This is a real grounded post, please hash this out with me.

[Justme1981]

OK, I value many of you on here and many of you have great wisdom and insight or may relate to what I write. So, please do respond.

The point I am trying to come to terms with now is a thought I had, which is, "Not trying to change the world or save the world is respecting, truly respecting everyone's decision." To elaborate, what I mean by this is truly respecting and loving people is accepting the decision they make, even if you know they are harmful or bad for themselves and everyone else.

It's a way to keep my sanity at this point but it should be more, maybe it's just an excuse but I really think this is a lesson God wants me to learn no matter how painful it is to me. Just as an example, I am very worried the direction the world is heading and I'm especially, especially shocked that many people don't see it or are contributing to it and they just can't be reasoned with; they have to experience it for themselves. But, if I truly loved and respected them I wouldn't try to intervene, just let them make the decision they are going to make and let them learn the only way they know how. Again, even if it harms the rest of us, we are all going through it to learn. To learn how to love people who make bad decisions and to learn how to cope with their bad decisions instead of just hating them or othering them. If this doesn't make sense ask.

I consciously know this is a lesson for me, but it's a hard lesson and it makes me feel cynical and jaded -- I'm very afraid of becoming cynical and jaded, I think that is the height of the wrong turn to take. So, to avoid becoming cynical and jaded I always feel the need to rage at God. I feel it is better to love people with an open heart and hate God for putting them through this while, while, while keeping me safe then love God and hate people (I see this tendency too many times with certain religious people, we love God but we don't love people).

Again, God has given me everything. He has shown me miracles, he has protected me, and he has helped me live a comfortable safe life. I've had many, many, many challenges and I have not had a privileged easy life but, but, but I've weathered it with such love and understanding. As I tell me nephews, this life of mine I would not have it any other way; I have grown and learned so much that I would not want to experience it or have it differently. Again, I grew up poor, went to an expensive school, became a researcher, moved my parents into a nice middle class community, developed my mental illness, struggled with it and employment, prayed, prayed, prayed, had amazing spiritual experiences, and now I live a peaceful life where I have everything I want and need. So, God, has been there for me and I am grateful.

Again, forgive me if it seems like I am being religious and not spiritual. It could be I have done this things called life so many times I know how to weather it. Where younger souls are more reactive to the pains in their life. It could be, as I have been told by mediums, that I have done this life so many times I know how to game it, how to get by and we will all learn that with experience. It could also be that if everyone had more experience to pain and suffering they would know how to weather it, be more open to help from the other side, and come out of it like me, safe and with gratitude...but it takes a little bit of spiritual maturity to get there and we will all get there one day. It could be I am just missing that if I know how to live life it is because I am older and they are younger, so I should love them just like I love my nephews and my parents love me...even if this people are of all physical ages, but spiritually they are young.

It felt better to write that. Does anyone relate? Is anyone learning this lesson? Has anyone already learned this lesson? What do others think?

The idea I struggle with, "Loving others is not trying to save the world or them, it is accepting their choices and decisions they make even if they are harmful and still loving them."

[Khalli]

All you can do is give unconditional love and let others walk their own life paths no matter how wrong or even if it violates your own values/beliefs.

Funny you posted this now. My Wife and I took my Stepson to lunch today to ask Him about somethings He has been posting on facebook. Seems He wants to commit suicide over the fact His 3 year old is totally deaf because of bacterial meningitis. She is having issues with His thoughts, I'm not. I told Him It is His life to do as He pleases, but, is it fair to leave His wife alone with His Son.
I can't stop Him, I can only be there if He needs to talk.

[Abbara]

It felt better to write that. Does anyone relate? Is anyone learning this lesson? Has anyone already learned this lesson? What do others think?

The idea I struggle with, "Loving others is not trying to save the world or them, it is accepting their choices and decisions they make even if they are harmful and still loving them."

Dear Justme1981, I believe you have it correct. I'm in the midst of a situation with family that is just what you have described so clearly. I love them. I am assisting them to a better footing in life, hoping they will take the opportunity to take good steps. Sometimes they want to hear advice, usually not. They have their own opinions and ways of doing things, so different from mine.

