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eputkonen
12-06-2017, 04:00 PM
Realization of who/what we are brings the end to suffering.

Let’s say you are locked in a dark room and you see a shape on the floor that looks like a snake. You would worry, fear, and basically suffer…all the while you are stuck in this dark room. But if the light was turned on for…but for a few seconds, you could see it is a piece rope. Then the light goes off again, and yet the fear and worry do not return. You have realized that what you are seeing is a piece of rope. It no longer fools you…even if the darkness returns.

There is no difficulty in living the recognition of the “snake” being a piece of rope. The difficulty lies in if it is not truly realized and it still remains unknown for what it truly really is. Instead you caught a glimpse of that shape in the light and it looked like it might not have been a snake…but the glimpse was not enough to truly be sure…and so there is still doubt. And so although you want to live from the recognition of it being a piece of rope…you are still not really sure and think it still could be snake. The illusion only truly falls away when there is full realization…not a passing glimpse that is not fully recognized and so can be doubted.

The illusion of "me" is the basis of all suffering (mentally created hurt beyond physical pain via the nerves of the body). If there is a seeing through illusion of "me"...the mirage - although still apparent - no longer causes confusion and suffering.

no1wakesup
12-06-2017, 04:17 PM
Realization of who/what we are brings the end to suffering.

Let’s say you are locked in a dark room and you see a shape on the floor that looks like a snake. You would worry, fear, and basically suffer…all the while you are stuck in this dark room. But if the light was turned on for…but for a few seconds, you could see it is a piece rope. Then the light goes off again, and yet the fear and worry do not return. You have realized that what you are seeing is a piece of rope. It no longer fools you…even if the darkness returns.

There is no difficulty in living the recognition of the “snake” being a piece of rope. The difficulty lies in if it is not truly realized and it still remains unknown for what it truly really is. Instead you caught a glimpse of that shape in the light and it looked like it might not have been a snake…but the glimpse was not enough to truly be sure…and so there is still doubt. And so although you want to live from the recognition of it being a piece of rope…you are still not really sure and think it still could be snake. The illusion only truly falls away when there is full realization…not a passing glimpse that is not fully recognized and so can be doubted.

The illusion of "me" is the basis of all suffering (mentally created hurt beyond physical pain via the nerves of the body). If there is a seeing through illusion of "me"...the mirage - although still apparent - no longer causes confusion and suffering.

Apt metaphors. Well said.
Couldn't be otherwise.

Iamit
13-06-2017, 01:40 AM
Realization of who/what we are brings the end to suffering.

Let’s say you are locked in a dark room and you see a shape on the floor that looks like a snake. You would worry, fear, and basically suffer…all the while you are stuck in this dark room. But if the light was turned on for…but for a few seconds, you could see it is a piece rope. Then the light goes off again, and yet the fear and worry do not return. You have realized that what you are seeing is a piece of rope. It no longer fools you…even if the darkness returns.

There is no difficulty in living the recognition of the “snake” being a piece of rope. The difficulty lies in if it is not truly realized and it still remains unknown for what it truly really is. Instead you caught a glimpse of that shape in the light and it looked like it might not have been a snake…but the glimpse was not enough to truly be sure…and so there is still doubt. And so although you want to live from the recognition of it being a piece of rope…you are still not really sure and think it still could be snake. The illusion only truly falls away when there is full realization…not a passing glimpse that is not fully recognized and so can be doubted.

The illusion of "me" is the basis of all suffering (mentally created hurt beyond physical pain via the nerves of the body). If there is a seeing through illusion of "me"...the mirage - although still apparent - no longer causes confusion and suffering.

That is a most effective defense to fear if the mind thinks the character it serves will accept it. If not then the mind will not resonate with it and the character will remain fearful unless the mind can come up with something that does suit the character.

It seems like the solution you describe works for you.

Characters vary. One size does not fit all which can end the incessant projection of one solution above all others and allow all to have their place.

