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fox22
30-06-2017, 02:55 AM
i hold a belief in "soul contracts".

that we choose our lives before we are born, and that every problem and situation we are put in shapes us in some form.

"if we wish to learn love, we will be shown hate. if we wish to learn patience, we will not be shown zen masters."

i like many others have had the fortunate misfortune of a really awful situation. i try not to pay too much worry to it because i believe i wouldn't be put in these awful situations if i couldn't come out of it. i believe that my soul chose all of these things for me, and that theres better at the end of it. that i'm here to learn from it.

so by this way of thinking what are rich/privileged people here to possibly learn?

i try to wrap my head around it, but i can't.

i have a friend who complains about the tiniest of things, like how he's worried if his mom will put money in his (already generously filled) bank account or not, while i and others are here worrying if we're going to be evicted from our run down trailers or not lol.

they have everything so easy, and you can't tell me not to judge this person by what "seems", that i may not know what he's going through, because trust me, he tells me everything, and it's a headache that he even thinks small things such as "oh my god my brothers left dishes in the sink" count for a crisis situation. his problems seem so minuscule and nothing compared to what i or others deal with, he has so much privilege, money, he has a loving family, and he's living in an expensive apartment in San Fransisco for FREE because it's being paid by his family. he doesn't have to worry about college, because his family is paying for his 50k a year tuition. it doesn't put a dent in their wallets. he gets everything he wants just by asking for it. he wants to get a job for the "aesthetic" of it, and i'm working to put bread on the table.

he also brags a lot even though he knows how ****ty everything is for me, and he complains and says he likes complaining to me because even though i have worse situations i don't get angry at him for being upset with how things are for him.

and i try to be patient, honestly, but sometimes it hurts :\

everything seems so easy for him, and i can't relate at all, and it hurts my head just trying to think what a person as privileged and easy-living as he could possibly be here to learn.

he's young, handsome, living in the city without his parents, getting weekly allowances from his family so he can just stay home and work on his art or his body, his biggest problems would be blessings to other people. ( like wow i'm losing little muscle in my legs today this is terrible )

he says about his allowances, "honestly i don't need that much money, i could have $200 a month and that'd be enough and i'd be happy."

which is great and all but most people need to budget 2k a month or more, especially living in just the LOWER INCOME sides of the bay area(near SF).

people WISH they were as privileged to complain about how dry their salad is.
he honestly doesn't understand that some people need more than 200 to live in his area lol because everything's being paid for for him.

if you want to learn riches, you'll be shown poverty.
so if he's rich, what is he here to learn?
if he has love and stability, what is he to learn from that?

i know i should be focusing on myself and on my journey, and i guess it's not my business but it makes me feel all sorts of bad things to think about how tipped the scales could be. we have similar goals, and it seems so easy for him that he doesn't have to work 13 hours a day while i do, he can live as leisurely as he wants while i have to put in a bit more effort. it must be nice to be able to work out all day and make power smoothies and laze around and then work on making music and live completely free and unpaid for and STILL find things to complain about.

maybe some people are here just to live life and not learn anything if this is the case.

MicroMacro
30-06-2017, 07:38 AM
i hold a belief in "soul contracts".

i like many others have had the fortunate misfortune of a really awful situation. i try not to pay too much worry to it because i believe i wouldn't be put in these awful situations if i couldn't come out of it.

so by this way of thinking what are rich/privileged people here to possibly learn?

i try to wrap my head around it, but i can't.

i have a friend who complains about the tiniest of things, ...

if you want to learn riches, you'll be shown poverty.
so if he's rich, what is he here to learn?

i know i should be focusing on myself and on my journey, and i guess it's not my business but it makes me feel all sorts of bad things to think about how tipped the scales could be.

maybe some people are here just to live life and not learn anything if this is the case.

Where'd that come from?

Put in the awful situations by yourself - your own soul - before you were born. So - essentially - you've done this (life) to yourself because you agreed to it.

If you believe in soul contracts - how on earth would you - could you possibly - know anyone else's? Do you have an ongoing dialogue with your soul? Do you think everyone does?

Why? You come across as though you're supposed to know all this stuff. When was the last time you marveled at the magnificence of - anything? And the intelligence behind it?

Sorta like you're doing here?

What is it about this logic that resonates with you? Do you remember where you learned it? Do you remember why you adopted it? Have you asked your friend what it's like to have a life as pampered and effortless as his?

"...all sorts of bad to think about how tipped the scales could be." As in - tipped in favor of you having a roof over head and internet access and friends to be jealous of rather than the rest of the population on the planet that doesn't have the comforts you do?

You see what you want to see - in everything. You see what you want to see in people with money (and people without or less - and this means you) and you see what you want to see in terms of how you feel about having been dealt a fair hand - or not - in life. Or how sparkly the hand is. Or how many benefits it carries.

What do you get out of comparing yourself to others? What's the payoff? I know it can't feel good, but there's something about it that gives you a rise. Do you know what that is?

Sometimes we only realize what we (have) had once it's gone. And this doesn't just mean material things. Sometimes it's good to lose things - things like negative bad habits and ways of thinking - negative feelings like jealousy.

What are you grateful for? Do you remember what that feeling feels like? I ask because it wasn't that long ago that I felt it again for the first time in a long time and it surprised me. I said to myself "What TF! Where has THAT been?!" It's a really cool feeling.

:)

Best.

Baile
30-06-2017, 08:25 AM
i have a friend who complains about the tiniest of things... he also brags a lot even though he knows how ****ty everything is for meDoesn't sound like he is much of a friend. And that you don't consider him a good friend. End the friendship and maybe that's what he's here to learn from you... the karmic results of being self-centered. Everyone has something to learn, that's why we incarnate. You can't know his soul so you can't question and can't know what his karma is, it's really that simple.

fox22
30-06-2017, 08:26 AM
thank you, i think?
MicroMacro
this is the article http://thespiritscience.net/2016/03/18/understanding-soul-contracts-agreements-we-made-before-coming-to-earth/ which i refer to.

i think some people's soul contracts can be easily figured out in the most simplest least in depth terms by just seeing how their situation is.

"if you want to learn riches, you'll be shown poverty."
this simply just makes sense to me. it shows me that there is something better to grow out of all this hardship, like a lotus that grows in mud.
we can't expect to be humble or grateful when we're spoiled or handed everything so easily at our command.

i don't think i'm complaining, rather just pondering why things are this way in a spiritual sense in accordance to the belief in "soul contracts". thats all lol. i didn't mean to sound whiny. i was just trying to set a scene for what their life is like, i may have come off as bitter. i was in a bad mood.

i don't think i'm jealous, i think i'm upset that they're complaining even though they're so lucky, and think that i somehow can sympathize for them when i and people i love have things much more difficult.


" As in - tipped in favor of you having a roof over head and internet access and friends to be jealous of rather than the rest of the population on the planet that doesn't have the comforts you do?"
i wouldn't make too many assumptions about me lol. i'm grateful for these things, and i do think about the rest of the population.

"What do you get out of comparing yourself to others? What's the payoff? I know it can't feel good, but there's something about it that gives you a rise. Do you know what that is?"
it's just my sheer bafflement at how things have come together. how one thing could've made their life different, mine different, others different? how one tiny thing could've changed a lot of other things.

i suppose there are comparisons because if i were in his shoes i wouldn't complain at all. i'm not sure what "rise" i could be getting if just thinking about this person makes me upset now lol.

i'm wondering, why are there rich, and why are there poor, and how does this correlate with the idea of soul contracts? what lessons are there for them to learn, those who have entered this world so materially and stereotypically "blessed" and without hardships?

it's easier for me to think about soul contracts with people who have it worse than i do, because the message seems obvious.

it's more puzzling with people who are more privileged and have things handed to them so early.

i don't think i'm jealous, i don't wish i were him because i'd rather be me, even with everything life's dealt me. i like the person i've become because of it all, and i like the story I've been crafting for myself.

i'm able to be at peace with my situation when he's out of the equation, it's just when he's constantly pestering me expecting my sympathy or wanting someone to brag to that i become filled with emotions i don't quite like having.
THATS when I'm like, "Man, what could this guy possibly have to learn in this lifetime? How to have better manners?"

Baile
30-06-2017, 08:33 AM
it's more puzzling with people who are more privileged and have things handed to them so early.
Money can't buy happiness. What is it you want, that's really the question here it seems. Wisdom and inner peace don't require wealth.

H:O:R:A:C:E
30-06-2017, 09:45 AM
Wisdom and inner peace are wealth.

jojobean
30-06-2017, 01:36 PM
fox22 - maybe YOU are his lesson... it seems to me that you and him are complete opposites of each other, and perhaps you both are there to learn from one another. you by seeing that being rich isn't always the answer, and him by seeing that people have problems no matter how wealthy or not they are. it's not a coincidence that you and he are friends and are together for a reason.

Blue Tiger
30-06-2017, 02:06 PM
What do the rich learn? Depends on what their lessons and goals for this lifetime are/were.

Some rich people are philanthropic and generous and very "real" people. Others are arrogant, and power-hungry.

Quite possibly the generous rich are learning the true meaning of wealth, and what monetary abundance can do for OTHERS. In other words, they recognize wealth as a tool and not a sign that they are somehow BETTER than those who do not have as much.

The rich who are greedy and mean-spiriited? Perhaps they were poor in a prior lifetime and need to learn what it is like to have abundance. They do not yet understand the actual significance of wealth, nor that they are not better than anyone based on having a big bank balance.

People who are poor could be learning very similar lessons. Perhaps they were rich in a prior life and need to understand the struggles of regular people. Or they may need to learn about self-reliance, or about living within their means, or struggling to overcome what appear to be limitations.

Each person's lessons are different. Whatever they may be, it is important to remember that the size of your bank balance is less important than the size of your heart.

froebellian
30-06-2017, 02:09 PM
i
maybe some people are here just to live life and not learn anything if this is the case.

Lessons come in all forms; when we are faced with choices, we make them for whom? Ourselves, what is right, or what the law or society deem to be right? These are the lessons no one sees because they are subconscious but are still soul lessons.

Don't compare yourself to others, for their lesson maybe different to yours.

Greenslade
30-06-2017, 02:17 PM
it must be nice to be able to work out all day and make power smoothies and laze around and then work on making music and live completely free and unpaid for and STILL find things to complain about.All you see is all you look at, so in this case they've become your lesson.

It seems you have some more 'substance' to you than this person, don't stop there though.

Michelle11
30-06-2017, 03:15 PM
It is possible that fear of lack may be an issue you are trying to work on considering this situation bothers you but that doesn't necessarily mean your friend is working on the same 'money' issue. He very well was drawn into your life to be the antithesis to your money situation to bring up and trigger your fears about money but he could very well be working on something else like being motivated despite having everything handed to you. It actually has to be hard to feel driven when you don't have to work for anything. Or he could be here working on something else. I guess on some level you could see it that this person has less strength then you. Less resilience and so needs to be reliant on someone to survive the world while you are throwing yourself to the wolves to see if you sink or swim. That shows bravery. Or it is possible your friend no longer has a fear of money and as such is in a life of abundance but that doesn't mean he doesn't have other difficult for him issues. It does seem as though he feels discounted and you help him feel validated which could be the state of affairs in his family. they may have all the money in the world but do not connect at all on an emotional level. Of course I am making assumptions about both of you but the point is that just because you are a part of each others lives doesn't mean you are both working on the same issues.

As for why he complains about what seem to be petty things it is similar to small children. Not getting a cookie feels like the end of the world. If we haven't experienced bigger hardships the smaller ones feel big to us. Its all a matter of perspective. But you aren't experiencing a more difficult money hardship than your friend because you are less worthy than him. You both are worthy of all the money in the world. In any event, if this guy is upsetting you with how he talks then be honest with him about how you feel. You have a right to speak up about how you are feeling in response to him. It's not about attacking him for being rich but about being honest with how his behavior causes you to feel. If he isn't made aware of it he will continue to be unwittingly insensitive to the things that are upsetting to you. So speak up and try to have an open conversation with your friend and see where it goes. Take care.

fox22
30-06-2017, 05:57 PM
Doesn't sound like he is much of a friend. And that you don't consider him a good friend. End the friendship and maybe that's what he's here to learn from you... the karmic results of being self-centered. Everyone has something to learn, that's why we incarnate. You can't know his soul so you can't question and can't know what his karma is, it's really that simple.

it seems like i have a habit of being with the wrong people haha. this always happens somehow.

Baile, H:O:R:A:C:E, Inner peace and wisdom are wealth, I definitely agree. I should keep reminding myself this because sometimes the beliefs of others around me really get to me and I start to forget :(. I live in a poor area and my household has a lot of negative beliefs about wealth.


jojobean
I suppose that would make sense.

Blue Tiger
Thank you for offering up some possibilities. I didn't think about past lifetimes when taking this into account. "Whatever they may be, it is important to remember that the size of your bank balance is less important than the size of your heart." I liked that a lot, thank you. That's something to write on my wall haha.

These are the lessons no one sees because they are subconscious but are still soul lessons.

