the art of true love

[Heart]

to really truly know the meaning of love is to.... accept it in your heart, willingly and then to let it go again.
You are then expressing love and allowing that expression to grow and evolve without being attached to its results
it is the expectation of getting something out of it that makes it hurt because you can never truly own love, but you can express it and give it out to others
true love in all its wisdom may find you worthy of its attention if you so choose to let it so in a state of humility, courage and surrender

Remember this formula…

suffering is love un-recognised, recognized love is suffering

both extremities need each other in mirror form as a reflection of the energy behind it, when it is seen this way we are letting it go

[Justme1981]

I don't see love as suffering, nor do I see suffering in any way attached to love. Suffering is suffering; there is no love in it. There is willpower, there is knowing you are entitled to more.

But love is love with all it's perfections and any imperfections is love unrealized. That's it.

We all have a twin flame, a soul mate. I've met and love and live with mine and we do not make each other suffer. We just love. If you have not met your soulmate or twin flame, let me help.

Your twin flame is a woman who you met when you were young and passed away when you were five, you remember her in your heart and you will be reunited with her again. For now, be the man your soulmate would want. Aspire to be the best man you can be when you meet her again.

[Justme1981]

And if you develop telepathy you can talk to her; you are essentially a medium and more when you develop telepathy. You can even be with her romantically. You will be together for eternity, so why not. You always were together and you always were with her. So, of course any hiccup in an imperfect place like this which is just psychological torture will be remedied when you reunite with her for eternity.

If you want me to show you how to develop telepathy I will. I've written it many times with Clover not wanting to address it. She, she will know how to be with you romantically. You always were and you always were with her.

Be safe with love because love with suffering is not your twin flame. You have a twin flame as Socrates predicted. How can Socrates be wrong? He was right about everything else.

[Heart]

I don't see love as suffering, nor do I see suffering in any way attached to love. Suffering is suffering; there is no love in it. There is willpower, there is knowing you are entitled to more.

But love is love with all it's perfections and any imperfections is love unrealized. That's it.

We all have a twin flame, a soul mate. I've met and love and live with mine and we do not make each other suffer. We just love. If you have not met your soulmate or twin flame, let me help.

Your twin flame is a woman who you met when you were young and passed away when you were five, you remember her in your heart and you will be reunited with her again. For now, be the man your soulmate would want. Aspire to be the best man you can be when you meet her again.

True love is the art of living without. hence the saying 'Absence makes the heart grow fonder".

try to see beyond the norm and you will see where my words are coming from

[Heart]

the countless stories of twin flames and soulmates are endowed with love.... and.... suffering so your point is not quite understood if you are unaware of loves power to hurt you. and what about those countless individuals that have killed in the name of love. Wars have been created ,blood and tears to fill an ocean... in the name of love?

see beyond the phisical to know that when you are in love you are suffering

[Heart]

I quote these phrases from the www

aching heart
break (someone`s) heart
cross one`s heart and hope to die
die of a broken heart
have a heart of stone
heart bleeds for (someone)
heart is dead set against (something)
heavy heart
pour one's heart out (to someone)

there are countless ways for love to hurt

[pdizzle45]

I like to explore my heart chakra when feeling love. There are many ways to define love verbally, but really, its that feeling in your heart that words simply can't explain. When it comes to feeling true love, I can't find the words to describe it. But when you feel it, you just know :)

[Starman]

heart, I think you are talking about conditional love, or love based on conditions;
unconditional love is another matter. I have wondered why it is some people love their pet
animals more than they may love other human beings. I think it is because an animal, that is
a domesticated animal, gives love unconditionally.

Unconditional love has a presence all its’ own; it does not need to be expressed and it is love
for the sake of love without having an object, or person, to love. To love without having
something or someone to love. To be in love with life itself; absorbed in love without a reason to love.
These are the beginnings of unconditional love.

All of us have an incredibly blissful, rich and thick, overwhelmingly unfathomable source of love right
within us; and we can get in touch with it and bathe in it at our pleasure. When you pay homage to
your deeper being that deeper being repays you with peace, inner comfort, and love. It is what we
are beyond the shadow play.:D

[naturesflow]

to really truly know the meaning of love is to.... accept it in your heart, willingly and then to let it go again.
You are then expressing love and allowing that expression to grow and evolve without being attached to its results
it is the expectation of getting something out of it that makes it hurt because you can never truly own love, but you can express it and give it out to others
true love in all its wisdom may find you worthy of its attention if you so choose to let it so in a state of humility, courage and surrender

Remember this formula…

suffering is love un-recognised, recognized love is suffering

both extremities need each other in mirror form as a reflection of the energy behind it, when it is seen this way we are letting it go

(what is love?)

[naturesflow]

QUOTE=Justme1981]I don't see love as suffering, nor do I see suffering in any way attached to love. Suffering is suffering; there is no love in it. There is willpower, there is knowing you are entitled to more. [/QUOTE]

In the many awareness stages of opening to what humans call love and in the many forms of suffering that humans call suffering, there are experiences, feelings, situations and realizations, all created as a whole and through each point or focus which reveal itself in all that. Which is why if looking into each experience of all this as it is and told by the one experiencing it as they are, it will be what it is for each one and constantly changing as one becomes more aware and realizes more. One can experience love and also endure suffering. In extreme cases it can be extreme one side and minimal on the other. So potentially when the balance of both is more one sided it often depicts an extreme view. Of course looking at both separately, we see that too can show what each one is and what is housed within each one. So naturally one could write a book about either subject and another about both together. Then of course one could ask what is suffering? What is love? Is their only one way and one model of both, or is the experience and understanding a greater perspective that many of us can only acknowledge as so, more than we can at the experience level. Each piece is inclusive in the whole understanding. So where does one begin?

But love is love with all it's perfections and any imperfections is love unrealized. That's it.



We all have a twin flame, a soul mate. I've met and love and live with mine and we do not make each other suffer. We just love. If you have not met your soulmate or twin flame, let me help.

Your twin flame is a woman who you met when you were young and passed away when you were five, you remember her in your heart and you will be reunited with her again. For now, be the man your soulmate would want. Aspire to be the best man you can be when you meet her again.

