Self-Honesty

[Verunia]

I take a lot of pride in being honest with myself as I believe it paves the way to honest relationships and easier trust- having nothing to hide from anyone, including myself. Though the truth is tough to bear more often than not, I don't really understand why.

So I guess what I'm trying to get at is.. Why is it so difficult to be completely honest with ourselves?

[andrew g]

I take a lot of pride in being honest with myself as I believe it paves the way to honest relationships and easier trust- having nothing to hide from anyone, including myself. Though the truth is tough to bear more often than not, I don't really understand why.

So I guess what I'm trying to get at is.. Why is it so difficult to be completely honest with ourselves?

Firstly I think we are scared of what we might discover about ourselves if we are honest with ourselves. For example, we might discover that we are bad, or we might discover that we are good, or perhaps even more frightening - we might discover we are both and neither.

Secondly, I think we are afraid of how these discoveries would affect our lives practically, because once we have consciously looked at a secret truth it then becomes much harder to ignore! For example, I wonder how many husbands and wives in the world are scared of facing up to their unhappiness in their marriage because then they might have to take frightening action that is outside of their comfort zone.

The funny thing is in a moment of total honesty, there is no fear at all, no need for a comfort zone. But these moments are hard to maintain with consistency. I think 'getting honest' for most people is a process because it often involves making quite big life changes that would be just too big to make all in one go.

I think, in the end, the day we are totally at peace and at ease with the unknown, the day that we are totally open to change, is also the day that we are able to live totally honest lives.

[andrew g]

Im still reflecting on this.....

I think that its also to do with 'values'. I dont think there are many humans who consistently value self-honesty. Getting self-honest can sometimes be very uncomfortable and can bring up a lot of emotion. We might have to face fears of being alone, of dying, or being poor, of being in pain. And we tend to value security and comfort above honesty. And thats fine, Im not judging that, self-honesty is an ongoing process for me too.

I see life as a process in which we are constantly re-evaluating and re-assessing what is important to us. I actually think that in the end, we will all get to a point where we value honesty above all else, because the reason we are dishonest boils down to a simple misunderstanding that things, relationships and people can make us happy and make us feel secure. At most, things, relationships and people can only give us a fleeting and unstable sense of happiness and security. When we resolve this misunderstanding, there will be no more fear of being honest. Or perhaps as we heal our fear of being honest we resolve the misunderstanding, Im not sure which way round it is.

[Verunia]

Hi andrew, thanks for replying. You bring up a lot of good points.

Firstly I think we are scared of what we might discover about ourselves if we are honest with ourselves.

This is true. Speaking from experience this can be pretty bitter if we think of ourselves one way and soon come to the realization that it's not 100% true in our favor. Also marriage is definitely a prime example of this unfortunately. It makes me wonder why people walk into those commitments without being honest to their partner- it's something I struggle to understand! What material desire could be so important at the expense of your own and someone elses happiness?

I agree self honesty is definitely uncomfortable but it's almost like in todays world it's accepted to just shove things aside and deal with them way later. You know so they don't get in the way of school, work, relationships, etc.. Doesn't sound very healthy to me.

Personally, I think if anyone wants to be happy then honesty is a key part of that, whether in solitude or in a relationship. I don't know. I just can't really imagine genuine happiness without a good deal of honesty here and there.

At most, things, relationships and people can only give us a fleeting and unstable sense of happiness and security. When we resolve this misunderstanding, there will be no more fear of being honest. Or perhaps as we heal our fear of being honest we resolve the misunderstanding, Im not sure which way round it is.

I bet it's a little bit of both! By not holding on to people and relationships too much, but also realizing that we can't run from ourselves forever.

[Jyotir]

Hi Verunia,

This may sound like 'mincing words', but I prefer the term "self-examination", vs "self-honesty".
It has more practical utility for me in my daily life. Reason being that self-honesty seems to have moral implications due to the term 'honesty', and as such can present a distorting influence as applied to the process of self-examination, which is considered an essential part of many (any?) spiritual traditions/paths.

The word honesty has all sorts of social and moral attacthments that can be problematic in this instance. I view morality as inherently relative by nature, including depending on one's culture, and therefore many moral values are determined outside of and applied to individuals. All of this has the potential to subvert a genuine process of self-examination simply by creating a self-comparison to conformity with any normative values. Iow's, it is external to self and as such may have an effect on altering behavior, but for what purpose? Spiritual progress seems to require the self-examination process to be completely internal and also of internal necessity.

