Something Said - Something Written - Somthing Passed Along

[Lynn]

Hello

I have been reading up on a lot of "Quote Origins" of late and what I have come to find is there is no way to "prove" its origin as many times it might have been said before times of writing we would understand. We assume we are reading ancient text correctly but are we ? To know we would have to go back in time to learn with someone that language.

So with a quote with someone famous behind it is that truly how they said it or meant it to read ?

There is a good experiment where a group of 10 are given a quote and asked to remember it and to pass it along exactly the same to the next person in line. That person then has to remember it and pass it along til the last person gets it to repeat. By the time it gets to the 10th person most times it is NOT at all like how it started out being said.

I did this in a workshop with a simple "event" of a haunting by the time the 10th person repeated it we are dealing with a "Demonic Possession" being added into the event. We hear one thing and we repeat another thing. I did this again asking that they write down what "event" I had just shared. NO one got it exactly the same as I told it. This was only a sentence long.


Lynn

[firstandlast]

I have found that sometimes what we write, says more than what we meant--

It is like reading a favorite book, having a few years worth of experiences and reading it again, and coming to the conclusion that you might not of even understood it the first time--

I would say this absolutely does occur, because I wrote an entire album of lyrics or poetry and recorded it-- After a few experiences which changed the entire context of being, my whole album changes in meaning with far more depth and understanding than I had when I wrote it--

Sometimes, it is better that we do not try and attempt to understand what was being said; because what it meant to us was far greater-- I taught myself, and I still do this, I read everything I write multiple times and my mind expands--

[naturesflow]

Recreation is part of creation. We are human beings interpreting things as we choose as our part in the co creative process of life. We as humans develop through all that. So even if something resonates as true to us and it isn't valid we will direct our focus there for whatever reason one requires for themselves. Just like your opening to show the validity of origin. That is your focus. We choose our focus in the whole creation.

People are reshuffling, sorting and blending. Listening, not listening. Focused, not focused...it is how life is. Which is why I take information as an opportunity to develop my own creation, rather than using it as solid certainty. It is someone else's creation, I am my own, it can support me to deepen my awareness anywhere I choose to focus.

As for the experiment, focus and where your listening from within yourself comes into play.

[Lorelyen]

Very true and it tends to show how unreliable words are. On receipt of a message it passes through our perceptive processes where it draws on our databases, our repository of experiences to seek out with what it can interlock if at all and thus gets interpreted. Passing it on to someone else will be tinted in some small way by our individual interpretations.

There's a semiotics explanation of the effect - the way we recognise and assimilate signs that to me suggests the content of the quote comes into play. The allusions, adages, comprehensibility etc.

A simply quote - e.g. the three-word Henry Ford: "History is bunk" is easier to pass on just as a quote with little reinterpretation... until someone ponders "What Henry Ford was really trying to say is...."

....

[Greenslade]

We hear one thing and we repeat another thing. I did this again asking that they write down what "event" I had just shared. NO one got it exactly the same as I told it. This was only a sentence long. The Chinese Whispers of Spirituality. While people like Tolle or any other guru can have an understanding of the Spiritual concepts, 'translating' those concepts into words so they can be communicated to and understood by others means that often something is lost. How we interpret his words within our own understanding (or lack of) also means another translation and so on and by the time we talk about it on the forums it's very different to the end result of another person's series of Chinese Whispers. Even going back in time would be problematic because the conscious, language and cultural contexts in which those things were said originally would be very different than they are today.

How would a conversation with Zoroaster about God go? While he is attributed to having come up with the concept did that happen after him having heard 'whispers' of a different kind? Having an understanding of Zoroaster's personal history and how it came to shape that concept is also a part of the Quote Origins. And while you're talking away about what God is or isn't, he's probably sitting there stunned over how his 'quote' has developed and spiraled for over two thousand years.

Does our consciousness come through after a series of Chinese Whispers when we discuss anything in the forums? Even when we have an experience there can be the 'whispers' of perceptions, feelings, beliefs, what to say, how to say it.... Our own 'quotes' have their origins too and often further back than we'd realise. So while Zoroaster is perhaps amazed at how his 'quote' has spiraled we can think about how ours has also spiraled.

[Jyotir]

Hi Lynn,

What you describe is certainly a fundamental problem in human communications - and ironically a major component of why moderators are necessary on any discussion forum.

~ J

[Moonglow]

Hello

I have been reading up on a lot of "Quote Origins" of late and what I have come to find is there is no way to "prove" its origin as many times it might have been said before times of writing we would understand. We assume we are reading ancient text correctly but are we ? To know we would have to go back in time to learn with someone that language.

So with a quote with someone famous behind it is that truly how they said it or meant it to read ?

There is a good experiment where a group of 10 are given a quote and asked to remember it and to pass it along exactly the same to the next person in line. That person then has to remember it and pass it along til the last person gets it to repeat. By the time it gets to the 10th person most times it is NOT at all like how it started out being said.

I did this in a workshop with a simple "event" of a haunting by the time the 10th person repeated it we are dealing with a "Demonic Possession" being added into the event. We hear one thing and we repeat another thing. I did this again asking that they write down what "event" I had just shared. NO one got it exactly the same as I told it. This was only a sentence long.


Lynn

Hi Lynn,

Things said or written can be taken out of context.

One may take a snippet out of speech, lecture, or piece of writing that he/she likes or strikes a chord with them. But, what that snippet is or was referring to may include the full speech, lecture, or writing in order to grasp a full understanding, IMO.

Some quotes are catchy and would say can stand on their own. Others I feel if the person who said it is unknown or the context in which it was expressed is not understood, then the meaning can be either up for interpretation or lost all together.

Yes and something that has been translated from another language, to me, can get a bit lost in translation.

See it reflected in forums as well. Someone may post something and another may just quote a portion of what was expressed in order to support a point of view, express how much he/she liked that bit, or develop an argument.

I think what you present is good reflection upon how much we may listen to each other and how things can get distorted and are retained in our minds.

[shiningstars]

Hi Lynn,

What you describe is certainly a fundamental problem in human communications - and ironically a major component of why moderators are necessary on any discussion forum.

~ J

This [particular] forum does not moderate authenticity.

[shiningstars]

To the OP:

From a "spiritual" sense, I would say that when in the hands of the True, all speech is true, but when repeated from the ego, even aTruth is but falsehood.

shiningstars