Don't compare yourself to others, for their lesson maybe different to yours. & Greenslade Thanks. I think aside from wanting to get to the root of it all, I want to know what his lessons may be so that I can somehow feel better about who he is and how he treats me. I realized that this morning after some reflection.

If i stop looking at him as Brian the rich and careless dude, and Brian the dude who is here to learn something spiritually, it softens up whatever negativity is in being held subconsciously.

SOMETHING I REALIZED..
I guess the whole reason as to why I haven't let go of him yet and why I'm putting this much energy into him is because somehow somewhere I still think he's a good person and redeemable in my head, and If i think about how we are all here on our journeys to learn things and live life, it takes a lot of whatever pain there is off of my shoulders. That if I can somehow understand his soul contract, I'm less. emotionally attached to how he is and how his life is and how he acts.
People have been telling me ill see what I want to see. i guess i want badly to see someone who like I said, is just simply growing and learning and doesn't mean to be annoying haha. I cant be mad at someone for how they were born, i realize that now. I don't think he means to be braggy or means to come off as spoiled and ungrateful.
And I suppose that If i do believe in soul contracts that means I technically ASKED to be in my situation, so I should honestly stop complaining and shut up and learn what I have to HAHA.
If i truly disliked him and his situation or him I don't think I would've come here posting hoping someone had something nice to say that could make me have a change of heart and justify our friendship. I wouldn't be asking about his spiritual lessons or searching for something to make him redeemable.
I guess i just wanted to feel like whatever i'm going through on top of how easy he has it isn't for nothing. I feel like I may have come off as whiny or jealous or bitter or putting myself on a pedestal but that wasn't my intent, and I don't want to feel those things or come off that way because it's not cute lol. So i also apologize If this thread may have been somewhat annoying to see HAHA.



Michelle11
Yes I definitely see what you're proposing. He does bring out a lot of my subconscious fears. I honestly thought I was done fretting about money or wealth until he showed up. I think in that case he can be a good tool for me to see what it is I need to work on in myself, wealth is obviously still an issue for me. If it wasn't I wouldn't be typing all of this up haha.

I suppose you're right about him not being able to connect on an emotional level. He says he doesn't have friends, and I've seen that to be true. All he has is his dog :(. He's also said before that he likes talking to me because some of the stuff he likes or would talk about normally are boring or strange to others. I think he thinks he connects to me emotionally and that the feelings are mutual, but it isn't. I WANT to be able to be that friend that we can connect with each other, but sometimes it feels onesided, because like you seen, we've come from very opposite sides of town HAHA.


If we haven't experienced bigger hardships the smaller ones feel big to us.

I liked that a lot, it put things in perspective for me. I should talk to him, youre right. I guess I haven't been too keen on seeing things from his side because I was too much in my own head.

I suppose then, this is also a learning point for me to be open about my feelings. I don't talk about how I feel and I end up just being angry and he doesn't know why, which is unfair to him. I'll try to be more open and communicate how I feel.
Prior to this post we had an argument about our living conditions.
I wasn't communicating and we were arguing about something superficial when I suppose my feelings ran deeper than that. When he couldn't decode whatever it was I wanted him to figure out subconscious I got mad and blew up and then left.
Him, despite everything, so sweetly called me last night to apologize, being the bigger person even though It was my fault for not being open and dancing around my feelings. I realized then he really doesn't get it. Or me. To him I'm his friend that he can go to and vent to because he has no one, and sometimes we will buttheads because we're so different, but it's fine. I cant expect him to know what it feels like to be poor without getting him uncomfortable and he can't expect me to know what it feels like to cry over salads without me being annoyed. I'll take these differences with a grain of salt I guess, and breathe, and try to just remember who I am to him. I don't want to leave because I'm all he has, aside from family. I think if i were to leave it would really hurt him :/// I don't want to do that, especially if I have been quiet anojt my feelings, because then it'd just be out of nowhere.

I don't want to bring up the argument with him again, because we've both gotten over it, I think i'll just try to be more open in the future about how I feel. I'll try not to put too much feeling or energy in our differences.


Thank you all for responding to this post!
I think i've learned a lot about myself. And my friend. What started off as a question about soul contracts instead turned into something that made me delve deeper into myself, and now I see what I have to work on and what's been bothering me. I realize that this probably wasn't about soul contracts at all to begin with, and I was just subconsciously doing something idk what I was doing lol but I realized what I needed to realize... I hope LOL. hopefully this post is still okay to be in this section of the forum.

above all, the continuing message i've gotten from many of you were ones of love, peace, and wisdom.

knowing another persons soul contract or not, it's not my business. we are in each other's lives for reasons. if something makes me feel bad i guess i'll pay more attention to asking myself why i feel that way instead of trying to figure out someone's spiritual journey HAHA.

thanks everyone for putting up with this!

dryad
30-06-2017, 06:03 PM
Its not as simple as just learning about the opposite of whatever we have. Learning is about choices and opportunities as much as lack. And consider role models.... When we are ready to learn about something we come into contact with those who can teach us. Suffering can be a teacher but it is not the only way. Freedom is sometimes an opportunity to focus on things we would not have the time or safety to otherwise.

Buddha was a Prince. What did he learn?

MicroMacro
30-06-2017, 06:25 PM
thank you, i think?
MicroMacro

i suppose there are comparisons because if i were in his shoes i wouldn't complain at all.

i'm wondering, why are there rich, and why are there poor, and how does this correlate with the idea of soul contracts? what lessons are there for them to learn, those who have entered this world so materially and stereotypically "blessed" and without hardships?

it's easier for me to think about soul contracts with people who have it worse than i do, because the message seems obvious.

it's more puzzling with people who are more privileged and have things handed to them so early.

i'm able to be at peace with my situation when he's out of the equation, it's just when he's constantly pestering me expecting my sympathy or wanting someone to brag to that i become filled with emotions i don't quite like having.

THATS when I'm like, "Man, what could this guy possibly have to learn in this lifetime? How to have better manners?"

How many sets of eyes can you see behind? So how can you know what another person fears or feels?

It looks to me like you're making some pretty big assumptions about life and people and contracts and - stuff. Is that wise?

Life is pretty big behind your own eyes - yes? There's more than enough for you to try to get a handle on in your own world. Is thinking about this guy and others with money a diversion so that you don't have to focus on your own life/feelings/thoughts/concerns/stuff?

:)

If you're able to feel peace when he's out of the equation - why is he in it? How do you exercise the power you have in this relationship with him? Are you aware that you have some?

lemex
30-06-2017, 06:34 PM
i try to wrap my head around it, but i can't.

i have a friend who complains about the tiniest of things, like how he's worried if his mom will put money in his (already generously filled) bank account or not, while i and others are here worrying if we're going to be evicted from our run down trailers or not lol.




Kinda can understand. There could to two lessons.

One is to learn compassion. One is to learn the value of it. Learning the value (of why) is always the hardest. I sometimes think both lessons must be learned.

It Is
01-07-2017, 12:05 AM
I definitely think that past lives have to be taken into account.

People like this guy might have "eared" it somehow by being very hard-working or generous in the past or maybe he has just evolved enough so that he has found a certain level of peace and happiness in his being - and his outer life is simply a reflection of that...

As for the "complaining" - well that's just what people do. He might actually be doing that to relate to you more.

Emm
01-07-2017, 12:31 AM
Try not to think in terms of what you see, as in conditions, but what we feel on the emotional level. His pain, although seen from your perspective seemingly unwarranted, is very real to him from his own. So no matter the circumstances we all can find something to worry about and we can also find it within ourselves to find compassion. Which is easier, finding compassion for those who have less than yourself or for those who seemingly have more? Maybe you both are learning the same thing from each other here, but from different perspectives.

Greenslade
01-07-2017, 10:36 AM
Thanks. I think aside from wanting to get to the root of it all, I want to know what his lessons may be so that I can somehow feel better about who he is and how he treats me. I realized that this morning after some reflection.

If i stop looking at him as Brian the rich and careless dude, and Brian the dude who is here to learn something spiritually, it softens up whatever negativity is in being held subconsciously. You're welcome.

Really, rich or poor is just the context in which we have our experiences. Rich people have just the same problems and issues as poor ones but sometimes rich people have different experiences because of their money - and vice versa obviously. Careless dudes can be rich or poor.

It's not really up to you to know his Life's Purpose/Karmic Obligations because that's private. It's going to sound counter-intuitive but worry about your own Life experience first and foremost, his Purpose will come from there. What most people don't realise is that it's quite possible that his Life's Purpose is to be here for your Life's Purpose, so you can have these thoughts and work it through for yourself.

If someone treats you with disrespect it means they're missing something, it's always about them and not you. What they're missing is something else and human nature doesn't give a toss if we're rich or poor. Just treat him like you would any other friend in need.

If i truly disliked him and his situation or him I don't think I would've come here posting hoping someone had something nice to say that could make me have a change of heart and justify our friendship. I wouldn't be asking about his spiritual lessons or searching for something to make him redeemable.This is what it all boils down to, this is what it's about for you and the rest of it is the human interaction. That takes practice more than anything else but I think the important thing is realising that this is who you are. And the thread isn't annoying, if i were a teacher I's slap a gold star on your forehead. :smile:

FallingLeaves
01-07-2017, 02:46 PM
you can't group them all together in one boat.

some rich people are there to learn what it is like to be different from being poor; others are there because they steadfastly refuse to learn about anything real and want to learn how to direct other people's lives instead.

Blue Tiger
01-07-2017, 04:38 PM
you can't group them all together in one boat.

some rich people are there to learn what it is like to be different from being poor; others are there because they steadfastly refuse to learn about anything real and want to learn how to direct other people's lives instead.


Exactly right, FallingLeaves.

People in the same family are not necessarily working on the same lessons; in fact they most likely are not. People in the same financial circumstances, class, or profession are most likely working on highly individualized lessons.

There is no One-Size-Fits-All curriculum.

The more affluent, but rather whiny, person the OP cited may be learning (or not learning) lessons about standing on their own two feet, being independent, or moving beyond the position in life their parents put them in.

There is just no way to know. So probably best to focus on our own lessons, our own lives, and not worry about others' lessons too much.

Lerena
01-07-2017, 05:28 PM
I can see where you're coming from, but at the same time, I may be able to give you a different perspective as someone that's roughly similar to your friend. Unlike your friend though, I don't brag about anything. I don't brag about what I have, because I know it could all be taken from me in a single second, plus even with all I have, my family isn't rich, just hard-working and wise with money.

My life is similar, because I don't have to worry about money right now. However, this doesn't mean I never will. It just means that most of my complaints aren't related to money. While I can see why you are bothered with his complaining, I complain about trivial stuff as well and I think it's somewhat unfair to judge his situation as him not being here to learn anything just because he's privileged.

As another poster said, money can't buy happiness. It also can't buy lasting friendships or meaningful connections. He may not have the same hardships, but I'm sure there is plenty a rich person has to learn.

In my case, for example, my mother pays for my college education as well. I have a roof over my head and I am well fed, clothed, and everything seems well in my life from the outside. After all, I have a loving family, a good boyfriend, good friends, and I'm able to spend my time however I wish. The downside to all this is having what I do is not giving me happiness. It can't fix my severe depression or give me the fulfillment I want. It can't fix my lingering loneliness or sense of disconnection from the people on this planet. The only thing that can do this is myself, not the money I have.

Perhaps my biggest lesson in life so far has been that I should never judge a book by its cover. Everyone has difficulties. Even though someone may complain about something small, who are you to say how small it is? Your difficulties may seem more important, but as a friend, is it really right to dismiss his issues as petty? Does this sound like something a friend does? He's probably trusting in you to be supportive. Maybe he values loyalty in a friend and just having someone to listen to him.

On the other hand, he has no right to complain as much as he does. It sounds like he's selfish and self-entitled at times. Your friend most likely needs to learn the value of generosity as the rich can easily give to the poor to help them survive. Unfortunately, many rich people don't help the poor and they use their money to obtain too many unneeded luxuries.

I spend my life not doing much, but as mentioned before, I am severely depressed. If I had to work 13 hours a day, I'd be even worse off than I am now, because I'd have basically no free time to spend my life the way I want to. And believe me, I wouldn't last long working 13 hours a day, because I'd become extremely unstable and my well-being would be severely affected.

Although it sounds like I should seriously be grateful for what I have, my depression gets in the way of this, plus my ability to experience positive emotions is limited. I have something called anhedonia, which is the inability to experience pleasure from things that once made me happy. Anhedonia lowers my appetite as well and I'd probably have more significant issues without my medication. My medication increases my appetite so I feel like eating.

What I am desperately trying to convey is: not everyone is the same. Not everyone can cope with a difficult life. I sure wouldn't be able to and I'm definitely no stranger to difficulty. I recognize what I have and try my hardest to be appreciative. At the same time, my depression always gets on to me for complaining when I know I shouldn't be. My struggle in life is finding happiness even with a mental illness that continuously robs me of it. We could say that I have to learn the meaning of real, genuine feelings of happiness.

