also that old 'if you defend yourself then you must be guilty' of whatever it is that has been highlighted.

~standing ovation~ Bravo, Sound...bravo !
Hehe … likewise AC accompanied by a thousand thank yous’ :hug3:

[arive nan]

I am still reading through the posts. I’ve had some thoughts about it so far. And since it will be a while before I read through it all I figured I’d post a description of what I see in my mind so far, for those who want to take a look around it. Sorry for all the mess, though. There are lots of things in here that I can’t make heads nor tails of either...

Anyhow, there was a short period time in my life when I was someone who I could like and my own thoughts made sense to me. I was a mess when growing up, but over the years I put myself together the way I wanted. I keep trying to organize my mind enough to get back to that. One problem is that the structure of that organization rested a foundation that included the belief everyone is capable of learning to have more compassion and kindness and therefore more happiness. Then I witnessed some realities that contradicted this belief too much. With that gone, everything that was built upon it fell apart. I’ve been trying to pick up the pieces ever since. Now there are so many different parts of my mind disagreeing with each other about so many things, but they almost all seem to share the opinion that there is not much to like about me.

I was aware that the void left where my belief that there is hope for everyone used to be was a major source of my problems. I revisit this occasionally to try to figure out some solution, but I just come across the same irreconcilable differences between different parts of my mind. What complicates this more than anything is the existence of classical narcissists. Of course, it was a narcissist who wounded me pretty badly, among others. Looking at it objectively, there is currently no solid proof either way that narcissists can get better. Only one person, who has no expert background, claims that some have recovered from the disorder, which is entirely anecdotal. I can find hardly anything written by an actual expert in the field of psychology about this question. Most of the information, even on health web sites, comes from one narcissist with a pretend degree he bought on some web site. There’s really not much reliable information out there. So for now it comes down to what I want to believe and what I am able to believe.

On the one hand, while I had the belief that there is hope for everyone it worked quite well as a base to support a more organized and healthy mind. That should be evidence that there could be truth in it. On the other hand, it wasn’t strong enough to stand up to certain realities that seemed to contradict this belief. It took more energy to keep holding on to it in spite of what I had witnessed. That is evidence that it could be wrong. But without it, everything that I had built upon it fell apart. I can’t build anything on hopelessness, even if it is only partial hopelessness for about 1% of humanity. Things I used to know and understand back then no longer make sense to me. I wrote about them a lot, but now I can’t understand my own writings from that time. So we are back to some evidence that the belief could be right. Still, I have seen and experienced things that make it very difficult to believe that this 1% of the population has any chance of getting past their delusions at all. Hope for 99% is not enough to be able to understand what I used to understand that gave me peace. *looks around my mind...* This place is a disaster.

I remember that I wasn’t of the opinion that people choose to feel hurt when back I was healthier. Looking back at some old writings, I had explored the belief that pain is willingly chosen for a while, but then found that it did not make sense and I was better off without it. This did not mean that people can’t find a way to prevent the reaction of suffering or hurting when certain things happen. But I found that believing that suffering and hurt is willingly chosen brought me further away from the truth instead of closer to it. I treated hurt feelings as something that happens naturally when people do not thoroughly understand what is going on with them or the other people involved. Believing that it is always chosen even when people don’t know what is going on exactly would not make sense would complicate the process of overcoming it for me. So I replaced it with the theory that hurt happens naturally although it can be prevented with the right understanding. This seemed to have been working at the time, and I think it would work again if I could relearn how to understand the stuff that needs to be understood.

However, there is the problem that I still don’t entirely understand the things I used to understand that made people seem less offensive even whey they were trying to offend. Some of the same people who I used to be explaining these things to are currently better at it than I am now, both because they got better and I got worse. I see them being much more calm about something that I feel incensed by and saying that the person is just scared or not right in the head and I find myself wishing I could be that wise. Then I remember that I used to be and I was saying the same sort of things to them years ago. Being aware that people hurt others because they are hurting and concentrating on that awareness was part of that understanding. It has been lying around here in the clutter of my mind somewhere, forgotten and neglected and buried under debris. It helps a bit to excavate that and see what I can still do with it.

[Mountain-Goat]

~smiles~ Thanks Sound and arive.
Posts are saved and I have begun reading and replying.
Always a joy to spend time with others.

Reply to tragblack
Volcanoes vent to release pressure. People with a lot of issues need to vent when the pain accumilates to an unbearable level. What do you do when you cut your finger? You say, "ouch". You express the pain you feel. You vent. What purpose does it serve you to say "ouch" when you have cut yourself? Understand that and you will have more understanding why others yell and scream.
This is why Wilhelm Reich prescribed frequent masturbation.
One could masterbate their brains out but it won't resolve the problem. It only relieves the symptoms of it.
It is helpful to give oneself temporary relieve so one can continue the journey toward finding the source of a problem.
But it's not helpful if that practice is believed to be the solution to the underlying problem.
"Hey, no more frustration/pain, I mustn't have the problem anymore."

Also, another unproductive loop can be formed that way.
To alleviate pain by experiencing pleasure can create a pattern of keeping the original problem as an excuse to experience the pleasure.
"I've had a hard day at work, I need a beer or two."
"I'm so stressed out, I need a smoke(both types) to calm me down."
I don't know the full story of Wilhelm Reich's theories, or the context of what you have quoted of him so this observation may be inaccurate,
but he seems to be prescribing addiction.
Yes, no reason to take it personally. However, it's the wounds one already has that bypass that reasoning. The triggering of the hurt, being bumped into, can manifest such strong emotion in the blink of an eye, that it swamps all rational thought that is saying there is no reason to take it personally.
Your reasoning sounds a bit like The Four Agreements.
I would not be surprised. On my journey I am regularly hearing and reading things that are equal or similar to my thoughts.
I conclude it's because I and the other has tapped into into the same databank of information.
I still burst with joy whenever these types of thought synchronicities occur in my life, just no longer surprised.
A small glimpse of this Oneness concept that underlies the individualism of this physical realm perhaps.
( Haar...I so don't understand how people have come up with these weird time related sayings: "Bob's your uncle" ; "When the cows come home" ; When the fat lady sings" ; etc.)
Usually, they have derived from more literal translations over time.
Some data/examples would be nice tragblack, because when I think of the cows one, all I get is this...

