A vow of (boddhisatva) power - my first spiritual experience

[shivatar]

This is my first spiritual experience and it is similar to the boddhisatva vow.

"For a world I hate, I give my life and gifts."

and the word hate is important for many reasons. One is to show that it's not just love that matters, hate can be a powerful tool for self transformation but only when used for the good of all, not against our self or others. If what you have is hate you don't have to hate yourself for feeling hate, you can transform it into something beautiful and see yourself as the transformer of experiences and emotions, not the subject of them.

original wording of inner voice. "I hate this place [earth], it gives me everything I don't want and nothing that I do. Suicide is out of the question, but not sacrifice. With a sacrifice I can make my family proud, not cut their time with me short, and make those buggers I hate so much happy. Not that I care, but it's the only way for me to honorably leave earth, so whatever they can have what they want. Everybody wins, except me, and that's what I want. I'll work myself to death so I die of hard work at a young age, using what I have in abundance [anger] to fuel me. I'll have what I want [death/rest/peace] and others will have what they need, my gifts, we all win"

after that I had a 40 day spiritual journey. I felt like I spoke to God and it spoke back but only twice, from then on I was talking to my inner self like a telephone which would relay messages.


I think a vow of this kind has a few basic parts and following this formula a person can create goals, vows, purpose, for their life and self-image.

I'll give _____ (something I treasure. a thing, my time, my self)

for _______ (one is good, all is better)

and I want ______ (intention)

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The strength of the vow can be gauged, if we want to give our life for one other person and we want to see them longer, we won't experience the same profound changes that a mystic might because our vow is rooted in self and not selflessness.

It would seem like the intention is the most important thing, if we want to give our life for anothers and we don't want anything in return but the satisfaction of knowing we did all we could. We could quite possibly experience an enlightenment like /self-transcendental experience.

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What made my vow qualify for a boddhisatva vow (in my opinion) -
1. I'll give all of me
2. for all of their benefit
3. and I want nothing in return ( pure intention. I didn't want to realize I was a boddhisatva, I didn't want warm feelings, etc.)

--

In my opinion lesser vows are also possible to promote self/inner growth, but they do not pack the same "transformation /transcendental big bang". it's the "death of self" aspect combined with the purity of intent that caused me to radically evaluate my concept of self. I very quickly learned it's about the intention and not the action, if you intend to carry it out then the body will change to match the intention. No deep intention or commitment means the first time the brain gives some negative feedback we are thrown from the spiritual path, the determination must be as solid as life or death or there is no self-transcendence.

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and I think there is a threshold for the transformation experience.

Once the self-transcendence threshold has been reached, a "more powerful" vow is possible but doesn't give any higher form of spiritual transcendence but rather has a different effect for after the experience ends.

For me, because my vow was rooted in selflessness, after my experience ended I had not much desire for myself but an abundant desire to help others.

For a mother who vowed for the life of her children, perhaps her experience afterwards would be a life more centered around strong family bonds and an increased appreciation for the time we have together (the present).

--

A good way to experience a pure intention is to not craft a vow, follow spontaneous urges and if a vow comes up then go with what comes naturally.

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The knowledge of how the vows work is encouragement to research it further, I'm by no means an expert in the subject just an amateur who has noticed something interesting.

It's also meant to make us more aware that the words in our mind are not just trivial things, some of them in the proper order can unlock experiences beyond your wildest dreams.

[Shivani Devi]

Such a very nice and insightful post. Most of my greatest experiences involve surrender - to realise there's something 'bigger' out there and that I am just holding on to my ego - to the belief that I am independent from the will of God.

I can exist at the state where I am Shiva and not-Shiva simultaneously. It's like when two people who are in love join together - there is lover, there is beloved and then, there is the love that joins them. There is no separation in this state, even though the separation exists for that love to exist.

To start off my prayers to God, I always get into the mood by saying "I am nothing without you" and "you make me, you complete me' and "you've been with me all my life" and "there's nothing else...nothing but you" and I totally go about dissolving my self into the love I feel for God.

It's like I can start the tears flowing, but once that starts happening, God takes over and drags them all out of me, totally emptying my soul.

So I go.."I give my heart, my soul and everything I am...for just one second with You and I want to be with You forever".