Your friend is probably different from me in that he doesn't have a mental illness holding him back from pursuing his dreams. However, I am merely using my struggles as an example of how someone with his lifestyle may have something to learn even when it seems like a person has everything otherwise.

Additionally, I don't know your friend, so I don't know exactly what he's like. All I have is your post to reference. I'm not able to give specific advice in regards to your situation, because your friend may not be a very good friend to start with. It doesn't sound like the two of you have a decent friendship based off what you've said. My situation aside and that of your friend's, I think you're better off focusing on just yourself.

I know all too well the trap of comparing yourself to others. It's not a good place to be in. I'm sure you'd rather have a good work ethic than be in the position of being unwilling to learn.

Speaking as someone in his situation, I'd definitely pick personal growth and independence over being in his shoes. I'm currently considering the steps I need to make to get there. He may be doing the same and you'd never know.

H:O:R:A:C:E
02-07-2017, 06:43 AM
i am absolutely certain that you can overcome your challenges Lerena.
for one thing, you wouldn't have entered into a "soul contract" in which the
lesson was: "you cannot learn from this" [that would be completely nonsensical].

i suggest that you seek your 'position of power', and address the difficulties
from that perspective on things. you might begin by sorting out the thoughts
that you use; set aside all of those which don't assist you. for example, where
you've said: "I am severely depressed" -- this self definition can serve to
disempower you. i am imagining that you are a person who has an energy field
of depression associating with you... you and the depression are not synonymous.
also, projecting (potential) problems into your future is unlikely to be helpful
(i suggest that you resist the impulse when you notice yourself doing that).

an element of therapy might involve spending time with puppies, or other
newborn animals. perhaps you could visit a pet shop, or a petting zoo.

be well,
H:O:R:A:C:E
:smile:

Shivani Devi
02-07-2017, 07:10 AM
Rich people learn that 'greed is good' and 'money can buy happiness' and they keep learning it for many lifetimes, until calamity befalls them, also for many lifetimes until such times as they see the error of their thinking.

hallow
02-07-2017, 08:02 AM
I feel bad for your friend, I've seen many people who get everything handed to them. There's a good chance your friend is very insecure,and afaid. Your experiences made you stronger and more sure of yourself. Take pride in your independence.

Lerena
02-07-2017, 05:36 PM
i am absolutely certain that you can overcome your challenges Lerena. I hope that you are correct. For now at least, things seem to be getting worse, but this doesn't mean that I have given up. My search for answers will likely lead me to one even if finding that answer takes most of my remaining life.

for one thing, you wouldn't have entered into a "soul contract" in which the lesson was: "you cannot learn from this" [that would be completely nonsensical]. Depression and anhedonia are nonsensical. If I entered this world willingly, my higher self must really love pain.

i suggest that you seek your 'position of power', and address the difficulties from that perspective on things. you might begin by sorting out the thoughts that you use; set aside all of those which don't assist you. for example, where you've said: "I am severely depressed" -- this self definition can serve to disempower you. i am imagining that you are a person who has an energy field of depression associating with you... you and the depression are not synonymous. also, projecting (potential) problems into your future is unlikely to be helpful (i suggest that you resist the impulse when you notice yourself doing that). I mean you no disrespect. I know you are only trying to help to the best of your capability. However, if I may be allowed a moment of honesty, none of this is helpful. While I have been rather negative, I must inform you that depression by its very nature robs a person of the ability to be positive. You clearly have no experience with depression as a mental illness or you would not be telling me this information. What you are saying is basically, "Think more positively," which I am afraid is the last thing to tell a person with severe depression.

However, your post in general implies an intent that my words did not have at the time that I wrote them. "I am severely depressed" is more a statement of how I feel in much the same way as "I am happy" would be. These words were not a declaration of truth with which I meant to define myself. The more accurate phrasing would be that I "have severe depression," but by specifically pointing out that my depression and I are not synonymous, there is an implication that I meant something I never did. Additionally, the direct result of this implication is that your post invalidated how I feel in favor of telling me that I can decide to simply feel happy at will. This isn't the case for anyone, let alone someone with depression, and although I know your intent was not to invalidate anything I was saying, I hope that what I have just said has clarified what I meant by the words you pointed out from my post.

Additionally, I was hoping that I got across the message that I am working toward a better future for myself. Nowhere in my post did I mean to project anything, but after re-reading my post, I believe I know where you got that idea.

I don't brag about what I have, because I know it could all be taken from me in a single second This may seem like projecting, but it's a possibility that is unlikely to happen. This was not meant as a literal implication that I "expect my future to be awful." Seeing a possibility and deciding to do what I can to prevent it isn't necessarily projecting. It's being realistic while taking responsibility for my own future. In all fairness though, I see your point. I just don't see positivity as the one absolute cure to everything. Being positive doesn't necessarily get me the future I want if I don't also act to obtain it.

My life is similar, because I don't have to worry about money right now. However, this doesn't mean I never will. I'm being realistic here as well. Almost everyone on the planet has to worry about their money at some point. It's unlikely I'll succeed at achieving my goals if I don't think about how to get what I desire in the future and the obstacles I may have to overcome to get there. This is less about projecting and more about just preparing for the future. As in, I know that one day I'll need to get a job and this is a normal expectation. Almost everyone has to work at some point and it would be unrealistic to focus on a future I'm not working for.

----

All of this said, I hope that I wasn't too rude. I may have been very blunt in this post, but I do appreciate the time you took to respond to me. I just felt it was necessary to clarify some things. Overall, I should be able to overcome my challenges. It just might take a while.

Thank you for your feedback. Have a fantastic day. :D

iamthat
02-07-2017, 08:56 PM
Rich people learn that 'greed is good' and 'money can buy happiness' and they keep learning it for many lifetimes, until calamity befalls them, also for many lifetimes until such times as they see the error of their thinking.

Is this true? Certainly there are those who believe that money is the solution to all of life's problems so they try to get as much as they can, only to find that being rich does not make them any happier.

There are also many rich people who are simply grateful for their fortunate circumstances, happy to live fairly simple lives without excessive material possessions. For them, money is simply a resource, an energy. It is to be shared with those less fortunate.

Really, we are not discussing someone's bank balance but rather their stage of spiritual development. A wealthy person who is relatively unevolved will use their wealth in a selfish way. A wealthy person who is more evolved will use their wealth unselfishly to benefit others.

There are lessons to be learned from being wealthy, just as there are lessons to be learned from a life of poverty. We will know both extremes during our various incarnations, and maybe we eventually develop an attitude of gratitude and detachment from our material circumstances, whatever they might be.

Peace.

H:O:R:A:C:E
02-07-2017, 11:00 PM
Lerena: If I entered this world willingly...
as i understand things, there has been a high demand of souls wishing to
incarnate on this world at this time. a grand shift of enlightenment
is underway that many have desired to witness and contribute towards.
it may well be that your higher self was insistent upon being here,
and it could be that you have 'priority status' due to your many lifetimes
of service leading to this juncture.
i suspect that mother earth views you as a particular blessing.

Lerena: none of this is helpful
meaning no disrespect, but seeking your 'position of power' is the only
thing which can empower you to make the changes you wish for.
what other option(s) are there? let someone else do your work for you?
what i was basically saying was NOT "Think more positively". :BangHead:

Lerena: your post in general implies an intent that my words did not have at the time
i disagree.
my post is stating that words have power.
if you direct that power towards disempowering yourself, you become disempowered.
choose your words with care.
say what you mean, and mean what you say.
when you reflect on things, the words you've used (and accepted from others) to define
yourself and your situation can aid you presently or be a hindrance to your progress.

Lerena: your post invalidated how I feel in favor of telling me that I can decide to simply feel happy at will
i do not believe that i have invalidated anything.
however, i AM in favor of the notion that a person can choose the feelings they wish to embody.
i theorize that many people simply allow good or bad feelings to come or go without actively
choosing which they prefer to experience. precisely that choice is what i sense is the main
ingredient for ushering in a heaven on earth for humanity. i am a believer in the power of choice,
and i will not surrender that divinely appointed ability/responsibility for anything.
it could be that you are incapable of exercising choice for some reason unknown to me...
it's my belief that you are responsible for self-defining your essentials (it's not something
that i can do for anyone outside of myself).

Lerena: If I had to work 13 hours a day, I'd be even worse off than I am now, because I'd have basically no free time to spend my life the way I want to.
^ that is where i'd sensed you had "projected" failure into an imagined future.
if we were to define "work" as meaning "function", i believe that you could be quite happy
indeed if you were to find yourself functioning properly a full 24 hours of the day.
i might assume that it's your deepest wish to be fully functional and perhaps that ALL of your
time was "free" for you to spend however you want to. [however, i will not assume such,
since i recognize you as (potentially?) being able to define those wishes for yourself.]

thanks for the dialogue Lerena,
with love, H:O:R:A:C:E
:smile:

fox22
03-07-2017, 06:48 AM
Suffering can be a teacher but it is not the only way. Freedom is sometimes an opportunity to focus on things we would not have the time or safety to otherwise.

Buddha was a Prince. What did he learn?

Very true. Thanks!



If you're able to feel peace when he's out of the equation - why is he in it? How do you exercise the power you have in this relationship with him? Are you aware that you have some?

1. I think I feel bad for leaving people.
2/3. I am not aware of any power I have in the relationship with him, or what that power is.


lemex, Is Is, Emm,
Thank you very much for the responses.
It is true I haven't taken past lives into account and that makes things far more interesting to think about.
"Try not to think in terms of what you see, as in conditions, but what we feel on the emotional level. His pain, although seen from your perspective seemingly unwarranted, is very real to him from his own. "
I really really REALLY. . .liked this. It somehow put things into perspective for me. I find myself feeling bitter over people's feelings but when you put it that way it really softens up the edges. I love this so much- I'll remind myself of it everyday. For some reason this really hit me haha. It doesn't matter why someone feels a certain way, it's simply that they feel it. . no one "should" or "shouldn't" feel a certain way just because of specific conditions.
Wwwwwww this made me realize that I probably sounded a bit self entitled in MY own way for being upset at him for having feelings I guess.


You're welcome.

Really, rich or poor is just the context in which we have our experiences. Rich people have just the same problems and issues as poor ones but sometimes rich people have different experiences because of their money - and vice versa obviously.

This is similar to what Emm said! So I like this too- it's just the context. I like that a lot, I will remind myself of that.

It's going to sound counter-intuitive but worry about your own Life experience first and foremost, his Purpose will come from there.

This isn't counter-intuitive at all, actually, these past few days I've been telling myself to shut up and just focus on myself HAHA. This is my journey, so I should focus on it.

If someone treats you with disrespect it means they're missing something, it's always about them and not you. What they're missing is something else and human nature doesn't give a toss if we're rich or poor. Just treat him like you would any other friend in need.

Thank you, I like this. This reminds me of "turning the other cheek" I suppose.

And the thread isn't annoying, if i were a teacher I's slap a gold star on your forehead. :smile:
Haha, thanks! I'd be a grateful student.

FallingLeaves, BlueTiger, thank you for your response.

The Necromancer Short simple and straight to the point. Thank you for responding.
Just read, iamthat's response to you. I really enjoyed the following. . .

There are lessons to be learned from being wealthy, just as there are lessons to be learned from a life of poverty. We will know both extremes during our various incarnations, and maybe we eventually develop an attitude of gratitude and detachment from our material circumstances, whatever they might be.

Peace.


I feel bad for your friend, I've seen many people who get everything handed to them. There's a good chance your friend is very insecure,and afaid. Your experiences made you stronger and more sure of yourself. Take pride in your independence.

I sure hope that I am, thank you! I don't know about them, they always talk about how confident and happy they are, but who knows, it could be a wall or mask. I wouldn't wish on anyone to feel that way. I suppose we can all get that way sometimes.

.-.-.-.-.-.-.


Depression and anhedonia are nonsensical. If I entered this world willingly, my higher self must really love pain.



Is it bad that I snorted and laughed out loud because that's the exact same thing I said when thinking about MY OWN self contract.. .
I said, "Man, with everything I've been through and am experiencing my higher self must really be some next level sadist." HAHAH. But knowing myself, I know that there's going to be a higher payoff at the end of all this struggle. . there just has to be!

Lerena, I understand you very well because I too have been diagnosed with major depression. For more of a glimpse into my background, I've also been diagnosed bulimia, and anorexia, gaining and dropping anywhere from 10-15lbs a day. I've been in and out of hospitals and therapy, as well as various psych wards. There have been more times than I can count where I should very well be dead. I won't get into detail on those because those are a little graphic. There are more that I could mention, I could go on in detail about how trash everything has been, but for now, just that glimpse. Why? Simply because I've come to realize, with the help of all these people on this forum, on various threads and posts, and not just this thread, that our situations mean nothing, it's how we handle it.
To some, my story is nothing. To some, this is barely an ounce of what they've been through. Maybe that's how it is for you, but what I'm trying to illustrate is that I know exactly how you feel, at least for the depression aspect, and if you won't take it from H:O:R:A:C:E because you think they are not knowledgable on the subject, I will tell you, because I am.

