Role of thought

[Floatsy]

I posted this elsewhere as well but am opening it up to the floor :smile:

Question:

- What is the role of thought in reflection, character, attitudes in your spiritual practice (i.e. life)

Where thought is mellowed, or lessened, or much quieter/seems to abate quickly, unified etc. Whatever it is!

Then what role does thought play?

Can you examine your own attitudes, belief systems etc without thought? Do you need to employ thought to choose specific paths (e.g. in my case, job stuff)

Is it necessary to bring them up since even if you are not actively thinking, the latent attitudes etc are clearly what the old navigation tools are still reading and operating on.

I'm not sure if this thread makes sense, but just throwing this out there whilst I try to work it out for myself :tongue:

Thanks guys and gals.

:wink:

[firstandlast]

To me, thought's or at least conscious thoughts are the conclusions of subconscious aspects of my mind-- That is, one is not necessarily aware of the process behind their thoughts, but none the less may identify with them and act upon them--

So, for me, the importance of meditation in relation to thoughts; is allow you to transcend the dualistic process that creates a limited expression of the limitless expression; but that is only the beginning... After you have tapped into this "base material" you can begin working on a philosophers stone-- Which, has many components, but to keep it simple.. The essential idea is to reconcile opposites (to see opposite aspects as the same thing Big as small, light as dark, the extremes of any two opposing sides as the exact same)--

By doing this, you create a mental model that supports all aspects of your self (as the whole is made of many selves, every angle is a unique expression of the self), allowing one to integrate their many angles of self into a coherent whole-- That is, once you have reconciled the opposites, you free up your essential self, or essence, or soul; to choose the route that best expresses itself, to organize things in a manner that aligns all aspects in a way that best expresses the whole self that is being expressed--

That is, your unconscious mental maps are just as important as the thoughts that arise from them into your conscious awareness--

But it goes further than that.. You are an individual within a greater thing, so you are not limited to altering the expressions that are "within" yourself-- you can reconcile the opposites that conclude your own existence (that is, ascension, to merge with the higher beings that flow through you)-- And though there is some reason in certain circumstances to desire this (that is as you reconcile opposites to incarnate your soul expression your role in the universe becomes quite clear, and a very part of yourself) there are other reasons such an idea is important--

Because these mental maps, are the reason you conclude a certain color spectrum, that is, you can easily imagine the color blue in your mind.. this is an easy conclusion to come to, but if you rework your subtle bodies of that which your conscious mind navigates, you can conclude colors that until you conclude their existence, did not exist in your experience-- This is important on one level, because it shows the limitations of critical thinking (that is, concluding based on only the given information) and discernment (conclusions based on the information available)--

And this goes further, because you can reconcile the opposites that create your individual identity, because you can conclude new colors into existence; then this means the conclusions you can come to are not only in your mind, but also all of your experience.. this translates into hyper-dimensional travel, through a trans-personal self, you can come to the conclusion that you are on another planet or that some heavy object needed to be put into a truck is already on the truck--

But this is akin to the idea of positive thinking; you cannot just force the conclusion on a superficial level.. You cannot think happy thoughts to be happy, if you are denying the source of your unhappy thoughts... you cannot think "I am a beautiful person" and maintain the conclusion if in the back of your mind you have not rewired yourself for that-- (Ehhh, there can be some backwards engineering so to speak, this isn't absolute, there are other angles of approach to work with the unconscious mind)--

But essentially, you cannot just try and say this is this, and expect reality to match, there must be a sincerity to this expression to bring great alignment into manifestation--

----------

Anyways that is basically where I am at; and of course there is alot more to this, especially since I left out "the other"--

[Floatsy]

Thanks, firstandlast, I really like that. I will return to converse with you more on it later. Thanks man. :iroc:

[Mr Interesting]

It becomes a tool, only needed when you need it. The old way is you are the tool and it uses you.

And as a tool you learn to look after it, maintain it and store it away safe... then when it's needed it works really well.

