Prophet Suggested Punishments to Stop Mutual Killing …

[dattaswami]

(Excerpt from message of Shri Datta Swami)

In the time of the divine Prophet Mohammad, the atmosphere of a specific region was horrible in which several religions appeared with several Gods and all were fighting with each other. The fight brought climax of Chaos and people were killing each other based on the religious differences. Then, Allah appeared in human form called Prophet Mohammad. He established a religion which is the actual Islam proposing only one God called Allah. If this religion gets established, the quarrels will stop and killing each other will end. There was a vigorous necessity to establish Islam even by force to stop mutual fights.

Naturally, those ignorant and blind religions opposed the Prophet. This means that their religions should continue and the killing also should continue without end. To bring them to the concept of one God and to avoid the mutual fights and mutual killing, the Prophet went to the last resort of even killing those leaders and rigid followers of various religions so that eternal peace will be established for future generations. Hence, orders like ‘fight non-Muslims’, ‘cutting off the hands and feet of those against Allah and His messenger’ etc., were passed in that context and in that specific region in which such worst situation existed. These comments of the Prophet were confined to that time and to that region only where people were fighting and killing with each other based on different religions.

In normal situations same Prophet Mohammad advised the followers to protect anybody in problem and to become the escort up to his/her house. Then, preaching about Allah should be done and to leave him/her without any force. Here, in this context, the world Allah means one God only and not several Gods since He established His religion in the context of rejecting many Gods only. Similarly, Lord Krishna, a human incarnation conducted a mighty war to destroy the injustice completely in a specific region and in a specific old span of time. This does not mean that whenever injustice grows, a mighty war is always inevitable.

In a specific region and in some span of specific old time, a divine human incarnation preached the required spiritual knowledge to that place and that context of time and underwent crucifixion silently so that the hearts of those people get reformed by repentance. This does not mean that any spiritual preacher of any time in any area should undergo crucifixion silently to reform the hearts of the people. Today, crucifixion is never allowed on the grounds of spiritual knowledge and even on the grounds of political issues.

Today, in all regions of the world all religions co-exist with mutual love and respect to each other. Even if there are differences in religions, situation is limited to some hot discussions and debates or at the maximum abusing each other very rarely. You can’t bring those comments of the divine Prophet confined to that context and that place to the present context and present world. You should not implement those punishments on non-Islamic religions because that situation was very serious and this situation is very normal.

The divine Prophet Mohammad means ONE GOD as the meaning of the world Allah because the entire lifelong context in which He was placed was horrible fights based on religious differences establishing different Gods. The punishments suggested by Him were in the context of forcible suppression of multiplicity of God by even wars to stop mutual killing based on wrong spiritual knowledge. Today also, many religions and many Gods based on wrong spiritual knowledge exist, but, the situation is not as worse as that of that time.

In that context, wars and severe punishments were inevitable and in this context of today, propagation of right spiritual knowledge is sufficient. You should not extend the statement of one context blindly to other different context of the same event also. Today, the solution can come by cutting the wrong arguments with the help of right arguments and hands and feet need not be cut with knives. The whole problem arises by blindly bringing the comments of God made in one context to another different context due to ignorance without little common sense and a trace of analysis!

[acorn]

Today, in all regions of the world all religions co-exist with mutual love and respect to each other. Even if there are differences in religions, situation is limited to some hot discussions and debates or at the maximum abusing each other very rarely. (Excerpt from message of Shri Datta Swami)
__________________________________________________ ____________

Maybe Swamiji should read the news....at a quick glance it is obvious that this is not so....That time is not yet upon us

Love
acorn

[knightofalbion]

Henry Ford once said of people wanting to buy his cars that you could have any colour you wanted as long as it's black!
The message here seems to be a religious variation on that theme ....

Follow any religion you like, as long as it exalts your soul and makes you a better, kinder person. Bearing in mind that there is nothing without LOVE.

Gandhi once said 'My life is my message'. And that is how you know the true prophets, by their life and by their teachings.

[sirius7]

Firstly, Allah never appeared in human form anywhere. It does not befit His majestic state and All-powerful nature. Secondly, the prophet of Islam was the messenger to carry out that message of truth, as even the first man, Adam was a prophet to his people, as Abraham, Jesus/Isa...

The religion of Islam does not support, promote or dictate killings in any case, this should be apparent to those who actually know the religion. The fact that Islamic teachings have been misconstrued by others have no substantial base for their authenticity. Long before, I even decided which religion to ultimately follow or accept, the common sense approach was to understand it to the very basic level. I really dislike when arrogance and ignorance is shown from different sides to undermine beliefs. All the talk about love and unity when reality shows ulterior motives.

[neil]

Firstly, Allah never appeared in human form anywhere. It does not befit His majestic state and All-powerful nature. Secondly, the prophet of Islam was the messenger to carry out that message of truth, as even the first man, Adam was a prophet to his people, as Abraham, Jesus/Isa...

The religion of Islam does not support, promote or dictate killings in any case, this should be apparent to those who actually know the religion. The fact that Islamic teachings have been misconstrued by others have no substantial base for their authenticity. Long before, I even decided which religion to ultimately follow or accept, the common sense approach was to understand it to the very basic level. I really dislike when arrogance and ignorance is shown from different sides to undermine beliefs. All the talk about love and unity when reality shows ulterior motives.

