shutting away or getting out there

[peteyzen]

A great many people think that to grow spiritually they have to shut off from life. recently I read the following discourse from Sai baba in which he is saying to get out in society and practice your spirituality in amongst others which I like, What do others think?
`Shutting yourself in a room and offering incense and flowers to a picture or image of God, and singing or reciting His glory are very poor substitutes for the discipline that will liberate you from ignorance. All beings are images of God; all men are His pictures; then, why shut yourselves in? All creation is marching on a pilgrimage to Him; why then behave as if you are trekking it alone? You believe that the time spent in church or temple or the domestic shrine in adoration and in ritual worship is devoted to God and the rest is spent for other purposes. But you cannot demarcate and delimit the realms of God and man like that. God is ever with you everywhere. Vasudheva sarvamidham - All this is God. Society is the school where this lesson is taught to those who earnestly seek.`

[Baile]

Unlike the cloistered spirituality of centuries past (monasteries, nunneries), modern spirituality has to do with the evolution of the soul via the path of moral self-development. One can only accomplish that via stepping into the world and interacting with other souls.

[Brucely]

Shutting yourself in is a main stage of realizing yourself. The problem with getting out there is that few people share the same beliefs let alone talk about the same subject

[Baile]

Shutting yourself in is a main stage of realizing yourself. The problem with getting out there is that few people share the same beliefs let alone talk about the same subjectIt's not about finding other like-minded spiritualists. It's about interacting with all human souls in a loving way, understanding everyone is your mirror and can teach you something about yourself.

Yes, this path does require withdrawing from time to time in order to self-reflect, and to recharge as it requires a lot of conscious energy to work in the world this way. But that's an entirely different thing than shutting one's self off from the world period.

[peteyzen]

That`s a great point Brucely. And I think probably that`s why we need to get out there, the battle is to be spriitual and true to our spirituality whilst among people with different views surely? To tread our path, living by our values and not expecting others to be the same and not even trying to influence them appears to me to be a spirtual achievement. Also, how else does life grind off our rough edges if we hide away from it.

[Baile]

the battle is to be spriitualIf it's a battle then the person is going about it in the wrong way. Being a loving spiritual individual, being happy in life and loving towards others, is the easiest thing in the world. Like floating down a stream in a row boat.

[peteyzen]

If it's a battle then the person is going about it in the wrong way. Being a loving spiritual individual, being happy in life and loving towards others, is the easiest thing in the world. Like floating down a stream in a row boat.
To quote will smith in `The legend of Bagger Vance;
`Well... It is and it aint.`
When one is trying to change personal attitudes and overcome habitual behaviour, rather like an alcoholic drying out, then it is a battle my friend. And if you are trying to do that whilst still among other alcoholics it is definitely a fight.

[Baile]

To quote will smith in `The legend of Bagger Vance;
`Well... It is and it aint.`
When one is trying to change personal attitudes and overcome habitual behaviour, rather like an alcoholic drying out, then it is a battle my friend. And if you are trying to do that whilst still among other alcoholics it is definitely a fight.It takes conscious work that can sap one's energy, so it can be difficult in that regard, yes. But it's a loving process, always. Spirit is entirely benevolent. But I suppose it has to do with one's general life outlook. If one has a negative and adversarial view of people and the world, then they would no doubt experience that process as a battle and fight, sure.

[naturesflow]

A great many people think that to grow spiritually they have to shut off from life. recently I read the following discourse from Sai baba in which he is saying to get out in society and practice your spirituality in amongst others which I like, What do others think?
`Shutting yourself in a room and offering incense and flowers to a picture or image of God, and singing or reciting His glory are very poor substitutes for the discipline that will liberate you from ignorance. All beings are images of God; all men are His pictures; then, why shut yourselves in? All creation is marching on a pilgrimage to Him; why then behave as if you are trekking it alone? You believe that the time spent in church or temple or the domestic shrine in adoration and in ritual worship is devoted to God and the rest is spent for other purposes. But you cannot demarcate and delimit the realms of God and man like that. God is ever with you everywhere. Vasudheva sarvamidham - All this is God. Society is the school where this lesson is taught to those who earnestly seek.`

I use life itself to reflect through and then use that growth to share as myself where I am, everywhere I am. If you are truly becoming and walking the talk more open and self aware spirituality becomes life itself. We are born as the purpose of life and creation so whatever we become is wherever we are even as one might use their own sacred space or adoration practice as part of their creative calling. Uniqueness means nothing needs to be the way. All ways serve the whole and when it no longer serves life will call the change and then we notice more, we may change our way. Being open for me means I listen to all ways and walk my own way as I connect and know is right for me. Adoration, altars, are places to open and connect that is all. Most move from there in some way through life. Carry those seeds into some form of relating back to life.We walk alone we walk together-Kelli

[naturesflow]

That`s a great point Brucely. And I think probably that`s why we need to get out there, the battle is to be spriitual and true to our spirituality whilst among people with different views surely? To tread our path, living by our values and not expecting others to be the same and not even trying to influence them appears to me to be a spirtual achievement. Also, how else does life grind off our rough edges if we hide away from it.

Yes letting life crack open all of you in every wayife is..people walk around in their cocoons and ideal creations believing
they are fully open to life through their spiritual relationship but until you take yourself into unfamiliar territory you cannot know the depth of your own likeness in all life and what each reflection brings to be in you showing more always..

[7luminaries]

It takes conscious work that can sap one's energy, so it can be difficult in that regard, yes. But it's a loving process, always. Spirit is entirely benevolent. But I suppose it has to do with one's general life outlook. If one has a negative and adversarial view of people and the world, then they would no doubt experience that process as a battle and fight, sure.

Baile, much of what you say is true, and I agree.
But folks may be loving and still experience the world as adversarial.
It happens all the time. We are not always met with what we offer, nor are we met where we are. That too is the reality.

I think there is a lot of wisdom in the Eastern perspective of first making no assumptions or psychologising about the individual. We tend to do a lot of that in the West because of our individualistic ideology (or theology, for some) that we are (at the extreme) wholly self-reliant and totally independent. So all fault lies with the individual...also that truthsaying is bad if it looks at the misalignment we perpetrate instead of focusing on gratitude. The truth is we are interdependent, and IMO all truth is also ultimately "good"...such that we need to be aware of the full spectrum of our social and spiritual reality.

In the East -- and here we need to take a page from their book IMO -- 2 broad truths are generally always assumed (and expected even) to be at play in any context:

1 - the individual is generally assumed to be doing his or her part and taking ownership, else he/she will be ground down and/or it the burden will be laid squarely on his/her back regardless.
2 - the structure of society and the will of those in power is generally not one the individual can counter. The individual may be kind (expected) and even loving and giving (more like a Buddha even), but that does not mean life, situations, and others will greet him or her with kindness and love. Like may actively persecute you and grind you down...because humanity is full of iniquity and misalignment that has not yet been perfected or right-aligned.

In some cases, the individual can be reprimanded or instructed to keep gratitude at centre. But even so doing, they can also factually describe a society that is toxic, brutal and/or oppressive. It is a statement of truth, for all that nothing is wasted and that ultimately all is to the good :D Both are true. There is brutal misalignment and also it is ultimately all to the good :hug3:

Peace & blessings,
7L

[Baile]

Baile, much of what you say is true, and I agree.
But folks may be loving and still experience the world as adversarial.
It's only ever about the degree of consciousness with which we react to the world as we see and experience it. The world can be adversarial, sure. And the higher response is one accepts and loves the world nevertheless. And let's be clear, we're not speaking of the "world." The world in fact is faultless and perfect. Rather, we're identifying the adversarial actions of human beings. And here's where religion has wisdom: "But I tell you, love your enemies and pray for those who persecute you."