We cannot fix others, we must each fix ourselves. Trying to fix others says that we find them to be unsatisfactory or broken and that often is not received as being loving. Loving and honoring ourselves is crucial to being able to love others.

So like you, I have also had to step back and stop being anxious, annoyed, or grumpy, upsetting the delicate balance of peace in my heart and in the house. I catch my thoughts as soon as a grumble starts to bud, and I redirect it to count the many blessings and the progress we have made. Recently, I've felt more comfortable to be joyful and at peace with myself in the middle of the confusion. That has allowed me to returning attention to the things that concern me, my projects and needs... without guilt!

I have two close friends who are experiencing and verbalizing much the same response to their own trials. We remind each other that we made choices about what qualities we wanted to work on in this life, before coming. That helps.

Many blessings to you. I appreciate your post.

[vortex]

Gods will will be done on earth as it is in heaven
“who am I to judge gods will”

We as humans say things are wrong and right and put meaning to it
Every one is perfect, whole, complete, and truly loved the way they are

If you live in the moment there is nothing to fix just create from the moment in inspiration and love
There is nothing to learn for you will evolve in the experience

You have total freedom to create any belief structure you like your choice
Total freedom but full responsibility and power you create your reality

When you lose the search to make things whole peace lives

These are parts of my beliefs and knowings now and I must say I have a lot more love and respect for people now

[Lorelyen]

The point I am trying to come to terms with now is a thought I had, which is, "Not trying to change the world or save the world is respecting, truly respecting everyone's decision." To elaborate, what I mean by this is truly respecting and loving people is accepting the decision they make, even if you know they are harmful or bad for themselves and everyone else.
That's the root of unconditional love. Have no expectations of people but value them for what they are and if they impinge on your life, value them for what they bring. If they bring discord then you have to steer clear but they are still who they are and your discord may not be someone else's.

It's a way to keep my sanity at this point but it should be more, maybe it's just an excuse but I really think this is a lesson God wants me to learn no matter how painful it is to me. Just as an example, I am very worried the direction the world is heading and I'm especially, especially shocked that many people don't see it or are contributing to it and they just can't be reasoned with; they have to experience it for themselves. But, if I truly loved and respected them I wouldn't try to intervene, just let them make the decision they are going to make and let them learn the only way they know how. Again, even if it harms the rest of us, we are all going through it to learn. To learn how to love people who make bad decisions and to learn how to cope with their bad decisions instead of just hating them or othering them. If this doesn't make sense ask.You are not alone, worry about the state of the world/humanity. Many of the world's miscreants are tied to an oppressive religions or the greed of wealth. Many have been brainwashed from birth, some are just at one extreme of what you call normality, namely the psychopaths that run corporations (or even bosses in their departments). The hope for change to me lies in an abrupt change of circumstances forcing them to a wider perspective. (Have to be careful not to get too political here....) like the capitalist system (that allows a minority of people to benefit from wealth drawn from the labours of others). With automation creeping throughout the world, work for humans is diminishing by the day. Automation increases output and improves profit. Capitalism depends on the consumption of goods and services. But if people aren't working they aren't earning so there'll be no one to buy said goods and services. So the whole capitalist edifice could fall apart. If so, those wealthy are in for a dramatic change of lifestyle.

It's then that they'll learn to "feel what wretches feel" (King Lear. W.S)

I consciously know this is a lesson for me, but it's a hard lesson and it makes me feel cynical and jaded -- I'm very afraid of becoming cynical and jaded, I think that is the height of the wrong turn to take. So, to avoid becoming cynical and jaded I always feel the need to rage at God. I feel it is better to love people with an open heart and hate God for putting them through this while, while, while keeping me safe then love God and hate people (I see this tendency too many times with certain religious people, we love God but we don't love people). Be our guest, as they say - rage at God. Look at the mess "he" created. He really is a grumpy old so-and-so, always ready to blame the very thing he created for his failings. Think about Sodom and Gomorrah, a few people having the temerity to enjoy themselves and he throws a hissy fit and destroys the lot. He's a terrible politician too - (he invented politicians, let's not forget) playing politics with the devil using poor old Job as the victim. Honestly, forget about God and do your bit in the world to induce change....an uphill struggle at times but the more people who see things from this perspective, the better the world will become. You can only do stuff at a parochial level right now but the movement spreads.