You say the common sence approach is to understand it at its very basic level......& the basic level is ""LOVE"" in a holy form (prime creators reality of ""LOVE"")..

You say you really ""dislike"" arrogance & ignorance shown from different sides to undermine beliefs.

The emotional thoughts of "DISLIKING" something"" is borne from "anger", & anger is an "UNLOVING" emotion in it's self.

& unlovingness is not understanding it at it's basic core level.

I would say that you yourself are not knowing your chosen religion at it's basic core level either.

With sincere respect Neil.

[dattaswami]

Prophet and Incarnation ... (Excerpt from message of Shri Datta Swami)

When a person says that He was sent by God as a messenger and that He has brought the message of the Lord, the following problem appears. When God is giving the message to that person, nobody has seen it. That person is the single witness. Now the only alternative left in order to believe that the Lord Himself gave the knowledge, is that we have to test the knowledge.

Had we seen the transfer of the knowledge from God to that person with our eyes, we need not have tested that knowledge. It must definitely have been divine knowledge. If we have to believe a statement of that person without the simultaneous universal perception, then we have to believe even a fraud person who utters the same statement.

If you give us a piece of metal and say that is gold, since God gave it, we cannot believe it. Either we must have seen God giving it to you or we must analyze the metal. Moreover the knowledge is not like the piece of metal, which will not change by transfer. When a teacher explains a concept to somebody and asks him to deliver it to his students, it cannot be transferred as it is.

The transfer of knowledge consists of not only the concept but also the explanation. The concept might have been transferred but nobody other than that original teacher can give the same way of explanation of the concept by which the concept pierces into the heart. Therefore to propagate the divine knowledge, the Lord Himself comes down in a human form. Arjuna said the same in the Gita “Tvadanyah…” which means that except the Lord, nobody can preach the divine knowledge and clarify all spiritual doubts.



Firstly, Allah never appeared in human form anywhere. It does not befit His majestic state and All-powerful nature. Secondly, the prophet of Islam was the messenger to carry out that message of truth, as even the first man, Adam was a prophet to his people, as Abraham, Jesus/Isa...

[knightofalbion]

Only those worthy of Divine Instruction receive Divine Instruction. And those great souls who do receive it - the sacred message of Love - proceed to teach it and exemplify it in their daily lives.
This is how one knows the false from the true.

[dattaswami]

I & Father Are Same, Son Of God, Messenger Of God ... (Excerpt from message of Shri Datta Swami)

Why a single Jesus made these three statements? He spoke as per the egoism and jealousy of the human beings, which is the prime reason for not accepting incarnation of God. When these are in climax, people crucified Jesus.

To a deserving devotee, Jesus told He and His father are one and the same.

When Jesus saw a devotee who was slightly affected by jealousy and egoism, Jesus came down by one step saying that He was the son of the God. The word son is indicating that He is different from the God but the same spirit is present in both like the same blood in the father and the son. This means that He is different and smaller than the God but at the same time has the same essence. It is like the relationship between the mighty ocean and the tiny water drop. The father is major and the son is minor component. They resemble qualitatively but differ quantitatively.

When Jesus met a devotee who is fully bacterialized by jealousy and egoism He told that He was the humble messenger of God. Therefore the human incarnation will declare its level based on the level of the receiver. Mohammad told that He is the messenger of the Lord. Thus there is a gradual degradation of spiritual obedience and the gradual growth of jealousy and egoism.

Jesus stands as a transition bridge between Krishna (who claimed Himself as God) and Mohammad (who claimed only as Prophet).

[knightofalbion]

Ocean and water drop, a good analogy. We are all 'water drops' in the 'ocean' of humanity. All elements of the pure essence of Divine Spirit.

Interesting. My viewpoint is that the man Jesus, the Essene priest. was overshadowed by the Christ Spirit and for the duration of his Holy Land ministry God spoke through Jesus.
There were times when he spoke in the third person i.e. 'No one comes to the Father but through Me'. That is to say not him personally, but the Christ Consciousness - which is Love Consciousness - he was representing.
A variation on the often quoted mantra of the mystics, of all faiths, that love alone unites the soul with God.

[dattaswami]

here were times when he spoke in the third person i.e. 'No one comes to the Father but through Me'.

Reply: Based on the level of the receiver, God declares Himself as God or as son of God or messenger of God.

(Excerpt from message of Shri Datta Swami)

God is like free electrons flowing in the atmosphere. These Electrons are the electricity. Then can you heat water by keeping the vessel containing water in the atmosphere? When these Electrons enter a medium like the metallic wire, you can heat water. Similarly if God enters the medium of physical body, it is most convenient for you to clear your doubts, to love and to serve Him. Basically He receives the worship of His devotees.

This electricity can flow in any number of wires. You can see the wire but not electricity. The wires are similar to the physical bodies of different incarnations like Jesus, Mohammed, Krishna, Adi Shankara, Rama etc. Omnipotent Lord can simultaneously exist in any no. of wires also.