Ground
13-06-2017, 04:59 AM
...

The illusion of "me" is the basis of all suffering (mentally created hurt beyond physical pain via the nerves of the body). If there is a seeing through illusion of "me"...the mirage - although still apparent - no longer causes confusion and suffering.
Nicely said but that does not reveal whether it's a rope or a snake. :laughing7:

Or do you think you can clear the uncertainty about whether rope or snake with the auto-suggestion 'I am just an illusion. I am just an illusion. I am just an illusion. ...' ? :wink:

eputkonen
13-06-2017, 03:39 PM
Nicely said but that does not reveal whether it's a rope or a snake. :laughing7:

Or do you think you can clear the uncertainty about whether rope or snake with the auto-suggestion 'I am just an illusion. I am just an illusion. I am just an illusion. ...' ? :wink:

The fictitious "me" is the fictitious "snake" that causes suffering. Auto-suggestion or faking it won't succeed.

Seeing...seeing clearly...is the key. What is unseen & unknown (i.e. ignorance) is what keeps one feeling trapped (bond).

Enlightenment/awakening is called liberation. We think we are making progress in the process of freeing ourselves from bondage…but awakening (i.e. liberation) is realizing you were never in bondage in the first place. Upon awakening, you clearly realize that all of that time you spent in the process of freeing yourself from bondage was the delusion of bondage itself.

How to free oneself? By clearly seeing the bonds are illusion (self created mental fictions). All you can do is see...anything else reinforces the illusion of bondage.

Ground
14-06-2017, 03:49 AM
The fictitious "me" is the fictitious "snake" that causes suffering. Auto-suggestion or faking it won't succeed.

Seeing...seeing clearly...is the key. What is unseen & unknown (i.e. ignorance) is what keeps one feeling trapped (bond).

Enlightenment/awakening is called liberation. We think we are making progress in the process of freeing ourselves from bondage…but awakening (i.e. liberation) is realizing you were never in bondage in the first place. Upon awakening, you clearly realize that all of that time you spent in the process of freeing yourself from bondage was the delusion of bondage itself.

How to free oneself? By clearly seeing the bonds are illusion (self created mental fictions). All you can do is see...anything else reinforces the illusion of bondage.

What I have been pointing at is that the decisive moments are those when you are confronted with phenomena that by conditioning do cause fear or anger or the like as in the case of being possibly threatened by the presence of a snake which maybe could be only a rope. It is in those moments when mere words like "fictitious 'me'" are revealed to be mere words.

Having said that you do not have to re-invent the wheel, in this case the view of buddhism, since buddhism already exists.

WeRDivine
16-07-2017, 11:09 PM
The fictitious "me" is the fictitious "snake" that causes suffering. Auto-suggestion or faking it won't succeed.

Seeing...seeing clearly...is the key. What is unseen & unknown (i.e. ignorance) is what keeps one feeling trapped (bond).

Enlightenment/awakening is called liberation. We think we are making progress in the process of freeing ourselves from bondage…but awakening (i.e. liberation) is realizing you were never in bondage in the first place. Upon awakening, you clearly realize that all of that time you spent in the process of freeing yourself from bondage was the delusion of bondage itself.

How to free oneself? By clearly seeing the bonds are illusion (self created mental fictions). All you can do is see...anything else reinforces the illusion of bondage.

Dude, what you're saying here is helping me a lot. To overcome my fear. Will bookmark this thread so when I'm feeling down I can read this. Much love my brother.

awareness
17-07-2017, 04:32 AM
The fictitious "me" is the fictitious "snake" that causes suffering. Auto-suggestion or faking it won't succeed.

Seeing...seeing clearly...is the key. What is unseen & unknown (i.e. ignorance) is what keeps one feeling trapped (bond).

Enlightenment/awakening is called liberation. We think we are making progress in the process of freeing ourselves from bondage…but awakening (i.e. liberation) is realizing you were never in bondage in the first place. Upon awakening, you clearly realize that all of that time you spent in the process of freeing yourself from bondage was the delusion of bondage itself.