The saying "Till the cows come home" puzzles me somewhat.
So many unanswered questions like...
Why did they leave?
How come no one saw them leave?
How long was it before anyone noticed they were gone?
Who helped them escape, because they didn't open the gates on their own....or did they?
Why didn't someone just follow their tracks and find them?
Did they really leave or did someone move the farm?
If someone did move the farm, why did they leave the cows behind?
Were the cows secretly responsible for moving the farm and that's why there were no tracks to follow.
Why don't the cows want to be found?
Is the farm their real home?
Are the cows stationary objects and the farm is alive and moving all the time around the cows?
Are the cows the "home" and the farm the "cows"?
Why did the farm leave and when will it return?
Physical pain is dealt with fairly proactively, inner pain however, is shunned from.
I work in reverse!
In reverse or equally?
Because if in reverse, are you saying if you cut yourself, you wouldn't do anything about it, you would avoid the problem?

[GentleStrength]

Thank you for posting this AC, I enjoyed it and many of the ideas resonated within me as truth.

To share how I have gotten to a similar place as you, I originally separated other people actions by what I felt their intent to be. If they didn't intend to hurt me but said something that I could take in a way that caused me pain, I decided I would no longer react by becoming hurt. I could then communicate with them that what they said or did could have been interpreted as hurtful but since I wasn't this interaction wasn't a conflict just a sharing.

However, for those that I knew were intentionally trying to cause pain or conflict I did not give them the same free pass. I judged them to be negative and would not necessarily respond in kind but I certainly didn't try and interact with them in a positive way.

Then one day I reached an internal understanding that went something like, "This person is intentionally trying to cause me pain and hurt my feelings".

"So what?"

Even if that is what they are trying to do I realized that I would rather "choose" my response than to "react" to it based upon their intent and the habitual or normal way to respond. If they are choosing to express a negative action I can still choose to both interpret it in a positive way as well as respond to it in a positive manner. I am then expressing myself in a loving way that I would prefer to rather than a negative reaction that could just perpetuate the cycle.

As you were saying about changing your vibration to one that no longer even felt the negative energies being focused upon you I visualize it like this. If I imagine myself as a pure crystalline energy as clear and bright as possible, negative energy and intentions can just pass through me since there is no opaque or cloudiness that would absorb that energy. on the other hand positive energy and light sent my way can be focused, amplified and directed throughout the universe.

Anyways, long winded response basically saying thank you for sharing! :D

Love and Light

[Mountain-Goat]

Thank you for posting this AC, I enjoyed it and many of the ideas resonated within me as truth.

To share how I have gotten to a similar place as you, I originally separated other people actions by what I felt their intent to be. If they didn't intend to hurt me but said something that I could take in a way that caused me pain, I decided I would no longer react by becoming hurt. I could then communicate with them that what they said or did could have been interpreted as hurtful but since I wasn't this interaction wasn't a conflict just a sharing.

However, for those that I knew were intentionally trying to cause pain or conflict I did not give them the same free pass. I judged them to be negative and would not necessarily respond in kind but I certainly didn't try and interact with them in a positive way.

Then one day I reached an internal understanding that went something like, "This person is intentionally trying to cause me pain and hurt my feelings".

"So what?"

Even if that is what they are trying to do I realized that I would rather "choose" my response than to "react" to it based upon their intent and the habitual or normal way to respond. If they are choosing to express a negative action I can still choose to both interpret it in a positive way as well as respond to it in a positive manner. I am then expressing myself in a loving way that I would prefer to rather than a negative reaction that could just perpetuate the cycle.

As you were saying about changing your vibration to one that no longer even felt the negative energies being focused upon you I visualize it like this. If I imagine myself as a pure crystalline energy as clear and bright as possible, negative energy and intentions can just pass through me since there is no opaque or cloudiness that would absorb that energy. on the other hand positive energy and light sent my way can be focused, amplified and directed throughout the universe.

Anyways, long winded response basically saying thank you for sharing! :D

Love and Light

I don't know about calling you're response long winded, GentleStrength, I found it more to be like a refreshing breeze.

I like what you had discovered that you have a will to choose what you shall think, feel and do.

I too have discovered this amazing ability within myself and I found it to be a key element
of removing pain, wounds and regaining freedom by leaving the self created prison I build around myself.
The fredom to choose was always there but I wasn't aware of it. It was buried under much.

Haar, just like how Skynet became self aware on such and such a date...
I became aware of this powerful and liberating ability mid 2009.

My whole life, or the majority of it, was controled by the huge amount of external forces(people and circumstances)
"The whole world is against me !", was my constant lament.

But when I finally saw that I was choosing to let this happen...well...wasn't that a wonderous and joyous time.
"Oh, I am totally free to choose, I just had a mountain of opposing thoughts and beliefs that hide that simple but powerful knowledge."

I went from being a powerless entity to one of immense power.
And as I continue my journey, all I see is infinite power to do anything.
Along the way on this discovery journey, as you have also discovered, is love.
Or you were already aware of love but were unable to express it to the level you envisioned.

Like it has been said...
" Be the change you want to see in the world" or " lead by example."
Love comes into the world through people.
Remove/heal/change what needs to be in oneself so that love radiates out.

I consider one reason why there is so much suffering in the world, due to the unloving thoughts and actions of others,
is because these people are trapped in their hells and are also unable to love others as they would like to.

And like you have discovered of yourself, GentleStrength, you now know how the cycle perpetuates and you have chosen to stop being a part of it.

And as more become aware and stop being part of the destructive cycles apparent in the world, love will flow more into the world.

I like the way you do your energy thing. To be clear is to have nothing that can be affected.

[Mountain-Goat]

True … sometimes realization can occur, however, the solution (to a perceived 'problem') may not always appear on the horizon at the same time. That can mean experiencing a certain level of anxiety until one can let go of old beliefs which don’t align with new understandings. Accompanying dialogue may go something like ...' I know it isn't helping me but i just cant seem to stop myself' ...
I second that True...or is that third it...anyways...

Realisation:
1: Coming to understand something clearly and distinctly.
2: Something that is made real or concrete.

In order to realise a solution, one must have a realisation of the problem.
Acceptance is a part of realisation.
If there is not 100% acceptance, there is no realisation.
One can be intellectually aware, but one can have denial, uncertainty and all manner of opposing/hindering things deeper inside.
As you have said Sound, old beliefs that do not align with the new information.

Case in point: My depression.
For 35+ years I was aware I had problems. I could see/acknowledge the symptoms of this illness, though I had no understanding I had an illness.
I was not aware that my life long personality dysfunctions were being caused by an illness.
7 years ago, upon sharing my symptoms for the first time with a doctor, I became aware I had the illness, Depression.
Now I had something to work on. The culprit had been revealed and for the next 7 years I learnt of it's tactics.
I made progress but I was never completely free from it.
The best I could do was contain it's effects upon the quality of my life.