The external body is similar to shirt. Same God wore different shirts and appeared in different forms in front of us. You are only seeing the physical bodies and thinking them as different Gods. Same God existed in Jesus, Krishna, Mohammed etc. When God exists in human body, He is called the human incarnation. If you compare Jesus, Krishna, Mohammed etc. they look different externally. But, the internal God is same. The internal God is unimaginable. But, He entered in a physical body to give His experience in the form of preaching excellent divine knowledge, sometimes doing miracles, saving devotees etc.

This internal God in human incarnation, as far as possible, follows the rules of the nature. This taking food, sleep, marriage, celibacy (unmarried), having children etc. are related to the physical body. The internal God is untouched by any of these. The internal God gives His experience in the form of excellent divine knowledge, bliss, sometimes expression of superpowers etc. When God comes in human form, He will decide Himself His plan of action (like marry or remain celibate monk, where to take birth infact everything) as per His divine plan, which no one knows other than Himself.

[knightofalbion]

Yes, but such a man, manifesting the Divine Spirit in person or being a channel for it, must live accordingly. To 'ground' on earth the example of the nature of the Divine and the Plan for mankind - both Love.

We have a saying in England about 'talking the talking and walking the walk'. That is to say, words are easy to speak but living to the same moral code less so, but it is required.
Which is how we may discern the true from the false.
'By their fruits ye shall know them' as Jesus said.

[Please Leave Me]

here were times when he spoke in the third person i.e. 'No one comes to the Father but through Me'.

Reply: Based on the level of the receiver, God declares Himself as God or as son of God or messenger of God.

(Excerpt from message of Shri Datta Swami)

God is like free electrons flowing in the atmosphere. These Electrons are the electricity. Then can you heat water by keeping the vessel containing water in the atmosphere? When these Electrons enter a medium like the metallic wire, you can heat water. Similarly if God enters the medium of physical body, it is most convenient for you to clear your doubts, to love and to serve Him. Basically He receives the worship of His devotees.

This electricity can flow in any number of wires. You can see the wire but not electricity. The wires are similar to the physical bodies of different incarnations like Jesus, Mohammed, Krishna, Adi Shankara, Rama etc. Omnipotent Lord can simultaneously exist in any no. of wires also.

The external body is similar to shirt. Same God wore different shirts and appeared in different forms in front of us. You are only seeing the physical bodies and thinking them as different Gods. Same God existed in Jesus, Krishna, Mohammed etc. When God exists in human body, He is called the human incarnation. If you compare Jesus, Krishna, Mohammed etc. they look different externally. But, the internal God is same. The internal God is unimaginable. But, He entered in a physical body to give His experience in the form of preaching excellent divine knowledge, sometimes doing miracles, saving devotees etc.

This internal God in human incarnation, as far as possible, follows the rules of the nature. This taking food, sleep, marriage, celibacy (unmarried), having children etc. are related to the physical body. The internal God is untouched by any of these. The internal God gives His experience in the form of excellent divine knowledge, bliss, sometimes expression of superpowers etc. When God comes in human form, He will decide Himself His plan of action (like marry or remain celibate monk, where to take birth infact everything) as per His divine plan, which no one knows other than Himself.
according to Mohammad what you saying is the most anti-islamic thoughts
no God did not channel through any Prophet
he sent them holy spirit ( angel by name of Gabriel )
which talked to them and told them what God had to say

it's important to seperate God from humans
who poop fart and eat
use your head ... not litarely

[dattaswami]

You have not read my earlier reply. Anyway I will post again here for your convenience.

Prophet and Incarnation ... (Excerpt from message of Shri Datta Swami)

When a person says that He was sent by God as a messenger and that He has brought the message of the Lord, the following problem appears. When God is giving the message to that person, nobody has seen it. That person is the single witness. Now the only alternative left in order to believe that the Lord Himself gave the knowledge, is that we have to test the knowledge.

Had we seen the transfer of the knowledge from God to that person with our eyes, we need not have tested that knowledge. It must definitely have been divine knowledge. If we have to believe a statement of that person without the simultaneous universal perception, then we have to believe even a fraud person who utters the same statement.

If you give us a piece of metal and say that is gold, since God gave it, we cannot believe it. Either we must have seen God giving it to you or we must analyze the metal. Moreover the knowledge is not like the piece of metal, which will not change by transfer. When a teacher explains a concept to somebody and asks him to deliver it to his students, it cannot be transferred as it is.

The transfer of knowledge consists of not only the concept but also the explanation. The concept might have been transferred but nobody other than that original teacher can give the same way of explanation of the concept by which the concept pierces into the heart. Therefore to propagate the divine knowledge, the Lord Himself comes down in a human form. Arjuna said the same in the Gita “Tvadanyah…” which means that except the Lord, nobody can preach the divine knowledge and clarify all spiritual doubts.





according to Mohammad what you saying is the most anti-islamic thoughts
no God did not channel through any Prophet
he sent them holy spirit ( angel by name of Gabriel )
which talked to them and told them what God had to say

it's important to seperate God from humans
who poop fart and eat
use your head ... not litarely

[neil]

Yes, but such a man, manifesting the Divine Spirit in person or being a channel for it, must live accordingly. To 'ground' on earth the example of the nature of the Divine and the Plan for mankind - both Love.

We have a saying in England about 'talking the talking and walking the walk'. That is to say, words are easy to speak but living to the same moral code less so, but it is required.
Which is how we may discern the true from the false.
'By their fruits ye shall know them' as Jesus said.

