The Gorilla Shoot out case

[muzamilsa]

Hi All,

If you read the news about Gorilla shot dead by the zoo authorities, to protect a child from getting mauled by a gorilla. When I read it I felt very sad about it.

Some people said it was wrong and some said there was no option, few even said that mother of the child should be blamed for this incident.

What are you thoughts upon this ?

I think this might be gorilla, who was calling for this consciously or sub conciously, he may not be happy living a jailed life.

He may not happy of fulfilled with his present life in the zoo..

How do you take this, share your thoughts.

[froebellian]

I read this and other comments, and how on earth can you say the gorilla can be blamed? He was born in captivity and didn't know anything else, which is still sad.

One must look at the facts; the negligent parties are the parents and the zoo,

First the child wandered off and they never noticed, managed to crawl under a fence and then climb, and then fell. While some 4 year olds have sense, some don't, but obviously as other people weren't doing that, he decided to. The parents could have had him on a leash.

Second, the zoo security must be lapse for a child to climb under a fence. They bear some responsibility too.

There was no evidence the gorilla was going to attack, but rather than use a tranquilizer thy chose to shoot it dead, because they didn't know how long it would take to work. Sad excuse for a zoo if they don't know that either.

Either way the gorilla is the victim, and those parents should be named and shamed for negligence. The child apparently had minor injuries caused by the fall only.

[muzamilsa]

I read this and other comments, and how on earth can you say the gorilla can be blamed? He was born in captivity and didn't know anything else, which is still sad.

One must look at the facts; the negligent parties are the parents and the zoo,

First the child wandered off and they never noticed, managed to crawl under a fence and then climb, and then fell. While some 4 year olds have sense, some don't, but obviously as other people weren't doing that, he decided to. The parents could have had him on a leash.

Second, the zoo security must be lapse for a child to climb under a fence. They bear some responsibility too.

There was no evidence the gorilla was going to attack, but rather than use a tranquilizer thy chose to shoot it dead, because they didn't know how long it would take to work. Sad excuse for a zoo if they don't know that either.

Either way the gorilla is the victim, and those parents should be named and shamed for negligence. The child apparently had minor injuries caused by the fall only.

Hi Froebellian,

I think I was unable to put my point correctly, what I am trying to say is, this was freak accident which occurred. My point is why did this occurred at all what things and incidents caused this thing to happen. There might be some force which caused this tragic thing.

It may be that gorilla was looking to get rid of the lyf due to his saturation of being jailed and he might had a glimpse that he is going to be so through the entire lyf.

what say ?

[Lorelyen]

It's the parents' fault. Anywhere outside other than a play area (and perhaps even then) you keep a 4 year old in line of sight.

It's a parent's duty.

...

[Native spirit]

This is a sad case but its the parents of the child that should be held responsible for this,why did they not keep an eye on the child i have heard that there is a petition asking for the parents to be charged over this.

Namaste

[froebellian]

Hi Froebellian,

I think I was unable to put my point correctly, what I am trying to say is, this was freak accident which occurred. My point is why did this occurred at all what things and incidents caused this thing to happen. There might be some force which caused this tragic thing.

It may be that gorilla was looking to get rid of the lyf due to his saturation of being jailed and he might had a glimpse that he is going to be so through the entire lyf.

what say ?

I saw what you meant, and no offense, but I see it more as a karmic lesson for the child and parents. Sadly, the gorilla is the one with the altruistic incarnation to allow the parents to learn responsibility, and how to cope with guilt and negligence, besides the public condemnation that will follow when their identities are revealed.

Hopefully they will feel , the fact that the child and parents have not been named may indicate there were issues surrounding the welfare of the child, as usually parents are keen to go on camera thanking the zoo for their action.

This made headlines because it is a rare gorilla, and people are questioning both the actions of the zoo and the parents, as apparently it took the child 10 minutes to climb and crawl.

The parents have been named as they took to social media. Michelle Gregg said ""My son is safe and was able to walk away with a concussion and a few scrapes... no broken bones or internal injuries." Many say the gorilla did not harm the boy but was trying to protect him.