[firstandlast]

I think it is important to recognize that sometimes the most potent vow is the most sincere one, which can only be truly judged in the moment it is important--

For me, my vow was taken at a very specific point; and I knew what I was doing; but really didn't understand the consequences of me doing so--

Basically, my friend was in a tough spot; I had just gotten into a certain aspect of magick, now usually I don't actually practice any specific thing but this was based on will and meditation (or gnosis)-- So I simply went into gnosis in order to will my friends benefit because he did not deserve what he was dealing with on surface levels at least; and when I did this, I very much understood heaven or nirvana, like it was the moment I could have completely experienced such a thing, and it called to me quite strongly--

It was difficult, because normally, I was required to let go of all thoughts in order to bring my own will into fruition; but if I let go of my aim in conscious thought, I would have left this world into bliss.. So I struggled against heaven, because it was all well and cool, but I wanted to help my friend and see it through to the end; so I denied heaven to help a friend-- And to me, this is the only real time the vow matters, everything else would be preparation in different levels of both unselfish and selfish matters (as your most selfish wishes are the same as your most selfless when they meet again behind themselves)--

So I struggled with heaven which kept offering itself to me, but I was like no no no, I am doing this for a friend and that is what is important to me; I must see this through-- Well that experience never happened again, but I did manage to see that my friend was okay; but whether or not I did anything is matter of coincidence, because he felt like he managed it on his own; and all I did was lend all of myself possible to the focus of him doing so-- So whether or not I managed to pull off anything doesn't even really matter, but that I denied absolute warming golden bliss upon my being just to make sure he got through it, it didn't even matter to me if I was the one who was seen to do it or not; even if it appeared to be that I cared so (because I wanted to figure out what happened of course! not cuz I needed credit)--

But you see, I wouldn't of done that for just anyone; I would of only done that for someone in need and within my maybe possible power to help, along with my desire to help that way-- It was a perfect balance of selfishness and selflessness; and these middle ways are key to the gates of all paths; but that there are many different gates up the spinal cord-- So the right path through extremes are also the middle way--


Just to share my direct experience with such a concept and what I had learned--

Actually the main lesson I learned on the doorstep of heaven was one of surrender; But that I did not surrender myself to heaven--

[shivatar]

Why did you think that if you surrendered to the bliss that you would dissolve or "left this world"?

"I would have left this world into bliss.. "


I've read among some Indian beliefs... I forgot which, maybe it was hinduism or a philosopher talking about hinduism, but they said that once a person accesses a certain state of mental development they simply evaporate or "leave this world".

But the Buddha and many others live in bliss and don't leave this earth. Maybe you can still experience bliss... and not evaporate lol. Have you ever tried it?

[shivatar]

Such a very nice and insightful post. Most of my greatest experiences involve surrender - to realise there's something 'bigger' out there and that I am just holding on to my ego - to the belief that I am independent from the will of God.

I can exist at the state where I am Shiva and not-Shiva simultaneously. It's like when two people who are in love join together - there is lover, there is beloved and then, there is the love that joins them. There is no separation in this state, even though the separation exists for that love to exist.

To start off my prayers to God, I always get into the mood by saying "I am nothing without you" and "you make me, you complete me' and "you've been with me all my life" and "there's nothing else...nothing but you" and I totally go about dissolving my self into the love I feel for God.

It's like I can start the tears flowing, but once that starts happening, God takes over and drags them all out of me, totally emptying my soul.

So I go.."I give my heart, my soul and everything I am...for just one second with You and I want to be with You forever".

that's profound. I always say judge something by it's fruits, if the practice is bearing fruit for you then it seems to be working.

[firstandlast]

Why did you think that if you surrendered to the bliss that you would dissolve or "left this world"?

"I would have left this world into bliss.. "


I've read among some Indian beliefs... I forgot which, maybe it was hinduism or a philosopher talking about hinduism, but they said that once a person accesses a certain state of mental development they simply evaporate or "leave this world".

But the Buddha and many others live in bliss and don't leave this earth. Maybe you can still experience bliss... and not evaporate lol. Have you ever tried it?

That is about the best I can word the difference--

The key is in you do not actually ever go anywhere-- lol

[shivatar]

So you did not experience lasting bliss because of fear, not because of knowledge. You didn't experience a death by bliss but you feared it?

you had one second of bliss then you ran from it, and listened to your thoughts when they convinced you that bliss is bad?

People spend lifetimes trying to get back to such a state, perhaps it's worth a second thought.

[firstandlast]

So you did not experience lasting bliss because of fear, not because of knowledge. You didn't experience a death by bliss but you feared it?

you had one second of bliss then you ran from it, and listened to your thoughts when they convinced you that bliss is bad?

People spend lifetimes trying to get back to such a state, perhaps it's worth a second thought.