How to free oneself? By clearly seeing the bonds are illusion (self created mental fictions). All you can do is see...anything else reinforces the illusion of bondage.

You speak as if to say you have reached an end point called "liberation" or "realization."

Fact: You/we are still awakening, of course. This is the greater realization beyond feeling, "I have reached liberation." Even Jesus was not finished with his further refinement of integrating his spiritual awakening, for in a linear and multidimensional sense, the process is ongoing, even beyond the Earth plane reality.

There is no end point of "liberation" that a human being reaches. In fact, most non-duality proponents (most or many of whom believe in reincarnation) do not even realize that the journey of self-realization doesn't end with the soul's mastery of the 3D human experience. Even those who no longer "need" to reincarnate, having learned their human lessons, are still going to evolve further in other planes/dimensions of the multiverse.

Most non-duality proponents shy away from understanding the metaphysics of the multiverse, which of course is illusory, yet is still a necessary component of self-realization. In fact, there is no high-level, integrated awakening (such as what Sathya Sai Baba has realized and is still realizing) unless one learns to accept that liberation evolves beyond the "self-realization" level that can occur while one is physically incarnated.

Eputkonen, brother, although you avoid actually saying to people here, "I have reached liberation," you speak as if to imply that you have reached it. Well, the truth of the matter is that you are still realizing it, and (as far as the illusion of space/time is concerned) you will continue to realize it with further soul refinement even after your soul chooses not to incarnate as a human.

Most "liberation" proponents do ignore the phenomenal fact that they are multidimensional beings, and thus liberation is not just about the human journey, it includes other dimensions and other species which are also part of oneself.

If you or anyone here denies reincarnation as part of the awakening journey, this would be like saying, "The human being doesn't experience time." It would be foolish. For obviously, if one looks closely at it, the concept of reincarnation is essentially an extension of what all people already believe, which is that there is an experience/appearance of sequential/linear time. We all know within ourselves that energy can and does take on many forms, and that evolution is a biological fact.

The realization of inner joy actually (in a phenomenal sense) collapses many space-time intervals. . .it shortens the realization journey. Not surprising to me at all, when I opened the very first thread in this website's new Non Duality forum here, called "Joyous Awareness," it generally wasn't very well received as a valid non-duality topic, when in fact cultivating joyous awareness is 100% required and valid in the realization of one's True Nature.

You are intuitively well aware of this, I know, being quite joy-oriented yourself.

A message for all: There can be no "clear seeing" without joy. Not possible. Love/joy is the very basis of liberation.

Namaste, all. :hug3:

eputkonen
17-07-2017, 04:49 PM
You speak as if to say you have reached an end point called "liberation" or "realization."

Fact: You/we are still awakening, of course.

No, there is no process occurring of increasing liberation, awakening, etc. Are you still trying to come to terms with 2 + 2 = 4? Are you still in process of realizing this? Process is an illusion...process means you are denying in some way or have not clearly seen...you either realize who/what you are...or you haven't yet.

There is no "beyond the Earth plan"...that is all duality - that "you" will continue to exist and there is a plan for "you". All the levels are duality...it is illusion. There is no awakening journey...that journey itself is the illusion of bondage.

I am awake...I am free and know I never was in bondage. This is called liberation. There is only the Self and I am That.

WeRDivine
17-07-2017, 05:21 PM
No, there is no process occurring of increasing liberation, awakening, etc. Are you still trying to come to terms with 2 + 2 = 4? Are you still in process of realizing this? Process is an illusion...process means you are denying in some way or have not clearly seen...you either realize who/what you are...or you haven't yet.

There is no "beyond the Earth plan"...that is all duality - that "you" will continue to exist and there is a plan for "you". All the levels are duality...it is illusion. There is no awakening journey...that journey itself is the illusion of bondage.