Coming up to 3 years ago, I found myself in the psych ward after a suicide attempt.
One of the amazing things of the third day there was I kept having these thoughts, " Why am I here, there's nothing wrong with me?"
"Yes I knew I have depression, but why am I in hospital? Hospital is for genuinely sick people?
I know I have issues that I am working on, but hospital? That's a bit extreme don't you think?"

And then the realisation came. "Oh...I'm here because I am sick, hospital is for sick people, Oh...depression is an illness!"
I experienced a blend of joy, anger and fear because I began to see the subtleness of the denial that had been enabled those last 7 years.
Denial founded on the once hidden beliefs and thoughts.

I intellectually knew and understood I had depression and this enabled me to make much progress, but deeper in, there were beliefs of various kinds that were blocking, ignoring, denying all manner of things associated with the desire, thoughts and actions to beat this illness.

The first couple of nights at the psych ward, I would peer out the glass doors at the outside world. It scared me no end.
As I considered the outside world, the world I was to return to, the life I was to return to, I was confronted with death.
That's all that awaited me out there, that's all I could see. Once I leave hospital, death awaits me. My time at the psych ward is but a temporary reprieve.
Depression has brought me to the end of my life. No matter what I did, how much effort, how many different paths, it all lead to death.

But the next day, I once again began re evaluating everything, pondering those questions I mentioned and the subsequent realisations.
It was during that morning, upon musing over these revelations that I had the blackhole/white light vision thingy.( I have a text file of it somewhere's on my puta)
Within a day or so, I was walking to the shops over the street, beaming with wonder and joy. Still physically anxious but internally calm, peaceful and empowered.

A year after hospital, I was totally cured. I wasn't even aware I could cure it, I was simply continuing my journey toward containment/overcoming.
So, the time from realisation of symptoms to realisation of the cause(depression), was 40ish years.
From realisation of illness to realisation of cure was 7 years.
But even in that 7 year period, there was the realisation of self denial that was working against the realisation of the illness.
Realising I had the illness was a major breakthough. I made considerable progress with that knowing.
But it was only part of the equations. The other part was realising the denial mechanisms and removing them.

The reward for all that effort, far above and beyond being cured of depression, of obtaining the life I searched for all those years, of regaining self control/self empowerment, of being free...
Gee, what could be more amazing that all of those things...
This realisation...any thing is possible.

There is a fine line between knowing/understanding a thing, and realising a thing.
I think the difference is the total acceptance, the zero lack of uncertainty, doubt.
The moment you come to a place of total acceptance and thus total commitment to act.
With doubt, fear and uncertainty, one will hesitate to act, one will not be able to choose because one is not totally sure.

Also, as you have stated, there is anxiety till the old beliefs can be let go.
The healing/transformation/growth journey is one of going from one state to another.
The security of the known has to be relinquished in order to embrace the new.
And because it is new, it is unknown. There may be a level of understanding, of seeing this is the way to go, but there is still unknowns.
And it's human nature to fear the unknown, but the only way to transform the unknown into the known is to experience it,
to incorporate it into your psyche, to remove that which opposes it.

And notice how you said, "can be let go". The hinderances of transformation/healing/growth are also controled by self.
The creation of them, the holding onto them and the relinquishing of them are all controled by self.
The journey of self discovery reveals everything that is required to acheive this.
It's a journey from suffering to joy, prison to freedom, turmoil to peace/calm, impossible to possible, fearful retraction to expansive love.
And it's all acheived by self. How awesome is that !

There's a lot more to life than one thinks and it's the explorers who are the ones who discover this.
I can relate in regards to your speed limit story. I used to experience incredibly high levels of fear around being misunderstood or misinterpreted. I worried about how that caused people to see me in a light which I, myself found to be ‘oppositional’ I suppose, is the word I am looking for. We are unusual creatures aren’t we … I have realized though, through experience, (in relation to myself of course), that often times light will be shed 'through' our thoughts and indeed increase our understandings because of that, without needing to actualize those situations etc. does that make sense AC?
Yes. I call it exploring. The same thing scientists do when testing a theory.
Observe, formulate, test, collect data, repeat till issue is sorted.
Lots of running commentary (of mind) in the process of course … and it is almost as if we ‘live our thoughts’ sometimes in a subconscious effort to self preserve lol that scenario obviously works on the premise of ‘less (actualized)pain, more gain lol that paragraph turned into a rant of sorts didn’t it …
Ha, yes it did. Rants are wonderful things. A free flow through numerous things, showing the links between them.
Well, our thoughts create our life. What we think today, determines our tomorrows.
The problem is the unknown thoughts that reside in our subconscious that control our destiny.
The solution is to know these subconscious thoughts.
Can't fix what one doesn't know or can't see.

I am not a fan of the theory that the contents of the subconscious can never be known.
I look at it this way. Self exploration, increase in self awareness will reveal all of self.
Doesn't bother me if others think or believe things in the subconscious can never be known.
Isn't this the whole mandate of Knowing Self?
I mean, what is this thing called Subconscious? Something underneath the conscious, at a deeper level of the conscious.

If it's mine, I have every right and ability to access it.
Far as I can logically conjecture, the only thing stopping me from accessing these areas is myself and I've been pretty successful so far, access wise.
you (silently) give folk permission to explore stuff which may, at first, seem significantly insignificant … that is your gift in a sense I reckon Mr AC
I get what you're saying Sound, though I see it slightly differently and the implications of this different view are huge.
I don't give people permission, they choose to venture forth into themselves, they give themselves permission.
All I do is lead by example. I share what I have achieved and seen by exploring myself, I show the possibilities.
Others see my life, my example and they choose to either follow or not. Not to follow me as I have no idea where I am going or what I am doing.
But others may be inspired to take their own explorative journeys into the wonder and beauty of themselves.
"Hey, look what he's doing...I might give that a go."

I enjoy walking with fellow self exploration travellers, sharing, supporting, hearing of their adventures etc, but I am not imparting anything onto another apart from sharing my experiences.
The empowerment and the inspiration of the other is all self done. And that is the beauty of it. It's all self done.
My gift therefore, is sharing what I have received from all my efforts...life.
Most definitely and, in recent times, I have found the confidence to address ‘pending’ issues (non related to the thinness thing) in exactly that manner … I tend to use a little humor to support what it is I am attempting to extrapolate lol
~smiles~ Oh my...life without humor...I dare not contemplate a world such as this.
Yes … and even when an honest answer is not forthcoming, chances are it will encourage self reflection at some point … from both perspectives of course …
Every moment has enough data to fill eleventee hundred libraries, it's up to the individual to choose to go read.
I find myself smiling too when I think about it many years down the track,however it used to annoy me no end back then … I used to think ‘I don’t make the same old joke about your bloody boisterous and outspoken manner being felt for days after you do actually do go home’ hahaha .. I loved him dearly though ... he was fun and spontaneous and rugged and loved playing the devils advocate ... another thing he drummed into us ... he always used to tell us "Don't think yourself any better, but certainly don't think yourself any worse' :)
From that one thing you quoted of him, I saw a beautiful man.
Great example … and also that old 'if you defend yourself then you must be guilty' of whatever it is that has been highlighted.
Been reading a book, 50 Psychology ideas you really need to know by Adrian Furnham.
A little light reading type of book as each idea is briefly explained within 2-3 pages.
I like the quotes contained within.