I'm signing this petition: https://www.change.org/p/cincinnati-zoo-justice-for-harambe

[Mr Interesting]

No comment... too far away.

[knightofalbion]

As I understand it the child was not seriously hurt. Which suggests the 40 stone gorilla did not and never had any intention of harming the child.

A very sad case.

[running]

This is a sad case but its the parents of the child that should be held responsible for this,why did they not keep an eye on the child i have heard that there is a petition asking for the parents to be charged over this.

Namaste

Ok. But what kinda zoo is designed in a way that makes this incident even possible. And i have never met a parent that had complete control over a four year old at all times. This would be a good time to have that kinda control. But stuff happens in life imo. I think finger pointing the parent like that in the petition you brought up lacks a lot of compassion towards the complications and difficulties of parenting imo. Or understanding of life in that stuff happens.

Heck, when i was four my mom couldnt find me. I was in the back yard one moment. The next i was gone. She was absolutely terrified. Finaly found me some time later. Over six feet up in a tree. She is five foot nine and couldnt get me. My dad had to come home from work and climb up the tree to get me down. Hoping i dont fall down in the mean time.

Nobody knows how it happend. How i got up there. But it did. I would say i have a wonderful mom. And if somebody started some petition over me winding up in a tree they wouod have to have a lack of understanding imo

[running]

Hi All,

If you read the news about Gorilla shot dead by the zoo authorities, to protect a child from getting mauled by a gorilla. When I read it I felt very sad about it.

Some people said it was wrong and some said there was no option, few even said that mother of the child should be blamed for this incident.

What are you thoughts upon this ?

I think this might be gorilla, who was calling for this consciously or sub conciously, he may not be happy living a jailed life.

He may not happy of fulfilled with his present life in the zoo..

How do you take this, share your thoughts.

I dont agree with zoo's. To me it looks like a jail.

A gorilla could of accidently killed or intentionally killed that child in a brief moment. Anybody who thinks its worth the risk to see what happens to the child probably shouldn't be having children imo. Or hopefully they wind up thinking differently when its there oen child.

[Gracey]

The zoo should have a better design to prevent this from happening. It was not necessary to shoot the animal in order to save the child. If anything, they could of put the animal to sleep with a dart.

[running]

The zoo should have a better design to prevent this from happening. It was not necessary to shoot the animal in order to save the child. If anything, they could of put the animal to sleep with a dart.

And how long does it take waiting around for it to fall asleep? I have no idea? I hope instantly. One squeeze and the kid is dead.

[Gracey]

And how long does it take waiting around for it to fall asleep? I have no idea? I hope instantly. One squeeze and the kid is dead.

I dont know either. Maybe a dart is a bad idea. I tell ya what though, if my kid somehow ended up in there, I would be in right after him!

[running]

I dont know either. Maybe a dart is a bad idea. I tell ya what though, if my kid somehow ended up in there, I would be in right after him!

I believe it!!!

[running]

When ever i think of w gorilla it reminds me of Clint Eatwoods movies, any which way but lose, and any which way you can. "Left turn Clyde." I dont know if anybody remembers that part of one of the movies or had seen them. Geat movies imo! Havent seen them in a long time.

[running]

Probably not the ideal time and thread by any means to bring up that movie.

[Astro]

It's a shame that a captive gorilla had to be killed because they are an endangered species due to poaching!

I think the staff were right to take action because the poor gorilla was dragging that child around like a rag doll; we could easily have been reading about the death of the child by now. If only they had had the knowledge to deal with the situation less drastically.

[ocean breeze]

And i have never met a parent that had complete control over a four year old at all times. This would be a good time to have that kinda control. But stuff happens in life imo. I think finger pointing the parent like that in the petition you brought up lacks a lot of compassion towards the complications and difficulties of parenting imo. Or understanding of life in that stuff happens.



^^ This. Easy to point fingers without understanding the situation. Sometimes sh*t happens.