It all comes down to choice. One can choose to battle life and face adversity with enmity and aggression, or choose to embrace even the difficult aspects of life with love, acceptance and a peaceful heart.

[H:O:R:A:C:E]

It all comes down to choice. One can choose to battle the world and face life-adversity with enmity and aggression, or embrace even those difficult aspects of life with love and acceptance.

yes, i agree that choice is at the base of all things [for beings such as we are].
imo: there is also the factor of where we are at presently to consider as well.
if we sense ourselves to be disempowered, as if tied down with stones being
thrown at us, then anger might be the best available choice as response.
to recognize that we have somehow been responsible for allowing ourselves
to wind up in that predicament may allow for a "more loving" choice to be
made, but that alone won't extricate us from the situation (as i understand).

it seems that love, informed by the anger (which tells us that "this should not be"),
might provide the empowerment required to cause the desired changes of
circumstances. in other words, eliminating the element of anger might be
a disservice to our well-being.

[Badcopyinc]

The individual may be kind (expected) and even loving and giving (more like a Buddha even), but that does not mean life, situations, and others will greet him or her with kindness and love. Like may actively persecute you and grind you down...because humanity is full of iniquity and misalignment that has not yet been perfected or right-aligned.


From my personal experience, When i view the world as perfect just like Baile said. because i agree that it is. Then I'm given even more of just that.

I'm smack dab in the middle of what some would consider a low vibration location on the east coast of the us. half the people don't even say hi or are afraid to make eye contact and interact with anyone they don't know.

But since changing my outlook and viewing even those that are like that as lovely people. they cross my path a lot less. I actually use this as an indicator at times. when i'm crossing paths with low vibration individuals i usually can backtrack to me losing focus or forgetting whats really important. (sometimes its because there is a lesson i need to learn or the other party does, mostly both)

The other day i was sitting at city island looking at a sunset with a friend. She made a comment about how she wished it was a good sunset day. I then directed her attention to above the mountains in view. showed her the very light purples that were starting to form. took her a second she noticed. as time went on the sky got more and more beautiful. She even mentioned to me how she like the way i always find the beauty in life opposed to how to improve it.

[CrystalSong]

It is said:

If you are really determined
to find Tao,
you can do that even when you are in a city
and have a high position in worldly affairs.
That is not contradictory.
The work is easy and close by,
the secret is so simple,
that, if it were disclosed,
laughter would be all around.

[Jyotir]

There are some significant trends occurring presently, and they are somewhat interrelated.



Invocation
More people are consciously invoking Spirit into their lives.
Some are doing this to fulfill ignorant desires (even if unconsciously insincere in terms of professed intention).
Some are doing this to consciously, deliberately and importantly SINCERELY become truth-consciousness/God’s Will in action -
even if in rudimentary, nascent forms.

This alone is presently a source of much conflict in the world because although the same means is being employed (invocation of Spirit), and both may be essentially progressive within respective contexts of individual standard and therefore valid for each - in essence the 2 approaches are inherently antithetical.

Desire is progressive for those who were previously inertial.

Aspiration is progressive for those who are outgrowing and dissatisfied with the fulfillment of desire-life, but aspiring people see the goals of the previous set as regressive, because for them (been there, done that) it is.

And therein is a problem of 2 fundamentally different approaches: change circumstance externally or transcend circumstance internally.

Interestingly enough, monastics of by-gone days sought to accomplish the latter by exercising the former through isolation. They just saw it as much easier to accomplish spiritual goals by physically removing distraction by removing themselves from it.

Globalization
There is now a critical mass of people relative to available space (because of the fulfillment of some specific powerful desires, obviously). The physical world is physically limited - even if consciousness isn’t - Since Life is differentiated, and the resultant individuated lives are essentially One and therefore unavoidably interdependent, modern communications and transportation has exponentially accelerated those interdependent interactions, and globalization is an inevitable result.

This is also a source of conflict since it challenges physical isolation, prerogatives and previous ‘sovereignty’ of both individuals (my ego) and nation-states (tribal or collective ego), including the availability and sharing of resources, which also includes personal and resource mobility. It necessarily means that interactive cooperation becomes indispensable vs. ‘self-sufficient’ isolation (there is none), or action determined by power of advantage, aggression, deceit and domination of others - everyone is the loser - and that also becomes a greater prominence accordingly.

Another is Decentralization
This is the newest and most subtle.
Through the invocation of spirit, evolutionary INDIVIDUATION is rapidly occurring.

Along with the trend towards greater globalization (even on proto, or local scale) people are increasingly seeing more opportunity to further, but (hopefully) creatively, constructively, benignly and progressively actualize the infinite potential of Spirit in totally unique personal ways. The uniqueness of individuals is a new force in the world because the basis of each life is an unlimited Spirit potential within. Human beings are not only becoming more creative, more unique, but combined with increased mobility and speed of communications makes them more collectively accessible.

This also includes increasing access to guidance internally, because of invocation of Spirit - but also availability of different traditions and practices, with inspiration and encouragement thereof. This is fast displacing spiritual guidance that previously required dense, geographically rooted strict and now restrictive social cohesion and conformity to external structures (like religion). In that regard, "like-minded people" can be the source of inspiration and encouragement - but that is still theoretical in terms of practiced and realization.

Decentralization is also causing conflict because those who do rely on conformity to old systems of established external structure for physical fulfillment and ‘protection’ feel threatened by what they do not understand, what they see as chaos and individual license - even in genuine and legitimate individual expressions of spiritually creative growth - and see the old ways and their security (really an illusion) disintegrating - even if those systems are becoming obsolete, no longer productive or functional - because they themselves haven't changed as the world around them has already changed and evolved into the new general context, making new solutions imperative (personal and collective), and this is what the intuitives are now exploring (which is threatening).

Conservatives presumably want to conserve what has worked - but at some point they are really preserving what no longer serves a legitimate function, and that then becomes detrimental and oppressive.

Progressives want to experiment with new solutions because they anticipate what is or will become obsolete, or they vision a possibly better more comprehensive solution to evolving problems as things change - but there is risk in both the untried and theoretical, as well as the abandonment of entire regimes of previously successful approaches.


Spiritually….
As a result of all of the above there is generally or increasingly really 'no where to run or hide'. There must be engagement. Solutions to problems both individual and social must be explored. Obsolescent structures individual and collective must be replaced. Spirituality no longer means: by myself, for myself - that’s now an impossibility - or else increasingly less viable going forward because of the evolving world context.

Spiritually aspiring people in the current milieu are realizing that isolation is not the same as solitude - and importantly that isolation and sequestration not only is not necessary, but that it removes a very prevalent vehicle for further opportunity for growth, service and transformation. And isolation denies the consequent collective transformation inherently available when spiritually creative individuals directly offer through various means, the results of their individual practice to others.

This isn’t to say that the monasteries are going to disappear tomorrow, but gradually the real monastery will be the sacred conscious presence of God in significantly larger numbers of people’s hearts, and as seen in others’ - wherever they are.



~ J

[lemex]

Unlike the cloistered spirituality of centuries past (monasteries, nunneries), modern spirituality has to do with the evolution of the soul via the path of moral self-development. One can only accomplish that via stepping into the world and interacting with other souls.

Question what about those living in monasteries best known in Eastern method of philosophy who did not believe in souls. What evolution were they looking for. We need to keep an open mind and be inclusive for the audience. Hence, it's not that.

[lemex]

It's not about finding other like-minded spiritualists. It's about interacting with all human souls in a loving way, understanding everyone is your mirror and can teach you something about yourself.

Yes, this path does require withdrawing from time to time in order to self-reflect, and to recharge as it requires a lot of conscious energy to work in the world this way. But that's an entirely different thing than shutting one's self off from the world period.