[naturesflow]

to really truly know the meaning of love is to.... accept it in your heart, willingly and then to let it go again.
You are then expressing love and allowing that expression to grow and evolve without being attached to its results
it is the expectation of getting something out of it that makes it hurt because you can never truly own love, but you can express it and give it out to others
true love in all its wisdom may find you worthy of its attention if you so choose to let it so in a state of humility, courage and surrender


Living unattached and open to what is, allows for yourself to be open to life in the many ways of your own deepening and experiencing, all the while holding no expectations upon the thing you love or what loves you. I call this living unattached in yourself to what is. It also creates the path of least resistance to what is. It also allows for connection to develop more open and free of itself. For you and another or you and your life experience in some form. I call this unconditional love, which loves and is love for no reason.

Remember this formula…

suffering is love un-recognised, recognized love is suffering




What do you mean by recognised love is suffering?

both extremities need each other in mirror form as a reflection of the energy behind it, when it is seen this way we are letting it go

[Heart]

heart, I think you are talking about conditional love, or love based on conditions;
unconditional love is another matter. I have wondered why it is some people love their pet
animals more than they may love other human beings. I think it is because an animal, that is
a domesticated animal, gives love unconditionally.

Unconditional love has a presence all its’ own; it does not need to be expressed and it is love
for the sake of love without having an object, or person, to love. To love without having
something or someone to love. To be in love with life itself; absorbed in love without a reason to love.
These are the beginnings of unconditional love.

All of us have an incredibly blissful, rich and thick, overwhelmingly unfathomable source of love right
within us; and we can get in touch with it and bathe in it at our pleasure. When you pay homage to
your deeper being that deeper being repays you with peace, inner comfort, and love. It is what we
are beyond the shadow play.:D


Smile…. I have chosen my words above very carefully so that not one word would be used to describe a conditioned state of loving. Each word is placed in its position to allow the reader a chance to see love in its true form and how it moves in and around us in the form of energy. I will for the sake of knowing take my words above and question it…..

‘to really truly know the meaning of love is to.... accept it in your heart, willingly and then to let it go again.’
What is it like to accept love in your heart? Then willingly let it go? How is this achieved? What is it that is gained by letting it go? And then repeating it again? What is the point of even doing this? And what is the outcome if any would there be if you tried to accept and let that love you hold so dear go?

‘You are then expressing love and allowing that expression to grow and evolve without being attached to its results’
So here I have given you the answer, I thus will clarify in question form… what is it like to grow and evolve without being attached to its results? How is love expressed in the way I have described above? How does love grow and evolve? why does love need to grow /evolve? Why would love have results that we are so easily attached too? What would those results be and how would that be defined in their effect over us?
‘it is the expectation of getting something out of it that makes it hurt because you can never truly own love, but you can express it and give it out to others’
Here I am sharing the answer to the attachment to results…. Would it be agreeable that in expecting something to happen it can and usually will lead to disappointments? What happens when we feel that love is ours to own? How would or should we express this love so it is given to all out there”

‘true love in all its wisdom may find you worthy of its attention if you so choose to let it so in a state of humility, courage and surrender’
Here I am sharing the truth that love is an intelligence, if you listen to it, will shower you with its intentions, it is when you are humble and courageous will it find you…. But what does it mean to you when I use the word…… surrender?

‘Remember this formula…
suffering is love un-recognised, recognized love is suffering
both extremities need each other in mirror form as a reflection of the energy behind it, when it is seen this way we are letting it go’
Why is love associated with suffering? As such I quote this saying… ‘all is fair in love and war,’ why is it that after such destruction to life are there baby booms? What is love unrecognised? Is it not strange for I to say ‘recognised love’? what would that imply?

I personally had to experience…… Well….. words fail to describe the onslaught of emotional spiritual upheaval I had to go through to realise that letting go and surrendering to loves intentions is all I needed to do. I still suffered… immensely, yet for it, it is respected and thus I share with it what I know and experienced, my story is just one of billions of people to some it will ring true for others a garbled mangled words of meaningless jargon, and Im cool with that

[Heart]

(what is love?)

L - Lots

O - Of

V - Virgin

E - Energy

[Heart]

Living unattached and open to what is, allows for yourself to be open to life in the many ways of your own deepening and experiencing, all the while holding no expectations upon the thing you love or what loves you. I call this living unattached in yourself to what is. It also creates the path of least resistance to what is. It also allows for connection to develop more open and free of itself. For you and another or you and your life experience in some form. I call this unconditional love, which loves and is love for no reason.






What do you mean by recognised love is suffering?

thank you for your understanding. your words reflect what Im trying and failing to get across lol.

recognised love is knowing love from a distance yet even in this we can never truly be apart, I could have just said, 'absence makes the heart grow fonder'
but where is the fun in saying something already used

[naturesflow]

L - Lots

O - Of

V - Virgin

E - Energy


L - Loyal

O- Open

V - Vital

E - Endearing

[naturesflow]

recognised love is knowing love from a distance yet even in this we can never truly be apart, I could have just said, 'absence makes the heart grow fonder'
but where is the fun in saying something already used


thankyou I see now what you mean. This is how I reflect on this now I have your reflection.
Connection in love never leaves, it creates a stream of love in the love it creates from that point of it's creation, so what becomes, leads itself into the world, wherever it is being that creation. Same goes with everything we all create. Ripples of what is.

[Heart]

I like to explore my heart chakra when feeling love. There are many ways to define love verbally, but really, its that feeling in your heart that words simply can't explain. When it comes to feeling true love, I can't find the words to describe it. But when you feel it, you just know :)

your heart resonates in tune with universal loving energy, it is directed to no one in particular yet it is expressed in a warm and loving way for all to know, it never goes away so you know it to be true love when it comes from within your heart

this is what I am trying to explain but as you say... words do it no justice,

[Heart]

L - Loyal

O- Open

V - Vital

E - Endearing


L - lots

O - Of

L - Laughs

lol

[naturesflow]

L - lots

O - Of

L - Laughs

lol


Love
Opens
Veils
Eloquently

[thebeautifulsacred]

to really truly know the meaning of love is to.... accept it in your heart, willingly and then to let it go again.
You are then expressing love and allowing that expression to grow and evolve without being attached to its results
it is the expectation of getting something out of it that makes it hurt because you can never truly own love, but you can express it and give it out to others
true love in all its wisdom may find you worthy of its attention if you so choose to let it so in a state of humility, courage and surrender

Remember this formula…

suffering is love un-recognised, recognized love is suffering

both extremities need each other in mirror form as a reflection of the energy behind it, when it is seen this way we are letting it go
That was beautiful. :) However, I disagree with the last part. I would say that the art of true love involves sacrifice but not necessarily suffering.