I am awake...I am free and know I never was in bondage. This is called liberation. There is only the Self and I am That.

Just want to say you opened my eyes up big time. I read some of your blog and I learned just to be myself. There is no wrong or right or up or down or left or right or small or big. There just is. I punch you in the face, that's like punching myself in the face. And that is called karma.So it's best to live a happy life of love. To vibrate at high frequency.

WeRDivine
19-07-2017, 08:35 PM
No, there is no process occurring of increasing liberation, awakening, etc. Are you still trying to come to terms with 2 + 2 = 4? Are you still in process of realizing this? Process is an illusion...process means you are denying in some way or have not clearly seen...you either realize who/what you are...or you haven't yet.

There is no "beyond the Earth plan"...that is all duality - that "you" will continue to exist and there is a plan for "you". All the levels are duality...it is illusion. There is no awakening journey...that journey itself is the illusion of bondage.

I am awake...I am free and know I never was in bondage. This is called liberation. There is only the Self and I am That.

I will admit that there can be insights along the way and some seem very profound. I have had many spiritual experiences and insights prior to awakening. I had the classical mystic experience in which you feel at one with everything. This temporary feeling of oneness could then be claimed as knowledge that we are all one, but oneness was not my day to day understanding. Be clear…I did not say day to day experience. I said day to day understanding. So although I could say I “knew” we were all one…I did not act like someone with that understanding. I was still very much trapped by the mirage of ego. The experience came and went, but I still felt I was a someone in the body/mind.

Some of these insights can also take you to very dark places. For example, if you realized that there really is not point or purpose to life. This is a realization one can have and it could cause someone to lose all desire and motivations. Some may even commit suicide…seeing life as pointless and not worth living. The problem is this passing experience or insight is glanced, but you still believe you are the ego. The ego can’t handle life without a point or purpose.

The point of life is to be happy, have fun, be whatever you want to be. I suggest be child-like in this playground we call earth. You'd love it. Root for a sports team, watch movies, jam out to any kind of music that makes you happy, go to Disney World. Stimulate your 5 senses. It is what they are there for.

And you are correct, that everything is all one.

Iamit
20-07-2017, 01:43 AM
Realization of who/what we are brings the end to suffering.

Let’s say you are locked in a dark room and you see a shape on the floor that looks like a snake. You would worry, fear, and basically suffer…all the while you are stuck in this dark room. But if the light was turned on for…but for a few seconds, you could see it is a piece rope. Then the light goes off again, and yet the fear and worry do not return. You have realized that what you are seeing is a piece of rope. It no longer fools you…even if the darkness returns.

There is no difficulty in living the recognition of the “snake” being a piece of rope. The difficulty lies in if it is not truly realized and it still remains unknown for what it truly really is. Instead you caught a glimpse of that shape in the light and it looked like it might not have been a snake…but the glimpse was not enough to truly be sure…and so there is still doubt. And so although you want to live from the recognition of it being a piece of rope…you are still not really sure and think it still could be snake. The illusion only truly falls away when there is full realization…not a passing glimpse that is not fully recognized and so can be doubted.

The illusion of "me" is the basis of all suffering (mentally created hurt beyond physical pain via the nerves of the body). If there is a seeing through illusion of "me"...the mirage - although still apparent - no longer causes confusion and suffering.

Who and what we are, including our suffering, is already Oneness if it is accepted that Oneness is the only reality, and our total connection unavoidable. If that is not accepted then indeed there there many things to do.

:)

eputkonen
20-07-2017, 12:52 PM
Who and what we are, including our suffering, is already Oneness if it is accepted that Oneness is the only reality, and our total connection unavoidable. If that is not accepted then indeed there there many things to do.

:)

And that is why there is a small difference between Oneness and Enlightenment/Awakening. Because on an intellectual level you can kind of get Oneness and what it means...but then still be identified with the body/mind/ego and still say that is Oneness as well (being identified with body/mind/ego and suffering). However, if you realized there is no ego (it is just a thought) and realized you are not this body/mind (the identification is just a thought)...you would directly realize there is only Oneness. When this happens, suffering ends. That is Enlightenment/Awakening.