Of course, all of the forgoing is moot if one views self-honesty as being equivalent with self-examination which is certainly valid. Perhaps I am being a stickler, but imo and for me this is a subtle distinction that is worth making.

As far as truth being hard to bear, much of this is due to our inherent ignorance and the uncovering process. It means something new is inevitably going to appear which is beyond the previous capacity to understand it, and so will be unfamiliar and uncomfortable: "the truth hurts", growing "pains" etc.
This is why some of us deliberately (even if unconsciously) want to put our heads in the sand (on the banks of denial), because we know that "bad news" (eg truth) is always around the corner, and you said as much yourself:
we can't run from ourselves forever.

I am convinced that people could be more successfully self-examined (instead of avoiding) if they only embraced that feeling of newness - not as uncomfortable even painful unfamiliarity, but as a welcoming of the unknown which is gradually becoming increasingly known within ourselves.

Perhaps that is even a qualifier of spiritual practice (vs theory) - that someone has the sincerity to self-examine, AND subsequently alter their activity (even internally) based on the results of that self-examining process.




~ J

[Verunia]

Of course, all of the forgoing is moot if one views self-honesty as being equivalent with self-examination which is certainly valid. Perhaps I am being a stickler, but imo and for me this is a subtle distinction that is worth making.

No no you're not being a stickler :D It's a good distinction to make but I meant it the same as self-examination, I didn't really distinguish the difference between the two, so thanks for that.

As far as truth being hard to bear, much of this is due to our inherent ignorance and the uncovering process. It means something new is inevitably going to appear which is beyond the previous capacity to understand it, and so will be unfamiliar and uncomfortable: "the truth hurts", growing "pains" etc.

I agree... Considering we can only estimate how the future, or even the next minute will turn out, the unexpected stuff will get the best of us sometimes.. That's usually when I sit down and say "Okay, now what's really going on and how am I really feeling." To sort of grow into that new setting, as you put it.

I am convinced that people could be more successfully self-examined (instead of avoiding) if they only embraced that feeling of newness - not as uncomfortable even painful unfamiliarity, but as a welcoming of the unknown which is gradually becoming increasingly known within ourselves.


Right, well hey that's just part of living it seems. Everyone's going to have to come to terms eventually as we're always growing physically and mentally. That feeling of newness can be somewhat frightening as well though, maybe the fear should be understood first. Hmm.. Something to think about, for sure.

[Ivy]

Experience isn't linear...having developed a sense of self there is a path to find the honesty of what we are not. But life continues to bring experiences that we havn't understood.. and we are presented again with that journey of self-honesty....because it IS a journey and some journeys take a longer moment than others.

A person who has found their honest self might experience some trauma that is too much to swallow in one gulp...and so they will find their barriers come up to protect them from taking too much....and gradually those barriers will come down again. Self honesty really is a process, not an achievement.

[andrew g]

Hi andrew, thanks for replying. You bring up a lot of good points.


This is true. Speaking from experience this can be pretty bitter if we think of ourselves one way and soon come to the realization that it's not 100% true in our favor. Also marriage is definitely a prime example of this unfortunately. It makes me wonder why people walk into those commitments without being honest to their partner- it's something I struggle to understand! What material desire could be so important at the expense of your own and someone elses happiness?

I agree self honesty is definitely uncomfortable but it's almost like in todays world it's accepted to just shove things aside and deal with them way later. You know so they don't get in the way of school, work, relationships, etc.. Doesn't sound very healthy to me.

Personally, I think if anyone wants to be happy then honesty is a key part of that, whether in solitude or in a relationship. I don't know. I just can't really imagine genuine happiness without a good deal of honesty here and there.



I bet it's a little bit of both! By not holding on to people and relationships too much, but also realizing that we can't run from ourselves forever.

Hi Verunia,

I read your reply a little earlier and agreed with all that you said, and then went away and reflected. I still agree with all you said, but am also now looking at this in a slightly different way.

To give a couple of examples from my own life. A few years ago I used to attend a lot of social functions even though there was a big part of me screaming at me to say 'no'. But I still said 'yes'. I was aware that part of me didnt really want to go, but I still went. I wasnt really lying to myself about what was going on but it was as if I had two truths. A joyful truth telling me 'no', and a fearful truth telling me 'yes'. A confusion of parts. As the years have gone by, the fearful truth has lost some of its energy and the joyful truth has begun to win the day, and I say a lot more no's than I used to.