Hi there knight.
As you say yes.
And maybe you might agree, that if someone were to have sufficient of the prime creator's (divine love/his very essence) within their soul, to be at Jesus' level of soul "quality/divinity" then it would be in their very nature to walk the walk & talk the talk of righteousness ext ext without having to practice it or to think to be that way.

Such a person would naturally act accordingly, & holyness, lovingness & mercy would simply ooze from them......SMILES....such a person simply couldn't up end the tables of the money changers & the benches of those selling doves & other animals in the temple ext ext. Or act & speak unloving or harsh to any person, as the biblical scriptures say that Jesus.... (such a person)....had done.

Regards Neil.

[knightofalbion]

Firstly, the Bible is only a rough guide to what Jesus actually said, did and taught, having gone through the mill of 'editing'.

The incident in the holy temple certainly happened though. They were using the sacred sanctuary for trading / selling innocent birds and animals to be slaughtered in blood sacrifice, as if a loving God would ever want such a monstrous thing {Love sacrifice i.e. Service is the only sacrifice required to walk the Path}. The fact that the Christ resorted to such dramatic action only serves to highlight, to those who understand, the desecration of the sacred ground and the violation of the Law of Love the traders were committing.

[neil]

Firstly, the Bible is only a rough guide to what Jesus actually said, did and taught, having gone through the mill of 'editing'.

The incident in the holy temple certainly happened though. They were using the sacred sanctuary for trading / selling innocent birds and animals to be slaughtered in blood sacrifice, as if a loving God would ever want such a monstrous thing {Love sacrifice i.e. Service is the only sacrifice required to walk the Path}. The fact that the Christ resorted to such dramatic action only serves to highlight, to those who understand, the desecration of the sacred ground and the violation of the Law of Love the traders were committing.

Knight hello again.
I have been led to believe via a very reliable spiritual being, that Jesus only actually spoke in a loving tone & also acted lovingly, but adamantly, about the atrocities of cruelty to the animals.
& that was enough for the on lookers of his verbal discourse to react angrily & they themselves over turned the tables & riot & indeed it was not Jesus's doing at all...so I am led to believe.

But knight I am only relaying some info, that it would be absolutely not in the minds of beings who have such a quality of soul as those that are at one with the prime creator.

& Jesus was fully in atonement quality of soul with prime creator's way of love.

To up end tables & destroy certain persons belongings, can only come from anger not love, their is only room for love in such exalted beings soul's, darkness does not reside within them.....impossible. ... & they will always find it within themselves to act accordingly with creator's way of love....
.IT IS A NATURAL PHENOMENON FOR THEM TO ACT LOVINGLY.

Such persons could not fall from that much grace, to act out of harmony with prime creators way of love.
Their radiance mesmerizes those that they speak to, & it is with love, in harmony with prime creator's holy, loving & merciful way of love, and it is that, that is needed to have persons understand them & to know what they say is truth.

Unfortunately the on lookers to his discourse of the atrocities, acted out their anger, & that was not Jesus' intent whatsoever.

It is only the very unloving types who will not hear the words of wisdom & love from such exalted beings.

Sincere regards
Neil.

[dattaswami]

Jesus and Peter …

Jesus asked Peter about the opinion of public on Him. Peter told that some are looking Jesus as the Messenger and some are looking Jesus as Son of God. He told that he is looking Jesus as the God Himself. Three views about the human incarnation are always available and these are Dvaita, Vishishtaadvaita and Advaita. According to these three views, Jesus gave the three statements that He is the Messenger, that He is the Son of God and that He is not different from God.

This does not mean that He is changing His state from one to the other in these three positions. His three statements about Himself are given to the devotees of corresponding levels of ego and jealousy. As the ego and jealousy decrease, these three states change according to the devotee. Through out the Gita, Krishna told Arjuna that He is God and remained in the state of Advaita only. The reason for this is that Arjuna was in the lower state of Vishishtaadvaita thinking that Krishna is a partial incarnation of God Narayana.

For him, the higher state of Advaita is preached. This does not mean that Krishna is always in the highest state of Advaita and Jesus is changing between these three states. The difference in the statements of Jesus and Krishna is to be understood from the point of the other side. The other side in the case of Jesus is various devotees at different levels in different times. The other side in the case of Krishna is a single devotee, Arjuna, in a particular time only. The Bible is a collection of statements of Jesus given to various devotees in various times. The Gita is a single statement given to a particular devotee only in a particular time or situation only. Therefore, Jesus and Krishna are not different from each other in the state of human incarnation.

[knightofalbion]

Knight hello again.
I have been led to believe via a very reliable spiritual being, that Jesus only actually spoke in a loving tone & also acted lovingly, but adamantly, about the atrocities of cruelty to the animals.
& that was enough for the on lookers of his verbal discourse to react angrily & they themselves over turned the tables & riot & indeed it was not Jesus's doing at all...so I am led to believe.

But knight I am only relaying some info, that it would be absolutely not in the minds of beings who have such a quality of soul as those that are at one with the prime creator.

& Jesus was fully in atonement quality of soul with prime creator's way of love.