I agree, it should not be.

[lemex]

Shutting yourself in is a main stage of realizing yourself. The problem with getting out there is that few people share the same beliefs let alone talk about the same subject


Isn't it time to go against tradition. :smile:

[lemex]

We have to keep in mind what spirituality means, at least what it seems to me. I might be part of the us. I certainly in the past asked about living of the grid to. Been there, done that, thought that to. I also know in today's society you aren't always allowed to even because of such things as local ordnances. Spirituality really has become everything in modern terms, both what I want and you don't. It is not one thing. It is what you look for and the spiritual is not what another says to you, but what it is. The practice of loa for instance, practice of manifesting, creating, the practice of speaking to spirits/spirit guides, of finding them, practice of Astro travel or projection, or other aspects of it. These actually require not shutting or moving away but actual engagement and interaction with the environment in the presence of others that can be used. Keep in mind in the past one was not allowed to do, even observe such things but know you have the freedom to do what you wish. I just wanted to point that out. What one views spirituality should be about is not what another views it should be about. So sometimes, wouldn't withdraw actually be a hindrance. The spiritual world might be infinitely larger, it's not just one type. :hug3: I keep hearing being a good person, everyone does that. Everyone is that, everyone is as good as they can be.

[lemex]

There are some significant trends occurring presently, and they are somewhat interrelated.



Invocation
More people are consciously invoking Spirit into their lives.
Some are doing this to fulfill ignorant desires (even if unconsciously insincere in terms of professed intention).
Some are doing this to consciously, deliberately and importantly SINCERELY become truth-consciousness/God’s Will in action -
even if in rudimentary, nascent forms.

This alone is presently a source of much conflict in the world because although the same means is being employed (invocation of Spirit), and both may be essentially progressive within respective contexts of individual standard and therefore valid for each - in essence the 2 approaches are inherently antithetical.

Desire is progressive for those who were previously inertial.

Aspiration is progressive for those who are outgrowing and dissatisfied with the fulfillment of desire-life, but aspiring people see the goals of the previous set as regressive, because for them (been there, done that) it is.

And therein is a problem of 2 fundamentally different approaches: change circumstance externally or transcend circumstance internally.

Interestingly enough, monastics of by-gone days sought to accomplish the latter by exercising the former through isolation. They just saw it as much easier to accomplish spiritual goals by physically removing distraction by removing themselves from it.

Globalization
There is now a critical mass of people relative to available space (because of the fulfillment of some specific powerful desires, obviously). The physical world is physically limited - even if consciousness isn’t - Since Life is differentiated, and the resultant individuated lives are essentially One and therefore unavoidably interdependent, modern communications and transportation has exponentially accelerated those interdependent interactions, and globalization is an inevitable result.

This is also a source of conflict since it challenges physical isolation, prerogatives and previous ‘sovereignty’ of both individuals (my ego) and nation-states (tribal or collective ego), including the availability and sharing of resources, which also includes personal and resource mobility. It necessarily means that interactive cooperation becomes indispensable vs. ‘self-sufficient’ isolation (there is none), or action determined by power of advantage, aggression, deceit and domination of others - everyone is the loser - and that also becomes a greater prominence accordingly.

Another is Decentralization
This is the newest and most subtle.
Through the invocation of spirit, evolutionary INDIVIDUATION is rapidly occurring.

Along with the trend towards greater globalization (even on proto, or local scale) people are increasingly seeing more opportunity to further, but (hopefully) creatively, constructively, benignly and progressively actualize the infinite potential of Spirit in totally unique personal ways. The uniqueness of individuals is a new force in the world because the basis of each life is an unlimited Spirit potential within. Human beings are not only becoming more creative, more unique, but combined with increased mobility and speed of communications makes them more collectively accessible.

This also includes increasing access to guidance internally, because of invocation of Spirit - but also availability of different traditions and practices, with inspiration and encouragement thereof. This is fast displacing spiritual guidance that previously required dense, geographically rooted strict and now restrictive social cohesion and conformity to external structures (like religion). In that regard, "like-minded people" can be the source of inspiration and encouragement - but that is still theoretical in terms of practiced and realization.

Decentralization is also causing conflict because those who do rely on conformity to old systems of established external structure for physical fulfillment and ‘protection’ feel threatened by what they do not understand, what they see as chaos and individual license - even in genuine and legitimate individual expressions of spiritually creative growth - and see the old ways and their security (really an illusion) disintegrating - even if those systems are becoming obsolete, no longer productive or functional - because they themselves haven't changed as the world around them has already changed and evolved into the new general context, making new solutions imperative (personal and collective), and this is what the intuitives are now exploring (which is threatening).

Conservatives presumably want to conserve what has worked - but at some point they are really preserving what no longer serves a legitimate function, and that then becomes detrimental and oppressive.

Progressives want to experiment with new solutions because they anticipate what is or will become obsolete, or they vision a possibly better more comprehensive solution to evolving problems as things change - but there is risk in both the untried and theoretical, as well as the abandonment of entire regimes of previously successful approaches.


Spiritually….
As a result of all of the above there is generally or increasingly really 'no where to run or hide'. There must be engagement. Solutions to problems both individual and social must be explored. Obsolescent structures individual and collective must be replaced. Spirituality no longer means: by myself, for myself - that’s now an impossibility - or else increasingly less viable going forward because of the evolving world context.

Spiritually aspiring people in the current milieu are realizing that isolation is not the same as solitude - and importantly that isolation and sequestration not only is not necessary, but that it removes a very prevalent vehicle for further opportunity for growth, service and transformation. And isolation denies the consequent collective transformation inherently available when spiritually creative individuals directly offer through various means, the results of their individual practice to others.

This isn’t to say that the monasteries are going to disappear tomorrow, but gradually the real monastery will be the sacred conscious presence of God in significantly larger numbers of people’s hearts, and as seen in others’ - wherever they are.



~ J





Brilliant. Wishes I had your knowledge:smile: .

[Shivani Devi]

This seems to be a perfect thread for discussing what happened to me today.

I am usually totally reclusive in my spirituality and shut myself away with a very good reason for doing so. I am a totally meek and humble soul who would not hurt a fly...until...

I went out shopping today to get a few groceries and the car park was packed solid, due to school holidays and such..but I managed to find a car space and was grateful for the opportunity.

No sooner had I parked my car, a woman jumped out of the passenger side of the car looking for a car space in the adjacent aisle and started rushing towards me.

She was a feral, red-necked, mutant, inbred humanoid creature...wild with rage and possibly/probably high on meth...in her mid 40's early 50's...teeth missing, wild hair...shabby clothes...she started racing towards me and I immediately hit the 'central locking' mechanism.

As she approached, I could hear her barking like a rabid Alsatian... "I was gonna park thaar...I hope yer car blows up with you in it ya faaarking cuuunnn...faaaarrk yoouuuuu..." and with that, she starts pounding on all my windows with her fists and kicking the chassis of my vehicle leaving huge dents.

I sat there stunned and motionless. I dare not step outside my car, not out of fear for my own safety, but out of a direct fear for hers, for you see, the primal urge to kill another member of my species was bubbling deep inside me. I felt so much compassion for the woman I just wanted to put her out of her misery. I wanted to take a life in the name of all that was spiritual and holy and to do it in cold blood, whilst remaining totally calm and cool about it.

That 'primal part' of my brain kicked into gear and when it does, I totally dissociate and I am no longer there. Something takes over and it will not stop until my 'prey' no longer draws breath.