[knightofalbion]

Update:
The little boy has been released from hospital and has gone home. "Doing just fine" according to his parents.

[GlowWorm]

If you can't control your kids, don't become a parent. Someone said not everyone can control their 4 year old. My nephew is 6, has severe ADHD and is autist, and he's better behaved than a number of kids who make use of the playground nearby and they\re older.

but like ere the parents are just utterly useless.

Because read the articles it wasn't a sudden off chance that the kid ran away - witnesses HEARD the mother telling him no, no, no. So she knew he was up to something - she just didn't care.

And look what it got - one dead gorilla cause she was useless parent.

[froebellian]

The OP felt the gorilla had 'asked' for this to end his life, but I disagree. As I thought the mother has a history of her children being taken away from her by social services.

What is more disturbing she works in a pre-school as a teacher. It does appear social services are looking into the family again after his incident.

Maybe this is a lesson that the mother needed to learn, and clearly she wasn't if her children had been removed on more than one occasion.

[running]

If you can't control your kids, don't become a parent. Someone said not everyone can control their 4 year old. My nephew is 6, has severe ADHD and is autist, and he's better behaved than a number of kids who make use of the playground nearby and they\re older.

but like ere the parents are just utterly useless.

Because read the articles it wasn't a sudden off chance that the kid ran away - witnesses HEARD the mother telling him no, no, no. So she knew he was up to something - she just didn't care.

And look what it got - one dead gorilla cause she was useless parent.

Four year olds get out of hand all the time. Stuff absolutely happens. As i said earlier something like that happend to me. And many kids are more high strung than i was. My mother was one of the best imo. I wouldn't be so quick to judge. In any case has the mother not been through enough already? Before all the finger pointing began? Gee wiz.

[Shaunc]

I believe that the mother /parents are to blame. I've raised 4 kids and managed to keep them all out of wild animal cages at the zoo. Lucky that the child didn't fall into a lion or tiger cage as we may all be reading about a dead kid as well as a dead animal.

[Emmalevine]

Killing the gorilla was totally wrong. And what kind of parents let their child out of sight long enough for that to happen, particularly when surrounded by large and unpredicable animals? Not the gorilla's fault at all. He should have been tranquilised anyway. When I read about it I felt so angry and sad.

[ocean breeze]

I've raised kids and managed to keep them all out of wild animal cages at the zoo. .

So did 99.9% parents.....even horrible ones.

And what kind of parents let their child out of sight long enough for that to happen, particularly when surrounded by large and unpredicable animals?

Maybe the kid just ran off and the parents went looking for him.

[Emmalevine]

Maybe I'm old fashioned, but i think holding a child's hand is really important when in potentially dangerous places such as a zoo. It's also important to make clear to a child that they do not touch or go near the animal cages, never mind climb into them. Maybe I'm being judgemental as I know accidents can happen, but it could have been avoided in many different ways.

[MIND POWER]

Who ever invented Zoo's, well ultimately its their fault....haha!

I have never liked Zoo's, even when i visited them as a kid! My mum had to put me on reins after awhile also! so there was no way i could escape her.........

When other kids would look at me, point and laugh! i would just be like?

I will see you Nursery mate, when i am off these reins! and we can play this same game then...

But yes! i think this incident is the (Mothers Fault). Accidents do happen, but you would think within such a environment her maternal instincts would be intensified.

R.I.P to the gorilla.

[running]

What kinda kids the judges been around. Robots? Give me a friggin break.

Y'all dont think kids get amped up and sxcited at zoo's? How many kids get lost st disneyland? It happens. Im having a hard time believing there arent some kid robots around. People are consfusing as real four year old kids.

Or some pretty arrogant people. Probably rather seen the kid killed over the gorilla. Maybe thats where a lot of the hate is coming from. A petition? who makes a zoo where kids can get into the cages?

Man would i love to meet whom ever started the petition face to face. Have you ever met a real four year old? i would ask.

[Baile]

An incident occurred, an action happened as a result, and people reacted.