The world opens up too as in so much becomes obvious that thinking isn't even required...

[Floatsy]

It becomes a tool, only needed when you need it. The old way is you are the tool and it uses you.

And as a tool you learn to look after it, maintain it and store it away safe... then when it's needed it works really well.

The world opens up too as in so much becomes obvious that thinking isn't even required...

Yes, thank you Mr Interesting.

But this is where I get stuck - I may not (think) I am actively thinking. In fact, sometimes (often if I want) the One Thought (presumably it is the One Thought) is unified.

That said, when it comes to me making decisions, e.g. what do I do to get food on my table - it's pretty much the same thought process that comes into play i.e. once activated.

So I suspect I need to bring this old web up to the fore to examine it a little more.

Anyway I'm sure I am missing something. I will explore it a little more.

[Floatsy]

To me, thought's or at least conscious thoughts are the conclusions of subconscious aspects of my mind-- That is, one is not necessarily aware of the process behind their thoughts, but none the less may identify with them and act upon them--

Yes, there must be some underlying structure here at work.

So, for me, the importance of meditation in relation to thoughts; is allow you to transcend the dualistic process that creates a limited expression of the limitless expression; but that is only the beginning... After you have tapped into this "base material" you can begin working on a philosophers stone--

I love it! Philosopher's stone - haha nice one thanks

Which, has many components, but to keep it simple.. The essential idea is to reconcile opposites (to see opposite aspects as the same thing Big as small, light as dark, the extremes of any two opposing sides as the exact same)--

OK

By doing this, you create a mental model that supports all aspects of your self (as the whole is made of many selves, every angle is a unique expression of the self), allowing one to integrate their many angles of self into a coherent whole--

OK

That is, once you have reconciled the opposites, you free up your essential self, or essence, or soul; to choose the route that best expresses itself, to organize things in a manner that aligns all aspects in a way that best expresses the whole self that is being expressed--

Interesting idea..I like it though.

That is, your unconscious mental maps are just as important as the thoughts that arise from them into your conscious awareness--

I agree - this is what I was sensing a little tonight, there must be (in my estimation only) some type of underlying matrix that is here

But it goes further than that.. You are an individual within a greater thing, so you are not limited to altering the expressions that are "within" yourself-- you can reconcile the opposites that conclude your own existence (that is, ascension, to merge with the higher beings that flow through you)-- And though there is some reason in certain circumstances to desire this (that is as you reconcile opposites to incarnate your soul expression your role in the universe becomes quite clear, and a very part of yourself) there are other reasons such an idea is important--

Because these mental maps, are the reason you conclude a certain color spectrum, that is, you can easily imagine the color blue in your mind.. this is an easy conclusion to come to, but if you rework your subtle bodies of that which your conscious mind navigates, you can conclude colors that until you conclude their existence, did not exist in your experience-- This is important on one level, because it shows the limitations of critical thinking (that is, concluding based on only the given information) and discernment (conclusions based on the information available)--

I like that idea...hm wow. I wonder how that works, I will try to see. Is this similar to the realm of creativity and imagination, you reckon, firstandlast?

Or maybe elaborate a tad more please? :)

And this goes further, because you can reconcile the opposites that create your individual identity, because you can conclude new colors into existence; then this means the conclusions you can come to are not only in your mind, but also all of your experience.. this translates into hyper-dimensional travel, through a trans-personal self, you can come to the conclusion that you are on another planet or that some heavy object needed to be put into a truck is already on the truck--

OK

But this is akin to the idea of positive thinking; you cannot just force the conclusion on a superficial level.. You cannot think happy thoughts to be happy, if you are denying the source of your unhappy thoughts... you cannot think "I am a beautiful person" and maintain the conclusion if in the back of your mind you have not rewired yourself for that-- (Ehhh, there can be some backwards engineering so to speak, this isn't absolute, there are other angles of approach to work with the unconscious mind)--

I'm always interested in new ways of looking at things and working with the unconscious mind. I would have thought that the first step is somehow bringing it up - but perhaps "it" is itself made up of underlying attitudes, beliefs, ideas and the like. i.e. from my very quick sensing, it may be some fabric of this matrix

I appreciate your clarification on "positive thinking".