It has happened to me twice before when the switch just flipped and it took 4 grown men to drag me off a girl who threw the first punch and I tasted my own blood and my bloodlust grew...then I started laying into those men because they held me back from finishing the job, even though she was laying unconscious on the ground with most of her hair ripped out and chunks of flesh being bitten out and eaten by me. This happened after I was bashed and bullied by that girl at school until I could just take it no more...no MORE and teachers wouldn't intervene.

The second time, a woman who was a lesbian and interested in me tried to rape me. I had previously told her I wasn't gay and wasn't interested many times, but she became totally obsessive and wouldn't let up. Then she grabbed me and pinned me up against a wall and started having her way with me...then, it happened again. I almost killed her and it took a tazer on full charge to separate me and prevent me from finishing the job I had started.

Of course I do this all in the name of righteousness and in the name of God.

[CrystalSong]

Of course I do this all in the name of righteousness and in the name of God.


Are you serious?
Being Ironic?
Is this Satire?
Did you really almost shred 3 people and have zero qualms about killing in 'the name of righteousness and God'?
:icon_eek:
:confused:

[Shivani Devi]

Are you serious?
Being Ironic?
Is this Satire?
Did you really almost shred 3 people and have zero qualms about killing in 'the name of righteousness and God'?
:icon_eek:
:confused:
Yes. Self righteous or not, I am being totally serious here. If I were to shred that woman today, it would have been my own private 'Jihad' because that woman was so full of hatred, loathing and using such vile language I would honestly feel like I was doing the world a favour by ridding it of creatures such as these so others may live in peace and harmony. It is totally justified.

Hence why it's MUCH better for me to practice spirituality in total seclusion and isolate myself from the human scum and dregs of society which is a total anathema to peaceful existence.

[Shivani Devi]

You see, I refuse to forgive another person who attacks me while I turn the other cheek until they kill me first...yeah, let them rape me, bash me, destroy my car, abuse me with a "oh you poor, dear thing, didn't mummy hug you enough? I totally forgive you...bless you my child...here, have $100 and my parking space, have my body, destroy me." That's just a load of rubbish because it only condones their behaviour MORE! It's like "oh cool, by acting like an unruly banshee, I got that woman to give up her parking space to me - I should totally do more of that". You see?

The human species would become extinct quick smart!

I'm NO Jesus Christ! I am Aghori!

Big difference.

[Lorelyen]

This seems to be a perfect thread for discussing what happened to me today.

I am usually totally reclusive in my spirituality and shut myself away with a very good reason for doing so. I am a totally meek and humble soul who would not hurt a fly...until...

I went out shopping today to get a few groceries and the car park was packed solid, due to school holidays and such..but I managed to find a car space and was grateful for the opportunity.

No sooner had I parked my car, a woman jumped out of the passenger side of the car looking for a car space in the adjacent aisle and started rushing towards me.

She was a feral, red-necked, mutant, inbred humanoid creature...wild with rage and possibly/probably high on meth...in her mid 40's early 50's...teeth missing, wild hair...shabby clothes...she started racing towards me and I immediately hit the 'central locking' mechanism.

As she approached, I could hear her barking like a rabid Alsatian... "I was gonna park thaar...I hope yer car blows up with you in it ya faaarking cuuunnn...faaaarrk yoouuuuu..." and with that, she starts pounding on all my windows with her fists and kicking the chassis of my vehicle leaving huge dents.

I sat there stunned and motionless. I dare not step outside my car, not out of fear for my own safety, but out of a direct fear for hers, for you see, the primal urge to kill another member of my species was bubbling deep inside me. I felt so much compassion for the woman I just wanted to put her out of her misery. I wanted to take a life in the name of all that was spiritual and holy and to do it in cold blood, whilst remaining totally calm and cool about it.

That 'primal part' of my brain kicked into gear and when it does, I totally dissociate and I am no longer there. Something takes over and it will not stop until my 'prey' no longer draws breath.

It has happened to me twice before when the switch just flipped and it took 4 grown men to drag me off a girl who threw the first punch and I tasted my own blood and my bloodlust grew...then I started laying into those men because they held me back from finishing the job, even though she was laying unconscious on the ground with most of her hair ripped out and chunks of flesh being bitten out and eaten by me. This happened after I was bashed and bullied by that girl at school until I could just take it no more...no MORE and teachers wouldn't intervene.

The second time, a woman who was a lesbian and interested in me tried to rape me. I had previously told her I wasn't gay and wasn't interested many times, but she became totally obsessive and wouldn't let up. Then she grabbed me and pinned me up against a wall and started having her way with me...then, it happened again. I almost killed her and it took a tazer on full charge to separate me and prevent me from finishing the job I had started.

Of course I do this all in the name of righteousness and in the name of God.

Sounds good. I'm a great fan of retribution. Psalm 109 says it all!! Call on the Divine for some help if need be.

When it comes to self-defence against of the dregs of society, you have to be ready to let the adrenalin flow and instinct take over. Fight or flight? Depends on their size!
If people attack they deserve what they get. They have to be taught if they're incapable of learning for themselves.

:smile:

♥

[Shivani Devi]

Sounds good. I'm a great fan of retribution. Psalm 109 says it all!! Call on the Divine for some help if need be.

When it comes to self-defence against of the dregs of society, you have to be ready to let the adrenalin flow and instinct take over. Fight or flight? Depends on their size!
If people attack they deserve what they get. They have to be taught if they're incapable of learning for themselves.

:smile:

♥
Thank you so much for your wise words and understanding of this situation. I shouldn't really feel any need to justify myself here either. *reads Psalm 109*

Yes, there is only One who will judge me for retrubution and I stand ready to be thus judged (after I prayed for guidance from Him in the first place).

[peteyzen]

Good to see life knocking the knobs and excrescences off our characters lol.
But this is life, it teaches us, it shows us where we need more work, it holds a mirror up to us and says..`this is where you are`, then we know what we need to improve, as long as we look at our behaviour. Also, we all have karma to pay, life allows us to pay that off too.

[Shivani Devi]

Good to see life knocking the knobs and excrescences off our characters lol.
But this is life, it teaches us, it shows us where we need more work, it holds a mirror up to us and says..`this is where you are`, then we know what we need to improve, as long as we look at our behaviour. Also, we all have karma to pay, life allows us to pay that off too.
Yeah, I guess we all need to learn how to take all the good with all the bad.

Just the other day when I was out, I had a huge diamond python placed around my neck and went into bliss...today when I was out, I almost became fully possessed by Bhairava and I had to say "down boy...sit...chill...we'll just wait until Kali finishes Her little dance and tires of playing with us" (which she did after about 5 minutes).

So then I headed off to the ATM...9 people were in line waiting to use it and I was like "oh hell...this sucks" so I decided it was totally worth the $2 fee to use another bank's ATM over waiting in line for half an hour to use my own bank's one. I was like "aha! take THAT stupid universe". lol

Sometimes when life holds the mirror up, you don't see where you need to improve and that sorta comes with hindsight days/weeks later and you're like "oh yeah...about THAT..."

Then the other day, I saw an albatross...we don't get many/if any of those in Australia and my mother was like "would you look at that? it's an albatross!" and I started with "...instead of the cross, an albatross about my neck was hung...'twas an ancient mariner and he stoppest one in three...by his long grey beard and glittering eye...wherefore stoppest thou me?...The bridegroom's doors are opened wide and I am next of kin...the guests are met, the feast is set..mayest hear the merry din..."

My mother was like "ah yes, the Rime of the Ancient Mariner...I remember that...who wrote it, do you know?" and I was like "of course I do! it was Geoffrey Chaucer" and about 15 seconds later I heard, in my head, a huge laugh...and the words; "you think you are SO smart, don't you? It was Samuel Taylor Coleridge...silly you!"...so, no wonder I give the universe hell. :biggrin:

Suffice to say I told mum and apologised humbly for my ignorance in the matter.