To directly realize and understand there is only Oneness means no longer resisting what is...which is suffering. If you are still resisting and having problems, then you still have not really realized that there is only Oneness. Oneness is merely a mental concept that is believed.

Iamit
22-07-2017, 12:51 AM
And that is why there is a small difference between Oneness and Enlightenment/Awakening. Because on an intellectual level you can kind of get Oneness and what it means...but then still be identified with the body/mind/ego and still say that is Oneness as well (being identified with body/mind/ego and suffering). However, if you realized there is no ego (it is just a thought) and realized you are not this body/mind (the identification is just a thought)...you would directly realize there is only Oneness. When this happens, suffering ends. That is Enlightenment/Awakening.

To directly realize and understand there is only Oneness means no longer resisting what is...which is suffering. If you are still resisting and having problems, then you still have not really realized that there is only Oneness. Oneness is merely a mental concept that is believed.

It depends on the nature of the concern. If the concern is defined as wanting an end to the feeling of connection, then seeing any of what you describe is not necessary. If there is a resonance that Oneness is the only reality, it must already be Oneness not realizing so no need to realize anything for the purpose of connection.

Ahriman
05-09-2017, 09:29 PM
Just want to say you opened my eyes up big time. I read some of your blog and I learned just to be myself. There is no wrong or right or up or down or left or right or small or big. There just is. I punch you in the face, that's like punching myself in the face. And that is called karma.So it's best to live a happy life of love. To vibrate at high frequency.

How do you figure that punching someone in the face is the same as punching yourself in the face? If I punch someone in the face, they're the one that gets hurt, unless of course they hit me back.

Ahriman
05-09-2017, 09:45 PM
When it comes to the end of suffering, any solution that doesn't include ALL humans it pretty much useless, and a waste of time. I really don't think any humans have been able to completely transcend all forms of suffering, as least not whilst alive.

Badcopyinc
05-09-2017, 10:59 PM
I am awake...I am free and know I never was in bondage. This is called liberation. There is only the Self and I am That.

In a sense "I" am completely with all "you" said but the above.

So to clarify I'd like to ask you a question.

Who is the "self", who is "I" you refer to?


"I" would also like to inquire as to you stating that you're awake. Do you believe that you were once asleep and now that you've learned the end to suffering you're now awake?

Iamit
06-09-2017, 03:00 AM
Realization of who/what we are brings the end to suffering.

Let’s say you are locked in a dark room and you see a shape on the floor that looks like a snake. You would worry, fear, and basically suffer…all the while you are stuck in this dark room. But if the light was turned on for…but for a few seconds, you could see it is a piece rope. Then the light goes off again, and yet the fear and worry do not return. You have realized that what you are seeing is a piece of rope. It no longer fools you…even if the darkness returns.

There is no difficulty in living the recognition of the “snake” being a piece of rope. The difficulty lies in if it is not truly realized and it still remains unknown for what it truly really is. Instead you caught a glimpse of that shape in the light and it looked like it might not have been a snake…but the glimpse was not enough to truly be sure…and so there is still doubt. And so although you want to live from the recognition of it being a piece of rope…you are still not really sure and think it still could be snake. The illusion only truly falls away when there is full realization…not a passing glimpse that is not fully recognized and so can be doubted.

The illusion of "me" is the basis of all suffering (mentally created hurt beyond physical pain via the nerves of the body). If there is a seeing through illusion of "me"...the mirage - although still apparent - no longer causes confusion and suffering.

Not seeing through the illusion of me and not realizing are already Oneness manifest.

iamthat
06-09-2017, 07:54 AM
If there is a resonance that Oneness is the only reality, it must already be Oneness not realizing so no need to realize anything for the purpose of connection.