Look inside and examine the truth of your reaction.

That's what this is about. And that's what all occurrences on the material plane are about.

[running]

So did 99.9% parents.....even horrible ones.



Maybe the kid just ran off and the parents went looking for him.

Somebody who speaking in reality about kids. One second and they can gone. They are fazter than a speeding bullets. Super man isnt az fast as a typical four year old.

Unless the kid from mars he is probably that fast.

[Baile]

Let's make the parents responsible.
Let's make the kid responsible.
Or the gorilla.
Or the zoo.
Or the fence.
Or... wait a minute, is this a list listing who and what is responsible, or just how my mind works?

[running]

Murphys law.

[Baile]

Blame game brain drain.

[Baile]

BTW, did anyone grok the thread title sounds like a heist movie or cop show, only with gorillas? Or is that too soon?

[naturesflow]

Hi All,

If you read the news about Gorilla shot dead by the zoo authorities, to protect a child from getting mauled by a gorilla. When I read it I felt very sad about it.

Some people said it was wrong and some said there was no option, few even said that mother of the child should be blamed for this incident.

What are you thoughts upon this ?

I think this might be gorilla, who was calling for this consciously or sub conciously, he may not be happy living a jailed life.

He may not happy of fulfilled with his present life in the zoo..

How do you take this, share your thoughts.


It is what it is.

We keep animals locked up, we let children roam, we all make mistakes, we save some lives, we disregard others. In this instance a child's life was saved and an animal was shot.

Humans do what humans do.

Animals do what animals do.

Blame doesn't resolve anything.

Awareness of all life is all that matters in everyway life requires to be taken care of.

[naturesflow]

BTW, did anyone grok the thread title sounds like a heist movie or cop show, only with gorillas? Or is that too soon?


Why would one in this case.

You may find humour in it in your too soon question.

[running]

Like a rag doll. Thats what the kid looks like being pulled around through the water by his foot in the video. Whats strange is i happen to be in ohio right now.. Odds 50 to 1. Lol. Probably less since i hadnt been in ohio in at least a couple years as a truck driver

[Mr Interesting]

Again, I wasn't in the vicinity so I couldn't feel what was happening. It is just pictures on the telly and so all I can bring to it is opinions as that threshold of feeling wasn't passed, as it were, which might have given words some relevance outside of myself.

I did see ages ago, while on a walk about where I live, two young dogs attacking an older one and there were adults and a child or two milling about being very, very emotional but I felt there was more going on so I went quiet and the knowing of it came to me.

Not a complete knowing but enough that I let it go and walk on. The old dog was sick and ready to go but the humans were holding on and so these young dogs were killing it as quickly as possible and they were going straight for it's genitals... the two together swooping in and the old dog wasn't protecting them.

If I were to add my ideas to the fray it would be that recently I have seen a few videos here and there of the calming connections between wildlife and children and these are very easy and simple to assimilate as trust but this video maybe asks us to widen that trust as the two participants speak of old wisdom and childish curiosity speaking possibly about trust between the human life and wildlife except it has just been pictures and so without a connection of feeling I can only speculate.

[naturesflow]

Again, I wasn't in the vicinity so I couldn't feel what was happening. It is just pictures on the telly and so all I can bring to it is opinions as that threshold of feeling wasn't passed, as it were, which might have given words some relevance outside of myself.

Media up close and personal moments, tend to awaken closer up close and personal reactions. Its the way of the world now. Every creation of the world coming in closer to us to open up how we feel about life in everyway life is now in us closer.

I did see ages ago, while on a walk about where I live, two young dogs attacking an older one and there were adults and a child or two milling about being very, very emotional but I felt there was more going on so I went quiet and the knowing of it came to me.

Not a complete knowing but enough that I let it go and walk on. The old dog was sick and ready to go but the humans were holding on and so these young dogs were killing it as quickly as possible and they were going straight for it's genitals... the two together swooping in and the old dog wasn't protecting them.