[Lorelyen]

A great many people think that to grow spiritually they have to shut off from life. recently I read the following discourse from Sai baba in which he is saying to get out in society and practice your spirituality in amongst others which I like, What do others think?
Growing spiritually by shutting yourself in? Not me, no, though there are times when certain practices need privacy or as near a silent backdrop as one can get.

To me growing spiritually is living it in the material world thus making it a little less material. Difficult to give examples because it encompasses everything and grows as one refines
- materialism is abandoned (as: acquisition for acquisition's sake which doesn't mean you don't spend merely to decorate your life, difference is you choose to do it instead of being manipulated by the consumerist marketeers);
- your attitude toward people is far more open and accepting - which doesn't mean your guard shouldn't go up in the face of adversity;
- you balance the rational and emotions. Much emotional claptrap exists because of the pressures and mores of our culture. Once you reach above... balance.

`Shutting yourself in a room and offering incense and flowers to a picture or image of God, and singing or reciting His glory are very poor substitutes for the discipline that will liberate you from ignorance.
Don't be too sure. Our offerings and observances are MILES from a poor substitute and sometimes take a huge amount of discipline, as do many practices that some students take years to master. Likewise, offering up a petition to who- or what-ever comes from the heart, with immense passion if it's to reach its target. Learn from Abramelin! "Inflame yourself with prayer!" It's isn't something learned from a book and recited. Any sorceress can tell you that. Of course we shut ourselves in rooms to do this. It's a private communion - and no different from shutting myself in my flat to work at creative stuff or do my tax accounts, or practice music. These things don't get done with likely disturbance around.

All beings are images of God; all men are His pictures; then, why shut yourselves in? All creation is marching on a pilgrimage to Him; why then behave as if you are trekking it alone? You believe that the time spent in church or temple or the domestic shrine in adoration and in ritual worship is devoted to God and the rest is spent for other purposes. But you cannot demarcate and delimit the realms of God and man like that. God is ever with you everywhere. Vasudheva sarvamidham - All this is God. Society is the school where this lesson is taught to those who earnestly seek.`

Well, you've said it right, there. The pragmatists among us go out and be spiritual - be aloof from the system of things, from social conditioning, from economic demands (beyond what you need to survive), from the petty squabbles of the uninitiated and unaware; from the glitter of false spiritual propositions....while still paying lip service enough to navigate our ways through. We engage. We drive our own lives.
Regard people as the individuals they are (or could be if they woke up) pay respect to Nature, if you eat meat, thank the animal with deep reverence for surrendering its life so you can eat. Spread your psychic largesse throughout the cosmosphere - and think about how you can get to what you should have been all along and still aren't.

I dance my way through my time here.....

♥

[Shivani Devi]

There is also something these 'inner voices' wish to speak of about this topic.

When one is a neophyte or just starting a spiritual practice, seclusion is often recommended to 'ground oneself' in the faith and to avoid those loud and aggressive people who are vexations to the spirit (thanks Desiderata).

In many Christian traditions and also in many Hindu ones, fellowship or satsanga (mixing with like-minded souls) as opposed to mixing with those outside the faith or who have no faith at all is seen as a method of fully indoctrinating oneself into the practice and becoming 'brainwashed' (albeit positively) into the religion until the neophyte advances spiritually so that no external conditions can affect or absolve the faith.

Often, when one is floundering spiritually in the external environment, a sabbatical is required to regain the connection to Source (and I must admit right now that a week staring at my navel in vipassana meditation was not long enough). lol

Then there are those of us who cannot meditate in a group because all it takes is one cough, sneeze or noise from another to fully snap us out of it...I also must admit, I am one of those and doing meditation in a group setting is absolute torture for me...I'd just be going under and then someone always freaking coughs right when I have reached the state of ajna awareness...and then I am back to square one again...and it's rinse and repeat...and I'm sure the universe does that just to tick me off...

`Shutting yourself in a room and offering incense and flowers to a picture or image of God, and singing or reciting His glory are very poor substitutes for the discipline that will liberate you from ignorance.Oh yeah, I look at that as being "it's better just to do that than to do absolutely nothing at all" for at least you're one rung up in the ladder where 'ignorance' is at the very bottom.

...unless of course, you are a Bhakti Yogi. =)

[Baile]

The pragmatists among us go out and be spiritual -
♥Took a few pages but we got to the truth. :smile:

[blackraven]

Also, how else does life grind off our rough edges if we hide away from it.

Brilliant! :smile:

[CrystalSong]

Yes. Self righteous or not, I am being totally serious here. If I were to shred that woman today, it would have been my own private 'Jihad' because that woman was so full of hatred, loathing and using such vile language I would honestly feel like I was doing the world a favour by ridding it of creatures such as these so others may live in peace and harmony. It is totally justified.

Hence why it's MUCH better for me to practice spirituality in total seclusion and isolate myself from the human scum and dregs of society which is a total anathema to peaceful existence.


Ah okay, it can be so hard to tell on the internet sometimes. :tongue:
You should of course defend yourself if you are under attack, I wasn't implying otherwise.

[7luminaries]

It's only ever about the degree of consciousness with which we react to the world as we see and experience it. The world can be adversarial, sure. And the higher response is one accepts and loves the world nevertheless. And let's be clear, we're not speaking of the "world." The world in fact is faultless and perfect. Rather, we're identifying the adversarial actions of human beings. And here's where religion has wisdom: "But I tell you, love your enemies and pray for those who persecute you."

It all comes down to choice. One can choose to battle life and face adversity with enmity and aggression, or choose to embrace even the difficult aspects of life with love, acceptance and a peaceful heart.

Baile, I agree it's good to embrace what is, absolutely. I actually firmly agree that the best response to hatred is love and acceptance.

But you're switching things up. I'm saying you can be and do all this, with love and acceptance, and still clearly see the world for what (it) is. In fact, I believe that in order for any act of love to mean anything to me in the sense of being aware and consciously chosen (IMO), it absolutely requires that I acknowledge the hostility or aggression or predation of what is, wherever I find it. Likewise, that may include in many cases being met with hostility or aggression regardless of the love you are.

It is both ok and good and true to acknowledge that difference in this now moment...that most of humanity are not on the same page of lovingkindness. Moreover, I would even say it is necessary to acknowledge this. So that we can all consciously make better choices in future wherever we are able.

It simply is what is. That in no way means that one should alter who he or she is to meet others in a low or vile place, simply because they will not meet you in a place of lovingkindness. They are equal to you and you cannot (and nor should you) either ignore, mislabel, deny, or pretend that they are elsewhere NOR that you can wish them further along simply by offering kindness and love. That act of acceptance or rejection in each moment is theirs by divine right, equal to your own. And I prefer very firmly to live grounded in the what is, regardless of the all the bad and the ugly that accompany the good.

I'm saying that what you say here about how to be and what I'm saying about what is right now don't preclude one another. My input was purely factual, and (equally important) also that honestly the individual has no effect on others at all, necessarily, aside from what they and perhaps Grace choose to receive or allow in on some level.

Life is a result of engagement and interaction and is never a one-sided conveyance built upon well wishes. Now if a community come together to deliver prayer or well wishes, that's another thing entirely but ultimately still requires individual acceptance of that offering.

As to the OP...I say engage whenever possible and get away whenever necessary :wink:

Peace & blessings all :hug3:
7L

[H:O:R:A:C:E]

CrystalSong: You should of course defend yourself if you are under attack, I wasn't implying otherwise.
wowsers, this is your final thought on the subject?

[iamthat]

Yes. Self righteous or not, I am being totally serious here. If I were to shred that woman today, it would have been my own private 'Jihad' because that woman was so full of hatred, loathing and using such vile language I would honestly feel like I was doing the world a favour by ridding it of creatures such as these so others may live in peace and harmony. It is totally justified.