But essentially, you cannot just try and say this is this, and expect reality to match, there must be a sincerity to this expression to bring great alignment into manifestation--

Makes a lot of sense.

----------

Anyways that is basically where I am at; and of course there is alot more to this, especially since I left out "the other"--

Tell me "the other" :rolleyes: :biggrin: :tongue:

Hey thanks for the banter, I'll see if I can find any other relevant material to bring here to our study group too. Yippee.

Ta.

[Miss Hepburn]

I don't know what thoughts are.
But, I know I can have the most wonderful of thoughts.
Thoughts that can be like stepping stones to take me
closer to the other place, the holy place...out of this dream.
Thoughts of the Divine's magnificence;
The thought that He is within one cell of one strand of my hair
and then is in each cell of every strand of everyone's hair
and that He is within everything that is red...that red would not exist
if not for Him, (Who has no gender),
This is the joy I have in thought.

To stay on topic...
What is thought?
What is it's role? I don't know...a tool?
Thought...sure, it is useful to help me figure out how to do something,
but that's secondary.
I'm most interested in having the reins in my hands to direct where
thought takes me...to the doorstep of the One that will
transport me way beyond 'here'.

[firstandlast]

I like that idea...hm wow. I wonder how that works, I will try to see. Is this similar to the realm of creativity and imagination, you reckon, firstandlast?

Or maybe elaborate a tad more please? :)



Tell me "the other" :rolleyes: :biggrin: :tongue:


Both of these are difficult areas to express; and I am just getting a bearing on these concepts-- But let us say, you have two eyes that come to an intersecting focal point.. These two eyes, see two dimensions; hight and width, but upon the intersecting focal point a third dimension becomes hinted at--

Now, imagine everything you do has at least two aspects to it; and the way these aspects are aligned, effects the place at where they intersect and a new aspect is born or experienced-- That is, the "invisible" things intersect and create "visible" things.. I mean this is not the only way things work... But essentially I am saying your essence, your thoughts, your physical body, and your physical environment are a product of this same idea-- It is just different levels of conclusions or intersecting spirit--

----------

The other-- The other is going to be one of the most complex subjects to discuss-- But let us say you reconciled yourself into one thing... or even that you were the one thing that everything is; the moment you split yourself into two, you become the experience of one of those two things; that is, you are still that one thing.. but suddenly, you are two things.. the one self you were, and now the one self you are working with an other self--

Let us imagine you were suddenly only dark and light; and this experience was something like lightning in the void-- One moment you are the light clashing upon the dark... you see the dark is the other, whom mirrors you in such a way that you can experience this intersection-- The next moment you have become the dark clashing against the light; that is, as light and dark you have only two options of experience, to experience being the light clashing upon the dark, or the dark clashing upon the light-- You can switch between these two rapidly and experience a cosmic dance with yourself.. however, something is always the other thing.. something is having the opposite or complimentary experience to your own; when you become dark it becomes light, when you become light it becomes dark... you experience it as being yourself, it experiences it as being itself, you are both the same thing yet not-- Suddenly if we look, we aren't two things we are four things.. two things rapidly switching between two things... but this is still all one thing?

This other, eventually becomes many things as you do-- That is, it shows up everywhere.. and as more and more of you occurs, more and more of this other shows up-- But one of these others, is the perfect compliment to you.. That is, this other becomes your subconscious, this other other becomes your twin flame.. this other other that isn't quite your perfect choice becomes a soul mate-- That is, there is something else that is this perfect complimentary reflection of yourself, because it is yourself.. but it does not have to be experienced that way--


As you can see, what I am saying occurs at every level of reality, and thus while a simple idea, is noooo simple topic--

---------
Was that useful? lol

[Baile]

Role of thought... For me it's more a question of the role I play in determining how my thoughts affect the world around me. If I am thinking negative or angry thoughts, it creates agitation around me. If I am thinking joyful and kind thoughts, it creates harmony around me. Consciousness growth is all about becoming aware of the effect of thoughts, and learning to control thoughts. Thought, like speech and the ability to act, are self-development teaching tools of the physical plane.