I must inform you that depression by its very nature robs a person of the ability to be positive. You clearly have no experience with depression as a mental illness or you would not be telling me this information. What you are saying is basically, "Think more positively," which I am afraid is the last thing to tell a person with severe depression.

Nothing H:O:R:A:C:E has told you is out of disrespect or ignorance. It may be hard to hear, but what they say is completely true. . . Of course, no one wants to hear "just be happy!" or the like. It sounds stupid, fake, self-entitled,ignorant and what not. It is DEFINITELY the last person anyone with any type of depression would ever want to hear in their entire life. I know. I heard it numerous of times, and I was like, "What the hell?! Do they even know what I'm dealing with?" Another thing, I was a big fan of blaming how I was on my depression. . . I blamed a lot of other things to. I was into blaming my environment. . .blaming my family, blaming my abusers. I blamed people because I thought it would be ridiculous that anyone but myself could be responsible for what I was going through and feeling.

What H:O:R:A:C:E is trying to say, and what I completely stand by, is that we are responsible for how we feel. We have the power to be happy. At first it may sound like a load of bull, "I'm not keeping myself from being happy! If I could be happy, I would. It's my depression that makes me unhappy, not me." (That was my favorite line). But in truth, it is as simple as realizing that you do have this power over yourself. Depression cannot rob anything that you do not let it rob.

I feel in favor of telling me that I can decide to simply feel happy at will. This isn't the case for anyone, let alone someone with depression,

THIS. You need to stop telling yourself this. No matter how much you believe it, stop it. Because what they've said is truth, you are disempowering yourself. You continue to use your depression as an explanation for the way you are. And others will too, but who cares if it's gospel or science or written in stone, nothing matters except for what YOU think. . .so if YOU think it to be true, and believe it in your heart then it is.

Perhaps you didn't decide to feel sad initially, but you can always decide if you would like to continue feeling so.
As per example, let's say something bad happens, and you become sad. You can then choose wether you would like to stay sad, or ease yourself out of it, and make yourself happy.
We are always responsible for the way we CONTINUE to feel.

This may seem like projecting, but it's a possibility that is unlikely to happen. This was not meant as a literal implication that I "expect my future to be awful." Seeing a possibility and deciding to do what I can to prevent it isn't necessarily projecting. It's being realistic while taking responsibility for my own future.
What is being realistic? Are we not the creators of our paths? Are we not in control? If that is so, then why are we subscribing to other people's versions of "realism"?. In short, nothing in "realistic" because anything is possible.

In all fairness though, I see your point. I just don't see positivity as the one absolute cure to everything. Being positive doesn't necessarily get me the future I want if I don't also act to obtain it.

Perhaps positivity isn't the absolute cure all, but would you rather be working and acting to obtain the future you want with a positive mindset or a negative mindset knowing that the negative mindset makes things harder?

I'm being realistic here as well. Almost everyone on the planet has to worry about their money at some point.
Look at your subconscious beliefs, why do you believe everyone has to worry about money at some point? Surely there are people ( like my friend ) who has never worried about money a day in their life.
Why do you think your depression controls you? Is it because of what you are told, or have come to believe? Why is it harder to believe that YOU have power over your depression?
Why do you think you are powerless?


i disagree.
my post is stating that words have power.
if you direct that power towards disempowering yourself, you become disempowered.
choose your words with care.
say what you mean, and mean what you say.
when you reflect on things, the words you've used (and accepted from others) to define
yourself and your situation can aid you presently or be a hindrance to your progress.

This is true! Look at the vocabulary you've used, Lerena. Do they empower you, or disempower you? Are they positive, or negative?

Lerena, please please please please . . take this with a grain of salt, and try to believe me when I say you CAN change. . you CAN be happy. . you CAN change how you feel.
Okay, okay, so what if you really can't? It's all bull, it's impossible, it's not gonna work. But let's pretend for a moment that you do have control, okay? Let's pretend that you can change how you feel.

Please, try this.
It starts with baby steps. And faking it until you make it. Have you heard the term "dress for success"? It's used in many business/marketing classes. Always dress for the position you want when you're going to get a job. Starting as a receptionist but want to be CEO? Dress like the CEO. Even if it's pretend, even if you're not rocking those Louis V's and are rocking Ross instead. Feel like a million bucks, even if your wallet only has one buck in it.
So why wouldn't this apply to how we feel?
Want to be happy? Start pretending you're happy. Go around doing what happy people would do. Do things that you would do if you were happy. How would your life be different if you felt happy? Get yourself in that mood. . naturally let those feelings flow to you. The universe will align itself with what it is you want.

It's different for everyone. Everyone has their own ways of getting better. Like H:O:R:A:C:E mentioned, maybe go to a zoo, or pet animals. Right? What do you like to do? What makes you happy? What makes you smile?
If you had something to answer for those questions >>Then do those things more! Like painting? Do it more!
If the answer was nothing >> Then the power of spoken word will do magic for you. You said you have anhedonia. So speaking things into existence is the way to go.
Don't believe me? That's fine- we're playing pretend right now. Okay? How badly do you want to get better?
Answer that in your head.
That's how badly you want it? Then you'll have to want it ten times more than that.
You have to get up every morning with a newly found sense of enthusiasm even if you're faking it. Like I said, spoken word will do magic for you. Monitor your thoughts, don't block negative thoughts, but ask yourself why you're thinking that way. And then see if you can turn it into a positive.
For example,
"Man I really HATE chocolate. Why do I hate chocolate? I guess because it gave me cavities and I had to get my teeth fixed and that was awful. But you know- my teeth are cool now. Also someone somewhere loves chocolate. I bet someone really loves chocolate so much that it makes them really happy. That's cute. I hope one day I can find something that makes me really happy like that."
It sound silly and it is so maybe you can get a good laugh from it, even if you have to fake it.
Every morning when you wake up look yourself in the mirror and say three good things about yourself, or three things you really like about yourself. End it with, "I love that."
From what I observe, If I were you, I'd say,
"Lerena, I love how you're able to speak your mind unapologetically. Some people are afraid to talk about just about anything, and you're honest and straightforward. I love that."
"Lerena, I love that how deep down I know you're growing, and trying to empower yourself, because if you weren't you wouldn't be on forums like spiritual forums, talking to a bunch of weirdos. I love that about you."
"Lerena, I love how hard working you are. I believe that hard work leads to success, and I am so happy and grateful that you are working this hard to give yourself a better life. I love that."
You may even say something like, "Hey, you're beautiful." To yourself, even if you don't believe it at first, but eventually you will.
Pride yourself in small things.
Tied your shoes hella good? "Wow Lerena, that was a great knot. You're basically the knot-tying king."
Made a good cup of coffee? "Wow Lerena, this coffee tastes great. Good job."
Throughout the day, run through your head things you are grateful for. (I admit I should do this more, since it seems jealousy has gotten the best of me. Proof: this thread.)
Got a roof over your head? Say, "I am grateful for the roof above my head."
Really, get up, stand in the middle of your room, point at things, go, "I am grateful for you, clock, because without you I'd never be able to tell the time."
Got a fridge with at least one beer in it? Maybe juice? Announce it to the world. Or in your head. Whatever works.
The power of gratitude works wonders. Maybe you can keep a journal or write on your phone's notepad 10 things you're grateful for everyday.
Most importantly.
Tell yourself things are getting better. Tell yourself that with every breath you take, things are getting better by the second. Even if you don't believe it, tell yourself that.
Spoil yourself- do things that relieve you from stress. Take a hot shower or bath, do yoga, walk around a bit, read maybe?
Tell yourself that you have the power to overcome anything life throws at you.
Smile at yourself in the mirror even though you think everything sucks at the moment, because either way smiling fires neural messages to your brain telling it that it's happy.
Do you see the pattern here? Basically- you're faking it till you make it.
And if you're like, "Idk who this fox22 person THINKS she is, but none of this will work. Like, girl, I've tried this all before."
Okay, fair enough, so try it again, and try harder.
Because if happiness is what you want, you'll get it. If overcoming your depression is what you want, you'll get it.
Even if you don't believe in the power of positive speaking/thought, what hurt does it to you to simply try it, for let's say, a few months?
Train yourself to be positive, to be grateful, to feel happy.
Because it's as simple as that, waking up and deciding you'll start. And working at it. Deciding, "I'm done with this depression, and I'm ready to be happy, so I'm going to do anything it takes to be that way, even if at the end of the day I'm so exhausted and I go to bed crying in my pillow hating life, I'll just fake it all again tomorrow morning, and the day after that, and the day after that, because then it will become real eventually." But only if you believe it will.

Like I said, this is probably something you'll hate hearing. In fact, you were probably rolling your eyes at the screen the entire time. Or scoffing. Or feeling insulted, angry, saddened. Maybe after all of this you'll wanna fight me. That's cool. No one with depression wants to hear that they can just change. It sounds so insensitive. But it's the truth.
Another truth? Somehow we've trained ourselves to be victims. We love being victims. "He used me, they did this to me, this hurt me." But why? What power does being victim serve us? He used me- why did I let him? They did this to me- why does it matter now? This hurt me, so I'm angry, but does this anger still serve me?
We have to take responsibility, because we are responsible for ourselves, no one else is.
And until you accept that, and take responsibility, that is when you will begin to change. Because if you keep telling yourself that you are a product of your circumstances and ailments, then you will forever continue to be. You'll be a slave to it. But if you tell yourself you have more power in you than there is power in the world, then that will be your truth, and you can accomplish anything.

And just know, It gets better. If you really want it to get better, it will. "But fox22 I've been wanting it and nothing's changed." Want it more. Believe you can have it.
The whole "be happy" saying seems like this big scheme because it entails that it can happen over night, and that's not the case (though it could be, anything's possible.)
I'm not saying one day you're going to wake up and magically be happy and you get to skip in a field of daises while singing "kumbaya my lord" on the top of your lungs while wiping your sweat with hundred dollar bills. Sometimes you will have good days, and most days you will have awful days where you have to fake it and pretend it's a good day, until it finally becomes real, and you find that your "bad days" start turning into good days. Do little things, each day. Some days will be rough, and somedays you'll get on a real good streak and it will seem like heaven has opened up and angels are singing and whatnot, and then it could go back to complete trash. Just roll with it. Not everyday is perfect, none of us are. We all have our bad days, our off days, our worse days. But it's doing little things that count. And look, maybe none of the things I've offered up will help you. That's fine, because different things work for different people. So it's about finding your rhythm too, "What can I do to make myself better?" You have to really invest in yourself. Really put the time and energy into becoming the happier you.
And when you look back at how far you've come, you'll be really proud of the progress you made, even if you're not 100% better, because you'll be better than you were before.

That's all I have to say for that, this entire reply may be a complete mess, but hopefully some things were able to resonate with you. Maybe none of it will, but just know my intentions were good. I don't know if i've made myself clear or if this comes off as hard to understand, or mean, or selfish or rude, or if i have spelling errors a second grader would laugh at, but please know I don't mean any harm, disregard, or anything bad.
I just know that we are, in each of us, capable of being the best versions of ourselves, and I hope you can find that silver lining. I truly believe that none of us are put into situations and experiences that we ourselves couldn't handle, or grow from, or learn from, or overcome.
Sometimes it's not about the hand we're dealt, but what we make of it.
I wish you the best on your journey.


Anyways, once again, thanks all to everyone whose responded so far!

Lerena
03-07-2017, 03:40 PM
@H:O:R:A:C:E and Fox22: Before I respond, I just want to say that I appreciate the time put into these posts. I don't necessarily have the time to respond to everything right now, but I do want to point out that I don't mean to sound like I'm not taking responsibility for my life and how I am doing. I am definitely doing so, just in my own way.

Also, even if to me, it feels and seems like nothing is ever going to improve, I'm sure that I will get somewhere as long as I keep trying. Granted, I'm still starting to get exhausted from fighting against my depression all the time. That's why my posts have been so negative: because right now in the current moment I am sick of constantly having to live with the issues I have and barely getting anywhere with fixing any of them. A person can only handle so much before they begin to break and I am starting to break, but I'm sure at some point I'll find hope again.

I will keep working toward getting better once I've regained my sense of inner strength.

Additionally, even with how much I'm disagreeing with you two, I do agree that words have power. After all, writing is one of my main creative outlets, so of course I'd agree with this.

Nothing H:O:R:A:C:E has told you is out of disrespect or ignorance. I agree that he isn't disrespecting me. After thinking about it, I do not believe that he is necessarily ignorant either. It seems like I'm misunderstanding his posts, but overall, I can tell he doesn't mean to be rude or insensitive. However, I do respectfully disagree with what you and him are saying and I will continue to approach my problems and how to fix them in my own way.

I blamed people I used to do this as well.

Why is it harder to believe that YOU have power over your depression? Long story. Basically, since I've constantly been hit with problems over a long period of time with absolutely no long-term relief from them, I've started to believe that getting better is a fantasy. However, I continue to seek long-term relief with limited to no progress so far.