Hence why it's MUCH better for me to practice spirituality in total seclusion and isolate myself from the human scum and dregs of society which is a total anathema to peaceful existence.

Hmmm. Peaceful existence comes from within.

Perhaps you need to ask yourself what is it within you which attracts these situations and these people into your life? Perhaps all these people who are full of hatred and loathing are simply reflections of yourself.

So by all means do your spiritual practice in total seclusion, but it sounds as if you are at war with yourself. Where is the peace?

Peace.

[ocean breeze]

Do both.

.....

[CrystalSong]

wowsers, this is your final thought on the subject?
They might as well be, as my desire for the original poster to get insights on his/her question is greater than my desire to conversationally continue down other tracks. :)

[Ariaecheflame]

Do both.

.....

I humbly agree :)

I've recently started getting out and about after almost a lifetime of a hermitude kind of life. . . I was not socialised as a child and had a very strange isolated upbringing and carried that isolation through until now.

Have been "dipping my toes in" recently and have made this massive realisation that the I feel as though the whole world has left me behind and I am left spinning in a whirlwind now. It feels very surreal and I often feel quite out of it and spacey as I re-enter the world socially.

I actually would not encourage almost total withdrawal like I did. I try to get out even on my hermit days now even if I just sit in a coffee shop around other people.
We are an inter-dependant species and we live in an inter-dependant reality.
one of the tactics alot of cults use is social isolation, they often convince the members to go against their human nature and assume "independence" from the outside world. It is very powerful and it doesn't take very long to re-wire the brain making it difficult later to actually participate effectively in society later.

I have always been quite introverted and cannot be completely immersed in connection all the time but I have been finding ways which I can remain connected while still maintaining my quiet inner space while others exist around me. The more I do this actually, the happier I become in more frequent contact with others.

It seems to- like my generation and the social issues which we face are having to really pull together again and co-create communities based more strongly on resources sharing and inter-dependance. It is a move further away from the isolation of extreme capitalism and it seems to becoming necessary for people to survive.
There is also an emergence of introverts, we are becoming more visible in society and less mis-understood. There is a bit of a revival going on in that society as a whole is starting to see our strengths and needs are becoming more appreciated.

I think that there is room for both catering for the needs for individual space as well as getting out there and I actually think that communities are starting to understand the needs of introverts more. . . so hopefully that will start to translate as a better balance for everyone.

[Shivani Devi]

Hmmm. Peaceful existence comes from within.

Perhaps you need to ask yourself what is it within you which attracts these situations and these people into your life? Perhaps all these people who are full of hatred and loathing are simply reflections of yourself.

So by all means do your spiritual practice in total seclusion, but it sounds as if you are at war with yourself. Where is the peace?

Peace.Nope.

I live in a very poor suburb full of government housing slums where ice is rife, stabbings occur at the rate of 3-4 per day, I am surrounded by domestic violence and people don't care about themselves let alone, each other. I've even had my wheelie bin stolen for the 4th time this year. *sigh*

I don't attract this any more than I cannot afford to live anywhere else because I don't have any money myself and I have tried 'attracting money' but if it were that easy, everybody would be able to do it, so no, I am not a believer in the whole 'we attract things to ourselves' theory.

The only thing I can think of in that regard, is that I sometimes get frustrated myself - only for a few moments, if somebody beats me to a parking space, but I'll never act on it and I'll forget about it soon after. So, maybe this incident was showing me that I may as well act on it and do what she did, because I had the thought in the first place and in the spiritual sense, there's no difference between thought and action.

[Badcopyinc]

Nope.

I live in a very poor suburb full of government housing slums where ice is rife, stabbings occur at the rate of 3-4 per day, I am surrounded by domestic violence and people don't care about themselves let alone, each other. I've even had my wheelie bin stolen for the 4th time this year. *sigh*

I don't attract this any more than I cannot afford to live anywhere else because I don't have any money myself and I have tried 'attracting money' but if it were that easy, everybody would be able to do it, so no, I am not a believer in the whole 'we attract things to ourselves' theory.

The only thing I can think of in that regard, is that I sometimes get frustrated myself - only for a few moments, if somebody beats me to a parking space, but I'll never act on it and I'll forget about it soon after. So, maybe this incident was showing me that I may as well act on it and do what she did, because I had the thought in the first place and in the spiritual sense, there's no difference between thought and action.

You're proclaiming you can't attract money. You're proclaiming that you don't have money. You're proclaiming that you get robbed. Your proclaiming that your world and reality is bleak and dark and full of death and crime and low vibration people. All that you have just said is the exact thing you don't believe in. You're are attracting more of everything you just spoke of. And now you have everyone reading this post who doesn't know better feeling for your situation therefore also adding more energy to making your reality that much more of exactly what you proclaimed.

How can I not believe in this universal truth that what you believe what you give energy to grows.

[Sugar-n-Spice]

There are many different paths to the same destination

[Shivani Devi]

You're proclaiming you can't attract money. You're proclaiming that you don't have money. You're proclaiming that you get robbed. Your proclaiming that your world and reality is bleak and dark and full of death and crime and low vibration people. All that you have just said is the exact thing you don't believe in. You're are attracting more of everything you just spoke of. And now you have everyone reading this post who doesn't know better feeling for your situation therefore also adding more energy to making your reality that much more of exactly what you proclaimed.

How can I not believe in this universal truth that what you believe what you give energy to grows.
Okay, if you are so sure about it, please tell how I am attracting all these people into my life that were here before I ever moved in to the area? You still haven't convinced me of anything here, so kindly prove your words.

Also, if I say "today I am going to find $50 on the ground" like I have said and affirmed a million times over, how come I haven't found $50 on the ground in the whole 20+ years I have been making that affirmation, almost ten times a week?

I'm not saying I don't believe in the fact I live in the 'crime capital' of the state, all I am saying is I don't attract such people to me. Please re-read my previous reply.

So, what if it is my KARMA to be attacked by that woman? Then it would have happened REGARDLESS of whether I 'attracted it' or not. One cannot believe in Karma and LoA simultaneously without umpteen conundrums all arising simultaneously.

[peteyzen]

Both Karma and law of attraction are universal laws. They work hand in hand within the reference of time.
If you have karma to pay and are working using the law of attraction to get money, the two laws will work together to create the correct outcome based on your previous karma and your current intent. Karma is absolute and utterly accurate but on the same note, no effort is ever wasted either.

[Baile]

I'm not saying I don't believe in the fact I live in the 'crime capital' of the state, all I am saying is I don't attract such people to me.What you described has nothing to do with karma or LOA. You are choosing to live in an area where 3-4 stabbings happen each day. So yes of course, that is what your reality will consist of. If you want a different reality, move to a better part of the city. Or move out of the city period, that would be my advice. Correct, you don't attract these bad people to you via karma. In your case, they're naturally all around you because you choose to live where they live. Not having the money is beside the point, has nothing to do with any of this. It just means you're stuck until your priorities and/or finances change.

Similar to me in that one of my kayaks (my nice one) has a hole in the bottom. I don't have the money to buy another. So I'm faced with this reality: use it and sink. That's my "karmic" reality, and I'm stuck with it until I shift my spending priorities, and start putting money away for a new one. But the last thing I would ever think of doing is try and "attract" a new kayak. For me, it's purely practical, and all up to me and my spending decisions.

Karma is what we do, what we choose. It is the consequence of our life choices. You are choosing to live there. Therefore your karma is to live in the vicinity of sketchy people. And it's here I disagree with petezen's last post. He describes (projects) karma to be some kind of force or law that corrects the things we've supposedly done wrong. No, we are the ones who correct what we do. Karma is simply the result that happens when we make certain choices. And by seeing the results of those choices (our karma) we can then know what we wish to do and/or need to correct, in order to improve things and make things better.