[Baile]

I would say that the art of true love involves sacrifice but not necessarily suffering.Nice, sacrifice. True love never suffers, that would be my observation. And sacrifice for me isn't right in that sacrifice implies something I would hold back for myself in another circumstance. Whereas I see it more as an offering arising from the natural desire to give over to the other.

[keokutah]

I don't think any humans on earth are capable of feeling or expressing real unconditional love when everything is quite out of alignment and their frequency is lowered. They are still part of the collective unconsciousness.

[Baile]

I don't think any humans on earth are capable of feeling or expressing true love yet, their frequency is not high enough yet. They are still part of the collective unconsciousness.What is the so-called frequency line that determines "love" versus "true love"? Consciousness is only ever by degrees. Enlightenment isn't some level of understanding or a specific consciousness point one reaches, it's the ongoing and never-ending process of self-realization. Likewise love is something that grows and increases as one comes to an ever-greater understanding of what love is, and what it means to step into life with love. Because love is action. It is a life activity, not a mind concept.

[thebeautifulsacred]

Nice, sacrifice. True love never suffers, that would be my observation. And sacrifice for me isn't right in that sacrifice implies something I would hold back for myself in another circumstance. Whereas I see it more as an offering arising from the natural desire to give over to the other.
I used to view sacrifice as you say, something to be avoided at all costs. But recently, I've come to view sacrifice as freely giving of oneself to another.

[Heart]

That was beautiful. :) However, I disagree with the last part. I would say that the art of true love involves sacrifice but not necessarily suffering.


This is the reason for the words I chose. I wrote this on SF before it crashed in 2009 at a time when I was experiencing something deeply personal spiritual and loving..... please enjoy..


As you may… or may not know from recent threads I started about falling in love with someone who is already in a relationship. I took quite a long time to ‘control’ my feelings for this beautiful woman with whom I would have and still do so dearly want to spend the rest of my life with…. Without question

I would love to share my experience with you…. On a spiritual note of course.. smile. For the betterment of those who are willing to listen I write this from the bottom of my heart….

Now I ask you… what is about beautiful women who work in petrol stations? I tell you it’s a real heart breaker especially as they all seem to be in some kind of relationship
I fall head over heals in love with them, its quite a crazy feeling, and even now I do not know why I fall for them other than I just do, and no it not because they are alone and defenseless against my charms, (rolling eyes) I seem to pick women who are quite strong willed and dependent, so what ever charms I may have do not work on them, besides I feel a lot better just creating small talk rather than trying to make an impression that I am someone worth being with… one step at a time eh.

I will admit I am a man with needs and that makes me no different to any other man in that department, I am also spiritual by nature so I am subjective (personal) in my approach to ‘falling in love’. I still desire female company, passion and lust are there too, but I will stop and think about it and ask the great but little question ….. why?

Im sorry for being direct but honesty is required, I publicly declare it so,

These feelings and desires never really go away, they stick around, at first they are so strong they can be literally overwhelming, I just cant speak, I freeze in front of this person, kinda like stage fright, I can quite easily make stupid comments, and basically make a complete fool of myself, In her eyes she is probably thinking im some crazed baboon which to be honest I wouldn’t blame her

The key to controlling it is to acknowledge your own feelings towards this person there and then and remain as grounded as you can, and if it is necessary smile and walk away. I have to use the petrol station on a weekly basis where this woman works, so I get a lot of chances to ‘observe’ how I feel and why I feel for this person, it’s a huge learning curve believe me, wanting to be with someone and yet holding back on all my instincts to be with her, one factor is she has a boyfriend, I don’t see this as a hindrance but a blessing, after all who am I to get in between them, I am on a mission to understand ‘why’ even if I get hurt in the process, It is said, as long as you don’t hurt someone else you can do anything you want, so I make it clear to the reader this woman and her partner will not be hurt

Only I am experiencing love for this woman She presently has very little or no idea how I feel, if she does I hope it is taken as a compliment.

On a spiritual level she is showing me what I already have within my own heart my own soul, just realizing this, lust and passion and desire can be transcended, the idea of being with this woman can then be realized, but this takes time and healing…

She will remain in my heart and soul for an eternity, this love will never perish for as long as I live and she will be the last person I will think of when I die she has given so much I wouldn’t know how to ever pay her back for what she has shown to reside in my heart

True love holds no bounds, it has no limits, it is eternal and everlasting it is not governed by who you are with or with whom you want to be with, A relationship starts and will end but true love will most certainly survive beyond all bonds of friendship

I am forever humbled by this beautiful person

[Heart]

looking through my spiritual journal I find the following, hopefully it is of help to those who are looking for clarity in the last few paragraphs in my first post....

There is boundless love in ones heart when you experience a very deep level of longing that is very hard to define, it is like a beckoning towards something that you cant describe or a wordless voice that is calling you from afar deep within your heart, the more you listen with your inner spiritual ear the more intense it gets, it is like being asked to do something yet you know not what it is your heart is saying.

As you open up to the expression of who you truly are, especially through the heart chakra there is an expression of deep sadness, this is because you are connecting to the collective consciousness of all who are suffering… it is as if your heart is reaching out to all and everyone who is deeply sad, it is the expression of deep understanding and compassion towards others that is felt and it hurts.