Why do you think you are powerless? I don't necessarily think I'm powerless, but since most of my attempts to recover from my depression thus far haven't resulted in long-term relief, I'm starting to question the legitimacy of current levels of treatment.

It's different for everyone. Everyone has their own ways of getting better. This is true. My way of getting better isn't with positivity, however, and it is my right to get better in the way that I choose to. I do not have to get better the way everyone else does, because so far no one else's methods have worked, so why should I place my faith in what other people say? I will find my own way to get what I desire. Only I can fix myself and rather than "fake it until I make it," I create my change with what I do instead of what I say. Until I've changed my circumstances with my own actions, it's going to be impossible to change my words. This is what I've decided. My words won't change until results manifest through what I have done.

You said you have anhedonia. So speaking things into existence is the way to go. Not necessarily. I create things into existence through my actions, not with my words. Doing is better than talking for me. Even if I speak negatively, I am still able to work toward achieving my goals by simply continuing to do what I've always done. Through my actions, my words will eventually change as I start to see results. I've decided that in order to change my thinking, I need evidence, so I am working to create the evidence for myself.

Overall, I am doing better than my posts indicate. Years ago, I wouldn't have had the guts to take any responsibility for my situation and I'd also be unable to disagree with you two without getting excessively angry. So, simply disagreeing is a bit of an improvement.

Unfortunately, I think my posts, and maybe even this one, make me sound like I'm not doing anything about the situation I'm in, which isn't true at all. I'm taking steps to fix it, but it's a slow process.

Michelle11
03-07-2017, 04:44 PM
I do want to point out that I don't mean to sound like I'm not taking responsibility for my life and how I am doing. I am definitely doing so, just in my own way.

Also, even if to me, it feels and seems like nothing is ever going to improve, I'm sure that I will get somewhere as long as I keep trying. Granted, I'm still starting to get exhausted from fighting against my depression all the time. That's why my posts have been so negative: because right now in the current moment I am sick of constantly having to live with the issues I have and barely getting anywhere with fixing any of them. A person can only handle so much before they begin to break and I am starting to break, but I'm sure at some point I'll find hope again.

I will keep working toward getting better once I've regained my sense of inner strength.
By its very nature Depression is a symptom of us being shut down in some capacity. I have been depressed on some level my whole life but it wasn't until I got stuck in severe depression that I realized how devastating it can be to not only our motivation and drive but our will to live. It's a crushing state and I have fought against it the whole time I am sure compounding my suffering. I even reached a state of lost hope where I could not take another breath and it was the worst feeling in my life so I can't say that I have been very cooperative with my recovery but I did have a friend side that kept at it even if my enemy side and the depression was resisting every step of the way and wanted to do me in. the thing is I think I had to fully admit that I was depressed first before anything started to change. I tried to deny it and that just kept it in the background undermining all my efforts in life or rather kept me sitting life out. And in some ways reaching that place of lost hope meant I had no where else to go but up. There is a saying by Hemingway that goes, The world breaks everyone and afterward many are strong in the broken places. In many ways depression is the point at which we have hit the end of the road, all our efforts to fix our pain have hit a dead end, we have no other choice but to tear things down so we can rebuild a new us but the tear down is tough, painful and confusing. I cried for 3 years straight after I broke but I kept walking. You are too even if you don't feel like it because you are still here. In the end the only person important in our depression equation is us. How we feel and what we think is all that matters. I don't feel bad anymore for feeling defeated, for being depressed and not being able to go on. It isn't right or wrong it is just what it is. In any event, depression is exhausting, it takes the life out of you and is one of the hardest things I have every had to overcome so rest if you need to, cry if you need to, take a break if you need to. You will be strong in the broken places soon enough as will anyone else who is reading this and struggles with depression. Sending you and all my fellow depression warriors love and strength.

Greenslade
03-07-2017, 07:28 PM
This is similar to what Emm said! So I like this too- it's just the context. I like that a lot, I will remind myself of that. I doubt there are many lessons specific to circumstances whether they be economic, Spiritual or anything else. I was told by a wise woman that there are lessons that only women can have so that made me wonder, and it's probably the exception to the rule.

This isn't counter-intuitive at all, actually, these past few days I've been telling myself to shut up and just focus on myself HAHA. This is my journey, so I should focus on it. Oh well, by what you've been saying I thought you were concerned with your friend, but not so much that it would have been counter-intuitive lol. Yes it is your Journey, but nobody takes the Journey in complete isolation.

Thank you, I like this. This reminds me of "turning the other cheek" I suppose. You're welcome. In a way it's turn the other cheek but it's more than that, it's the start of understanding, compassion and sympathy and the Universe is a reflection of you.

Haha, thanks! I'd be a grateful student. You're the one that's doing the work.

fox22
03-07-2017, 08:52 PM
That's why my posts have been so negative:
Nothing has to be negative.

I will keep working toward getting better once I've regained my sense of inner strength.
You will never be ready, you must simply start. The defining moment between those who stay stuck, and those who move on, is taking the step to do so.

Additionally, even with how much I'm disagreeing with you two, I do agree that words have power.
Then why do you use disempowering words on yourself?

However, I do respectfully disagree with what you and him are saying and I will continue to approach my problems and how to fix them in my own way.
This is fine, however I will respectfully point out that continuing to do the same thing and expecting different results from the results you are getting currently is complete madness.



However, I continue to seek long-term relief with limited to no progress so far.
Then change what it is you are doing, or do what you are doing with increased effort. Two people may take the same path, but it is the mindset that will determine he who makes it out of it all.

I'm starting to question the legitimacy of current levels of treatment.
Good! Question it, scrutinize it, find out what is not working, change it, stick with what is working. You are your own project, and you have to test things out on yourself. This is how you'll find your rhythm. You're on a good start if you are questioning your current treatments.
If something isn't working, then why stick with it? Toss it- try something else.


This is true. My way of getting better isn't with positivity, however, and it is my right to get better in the way that I choose to. I do not have to get better the way everyone else does, because so far no one else's methods have worked, so why should I place my faith in what other people say? I will find my own way to get what I desire. Only I can fix myself and rather than "fake it until I make it," I create my change with what I do instead of what I say. Until I've changed my circumstances with my own actions, it's going to be impossible to change my words. This is what I've decided. My words won't change until results manifest through what I have done.
Reread this. Are these beliefs you've set for yourself hurting you, or helping you? Are they making things harder for you, or easier for you? Words are power, no? So again, why would you disempower yourself by now disallowing benefits from helpful self talk or positive thinking? Again, to do the same thing and expecting different results from the results you are getting currently is complete madness.

Not necessarily. I create things into existence through my actions, not with my words. Doing is better than talking for me.

I suppose I cannot change the way you wish to handle things, for that's up to you. So, then, never mind what I said before if you find none of it helpful.

I do have a suggestion for you, however. Have you looked into witchcraft or wicca? A lot of spells require direct action, which may get you into a certain feeling place of manifesting, wether or not it be truly magic to you, or simply a placebo effect which gets things to come to you, it has the same attitudes of "taking action" rather than simply "speaking" things into existence. It gets your body moving, and it makes you feel like something is being done.
I think you may like it, if action is the course you wish to better yourself with. You should definitely look into it if you haven't already, with an open mind.

Moreover, taking action. Have you tried anything to help yourself physically? Are you in good physical shape? Taking care of your body and diet? Do you exercise or eat consciously? Exercise has numerous mental benefits. If you wish to take action, this is a good course of action to get your body into the state of someone who is better. A sound body calls for a sound mind.

More actions- how is your home environment? Is it clean? If not, perhaps take action into organizing your room- i recommend "The Art of Tidying Up" by Marie Kondo, or looking into feng shui.

Since you are the type of person who likes to take action, and it seems like you like seeing things before you believe them, then why not take action to better your surrounds so that a positive train of thought is able to grow?

FallingLeaves
04-07-2017, 02:08 AM
Unfortunately, I think my posts, and maybe even this one, make me sound like I'm not doing anything about the situation I'm in, which isn't true at all. I'm taking steps to fix it, but it's a slow process.

it is one step in front of the other for now and you know to do that so you are doing fine.

what gets me about the whole situation though is that no matter how many times I 'fix' this 'problem' in the end I'm back here, alone and forlorn, with everything dead around me... and i have to 'fix' it 'again' only whatever tools I used before are now broken. This situation is getting very old to me. So any more I'm like... is there something I'm meant to learn from this, other than how to go play houdini yet another time? Personally, I think there is. But even if I'm wrong about that... I'm still getting tired of enough of this game to not want to continue to go along with what my activities in relation to the problem are supposed to be.

Baile
04-07-2017, 10:21 AM
is there something I'm meant to learn from this... I'm still getting tired of enough of this game to not want to continue to go along with what my activities in relation to the problem are supposed to be.You don't have an option, you're alive, and so you have to continue. And when that realization hits, it becomes a simple matter of choosing to consciously nurture a positive life outlook and attitude. The two keys are: focusing on the good things that are happening in your life; and dropping the notion and illusion that 'life' is doing all this to you.

You find yourself back in that place because of the choices you are making. The thing you are here to learn then, is to make new and different choices. And that starts with life outlook. A positive life outlook can change the circumstances of one's life 180 degrees. Instantaneous transformation. I came to this understanding around age 30 when my life was a black pit of despair. The change in my life happened after I vowed to wake up each morning with joy and gratitude for life, and to look for the positive and good in things. And that one decision has made all the difference: what happens in my life is about me, and my attitude, and my life-outlook choices.

Baile
04-07-2017, 10:51 AM
One could say that spiritual self-development requires strife. It is via our life struggles, and questioning why that strife is happening, that we learn to become self-reflective individuals. And we learn to adjust and refine our life choices for the purpose of creating a more positive life.

Someone who is rich/privileged doesn't have the same level of strife in their life. And so there's not as much self-reflective work that goes on. This is why so many rich people -- politicians, athletes -- are so self-centered and appear so disconnected from the real world. It's not a stretch to say that being rich/privileged is an impediment to healthy spiritual development. Such individuals would have to fight harder for their spiritual growth. They would have to fight against that very privilege that insulates them and prevents them from growing spiritually.

hallow
04-07-2017, 11:17 AM
With "becoming spiritual" there some very wealthy people who are, and theres people who are 90, poor and delt with hard times there whole life who are not. I feel it depends on the person themselves. From experience when i was dealing with hard times. I didn't have the time to think about being spiritual. But now i have time and maturity to reflect. I knew it wad always in me but maybe i just wasn't ready till....well the last few years. Or maybe it happened and i just didn't know it, then i started to reflect.

Baile
04-07-2017, 11:25 AM
With "becoming spiritual" there some very wealthy people who are, and theres people who are 90, poor and delt with hard times there whole life who are not. I feel it depends on the can get away with e person themselves.Of course. But that doesn't invalidate my point. Look at politicians. You think billionaires running the country are self-reflective spiritual people? Of course they're not, it's obvious. They're rich people who think they can do what they want to whomever they want, specifically because they're privileged. There's not a spiritual self-reflective gene in their bodies.

hallow
04-07-2017, 11:37 AM
Of course. But that doesn't invalidate my point. Look at politicians. You think billionaires running the country are self-reflective spiritual people? Of course they're not, it's obvious. They're rich people who think they can do what they want to whomever they want, specifically because they're privileged. There's not a spiritual self-reflective gene in their bodies.
You do have a very good point! There's a lot of wealthy people with no morals. Guess long story short, often being spiritual is in you somewhere from day one if its ever going be there. But you don't have to be wealthy or poor not to have morals. All 1 person can do is do there best to make this world a better place weather or not you have a negative person around or not. A person can't let the negative take you over.

Baile
04-07-2017, 11:49 AM
being spiritual is in you somewhere from day one if its ever going be there. But you don't have to be wealthy or poor not to have morals.Yes. But I was also suggesting that being rich and privileged can be an impediment to spiritual awakening. In that sense then and as it relates to your topic, overcoming their "privilege handicap" can be understood as something they're here to learn. Rich or poor, all anyone is ever doing in life is learning to become moral beings, for the purpose of humanity's individual and collective soul evolution.

hallow
04-07-2017, 11:52 AM
Yes. But I was also suggesting that being rich and privileged can be an impediment to spiritual awakening. In that sense then and as it relates to your topic, overcoming their "privilege handicap" can be understood as something they're here to learn. In that sense, rich or poor, all anyone is ever doing in life is learning to become moral beings, for the purpose of humanity's individual and collective soul evolution.
You are right!

Baile
04-07-2017, 12:06 PM
You are right!You were correct first with your "You don't have to be wealthy or poor not to have morals" observation. :wink: Spirituality is about living life, and living life is all about learning moral self-development. That's it, that's my Bible, my alpha and omega. :smile:

hallow
04-07-2017, 01:20 PM
You were correct first with your "You don't have to be wealthy or poor not to have morals" observation. :wink: Spirituality is about living life, and living life is all about learning moral self-development. That's it, that's my Bible, my alpha and omega. :smile:
Hahaha. Thats what i am working on.:rolleyes:

Blue Tiger
04-07-2017, 03:03 PM
Yes. But I was also suggesting that being rich and privileged can be an impediment to spiritual awakening.