[naturesflow]

I posted this elsewhere as well but am opening it up to the floor :smile:

Question:

- What is the role of thought in reflection, character, attitudes in your spiritual practice (i.e. life)

Thought tells me I am thinking about something for some reason. If it goes it is not something I need to dwell on. If it lingers I listen and stay present with it to let it clear out.

Where thought is mellowed, or lessened, or much quieter/seems to abate quickly, unified etc. Whatever it is!



Then what role does thought play?

Clarity from stillness, where by response and action is clear and right. More aligned in balanced harmony with what is.

Can you examine your own attitudes, belief systems etc without thought? Do you need to employ thought to choose specific paths (e.g. in my case, job stuff)

Is it necessary to bring them up since even if you are not actively thinking, the latent attitudes etc are clearly what the old navigation tools are still reading and operating on.


How I speak and relate can inform me of old patterns, when I am not consciously thinking about things in thought. If your in tune with yourself through a variety of ways of listening you can notice your patterns arsing in a few ways. I am even conscious of my body language that will send signals of old conditioned responses even without thinking about them. Being more aware of your whole self you learn to listen to yourself complete. Everything can be a listening tool when your able to be consciously aware of all of yourself. I call this open to myself in everyway. I am not just in one mode of processing. I am in every mode at once aware most often to know this.

I'm not sure if this thread makes sense, but just throwing this out there whilst I try to work it out for myself :tongue:

Thanks guys and gals.

:wink:

Your thoughts are not clear to know as you show. But they are arsing to explore so you become clearer in you. This is what I call noticing thoughts that want to know more about themselves. *wink*

Pushing thoughts aside when your not clear to do so can be just shelving them because you are not willing to explore them to know what is attached to them. Or what they want you to listen to beyond them alone.

[Molearner]

The role of thought is to determine both our actions/reactions. More interesting to me is the nature or origin of thought. For those interested it can be informative to look at the progression from Descartes to Kant.

[Floatsy]

Was that useful? lol

Definitely interesting and thank you for taking the time to express it, firstandlast.

Have you seen this blog: bodhimindinstitute.blogspot.com. It talks about how "reality" comes into play, in a quite in-depth way. Perhaps you may find it of interest.

[Floatsy]

Thanks everyone.

[Floatsy]

Was that useful? lol

Yes. Thanks f.

[Mr Interesting]

Posting on the other thread by Peter of Denmark about money it occurred to me that money and thought are very similar; they are a means of exchange. In that regard most people think of money/thought first, as it were, that which all life must be squeezed through to enable life to be life.

This is very limiting in most cases and when it isn't limiting it's because something else on the edges is widening it out... so money/thought aren't, in a sense, anywhere near as important as that which can widen it, deepen it, and make it all more efficient and holistic... whole is tic... the whole makes it tick.

Find the whole and forget about what is thrown into it... the hole.

[Floatsy]

I was posting on that thread too, just now, Mr Interesting. Thanks for your comments herein, Mr I.

[jimrich]

I posted this elsewhere as well but am opening it up to the floor :smile:

Question:

- What is the role of thought in reflection, character, attitudes in your spiritual practice (i.e. life)
It's to help me get back to Source, which has never been lost anyway. The thought "I" is the stepping off point back to Source.

Where thought is mellowed, or lessened, or much quieter/seems to abate quickly, unified etc. Whatever it is!

Then what role does thought play?
If and when thought/thinking becomes still or dissolves, one might find them self in and AS the Source.