To give another example. About 12 years ago I was in a horrendous co-dependent relationship, We were engaged to be married but it was just hell. Neither of us really tricked ourselves into thinking we were happy, we knew fine well we were miserable as sin, and the joyful voice inside us both was yelling at us to go our separate ways, but the fearful voice told us that we needed each other. I dont think we particularly lied to ourselves at the time, but the energy of fear was much stronger than the energy of joy. We went our separate ways only when things got to a certain stage of intolerability.

So Im not sure if we are lying to ourselves as much as we experience a conflict of parts in which the voice of fear tells us one thing and the voice of joy tells us another. In my experience, it is when the two voices have gone to war with each other that I come out the other side having experienced a real shift in energy (though the war can be very difficult while its going on).

As I said I think maybe it boils down to values and understandings. Fear tells us we need some 'thing' to be happy and secure, joy tells us that who we are is enough. Im not sure either one is necessarily more true, they are just different energies speaking different truths.

Anyway, I thought that may be another angle to look at this issue from.

[Swami Chihuahuananda]

Hi Verunia,

This may sound like 'mincing words', but I prefer the term "self-examination", vs "self-honesty".
It has more practical utility for me in my daily life. Reason being that self-honesty seems to have moral implications due to the term 'honesty', and as such can present a distorting influence as applied to the process of self-examination, which is considered an essential part of many (any?) spiritual traditions/paths.

The word honesty has all sorts of social and moral attacthments that can be problematic in this instance. I view morality as inherently relative by nature, including depending on one's culture, and therefore many moral values are determined outside of and applied to individuals. All of this has the potential to subvert a genuine process of self-examination simply by creating a self-comparison to conformity with any normative values. Iow's, it is external to self and as such may have an effect on altering behavior, but for what purpose? Spiritual progress seems to require the self-examination process to be completely internal and also of internal necessity.

Of course, all of the forgoing is moot if one views self-honesty as being equivalent with self-examination which is certainly valid. Perhaps I am being a stickler, but imo and for me this is a subtle distinction that is worth making.

As far as truth being hard to bear, much of this is due to our inherent ignorance and the uncovering process. It means something new is inevitably going to appear which is beyond the previous capacity to understand it, and so will be unfamiliar and uncomfortable: "the truth hurts", growing "pains" etc.
This is why some of us deliberately (even if unconsciously) want to put our heads in the sand (on the banks of denial), because we know that "bad news" (eg truth) is always around the corner, and you said as much yourself:


I am convinced that people could be more successfully self-examined (instead of avoiding) if they only embraced that feeling of newness - not as uncomfortable even painful unfamiliarity, but as a welcoming of the unknown which is gradually becoming increasingly known within ourselves.

Perhaps that is even a qualifier of spiritual practice (vs theory) - that someone has the sincerity to self-examine, AND subsequently alter their activity (even internally) based on the results of that self-examining process.




~ J

I feel like 'honesty' has a place in the process; yes, without the moral and social context , though. In AA the process of self examination stresses honesty , where being honest means not lying to one's self , not continuing to cover up and minimize potentially painful truths about one's life , and not being afraid to dig as deep and hard as one needs to in order to clear out anything that is in the way of finding a spiritual connection. The terminology and details are different in different places (substance abuse recovery, psychological therapy, various spirituality approaches...whatever) but from my view, the process is mostly the same . Alcoholics and addicts and co-dependants are notoriously adept at self-deception, looking at other people's problems instead of their own , and just plain avoiding the issues.
My eventual, real, awakening happened side by side with the beginning of my recovery from substance abuse, so the tools I got in rehab and in meetings (way back when I used to go) are very valuable in maintaining the kind of self-honesty that I need to have. You're right, it's not about how the world sees you or how your actions compare to external standards, it's all about how you are inside, what works and what doesn't, what can stay and what needs to be processed out .

Dar

[7luminaries]

Firstly I think we are scared of what we might discover about ourselves if we are honest with ourselves. For example, we might discover that we are bad, or we might discover that we are good, or perhaps even more frightening - we might discover we are both and neither.

Secondly, I think we are afraid of how these discoveries would affect our lives practically, because once we have consciously looked at a secret truth it then becomes much harder to ignore! For example, I wonder how many husbands and wives in the world are scared of facing up to their unhappiness in their marriage because then they might have to take frightening action that is outside of their comfort zone.

The funny thing is in a moment of total honesty, there is no fear at all, no need for a comfort zone. But these moments are hard to maintain with consistency. I think 'getting honest' for most people is a process because it often involves making quite big life changes that would be just too big to make all in one go.

I think, in the end, the day we are totally at peace and at ease with the unknown, the day that we are totally open to change, is also the day that we are able to live totally honest lives.