"If subjects describe any of the Rorschach inkblots as an inkblot, this is regarded as a defensive response." - Paul Kline,1993

~laughs~ Like you said...humans are unusual creatures.

One of the funniest things I like about the tv show, Frasier, is you have two brilliantly intelligent, articulate and insightful main characters,
and they are as messed up as anyone else, if not more.

An element of this freedom I now live in is I don't care what other's think of me.
I know who I am and if another chooses to evaluate me in a negative light, so what !
If a person is so convinced they know, who am I to disrupt their world.
But if a person wants to get into things, I'm there.
Hehe … likewise AC accompanied by a thousand thank yous’
I'm enjoying our time together.

[sound]

Once again thank you for such a thoughtful and in-depth response AC ... I will pick it back up on the weekend ... enjoying our exchanges also :hug3:

[Mountain-Goat]

Sound...YAY !

And arive, I'm just beginning to write my reply to your last post.
It will most likely take longer than the last one.
Or maybe it will take less.

[Mountain-Goat]

Here's some profound food for thought.
It's Bruce Lipton's closing remarks from his presentation.

Here's the vid (http://www.spiritualforums.com/vb/redir.php?link=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.spiritualforums.co m%2Fvb%2Fredir.php%3Flink%3Dhttp%253A%252F%252Fwww .youtube.com%252Fwatch%253Fv%253DhoR3nAABhKQ) 12:40 into the vid.

"You are powerful beyond anything you've ever imagined, but then you have to recognise responsibility."

He then states this...
"You are personally responsible for everything in your life."

To which he shares how many would become upset upon hearing this claim.
So he has updated this statement to this.

"You are personally responsible for everything in your life;
once you become aware that you are personally responsible for everything in your life."

[sound]

Been reading a book, 50 Psychology ideas you really need to know by Adrian Furnham.
A little light reading type of book as each idea is briefly explained within 2-3 pages. I like the quotes contained within.

"If subjects describe any of the Rorschach inkblots as an inkblot, this is regarded as a defensive response." - Paul Kline,1993

Well there you go ... very cool ... I look up at my bookshelf behind my computer screen and locate my little book of '50 philosophy ideas you really need to know' ... by Ben Dupre different author but i am thinking same ideas yeah?

I haven't read it all however, yes i agree, it does contain some quotes, which are quite the bomb ... :hug3:

[sound]

I get what you're saying Sound, though I see it slightly differently and the implications of this different view are huge. I don't give people permission, they choose to venture forth into themselves, they give themselves permission.

Just pulling bits and pieces out as I go AC ... yes to the above ... poor choice of words on my behalf. You encourage people is what you do ... purely through your ability to 'relate' ... :hug3:

[Mountain-Goat]

Part 1 of 3
I am still reading through the posts. I’ve had some thoughts about it so far. And since it will be a while before I read through it all I figured I’d post a description of what I see in my mind so far, for those who want to take a look around it. Sorry for all the mess, though. There are lots of things in here that I can’t make heads nor tails of either...
Yet a mess is simply the complete picture all jumbled up. What you seek is in the mess.

I find you speak openly, expansively and thoughtfully arive.
And it's one of the reasons why my replies are long, you give me much to respond to.

This time, lots of questions in this set of replies.
You are under no obligation or pressure to share your answers to any of the questions I present arive.
The questions are for you and also the answers are for you. The exploration is your journey.
Though I willingly walk with you as far as you feel comfortable.

I say this because self exploration can become quite painful, unsettling, scary,(add your own adjective here)
Go as far as you feel ok with, but know that increased understanding/growth/healing/transformation/change comes by going beyond one's current safe/comfort/familiar zone.
The trick is to push beyond just enough to make progress but not too much to become overwhelmed.
Be compassionate and understanding to oneself. "Small steps Ellie...small steps." Dad to young Ellie from the movie, Contact.
Anyhow, there was a short period time in my life when I was someone who I could like and my own thoughts made sense to me. I was a mess when growing up, but over the years I put myself together the way I wanted.
I keep trying to organize my mind enough to get back to that. One problem is that the structure of that organization rested a foundation that included the belief everyone is capable of learning to have more compassion and kindness and therefore more happiness. Then I witnessed some realities that contradicted this belief too much.
With that gone, everything that was built upon it fell apart.
I’ve been trying to pick up the pieces ever since. Now there are so many different parts of my mind disagreeing with each other about so many things,
but they almost all seem to share the opinion that there is not much to like about me.
Interesting you say "you could like yourself..." and not, "you did like yourself..."
Could means one is capable, and not neccessarily one has done so.
You also said, you put yourself together the way you wanted, and not the way you liked.

I theorise even this good period was not picture perfect, thast there was still pain bubbling below?
If you are using 'mess' the same way I do in regards to my old life, then I think I understand what it was like for you,
and what suffering you may still be experiencing.
I keep trying to organize my mind enough to get back to that. One problem is that the structure of that organization rested a foundation that included the belief everyone is capable of learning to have more compassion and kindness and therefore more happiness. Then I witnessed some realities that contradicted this belief too much.
I take it you saw many or extreme examples of people being unloving toward you and others.
But look at your belief. The belief is, people are capable of learning to have more compassion and kindness,
and not that they are being or increasing their compassion and kindness.
I see that unloving actions of others does not contradict your belief. The belief is unchallenged, people are still capable, the potential is still there.

If the belief was "people are growing in compassion and kindness" and people were not growing in these things, then yes, the belief is contradicted.
The capacity of all peoples is there in it's fullness, but people aren't choosing to learn, choosing to become, to increase, to grow.
The potential is there, people aren't accessing it.
The question then becomes, Why aren't they choosing? or What is restricting them? and not, Why aren't they capable?
With that gone, everything that was built upon it fell apart. That's a logical consequence when a foundation is removed. Beliefs do not make strong foundations.
Santa was real, then he wasn't. The earth was flat, then it was round.
The earth was the center of the universe, then it wasn't, and didn't the religious people of the day freak out when they heard that one.
Gathering more information, more understanding, changed those beliefs.
The problem aren't beliefs. It's what beliefs are founded on, Truth or not.
Belief - any cognitive content held as true.
To put it another way, a belief is labeling a conclusion one has derived from one's perception, as a truth.

