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Roselove
08-02-2011, 12:24 AM
I am wondering if anyone has expierenced this

I am changing and it scares me.. I don't view the world in the same way, my beliefs, morals and values have changed, everything I thought I was, I thought I valued is now being questioned, I feel so confused.

Spiritlite
08-02-2011, 12:25 AM
YOu're growing don't be scared but be open to receive and learn.
Spiritlite.

Roselove
08-02-2011, 12:35 AM
true but i feel like i have to change things that make me, well me and i don't want to lol just to get by

tragblack
08-02-2011, 12:40 AM
It`s gonna be alright!

Jules
08-02-2011, 12:45 AM
Rosieposieeeee !!!

Hallelujah chicken :) .... welcome to the start of your transformation!
By posting what you have, you've recognised and acknowledged that you ARE changing. And remember - you have to know what you're NOT before you know who and what you ARE. You're doing just fine, accept that you ARE changing, and it's going to be for the better. You're learning about SELF. And even though it seems soo negative and hard right now, you'll find the positives out of every single experience you have.
You'll be ok. Try to relax and chill a little. You'll get there, just trust trust and trust some more.

Love light and laughter
Jue
xxx

Blue Dragon
08-02-2011, 12:48 AM
I enjoy change and transformation with new awareness and knowledge. But yes sometimes if I change too rapidly I have the same crisis. I panic at the feeling of groundlessness because I am leaving a lot behind or letting a lot go that made me feel secure and whole and at peace. But remember why the change happened. Because you had become in need of more, you were restless. My answer has been to not totally dump everything, retain those elements of the old that still are useful and bring it into the new space. Once you get settled into the new space, you will feel stronger and more grounded and then what needs to be further dropped will drop away. Don't be black or white, its better to be gray as you move along.

You have discovered the location of an oasis in the desert, no need for water when your there, but it is wise to still use the water you already have, even though its warm and has sand in it, while you explore the new oasis and find the new water source.

Roselove
08-02-2011, 12:52 AM
juliepolie!! sorry that's the best nickname i can come up with lol Great advice

I think this transition is making me insane, ever since learning about law of attraction etc I am paranoid about everything I attract, I have been second guessing myself a lot, I know I needed to change and release past traumas etc but I worry what others will think of me now etc (part of lesson is learning to speak my truth), I am noticing since I've begun asserting myself people are reacting and it's not postive lol.. I don't want conflict but I am being guided to share my beliefs

Kaere
08-02-2011, 12:52 AM
true but i feel like i have to change things that make me, well me and i don't want to lol just to get by

*ahem* if the changes are happening on their own, then you're still you, you're just a slightly different you. You can't force a change, so that might be why it feels unnatural and why you don't want to.

Roselove
08-02-2011, 12:53 AM
I hope so trag!

yes true blue! i think i jumped into this head first and now it's all too much, i don't want to know anymore now lol

Roselove
08-02-2011, 12:54 AM
true kaere, i guess i have to heal old patterns that aren't working for me, but when i try to change them i don't feel like me the people pleasing always pleasent me anymore, it feels werid to stand up for myself and say what i really think and express how i feel, i feel worried about how i will be recieved now since people seem to be responding to the change negatively

Blue Dragon
08-02-2011, 01:03 AM
The spiritual path is no joke. You can lose friends and family members because of growth. Why would a slaveowner be happy the slave insists on being free? Should the former slave be sad the slaveowner is unhappy with the new situation? I don't think so. Now its the slaveowner's turn to grow because the slave is gone now.

Your growth tends to require those close to you to grow too. Or the closeness may not remain.

Roselove
08-02-2011, 01:05 AM
yup, i have lost all my friends and repuation, i feel like i have no support and no one to talk to now

dogninja
08-02-2011, 01:10 AM
I think you are pretty great Rosewater. You totally strike me as a person capable of confidently manifesting her own love and greatness, regardless of obstacle.