Ah, Iamit, there is a huge difference between the thought of Oneness and the realisation of Oneness.

The realisation of Oneness is a state of Being. If you have not realised this for yourself then all you have is an idea.

The thought of Oneness is just a passing flicker in the mind, which has nothing to do with the realisation.

To use a very inadequate analogy, it is the difference between looking at a menu and actually eating the food. You can die of starvation while looking at the menu.

Peace.

Iamit
06-09-2017, 11:28 AM
Ah, Iamit, there is a huge difference between the thought of Oneness and the realisation of Oneness.

The realisation of Oneness is a state of Being. If you have not realised this for yourself then all you have is an idea.

The thought of Oneness is just a passing flicker in the mind, which has nothing to do with the realisation.

To use a very inadequate analogy, it is the difference between looking at a menu and actually eating the food. You can die of starvation while looking at the menu.

Peace.

Everything is already the REALisation of Oneness. What is being said is that the content of what arises has no significance. Whatever it is, IS already Oneness. You cant get more Oneness or increase it in any way.

The realization you speak of is no more Oneness that not realizing! However if the desire is to get rid of feeling disconnected, ALL must be included as Oneness manifest, particularly all aspects of oneself, including you not realizing!!!

WeRDivine
24-05-2018, 01:06 PM
How do you figure that punching someone in the face is the same as punching yourself in the face? If I punch someone in the face, they're the one that gets hurt, unless of course they hit me back.

You are right. I could return a hug to you if you punched me in the face. I don't know much. I'm just taking in stuff.

sentient
24-05-2018, 08:26 PM
How do you figure that punching someone in the face is the same as punching yourself in the face? If I punch someone in the face, they're the one that gets hurt, unless of course they hit me back.

A few quotes about anger comes to mind:
Getting angry is punishing yourself for the mistakes of others.

Holding onto anger is like drinking poison and expecting the other person to die.

Anger is an acid that can do more harm to the vessel in which it is stored than to anything on which it is poured.

EnlightenedPursuits
11-06-2018, 03:25 AM
The only question is therefore...

...how do we turn on that light!

Tomma
11-06-2018, 04:12 AM
The only question is therefore...

...how do we turn on that light!

Yup! :hug3: Very good question.

ajay00
12-06-2018, 01:09 AM
The illusion of "me" is the basis of all suffering (mentally created hurt beyond physical pain via the nerves of the body). If there is a seeing through illusion of "me"...the mirage - although still apparent - no longer causes confusion and suffering.

This is very well put. The 'I','me' and 'mine' for most unawakened people are just thoughts stemming from false identifications with a lot of emotional energy invested in it. Present moment Awareness helps to bring an end to this false identification and anchors one in his or her true identity of Self or Being.

All conflicts are of a personal,emotional nature. Awareness helps depersonalise all thoughts and emotions, getting rid of the reactive or negative emotional charge necessary for fostering conflict, vicious behavior and disharmony.

The Mughal emperor Akbar had a bad habit of getting angry rapidly and issuing erroneous reactive judgements on that account,which became a source of regret and guilt for him later on. He created a new law that no order of his is valid unless it is adhered to for a substantial period of time. This enabled him to gain time to emotionally compose himself to the point of impersonal objectivity, and make necessary corrections to any harsh laws or punishments he prescribed in a fit of passion or emotional agitation.

Joe Mc
20-06-2018, 05:42 AM
Taking an absolute position like there is no gradual awakening or you can't flit between the snake and the rope is just another intellectual position really. It indicates that you have conceptually worked out what this is all about. You have committed yourself to a position, another belief. Intermittent lightening is still lightening and flashing light bulbs are still flashing light bulbs, wouldn't you say its all illumination ? Why would you say it's not awakening ? The rope exists so that one day it will be a snake and the snake a rope.

You might say that taking a stance such as there is gradual awakening and intermittent illumination is just another position and you would be right to say so too. Yes.