But, is your conclusion correct?
What if you use other established beliefs in the equations of the current belief you are formulating and these established beliefs are wrong?
All beliefs must be tested to validate their claims.
Just because people are not growing in compassion and kindness, does not mean they are not capable.
Don't bin that belief because you see no growth in compassion. There are many other factors to consider.

In my mid 30's, me and my pre teen kids were walking at night to the shops.
As we passed under a street lamp, it turned off, and it turned back on again after we passed it.
Street lamps do this regularly, a mechanical/electrical fault of some kind and it's just quirky when it happens at the same time you are there.
My kids thought nothing of it, but I noticed the lamp did not turn off when other people in front of us walked under it.

I was just beginning my exploration journey so the idea of the lamp being affected by one of us caught my attention.
My kids, depending on their emotional state, as we were only a couple of years into the family breakup,
would either be fascinated or annoyed by my strange ideas and bizarre behavior as I would conduct experiments to test these ideas.

"Hang on a sec", as I turned and walked back under the lamp.
"What are you doing?", as they stood there watching me standing under the lamp.
"Elijah, just you, come here under the lamp." He did and the lamp remained lit.
"Ok, Laelaanie, now you." As soon as she came under the lamp, it went out.
The kids still didn't know what all this was for, but they were intrigued this night.
"Ok, you both stay here and I will walk over to there." I did and the lamp remained off.
"Ok, Elijah, come over here." He did and the lamp remained off.
"Ok, now you Laelaaanie." She did and the lamp came back on.
"What's going on dad?", they asked as they weren't taking any notice of the lamp.

They knew something was afoot, but they couldn't see what.
I told them about the lamp and my theory and all three of us conducted more experiments for 30 minutes.
Everytime Laelaanie stepped under the lamp, it turned off.
We tried many variations and each one resulted in her having an instant and continuous affect on the lamp.

We continued onto the shops, discussing the experiments, excited and looking forward to passing under the lamp on the way home.
I shared my concerns of not jumping to conclusions.
"Why were none of the other lamps affected?"
"More tests need to be conducted because it's possible that we just experienced a high dosage of coincidence,
that the lamp is simply faulty and goes off and on just as Laelaanie is under it, even staying off when she stayed under it."
"We shall see when we get back to it."

Coming out of the shops, as we saw the lamp in the distance, it was off. Maybe there was another effector person under it.
As we walked along the path, keeping an eye on the lamp, it came on and there was no one near it.
Before we reached the lamp it had turned off and on again a few times.
We conducted the same experiments and this time, Laelaanie had no affect on it at all.
The lamp turned off and on again regardless of what position any of us took.

On the way to the shop, after the initial experiments, Laelaanie was creating a belief she was affecting it.
I mean gee, the data was pretty convincing.
If we conducted more experiments and the results were the same as the first ones, I too would have created a belief she was affecting it.
I’ve been trying to pick up the pieces ever since. Now there are so many different parts of my mind disagreeing with each other about so many things,I get how confusing that can be. I can't solve a Rubik's Cube. Too many variables. Too many elements.
I understand how to play chess, but I can only be a few moves ahead, where the masters mentally play the game to it's conclusion for each physical move they make.
And when I had my breakdown in my 20's and my wife leaving me in my 30's...overwhelmed with millions of conflicting thoughts.
Solution...one problem at a time. For you, one disagreement at a time.

There's a puzzle that goes like this.
Two doors. One door leads to death, the other leads to life.
Guarding each door is a robot. One robot can only tell the truth and the other can only tell lies.
You do not know which robot is which and you can only ask one robot one question in order to find out which door leads to life.

There is a solution to this puzzle and there is a solution to all of your inner puzzles.
All puzzles are solved by establishing the facts and using them as the cornerstones of the construction of the answer.
The facts in that puzzle are, one door is life, one door is death, one robot lies and one robot is truthful.
Same with all problems, puzzles and mysteries. There is always a fact, a known amongst the unknowns.

No matter how many different parts of your mind are disagreeing with each other, there are parts that are in agreement.
There are solid foundations within you, find them, acknowledge them, build from them.
If you were in total disagreement, you could not function at all in life.
Sort out the disagreements, one by one.

With an inner disagreement, it's either one part is wrong and the other right, or both are wrong.
Or, they are both right, but there is another part that stops you from seeing that.
Or, one or both are partially right.

It is said the best way to hide a lie is inside a truth.
Present a half truth/half lie and the whole thing is susceptible to be believed as truth.
Politicians are proficient at speaking half truths. But then so again are all of us.

Total honesty with oneself is a vital part of healing.
Compassion, gentleness, patience, non judgementalism/negative criticism, and understanding toward oneself makes this process easier.
Well, those qualities are required all the time and aren't those the qualities of Love?

Each part has to be tested, but if there is so much confusion that it's difficult to establish one truth to work from...
bin the whole lot and start afresh.
Reboot, just like when your puta gets all clogged up. Then with a clean slate, reinitialise one belief, test it, evaluate it.
Accept it if it makes sense, reject it if it doesn't, then reinitialise another.
Sometimes a clean reboot is much quicker than sorting through a tangled mess because you are focused on one thing at a time,
and when you reintroduce a second thing, you can clearly see the effect of that on your system.
but they almost all seem to share the opinion that there is not much to like about me.
What are these disagreeing parts of your mind?
How can they have opinions? Isn't there just one of you?
You may have many conflicting thoughts and beliefs but you are not these things.
These are things you have, that you create and formulate.
How does having conflicting thoughts and beliefs equate to not liking yourself?
Why are you beating yourself up, is it because others have and you have created a belief that you deserve it?

You are not alone arive. I theorise, based on my limited observations, that disliking oneself is a global illness.
It's some kind of human trait that all are afflicted with and I think it has something to do with lack of self awareness.

"If you accept a limiting belief, then it will become a truth for you." - Louise L.Hay

"Self-acceptance is my refusal to be in an adversarial relationship with myself. " - Nathaniel Branden

"The curious paradox is that when I accept myself just as I am, then I can change." - Carl Rogers

"The limiting beliefs and self-doubts that plague most of us are formidable opponents. One of the most effective ways of dealing with these harsh internal messages is to learn to question every single should and limiting belief with the gentle innocence of children." - Maggie Craddock

My self disliking was so strong that it was a huge part of wanting to end my life, and these self disliking beliefs were established before I was 7.
~laughs~ Yes, I was a prodigy. A gifted child. To be suicidal at 7, that takes a rare gift/ability.
Although that way of looking at it is silly nonsense, there is also profound truth in it to which I have been sharing in this thread thus far.