[Starman]

‘Remember this formula…
suffering is love un-recognised, recognized love is suffering
both extremities need each other in mirror form as a reflection of the energy behind it, when it is seen this way we are letting it go’
Why is love associated with suffering? As such I quote this saying… ‘all is fair in love and war,’ why is it that after such destruction to life are there baby booms? What is love unrecognised? Is it not strange for I to say ‘recognised love’? what would that imply?
I surely thank you for sharing your perspective, and I feel like there are as many descriptions of love as
there are people on earth. For me, love and suffering are possibly two extremes of the same quality;
in essence duality. For me divine love is omnipresent and removed from duality. But I do understand that we
all have our particular views on this. Peace and good journey to you.:smile:

[naturesflow]

I used to view sacrifice as you say, something to be avoided at all costs. But recently, I've come to view sacrifice as freely giving of oneself to another.


Yes. When I was awakening deeper at the core of myself, self sacrifice arose in the movements within me. I feared it on some level because I thought it meant I would have to give up myself to be engaged at that level of myself. Over time and integration through those deeper fears, I realized that self sacrifice was something much deeper and more open, more free and more willing to share with others. It has nothing attached to itself. The loss and fear were only holding in place the limitations I placed on love and loving.

Love has no limits.

[naturesflow]

This is the reason for the words I chose. I wrote this on SF before it crashed in 2009 at a time when I was experiencing something deeply personal spiritual and loving..... please enjoy..


As you may… or may not know from recent threads I started about falling in love with someone who is already in a relationship. I took quite a long time to ‘control’ my feelings for this beautiful woman with whom I would have and still do so dearly want to spend the rest of my life with…. Without question

I would love to share my experience with you…. On a spiritual note of course.. smile. For the betterment of those who are willing to listen I write this from the bottom of my heart….

Now I ask you… what is about beautiful women who work in petrol stations? I tell you it’s a real heart breaker especially as they all seem to be in some kind of relationship
I fall head over heals in love with them, its quite a crazy feeling, and even now I do not know why I fall for them other than I just do, and no it not because they are alone and defenseless against my charms, (rolling eyes) I seem to pick women who are quite strong willed and dependent, so what ever charms I may have do not work on them, besides I feel a lot better just creating small talk rather than trying to make an impression that I am someone worth being with… one step at a time eh.

I will admit I am a man with needs and that makes me no different to any other man in that department, I am also spiritual by nature so I am subjective (personal) in my approach to ‘falling in love’. I still desire female company, passion and lust are there too, but I will stop and think about it and ask the great but little question ….. why?

Im sorry for being direct but honesty is required, I publicly declare it so,

These feelings and desires never really go away, they stick around, at first they are so strong they can be literally overwhelming, I just cant speak, I freeze in front of this person, kinda like stage fright, I can quite easily make stupid comments, and basically make a complete fool of myself, In her eyes she is probably thinking im some crazed baboon which to be honest I wouldn’t blame her

The key to controlling it is to acknowledge your own feelings towards this person there and then and remain as grounded as you can, and if it is necessary smile and walk away. I have to use the petrol station on a weekly basis where this woman works, so I get a lot of chances to ‘observe’ how I feel and why I feel for this person, it’s a huge learning curve believe me, wanting to be with someone and yet holding back on all my instincts to be with her, one factor is she has a boyfriend, I don’t see this as a hindrance but a blessing, after all who am I to get in between them, I am on a mission to understand ‘why’ even if I get hurt in the process, It is said, as long as you don’t hurt someone else you can do anything you want, so I make it clear to the reader this woman and her partner will not be hurt

Only I am experiencing love for this woman She presently has very little or no idea how I feel, if she does I hope it is taken as a compliment.

On a spiritual level she is showing me what I already have within my own heart my own soul, just realizing this, lust and passion and desire can be transcended, the idea of being with this woman can then be realized, but this takes time and healing…

She will remain in my heart and soul for an eternity, this love will never perish for as long as I live and she will be the last person I will think of when I die she has given so much I wouldn’t know how to ever pay her back for what she has shown to reside in my heart

True love holds no bounds, it has no limits, it is eternal and everlasting it is not governed by who you are with or with whom you want to be with, A relationship starts and will end but true love will most certainly survive beyond all bonds of friendship

I am forever humbled by this beautiful person


Love is best seen as devotion and action, not an emotion. Love is not exclusively based on how we feel. Certainly our emotions are involved, but they cannot be our only criteria for love. True devotion will always lead to action—true love -http://www.christiananswers.net/q-dml/dml-y030.html


Dear children, let us not love with words or tongue but with ACTIONS and in truth -John 3:18

[thebeautifulsacred]

looking through my spiritual journal I find the following, hopefully it is of help to those who are looking for clarity in the last few paragraphs in my first post....

There is boundless love in ones heart when you experience a very deep level of longing that is very hard to define, it is like a beckoning towards something that you cant describe or a wordless voice that is calling you from afar deep within your heart, the more you listen with your inner spiritual ear the more intense it gets, it is like being asked to do something yet you know not what it is your heart is saying.
Thank you for sharing that. :) I really resonated with it.

[Baile]

I used to view sacrifice as you say, something to be avoided at all costs. But recently, I've come to view sacrifice as freely giving of oneself to another.Parents sacrifice for their kids. So not something to be avoided. But the meaning of sacrifice is something given up or lost. I sacrifice/lose nothing in freely offering out of love, that is my point.

[thebeautifulsacred]

Yes. When I was awakening deeper at the core of myself, self sacrifice arose in the movements within me. I feared it on some level because I thought it meant I would have to give up myself to be engaged at that level of myself. Over time and integration through those deeper fears, I realized that self sacrifice was something much deeper and more open, more free and more willing to share with others. It has nothing attached to itself. The loss and fear were only holding in place the limitations I placed on love and loving.

Love has no limits.
Exactly! :D What an experience. Thanks for sharing.

[naturesflow]

Exactly! :D What an experience. Thanks for sharing.

I found a fairly extensive article on this subject which covers a whole range of understandings tied into sacrifice.

Its pretty in depth but worth reading.


Anyone who thinks of this pure self-sacrifice more closely must answer four questions: How is giving to be understood? What is the reality of death? What is the appropriate concept of the self? What are the background ontological circumstances against which the sacrificial gesture would be situated?



one should note here, in addition, that if the ethical only arises in response to that fragility which in extremis is the death of the other, then the ethical is, ontologically speaking, something merely secondary and reactive. Far from it appearing to be the case, as some would wish, that the good lies beyond being, the good would on this construal rather seem to be distinctly less than being. In other words, only when being begins to suffer does it instigate the good.