Can you examine your own attitudes, belief systems etc without thought? Do you need to employ thought to choose specific paths (e.g. in my case, job stuff)
1)No and 2)yes - for me. How about you?

Is it necessary to bring them up since even if you are not actively thinking, the latent attitudes etc are clearly what the old navigation tools are still reading and operating on.

I'm not sure if this thread makes sense, but just throwing this out there whilst I try to work it out for myself :tongue:

Thanks guys and gals.

:wink:
IMO, everything in the cosmos is just a tool for Source to have, enjoy and BE the Play of Life and "thought" is the major tool for conducting Source's Play of Life but is also Source's best tool for leaving the Play of Life if and when it becomes unbearable.
The thought "Who/what am I" is the direct path for Source to remember It's Divine nature.
The joke is that Source is always Source no matter what imaginary Play or Game It creates for It's own amusement and we are That. :hug2:

[Floatsy]

Can you examine your own attitudes, belief systems etc without thought? Do you need to employ thought to choose specific paths (e.g. in my case, job stuff)

1)No and 2)yes - for me. How about you?


Thanks for asking. I'll experiment and revert :smile:

[Mr Interesting]

Attitudes, belief systems etc isn't so much they aren't examined but you tend to notice when it's not useful thought... so you stop. The examining is from the watching of thoughts and initially it's those round and round looping one which are nipped in the bud, and then when that becomes quite simple to notice, those thoughts and stopping them, then that noticing and examining from quiet tends to preclude a lot of other thought which within the widening quiet just isn't any use anymore... simply because intuition deepens and leads decisiveness.

This then is why specific paths aren't thought out. They just occur as the most obvious thing to do.

[Floatsy]

Thank you Mr Interesting :smile:

[Arcturus]

I was watching something last night on this (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rtvOxhKDUyI). Supposedly the only useful thought is for practical purposes...how to fix a car. Psychological thought is said to be pointless and even divisive...I am this I should be that. A separation between ideal and actuality. An actuality requires no thought process. An ideal is fictitious. We see ourselves only in the stillness of silence where thought has ended.

Intelligence can use thought when necessary but not vice versa.

[lemex]

Intelligence can use thought when necessary but not vice versa.

I noticed no one used the word memory but did use subconscious, example emotion. Intelligence uses memory, thought uses memory. Thought often have to be interrupted.

One may want to try writing before it gets lost or forgotten. Here's the thing about thought itself, it occurs many times faster as a physical process then the outlet of writing or speaking. You may repeat it 50 to 100 times (in the mind) before you get it out. :smile: I tend to think thought reinforces what we come to see without realizing it. It sort of becomes our truth.

Regarding thought what would a new be like, can anyone give an example of that.

[naturesflow]

I noticed no one used the word memory but did use subconscious, example emotion. Intelligence uses memory, thought uses memory. Thought often have to be interrupted.

One may want to try writing before it gets lost or forgotten. Here's the thing about thought itself, it occurs many times faster as a physical process then the outlet of writing or speaking. You may repeat it 50 to 100 times (in the mind) before you get it out. :smile: I tend to think thought reinforces what we come to see without realizing it. It sort of becomes our truth.


This is true, it often does go on repeat, until one stops or interrupts it in some way of moving it along or out. I can naturally shift thought out if it lingers now, more consciously aware of it. But writing it out if your not aware of yourself is a good idea. Seeing your truth on paper is sometimes more powerful than just retaining in your head. You actually start to witness yourself in another form that can also let feelings go with thoughts if necessary to do so. And your right it does become entangled as truth. Depending on whether you attached or aware it is a temporary idea getting your attention in some way to know more.

Regarding thought what would a new be like, can anyone give an example of that.

Do you mean a new train of thought? And what it can create in your body to build a new system of itself? I am thoughts seem to be very powerful in everyway, so if you mean retraining the body, any "I am" thought which opens up a new system of awareness and being can help change the way you think about yourself and life. I call this reprogramming where you have been programmed incorrectly. This builds new connections within the entire system/body/mind.