To up end tables & destroy certain persons belongings, can only come from anger not love, their is only room for love in such exalted beings soul's, darkness does not reside within them.....impossible. ... & they will always find it within themselves to act accordingly with creator's way of love....
.IT IS A NATURAL PHENOMENON FOR THEM TO ACT LOVINGLY.

Such persons could not fall from that much grace, to act out of harmony with prime creators way of love.
Their radiance mesmerizes those that they speak to, & it is with love, in harmony with prime creator's holy, loving & merciful way of love, and it is that, that is needed to have persons understand them & to know what they say is truth.

Unfortunately the on lookers to his discourse of the atrocities, acted out their anger, & that was not Jesus' intent whatsoever.

It is only the very unloving types who will not hear the words of wisdom & love from such exalted beings.

Sincere regards
Neil.

As a matter of interest, who is this "very reliable spiritual being"?
Over on the other thread (Re the 'Is There Proof NDEs Aren't Deceptions By Satan" thread) you said, quote " I have, what I believe, to be pretty spot on proof, that near death experiences, can be and are highly influenced by dark spiritual beings" .....

Jesus was Divine, yet also human. Do you think he never felt 'anger', as any of us would when encountering cruelty or great injustice.
The purpose was to demonstrate the outrage of defiling the sacred sanctuary of the holy temple and of blood sacrifices. Maybe people should give thought to the matter, if Jesus felt that strongly about it.
In spiritual teaching terms that's making a statement and underlining it in red ink.

Lets keep things in context. When Muhammed felt 'personal' anger at the Jews of Banu Qurayza, he had the men beheaded and the women and children sold into sexual slavery.
When Jesus felt 'spiritual' anger at the Jews (in the Temple) he overturned their tables and drove them out of the Temple.
I'd say they got off pretty lightly under the circumstances.

[neil]

As a matter of interest, who is this "very reliable spiritual being"?

↑↑ I should have really said spiritual BEINGS...not spiritual BEING.
( more than one )

& no not the belief of so many earthlings, of having arch angels such as.....Michael, Ariel, ext ext those people can believe that arch angels are around them helping them with their menial day to day natural lives, whilst contrary to the natural love of the earthling the angel would be highly exalted in the divine love/very essence of creator, & the angel actually having some sort of meaningful & or sexual relationship with an earthling. ....I just can not fathom it, an angel like lets say Michael being involved with say a person here in Australia, & yet thousands upon thousands of other humans claiming the same thing, possibly most of those claims are happening simultaneously.....NOT POSSIBLE.

"No" exalted beings can be a transitioned family member or an ex neighbor, or large groups of highly exalted ex earthlings that have taken an interest in your well being because you may have started on the narrow road to gods kingdom in a most serious Manor, & they wish to be present as much as they can when they can to do their best to help such a person to stay on the divine love path with as little hindrances from dark beings as possible.

& that is about all I will elaborate on that subject of whom they are, via social media.
---------------------------

Over on the other thread (Re the 'Is There Proof NDEs Aren't Deceptions By Satan" thread) you said, quote " I have, what I believe, to be pretty spot on proof, that near death experiences, can be and are highly influenced by dark spiritual beings" .....

↑↑ Yes that is correct, I did say that & it is true.
-------------------------

Jesus was Divine, yet also human. Do you think he never felt 'anger', as any of us would when encountering cruelty or great injustice.
The purpose was to demonstrate the outrage of defiling the sacred sanctuary of the holy temple and of blood sacrifices. Maybe people should give thought to the matter, if Jesus felt that strongly about it.
In spiritual teaching terms that's making a statement and underlining it in red ink.

↑↑ I would say Jesus was divine yes, but are you really grasping the concept of divinity.
My understanding "OK"....we are in the physical once, & only once. We are hear because our folks desired to exercise their God given rights to create life. You & I. We didn't choose our folks & infact we couldn't because we were only ever a half of a whole sole of two components. ...ying/yang....male/female.
The soul prior to birth has no identity or any understanding of the concept of an identity, so no thoughts.
So the soul splits in two as the first half of that soul is drawn to the newly conceived being & the other half will always be drawn to an opposite sex newly conceived being not long after.

& that is why we are here because of our folks desire to create life.

Now, everyone of us, is in no way divine creatures, no part of us earthly or spiritual is in any way a divine spark....we are created as natural love beings. Of the natural love energies of the universe.

We will only ever start to be divine creatures once we start to receive into our souls the very essence of prime creator.
& it is totally up to us to activate the process, & to keep it flowing into our souls, for it to fully transform our soul into a new kind of soul.....at one with prime creator.
Our soul would be constantly transforming in response to the quantities of creator's essence flowing in.

You see the soul is being reconstructed from the natural love soul that it once was, into the devine soul......a completely different entity. ....it is becoming what most people can not grasp, this gradually changing reconstructed soul is becoming divine....ALL HOLY, ALL LOVING & ALL MERCIFUL....LIKE UNTO THE HEAVENLY FATHER, & ONE OF HIS CHILDREN ...we cease to be the original children that our earghly folks created....WE ARE ONE OF THE ELECT.

& any being can be one of the elect....you see that is another misconception, the elect are not persons/beings elected before the earthly creation, "no" they become one of the elect as they gradually transition into the divine soul.