No more self dislike now, but it took many years of inner exploration to get to this place where I now love who I am.
Though it takes self love to take the journey in the first place, you just don't realise you are loving self while you are hating self.
ie: Everytime you eat when hungry, that is self love.
You only have huge realisations of it when all or most of the wounds are healed, but self love was the driving force that empowered you to that point.

[Mountain-Goat]

Part 2 of 3
I was aware that the void left where my belief that there is hope for everyone used to be was a major source of my problems. I revisit this occasionally to try to figure out some solution, but I just come across the same irreconcilable differences between different parts of my mind. What complicates this more than anything is the existence of classical narcissists. Of course, it was a narcissist who wounded me pretty badly, among others. Looking at it objectively, there is currently no solid proof either way that narcissists can get better. Only one person, who has no expert background, claims that some have recovered from the disorder, which is entirely anecdotal. I can find hardly anything written by an actual expert in the field of psychology about this question. Most of the information, even on health web sites, comes from one narcissist with a pretend degree he bought on some web site. There’s really not much reliable information out there. So for now it comes down to what I want to believe and what I am able to believe.
The harsh reality is arive, that in order to fix a problem, one must be willing to continue passionately till a solution is found.
But oh how reality transforms into deep joy when the solution is found.
Working toward the solution is the hard part, but in order to obtain the solution, the work must be done.

What is the relationship between narcissists and you, apart from the one that hurt you deeply?
Or asked this way, what influence do narcissists have on your current life?
Is not your desire to heal yourself, and if yes, then what has narcissism got to do with this task?
These differences you percieve to be irreconcilable, have you explored why they are?
If you have and that's why you conclude them to be irreconcilable, have you considered that it's because you have not yet found a solution so you resign yourself to classifying them irreconcilable?

Consider Edison...he tried 10 000 times till he found the right combinations of metals for the filament till he got his light bulb to work.
If you believe them to be irreconcilable, will this cause you to not even try to find a solution, or at least, reduce the amount of time and energy spent in looking for solutions?
Would not the belief of irreconcilability be in conflict with trying to find solutions?
On the one hand, while I had the belief that there is hope for everyone it worked quite well as a base to support a more organized and healthy mind. That should be evidence that there could be truth in it. On the other hand, it wasn’t strong enough to stand up to certain realities that seemed to contradict this belief. It took more energy to keep holding on to it in spite of what I had witnessed. That is evidence that it could be wrong. But without it, everything that I had built upon it fell apart. I can’t build anything on hopelessness, even if it is only partial hopelessness for about 1% of humanity. Things I used to know and understand back then no longer make sense to me. I wrote about them a lot, but now I can’t understand my own writings from that time. So we are back to some evidence that the belief could be right. Still, I have seen and experienced things that make it very difficult to believe that this 1% of the population has any chance of getting past their delusions at all. Hope for 99% is not enough to be able to understand what I used to understand that gave me peace. *looks around my mind...* This place is a disaster.
Here's what I have discovered regarding my beliefs. If it takes effort to maintain it, hold onto it, keep it as a truth, then there is something incomplete about it, something unstable that requires energy from me to keep it intact.
But if it's something I know, there is no energy involved in maintaining my knowns.
So, is a belief the middle stage from an idea/theory to a known?
An idea is a theory, the first thoughts upon observing and evaluating an experience.
To go to a state of knowing, the theories are tested and modified through more experiences till one has filled in all the missing pieces, all the math adds up, all the links to the chain are found.
Inbetween these two are beliefs, which are temporary truths, to aid in one's continuous evaluations and tests.
Stepping stones of faith used to make progress. Temporarily assigning a truth tag to a part of the equation in order to test the theory.
The problems arise when these temporary truths are locked in as absolute truths.

I feel for you arive.
Here's the two ways I used to describe the mess in my head.
1: A massive ball of string, every inch tangled so badly, with knots pulled so tight that you could harldy see them.
I saw this whenever I was emotionally upset, my heart aching, my gut contracted and tense, the weight of the world upn my shoulders as I tried to comprehend my reality.
2: A glass vase violently shattered onto the floor into millions of tiny shards.
This is when I was numb from the confusion and pain. As I looked at the shattered vase, I was speechless as to how I was going to put it back together again.

Mess, disaster, tangled and shattered beyond repair...these are all expressions of being overwhelmed. And within journeys, there will be times of being overwhelmed.
The good news is that being overwhelmed is also self created.

When you go jogging, you set a pace and you're feeling energetic, you come to a hill and keep the pace up,
by the time you become aware you can't keep the same pace, it's too late and your body is overwhelmed and you have to stop for a breather.
You are in charge of your pace, but it's your perception of your abilities and your expectations or desires to do things a certain way that control what happens to you on the journey.
It's not the hill that overwhelms you, it's how you chose to take it on.

When I got out of hospital, it wasn't till 12 months later that I was physically able to ride each day.
It took me a few weeks of riding experiences to change my riding style so I could ride for longer but maintain a level of energy for the whole ride.
My only rule was I would never hop off the bike and walk it. This way I was still pushing to become stronger.
So, I soon learnt that when hills came I would exert compassion on myself and go as slow as I needed up these hills.

If I rode hard, and it felt physically empowering to ride hard up hills, before I got to the top, I had no energy left and I was on the lowest gear, panting, wobbling, wishing I never got out of bed.
Add to that, after recouping my breath and energy, the rest of the ride was painful and not enjoyable.
So much so that it would be days before I would consider going for another ride.
But once I learned to be self compassionate and ride easily up the hills, the rest of the ride was enjoyable, I could ride longer, thus exercise more,
and most days I would go out again in the afternoon because it was so enjoyable and I had reserves of energy.
I made more progress doing it this way than overdoing it up hills.
The wisdom was realising my goal was a long term process. It was going to take me months to get back to a level of fitness I used to have.
Oh I wanted to return to active duty in days, but the reality is because of how much damage there was, it was going to be a long process.

The other half of this is there were hills that were huge, they actually were extremely difficult.
These hills were a mess, a disaster.
I tackled these huge hills by looking at my front wheel and focusing on one pedal stoke, then the next, instead of looking at the whole hill and seeing the top seemingly not geting any closer.
I found that if I pedaled the same pace, I would use more energy if I looked at the whole hill compared to looking at right in front of me, my next step.
Looking at the whole hill and using more energy is called psyching yourself out.
The distance and pace was the same but energy was being lost by being psychologically overwhelmed.
How do you clean a mess, restore an area that has been devastated? One thing at a time.
And you will find that as each thing is fixed, the energy, pace and enthusiasm increases.