But here one might suggest that a vision of morality as a reaction to the threat of death is less a transcription of monotheism than a reversion to the heroic morality of Homeric times. Against this morality, Socrates, in Plato’s Phaedo, insists that warriors who die for the city out of fear for their own death or the death of others in the city, or fear of loss of honor, are sacrificially trading a lesser fear of dying in battle for a greater fear of shame, loss of nobility, and the loss of the city itself. By contrast, says Socrates, the philosopher is a person who begins with absolute confidence, with a vision of eternal truth, goodness, and beauty, and with his own psychic kinship to these abiding forms. For this reason, the philosopher can act positively, truly without fear even unto death (avoiding the merely apparent fearlessness that is in thrall to an even greater fear). He is good, not primarily as acting, but as knowing, or as receiving and recognizing the realm of the forms as that which is most real. No sacrifice is involved here, since the body and lower passions given up are less intense degrees of being, truth, and goodness; the absolute degree of these things includes the reality of the lower, and so nothing is truly lost - https://www.firstthings.com/article/1999/03/004-the-ethics-of-self-sacrifice

[Heart]

Thank you for sharing that. :) I really resonated with it.

You are most welcome

[jimrich]

IMcurrentO, all such discussions revolve around who/what we are or believe we are.
to really truly know the meaning of love is to.... accept it in your heart, willingly and then to let it go again. You are then expressing love and allowing that expression to grow and evolve without being attached to its results
Who/what is the you in that statement? Is this 'you' a personal egoic self or is this 'you' the Real Self. If it's the persona ego, there will be trouble no matter what that ego does with love but if it's the Real Self, all will be well because the Real self IS LOVE!

it is the expectation of getting something out of it that makes it hurt because you can never truly own love, but you can express it and give it out to others true love in all its wisdom may find you worthy of its attention if you so choose to let it so in a state of humility, courage and surrender
That all seems well and good but only if this undefined 'you' is the Source or Real self otherwise none of it makes any sense nor will it ever work. The personal ego is INCAPABLE of having or expressing genuine, healthy love in any form whatsoever.
Remember this formula…

suffering is love un-recognised, recognized love is suffering
I say that ego identity is suffering and selfless identity is LOVE.

both extremities need each other in mirror form as a reflection of the energy behind it, when it is seen this way we are letting it go
If the 'energy' behind it is of the Divine Source, love will be there and can work its loving miracles but if this is egoic energy, SUFFERING will be there.
It always comes down to who/what is in the drama.

[Heart]

IMcurrentO, all such discussions revolve around who/what we are or believe we are.

Who/what is the you in that statement? Is this 'you' a personal egoic self or is this 'you' the Real Self. If it's the persona ego, there will be trouble no matter what that ego does with love but if it's the Real Self, all will be well because the Real self IS LOVE!


That all seems well and good but only if this undefined 'you' is the Source or Real self otherwise none of it makes any sense nor will it ever work. The personal ego is INCAPABLE of having or expressing genuine, healthy love in any form whatsoever.

I say that ego identity is suffering and selfless identity is LOVE.


If the 'energy' behind it is of the Divine Source, love will be there and can work its loving miracles but if this is egoic energy, SUFFERING will be there.
It always comes down to who/what is in the drama.

I am the mirror in which you will see a reflection of yourself in my words, this is quite obvious in your whole post as you use the word 'ego' for the first time in this thread with the context that it is an identity of some kind.

[boshy b. good]

we come thorough, let me explain. firstly due loving is ourself
and we grow up to loving what we like to love, and we grow up
now to justice'd, calculator breaker lots of loving our risers and
hold-on'ers, and we begun to lovingly on them huddling side
on side with us and does not forget as a chosen of god's roofed
as we :grommit:

[Heart]

For many years I looked for grace
Although it was in this very same place

I didn't think to look within
I couldn't see for all my sins


Blinded by this doubtful mind
I sought refuge in the big outside

I have my spade so deeper I went
into this world of illusion...

Now you may wonder where did I go,
what did I do, and what do I know


All I can tell you is I'm still here...
making up my own karma.


One day I did sigh, I sit down and cry
please Lord tell me no lies.

I want to know the meaning of life
but which way do I turn?


I was told to look deep inside
which the mind denied it has really tried.

But now I know there's more to life
than digging my own grave...

[Heart]

A prayer to the hearts wisdom...

In all my life I have been restricted by my own doing, my own needs and desires, the illusion that I have pulled over mine own eyes to conceal the truth that lies within knowing that these are just reflections of a former self that has no foundation.
Yet the truth certainly burns within my heart yearning to be set free so as to fulfill it own task. I can ask a hundred questions and have a hundred answers but what I seek is beyond both, instead I ask for guidance from all who have the power to do so...
I am willing to allow this body mind and soul to be the instruments of infinity
I ask this in the name of love, true light, purity and virtue for I will not allow anything else to reside within

[naturesflow]

I am the mirror in which you will see a reflection of yourself in my words, this is quite obvious in your whole post as you use the word 'ego' for the first time in this thread with the context that it is an identity of some kind.


So what do you reflect upon in seeing all this for you?


:wink:

[naturesflow]

IMcurrentO, all such discussions revolve around who/what we are or believe we are.

yes we are experiencing and expressing the story we create and tell as being so.

Who/what is the you in that statement? Is this 'you' a personal egoic self or is this 'you' the Real Self. If it's the persona ego, there will be trouble no matter what that ego does with love but if it's the Real Self, all will be well because the Real self IS LOVE!


yes that makes sense.


That all seems well and good but only if this undefined 'you' is the Source or Real self otherwise none of it makes any sense nor will it ever work. The personal ego is INCAPABLE of having or expressing genuine, healthy love in any form whatsoever.


I would agree with this.

I say that ego identity is suffering and selfless identity is LOVE.

yes that rings true in me too. the self is less involved in the opening to love more authentically, simply because love moves itself and the space as it will most naturally, without effort, force or me saying what it needs to be.