I don't know who you are talking to, cuz like none of that applies to me-- *looks over at another* must be you he started talking to--

[shivatar]

Something must be lost in translation

[Shivani Devi]

That 'death thing' happens to me quite often and it's something that even though I've gone through it at least 100 times, it's still really hard to 'get used to it' because the whole experience is terrifying, even though you're not really afraid, it's still hella scary (if that makes sense).

I'll be in deep meditation or in bliss, when suddenly my breath will stop, my heart slows right down to nothing and all my organs go into 'hibernation'. I'll experience intense vertigo, a 'popping' in my skull and numbness all over my body - I've been medically checked out and everything is 'normal' but 'low normal'.

Anyway, I'll feel my body totally losing it and sometimes accidents will happen because I can't stand up to make it to the lavatory..

All the while, I am praying fervently to Shiva - "not now...don't take me now...I'm not ready to die"

And Shiva says "nobody ever is" followed by "how much do you trust me?"

I'm struggling for breath, feeling choked by the universe and if only I could pass out, I'd feel better - but no, I am to be in full, waking consciousness for it...

Feeling like I am being dragged headfirst into a bottomless abyss...feeling my waking consciousness is totally dissolving into my Third-Eye Chakra and feeling my body so stiff and heavy that it won't respond to my mental commands anymore...

It's like I am being buried alive and suffocating in an infinity of nothing.

In the end, I start chanting the Maha Mrityunjaya Mantra as it's the only thing I can do, and I keep Lord Shiva in my mind and heart.

Eventually, I go back into bliss, falling asleep in it...it feels like being cradled in the arms of the universe...it feels like a blanket or 'energy bubble' is wrapped around me and protecting me - then my breath comes back and it feels like I am sinking into a hot tub full of Shiva love and I have come back again.

[firstandlast]

Something must be lost in translation


I believe so, it seems to happen in about every post with every person, even though I think I am breaking it down in the most relevant way-- It's really quite frustrating, but some people handle it better than others, and sometimes I don't handle it well, usually because of dealing with the others, which causes someone else to get the short end of the stick in my expression--

At this point I bow out with love; I just cannot seem to communicate myself, and I cannot tell if it is because I suck in expression, if others suck at listening, or the experience between us is too wide of gap to just make leaps--

That is why I end up expressing myself in the most complicated way "Baby steps", some people hate this; they don't want to walk through all the alley ways, but when I say something up front; I am forced to take them down those ways anyways when they question everything from angles I have already been through--

Most of the time it is worth the effort, because even if someone asks the same things I have, sometimes they will accidently reveal other passages to me I had missed, that they weren't even looking towards-- Its as if I have to experience the same line of questioning both from within and from without just to get a complete picture--

Anyways, thank you for your time and effort to listen to me, even when I was in my abrasive tomfoolery-- but I must recalculate my efforts--

[FallingLeaves]

thanks for describing this for me. I always wondered what it was like... now I realize that is the direction I've been walking in :smile:

[shivatar]

I believe so, it seems to happen in about every post with every person, even though I think I am breaking it down in the most relevant way-- It's really quite frustrating, but some people handle it better than others, and sometimes I don't handle it well, usually because of dealing with the others, which causes someone else to get the short end of the stick in my expression--

At this point I bow out with love; I just cannot seem to communicate myself, and I cannot tell if it is because I suck in expression, if others suck at listening, or the experience between us is too wide of gap to just make leaps--

That is why I end up expressing myself in the most complicated way "Baby steps", some people hate this; they don't want to walk through all the alley ways, but when I say something up front; I am forced to take them down those ways anyways when they question everything from angles I have already been through--

Most of the time it is worth the effort, because even if someone asks the same things I have, sometimes they will accidently reveal other passages to me I had missed, that they weren't even looking towards-- Its as if I have to experience the same line of questioning both from within and from without just to get a complete picture--

Anyways, thank you for your time and effort to listen to me, even when I was in my abrasive tomfoolery-- but I must recalculate my efforts--


After having some time to think about it I realize that the mis-communication wasn't due to you, it was due to my envy at your spiritual experience. I have a tendency to compare my spiritual experience to others and when I saw your experience was true and pure I became envious of it.

I was hesitant to accept your experience because it seemed better than mine, instead of acceptance I gave you denial and skepticism. I'm sorry.

Your communication skills are very strong in english for someone who speaks other languages, I've heard english is a difficult language but it's been my native language since birth. If I had known from the beginning perhaps I would have been a little less negative... but perhaps not much, I have a tendency to become very negative sometimes. very very negative lol.