Yes, clearly many who are very priveleged are not exactly searching for spiritual meaning in their lives. But it is good to remember that politicians are a small subset of wealthy individuals. I imagine there are a number of well-to-do individuals who use their "easier" life position to search for meaning and to really delve into philosophical and spiritual thought. They have both the leisure and the resources for trips, retreats, classes, etc.

And while your statement is true, so is the flipside - that being poor and underpriveleged can be an impediment to spiritual awakening. A huge impediment.

While it can surely be done, focusing on spiritual growth when one isn't sure if they will have food for dinner, or if the utilities will be cut off, cannot be easy.

Probably best to just say people from all walks of life and all circumstances CAN strive for spiritual awakening or they can ignore such things or they can be total JERKS (current crop of politicians comes to mind).

Maybe the corruptive power of wealth is one of the obstacles the rich have to struggle to overcome? Just as the corrosive power of poverty is an obstacle to those on the other end of the scale.

You get born, and then you just deal with whatever position you find yourself in. Pretty much all there is. Some find enlightenment, others find jail, still others just wander around in ignorance shopping for stuff they don't need cuz marketers have turned them into zombies.

Don't get me wrong. I envy the wealthy their money. I would love to have the problems they face (at least I think I would). But I would be using their wealth for more socially productive endeavors than simply garnering MORE wealth.

Baile
04-07-2017, 04:32 PM
And while your statement is true, so is the flipside - that being poor and underpriveleged can be an impediment to spiritual awakening. A huge impediment.That is partially true certainly. But it also true that the meek -- those who are honest and humble and who have consciously worked on evolving their moral integrity -- shall inherit the earth. People who do not have wealth, are generally more inclined to exhibit basic, simple honesty and humility. Try this: knock on doors in a wealthy neighbourhood and ask for food. You'll go hungry; they'll even call the police on you. Knock on the doors of families who are struggling to get by. You will very often be welcomed in, and find food to eat, and even friendship.

Dr. Shaw
04-07-2017, 07:49 PM
Damn the man!
Life isn't "fair', some of us have to work harder to get where we want to go. But you can get what you want even though you started behind your "friend" financially. Success will be all the sweeter for it. Just clarify what you want, where you want to go, and let LOA help you find the optimal path to get there. We all must start from where we are at. Have you read "FLOW...the psychology of optimal experience"? Flow is defined as the best state to be in, but the author makes thepoint that it sonly happens when you facing challenge. It is not enjoyment, that is passive...it is using all your capabilities to overcome challenges to get what you really care about. In fact, most people are happiest climbing the mountain than when they finally get on top!
Dr. Shaw

iamthat
04-07-2017, 09:37 PM
One could say that spiritual self-development requires strife. It is via our life struggles, and questioning why that strife is happening, that we learn to become self-reflective individuals. And we learn to adjust and refine our life choices for the purpose of creating a more positive life.

Someone who is rich/privileged doesn't have the same level of strife in their life. And so there's not as much self-reflective work that goes on. This is why so many rich people -- politicians, athletes -- are so self-centered and appear so disconnected from the real world. It's not a stretch to say that being rich/privileged is an impediment to healthy spiritual development. Such individuals would have to fight harder for their spiritual growth. They would have to fight against that very privilege that insulates them and prevents them from growing spiritually.

This seems to be an over-generalisation. The drive for spiritual development comes from within, whatever our material circumstances. It is true that material comfort can lead to complacency, which is a big obstacle to spiritual growth. Conversely, if the material life is always a struggle then there is little time or energy to pursue spiritual growth.

The benefit of wealth is being financially independent without the need to work for a living. We have the time and resources to pursue the things which really interest us. On some level we each create our own circumstances - perhaps it is a soul decision to not have material worries in a particular incarnation - there are plenty of other challenges in life.

Peace.

FallingLeaves
04-07-2017, 11:53 PM
The benefit of wealth is being financially independent without the need to work for a living. We have the time and resources to pursue the things which really interest us. On some level we each create our own circumstances - perhaps it is a soul decision to not have material worries in a particular incarnation - there are plenty of other challenges in life.

the basic problem for the rich is that while everyone currently goes along with the idea that doing mundane and boring things isn't worth any effort, this evaluation is 100% wrong. 100% of the people believe this, and 100% of the people are wrong.

But the rich have the means to make it their own personal reality... by paying others to do boring and mundane things which are 'beneath' them. Which as it turns out to a truly objective observer is like deliberately giving away ones power while mouthing the words that one is making others do demeaning things that noone important should have to do.

keokutah
05-07-2017, 01:07 AM
i hold a belief in "soul contracts".

that we choose our lives before we are born, and that every problem and situation we are put in shapes us in some form.

"if we wish to learn love, we will be shown hate. if we wish to learn patience, we will not be shown zen masters."

i like many others have had the fortunate misfortune of a really awful situation. i try not to pay too much worry to it because i believe i wouldn't be put in these awful situations if i couldn't come out of it. i believe that my soul chose all of these things for me, and that theres better at the end of it. that i'm here to learn from it.

so by this way of thinking what are rich/privileged people here to possibly learn?

i try to wrap my head around it, but i can't.

i have a friend who complains about the tiniest of things, like how he's worried if his mom will put money in his (already generously filled) bank account or not, while i and others are here worrying if we're going to be evicted from our run down trailers or not lol.

they have everything so easy, and you can't tell me not to judge this person by what "seems", that i may not know what he's going through, because trust me, he tells me everything, and it's a headache that he even thinks small things such as "oh my god my brothers left dishes in the sink" count for a crisis situation. his problems seem so minuscule and nothing compared to what i or others deal with, he has so much privilege, money, he has a loving family, and he's living in an expensive apartment in San Fransisco for FREE because it's being paid by his family. he doesn't have to worry about college, because his family is paying for his 50k a year tuition. it doesn't put a dent in their wallets. he gets everything he wants just by asking for it. he wants to get a job for the "aesthetic" of it, and i'm working to put bread on the table.

he also brags a lot even though he knows how ****ty everything is for me, and he complains and says he likes complaining to me because even though i have worse situations i don't get angry at him for being upset with how things are for him.

and i try to be patient, honestly, but sometimes it hurts :\

everything seems so easy for him, and i can't relate at all, and it hurts my head just trying to think what a person as privileged and easy-living as he could possibly be here to learn.

he's young, handsome, living in the city without his parents, getting weekly allowances from his family so he can just stay home and work on his art or his body, his biggest problems would be blessings to other people. ( like wow i'm losing little muscle in my legs today this is terrible )

he says about his allowances, "honestly i don't need that much money, i could have $200 a month and that'd be enough and i'd be happy."

which is great and all but most people need to budget 2k a month or more, especially living in just the LOWER INCOME sides of the bay area(near SF).

people WISH they were as privileged to complain about how dry their salad is.
he honestly doesn't understand that some people need more than 200 to live in his area lol because everything's being paid for for him.

if you want to learn riches, you'll be shown poverty.
so if he's rich, what is he here to learn?
if he has love and stability, what is he to learn from that?

i know i should be focusing on myself and on my journey, and i guess it's not my business but it makes me feel all sorts of bad things to think about how tipped the scales could be. we have similar goals, and it seems so easy for him that he doesn't have to work 13 hours a day while i do, he can live as leisurely as he wants while i have to put in a bit more effort. it must be nice to be able to work out all day and make power smoothies and laze around and then work on making music and live completely free and unpaid for and STILL find things to complain about.

maybe some people are here just to live life and not learn anything if this is the case.

This is really interesting because I can relate to a lot about your friend. It almost sounds like maybe we're the same person.

My parents bought me my own house, but I do rent it from them for super cheap. My mom puts grocery money into my bank account twice a week. I spend most of my time just doing what I want, which is doing my art and working out and relaxing.
I sound exactly like this friend of yours.

But I do have a part time job, thankfully I get paid to play badminton, which is my favorite thing in the world.

I also get free things just given to me on Amazon all the time. I don't have to work very hard to gey by. I'm a young guy, I even have a hottub and things most people my age don't have, and most people many years older than me have worked their entire lives to buy.

But I have to ask you, are you certain you really know everything about this guy? How do you know he doesn't have his own struggles or hasn't learned anything in his life? Most guys don't talk about deep personal issues, so you wouldn't know what goes on inside them.

If you were to look in on my situation without truly knowing me or my family, you might judge me just the same as you judge him.

But the truth is, I have struggled way more than most people have in my life.

The reason for the codependency in my family is because my parents were forced to care for me when I was going through rough times, and I matured and learned independence much slower than other people my age.

I am just now starting to become more independent and starting to set my foot down and tell my parents that I don't want them to do things for me anymore since I have discovered my self-esteem was so low as a result of not having my own independence and freedom.

Looking in as an outsider, you might see that my family is loving and supportive. But you don't see the abuse and the extremely unhealthy codependency that goes on.

I never go around advertising that I survived Cancer, and was born with eye problems that had to be fixed via many traumatizing surgeries throughout my childhood. I don't tell people that I am diagnosed with personality disorders and mental illness. I don't tell people that I'm a recovered sex addict, and I most certainly don't advertise I've had to recover from illegal paraphilias and that I was even institutionalized for murder attempts.

I don't even tell people that I am on disability welfare (even my friends who are on disability welfare don't usually know that I am on disability welfare), because being on it for mental illness is not something that is generally understood because most people expect you to be physically disabled to be on disability welfare. They look at me and say, that guy is a bodybuilder, why isn't he working, there's nothing wrong with him. Granted I do have my badminton job now, but for the longest time I wasn't psychologically able to hold a job. And it is my plan to get off of disabiliity welfare and eventually hold a full time job, and to be able to take care of my parents when they get old, and support them like they have supported me.

But that is exactly why my parent's give me money.

I also don't like to tell people that I was an alcoholic for years, or that I'm a dude who struggled with anorexia, or that I used to be addicted to mutilating myself.

There are a bajillion things that I could list that I struggled with in my life and a bajillion things I can list that I have overcome and learned, and I guarantee you it is way more than anyone else I've ever met, but no one I meet knows, because I don't talk about it. Maybe people look at me and assume I've never been anywhere or never learned anything in my life.

I was homeless once. My parent's didn't want me on the streets, that's why they bought me a house. When it comes to money, I learned the hard way that abundance is learned through spirituality and utilizing the law of attraction. You're not supposed to spend your life doing things you hate, that's what I learned. Your life is only so long, so live it to the fullest. I am not a slacker just because I know how to utilize the law of attraction, to attract riches and abundance into my life. Plus, I do work, I just make sure to do things I love, instead of being one of those people woh resents their jobs. I am not the richest guy in the world obviously, and I don't struggle because I trust in the universe to supply to me whatever I need to get by. If I want something, I get it, because that's how the LOA works.
If you constantly believe that you have to struggle to get by, that's what will happen to you. But if you believe that you can have something that you want, it HAS to come to you.
I struggled enough in my life in other areas, I don't need to waste my time worrying about those kinds of first world problems (stupid money problems).
I would recommend being homeless for awhile, or going on a long solo wilderness trip with absolutely nothing like I did. It taught me that those meaningless things in life really don't matter. When I had nothing, I was happy.
Now that I have lots of things, I am grateful. There are countless things that taught me very important lessons in my life. Just because I have a blessed home right now and rich parents that give me money, doesn't mean I never learn things. I am constantly learning new things and trying to become a better person every day.

H:O:R:A:C:E
05-07-2017, 06:33 AM
thanks for sharing keokutah.
imo: i don't believe that those past events serve to define you in any way,
but you can use them as an information resource in your present choices.
:smile:

H:O:R:A:C:E
05-07-2017, 06:52 AM
blessed Lerena,
i'm quite pleased to hear your determination to follow your own course
of action(s) without relying on anyone else to lead the way for you.
i see this as you proclaiming your authority over your welfare, and
maintaining your pathway to empowerment... which you'll demonstrate
as 'actualized' in due time (to your own satisfaction).
here's an idea that might help you: it could be that the issue you're dealing
with is composed of several elements which might be addressed separately.
i especially wish to convey the thought that there may be some elements
which you don't need to deal with at all. (certain aspects of your challenge
might vanish if left unattended, as if they were a mere distraction.)
here's to you :occasion14:

iamthat
05-07-2017, 09:16 PM
the basic problem for the rich is that while everyone currently goes along with the idea that doing mundane and boring things isn't worth any effort, this evaluation is 100% wrong. 100% of the people believe this, and 100% of the people are wrong.

But the rich have the means to make it their own personal reality... by paying others to do boring and mundane things which are 'beneath' them. Which as it turns out to a truly objective observer is like deliberately giving away ones power while mouthing the words that one is making others do demeaning things that noone important should have to do.

An interesting perspective. I am always cautious about making any claims about what 100% of people may or may not believe. Some of us are quite happy to do these supposedly boring and mundane tasks for ourselves. In the end, it is all just action.

Peace.