Roselove
08-02-2011, 01:14 AM
aww how sweet thank you!

Blue Dragon
08-02-2011, 01:16 AM
I go thru that every time I make major changes. This can be a solitary path until you find like minds. Or just give people time to catch up or get used to the new you. Those that matter will come around or stay around. I am at the level I don't mind if no one is around. I only need a small amount of social contact to satisfy whatever social need is within me. Rest of the time I am happy in my solitary activities and pursuits.

Roselove
08-02-2011, 01:20 AM
yes i guess i just wish i had one friend, someone to have fun with, i am going through a difficult period right now and it would help to take my mind of things.

Zeliar791
08-02-2011, 01:28 AM
The spiritual path is no joke. You can lose friends and family members because of growth. Why would a slaveowner be happy the slave insists on being free? Should the former slave be sad the slaveowner is unhappy with the new situation? I don't think so. Now its the slaveowner's turn to grow because the slave is gone now.

Your growth tends to require those close to you to grow too. Or the closeness may not remain.

Yeah... It appears I will have to change reality before I will have any decent company. Most people are content with worshiping objects nowadays... I am stuck in some dead beat town, and only have enough resources to survive. I spend most of my time collecting aura.

Verunia
08-02-2011, 01:35 AM
I am changing and it scares me.. I don't view the world in the same way, my beliefs, morals and values have changed, everything I thought I was, I thought I valued is now being questioned, I feel so confused.

God, you sound just like me... :icon_eek:

I'm going through the same stuff. I know, it's totally scary and confusing. You have to have faith though, because remember, you are not alone in this. I've been to my doctor more times since my awakening through all the anxiety and physical illness that's been released- I'm still going through it. Almost everything about me has changed, well, from the outside looking in. It's amazing but also extremely discomforting, I know.. Just know that it's for your good. Great things you cannot even imagine will come to you.

Haha, the song I'm listening to coincidentally just went.. "On this lonely road of faith."

Well.. Cheers I guess. To life and love and all the scary **** we have to trek through to get there. :smile:

Roselove
08-02-2011, 01:38 AM
ahh yeah the anxiety is terrible, i can't wait to release all of this and just be normal

Blue Dragon
08-02-2011, 02:02 AM
There is no destination called normal, but you do want to feel grounded. Do an activity that you feel grounded doing. I go to music, books, funny movies, yoga, visualizations, magazines, or eat at my fave restaurants. Or I just lay in a hot bath. Be kind to yourself.

psychoslice
08-02-2011, 02:09 AM
After true Awakening there is no identity left, there is the Realization that the identity we thought was us, was just an illusion.

Zeliar791
08-02-2011, 02:36 AM
The state of non being that would be called "nirvana". Regardless, there is no end to the spiritual path. Things can alter to any set of parameters within any period of time. The question should be, does truth even exist?

Gem
08-02-2011, 02:37 AM
After true Awakening there is no identity left, there is the Realization that the identity we thought was us, was just an illusion.

No it wasn't... it wasn't even wasn't... It is a thought, still is.

Gem
08-02-2011, 02:38 AM
The state of non being that would be called "nirvana". Regardless, there is no end to the spiritual path. Things can alter to any set of parameters within any period of time. The question should be, does truth even exist?

That depends on honesty.

psychoslice
08-02-2011, 03:03 AM
No it wasn't... it wasn't even wasn't... It is a thought, still is.
Exactly, just a thought arising from what IS, but then there is attachment and the thought is owned by what we believe to be our identity.

Zeliar791
08-02-2011, 03:21 AM
That depends on honesty.

Then it would be dishonest to not question things.

Zeliar791
08-02-2011, 03:27 AM
Exactly, just a thought arising from what IS, but then there is attachment and the thought is owned by what we believe to be our identity.