[karma-free-life]

Intelligence can use thought when necessary but not vice versa.
This is a wonderful way of expressing it!
I was going to resist sharing this link until I'd properly organised the rest of my site. However, a couple of the pieces I've uploaded in recent weeks, are just so relevant to this thread, that I'm going to trust that the other material on the site will have your forgiveness until such a time as I can re-jig it.
The first couple of paragraphs could be written a little more sharply, but it does get better from there on. It's where I'm coming from on all this.
I'm very much saying that every thought is conditioned, and originating from the current and past manipulated words of a thousand generations. Thoughts are manipulated by the mind (the I self-governing the I) and either buried if they are interpreted as an attack on the ego's self worth, or embraced, it it suits or pleasures the ego.

See what you think? :-)

Ah, can't share the link, you'll have to wait until I've made 15 posts! :-)

[karma-free-life]

Hang on, just had a post count! :-)

[karma-free-life]

Still won't let me!

[jonesboy]

I posted this elsewhere as well but am opening it up to the floor :smile:

Question:

- What is the role of thought in reflection, character, attitudes in your spiritual practice (i.e. life)

Where thought is mellowed, or lessened, or much quieter/seems to abate quickly, unified etc. Whatever it is!

Then what role does thought play?

Can you examine your own attitudes, belief systems etc without thought? Do you need to employ thought to choose specific paths (e.g. in my case, job stuff)

Is it necessary to bring them up since even if you are not actively thinking, the latent attitudes etc are clearly what the old navigation tools are still reading and operating on.

I'm not sure if this thread makes sense, but just throwing this out there whilst I try to work it out for myself :tongue:

Thanks guys and gals.

:wink:


Have you ever experienced the Witness in daily life?

The Witness is where one is separate from thoughts. You can kind of like see them just float on by without them attaching to you. Things that would normally cause you to be upset, or judgments of others are nothing just a thought like, "I like blue" no attachment to it.

It is Freeing.

It is at this stage one is aware that the mind always has thoughts, 5, 6, 7 thoughts going at any one time. The mind racing from one thought to the next and that you have been so caught up in them that you never noticed, until now.

Now when you are in such a state you begin to have an understanding of how your life changes. How does an argument change if someone is saying mean things to you but they don't hurt you. They have the same attachment of the thought of " Ritz Cracker or butter" for instance. :smile:

Your mind is free, filled with the bliss of non attachment.

Over time this gets deeper, one begins to not be separate (duality) from ones thoughts but to realize they are just energy. That merging of thoughts as silent energy is called Yab Yum in Buddhism. It is here that one experiences emptiness and is able to reside in Rigpa (non dual awareness). It is this residing in this state of being were one is able to let go of issues at a faster rate. To realize when a thought is hitting an obstruction, causing mind stories and is able to reside in the flow to help integrate the issues.

It is a truly beautiful process.

I hope this helps,

Tom

[firstandlast]

Have you ever experienced the Witness in daily life?

The Witness is where one is separate from thoughts. You can kind of like see them just float on by without them attaching to you. Things that would normally cause you to be upset, or judgments of others are nothing just a thought like, "I like blue" no attachment to it.

It is Freeing.

It is at this stage one is aware that the mind always has thoughts, 5, 6, 7 thoughts going at any one time. The mind racing from one thought to the next and that you have been so caught up in them that you never noticed, until now.

Now when you are in such a state you begin to have an understanding of how your life changes. How does an argument change if someone is saying mean things to you but they don't hurt you. They have the same attachment of the thought of " Ritz Cracker or butter" for instance. :smile:

Your mind is free, filled with the bliss of non attachment.