Animals can teach us a great deal about the unfolding of life in its complex and interconnected relationships that we as part of nature can learn a great deal from. Sadly some humans, don't know the reasons why nature does what nature does, because they let their human ideas inflict upon what is often a natural process of life and death, meeting itself. Everything is a part of that process, no one is immune. Animals have their ways, humans have their ways, but those ways are many and varied and sometimes we see the way as being ok and other times we see the way as not ok. We live and learn ...ongoing.

If I were to add my ideas to the fray it would be that recently I have seen a few videos here and there of the calming connections between wildlife and children and these are very easy and simple to assimilate as trust but this video maybe asks us to widen that trust as the two participants speak of old wisdom and childish curiosity speaking possibly about trust between the human life and wildlife except it has just been pictures and so without a connection of feeling I can only speculate.

[Mystic Mark]

I'm a vegetarian, and I do care about animals. I feel bad for the gorilla, but in this particular situation, there was only one choice ... Shoot to Kill!

This was a male Silverback. They can crush a coconut with one hand. He could have slammed that kid into the rocks like a rag doll! So you can't waste.time tranquilizing it. You have to kill it as quickly as possible. I certainly don't applaud the Zoos decision, but I support it.

[Nature Grows]

Yea i saw this, the Gorilla dragged the child really fast through the water. It was sad but he didn't die he just left the zoo, there a awesome animal.

https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/736x/be/23/2b/be232b4c22af40dcae778002d4f85851.jpg

[innerlight]

Shoot out? The Gorilla fired back? Oh snap! I did not see THAT video...

As i've said before with these things. It's all about establishing dominance. We as humans must establish our dominance over the animal kingdom. Point blank. We can not accept or show that they are stronger or more powerful then us. We must show we are the dominant species. We kill animals when they behave like how they are, animals, yet we turn a blind eye when fellow humans behave like animals.

[knightofalbion]

The child left hospital that night. The gorilla didn't hurt him at all.

It was the hysteria of the humans on the embankment that escalated the tension to the point the keepers felt they had to shoot the gorilla.

[running]

The child left hospital that night. The gorilla didn't hurt him at all.

It was the hysteria of the humans on the embankment that escalated the tension to the point the keepers felt they had to shoot the gorilla.

I think the gorilla had good intentions. I think your also right that he was confused by how the people were reacting.

And you probably watched the video and know this. But the fact is for ten minutes the kid was drug around by his foot like a rag doll. It is what it is.

If it was up to me i wouldnt of taken so long to make a decision. 40Lb kid, 450lb gorilla. Dragging kid by foot through the water. Shoot to kill. End of story. Wouldnt take me ten minutes of watching a kid get drug around like that.

Any other thoughts or decision about it is simply not valueing the 4 year old kids life. Which doesnt suprise me how some people are. They should just admit what they value more. The gorilla. Over the kid.

[running]

So i was just reading the comments to the video on this. I would love to follow all the judges around with a camera and see if there is ever a two second or so span they lost sight of there kids. Then they can hop into the gorilla cage and see how easy it is to take there kid back from a 450lb gorilla. The hand strength of a gorilla can crush a head i bet. They are more thsn just being 450lbs. They are a gorilla!

Stupid arrogant people imo. Its one thing if you dont know. But these idiots just watched the fim.

[knightofalbion]

I think the gorilla had good intentions. I think your also right that he was confused by how the people were reacting.

And you probably watched the video and know this. But the fact is for ten minutes the kid was drug around by his foot like a rag doll. It is what it is.

If it was up to me i wouldnt of taken so long to make a decision. 40Lb kid, 450lb gorilla. Dragging kid by foot through the water. Shoot to kill. End of story. Wouldnt take me ten minutes of watching a kid get drug around like that.

Any other thoughts or decision about it is simply not valueing the 4 year old kids life. Which doesnt suprise me how some people are. They should just admit what they value more. The gorilla. Over the kid.

A baby gorilla is a lot more robust than a baby human, and receives more robust handling, which is natural behaviour to them. The male gorilla could have no conception of how to handle a human baby/child. The fact is though the child left hospital that night, media claims about 'violent attack' being untrue. The child was unharmed.