[Mountain-Goat]

Part 3 of 3
I remember that I wasn’t of the opinion that people choose to feel hurt when back I was healthier. Looking back at some old writings, I had explored the belief that pain is willingly chosen for a while, but then found that it did not make sense and I was better off without it. This did not mean that people can’t find a way to prevent the reaction of suffering or hurting when certain things happen. But I found that believing that suffering and hurt is willingly chosen brought me further away from the truth instead of closer to it. I treated hurt feelings as something that happens naturally when people do not thoroughly understand what is going on with them or the other people involved. Believing that it is always chosen even when people don’t know what is going on exactly would not make sense would complicate the process of overcoming it for me. So I replaced it with the theory that hurt happens naturally although it can be prevented with the right understanding. This seemed to have been working at the time, and I think it would work again if I could relearn how to understand the stuff that needs to be understood.
"Pain happens, but suffering is optional. When pain comes, make use of the experience, but do not wallow in it.
When you accidentally place your finger in a flame, it is supposed to hurt just long enough for you to pull it out.
If you think there is value in keeping it there, you will be a crispy critter. Pain is a minor element of life, unless you are indulging it.
Then it becomes suffering. Get the message and then get on with your life, which is far more about joy than sorrow." - Alan Cohen

This is one of my fav quotes. When I contemplate this, I see suffering as holding onto a painful experience well after the incident has gone. The wound part of the experience.
But, a physical wound remains long after the experience. I get that.
But inner wounds are not exactly like physical wounds, but I do take the similarity into account.

Grieving for example. It's called the grieving process. It's a journey, to go from one state to another.
But alarm bells start ringing in other's minds when another is still in the process well beyond the norm.
Or like when you're angry with someone and you're still angry about that mild practical joke 20 years later.

An unusual process takes place where one is going from a rational response of pain of an experience, to holding onto the pain, perpetuating it. The wound remains.
Yes, there is no universal time limit for each particular painful experience. Each person will process at their own pace.
But, from what I have learnt of myself, suffering, this self perpetuating pain can manifest so subtley that one can not see it happen.
You think you're still rationally responding to a painful experience.
"Hey, that was painful, so I have every right to feel pain. It's logical, that hurt so I will feel pain."

Plus, suffering can manifest because the pain of one experience triggers other past experiences. Pain creating new pains or re engaging old pains.
Pain is in one sense, a natural part of life, but suffering, prolonging the pain well after the experience, is the dysfunction self inflicting element ot it all.
And I will go even further and state that the initial pain is also partially or wholly created by self.
Anyways...I have not looked into this till a day or so ago so here's some more quotes.

"Be not the slave of your own past – plunge into the sublime seas, dive deep, and swim fast, so you shall come back with self-respect, with new power, with an advanced experience, that shall explain and overlook the old." - Ralph Waldo Emerson

"Generally speaking, we regard discomfort in any form as bad news. But for practitioners or spiritual warriors - people who have a certain hunger to know what is true - feelings like disappointment, embarrassment, irritation, resentment, anger, jealousy, and fear, instead of being bad news, are actually very clear moments that teach us where it is that we're holding back.
They teach us to perk up and lean in, when we feel we'd rather collapse and back away. They're like messengers that show us, with terrifying clarity, exactly where we're stuck. This very moment is the perfect teacher, and, lucky for us, it's with us wherever we are." - Pema Chödrön

"Sometimes things have to fall apart, so that we can choose again, and put ourselves back together the way we want, and are meant to be..." - Jeff Anderson

"We don't get through human life without problems that appear unsolvable. It may be a diagnosis, it may be a downsizing, it may be rejection or betrayal, or even surrendering a freedom we had, such as being unable to drive anymore. But even as some problems lie beyond our own capacity, we grow in other ways... By lifting out of ordinary thinking, we discover something extraordinary in ourselves." - Mary Manin Morrissey

"We have to learn to be our own best friends because we fall too easily into the trap of being our own worst enemies." - Roderick Thorpe

"A good way to let go of unconscious beliefs and to see yourself more honestly is to examine the secrets you keep from others. I have never met anyone who doesn't have secrets. But consider this: the fact that you have secrets is the same thing as affirming, "If people really knew me, they wouldn't accept me" (translation: "I'm not acceptable as I am"). We knock
ourselves out to appear acceptable by doing things that reinforce the feeling that we are not." - Susan Campbell

"It is the Law that any difficulties that can come to you at any time, no matter what they are, must be exactly what you need most at the moment, to enable you to take the next step forward by overcoming them. The only real misfortune, the only real tragedy, comes when we suffer without learning the lesson." - Emmet Fox

"No situation can be difficult of itself; it is the lack of insight into its intricacies, and the want of wisdom in dealing with it, which give rise to the difficulty. Immeasurable, therefore, is the gain of a difficulty transcended." - James Allen

"Calamities can bring growth and Enlightenment," said the Master.
And he explained it thus: "Each day a bird would shelter in the withered branches of a tree that stood in the middle of a vast deserted plain. One day a whirlwind uprooted the tree, forcing the poor bird to fly a hundred miles in search of shelter -- till it finally came to a forest of fruit-laden trees." And he concluded: "If the withered tree had survived, nothing would have induced the bird to give up its security and fly."" - Anthony de Mello

"Our soul work...is to repair ourselves, to heal into wholeness. It is, simply put, to identify and remove whatever gets in the way of being truly who we are. It is the task of uncovering our authentic self from the encrustations that overlay it, concealing it from us." - M.J. Abadie

"The places in our personality where we tend to deviate from love are not our faults, but our wounds." - Marianne Williamson

"The spiritual journey, the path of recovery and personal growth, is a detoxification process in which we bring up and out the negative beliefs we have carried with us from the past and that no longer serve us in the present." - Marianne Williamson

"Stopping, calming and restoring are preconditions for healing. When animals in the forest are wounded they find a place to lie down and rest for many days... They just rest, and get the healing they need." - Thich Nhat Hanh

"People have a hard time letting go of their suffering. Out of a fear of the unknown, they prefer suffering that is familiar." - Thich Nhat Hanh