Over time this gets deeper, one begins to not be separate (duality) from ones thoughts but to realize they are just energy. That merging of thoughts as silent energy is called Yab Yum in Buddhism. It is here that one experiences emptiness and is able to reside in Rigpa (non dual awareness). It is this residing in this state of being were one is able to let go of issues at a faster rate. To realize when a thought is hitting an obstruction, causing mind stories and is able to reside in the flow to help integrate the issues.

It is a truly beautiful process.

I hope this helps,

Tom

I think this idea is worth approaching from another angle; or I mean simply side by side, not that this angle is the best angle to look at it from--

The access of the witness seems detached from thought for the same reason heaven and earth or spirit and material seem separate-- They really aren't; bit in the order of our individual self and the greater self we reside in, they appear so--

When one accesses the witness, they access the axis mundi-- https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Axis_mundi

When the axis mundi is accessed, it becomes like a magnet in which the "material" around it begins arranging itself in a certain order, this order is an alignment between spirit and material-- You begin to create a structure within the unconscious mind that allows the conscious mind to follow its unique path within it; that is, we all have a unique arrangement from accessing this witness, we all have a unique pattern of existence, and thus the way such growth transpires is unique to the individual, however it is the same underlying principles that can create infinite variations that are capable of fitting in harmony with the whole--

Thus, one experiences a death of the old self (old identity) and a resurrection of the new self (new identity); which is ultimately just a transmutation of one order of identity to another order of identity-- And this allows one to see the subtle layers of effect at each degree of separation (energy)--

[Floatsy]

Thanks everyone.

[Floatsy]

I think this idea is worth approaching from another angle; or I mean simply side by side, not that this angle is the best angle to look at it from--

The access of the witness seems detached from thought for the same reason heaven and earth or spirit and material seem separate-- They really aren't; bit in the order of our individual self and the greater self we reside in, they appear so--

When one accesses the witness, they access the axis mundi-- https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Axis_mundi

When the axis mundi is accessed, it becomes like a magnet in which the "material" around it begins arranging itself in a certain order, this order is an alignment between spirit and material-- You begin to create a structure within the unconscious mind that allows the conscious mind to follow its unique path within it; that is, we all have a unique arrangement from accessing this witness, we all have a unique pattern of existence, and thus the way such growth transpires is unique to the individual, however it is the same underlying principles that can create infinite variations that are capable of fitting in harmony with the whole--

Thus, one experiences a death of the old self (old identity) and a resurrection of the new self (new identity); which is ultimately just a transmutation of one order of identity to another order of identity-- And this allows one to see the subtle layers of effect at each degree of separation (energy)--

Hi firstandlast,

This is interesting. What say you about:

Even if there is no (seeming) active thought, there is still the way one operates, (then) thinks, chooses, acts etc. so where is this being governed? How is this chosen/transmuted/changed?

Is this what you mean to a degree? Further elaboration is appreciated!

floats

[Floatsy]

It is a truly beautiful process.


I agree that it is very nice.

[firstandlast]

Hi firstandlast,

This is interesting. What say you about:

Even if there is no (seeming) active thought, there is still the way one operates, (then) thinks, chooses, acts etc. so where is this being governed? How is this chosen/transmuted/changed?

Is this what you mean to a degree? Further elaboration is appreciated!

floats

Yes, I believe you get what I mean--

The things that is governing is the same thing as governing all; you-- You are always being governed by you, the material world; is simply an expression so that we can understand our spirit within form and experience it as form-- So, whether you are a slave with a master; being dictated by laws of a government or a moral dictation-- You are governing yourself... However, because of the order of spirit is not recognized in the order of material (though they are one in the same), the quality of experience is lower-- What do I mean by lower quality experience?

This can be likened to the difference of the resolution between 480i television (old standard form) to 4k progressive (our latest standard of resolution)-- What does this mean? More pixels, more clarity in the image we experience.. more understanding of what is going on--

However, why would I talk about reconciliation of opposites, and not the axis mundi in my original statements? Because though we can make things clearer, clarity at any angle is infinite-- That is to say, if you do not break down what you are seeing on television (the plot, the characters, the objects, the dynamics, the colors) to their basic material (pixels).. The axis mundi will be forced to reorder things in a more clunky way; that is you will just see the same story play out with different arrangements of plots, characters, objects, and dynamics as well as colors-- Look at movies and how many of them are so similar.. How we can make the same basic plot look vastly different-- How many love stories are out there?