...& never to have any emotions of unloving'ness whatsoever.
Never to ever be like an earthling ever again.
& just like Jesus you & I could achieve this highly exalted state of being whilst in the earthly physical form.
BUT...we would not have the earthly emotions & thoughts anymore. ....(in other words, we would be in the world but not of it).

So you see, this is why Jesus could not up turn the tables & cause a riot. Because his soul was at that time then & still is, not of the same construct as yours & mine.....ours is of natural man, & his is then & now of the divine being.....no darkness can reside in such an exalted soul, only the most purest love & light. & his radiance & countenance was the proof of the VEGAN pudding.....smiles.

He is the sort of fellow/being that would rather talk lovingly but adamantly, & would rather turn the other cheek rather than start a riot.

The bible is two thousand years old & belive in its every word you may.but I after my many 24/7 moment by moment soul experiences definitely does not, & infact I find probably 90% of it, "as you know what".
--------------------------
Lets keep things in context. When Muhammed felt 'personal' anger at the Jews of Banu Qurayza, he had the men beheaded and the women and children sold into sexual slavery.
When Jesus felt 'spiritual' anger at the Jews (in the Temple) he overturned their tables and drove them out of the Temple.

↑↑ so you say & believe.↓↓

I'd say they got off pretty lightly under the circumstances.

But in my soul experiences, I would say that Muhammad was not anywhere in Jesus' league...I would say that anyone who created such atrocities as Muhammad is said to have done would have had many dark spiritual beings connected to him & or coming & going to & fro from him, & every single one of them were very very heavily invested in him.
& he would have not been a devine being, he would have been a man of the natural love energies.

So maybe thats a new context for you to keep it in.

JESUS WALKED THE WALK & TALKED THE TALK OF PRIME CREATORS DIVINE WAY OF ""LOVE""....HE COULD BE KNOW OTHER WAY, AS DARKNESS & ANGER (ONE & THE SAME THING) CAN NEVER RESIDE IN A FULLY TRANSFORMED SOUL....LIKE UNTO PRIME CREATORS SOUL/VERY ESSENCE....FULL OF LIGHT & LOVE.

ALL HOLY ALL LOVING & ALL MERCIFUL.

The above probably doesn't cover it all, & probably won't alter anyone's thoughts, but there you go.

& with the highest regards from me.....Neil

[acorn]

Gotta check these batteries......my bullsh** meter is going haywire

[neil]

Gotta check these batteries......my bullsh** meter is going haywire


I don't have to check the batteries in my "rudeness detection device".

Maybe you would you like to "ELABORATE"...if you have anything ""PROFOUND"" to add.

[sirius7]

You say the common sence approach is to understand it at its very basic level......& the basic level is ""LOVE"" in a holy form (prime creators reality of ""LOVE"")..

You say you really ""dislike"" arrogance & ignorance shown from different sides to undermine beliefs.

The emotional thoughts of "DISLIKING" something"" is borne from "anger", & anger is an "UNLOVING" emotion in it's self.

& unlovingness is not understanding it at it's basic core level.

I would say that you yourself are not knowing your chosen religion at it's basic core level either.

With sincere respect Neil.

Firstly, my interest joining this forum was not to debate religion but to explore and discover spirituality as received by other beliefs/faiths/thoughts. Having read this article however, I had to respond.

Love does not negate loving principles such as truth, honesty and justice. It's an act of hate and not love to purposefully maligned the foundational principles of others. And in Islam, the essential core belief is that of Tawheed. That Allah's oneness is not shared or lowered by any humanly value. That is the distinction therefore between lovers of Allah and others.

with respect and peace,

[sirius7]

Prophet and Incarnation ... (Excerpt from message of Shri Datta Swami)

When a person says that He was sent by God as a messenger and that He has brought the message of the Lord, the following problem appears. When God is giving the message to that person, nobody has seen it. That person is the single witness. Now the only alternative left in order to believe that the Lord Himself gave the knowledge, is that we have to test the knowledge.

Well for that matter many has not seen God either but believe in Him faithfully. When God created the first human and the first generations of humans do you really think He would just leave them stumbling in the dark without guidance. We both believe that God Himself taught the knowledge but disagree on God being physically present –in the form of a man -for that knowledge to be transferred.

Had we seen the transfer of the knowledge from God to that person with our eyes, we need not have tested that knowledge. It must definitely have been divine knowledge. If we have to believe a statement of that person without the simultaneous universal perception, then we have to believe even a fraud person who utters the same statement.

There is a spiritual heart in Islam, known as the QALB. When it is good all else from the person is good. Sufism teaches the methodology of purifying one's heart and renouncing desires that are ungodly in nature. Goodly hearts are attached to each other and can recognize the pure natures of each other. It doesn't mean by any measure that evil hearts are dismissed rather many chances are given for guidance and redemption. In fact, there have been that such a strong conversion have occured by the permission of the creator that some evils hearts have transferred to become those that hold the strongest of faiths. Besides spiritual recognition as can be highly attested by a valued companion known as Abu Bakr r.a, other means of attestation of faith to the messenger has been noticed. Amongst of which are many narrations affirmed by various sources witnessing his honourable character of truth and honesty, additionally many reported miracles and highly regarded praiseworthy judgments. We elaborate further soon.