[Greenslade]

So, what if it is my KARMA to be attacked by that woman? Then it would have happened REGARDLESS of whether I 'attracted it' or not. One cannot believe in Karma and LoA simultaneously without umpteen conundrums all arising simultaneously.Karma is simply cause and effect, nothing more. And before anyone says anything to the contrary, good and bad are subjective and choices, not Universal laws. And there is no time, and nobody making a sky-daddy judgement call.

The Law of Attraction isn't based on what you think, it's based on who you are, essentially - your core frequencies. The Universe is a reflection of you so if you are in conflict with yourself that's how the Universe will reflect back at you. If you are in conflict inside then the LoA will attract conflict to you, I'm guessing you don't absolutely Love the place you're in?

Affirmations are counter-intuitive, when you make them you're actually declaring your lack (in this case of money); that is where your frequencies are. LoA kicks in and you attract the lack.

Gandhi said "You have to become the changes you want to see" and this is what it all hinges on. You have to become those changes. You can Live in the crime capital of the state but you don't have to be a willing victim of your surroundings. You can find ways to make it work for you short-term, which will start attracting ways in which the Universe will work with you.

Oh, and forget the conundrums, if it doesn't serve you then drop it. Drop karma and LoA if they don't make sense and do what the Life coaches have been saying for long enough. Which, incidentally, is the same as Gandhi.

[peteyzen]

Hi Baille, I am sorry I wasn`t clear in my description of Karma, I did not mean you to think it was a right or wrong thing, Karma is a boomerang, for each intention we put out, we get back. there is no right or wrong in it, quite simply we get back what we put out. I hope that is clearer. I was trying to explain how both Law of attraction and karma are interrelated and work together. when I said `pay back` I simply meant; whatever karma we have created returns to us, the `pay back` might be money because we were kind in the past or love, because we loved in the past, or it might be less benevolent depending on our actions.

[Badcopyinc]

Okay, if you are so sure about it, please tell how I am attracting all these people into my life that were here before I ever moved in to the area? You still haven't convinced me of anything here, so kindly prove your words.
You are proving to yourself its existence by all the things you said. two ways. Your current situation is a result of your past thought and actions. (You're there so you must have had thoughts that matched the frequency of what your currently experiencing.) the other is You're words are of a low frequency when you discuss your situation. You're creating that in your future by saying this. I cannot make you see something if you think the world can only be viewed from your perspective. this is something only you can prove right or wrong by introspection on what you have thought said and did to wind up where your at.

Also, if I say "today I am going to find $50 on the ground" like I have said and affirmed a million times over, how come I haven't found $50 on the ground in the whole 20+ years I have been making that affirmation, almost ten times a week?
You're confirming this again. You're using your failure at attracting a $50 spot as an example of evidence almost as if you never fully expected it to show up. almost as if you need proof like you ask for here of its authenticity. that doubt is counterproductive in manifesting that $50.

I'm not saying I don't believe in the fact I live in the 'crime capital' of the state, all I am saying is I don't attract such people to me. Please re-read my previous reply.
When you focus on the bad in your environment it causes a reaction in you a feeling or string of feelings. "I need to move" "why do people have to be like this" "why don't i have more money to move" "why does the world hate me" "what did i do in a past life to deserve this" All those statements are creating more situations to have that same feeling. those same reactions and thoughts again.

So, what if it is my KARMA to be attacked by that woman? Then it would have happened REGARDLESS of whether I 'attracted it' or not. One cannot believe in Karma and LOA simultaneously without umpteen conundrums all arising simultaneously.
You and your thoughts matched the frequency of the event. karma can be viewed as the LOA. As religion and faith in the universe. in oneself. faith in a higher power. You think and do bad. you'll receive that which matches the frequency of your thoughts and actions. you have faith everything will be ok and the world is a beautiful place then you'll receive just that in return. a new path will always open if you fully embrace your own power.

Your asking me to prove to you that faith is real. that god is real. that the universal energy and vibrations are real. your asking me to prove to you that you have the power to control your life. these are all things only you can prove to yourself.

Whats the worst that can happen by actually believing? you'll be given the same thing you're already receiving? the best possible outcome is you'll find a $50 and a opportunity to move and get paid more will show up out of no where. and from that moment on you'll start to believe more and more. growing your power to manifest your life consciously.

[peteyzen]

You and your thoughts matched the frequency of the event. karma can be viewed as the LOA. As religion and faith in the universe. in oneself. faith in a higher power. You think and do bad. you'll receive that which matches the frequency of your thoughts and actions. you have faith everything will be ok and the world is a beautiful place then you'll receive just that in return. a new path will always open if you fully embrace your own power.
.

My understanding (and it may be wrong) is that LOA and karma are not the same. You see, you can be sending out all of the right vibes thinking good things and acting well and life can still pull the rug from under you. The reason this happens is because of karma. Contrarily a man can be horrible, a bully , mean and uncaring and suddenly win the lottery, this again is his karma returning. His present actions are creating, shall we say, unskillfull karma, but actions from his previous incarnations which were more skillfull allowed him to receive the lottery win. LOA and karma are inter related, but not I think the same thing.

[Badcopyinc]

My understanding (and it may be wrong) is that LOA and karma are not the same. You see, you can be sending out all of the right vibes thinking good things and acting well and life can still pull the rug from under you. The reason this happens is because of karma. Contrarily a man can be horrible, a bully , mean and uncaring and suddenly win the lottery, this again is his karma returning. His present actions are creating, shall we say, unskillfull karma, but actions from his previous incarnations which were more skillfull allowed him to receive the lottery win. LOA and karma are inter related, but not I think the same thing.

I see the logic in this and I agree. But I also see the other side. That rug could be pulled because deep down he needs to learn a lesson maybe his thoughts and actions from the previous are just now catching up. Maybe his reasoning for sending out all the right vibes are from a negative space. I have experienced doing what you said. And have had the rug pulled out from me. But the reason why the rug was pulled from me was because my vibes and thoughts although that of good nature caused me to see the fault in others and that they were on a lower frequency. Almost ego causing me to think I'm somehow better than those surrounding me. And when the rug was pulled I investigated my past action and the event that transpired and realized my arrogance led me to the lesson that I'm not better than another. Be it another that is feeding into negative. or another that is farther ahead on the path of enlightenment.

And as far as winning the lottery again I'm open to that being a truth about past live actions. But I'm also open to the thought that the result of him winning the lottery may bring more heartache and stress therefore matching his vibrations. We've read it countless times of one winning the lottery and then being bankrupt and worse of then before. Proving that karma was teaching that person a lesson or that person vibrated so much in that negative state that it manifested a more powerful negative reality.

[Greenslade]

You see, you can be sending out all of the right vibes thinking good things and acting well and life can still pull the rug from under you. The reason this happens is because of karma. But aren't we here to learn the lessons, grow Spiritually yadda yadda???? Perhaps what we're attracting there is the lesson that we shouldn't get too comfortable and complacent, that despite how good we think we are the Universe might have other ideas. Isn't Spiritual development a 'good thing', or do we mean bad Karma is what we don't like?

With the lottery win, do you mean Karma as in a Life's Purpose/Soul Agreement/Karmic Obligation? Because that's what a lottery win would be, nothing to do with LoA because that would have already been in his reality anyway in a 'meant to be'/Destiny way.

[Baile]

Karma: When I choose to live in a bad neighborhood, the "karmic" consequences of my choice may well be that items in my yard get stolen. Karma is neither bad nor good; it is neutral. On the other hand, that which results from our choices vary from good to bad, depending upon what we've chosen for ourselves.