FallingLeaves
06-07-2017, 01:09 AM
An interesting perspective. I am always cautious about making any claims about what 100% of people may or may not believe. Some of us are quite happy to do these supposedly boring and mundane tasks for ourselves. In the end, it is all just action.

Peace.

I know I was in a mood and just felt like going to extremes lol!

iamthat
06-07-2017, 05:06 AM
I know I was in a mood and just felt like going to extremes lol!

Appreciate that. Extremes can be fun to visit sometimes, but I wouldn't want to live there permanently. :smile:

baro-san
06-07-2017, 05:25 AM
Being rich by one's standard, isn't rich by another. Being rich doesn't bring happiness. Some people get rich because they are better, more skilled than others. Some people get rich because they were lucky.

Envy is bad. Ignorance too.

You can be rich and do a lot of good for your own spiritual development. You can be poor and not learn anything.

Life on Earth is a mean, not a purpose.

There is no such thing that "we're here to learn to love". It's true that in some individual cases their life lesson is "love", but only because their behaviour in a past life called for such a lesson.

H:O:R:A:C:E
06-07-2017, 07:53 AM
Being rich by one's standard, isn't rich by another. Being rich doesn't bring happiness. Some people get rich because they are better, more skilled than others. Some people get rich because they were lucky.

Envy is bad. Ignorance too.

You can be rich and do a lot of good for your own spiritual development. You can be poor and not learn anything.

Life on Earth is a mean, not a purpose.

There is no such thing that "we're here to learn to love". It's true that in some individual cases their life lesson is "love", but only because their behaviour in a past life called for such a lesson.

i wanna disagree with most of your post baro-san.
there's several things that i could voice agreement with;
but perhaps the thought that most rankles me is:
"Life on Earth is a mean, not a purpose."

i believe that i journeyed here purposefully, and that this
life (of mine) isn't merely a tool for some grander endeavor.

:hug3:

Baile
06-07-2017, 09:13 AM
This seems to be an over-generalisation.And that's why I wrote "generally speaking." But there's truth in it nonetheless.On some level we each create our own circumstances - perhaps it is a soul decision to not have material worries in a particular incarnation - there are plenty of other challenges in life.Sure. But that's a different point than the one I was making. I'm saying being privileged generally means, at the very least, there are more mundane physical-material distractions that get in the way of one's higher, spiritual development.

H:O:R:A:C:E
06-07-2017, 10:53 AM
Baile: I'm saying being privileged generally means, at the very least, there are more mundane physical-material distractions that get in the way of one's higher, spiritual development.
i 'spose i'm just not fathoming this sentiment. it seems to fly (completely)
counter to general understanding. a more standard explanation of goings-on
might suggest that poor folk are too preoccupied with scrounging the means
for maintaining a meager existence to allow for any time pondering 'spiritual'
questions... but you seem to be saying the opposite, that "privilege" distracts
from exploring spiritual matters.
consider me perplexed.

Baile
06-07-2017, 11:49 AM
consider me perplexed.Okay, you are considered. :wink: I'm not, so consider me that.

Cherrish
06-07-2017, 01:42 PM
Privilege can distract from being spiritual, but I don't think that's a hard rule at all. It can also allow one to do great good.

I think the trick is understanding one's own development and dharma to the point of manipulating one's status to most enable oneself in a spiritual capacity. For some people this could mean giving up all worldly possessions. For others, it will mean accumulating wealth and power towards a spiritual end - such as relieving others poverty or other suffering.

Spirit has it's own agenda, which is not exclusive to poverty or of privilege.

H:O:R:A:C:E
06-07-2017, 10:01 PM
to me, the agenda of Spirit is to empower the desires of Will.
i see Will as having opened the space that allowed for this
planet to come into existence; the varied hells that have been
experienced are due to a low level of loving spiritual presence.
Will has never intended for hell to be a reality, so it's incumbent
upon Spirit to make a greater commitment of itself into manifestation.
get on the ball Spirit.

Cherrish
06-07-2017, 10:19 PM
To me, the agenda of spirit is to manifest consciousness. It has many ways to encourage this, but ultimately it cannot be forced. One must choose freely, or consciousness does not actually grow.

Heck of a way to run a universe.

H:O:R:A:C:E
07-07-2017, 02:32 AM
To me, the agenda of spirit is to manifest consciousness. It has many ways to encourage this, but ultimately it cannot be forced. One must choose freely, or consciousness does not actually grow.

Heck of a way to run a universe.

this conception fits well with my thought. loving spirit is not brought forth
against the will that might welcome it. willing vessels must house the
energy of love... to have it unhoused serves no useful purpose.

Cherrish
07-07-2017, 02:54 AM
this conception fits well with my thought. loving spirit is not brought forth
against the will that might welcome it. willing vessels must house the
energy of love... to have it unhoused serves no useful purpose.
:hug: .

shivatar
07-07-2017, 03:31 AM
perhaps as much as anybody else learns.

maybe every second of life is a lesson. Our entire life is a lesson. lessons to infinity, lessons within lessons.

Maybe some big things they learn are what it's like to be feared, to be dominant and powerful, to have servants and be regarded as special. etc.

typical rich stuff.

If they wanted to learn about enlightenment they wouldn't have chosen a rich life. Or perhaps they did want to learn about enlightenment and have a rich life only to give it up, like Buddha.

LibraIndigo
07-07-2017, 03:58 AM
perhaps as much as anybody else learns.

maybe every second of life is a lesson. Our entire life is a lesson. lessons to infinity, lessons within lessons.

Maybe some big things they learn are what it's like to be feared, to be dominant and powerful, to have servants and be regarded as special. etc.

typical rich stuff.

If they wanted to learn about enlightenment they wouldn't have chosen a rich life. Or perhaps they did want to learn about enlightenment and have a rich life only to give it up, like Buddha.
As much as a bad rap they get I have found the 1 per centers (that I have encountered at least) to be pretty friendly...if not MORE friendly than most ppl.
Perhaps the monied existence is due to good karma from past lives?

I have found upper middle class and anything slightly above that to that to be the most stuck up and rude people. But the very rich...they are nice

shivatar
07-07-2017, 04:21 AM
As much as a bad rap they get I have found the 1 1%ers (that I have encountered at least) to be pretty friendly...if not MORE friendly than most ppl.
Perhaps the monied existence is due to good karma from past lives?


It's probably a lot easier to be friendly when you don't have the stress load than the average working class family has.

if you spent all your time relaxing or with friends and family I'm sure you'd be in a good mood most of the time too. lol



Maybe. But maybe the good karma turns into bad which turns into good which turns into bad.

Which caused which?

In the infinite web there is no way to tell which karma caused which karma.

LibraIndigo
07-07-2017, 05:08 AM
I see the upper middle class as striving a lot (going into debt, getting mortgages etc) to maintain a certain lifestyle or appearance of a lifestyle...which comes with great burden after taxes, kids tuition etc. All of this is to "appear" "better". They need to have something to justify all the big chunks if change they spend (which actually hurts them quite a bit). It is Ego based. And we know how Ego based people behave. Some would call these people "rich". I think being "rich" is mostly a perception.

If you are talking about the truly rich(from a financial standpoint - you can be rich in other things, friends, love etc! ), the 1 per cent, these people's children don't have to strive for some kind of image. They are born with it. It is all they know. In essence they were more "authentic". I even think some of them envy the working class and want to be like them.

When someone says what do rich people learn? What do they mean by "rich"? As I said before I think it's just good karma.

If they mess it up they have to do it over again and come back as something else.

As far as me, I was a societal woman in my past lives...so now I have to work : /

I guess that's my karma lol

baro-san
07-07-2017, 05:40 AM
sour grapes: Disparaging what one cannot obtain,
as in "The losers' scorn for the award is pure sour grapes".

This expression alludes to the Greek writer Aesop's famous fable about a fox that cannot reach some grapes on a high vine and announces that they are sour.

H:O:R:A:C:E
07-07-2017, 07:02 AM
here's a fable with a similar moral
The Dog in the Manger
http://www.aesopfables.com/cgi/aesop1.cgi?sel&TheDogintheManger2
the dog might be likened to a rich man depriving
a working class man from obtaining sustenance.

LibraIndigo
08-07-2017, 03:13 AM
Maybe in their last life they hated the rich so they had to come back as the rich and be hated as well.

baro-san
08-07-2017, 04:05 AM
Maybe in their last life they hated the rich so they had to come back as the rich and be hated as well.
I liked it! :) Thanks!
Anyway, hate is worse for the hater than the hatee.

iamthat
08-07-2017, 04:20 AM
If they wanted to learn about enlightenment they wouldn't have chosen a rich life. Or perhaps they did want to learn about enlightenment and have a rich life only to give it up, like Buddha.

We could just as easily say that if someone wanted to learn about enlightenment they wouldn't have chosen a poor life.

Spiritual enlightenment and material wealth are not contradictory - it is possible to have both.

Peace.

shivatar
09-07-2017, 12:43 AM
I see the upper middle class as striving a lot (going into debt, getting mortgages etc) to maintain a certain lifestyle or appearance of a lifestyle...which comes with great burden after taxes, kids tuition etc. All of this is to "appear" "better". They need to have something to justify all the big chunks if change they spend (which actually hurts them quite a bit). It is Ego based. And we know how Ego based people behave. Some would call these people "rich". I think being "rich" is mostly a perception.

If you are talking about the truly rich(from a financial standpoint - you can be rich in other things, friends, love etc! ), the 1 per cent, these people's children don't have to strive for some kind of image. They are born with it. It is all they know. In essence they were more "authentic". I even think some of them envy the working class and want to be like them.

When someone says what do rich people learn? What do they mean by "rich"? As I said before I think it's just good karma.

If they mess it up they have to do it over again and come back as something else.

As far as me, I was a societal woman in my past lives...so now I have to work : /

I guess that's my karma lol

I don't think people strive to just appear better. I think with the appropriate amount of striving people actually are better. I believe there is a good medium where a person can work to the best of their ability for a certain amount of time and earn enough money to provide a comfortable life for their self and their children.

Stress, pain, suffering, it's all present even in the life of the most spiritually advanced. it is only alleviated in the deluded and the perfected, and only in the perfected is it truly alleviated. In the deluded it is simply postponed. Knowing that such things are a constant in life, most people choose to bear more than they have to as a way of preparing for unknown circumstances (unexpected medical costs, car crashes, house burns down, giving to charity, etc).

I don't think modern society is ego driven or full of sin.

We have abundant energy in our lives. we wake up and have energy until we go to sleep. On top of excess daily energy, we have long lives.

nobody likes to be constantly surrounded by friends and family.

Working is a great way to spend that excess energy, get time away from friends and family, and also improve our skills and inner growth.

If a person has great abilities and provides a lot of service to humanity, they deserve to be paid well. If they spend that money poorly it's OK.

If you have extra time and energy, work is OK.
If you have a highly developed skill, getting paid a lot is OK.
If you have a lot of money, spending a lot is OK.

I don't see the problem in the general trend. I see many people who don't have balance, who work too much or too little, or who save up all their money (greed), but that is a normal part of the universe and life. I think it's obvious that life isn't perfect to us, it's perfect for God, but not for us.

---

When 100 people say the word rich, 99 think of money and material wealth. having 100k in the bank, having a millon dollar net worth, having 10 million net worth, etc. So that is how I formed all my responses to this subject.

LibraIndigo
09-07-2017, 02:41 AM
I am only speaking from my own observations. I see a lot of "keeping up the Jonses" which is Ego based. Having an iPhone, a coach bag and living in a gated community.

I grew up in very socially "unprivileged" environment and travel more and do more cool stuff than my acquaintances that grew up in a "privileged" environment, because they are bogged down financially by things they think they "need" for their "image".

My view personally on money is that it is needed more to protect your energy space and freedom to do what you want to do than for any of the other nonsense. And also for your family if that's your thing.

LibraIndigo
09-07-2017, 02:44 AM
Double post

Jyotir
09-07-2017, 02:50 PM
To me, the agenda of spirit is to manifest consciousness. It has many ways to encourage this, but ultimately it cannot be forced. One must choose freely, or consciousness does not actually grow.

Heck of a way to run a universe.

Hi Cherrish,

That's the key and what always must come first in any such evaluation regarding $$, etc....The Will of the Highest in and through each soul.

Accordingly, the Highest may want to have the experience of material poverty or material wealth in any given life for any period of time. Since everything is Spirit, both can be fertile fields for the fostering of spiritual life. There is nothing inherently negative in wealth as that is an aspect of the infinite abundance that Spirit is.

In the past, by tradition, material wealth was considered necessarily to mean spiritual poverty, but humanity is going into another phase now where material prosperity used for the manifestation of Spirit is going to become more legitimate, more conscious and more prevalent - iow not just about desire and greed - although those possibilities are a probable hazard and therein is the caution - the world is rife with examples of ego and greed masquerading as 'spiritual' and altruism. But that's where the practice is: in the possibility and application of 'right' intention and action regardless of how much $$ one 'has'.