I prefer to assess my identity in the context of the present. One cannot derive an ought from an is after all...

psychoslice
08-02-2011, 03:32 AM
I prefer to assess my identity in the context of the present. One cannot derive an ought from an is after all...
No matter, you still have no identity, for who are you ?, whatever you believe you are is just the programming and conditioning, in the present or not.

Zeliar791
08-02-2011, 04:07 AM
No matter, you still have no identity, for who are you ?, whatever you believe you are is just the programming and conditioning, in the present or not.

Indeed... Just programming and conditioning. Same as everybody else. Which comes down to the question, does free will even exist?

psychoslice
08-02-2011, 04:33 AM
Indeed... Just programming and conditioning. Same as everybody else. Which comes down to the question, does free will even exist?
well who would it exists for ?, for the programming ?, so free will seems to exists as long as we still believe we are the mind body organism, so in that since it does. But when there is the Realization that there is no one here to have free will, then no it doesn't exists, it is then seen that nothing is septate and what arises is just Being being.

Gem
08-02-2011, 04:47 AM
Then it would be dishonest to not question things.

That depends on the answer

Spiritlite
08-02-2011, 04:53 AM
Rose I had such bad anxiety in my 20's I have no idea how old you are but now I'm 36 and although I have anxiety still it's not as bad, I hate to say this but i've learned to live with it, some of us are more anxious than others' and some of us are just naturally anxious in my opinion.
Spiritlite.

Zeliar791
08-02-2011, 05:14 AM
That depends on the answer

The answer is always questionable.

Gem
08-02-2011, 06:38 AM
The answer is always questionable.

That's true. Hehehehe.

It's a mystery.

Swami Chihuahuananda
08-02-2011, 09:59 AM
change used to drag me kicking and screaming but eventually I got used to and started to welcome it, because it means alwyas further up and further in . can't stop it anyway, and why would we want to?. identity crisis is just part of the deal, except that it isn't a crisis . it's more of a continual restructuring to higher levels . business as usual in the spiritual development department (^8
Dar

Zeliar791
08-02-2011, 08:11 PM
change used to drag me kicking and screaming but eventually I got used to and started to welcome it, because it means alwyas further up and further in . can't stop it anyway, and why would we want to?. identity crisis is just part of the deal, except that it isn't a crisis . it's more of a continual restructuring to higher levels . business as usual in the spiritual development department (^8
Dar

Nihilism... It isn't a fun state to be in.

Swami Chihuahuananda
08-02-2011, 09:12 PM
Nihilism... It isn't a fun state to be in.

not what I am describing , because the paradox is that individuality is also exalted . what's wrong with you may just be what's right with you. aspects of our selves that kept us down , once untwisted when we make a huge shift, become aspects that assist in unfoldment .

Perry J
08-02-2011, 09:21 PM
I am wondering if anyone has expierenced this

I am changing and it scares me.. I don't view the world in the same way, my beliefs, morals and values have changed, everything I thought I was, I thought I valued is now being questioned, I feel so confused.

Kim Michaels talks about this condition here, and he says much more...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=prHXZsx9DE4&feature=mfu_in_order&list=UL

(I have linked to this beautiful video here and there before, and I do it when I feel it will be appreciated...)

Roselove
08-02-2011, 09:41 PM
thank you!

Zeliar791
08-02-2011, 09:53 PM
not what I am describing , because the paradox is that individuality is also exalted . what's wrong with you may just be what's right with you. aspects of our selves that kept us down , once untwisted when we make a huge shift, become aspects that assist in unfoldment .

It was right in that it was the only path for me to tread. In the end everything I did was right, even though I had everyone challenging me on this. The ends always justify the means, for everything is done for a reason.

Chrysaetos
08-02-2011, 10:04 PM
Beliefs, morals, and values always change, because of their subjective nature.