If the 'energy' behind it is of the Divine Source, love will be there and can work its loving miracles but if this is egoic energy, SUFFERING will be there.
It always comes down to who/what is in the drama.


yes the miraculous does evolve of the shared space, which probably ties into my view of effortless movements, not "you" doing and making things be, but the allowing of what is there to do what it wants of the shared space in loving presence. There would be no pull towards suffering, but a natural movement leading to its own loving presence. I think the external reflections would naturally reflect it if so.

[Heart]

So what do you reflect upon in seeing all this for you?


:wink:

I see no reflection of ego in my words.... grin

[naturesflow]

I see no reflection of ego in my words.... grin

I am the mirror in which you will see a reflection of yourself in my words, this is quite obvious in your whole post as you use the word 'ego' for the first time in this thread with the context that it is an identity of some kind.

In reflection my mirror is clear.

[Heart]

In reflection my mirror is clear.

the word ego is not a part of this thread. it is about the art of true love, so if I am to respond to who I am and what I reflect is written in words in my first post,

otherwise the mirror simply reflects and the mirror itself becomes an identity

[Aube Borealis]

to really truly know the meaning of love is to.... accept it in your heart, willingly and then to let it go again.
You are then expressing love and allowing that expression to grow and evolve without being attached to its results
it is the expectation of getting something out of it that makes it hurt because you can never truly own love, but you can express it and give it out to others
true love in all its wisdom may find you worthy of its attention if you so choose to let it so in a state of humility, courage and surrender

Remember this formula…

suffering is love un-recognised, recognized love is suffering

both extremities need each other in mirror form as a reflection of the energy behind it, when it is seen this way we are letting it go


You will know if it is true love, real love or you are in love is when there is just no reason at all for loving.

You will never mind any sacrifices or pain, sometimes you forget who you are, just felt you are floating with heavenly feelings that shivers to the bone and that feelings lingers all the time.

If there are so many reasons for loving, I think it's just infatuation, what if all the reasons faded or gone, will you still love the person then?

[naturesflow]

the word ego is not a part of this thread. it is about the art of true love, so if I am to respond to who I am and what I reflect is written in words in my first post,

otherwise the mirror simply reflects and the mirror itself becomes an identity


If ego is understood of itself in the nature of what was offered, then naturally it would see it's place in the whole awareness more complete of itself as the art of truth and love and reflect, so again your choosing to look only where you want to see in the whole art of love.

What you offered to the other reflects you as the one seeing, experiencing in all that and everything that you perceive as the art of true love just by that modelling you are making the thread be as you see it needs to be with no ego in the thread. Whether one sees ego in the thread or no ego in it is already separating the art of love in this view wouldn't it?.. Is love inclusive in the deeper reflection of itself to see what resides within it, as all that itself? Doesn't love generate the feeling in and of itself to know that all in the art of love has a place in the whole?


Is their a limitation when we contain ourselves within a defined awareness of self in the art of true love in your response? To me the yin/yang moves anywhere along the spectrum of love as a whole reflection aware. There is no me seeing making be, there is no you making be, there is only love moving through the whole aware..
inclusive both extremities need each other in mirror form as a reflection of the energy behind it, when it is seen this way we are letting it go-heart

[Heart]

If ego is understood of itself in the nature of what was offered, then naturally it would see it's place in the whole awareness more complete of itself as the art of truth and love.

It really depends on how you and all who read this understand the 'real' nature of ego and its place within our entirety

if an egotic perception of my words are present, it is not in my words but the perception of the person reading them, I am a mirror in which others see there own reflection of there perceiving, some perceived beauty others ego, I am neither right nor wrong in what I wrote in the first post, just inner reflections of those who read them change. I merely reflect what they perceive in there own heart and mind

What you offered to the other reflects you as the one seeing, experiencing in all that and everything that you perceive as the art of true love just by that modelling you are making the thread be as you see it needs to be. Is love inclusive in the deeper reflection of itself to see what resides within it, as all that itself? Doesn't love generate the feeling in and of itself to know that all in the art of love has a place in the whole?

What you call modelling is interpreted to I as experience, are you saying all experience in every single person in this world is a fabrication? I and every one writes and it is interpreted? and everyone is judged to a degree it is seen as a deliberate way to make a point?

am I wrong in this interpretation or are you implying something else here?

Its interesting though to see how others would not believe the authenticity of my words, but that's fine, anything that is authentic is often mistaken for egotic words and the words to describe love

Who are you?

To whom do I reflect an answer too? a mirror? a reflection? All that is there for the mind and ego to grasp is smoke and mirrors. love becomes a sugar coated memory we all once held dear

[Heart]

You will know if it is true love, real love or you are in love is when there is just no reason at all for loving.

You will never mind any sacrifices or pain, sometimes you forget who you are, just felt you are floating with heavenly feelings that shivers to the bone and that feelings lingers all the time.

If there are so many reasons for loving, I think it's just infatuation, what if all the reasons faded or gone, will you still love the person then?


In the way I experience true love...

it is beyond my words to describe it, it causes I to write about it despite my feeble attempts to describe it, it is a yearning deep within my heart that is forever pushing I to remain humbled by its presence within, it is a voice from which no sound is present and understanding from which no mind can comprehend, yet here I am knowing its presence its all pervading and everlasting presence, It speaks volumes of the unity we call the one and the time it has taken for us to come full circle.

[7luminaries]

You will know if it is true love, real love or you are in love is when there is just no reason at all for loving.

You will never mind any sacrifices or pain, sometimes you forget who you are, just felt you are floating with heavenly feelings that shivers to the bone and that feelings lingers all the time.

If there are so many reasons for loving, I think it's just infatuation, what if all the reasons faded or gone, will you still love the person then?

Yes, we do :hug:

IMO an authentic love is one that desires the best for the other(s), absolutely nothing to do with the self or any expectations or demands on the other. Same as we want the best for all our beloved fam and friends...not because of what they will do for us, but simply for themselves. We desire and actively seek and support their highest good simply for who they are and for no other reason.