[running]

A baby gorilla is a lot more robust than a baby human, and receives more robust handling, which is natural behaviour to them. The male gorilla could have no conception of how to handle a human baby/child. The fact is though the child left hospital that night, media claims about 'violent attack' being untrue. The child was unharmed.

I agree. Absolutrly not a violent attack. I actually think the gorilla meant well. Thats my feeling. The media will spin anything for ratings.

But the kid was lucky cause your right about the toughness of baby gorillas. It wasnt going to tske anything intentional to hurt a wimpy human. Being drug around like that will do it with one rock to the head or just about any kinda thing. He was lucky imo.

[Amilius777]

We don't know the whole story.
Things Everyone Keeps Forgetting-

The mother had OTHER children with her. She wasn't looking for less than a minute.

The child wasn't 4, he is 3.

The Gorilla was dragging the child like a rag doll (intent couldn't be determined nor trusted)

Gorilla can smash a coconut very easily

There was an incident of a woman raising a chimp. One day the chimp turned on her and ripped her face off despite their friendship

Tranquilizers may not have been quick enough to stop an animal of 500 lbs especially Apes and gorillas

The gorilla wasn't complying with the zookeepers and his trainers.

There was ANOTHER gorilla in their midst

Whether or not a parent was at fault a parent worries about one thing when she or he has their child with them- a predator or physically getting hurt. The parent shouldn't have to worry that their child can get into a Crocodile play pin. You see what I mean? Why was the Zoo security so poor?

We can't have an imbalanced reaction to these situations. We are not PERSONALLY in them. We don't know the many things running through everyone's minds and what it was like to actually be there. All we can say is "Well a toddler's life was in danger with a really strong powerful animal and we can't take a chance." I find all the attacks on the mother to be despicable. We've become a society where we need to blame someone.

It's so much easier to feel pity for an animal when these things occurred but you rarely see humans showing other humans compassion. The latter is becoming a dying art among media outlets.

This is a tragic and sad story for the gorilla especially since they are endangered but if the Zoo feels they did the right thing then they did the right thing. I don't think having rallies and protests and demanding a mother who almost lost her child to a wild animal to pay heafty prices. Besides what will that do? What does MONEY mean to everybody? Why is this generation obsessed with suing, retribution, revenge, and attacking? Hamabre was a Soul living life as a Gorilla. He has an easier time crossing over onto the Other Side where he is no longer a caged animal. His spirit was OVER IT way before anything in the media popped up. He is among angelic beings and heavenly spirits and with other Spirits of his soul-family.

What would everyone wish to see otherwise? A toddler's head smushed like a tomato? Would there be just as big of an outcry from Animal Rescue groups? Probably not. And don't get started on PETA and a lot of those groups. Many of these so -called humane animal societies kill just as many animals in their shelters and complexes with even more inhumane environments than shelters do. Why is that? Because Self-righteousness seems to be a heavy drug and addiction among human beings.

[running]

We don't know the whole story.
Things Everyone Keeps Forgetting-

The mother had OTHER children with her. She wasn't looking for less than a minute.

The child wasn't 4, he is 3.

The Gorilla was dragging the child like a rag doll (intent couldn't be determined nor trusted)

Gorilla can smash a coconut very easily

There was an incident of a woman raising a chimp. One day the chimp turned on her and ripped her face off despite their friendship

Tranquilizers may not have been quick enough to stop an animal of 500 lbs especially Apes and gorillas

The gorilla wasn't complying with the zookeepers and his trainers.

There was ANOTHER gorilla in their midst

Whether or not a parent was at fault a parent worries about one thing when she or he has their child with them- a predator or physically getting hurt. The parent shouldn't have to worry that their child can get into a Crocodile play pin. You see what I mean? Why was the Zoo security so poor?