'Identity' change is a fascinating process, we all go through phases.. maybe even constantly.. :0
Sometimes it goes rapidly and we then put markers where phases 'start' and 'end'.
It could be that our beliefs, morals, values, and identity constantly change, but only when the change is rapid we become aware of it.:D

Zeliar791
08-02-2011, 10:10 PM
Beliefs, morals, and values always change, because of their subjective nature.

'Identity' change is a fascinating process, we all go through phases.. maybe even constantly.. :0
Sometimes it goes rapidly and we then put markers where phases 'start' and 'end'.
It could be that our beliefs, morals, values, and identity constantly change, but only when the change is rapid we become aware of it.:D

Yeah... I had a lot of fun experiences, and my personality changed several times. I only wish I had more control over the developmental process.

Swami Chihuahuananda
09-02-2011, 12:00 AM
It was right in that it was the only path for me to tread. In the end everything I did was right, even though I had everyone challenging me on this. The ends always justify the means, for everything is done for a reason.


oh yeah ! it was shocking when I realized that particular thing was true about myself too. we're so used to thinking that bad things are only bad and we'd be better off if they never happened to us, but they were all part of the means that led to the end , and the end I ended up with was not one I could see happening any other way given my circumstances , and is definitely and end I wanted to end up with, given my circumstances , so , ultimately it is justified. even being sort of a victim of circumstance (lacking the control you mention) is sometimes all we can manage, but where we end up, where we're going, that's what's important, not how it may look to us while we're in the middle of some weird looking junk .

D

Swami Chihuahuananda
09-02-2011, 12:09 AM
Beliefs, morals, and values always change, because of their subjective nature.

'Identity' change is a fascinating process, we all go through phases.. maybe even constantly.. :0
Sometimes it goes rapidly and we then put markers where phases 'start' and 'end'.
It could be that our beliefs, morals, values, and identity constantly change, but only when the change is rapid we become aware of it.:D

I feel like it's a constant process , and that it should be . I mean, we start out here not knowing anything , and we're built to evolve . We weren't bulit to go from a totally unaware state to a totally aware state all at once .
I see us as a manifestation of the universe creating pieces of itself in order to experience itself . without individualized aspects working through these processes, there is only oneness . with beings like us, there is the opportunity for the universe to know itself and marvel, a paradox around every corner :D

Emmalevine
09-02-2011, 08:22 AM
Identity is never stable - it changes with age, occupation, life events etc. I think peace comes when that is realised. Change is part of life, nothing stays the same - not even identity. I believe that the more we awaken the more we realise the spiritual consciousness we are, not earthly identity.

andrew g
09-02-2011, 09:05 AM
Beliefs, morals, and values always change, because of their subjective nature.

'Identity' change is a fascinating process, we all go through phases.. maybe even constantly.. :0
Sometimes it goes rapidly and we then put markers where phases 'start' and 'end'.
It could be that our beliefs, morals, values, and identity constantly change, but only when the change is rapid we become aware of it.:D

I agree with what you said here, but that sounds kind of morally relativist for you Chrysaetos. So where do you see the absolute values of good and bad, right and wrong coming in? i.e. when you say that murder is bad, where are you finding that absoluteness in the grand scheme of things? Im guessing that you dont believe in some kind of judgmental God do you?

(Incidentally, just because Im relativist doesnt mean that I think we should be necessarily 'soft' on people)

andrew g
09-02-2011, 09:07 AM
Identity is never stable - it changes with age, occupation, life events etc. I think peace comes when that is realised. Change is part of life, nothing stays the same - not even identity. I believe that the more we awaken the more we realise the spiritual consciousness we are, not earthly identity.

Nice. I agree. Peace is about being surrendered to, or allowing, or trusting in change.

Uma
09-02-2011, 10:36 AM
Hi Rosewater,

I remember you posted a few weeks about about scarey Kundalini experiences you were having...and I think I said they are only a precursor to a consciousness shift, feeling different and seeing the world as different... So congratulations to you. You've passed through a portal in the journey to oneness. Everything you've described here is "normal" from a soul perspective. There will be more portals to cross - for all of us - each one inviting us to shed a little more of our attachments. The journey gets lonelier and lonelier as fewer and fewer souls aspire to know their own greatness so your human companions will be fewer and fewer - but you will move closer and closer to the Divine - that which fulfills ALL desires!! God is the best friend to have!