Peace & blessings :hug3:
7L

[naturesflow]

Yes, we do :hug:

IMO an authentic love is one that desires the best for the other(s), absolutely nothing to do with the self or any expectations or demands on the other. Same as we want the best for all our beloved fam and friends...not because of what they will do for us, but simply for themselves. We desire and actively seek and support their highest good simply for who they are and for no other reason.

Peace & blessings :hug3:
7L


Yes in the intention we can become an inclusiveness of loving presence.




(When I moved deeper into my own "receiving more open" to this awareness and feeling in myself, I realized that I move through the world as I am more naturally, so most often now I don't need to seek what I know is seeking me in my life creations. It just becomes what it needs of itself. I just live and move myself open to what is there. If you know yourself as the art of true love, if you realize the difference in yourself and also realize love is a deepening process ongoing, then it becomes effortless. The doing and being become one movement effortlessly..:) )

[Heart]

The wisdom of the One within…

‘The universe has an opinion… it speaks to you if you listen to it. Its unwritten words are unspoken yet they can be clearly heard through a state of love and compassion’

[naturesflow]

The wisdom of the One within…

‘The universe has an opinion… it speaks to you if you listen to it. Its unwritten words are unspoken yet they can be clearly heard through a state of love and compassion’


More wisdom of the one within..
It is both written and unwritten..it is both opinion and no opinion....it both speaks and listens....It is both states and no state...it is both love and compassion, unloving and not compassionate...It is all that and more.


There is no separation of the one, there is no division, there is nothing, there is everything, there is less, there is more. There are many expressions of the one. Now if only we could express them all at once as the one...hehehe I suppose that is why just being yourself is a great motto of the one ... :)

[Heart]

Thank you Naturesflow

your words utter profound meaning. they remind I of something I wrote yet Im sure they are not mine, it is something to yet consider from where they come from... my heart, an entity, an alien? they feel channeled but from what is still a mystery to I....

A miracle is occurring every moment. You, the source, are unfolding your infinite potential into your own time/space as perception itself; as thought, form, otherness, feeling, continuity, experience. You stand eternally in your own infinite potential, as both everything and no-thing, As the source of all that is expressed…….
The source of thought is not thinking.
The source of feeling is not, itself, feeling.
The source of time and space is not moving in time and space.
The observer is a silent witness, unmoved and unmovable.
nothing is unknown, and yet there is nothing to know.
As the source of movement, you are utterly still.
As the source of the illusion of separateness, you are utterly Whole and complete.
Wholeness can acquire nothing.
That which is all and nothing has nowhere to move.
That which is already infinite, cannot become.
That which is present in this moment is locked in place by it's own infinity and eternity.
It can become neither more nor less,
Neither confused nor certain,
Neither here nor there,
Neither now nor then.
It simply and eternally IS.

[boshy b. good]

does it feel good to love. so that's enough. so we big too. so we can handle too. we go on tople it, more bluff accepting :redface:
____________________________________

[naturesflow]

Thank you Naturesflow

your words utter profound meaning. they remind I of something I wrote yet Im sure they are not mine, it is something to yet consider from where they come from... my heart, an entity, an alien? they feel channeled but from what is still a mystery to I....

A miracle is occurring every moment. You, the source, are unfolding your infinite potential into your own time/space as perception itself; as thought, form, otherness, feeling, continuity, experience. You stand eternally in your own infinite potential, as both everything and no-thing, As the source of all that is expressed…….
The source of thought is not thinking.
The source of feeling is not, itself, feeling.
The source of time and space is not moving in time and space.
The observer is a silent witness, unmoved and unmovable.
nothing is unknown, and yet there is nothing to know.
As the source of movement, you are utterly still.
As the source of the illusion of separateness, you are utterly Whole and complete.
Wholeness can acquire nothing.
That which is all and nothing has nowhere to move.
That which is already infinite, cannot become.
That which is present in this moment is locked in place by it's own infinity and eternity.
It can become neither more nor less,
Neither confused nor certain,
Neither here nor there,
Neither now nor then.
It simply and eternally IS.

Thankyou. I like your reflections too.
I am curious heart. Only because lately people speak to me in this regard. The thing about people not knowing where the flow of sharing comes through at times. You bring this up again to show me another speaking in this way, where you say you don't know where it comes from in you when this flowed from you..

I remember when being guided by spirit, I moved deeper into myself, continued to integrate my learning and revealing that they moved me to notice and become more aware of. Over time as guides left my space, I had to learn to be ok being myself without all that in place. Take the mystery of their presence and the unknown of myself into life and deepen and realize that the ONE and oneness speaks through us as a whole host of relating and deepening of awareness. When I access parts of my own flow and expression, it doesn't require me now to know where or what it comes from. I know that through the integration of all those spirit's who came and showed me the way, of all those humans who supported me and showed me myself, over time I realized that it is me. I am what ever and what I show of myself. The range of awareness I can access now in myself to express and become a more whole relatable being, allows me to be anything, express many ways, understand many aspects of the One in myself. SO now I realize all that was, all that is, all that will be is in me in as all those that once showed me myself, showed me the way, opened the way and deepened my experience of life as a creative being to be the way the "one" is.. So most often I simply rest in the awareness of myself, I rarely wonder where it flows from, more inspired to let it flow as it will aware.. Let it speak through the many channels I am in me now formed and forming through my awareness ongoing..

In some ways guides no longer are necessary to my creative awareness in the creations of myself.. I just know I am loved and supported, I know I am one with life to access the expression I am through all that has been shown, all that has been given to me and all that I have deepened in myself to become.

And for me that really is a humble treat, I see the interconnectedness of your openings at that time to my understandings in me now. Sometimes things flow before we integrate, sometimes they flow where we believe we are not the one speaking and sharing, expressing and relating. But often this shows us our more complete and whole awareness flowing in even before it has been understood as self in the oneness as the "one".. The order not necessary to what is already complete...:)

[Heart]

Thankyou. I like your reflections too.
I am curious heart. Only because lately people speak to me in this regard. The thing about people not knowing where the flow of sharing comes through at times. You bring this up again to show me another speaking in this way, where you say you don't know where it comes from in you when this flowed from you..