We can't have an imbalanced reaction to these situations. We are not PERSONALLY in them. We don't know the many things running through everyone's minds and what it was like to actually be there. All we can say is "Well a toddler's life was in danger with a really strong powerful animal and we can't take a chance." I find all the attacks on the mother to be despicable. We've become a society where we need to blame someone.

It's so much easier to feel pity for an animal when these things occurred but you rarely see humans showing other humans compassion. The latter is becoming a dying art among media outlets.

This is a tragic and sad story for the gorilla especially since they are endangered but if the Zoo feels they did the right thing then they did the right thing. I don't think having rallies and protests and demanding a mother who almost lost her child to a wild animal to pay heafty prices. Besides what will that do? What does MONEY mean to everybody? Why is this generation obsessed with suing, retribution, revenge, and attacking? Hamabre was a Soul living life as a Gorilla. He has an easier time crossing over onto the Other Side where he is no longer a caged animal. His spirit was OVER IT way before anything in the media popped up. He is among angelic beings and heavenly spirits and with other Spirits of his soul-family.

What would everyone wish to see otherwise? A toddler's head smushed like a tomato? Would there be just as big of an outcry from Animal Rescue groups? Probably not. And don't get started on PETA and a lot of those groups. Many of these so -called humane animal societies kill just as many animals in their shelters and complexes with even more inhumane environments than shelters do. Why is that? Because Self-righteousness seems to be a heavy drug and addiction among human beings.

Was wondering if there was any common sense left on the planet. I guess so.

[knightofalbion]

No animal belongs in a zoo ...

Animals are another aspect of the Divine Spirit and we, as humanity, should be ashamed if we do not recognise that.

[Jatd]

Personally, I've chosen empathy over opinion.

I could say a lot about my opinion on what happened but what good would it do now?

So, I've chosen empathy from all angles. :hug2:

[knightofalbion]

Then you've chosen well and wisely .....

[RedEmbers]

I find the parental blame distressing. There is so much pressure on modern parents to be perfect and they (we) have also lost alot of the support systems that used to be available through the extended family and community network.
Blame I believe in this situation over rides our natural tendancy towards community and our instinct to help each other out. Parents need more support and less blame, we have enough of that piled on us already.

[GlowWorm]

I find the parental blame distressing. There is so much pressure on modern parents to be perfect and they (we) have also lost alot of the support systems that used to be available through the extended family and community network.
Blame I believe in this situation over rides our natural tendancy towards community and our instinct to help each other out. Parents need more support and less blame, we have enough of that piled on us already.

The child told his "mother", if you stretch the dub mother far enough to include such a negligent female, that he desired to enter the pen multiple times. Almost every witness recounts how she told him no, no, no despite how he was quite excited about it.

A witness even tried to grasp the little child before he slipped through, doing far more than his "mother" did who turned her back to attend to her other children running wild no doubt.


As for community support. My grandmother raised 8 children by herself, worked 2 jobs and still went to night school. My mother, her sisters & two brothers would never have even considered acting like this child. She never once laid a hand on them, nor raised her voice, but she had rules and she expected them to be obeyed.

If you can't lay down ground rules to a 4 year old, imagine what a "lovely" child he'd be by 20.

[RedEmbers]

Some people need more support than others and we as a society should be supporting their needs.
When my sibling was a toddler she got severely burnt by accident... this was before running hot water... when you had to boil water in a saucepan. It was an accident but my poor mother blamed herself for many, many year... it affected everyone in my family.
My mother was also isolated raising me and my siblings isolated... she could have used more support.
I had my own daughter when I was a late teenager and no body supported me when I became isolated and didn't know how to feed my baby properly, I had never even held a baby before her...the midwives BLAMED me for not producing enough milk when I was clearly not coping because I had no support...
So I stand by my opinion that blame helps no one... in fact it isolates us even more.
Anyway... its all a bit beside the point here...
Its a sad case but... stuff happens in life. If anything... zoo's around the world will have a look at safety and make the neccasary adjustments where needed.

[running]

The child told his "mother", if you stretch the dub mother far enough to include such a negligent female, that he desired to enter the pen multiple times. Almost every witness recounts how she told him no, no, no despite how he was quite excited about it.