LOA: I "attract" a better place to live by making the decision to spend part of each day looking for places to rent in better neighborhoods. And yes, there is most definitely an element of "like attracts like" in all this. If I have a positive attitude, if I believe I deserve good things, if I believe life is bountiful and Spirit is benevolent, then I will attract all of that. My positive approach will yield positive results.

Spiritual anything ultimately has to do with soul-spirit activity. Both karma and LOA then have to do with our very human choices, our intentions and our actions.

[peteyzen]

`Both karma and LOA then have to do with our very human choices, our intentions and our actions`.
Yes.

[peteyzen]

`And as far as winning the lottery again I'm open to that being a truth about past live actions. But I'm also open to the thought that the result of him winning the lottery may bring more heartache and stress therefore matching his vibrations. We've read it countless times of one winning the lottery and then being bankrupt and worse of then before. Proving that karma was teaching that person a lesson or that person vibrated so much in that negative state that it manifested a more powerful negative reality.`
yes, exactly! As has been mentioned earlier, its easy to see the inter relationship between karma and LOA

[Badcopyinc]

Karma: When I choose to live in a bad neighborhood, the "karmic" consequences of my choice may well be that items in my yard get stolen. Karma is neither bad nor good; it is neutral. On the other hand, that which results from our choices vary from good to bad, depending upon what we've chosen for ourselves.

LOA: I "attract" a better place to live by making the decision to spend part of each day looking for places to rent in better neighborhoods. And yes, there is most definitely an element of "like attracts like" in all this. If I have a positive attitude, if I believe I deserve good things, if I believe life is bountiful and Spirit is benevolent, then I will attract all of that. My positive approach will yield positive results.

Spiritual anything ultimately has to do with soul-spirit activity. Both karma and LOA then have to do with our very human choices, our intentions and our actions.

yes what i was saying.

its like a quote on religion i read yesterday.

OMNISM The belief that no religion is truth. But that truth can be found in them all.

this is exactly the same thing i was saying earlier. Vibrate high physically mentally and spiritually and you will have that served as a reality by your personal belief.

Isn't this what all truths lead to? maybe I'm wrong. but if being wrong means my life is bountiful and peaceful then i love how wrong i am right now.

[Shivani Devi]

You are proving to yourself its existence by all the things you said. two ways. Your current situation is a result of your past thought and actions. (You're there so you must have had thoughts that matched the frequency of what your currently experiencing.) the other is You're words are of a low frequency when you discuss your situation. You're creating that in your future by saying this. I cannot make you see something if you think the world can only be viewed from your perspective. this is something only you can prove right or wrong by introspection on what you have thought said and did to wind up where your at.


You're confirming this again. You're using your failure at attracting a $50 spot as an example of evidence almost as if you never fully expected it to show up. almost as if you need proof like you ask for here of its authenticity. that doubt is counterproductive in manifesting that $50.


When you focus on the bad in your environment it causes a reaction in you a feeling or string of feelings. "I need to move" "why do people have to be like this" "why don't i have more money to move" "why does the world hate me" "what did i do in a past life to deserve this" All those statements are creating more situations to have that same feeling. those same reactions and thoughts again.


You and your thoughts matched the frequency of the event. karma can be viewed as the LOA. As religion and faith in the universe. in oneself. faith in a higher power. You think and do bad. you'll receive that which matches the frequency of your thoughts and actions. you have faith everything will be ok and the world is a beautiful place then you'll receive just that in return. a new path will always open if you fully embrace your own power.

Your asking me to prove to you that faith is real. that god is real. that the universal energy and vibrations are real. your asking me to prove to you that you have the power to control your life. these are all things only you can prove to yourself.

Whats the worst that can happen by actually believing? you'll be given the same thing you're already receiving? the best possible outcome is you'll find a $50 and a opportunity to move and get paid more will show up out of no where. and from that moment on you'll start to believe more and more. growing your power to manifest your life consciously.The thing is though, 'why does the world hate me' doesn't even enter into it.

What's to even say that either/neither are right or wrong here?

I'm still sticking to 'what I proved to myself' in that next time somebody beats me to a parking space, I shall remember this moment.

Sometimes/often people are also looking for lessons that weren't even taught in the first place.

[Badcopyinc]

The thing is though, 'why does the world hate me' doesn't even enter into it.

What's to even say that either/neither are right or wrong here?

I'm still sticking to 'what I proved to myself' in that next time somebody beats me to a parking space, I shall remember this moment.

Sometimes/often people are also looking for lessons that weren't even taught in the first place.

were both right. what you believe will be real. you will keep experiencing what you believe. we are both saying the same thing just using a label as the argument.

[Shivani Devi]

were both right. what you believe will be real. you will keep experiencing what you believe. we are both saying the same thing just using a label as the argument.
Yes, if I believe in Shiva, I will keep experiencing Shiva, truth!

How does one ever live in the external world like that though? one must relate on a human level somehow to exist on this plane, correct?

Also, I can be grateful that at least I have a comfy bed and hot running water because I do not choose to live here. It's either here, or in the gutter in a country town, so yeah, things could be worse...they could also be a whole lot bloody better too, but they could be worse.

[Shivani Devi]

I guess I learn my lessons in totally different ways.

When I went to visit my brother today, his best friend also came to visit at the same time.

While we sat around drinking coffee, his friend related a story...

A few years ago, he lived smack bang next to a meth lab...there were wild parties, fights up til 3am...they would steal cars and burn them in their yard, throw rocks through his windows...steal stuff from his yard and he put up with it for years...

He tried phoning the police, the council and all, but they wouldn't get involved due to ethnicity issues.

One night it was 2am, he was slightly inebriated and of course, hip-hop music was blaring from their stereo all over the neighbourhood...so he went into his garage, got out a petrol can full of petrol and a box of matches and went "RIGHT! Let's blow THEIR car up and see how they like it".

As he stood next to their car in the pitch black, getting up the nerve to do the act, he felt a heavy hand on his shoulder and his immediate thought was "right! you caught me in the act...stab/kill me now, I am ready"

He turned around only to notice that the 'hand' was the muzzle of a stray horse known to wander the streets at night...yeah, a bloody horse, looking over his shoulder going "watcha doin' there?"

He immediately dropped the matches and petrol tin, put his arms around the neck of the horse and bawled his eyes out.

The horse just stood still going "yeah, I know...I know...let it out".

He told me that he went home and cried solidly for a week and not long after that, his neighbours were evicted.

Lesson learned.

[H:O:R:A:C:E]

They might as well be, as my desire for the original poster to get insights on his/her question is greater than my desire to conversationally continue down other tracks. :)
blessings to you.
i could argue that that 'side track' conversation somehow relates to the OP of
"shutting away or getting out there" (perhaps in ways unknown to conscious
understanding), or that addressing a (theoretical) willful determination to cause
injury to another person is something that takes precedence over philosophical
discussions... but i will not argue.
i yield.
with love,
H:O:R:A:C:E

[CrystalSong]

And you would most likely be right H:O:R:A:C:E :)
So I will add something more directly to our OP.

Sometimes it is time to get out, meet, greet, make friends, cultivate relationship with spring blooming inside us.
Sometime it is time to frolic in the Summer sun in deep connection with all that is around us.
Sometimes it is time to harvest the fruits of your labors, hold space for those who are trodding paths you've already been down and learned from - being the wise loving one for another.
Sometimes it is the time to withdraw into the silence and softness of winter, gathering our energies around us, renewing ourselves for when our spring blooms again.

Know thyself, know what personal season you are in and honor it. Do not linger too long in any one season, for each has its wisdom and knowledge. Life is not a stagnant straight lined thing instead it is every changing. Change and flow with your own unique internal seasons.