In moments of total honesty...sometimes there is no fear. sometimes it is terrifying. in total honesty...love doesn't generate fear. But loss does...Fear of loss....or feelings of shame and worthlessness & inadequacy...these generate a lot of terror, & of discomfort at the least...

Mainly b/c you can't get away from them...they sit on you like a toad on a toadstool...till you gradually adapt to the reality of your lowliness and how completely inadequate we are in so many ways...LOL...such is life when the reality of who you are without ego sets in...

we are...???...little ppl still trying to find our way out of the forest...even when we see the path :icon_frown: Thank God for those we love who are willing to stay back & walk with us...even thought they may have left the forest a long time ago. Who else would give us encouragement and keep us company day & night?
:hug3:

7L

[Blue Dragon]

We avoid whatever is painful or what might be painful. Truth hurts. Love hurts. Flip the coin, and pain can be pleasurable. This is called being self-destructive. But self-destructive is also a cover for a deeper pain we feel and want to not feel.

[andrew g]

In moments of total honesty...sometimes there is no fear. sometimes it is terrifying. in total honesty...love doesn't generate fear. But loss does...Fear of loss....or feelings of shame and worthlessness & inadequacy...these generate a lot of terror, & of discomfort at the least...

Mainly b/c you can't get away from them...they sit on you like a toad on a toadstool...till you gradually adapt to the reality of your lowliness and how completely inadequate we are in so many ways...LOL...such is life when the reality of who you are without ego sets in...

we are...???...little ppl still trying to find our way out of the forest...even when we see the path :icon_frown: Thank God for those we love who are willing to stay back & walk with us...even thought they may have left the forest a long time ago. Who else would give us encouragement and keep us company day & night?
:hug3:

7L

Hi 7L,

Having just thought about it, I think what happens is that we have a moment of total honesty which is without fear (and also without mind), but then a moment later the mind kicks in with a bunch of fearful stories about that moment. To give an example, several years ago I flew to another country to attend a wedding which I felt obligated to attend. I was attending out of fear. When I got there I experienced a lot of turmoil because I could vaguely hear the voice of joy telling me to be honest and leave, yet the voice of fear was telling me that I was obliged to stay. So I would sit still, get very present and for a split second I would experience peace. I would hear the voice of peace and joy say 'leave' and then a split second later my mind would kick back in with all its anxious and guilty thoughts about what it would mean to leave. I would then be back in turmoil. In the end the turmoil was so great that I sat still, heard the voice of joy, and acted upon it. As I finally took joyful action the turmoil ceased.

I think that as humans we follow the path of least resistance. Sometimes that path of least resistance can ironically be a path laden with fear and resistance. Eventually, as we heal, I think that path of least resistance becomes the joyful one, i.e. the path of non-resistance itself. For example, to mention again the miserable relationship I was in, I stuck it out for as long as I did because at the time, that was the path of least resistance to stick it out. It was only when a different path of least resistance became available were we able to go our separate ways.

[bbr]

Why is it so difficult to be completely honest with ourselves?That's not my experience, not for many years anyway. I can be too honest I think, both with myself and others, to the point where I have to let things go and relax a bit. I'd say age has something to do with that. While I've always been brutally honest when it comes to my observations and opinions concerning others, it really wasn't until I hit my late 30s that I started to take complete responsibility for myself and my actions.

[athribiristan]

I take a lot of pride in being honest with myself as I believe it paves the way to honest relationships and easier trust- having nothing to hide from anyone, including myself. Though the truth is tough to bear more often than not, I don't really understand why.

So I guess what I'm trying to get at is.. Why is it so difficult to be completely honest with ourselves?

Judgement. We judge ourselves perhaps more harshly than we judge others. So to avoid that judgement we hide things from ourselves or we rationalize (just another word for **) them to make them OK. Judgement is the motivator for all of this. When you lose the self-judgement you lose any reason to deceive yourself. Accept yourself as God's perfect creation. If He is perfect, he is incapable of error. If He created you, without error, then you are perfect.

The error here comes in our assumption of what perfection is. We hold perfection to be unattainable by any means to us as humans, but what we need to realize is that we already are perfect. I think the message of Jesus' ressurection sums this up best. Die with your sins and be reborn pure....every day. Forgive yourself for whatever 'mistakes' you made yesterday, and be reborn in perfection every day. Love yourself with all of your 'flaws' and 'imperfections' and realize that you are you on purpose. Even your annoying little habits are part of your perfection, learn to love them.