A witness even tried to grasp the little child before he slipped through, doing far more than his "mother" did who turned her back to attend to her other children running wild no doubt.


As for community support. My grandmother raised 8 children by herself, worked 2 jobs and still went to night school. My mother, her sisters & two brothers would never have even considered acting like this child. She never once laid a hand on them, nor raised her voice, but she had rules and she expected them to be obeyed.

If you can't lay down ground rules to a 4 year old, imagine what a "lovely" child he'd be by 20.

I think your missing the point. It doesnt take a misfit three or four year old to make one mistake. Or a misfit mother to lose an eye of a kid for five seconds. It is going to happen some time or another. Nobody goes through life without moments of something.

Nor would it cross the mind of most people kids can get into animal cagee at zoos. Especially a three or four year old. Its totally unheard of. Probably never happend before in the states from a four year old.

Four year olds are four year olds. Boot camp doesnt start for most people tell there eighteen. Not that there isnt something to be said about discipline. Its just not what four year olds are all about. And that doesn't make them bad children. Or bad adults later on. It just makes them normal.

[running]

No animal belongs in a zoo ...

Animals are another aspect of the Divine Spirit and we, as humanity, should be ashamed if we do not recognise that.

No they do not imo. And if they ever were. Not that i think they were. Today we can see any animal we want to on the internet with one click of the button.

[ocean breeze]

I feel bad for the Mom. She has to take all this criticism and from what i've heard even death threats. I also hate when people say things like: "Well my mom took me to the zoo plenty of times and this never happened," or something along those lines. Its a stup*d argument. Every child is different, every parent is different as they were raised differently, you can't compare. I do agree with RedEmbers. In this situation support is needed not blame.

[Amilius777]

I'm quite happy most people are empathetic towards the mother on here.

I was worried I would be the only one defending her. My god when I think of all the stuff my mother and many mothers go through it seems like one mistake and you are demonized.

The parents aren't responsible for what the Zoo did and I think the Zoo made the right decision and honestly this is coming from someone who is a huge animal lover.

I believe all creatures and living things are Souls but we have to remember that there is a hierarchy to soul evolution and certain "bodies" house higher aspects of Divine Consciousness. The human has the ability to raise his consciousness above the everyday physical into the superhuman. Animals rely on us to help them to evolve unless the animal is a Pet (sometimes they were humans before and come back).

I remember the yogi Master Yogananda was asked about this. He killed a mosquito and felt bad about it. I've felt bad about killing even ants so I was happy to hear this conversation. His guru said to him that there has to be an intention of "no harm" even in War if necessary. It is about nonviolence which starts in the heart, but if it is between a Human and an animal the human life is more precious on the evolutionary scale. The souls of animals cross over easier, evolve in Groups, are more psychically attuned than us, have a higher tolerance towards pain, and are more accepting of death. In some ways they have it better and easier than us so don't always feel bad for animals and forget to be compassionate towards the human..

It's easier to be compassionate towards a kitten than it is for the crazy angry sad man living down the street. The latter is a harder test to swallow.

[running]

I feel bad for the Mom. She has to take all this criticism and from what i've heard even death threats. I also hate when people say things like: "Well my mom took me to the zoo plenty of times and this never happened," or something along those lines. Its a stup*d argument. Every child is different, every parent is different as they were raised differently, you can't compare. I do agree with RedEmbers. In this situation support is needed not blame.

This is teaching me just how incompassionate and arrogant many people are. Im absolutely disgusted by it.

I hate seeing what happend just like the haters. But doesn't mean i got to go hate on a mom whom just about lost her four year old.

[naturesflow]

Personally, I've chosen empathy over opinion.

I could say a lot about my opinion on what happened but what good would it do now?

So, I've chosen empathy from all angles. :hug2:

Lovely. Empathy from all angles doesn't require an opinion about one or the other, but more awareness of the whole picture inclusive, even when one doesn't know...