And remember - before a new house can be built, the old one has to be demolished. No pain, no gain. The Divine builds you a new house, you move in, it takes a while to get used to it and the new neighbourhood.... After a while that one will need replacing too. That's generally how it works.

Chrysaetos
09-02-2011, 12:01 PM
I agree with what you said here, but that sounds kind of morally relativist for you Chrysaetos.
So where do you see the absolute values of good and bad, right and wrong coming in? i.e. when you say that murder is bad, where are you finding that absoluteness in the grand scheme of things? Im guessing that you dont believe in some kind of judgmental God do you?
(Incidentally, just because Im relativist doesnt mean that I think we should be necessarily 'soft' on people)Interesting reply. To answer the point you're making: No, recognizing life as process doesn't mean we have to be moral relativists. Although morals and values change, this does not mean we abandon them completely. We are not mere observers, but living the game as well. I do believe some morals and values are better than other. As an example, I prefer a liberal society over Islamic sharia. I find murder, rape, and torture ''bad'' in the sense that it causes unnecessary suffering, suffering that we could prevent.
We don't need gods or a belief in karma to have morals. Empathy is part of our nature.

Elfay
09-02-2011, 12:49 PM
Great topic - and yes, it can be scary and wonderful at the same time. I know its change me in a lot of ways. Its made me so much more aware of my surroundings and to question so much more. My growth has made me realize so much and not take things for granted as I once did.

andrew g
09-02-2011, 01:05 PM
Interesting reply. To answer the point you're making: No, recognizing life as process doesn't mean we have to be moral relativists. Although morals and values change, this does not mean we abandon them completely. We are not mere observers, but living the game as well. I do believe some morals and values are better than other. As an example, I prefer a liberal society over Islamic sharia. I find murder, rape, and torture ''bad'' in the sense that it causes unnecessary suffering, suffering that we could prevent.
We don't need gods or a belief in karma to have morals. Empathy is part of our nature.

I also dont think that I have abandoned values, for example I tend to value peace more than I do conflict, though there are times when it seems I value conflict more than I do peace!

So, even though you have values/morals such as finding murder bad, do you think its an absolute value/moral, or is it your own moral? i.e are you saying that you tend to see it as bad in your system of values, or are you saying its 'absolutely' bad? If its an absolute value/moral, what is this absolute?

I agree that empathy is part of our nature, which adds an interesting dynamic to this whole thing. What would you say empathy gives us a knowing of exactly?

Chrysaetos
09-02-2011, 01:27 PM
So, even though you have values/morals such as finding murder bad, do you think its an absolute value/moral, or is it your own moral? i.e are you saying that you tend to see it as bad in your system of values, or are you saying its 'absolutely' bad? If its an absolute value/moral, what is this absolute?It can be seen as absolutely bad, but not necessarily in any godly sense.

Morals are partly based on our outer influences but at the same time we use them as we see fit. We are influenced and made by these factors but at the same time we make them. But humans are also influencing one another so there are no ''6 billion'' views or anything like that. There is no ''my system of values'' or ''my truth and your truth''.I agree that empathy is part of our nature, which adds an interesting dynamic to this whole thing. What would you say empathy gives us a knowing of exactly?A knowing and caring of the suffering and pain of other beings.

andrew g
09-02-2011, 02:10 PM
It can be seen as absolutely bad, but not necessarily in any godly sense.

Ok, if its not in a godly sense, what sense is it absolutely bad? Perhaps it might help me to understand if you clarify what you mean by 'bad'...? Do you mean 'wrong'?