~ J

baro-san
12-07-2017, 10:04 PM
A teaching story, told by Alberto Villoldo (https://www.facebook.com/AlbertoVilloldo/photos/a.10150534040749466.468205.351831124465/10154192040689466/?type=3)
Once there was a monk who lived by a river. Every day he would fish and give away his catch to the hungry – all he would keep for himself was a single fish head to make soup with in the evening. One day one of his students told the monk that he was traveling to the holy mountain. The teacher was overjoyed and asked the student to visit his old master to ask him for assistance. ‘Ask him why I am stuck in my spiritual practice,’ he said.

The traveler embarked upon his journey.

When he reached the foot of the holy mountain, he inquired of an innkeeper, ‘Where does the master live?’ the innkeeper answered, ‘He lives at the top of the mountain. The orchards that you see are his orchards. The herds of cattle are his. Those are his fields planted with wheat and barley.’ The traveler was stunned that a spiritual master would have such great wealth. As he made his way up the mountain, he stopped and spoke to one of the gardeners, who confirmed that indeed these were the master’s orchards.

When he reached the top of the mountain, he found a magnificent castle. He knocked on the door, and the master’s wife welcomed him in. As she offered him a feast such as he had never before seen, she informed him that her husband would be arriving later.

At sunset, the master arrived in a chariot drawn by four horses and attended by footmen. He welcomed the traveler and inquired of his old student. The traveler said, ‘He has begged me to ask you for help. He wants to know why he is stuck in his spiritual growth.’

The master closed his eyes for a moment, and when he opened them again, he said, ‘Aha! It is because he is too materialistic.’ The traveler was sure the old master must be mistaken. But the master said , ‘No. Tell him what I said.’ And he bid the traveler a good journey home.

On his return, the traveler approached the fisherman monk and said, ‘I have news from your master, but there must be a mistake. He says that the reason you are stuck is because you are too materialistic.’

The monk knew instantly that this was true. ‘Yes! he exclaimed. ‘Of course!’

The traveler was mystified. ‘How can this be so?’ he asked. ‘After all, you give everything away.’

‘This is the point,’ said the monk. ‘In the evening when I am cooking my fish-head soup, all I can think about is the rest of the fish.’

The master, on the other hand, knew that he was not consumed by his possessions or defined by the wealth he had.

FrogWarrior
13-07-2017, 10:41 AM
I grew up poor then my mother inherited a lot of money. So from 12 onwards, we were rich. I can't answer the question, all I can say is financial inequality torments my soul to such an extreme extent that I've almost completely broken down. I'm going to a drug detox center for 5 weeks on Tuesday, when I get out I will have inherited money. My family won't give it to me outright, they think I'll just give it all away. I feel this sickness like I need to puke something out. They want me to buy a house or appartment so I'm gonna do it, and the plan is to rent it out, then move to Cambodia and I can live there for a fraction of the cost and pay the way some others to join in, my friend in another country is semi homeless and is the opposite of financially privileged, out of all my friends, hes more willing to let everything go and jump into a new world than anyone I know, I think hes gonna come with me.

I'm gonna teach the locals web development and programming so they can become freelancers and make the same wages as Westerners do. I don't think this is gonna make me feel any better, but its the only thing there is for me to do. Its a weird world of paradoxes, I tried numerous times to help people financially, since I've never actually had money to give, I brainstorm on ways we can create prosperity. It backfired on me badly twice, the last one has devastated me to the core. The unfairness and inequality is haunting my soul, I just wanna cry it all out but theres a block. The ability to give is the greatest gift there is. I believe that would be the core lesson for any rich person to learn.

Thanks for starting this thread. What you said "if we wish to learn love, we will be shown hate". I never wished to learn love until I got more than a glimpse of what love is.

It hurts me like hell too. If you wanna talk to a "rich/privileged" person, I'll tell you EVERYTHING about my life. I'm not your typical rich/privileged person though, I've been a hardcore all my life. Its really paradoxical because people in much less fortunate situations than me argue against me in support of capitalism. I don't get it. Is it not plain obvious that if we all work together as equals, its win win? We all prosper together, or we all suffer together. The last situation that backfired on me. I want to give all of this inheritance to her, she said to me "I'll never take any money from you". I get that completely.

You'll get a very different perspective from me than from your relatively privileged friend. If I can help you in any way it would be an absolute honour. Its not just financial inequality that bothers me, its all forms of inequality. Females have been oppressed, various races and cultures have been oppressed. I carry all that pain in me. I'm young, handsome, intelligent, creative, privileged. None of that brings me any happiness because the pain of knowing others are born without these things crushes me. My problems, something tells me you won't perceive them as miniscule. They're not my problems, they're our problem. Humanity as a whole carries this weight. I'm not in the same place as your friend. From your description, all I see is a "poor" ******* trapped in a trance of unconsciousness and ego. There is no real wealth in that world.

iamthat
13-07-2017, 08:08 PM
Hi FrogWarrior

So you are bothered by inequality, which I can understand. We live in a world where there are sufficient resources for everyone, but many people lack the basics to get by. It is all out of balance.

However, I do not see that giving away your inheritance will reduce the level of inequality in any way. It will simply change your status from being one of the 'haves' to being one of the 'have-nots'. Inequality remains and your life suddenly becomes much more of a struggle. What does that achieve? And if you give all your inheritance away then who says that the recipients will use that money responsibly and wisely?

You are in a fortunate position where you can choose how to use your wealth for the benefit of others. But you seem to feel guilty that you have wealth while others are poor. Making yourself poor may remove that guilt but it will do little to alleviate the problem of poverty.

Perhaps you are in this situation because you have lessons to learn about using financial wealth wisely. Giving it all away is not necessarily a wise use of that wealth - how can you then help anyone else?

I am in a similar situation, although I am probably rather older than you. Various deaths in the family meant that I inherited enough so I no longer have to work. I give away a lot of money every year to various charities which help people in need, because I would rather give money to those charities than to specific individuals who may or may not use the money wisely.

As for myself, I live very simply, which suits me. My house is small, but perfect for me. My car is 20 years old but it gets me where I want to go. Overall I am grateful for my good fortune - what seems to be lacking in your posting is any sense of gratitude for being in such a fortunate position. Wealth is a responsibility but it does not have to be a problem.

Peace.

amitc
13-07-2017, 08:28 PM
One of my best friends comes from an extremely wealthy family. I think it's naive to think that just because someone is financially set, they magically have perfect karma and nothing to learn in this life. Financial stability doesn't mean you have transcended above all the rest and you're just living large. It's just another space and classroom for learning and growth, it's another platform to teach something that might not be as effective in another form. It's their reality and I think to say they shouldn't feel pain or challenged because they have everything they need, lacks compassion and empathy on a broader scale.
My friend carries a lot of guilt because of the lifestyle he's been born into. He's had to grow under a lot of pressure from his family and the social constructs he's found himself in. Being wealthy doesn't teach you how to love yourself, it doesn't teach you how to love others. You still have to learn all that though experience and personal evolution. In his experience it's caused rifts between family, it's cause him to have to be a parent to his younger siblings because his parents were always away, it's caused him to lose faith in people because they would rather use him and try to piggyback off his lifestyle than be a true friend. Money creates comfort and an escape but it doesn't fix your human experience when it comes to soul work. It's just a different classroom. I think it's naive and unfair to try to compare experiences and say that just because someone is more 'fortunate' means that they shouldn't have any problems or reasons for soul growth... that right there shows one place where the seeker needs to reflect on why they feel that way. We're all here for the same reason, to learn and evolve. Our platforms just look different from reality to reality.
A

Sugar-n-Spice
14-07-2017, 01:52 AM
Consider luck and let's say poor people have it then consider ambition and let's say rich people have it. Life still goes on for both as they strive against the environment to survive. The lessons of each individual are particular to their own path.

baro-san
14-07-2017, 02:12 AM
If rich="bad" & poor="good", why do "good" people hate "bad" people?
Reduction to absurdity! (Reductio ad absurdum)

H:O:R:A:C:E
14-07-2017, 05:20 PM
If rich="bad" & poor="good", why do "good" people hate "bad" people?
Reduction to absurdity! (Reductio ad absurdum)
i don't see it that poor folk hate rich folk, any more than wealthy people
hate people without wealth. while it's true that certain 'underprivileged'
individuals may resent the egotism of "the haves", or that specific well-off
humans may bemoan the 'choices' of those who are lacking in means,
the good/bad dynamic relates to the inequity of the system and not those
enmeshed within it .
monetary systems are a creation of man; they do not exist in nature.
a society institutes a system so as to ensure 'fairness' (in theory).
somewhere, somehow, a thought arose which linked a persons inherent
value to the amount of societal created wealth that they could accumulate
and/or direct... as if monetizing [read: objectifying] a human soul. that
non-loving thought is at the heart of the problem in my estimation.
i feel that it is [I]natural for all humans to resent becoming
quantified as an object of value in serving an agenda which does not
serve their interests.... who has implemented this system which
disempowers humans? what alien intelligence has been exploiting us?

LibraIndigo
14-07-2017, 09:27 PM
I grew up poor then my mother inherited a lot of money. So from 12 onwards, we were rich. I can't answer the question, all I can say is financial inequality torments my soul to such an extreme extent that I've almost completely broken down. I'm going to a drug detox center for 5 weeks on Tuesday, when I get out I will have inherited money. My family won't give it to me outright, they think I'll just give it all away. I feel this sickness like I need to puke something out. They want me to buy a house or appartment so I'm gonna do it, and the plan is to rent it out, then move to Cambodia and I can live there for a fraction of the cost and pay the way some others to join in, my friend in another country is semi homeless and is the opposite of financially privileged, out of all my friends, hes more willing to let everything go and jump into a new world than anyone I know, I think hes gonna come with me.

I'm gonna teach the locals web development and programming so they can become freelancers and make the same wages as Westerners do. I don't think this is gonna make me feel any better, but its the only thing there is for me to do. Its a weird world of paradoxes, I tried numerous times to help people financially, since I've never actually had money to give, I brainstorm on ways we can create prosperity. It backfired on me badly twice, the last one has devastated me to the core. The unfairness and inequality is haunting my soul, I just wanna cry it all out but theres a block. The ability to give is the greatest gift there is. I believe that would be the core lesson for any rich person to learn.

Thanks for starting this thread. What you said "if we wish to learn love, we will be shown hate". I never wished to learn love until I got more than a glimpse of what love is.

It hurts me like hell too. If you wanna talk to a "rich/privileged" person, I'll tell you EVERYTHING about my life. I'm not your typical rich/privileged person though, I've been a hardcore all my life. Its really paradoxical because people in much less fortunate situations than me argue against me in support of capitalism. I don't get it. Is it not plain obvious that if we all work together as equals, its win win? We all prosper together, or we all suffer together. The last situation that backfired on me. I want to give all of this inheritance to her, she said to me "I'll never take any money from you". I get that completely.

You'll get a very different perspective from me than from your relatively privileged friend. If I can help you in any way it would be an absolute honour. Its not just financial inequality that bothers me, its all forms of inequality. Females have been oppressed, various races and cultures have been oppressed. I carry all that pain in me. I'm young, handsome, intelligent, creative, privileged. None of that brings me any happiness because the pain of knowing others are born without these things crushes me. My problems, something tells me you won't perceive them as miniscule. They're not my problems, they're our problem. Humanity as a whole carries this weight. I'm not in the same place as your friend. From your description, all I see is a "poor" ******* trapped in a trance of unconsciousness and ego. There is no real wealth in that world.
This is a great post! I agree with the other posters. Don't give it away! I knew a girl that inherited beaucoup bucks and had a good heart as well so she gave it all away. As a result of that she suffered a LOT and I think she regretted it. I don't think she saw the iniquities that would be around the corner for her.
Anyway I think the helping in Cambodia is a good idea. Non profit, NGO, politics, etc I would try to use the money (which is power) to make the world a better place. Now since you have your background and experience, and now with money, naturally your social circles might change. Just you being the way you are and sharing your views with others might help make a difference. I have found that most people are more maleable and persuadable than they appear. I learned that even about myself during the U.S. elections. I thought I was pretty firm on a subject but after a brief conversation with a Hillary or Trump supporter I would change my mind from one week to the next, just by being affected by the passion of other people.

Another example, in my work situation...no one ever listened to me or my ideas when I was a low ranking and lower paid employee. Now I am pretty high ranking, with my own responsibilities and I could supervise others if I wished (technically I outrank many) but I don't ever tell anyone what to do, I just stick to my own job. Never the less aside from that, now when I say things, people listen. I am the same person with the same ideas but people listen to me and take into account things I say even if not work related because of their perception as me in a higher rank or a a "leader".

Now, with your situation, some people may automatically see you as a "leader". So use it to the world's advantage!


the good/bad dynamic relates to the inequity of the system and not those
enmeshed within it [in my opinion].
monetary systems are a creation of
Agreed! There are good and bad people or in all walks of life.
I think it's naive to think that just because someone is financially set, they magically have perfect karma and nothing to learn in this life.

You know what they say about assuming about assuming things.