If you give us a piece of metal and say that is gold, since God gave it, we cannot believe it. Either we must have seen God giving it to you or we must analyze the metal. Moreover the knowledge is not like the piece of metal, which will not change by transfer. When a teacher explains a concept to somebody and asks him to deliver it to his students, it cannot be transferred as it is.

Which is why the Quran has been protected and many have memorized it's teachings precisely. And, why there is the science of ahaadiths, which have acted to preserve the teachings of the prophet pbuh with various grades of classification. However, the ahaadiths are the secondary sources of Islamic laws and beliefs

The transfer of knowledge consists of not only the concept but also the explanation. The concept might have been transferred but nobody other than that original teacher can give the same way of explanation of the concept by which the concept pierces into the heart. Therefore to propagate the divine knowledge, the Lord Himself comes down in a human form. Arjuna said the same in the Gita “Tvadanyah…” which means that except the Lord, nobody can preach the divine knowledge and clarify all spiritual doubts.

If, God Himself can come down into His creation, when He existed before without the need of a human body, what's now stopping the belief that God can feel pain like the rest of the creation or become weak as they are having embedded Himself in 'human form'. Before that ‘divine human’ where was the divine guidance for humanity that commenced creation . If you truly believe in the oneness of God then, it can’t be that difficult to understand His status and attributes cannot be fully shared or embodied by His creation. And, whatever goodness is reflected rather holds in a miniscule scope of the real.

Why can't the possibility exist that God who never needed humans or creation, appoint protection of His divine knowledge by whomsoever He choses. Why can't the original teacher bless the hearts of His creation to transmit the knowledge correctly? Surely, the one who call towards only one God and His message is different from the one who calls others to worship himself and his humanly deficient qualities that will cease to exist the day he leaves this world, only having his followers to recognize that such a 'divine person' isn't there to protect, bless or guide them but the creator remains ever so watchful of His creation in a place that none can harm or even reach except by His permission.

[sirius7]

This article should suffice in explanations, I'll be happy to help in any further understanding of the matter on prophethood and revelations.



God sent prophets primarily to guide humankind. They were humans of outstanding character that the people could emulate and look to for direction. They were not gods, demi-gods or saints; they were human beings charged with a difficult task. They at times possessed exceptional characteristics and qualities because they had to face unanticipated trials and tribulations in order to spread their message to worship Allah Alone.

In order to support His prophets Allah sometimes gave them extraordinary power. The Arabic word for miracle is mu’jizah meaning something unique that cannot be resisted. The miracles granted to the prophets were not only unique, they were also pertinent and understandable to the people to whom they were sent. When they saw a miracle they knew that it could not have been performed by an ordinary man.

In the time of Prophet Moses magic and sorcery were very common in the land of Egypt therefore Moses’ miracles, such as the staff turning into a serpent and his hand glowing, appealed to the people he was sent to guide. Prophet Moses’ encounter with the magicians at Pharaoh’s court explains the difference between magic and miracles. When the magicians whose serpents were a result of trickery and illusion (magic) saw Moses produce a real serpent they knew at once that it was a miracle. That is why they fell down and prostrated to Allah despite knowing that Pharaoh would have them put to death.

At the time of Jesus, the Israelites were very knowledgeable in the field of medicine thus Prophet Jesus’ miracles included returning sight to the blind, healing lepers and raising the dead.

“And you heal those born blind and the lepers by My leave. And behold! You bring forth the dead by My leave.” (Quran 5:10)

A miracle performed by Allah at the request of Prophet Jesus explains why Islam says that there are two types of miracles. Jesus asked Allah to provide him and his disciples with a table of food. This event is discussed in Surah 5 of the Quran entitled Al-Maidah (The Table Spread). It is an example of a miracle performed at the request, or suggestion of the people, in order to test the truth of the message.

“Jesus, son of Mary! Can your Lord send down to us a table spread (with food) from heaven?” (Quran 5:112)

The disciples wanted to spread the message of Jesus by proclaiming the miracles they witnessed with their own eyes. Another example of this type of miracle is when Prophet Saleh’s people requested he bring out from behind the mountain a she-camel and her offspring.

“We sent the she-camel to Thamud as a clear sign, but they did her wrong.” (Quran 17:59)

The second type of miracle occurs without suggestion. It includes anything similar to what happened when the tree trunk cried and longed for Prophet Muhammad. The Sunnah of Prophet Muhammad contains many other miracles such as water flowing from his (Prophet Muhammad’s) fingers and trees deliberating shading him. Prophet (King) Solomon’s life was also filled with miracles and wonder. His kingdom and his abilities were beyond the capabilities of a human thus clearly showing that God provided him with miracles that made him stand out among others and confirmed his nobility and prophethood. His army consisted of battalions of men, jinn and birds. He was able to communicate with both birds and ants.

Prophet Muhammad was the recipient of one of the most amazing miracles we have the privilege to know about. After a very difficult year in which he lost both his uncle and his beloved first wife Khadijah, Prophet Muhammad was granted a major blessing and miracle that has become known as the Night Journey and Ascension. It was a physical journey by night from the Holy Masjid in Mecca to the Al-Aqsa masjid in Jerusalem. It culminated in his ascension from the heavens into the presence of God.