There'll always be a fight though, as long as you have politicians, big businesses and orthodox religions.


and now I live a peaceful life where I have everything I want and need. So, God, has been there for me and I am grateful.

Again, forgive me if it seems like I am being religious and not spiritual. It could be I have done this things called life so many times I know how to weather it. That sounds spiritual to me. It could be the emergence of the god that is in you. It could be Her or Him who is guiding you.

The idea I struggle with, "Loving others is not trying to save the world or them, it is accepting their choices and decisions they make even if they are harmful and still loving them."But why struggle? I wasn't quite sure what you meant though. your opening line doesn't tally with "and still loving them" to me but I think I get it. I'm not ready to love people who bring harm. I'll let them be and hope a lesson comes their way to show them differently.

...

[AnotherBob]

The point I am trying to come to terms with now is a thought I had. . ."

What if you could just see it as that, and nothing more than that? In fact, most of us invest a tremendous amount of energy, attention, and identity into thoughts, even to the point of imagining that they are "ours", that they represent "our self", and that we are required to pursue whatever mental fabrication happens to pass between our ears.

On the other hand, if you could step back for a moment and just observe the thought arise, and then dissolve, without clinging to it or having to "do something" with it, then a lot of the stress we accumulate would blow off.
The sky doesn't care what clouds pass through it. They come and go, but the sky remains the sky. Be the sky, not the cloud.

[Mr Interesting]

Is it really, really grounded?

Seems like a bit of a head job to me.

I've found out my own head isn't such a sharp tool, it kinda keeps me occupied here and there basically because I'm still quite the lazy so and so, but, you know, stupid is as stupid does.

I've been a homebody for quite a while now and I think I decided to work really hard for a bit 'cause those around me had got to complaining how painful it all was, and I didn't feel that at all, but I did kinda get this idea that if, at my age now, I didn't get my fitness back then I'd end up just like them... so I've been working like a dog, woof, woof, and after a month or two, maybe longer as I'm quite forgetful too around this time thing, it's kinda getting a bit boring to just keep moving.

Then last night I fell outta bed. And I really did fall.

It's the very beginning of winter and I hoped into bed and snuggled down into all the glorious yet to be warm blankets then grabbed my book, a new one just started, and threw it in front of me but it fell down the space that runs along the front of my sleeping platform... so I had to get up and retrieve it... arrgh! and I went too fast and ended up plummeting towards the floor headfirst and about five feet below... what?

Time slowed a little and surprise found me, my head that is, but I was lucky in that it was a kind of half crouch with my head forward, I think 'cause it all happened so fast, but my feet somehow slowed me by hitting the chair, a rocker, which I climb on to get up there, then my hands hit the floor and there was enough slowing that my head just touched the floor... and I laughed my head off!

So all the hard work has paid off.

I ended up grazing the first knuckle of my right hand on the carpet typically called a carpet burn so there's even a bit of irony going on.

[wstein]

Its fine to change yourself, to try to change YOUR world, to inform others of opportunities to change their world.

Its not your place to change anyone else. Its also not respecting them to 'help' them for their own good especially if they don't want it (children a possible exception).

If you want something done that involves others, you can appeal to them AS THEY ARE. Usually to be successful in an appeal, you have to tell them in a way they can grasp and in a way that makes it a 'good idea' for them. Sometimes what you envision is beyond their ability to grasp, that's your issue not theirs. Also if they don't wish to live in the world you have envisioned, then you need to accept that.

The really annoying part about all this is most people are severely limited in what they can actually do. Their lives are already full of daily needs. Even if they might agree with you and want to help, often their plate is already more than full.