I remember when being guided by spirit, I moved deeper into myself, continued to integrate my learning and revealing that they moved me to notice and become more aware of. Over time as guides left my space, I had to learn to be ok being myself without all that in place. Take the mystery of their presence and the unknown of myself into life and deepen and realize that the ONE and oneness speaks through us as a whole host of relating and deepening of awareness. When I access parts of my own flow and expression, it doesn't require me now to know where or what it comes from. I know that through the integration of all those spirit's who came and showed me the way, of all those humans who supported me and showed me myself, over time I realized that it is me. I am what ever and what I show of myself. The range of awareness I can access now in myself to express and become a more whole relatable being, allows me to be anything, express many ways, understand many aspects of the One in myself. SO now I realize all that was, all that is, all that will be is in me in as all those that once showed me myself, showed me the way, opened the way and deepened my experience of life as a creative being to be the way the "one" is.. So most often I simply rest in the awareness of myself, I rarely wonder where it flows from, more inspired to let it flow as it will aware.. Let it speak through the many channels I am in me now formed and forming through my awareness ongoing..

In some ways guides no longer are necessary to my creative awareness in the creations of myself.. I just know I am loved and supported, I know I am one with life to access the expression I am through all that has been shown, all that has been given to me and all that I have deepened in myself to become.

And for me that really is a humble treat, I see the interconnectedness of your openings at that time to my understandings in me now. Sometimes things flow before we integrate, sometimes they flow where we believe we are not the one speaking and sharing, expressing and relating. But often this shows us our more complete and whole awareness flowing in even before it has been understood as self in the oneness as the "one".. The order not necessary to what is already complete...:)

Your words inspired I to write the following for this I thank you. again it does not seem to matter from whom or how these words came to I it seems more relevant that I share them so that they may inspire, and if they do then it is all that is required of from my heart and spirit to do so,

Our mind and body seem to become the instruments for the All-that-is to play tunes upon, in which we gladly accept as tones of loving awareness

We are like icebergs, we all see each others tips blinded by our whiteness (purity) we fail to see we are in an endless ocean of unfathomable and mysterious depth and size and are swept of our feet in the delights of our existence, we somehow instinctively know there is more to us and that is true, because most of our entirety is hidden beneath the surface life, there is an unending clarity and serene stillness between each of us all on the surface of the ocean we call life and it ebbs and flows in such ways that we feel it move within us, like someone from afar calling us yet in life’s foibles we struggle to hear the message. As we reflect upon this surface it is like a mirror seeing our own divinity upside down, and we often confuse it with what is real or not and if you look close enough we will from time to time glimpse something that we recognise even though it is forgotten from time immemorial it speaks volumes of love long lost now remembered, as we ponder the marvels of our immortal nature we slowly dissolve into the source of the One, from here on our journey has just begun

[boshy b. good]

where are we at [ what's our defending. we aught pick our spot
that does great job ]. thats what count at loving. at loving jolly big

i thought that be true

[Dargor]

Love does more harm than it does good.

[Clover]

to really truly know the meaning of love is to.... accept it in your heart, willingly and then to let it go again.
You are then expressing love and allowing that expression to grow and evolve without being attached to its results
it is the expectation of getting something out of it that makes it hurt because you can never truly own love, but you can express it and give it out to others
true love in all its wisdom may find you worthy of its attention if you so choose to let it so in a state of humility, courage and surrender

Remember this formula…

suffering is love un-recognised, recognized love is suffering

both extremities need each other in mirror form as a reflection of the energy behind it, when it is seen this way we are letting it go

Lovely message/contemplation, heart.


Illusion never brings peace, never brings happiness. Once we get past our own illusions, we open up to something so much larger/ imaginable.

Love is never lost, it is always there

:hug2:

[Jyotir]

Love does more harm than it does good.



Hi SlayerofLight,

True for animal love; possible for human love; impossible for divine love.

Animal love is objectively unilateral (selfish) and takes or demands.

Human love is bilateral, reciprocal - it's conditional bargaining; partially self-centered.

Divine love is selfless, unconditional, and universal; the dynamic expression of truth-consciousness.

~ J

[Baile]

Pessimism does more harm than love.

[Baile]

Cynicism is the gloomy lovechild of pessimism and negativity.

[Heart]

Love does more harm than it does good.

LMSO......

Nearly every song speaks of such harm, so here I dedicate this song to you...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6pHNkOQCIzk

but I prefer to send you loving compassion if that is ok with you. :smile:

[Dargor]

LMSO......

Nearly every song speaks of such harm, so here I dedicate this song to you...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6pHNkOQCIzk

but I prefer to send you loving compassion if that is ok with you. :smile:

Thanks, but if you really wish to send me loving compassion then next time when you dedicate a song to me it'd better be Amon Amarth.

[Heart]

Lovely message/contemplation, heart.


Illusion never brings peace, never brings happiness. Once we get past our own illusions, we open up to something so much larger/ imaginable.

Love is never lost, it is always there

:hug2:

Thank you, your words I humbly reflect and contemplate upon

[Heart]

Thanks, but if you really wish to send me loving compassion then next time when you dedicate a song to me it'd better be Amon Amarth.

As you already know Amon Amarth dedicating it to you would be pointless so here I share... not dedicate, this song to you

its called 'Objection Overruled'

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XYG-vZhvEf0

just so its known... your neither wrong or right in your post about love

[Dargor]

As you already know Amon Amarth dedicating it to you would be pointless so here I share... not dedicate, this song to you

its called 'Objection Overruled'

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XYG-vZhvEf0

just so its known... your neither wrong or right in your post about love

Holy that's more like it. I already know them as well but you made the right choice nonetheless.

Getting back on topic, personally to me this is the best ''love'' song ever https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Yom8nNqmxvQ

[Heart]

Holy that's more like it. I already know them as well but you made the right choice nonetheless.

Getting back on topic, personally to me this is the best ''love'' song ever https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Yom8nNqmxvQ

lol very cool

Im a Hyper Dark drum 'N' base man myself. I can meditate on this stuff.... for hours

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rUuEJL0c4_w

reminds I of the days when I fought internal demons dragons and creapy entities.... shadow play I call them or other may prefer darkness of the soul, just the tricks of the mind and egos attempts to put the fear of God in me.