"There comes a time when the pain of continuing exceeds the pain of stopping. At that moment, a threshold is crossed. What seemed unthinkable becomes thinkable. Slowly, the realization emerges that the choice to continue what you have been doing is the choice to live in discomfort, and the choice to stop what you have been doing is the choice to breathe deeply and freely again. Once that realization has emerged, you can either honor it or ignore it, but you cannot forget it. What has become known can not become unknown again." - Gary Zukav

"By clinging to our pain we depower ourselves. We begin to believe we have no other choice but to feel pain. We argue for our limitations thereby adopting them and limiting ourselves." - Lynn Atkinson

"Finding joy doesn't mean that life will always be easy; rather life becomes rich because we live near the pulse of possibility. To open the door, you can start by saying I am willing. I am willing to feel, to Know, to love, and to expand. I am willing to let the concrete walls of my beliefs slip away and move into a new level of awareness." - Charlotte Davis Kas
　
However, there is the problem that I still don’t entirely understand the things I used to understand that made people seem less offensive even whey they were trying to offend. Some of the same people who I used to be explaining these things to are currently better at it than I am now, both because they got better and I got worse. I see them being much more calm about something that I feel incensed by and saying that the person is just scared or not right in the head and I find myself wishing I could be that wise. Then I remember that I used to be and I was saying the same sort of things to them years ago. Being aware that people hurt others because they are hurting and concentrating on that awareness was part of that understanding. It has been lying around here in the clutter of my mind somewhere, forgotten and neglected and buried under debris. It helps a bit to excavate that and see what I can still do with it.
In a sense, it's like you have taken a step forward but then two steps back.
Which could be from building positive or truth structures on top of old negative or false ones, and then the negative/false ones collapsed, thus collapsing the positive/truth ones that were on top.
Or, it's now time to heal wounds that have been put aside. They have bubbled to the surface, now it's time to address them.
You're containment tank has filled and has spilled over the sides into your day to day life.
There are so many ways to look at it, arive. Only you can determine what's going on.
Or, this mess, this disaster, has come about because you have been excavating.
You have uncovered them, which means you want to deal with them at this time in your life.
Maybe you weren't aware excavating would reveal these things, but from what you've shared thus far,
it seems logical to me that the journey you're on will bring these things to the fore.
If your desire is to sort yourself out, it's logical that the things that need sorting will manifest, you are calling them out.
They aren't coming into your life, you are going into your life, into yourself.

Just read this passage this morning. It's from Bruce Liptons, The Biology of Belief.

"As you've learned in this chapter, scientists have recently made great progress towards unraveling the complexity of the simple looking membrane(of a cell).
But even twenty years ago, the rough outlines of the membrane's functions were known.
In fact, it was twenty years ago when I first realised how understanding the workings of the membrane could be life changing.
My eureka moment resembled the dynamics of super saturated solutions in chemistry.
These solutions, which look like plain water, are fully saturated with a dissolved substance.
They are so saturated that just one more drop of the solute causes a dramatic reaction in which all of hte dissolved materials instantly coalesce into a giant crystal."

The way he described his eureka moment, his realisation/revelation/lightbulb moment/awakening/moment of enlightenment/of understanding of something, is brilliant.
Just one more piece of the puzzle, just one more bit of information and instantly, you see the answer to your problem. The whole thing instantly makes sense.
It's like you are building an art piece of a complex arrangement of lights. Bulbs, wires, structures to hold it all. Not a pretty sight, bit of a mess really.
But it's designed in a way that it won't light up till the last bulb is in place, and then all the lights go on and then you see the beauty of the piece.
The sun can't be seen till you have climbed the last bit of the mountain. But you can't climb the last bit till you have climbed all the other bits before it.
No glorious experience of sunshine till you have traversed the darkened side of the mountain to get to the point where you can see recieve the benefits of all your labors.

I was driving home early this morning, taking my new sis in law to work.
The sky is beautifully overcast, huge grey clouds of various shades gliding through the air at a fairly brisk pace... 100mph or more.
Lots of rolling hills on the way home, some covered in trees, others grassed fields for livestock or grain or vegetables.

Either way, Tazzie, in this area, it's all lush dark green, especially under a clouded sky.
One particular hill was illuminated by rays of light as the sun broke through the cloud canopy.
The contrast generated a vibrant quality to this sunlight and was most breathtaking.
Funny how you don't notice the sun when it's a cloudless day, but when the sun breaks through the darkness, you take extra notice of it.
You appreciate it as opposed to taking it for granted.
Such is the healing journey. Appreciating the positives, abilities, strengths and beauty of oneself in contrast of all the pain and dysfunction one has.

[Mountain-Goat]

Well there you go ... very cool ... I look up at my bookshelf behind my computer screen and locate my little book of '50 philosophy ideas you really need to know' ... by Ben Dupre different author but i am thinking same ideas yeah?

I haven't read it all however, yes i agree, it does contain some quotes, which are quite the bomb ... :hug3:
YAY ! I bought the philosophy one as well.
Post office has a whole stack of them.
The format is the same for each topic, just different authors.

[Mountain-Goat]

Just pulling bits and pieces out as I go AC ... yes to the above ... poor choice of words on my behalf. You encourage people is what you do ... purely through your ability to 'relate' ... :hug3:
I have found that finding the exact words to describe what's on my mind or in my heart is not as easy as it looks inside.
It makes sense to me when I speak to myself, but I have no idea how another will interpret those words.

The joy is, understanding and knowing that communication "errors" are part of the experience.
This frees one up from worrying about making mistakes or being misunderstood.
And how bonding is a simple, "please clarify what you mean."

I like your updated version Sound.
Sharing our lives with each other...openly, compassionately, graciously...I can think of no better way to be with others.

[arive nan]

I just want to say, thank you again AC for the thoughtful post :hug3:. I have been reading through it and will respond in more detail when I can.

[Mountain-Goat]

As an eternal being arive, I have all the time in the world.
Please respond when you are ready, no rush. Take months if you require.
And you're welcome. I enjoy your openness. Bonus if you find something of value in what I have shared.

I know this stuff works for me because these are the experiences of my life.
This is not proof that it will be of benefit to others.

[Tosh]

I'm on this path but, how do I move foward whithout my husband. I can't leave him behind? He wants to learn but, he is stuck with things to overcome!!

[Mountain-Goat]

I'm on this path but, how do I move foward whithout my husband. I can't leave him behind? He wants to learn but, he is stuck with things to overcome!!
The inner realm is timeless so you can be eleventee hundred miles ahead of your husband and at the same time be right next to him.
If you can't leave him behind, then don't.

Consider that part of your journey is to stay and help him.
I do not know if it is, only you can know this.
Choose love as your foundation for all the decisions and actions you take.
It's not how long a journey takes, but the quality of your life within the journey.