It can also be likened to a puzzle, where the picture on the box is the self; and by arranging these big clunky puzzle pieces, never being able to reach the image on the box.. unless you shatter these pieces to their most basic form to be arranged anyway one desires.. and only the highest desire can be the picture on the box, and the only way to put it together to match it in such a way is to destroy everything so that you can take the same material and rearrange it to look like it is on the box-- (I should mention destruction and creation are the same thing, so transmutation is probably a better word)

This is why, when I say you are being governed by self; that people who seem highly spiritual are still thinking there is this holy war or dark vs light; self against other; because they have not broken down the material at hand to their most basic element (self)--

So even if one access the axis mundi; without breaking the picture into pixels, you are only reaching a higher 4k resolution of the same things you saw going on at 480i in its different arrangements-- Of course, this metaphor has it's limitations in what I am expressing; but it might help in understanding why so many people have different ideas of what is going on in the universe even when they seem so advanced in spiritual matters--

[Floatsy]

Love it, firstandlast :D

Thanks for that, it's cool.

OK So what do you think about: about actively governing oneself? Actively choosing decisions, lifestyles, styles...

So you are talking of the supramundane - I really like the pixel analogy by the way haha

And yes I concur about the movies/I always thought that life seemed like different movie (play), different costumes, characters but same elements at work manifesting different possibilities.

Anyway for where I am I am interested in breaking it right down to pixels and I love this idea of the picture on the box as the highest vision which is possible at this level - but also actively choosing and manifesting in life

Have any thoughts about this topic? :smile:

Thanks, firstandlast

[firstandlast]

Love it, firstandlast :D

Thanks for that, it's cool.

OK So what do you think about: about actively governing oneself? Actively choosing decisions, lifestyles, styles...

So you are talking of the supramundane - I really like the pixel analogy by the way haha

And yes I concur about the movies/I always thought that life seemed like different movie (play), different costumes, characters but same elements at work manifesting different possibilities.

Anyway for where I am I am interested in breaking it right down to pixels and I love this idea of the picture on the box as the highest vision which is possible at this level - but also actively choosing and manifesting in life

Have any thoughts about this topic? :smile:

Thanks, firstandlast

Those questions are complicated to answer; because in manifestation to appear as individuals we must exist in such a level of complexity-- In simple terms, yes we can come to terms that we are governing ourselves and in a fashion recognize this as our own expression; and this will happen--

however, how it will appear here? will be much different then one would suspect-- Part of the benefit of this world, that at this point we do not see as a benefit, is that we are ignorant of all we are doing; that is, we get to experience surprise and adventure.. This, as things get better and more in shape, will be a much better experience; and you might find yourself not desiring to be so aware of how much you govern-- That is, to truly enjoy what life has to offer... you must accept and respect the individual identities that exist within it-- Does this limit you? yes and no.. In ways it limits who you are, but in other ways it does not limit that expression of self--

To talk about what is coming is complicated, and has taken me years of direct training in the area; and I only know the skeleton of that which is to occur, only enough to do what is necessary while still enjoying the ride to its highest heights-- That is, though I am on my way to experiencing what you are discussing (as well as many others), I will embrace my ignorance; and even if I should know such total control, I will come back in a way that I am ignorant of what I am doing for myself; so that I might enjoy life and what is has to offer-- However, because we do represent unique aspects of existence, how we come to recognize such things will be slightly unique.. approached at a certain angle designated for us-- That is, our highest bliss is unique and fits in with the whole--

[Floatsy]

Makes sense, firstandlast.. Thanks for your contributions here :smile: Appreciated!
floatsy