“Glorified be He Who took His slave on a journey by night from Al-Masjid-al-Haram to Masjid-al-Aqsa, the neighbourhood whereof We have blessed, in order that We might show him of Our signs. Verily, He is the All-Hearer, the All-Seer.” (Quran 17:1)

In the 6th century, the Arabs, although primarily unlettered, were masters of the spoken word. Their poetry and prose was eloquent and a model of literary excellence. Even those who did not believe in Muhammad’s message knew the Quran was literature beyond compare. Thus the Quran itself is considered to be a miracle. Prophet Muhammad said, in an authentic hadith, “Every Prophet was given miracles on account of which their people believed; but, I have been given divine revelation which Allah has revealed to me, and I am hopeful that my followers will outnumber the followers of other prophets on Resurrection Day.”[1]

When Prophet Muhammad said this he was implying that the Quran should be considered a miracle. One who reads the Quran finds that its contents, including scientific, prophetic and historical information, all contribute to Quran’s status as a miracle. All prophets had miraculous aspects to their lives but because of his status as the last prophet, Prophet Muhammad’s dominant miracle, the Quran, is considered a living miracle. The Quran’s challenge to produce a chapter (the shortest being just 3 lines) similar to it still stands today.

[neil]

Love does not negate loving principles such as truth, honesty and justice. It's an act of hate and not love to purposefully maligned the foundational principles of others. And in Islam, the essential core belief is that of Tawheed. That Allah's oneness is not shared or lowered by any humanly value. That is the distinction therefore between lovers of Allah and others.

with respect and peace,

Im not quite sure of your meaning in your post..maybe you might like to explain a little more.

If you Are you saying that I am attacking him & his foundational principles, then you are incorrect.

You may need to re read our posts again to get the gist of it.

Please let me know how you go with it.

Regards neil

[dattaswami]

There are several devotees who belong to Nivrutti (path of liberation) and desire for the Lord in human form to see (Darsanam), to touch (Sparsanam), to hear the knowledge and clarify their doubts (Sambhashanam) and to live along with the Lord (Sahavasa) for achieving these three for a long time. The main purpose is preaching the divine knowledge and clarifying the doubts.

The statues or photos or energetic forms or space cannot preach the knowledge and that is against the universal observation (perception). Preaching of the knowledge by the human forms of the Lord like Krishna, Jesus etc is observed universally and accepted perception. Such universal observation is according to the rules of the nature. When something is possible through a simple way by following the rules of the nature, is it not foolish to do the same simple thing in the complicated way violating the rules of the nature?

When water is available in plenty from the tap, what is the necessity of producing water by forcing Hydrogen and Oxygen to react with the help of an electric arc? To show the production of the water by this reaction, this experiment can be performed once but not every time whenever water is required. To show the superpower of the Lord a statue or a photo or the energetic form or even formless space may talk once.

But to preach the spiritual knowledge continuously, the Lord need not talk continuously through statues or photos or energetic forms or space. Some devotee might have experienced such superpower in some place and in sometime. Such experience is not supported by simultaneous universal observation.

When you are seeing the moon in the sky, others are also observing the same moon simultaneously. This is required to authorize any experience. When this authorization is absent, your experience may be true or might have been due to some psychological disorder. The existence of such psychic experience is also observed in this world. Therefore we cannot isolate the possibility of these two cases in your experience

Therefore there is a necessity for the human form of the Lord and since the Lord is omnipotent, He is coming down in the human form. There cannot be any further argument on this point. I know you are worried that the Lord is modified into the human body and thus the unchangeable Lord has to be changed. Do not worry about this point, because the Lord is never modified into the human body. He only entered into the human body. The word ‘Asritam’ in the verse of Gita ‘Manushim tanumasritam’ means the entry of the Lord into the human body and not the modification of the Lord as a human body. Lord Krishna in Gita clarified this in the verse ‘Avyaktam Vyaktimapannam’.

If He is incapable of coming in human form, He cannot be omnipotent. One need not argue that though the Lord is capable, there is no necessity of such human form. You may not have that necessity. Are you the only human being on this whole earth? Have you taken the opinion of all the human beings to say like this?




We both believe that God Himself taught the knowledge but disagree on God being physically present –in the form of a man -for that knowledge to be transferred.

If, God Himself can come down into His creation, when He existed before without the need of a human body, what's now stopping the belief that God can feel pain like the rest of the creation or become weak as they are having embedded Himself in 'human form'. Before that ‘divine human’ where was the divine guidance for humanity that commenced creation . If you truly believe in the oneness of God then, it can’t be that difficult to understand His status and attributes cannot be fully shared or embodied by His creation. And, whatever goodness is reflected rather holds in a miniscule scope of the real.

Why can't the possibility exist that God who never needed humans or creation, appoint protection of His divine knowledge by whomsoever He choses. Why can't the original teacher bless the hearts of His creation to transmit the knowledge correctly? Surely, the one who call towards only one God and His message is different from the one who calls others to worship himself and his humanly deficient qualities that will cease to exist the day he leaves this world, only having his followers to recognize that such a 'divine person' isn't there to protect, bless or guide them but the creator remains ever so watchful of His creation in a place that none can harm or even reach except by His permission.