Morals are partly based on our outer influences but at the same time we use them as we see fit. We are influenced and made by these factors but at the same time we make them. But humans are also influencing one another so there are no ''6 billion'' views or anything like that. There is no ''my system of values'' or ''my truth and your truth''.

I very much agree we are influencing each other, but I would say that we do tend to each hold some beliefs quite rigidly which form a sytem of values.

A knowing and caring of the suffering and pain of other beings.

I agree that there is a knowing of the suffering and pain of others.Would you say there is also a knowing of the love and joy of others? Or is the empathy limited to the suffering and pain?

Just to clarify my position, I would say there is an inner knowing or empathy of love and joy just as much as there is the suffering and pain. So I would say the inherent knowledge or inner knowing is that some actions take us closer towards the Source of life (which is love) and some actions take us more deeply into duality and the relative nature of life (suffering and pain).

Chrysaetos
09-02-2011, 02:27 PM
I agree that there is a knowing of the suffering and pain of others.Would you say there is also a knowing of the love and joy of others? Or is the empathy limited to the suffering and pain?There is a difference between empathy and sympathy, humans have both.

Even though suffering is a natural part of this world, I think we should strive to reduce it there where we can, or we get a complete anarchistic society in which the rapist and murderer become heroes. We just have empathy and sympathy. I think I know what you're getting at though, teleology? :tongue:

andrew g
09-02-2011, 02:50 PM
There is a difference between empathy and sympathy, humans have both.

Even though suffering is a natural part of this world, I think we should strive to reduce it there where we can, or we get a complete anarchistic society in which the rapist and murderer become heroes. We just have empathy and sympathy. I think I know what you're getting at though, teleology? :tongue:

I agree that empathy and sympathy are subtlely different. I think the first is an innateness, the second is more of a behaviour.

Im gonna have to go and look up what teleology this time, coz thats the second time you've mentioned it!

I think in our own unique and often bizarre ways we are all trying to reduce the suffering in our lives. The question is....what is the most effective way? At an individual level, what is the cause of the suffering?

Would you agree that a person who is at peace wouldnt murder or rape except in a very very strange set of circumstances?

Okay, I just looked it up and had a brief read (though it doesnt look like something that is easy to read briefly!) but I would say I am teleogical in that I think the ever changing movement of creation comes from an unchanging stillness of source (and returns to a source) and that it is through creation that source is able to experience itself.

LaMont Cranston
09-02-2011, 03:07 PM
Since you are talking about empathy and sympathy, how about compassion and pity? Personally, I'm not a fan of pity at all. To me, it seems to have a feeling of hopelessness that goes with it.

andrew g
09-02-2011, 03:11 PM
Since you are talking about empathy and sympathy, how about compassion and pity? Personally, I'm not a fan of pity at all. To me, it seems to have a feeling of hopelessness that goes with it.

Im not into 'pity' either Mr. C.

Swami Chihuahuananda
09-02-2011, 06:15 PM
Compassion and empathy are functional and healthy. Pity is not , because it is like saying you are better and the other person is less-than. It's not recognizing and acknowledging the other person as a master , thinking that their spirit can't care for them , and them seeing themselves that way is why they are where they are , basically. The universe loves you so much that it conforms to fit your pictures of reality, so the saying goes .

D

Zeliar791
09-02-2011, 08:09 PM
oh yeah ! it was shocking when I realized that particular thing was true about myself too. we're so used to thinking that bad things are only bad and we'd be better off if they never happened to us, but they were all part of the means that led to the end , and the end I ended up with was not one I could see happening any other way given my circumstances , and is definitely and end I wanted to end up with, given my circumstances , so , ultimately it is justified. even being sort of a victim of circumstance (lacking the control you mention) is sometimes all we can manage, but where we end up, where we're going, that's what's important, not how it may look to us while we're in the middle of some weird looking junk .

D

Existence is a state. A seed cannot plant itself, just as an egg cannot hatch itself.